When the Crackdown Comes

[megalomania]

Many freedom loving citizens fear a day will come when the United States government will impose draconian controls upon its citizens in order to maintain some sort of Big Brother regime. There will likely be no single day in which this happens, but rather a death by a thousand cuts in which our freedoms will be eroded one by one. New legislature like the Patriot Act and impending criminalization of copyright infringement mandating jail time are steps in the direction of the day of the rope.

I have been reading the news accounts of the Iraq war, now pushed back to page 3 or later, with waning interest as there is an article almost every day now about a handful of American deaths at the hands of the insurgents.

This has prompted me to start thinking what if the day of the rope does come in America? The US military is doing such a bad job over there, would we as freedom fighters not fare better? I now see where the insurgents are actually destroying Bradley Fighting Vehicles. I remember a thread a few years ago where we discussed the merits of destroying a tank with improvised explosives. If I remember correctly the general consensus was that this could not be done effectively. Now it seems we have battlefield accounts of roadside bombs actually destroying tanks.

A tank in an urban setting seems quite out of place. The BFV’s use heat scanners to detect the presence of enemy troops, have over powered guns meant to suppress enemy tanks, and are slow. A roadside bomb does not require the presence of an enemy soldier nearby, just a guy with a pair of binoculars and a remote detonator. The big gun is going to be severely limited in an urban setting where it is little more than a battering ram. Their crawling speed down civilian streets means plenty of time to direct a weapon.

For anything with less armor than a tank, and that is everything else, they can be readily destroyed. This has proved to be the biggest downfall with our Humvees. The miscellaneous trucks and armored vehicles simply do not have the armor to repel the kinds of attacks they are coming up against.

The greatest advantage the US military has is its tremendous air power. However, this is an extremely expensive way of defeating an enemy. The use of million dollar cruise missiles to take out an enemy on horseback during the Afghanistan war springs to mind. How many cruise missiles can the US military lob before they run out?

If even one of those insurgents use so much as a poison gas grenade against American troops this will send every GI running for his chemical protective gear every time the wind blows. Such gear will add more weight and encumbrance to an already overworked soldier.

When the day of the rope comes, we loyal freedom fighters will have hope that our oppressive enemy is not invincible. Their tanks can be destroyed, their soldiers can be killed or wounded (just as good), and their air power is not infinite. So long as one freeman has the will to keep his guns after the confiscation laws are enacted and the neo-gestapo searches are underway, we can be victorious. Start gathering your guns and books now my friends, the best time to prepare for disaster is before it happens.

[knowledgehungry]

That is one of the reasons I like this website so much, it gives information that will be useful if one day the shit hits the fan and we have to fight for our freedom. The US government as it is now is in no way shape or form stopping me from living how I have the right to live, but if history repeats itself(and it does) knowledge will one day be the only defense. Hopefully not in my lifetime but one never knows.

[Silentnite]

And the point is, how many of those troops would actually stay employed in the US armed forces? Surely most would defect if they saw what was happening especially before firing on their friends and family. Of course the sheeples would roll over and ask for their belly to be rubbed, a very vast majority of America would rise up. Or if not *Vast*, enough to be more than effective.

I keep seeing vids (and I know a few guys over there) about how many of the troops hate bush and dont think we should be over in Iraq. Something like that happening here and well... more people to rise up.

[knowledgehungry]

That's one of the good things about our armed forces, most of them truly believe that they are fighting for freedom and that's why they do what they do. They sign up because they are patriotic and want to defend our bill of rights. Cops are the real threat, A.C.A.B. All Cops Are Bastards.

[nbk2000]

http://strategypage.com/iraqlessonslearned/iraqwarlessonslearned.asp

Good to know your enemies vulnerabilities. ;)

The JBT's know that the surest way to suppress internal resistance is to erode the will of the people to resist.

