AP wasn´t created

[Iñaki]

Hi! The day before yesterday I tried to make a little bit of AP. I mixed the components and put them in the fridge (I used pure acetone 3% H2O2 and H2SO4 in water, more or less 7 parts H2O2, 2 parts acetone and 1 of sulfuric). The reaction started to go, for the first half an hour, the AP seem to appear, but after an hour, the little crystals of AP formed disappeared an no more AP was created. May the Ap be dissolved in the acetone? Or the reaction can be "fucked"? (sorry for the expresion). I´ve made AP a few times more but only the last two ones not only a gram of AP were created. Thanks a lot

[RTC]

How long did you leave it for? With such a low conc of h²o², it will take much more than 24hours.

[kingspaz]

yer, should be left for about 3-4 days with 3%. also you say you used sulphuric with water. what concentration was it? if it was too low the reaction will not be catalysed effectively.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

If one decides to use 3% H2O2 instead of 30% H2O2, they will have to use ten times as much H2SO4 if they are to achieve similar reaction rates.

[Iñaki]

it was 98% sulfuric acid, but i mix it in two parts of water and let it cool in the fridge, because if I mix it with the acetone H2O2 in that percentage, the reaction produces too much hot and I thought it could broke the reaction. The rarest of the case is that a time ago I used the same components in the same percentages and AP started to form inmediately and the reaction finished in a period of 3 days (as all of you have said) but now, nor a little bit can be seen. Perhaps i should try using 25% hidrocloric acid? Thanks again

[NoltaiR]

He is correct about using ten times as much H2O2.. but what also happens when you have 3%, is that all that extra water also lowers the concentration of your H2SO4 when added so you will need more. Also it usually takes 10-12 hours for my AP to form and I use a 10:15:1 of boiled H2O2:acetone:94% H2SO4. So by using only 3%, it will probably also take 10 times as long for the reaction to occur.

The simplest way is just to boil it and save some time.. its not worth it to wait.

[DBSP]

The right ratio is supposed to be: pure H2O2:acetone:acid-1:6:about10% of the total ammount schould be acid. But when using very large ammounts you should have more than 10% acids, perhaps 20-25% when using 3% H2O2 and a bit extra acetone. Making AP with 3% is hard because of the shity yields. Try locationg something stronger.
Inaki: what's the conc of your H2SO4?

[Iñaki]

it was 98% (brown dark colour), but i mixed in the same proportion withwater and cool it, and then mix with the H2O2 with acetone, now at a lower percentage so the acid didn´t hot the solution. If not, the nearly pure acid mixed with the solution may reach fifty degrees easily. Hey, if using HCl in 25%, should I use a bigger proportion?thanks everyone

[DBSP]

I use 30% HCl when making AP. I have a standard recipe I use: 200ml 35% H2O2 300ml acetone and 10% acid(30% HCl).
from this I get 130g AP in 5 hours and then it's a solid mass. I you use 25% HCl when making AP with 3% H2O2 I'd use about 15-20% acid.

[Anthony]

The odd thing here is not a lack of precipitate, but that a preciptate is forming and disappearing.

I'm not sure why, but your ratio of H2O2:acetone ratio is 2.1:20 so possibly the AP is dissolving in the excess acetone? Allowing the mix to evapourate may make the AP recrystalise back out of solution.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">So by using only 3%, it will probably also take 10 times as long for the reaction to occur.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">As I already said, the reaction rate when using 3% H2O2 can be kept about the same as when using 30% H2O2 if you use ten times as much sulfuric acid.

[Iñaki]

Well! thanks everyone, a few days ago i added more acid and wait two or three days more, so now there is a white precipitate (no much yield ´cause it´s only 3% but the most important is that it is there). Next time i´ll try with HCl :-)

[NoltaiR]

Why not just spend a few hours boiling down a good amount of H2O2 to 1/10-1/13 of its original volume and you won't have to wait 2 or 3 days until your precipitate is done. (Especially if you are boiling it in a glass bowl at night when you just have some dim halogen lights on.. then once you are down to 1/10 the volume, pour it back in the original container--uncapped--and leave it to cool down for the rest of the night)

[PYRO500]

That won't work.

[NoltaiR]

What do you mean it won't work??? I do it all the time with very satisfying results. I mean you can't expect to get 30% that way.. but if you can pull at least 18-20% (you estimate about how pure it is by pouring it from one container into another.. the H2O2 will start to foam a bit depending on how pure it is) then you will make it a lot farther than 3%.

