DIY Chemical Treatment

[MrSamosa]

When Aum Shinrikyo bungled their Sarin attack at Matsumoto, at least one of their operatives was exposed to liquid Sarin. He did not die, however; instead, he simply took a few pills to treat his poisoning. According to other reports, all the operatives took the pills ahead of time in the event there was an accident.

This got me thinking: we, here at E&W, have devoted a lot of our time to finding new and impressive poisons, or at least making them over the counter and readily available. But what have we done to make the treatments over the counter? Well, we don't have to go too far with it, because with a bit of searching, you'd be surprised with what you can do with OTC Pharmaceuticals. From what I understand, the fear of poisoning is what keeps many of us away from doing actual experimenting in "Battlefield Chemistry."

So let me take one of the first steps, and find a possible OTC treatment for Nerve Agent poisoning. Antihistamines. Surely you've heard of kiddies taking 24 Benadryls for the supposed "trip," usually ending up with an 8 hour nightmare or a trip to the hospital. As it turns out, OTC antihistamines such as Diphenhydramine, Dimenhydrinate, etc. have anti-cholinergic effects in higher doses.

A few days ago, since I get allergies this time of year, I was taking a Benadryl out of its wrapping, but it broke. As you know, you should never eat broken tablets...but I did anyway, since I didn't want to waste it. When the powder touched my throat, it instantly made it difficult to swallow--like something was clogging my throat.

Of interest, Diphenhydramine is soluble in water when the pH < 7 . So, for the OTC experimenter, maybe several Benadryl tablets could be ground up, dissolved into Lemon Juice, and drank to counteract Cholinesterase inhibition? This would dramatically decrease its time to act, and might be useful...

And as we know, tremors and twitching can be mitigated with Benzodiazepines, particularly Valium. Not really OTC, but not too hard to get either...

The other day, while browsing the Pharmacy, in the Cold/Fever section I came across a bottle of something-or-other for people with Asthma. It was an inhaler containing a mixture of Ephedrine (I think 20 mg?) with Guaifenesin (600 mg). As you know, this dilates your respiratory system to facilitate breathing; it's a stimulant. This could be useful in treating "Chemical Pneumonia," as caused by Phosgene, Chlorine, NO2, etc.

Any more ideas?

[nbk2000]

"Primatene Mist" is an OTC asthema inhaler spray that is composed of epinephrine (Adrenaline). I know that epinephrine is used to treat people in anaphylactic shock, after envenomation by insects or toxic sea critters. Might be useful.

Also, valium is a chemically altered derivative of valerian root, which is an OTC herbal supplement (which I use). Perhaps it'd be possible to synth valium using the extract, or just use major amounts of the extract as-is, for the anti-seizure?

I have clippings that state that cannibinols are more effective at seizure control after OPA intoxication than any of the diazepam series, but it's not in the military treatments because of the political connection with marijuana. :rolleyes: I think MJ is probably far more OTC than anything. :p

[MrSamosa]

I can see it now: soldiers smoking joints under the excuse of "Chemical Defense." Surely we can add just a bit of professionalism to it, though. THC extraction methods are easy to find online and just about every high school pothead knows how to do it. This extract could be put in a gel-capsule and included in a chemical kit. Personally, I'm not familiar with cannibinols; by the plural, are you saying that there are several, possibly more potent variants of THC?

Alternately, Deadly Nightshade grows in some areas and actually contains Atropine. Perhaps nerve agent operators could carry a few "magic mushrooms" just in case--no extraction even needed. Of course, Atropine tablets would be ideal, and homemade injectors even better. But it seems a lot easier to swallow a tablet than to inject a vein when your hands are shaking.

[c0deblue]

The problem with most antidotes is that taking them doesn't simply cancel out the effect of the poisoning. Many so-called antidotes are stopgap measures intended simply to sustain life until the poisoning victim can be removed to facilities equipped to deal with the crisis. Many antidotes are themselves toxic, requiring their own countermeasures as well as careful monitoring to guard against sudden and catastrophic failures unrelated to the original poisoning.

A case in point is cyanide poisoning. Initial intervention may involve amyl nitrate and/or oxygen just to keep the patient alive, but in all but the mildest cases this is likely to be followed at the hospital by intubation, IVs of sodium thiosulphate, sodium nitrite, or a smorgasbord of other drugs based on EKG and bloodwork. These treatments are pretty dangerous in themselves, and can cause a host of other serious effects including organ failure. It's standard practice NOT to administer these sorts of treatments unless tests show they can't be avoided, and then only under careful observation as part of a comprehensive treatment package that in bad cases may include hemodialysis and life support.

Another example is exposure to nerve agents. The atropine and pralidoxime syrettes issued to troops are a stopgap lifesaver that allows time for (immediate) evacuation and treatment - but that's about all. The first rule in these cases is to disarm and restrain the patient so he's not a danger to himself or his comrades - he's still a very sick puppy and may be unconscious, delirious, or in convulsions. Recovery following intensive treatment can take many weeks.

The point of all this is to emphasize, as in all dangerous pursuits, that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and that "antidotes" are not magic bullets - even in professional hands there are still no end of pitfalls. Compiling knowledge is fine, but there's a danger that assembling an array of antidotes - OTC or otherwise - could provide many experimenters with a false sense of security; I'd have to know a heck of a lot more about medicine than I do before entrusting my life to self-treatment with DIY alternatives. Even if one had the requisite knowledge, drugs and equipment, the chances of being able to use it effectively are pretty slim if one is unconscious or convulsing uncontrollably - one might be perfectly competent to perform an appendectomy, but that doesn't mean one should attempt to perform his own.