Start with mindless mass-media entertainment that teaches that a rigid morale code is 'old-fashioned' and that all gun ownership is evil, and what the schoolteacher says is always true, and the DARE cop is your friend, and the government is here to help you, and all the rest of the crap they teach and broadcast.

Behold the face of the TRUE enemy!

http://www.post-atomic.com/images/IMAG0000.jpg

When you've reduced the majority of the population to the state of morons, then the war is already 99% over. :(

The 1% that resist will be whittled away by the informers amoung them who'll sell their mothers for money, and the government has plenty of paper cash to throw around, after all it's only paper, and how much of it do they print up everyday?

Dilute the likely pool of military serviceman who'd resist by importing your soldiers by making military service a sure way of getting US citizenship. If you've got 500,000 beaners and muds in the armed forces, what do they care if they get orders to kill white americans who're resisting the government? More room for them, right?

(PS: It's 'Night of the Rope' and is a race war term)

[akinrog]

It's always so; fascistic governments sooner or later turns on their own citizens. As Voltaire says "History does not repeat itself but man does."

Fascistic governments first pumps some sort of pride (sometimes of racial nature, sometimes religious etc.) and invent a demon to increase patriotic feelings amongst the nation and when they deem their foreign operations are ended then they start robbing their citizen's rights.

[aikon]

Start with mindless mass-media entertainment that teaches that a rigid morale code is 'old-fashioned' and that all gun ownership is evil, and what the schoolteacher says is always true, and the DARE cop is your friend, and the government is here to help you, and all the rest of the crap they teach and broadcast.

There's only one thing you can do about it: Throw the TV out of the window! Whenever you turn on the TV you're confronted with a "plastic world", they lie to you. All what they want is to keep you in front of the screen, because if you're glued on your chair and live the life of Brad Pitt or another asshole you don't have time to develop your own dreams. The government want docile people and the TV is their primary weapon to accomplish the mission. They want you to believe in all that CNN, MTV, FOX etc shit. Have your own dreams, because if don't have your own dreams you're sentenced to live their dreams.
Sooner or later the crackdown will come, but thanks to that website I know that there are still people out there who have their own thoughts. Collect and share inforamtion get a good education and prepare for the worst.

[TreverSlyFox]

It's one thing to have guns and ammo, and even a few ingrediants for energetic materials. In the U.S. you can buy an SKS for $150 and 1000 rounds of FMJ 7.62x39 ammo for as little as $65. So the guns and ammo part arn't a problem here. Want an "off the books" rifle? Not a problem, The sportsmans guide has 8mm small ring Mausers that are antiques from Turkey that require NO PAPERWORK for $300 and shipped right to your door and Turk 8mm ammo is cheap and sure fire.

BUT, and there is always a but, do you know how to use them? Do you know what Small Unit Infantry Tactics are? Do you know what OPSEC and COMSEC mean? If you can't kill the Tank, do you know when and where the best place is to kill the crew? Can you read a TOPO map and use a compass for Land Navigation? Do you really "KNOW" your AO (Area of Opporation), it's "choke points", advantages and disadvantages, likely avenues of approach?

Where is you Counties, or Cities "Emergency Management Center", it's backup fuel and electrical systems, where are the cop cars parked and their fuel supply? Where are your areas "Main" water supply, electric feed grid, phone offices and cell towers, bridges that "Must" be crossed?

If it comes to a "fight" your not going to be up against a bunch of "idiots" with guns. They'er well trained, well equiped, and they get paid to Kill You! If you think for a minute that you'll just pick up a gun and fight, you'll get your ass handed to you in about 30 seconds. Find out what you need to know NOW, trainning to use what you have is needed NOW! Otherwise your just gona be a dead piece of meat in a body bag.

If you don't know where to find the info you'll need, and it's OK with Mega, I'll post the web site addresses you can start with.

Mega, just let me know if it's OK to post the site addys.