[PYRO500]

if you get the water hot enough to boil the peroxide is probably decomposing too, if you got any increase in % it was very small and you probably got a terrible yeild from the evaporating procedure, if you want to risk your life (literally) trying to distill H2O2 then read this page: <a href="http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp/Reports/Stills_199x.html" target="_blank">http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp/Reports/Stills_199x.html</a>

[marky]

This may not be the right place to ask but can AP disovle in water?

thanks

[Eliteforum]

ERM.. People STORE it in water, so I'd think not. And before you get banned, i'd just like to point out that your sig is wrong, it should be:

"Fuck shootin im just tryin 2 knock his teeth out Fuck with me now bitch, lets see you freestyle!"

[marky]

sorry but i dident know who to ask i know people store it in water
but i thought they might just let it evaporate and they have there
AP again? :confused:

[Anthony]

Everything is usually at least a little soluble in most things, if AP is soluble in water, it's not enough to worry about.

[FarbrorBosse]

Iñaki wrote: Hi! The day before yesterday I tried to make a little bit of AP.
I used pure acetone 3% H2O2 and H2SO4 in water,
"more or less" 7 parts H2O2, 2 parts acetone and 1 of sulfuric.
Then there was about 7 lines of not needed info to help and a 3 line quote.

Answer:
7 parts? How about adding a little more info into the post?
Things like "gram, ml cm^3 and such are appreciated and not
that hard to figure even if you go in 6:th grade.

All you need is this little plastic or metal container made for baking.
This little cooking artifact contain 1.0dl(100ml) when full normally
or 0.5dl(50ml) if your mother has the smaller version.

If you want to transfer ml to gram, just multiply by the density of the
mixture you got, since density is g/cm^3 heureka!.

Ok now to make any calculation I need to make an assumption, and that means guessing. I guess you used your fathers sperrin crystal cognac glass orderd from Czec republic to make your batch, and a bowl.

You used 7 glass of 3% H2O2 and 2 glass of 100% acetone and 1 glass of H2SO4.
1 glass contain exactly 125 ml.

So you used a paper and a pencil and recalculated some to get the right values.
7 glass of 3%H2O2 * 125 ml = 875ml 3% H2O2.
2 glass of 100%acetone * 125ml = 250ml 100% acetone.
1/3 glass of 98% H2SO4 ==&gt; 125/3= 41.6666666 ~= 42 ml 98% H2SO4.

Summary: 875ml 3% H2O2 + 250ml 100% C3H6O ==&gt; X g C6H18O3 + Y g H2O.

875ml 3% H2O2 will react with 84 ml 100% C3H6O creating ~80gram ATCP and ~19.5g water.
And you will also have 166ml unreacted acetone able to solve about 83ml ATCP.

Your H2SO4 conc will be pretty low to, taking it that you first added 2 times water, then about 5 times more water from the H2O2 bottle.

See why you get nothing from it? Hint: 166ml acetone will solve about 83ml ATCP.

[marky]

Remember not to use AP and metal containers the AP will corrode ...

Bye

[kingspaz]

marky i believe you are wrong. AP does not corrode metal containers. HMTD however does corrode them. if there is any doubt in your mind as to whether you are right or not indicate that in your post so as not to provide false information.

[xtreme]

If I detonate AP not within a few hours....I allways insulate AP (all explosives in my case) from metals.....just to be sure (remaining acids in AP....what ever)
I let AP NEVER touch cupper/brass because they are so sensitive for a lot of chemicals (even your sweat from your hands what contains acids too) And cupper reacts pretty fast with acids.

So....if you not 100% sure.....insulate explosives from metals.
It's isn't much work and it give's me a better feeling for storing explosives over longer time (blasting caps).

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: xtreme ]</small>

[ALENGOSVIG1]

If you properly washed the explosive and its not incompatible with metals by nature, (picric acid for example) then contact with metal isnt a problem.

[FarbrorBosse]

If made right AP is not that sensitive... It is very sensitive compared to ANFO or RDX for sure! but if you compare to what you get when dealing with iodine.. well then AP is damn reliable.

When some of you guys talk about AP it pretty much reminds me of when some of my bigger friends(when I was alot younger) showed me how to make explosive. They used iodine crystals, crushed them to a powder and let it react with ammonia until the iodine was all black, then let it dry overnight. The next morning there was a broken bottle on the table and it was all colored in pink. Now that is an explosive
that has some unreliable properties.
[edit]:spelling

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: FarbrorBosse ]</small>

[marky]

Yes but would you really wont to store AP in a metal container consitering if it went off??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> :confused: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[xoo1246]

Since AP doesn't react with metals when stored properly it could be done. Fragmentation from a metal container is another chapter.
Last I checked AP wasn't suitable to store anyway.