The best one can do is to know beforehand the specific poisoning risks of the substances being worked with, take ALL appropriate precautions - no shortcuts - and have a strategy for dealing with worst case scenarios. At a minimum this should include **emergency** countermeasures for the substance in question, and a phone to dial 911. (In this circumstance, a plausible excuse for all the nasty substances in your lab - and a good lawyer - probably wouldn't hurt either.)

[nbk2000]

Prevention beats cure, every time. :)

[MrSamosa]

Prevention beats cure, every time.

Ahh, no doubt. What I am aiming at here is a sort of "Plan B." The less trips to the hospital the amateur has to make, the better; and if it's possible to bypass hospital visits for mild exposure with the help of improvised treatments, wonderful. If you've been knocked unconscious in a contaminated environment though, I doubt Benadryl or Cannabis will save you.

What I am looking for are quick "band-aid" fixes. What I hear time and time again is that the best right-away treatment for chemical exposure is Oxygen, and in its absence, fresh air. If stimulants can keep you from visiting the hospital (and going through the legal trouble) after a mishap with, say, Chloropicrin, that is what I'm aiming for.

But if I may digress a bit on the note of Oxime treatment for Nerve Agents. Apparently, Oximes can react with Nerve Agent molecules to form a "super-agent" which is much more potent and resistant to treatment....this appears to be the basic principle upon which Novichok agents work, what with their Dihaloformaldoxime group.

[Chris The Great]

I can see myself thrashing and convulsing on my lawn, tearing at a gasmask while screaming "the mask! it does nothing!" while in the background I'm distilling nerve agents. Not a pretty picture :p

I suppose one possibility is ordering those "terrorist attack" fully sealed suits some companies sell to the public. I've seen some for a few hundred $ that are rated for several hundred hour exposures in completely contaiminated enviroments full of nerve gas. Bulky, but I'd rather be in that and have to hose myself off afterwards than risk getting exposed to whatever chemical is being made. I'd certainly trust it more than a homemade atropine injector.

[zeocrash]

Not really OTC, but legal all the same, various "legal highs" are Anticholinergenic, in particular is datura and of course belladonna.
I did not know that cannabis was effective for controlling OPA seizures. Ah well i know where i'll be when we all get gassed :)

[Skean Dhu]

If your really going to get hardcore in your nerve agent synthesises (synthesii?), wouldn't it be prudent to invest in a glove box?

[Chris The Great]

VX would only need a hood, from what I've read, which I'm assuming would apply to all V agents as they all have similar properties (in this case extremely slow evaporation rate).

G agents would definatly require alot more care, a glove box (a very large glove box, with all the equipment already inside, etc) would definatly be an investment. You could probably make it easily as well, after all a glass box isn't that hard to seal, and hook up a pump to drop the pressure inside to keep it from leaking at all during use (of course, the pump would be turned off during use!).

[megalomania]

A hood for VX he says :D Oh my you make me laugh. That's like saying you only need vitamins to keep you from getting AIDS when you have sex...

Would you trust your life to an errant wind gust that may reverse your air flow? Have you considered that VX is not just an inhallation hazard? Its volitility may be low, but its lethality is much higher than G agents. Nothing less than a glove box should be used for all chemical weapons.

[MrSamosa]

If the agent is not a threat by means other than inhalation, I've found from personal experience that if you're good at holding your breath, that's almost all you need :)

[Chris The Great]

Gad to be of comical value :p
I'm only repeating the safety info I've found on laboratory handling of the stuff. Fume hood, butyl rubber gloves and a face shield is all I've seen recommended in MSDS info.

But your are correct in that a glove box would offer a good protection against murphy's law, and that it would definately be a good investment if you ever actually made VX and an essential investment for G agents.


Of course, none of us would ever have to apply this in real life ;)

[nbk2000]

Here's the (short) blurb about the cannibindiol being a useful treatment.

This one doesn't specifically say so, but since anoxia is one of the more serious effects of OPA and cyanide poisoning, this would be useful for preventing permanent brain damage.

There are other articles mentioned in High Times about the usefulness of cannibinols for CW treatment.

[nbk2000]

This is a picture of the minimum protection you should use when working with any highly toxic chemical.

A supplied air hood, with full body saranex coated tyvek suit, with the work in a fume hood.

[Child-of-Bodom]

Quote @ NBK:Also, valium is a chemically altered derivative of valerian root, which is an OTC herbal supplement (which I use). Perhaps it'd be possible to synth valium using the extract, or just use major amounts of the extract as-is, for the anti-seizure?

This is an urban myth, and incorrect. Valium and Valerian does have nothing to do which each other, only their names are a bit the same.
Valium is a synthesed diazepam, while valerian root extract contains a lot of differend sedative and tranquilising compound, where the valepotriates and valerenic acid are the most effective compounds. See HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(plant))
Valerenic acid inhibits the breadown of GABA in the brain, and is therefore associated with seditation and and decrease of central nerves system activity.
Valium is only availeble on prescription, is addictive, and you have to take more and more, while valerian is relative safe.

These compounds are easily obtained at home by a simple soxhlet destillation, use ethanol to get the compounds. Valerian will grow very well in your garden, as in your room. Although it is IMHO not worth it to do something like this at home, as capsules, tablets, tinctures, dried roots etc etc, are bought OTC for next to nothing. I reccomend agianst the making of tea from valerian, as the smell is horrible, I don't like it...
It is not very toxic, there is a report of someone who ate the equivalent of 25 grams of roots, and only suffered from a headache and some sleepness... He was up and running, suffering no effect 24h later. (But - still be carefull please)

If more info is appreciated, let me know, I'm currently working on it...