[Valinomycin]

I think the problem is not fighting against the government but living long enough to do so. The main instrument of fascistic regimes or dictators was always a kind of secret police. Look at Nazi-germany, when people recognized where Hitler was going to lead the country it was already too late. Many people wanted to resist but they were afraid of the GeStaPo and the SS. These "institutions" already knew the enemies of the regime, selected them and made them "disappear". So the major task in defending yourself is staying inconspicuously. Even if you're getting informations from the internet this could get you on a "list" (remember ECHELON).

[nbk2000]

If it's a website, go for it, as that's the purpose behind the web, right? To share information? ;)

[megalomania]

Day of the rope, night of the rope, the meaning is the same...

http://stonegarden.brinkster.net/rollerboys/rb4_sm.jpg

[TreverSlyFox]

The first three sites are proabley the best Militia, Survival/Preparedness sites on the web. If you want to survive and/or fight these are the places to start. NONE of the sites will discuss explosives except in the most general terms. Thank Tim McVeigh for that as the aftermath of OKC hit the Militia very hard, even though McVeigh was NOT a Militia Member. These are verring Christian sites. If your not Christian just skip those sections. Flaming Christians here will get you booted real fast.

www.awrm.org A Well Regulated Militia. Militia site through and through. The NMS download link at the top of the forum page is for the National Militia Training Standards. Good Tactical, Gear, Weapons and Communications info here.

www.assaultweb.net Mostly Militia site, good info also.

www.frugalsquirrels.com Mostly Survival and Preparedness site, Some Patriot/Militia.


The following site is the "TOP" Sniper site on the web. These guys are the "real Deal". Mostly current and former Military, LEO and the Top Civilian Tactial Shooters. Excellent weapon and gear site if you want to "reach out and touch someone". These guys are the real "One Shot, One Kill" people. Some of the posters are Current snipers in Iraq RFN. You'll run into Navy SEALS, Army Rangers & Green Beanies, Marine Force Recon and even some British SAS here. These people don't take kindly to K3WLS or even the hint of subversives. Though some are supportive of the Militia.

www.snipercountry.com

The info at the above sites could very well keep you alive, use it as you see fit.

[Valinomycin]

Wanted to ask that since some time and I think it fits here quite good:
Is anyone of you owning a selfmade ghillie suit ?

some other good sites about sniping are:

www.snipersparadise.de
www.ghilliesuits.com

[Kr36]

There's only one thing you can do about it: Throw the TV out of the window! Whenever you turn on the TV you're confronted with a "plastic world", they lie to you. All what they want is to keep you in front of the screen, because if you're glued on your chair and live the life of Brad Pitt or another asshole you don't have time to develop your own dreams. The government wants docile people and the TV is their primary weapon to accomplish the mission.

That's Diocleatian's "bread and circuses" trick, it was probably one of largest factors in the fall of the Romans. I wouldn't toss the tube just yet though, it won't do much but piss off the neighbors, and you might as well be entertained while waiting for everyone else to wake up to what's really going on. No one else will notice untill the entertainment industry uses up all it's resources and ideas(they're getting close, judging from all the unwatchable crap on tv(reality shows, various sitcoms, spongebob, CNN )]. There's no point in saying anything to the masses right now, they don't want to beleive in conspiricies or that maybe the president is fallable(many christian republicans I've spoken to seem to have confused Bush with God) and a lot of Americans are gung-ho jingoists and we should all know how hard it is to talk to them with out them screaming nonsencical propaganda at us. It'll be a while before America wakes up.

[pangos_59]

One of my favorite freedom sites is:www.jackblood.com (http://www.jackblood.com) It may just open your eyes:www.disinfo.com (http://www.disinfo.com)

[Jacks Complete]

The crackdown is in place. The UK just passed yet another Draconian anti-terror law, and all the two main parties seem to want to argue about is who can take away more freedoms in the run up to the elections.

We have had:
The Terrorism Act 2000 (TACT)
The Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001
Identity Cards Bill 2004
The anti-terror bill 2005 (hammered through in 2 days, and so fast no-one even seems to know the full name!)
A promised Anti-terror bill for 2006!

Combined with the Criminal Justice Act, the various police powers acts, the "reforms" to the House of Lords, the massively increased powers given to the Cabinet under so-called "emergency powers", and what have we left?

House arrest, no right to silence, deportation without due process, secret courts, tagging, orders for the banning of lawful protests, people and organisations, no Habeus Corpus, the massively reduced requirements for Means Rae, compulsory ID cards, no right to see the evidence or charges or even allegations...

Withholding access to a lawyer, using evidence that was obtained under torture, Stop & Search, the list goes on & on. Freedom of speech curtailments, heavy restrictions on lawful demonstration, as well as a massive reduction in what can be considered lawful when demonstrating, even banning centuries old things like fox hunting by forcing it through the second house using the parliament act... If I searched I could easily find more.

Yet fear is up, crime is up, cost of living is up! 800+ years of freedom, stolen away, and not by any terrorist.

The crackdown is here, and it's name is Democracy. It's name is New Labor Statist Authoritarianism. It is Tony Bliar and his abuses of power. His removal of the safety catches on this legal and political system of ours. His constant ruthless streak makes him get his own way, and if he cannot? He just forces the rules changed so next time, he can do as he pleases even more quickly and without thought.

A lawful dictatorship is a mere word away from the Home Secretary's lips.
And that is <b>wrong</b>.

[Jacks Complete]

The crackdown is in place. The UK just passed yet another Draconian anti-terror law, and all the two main parties seem to want to argue about is who can take away more freedoms in the run up to the elections.

We have had:
The Terrorism Act 2000 (TACT)
The Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001
Identity Cards Bill 2004
The anti-terror bill 2005 (hammered through in 2 days, and so fast no-one even seems to know the full name!)
A promised Anti-terror bill for 2006!

Combined with the Criminal Justice Act, the various police powers acts, the "reforms" to the House of Lords, the massively increased powers given to the Cabinet under so-called "emergency powers", and what have we left?

House arrest, no right to silence, deportation without due process, secret courts, tagging, orders for the banning of lawful protests, people and organisations, no Habeus Corpus, the massively reduced requirements for Means Rae, compulsory ID cards, no right to see the evidence or charges or even allegations...

Withholding access to a lawyer, using evidence that was obtained under torture, Stop & Search, the list goes on & on. Freedom of speech curtailments, heavy restrictions on lawful demonstration, as well as a massive reduction in what can be considered lawful when demonstrating, even banning centuries old things like fox hunting by forcing it through the second house using the parliament act... If I searched I could easily find more.

Yet fear is up, crime is up, cost of living is up! 800+ years of freedom, stolen away, and not by any terrorist.

The crackdown is here, and it's name is Democracy. It's name is New Labor Statist Authoritarianism. It is Tony Bliar and his abuses of power. His removal of the safety catches on this legal and political system of ours. His constant ruthless streak makes him get his own way, and if he cannot? He just forces the rules changed so next time, he can do as he pleases even more quickly and without thought.

A lawful dictatorship is a mere word away from the Home Secretary's lips.
And that is <b>wrong</b>.

[Jacks Complete]

The crackdown is in place. The UK just passed yet another Draconian anti-terror law, and all the two main parties seem to want to argue about is who can take away more freedoms in the run up to the elections.

We have had:
The Terrorism Act 2000 (TACT)
The Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001
Identity Cards Bill 2004
The anti-terror bill 2005 (hammered through in 2 days, and so fast no-one even seems to know the full name!)
A promised Anti-terror bill for 2006!

Combined with the Criminal Justice Act, the various police powers acts, the "reforms" to the House of Lords, the massively increased powers given to the Cabinet under so-called "emergency powers", and what have we left?

House arrest, no right to silence, deportation without due process, secret courts, tagging, orders for the banning of lawful protests, people and organisations, no Habeus Corpus, the massively reduced requirements for Means Rae, compulsory ID cards, no right to see the evidence or charges or even allegations...

Withholding access to a lawyer, using evidence that was obtained under torture, Stop & Search, the list goes on & on. Freedom of speech curtailments, heavy restrictions on lawful demonstration, as well as a massive reduction in what can be considered lawful when demonstrating, even banning centuries old things like fox hunting by forcing it through the second house using the parliament act... If I searched I could easily find more.

Yet fear is up, crime is up, cost of living is up! 800+ years of freedom, stolen away, and not by any terrorist.

The crackdown is here, and it's name is Democracy. It's name is New Labor Statist Authoritarianism. It is Tony Bliar and his abuses of power. His removal of the safety catches on this legal and political system of ours. His constant ruthless streak makes him get his own way, and if he cannot? He just forces the rules changed so next time, he can do as he pleases even more quickly and without thought.

A lawful dictatorship is a mere word away from the Home Secretary's lips.
And that is <b>wrong</b>.

[cyclonite4]

On the topic of ID cards, the public transport authority here is introducing a RFID card that tracks your movement around buses and trains (it is supposed to charge you for their service automatically depending on your trip), I think it's just a way of seeing who is where, when.

Also, you may notice that your mobile phone (if you use one) tells you what suburb you are in on the display. If you can know where you are, so can big brother. Thats why I'm giving up my mobile phone.

[cyclonite4]

On the topic of ID cards, the public transport authority here is introducing a RFID card that tracks your movement around buses and trains (it is supposed to charge you for their service automatically depending on your trip), I think it's just a way of seeing who is where, when.

Also, you may notice that your mobile phone (if you use one) tells you what suburb you are in on the display. If you can know where you are, so can big brother. Thats why I'm giving up my mobile phone.

[cyclonite4]

On the topic of ID cards, the public transport authority here is introducing a RFID card that tracks your movement around buses and trains (it is supposed to charge you for their service automatically depending on your trip), I think it's just a way of seeing who is where, when.

Also, you may notice that your mobile phone (if you use one) tells you what suburb you are in on the display. If you can know where you are, so can big brother. Thats why I'm giving up my mobile phone.

[megalomania]

I think the subject of national ID cards is something that will only affect the law abiding, just like gun control. For those looking to evade the government these are pathetic measures that add inconvenience, not impossibility, to a criminal task. Anyone ever use a fake ID? Ever hear of them? Ever use your brothers, or sisters, or friends older brothers ID to get into a bar or club? Most people fit into a appearance type that can be approximated on a large number of ID's considering the photos are small. Just about every town has a guy who can counterfeit legit ID cards. Some are better than others, it just depends on who you are trying to fool.

Cell phones can always be ordered under an assumed name, or through your grandmothers name if you want. As long as they get there payment on time they don't care who uses the phone.

If everytime the government passed a law and it worked then there would be no guns on the street you can buy for $50, or drugs, or fake ID's for that matter. Sometimes these laws make getting the illegal good even easier than without it. Making something illegal raises awareness of the product, creates a larger market, and the criminal element responds to fullfil the demand. Take drugs for example. It seems the more they crack down the more drugs become available.

They will never stop us from having guns, explosives, drugs, porn, or whatever else we want. The police attract the lions share of the unambitious, the inept, and the uninspired. They are average at best, criminals themselves at worst, overworked, underpayed, and always facing budget cuts.

[megalomania]

I think the subject of national ID cards is something that will only affect the law abiding, just like gun control. For those looking to evade the government these are pathetic measures that add inconvenience, not impossibility, to a criminal task. Anyone ever use a fake ID? Ever hear of them? Ever use your brothers, or sisters, or friends older brothers ID to get into a bar or club? Most people fit into a appearance type that can be approximated on a large number of ID's considering the photos are small. Just about every town has a guy who can counterfeit legit ID cards. Some are better than others, it just depends on who you are trying to fool.

Cell phones can always be ordered under an assumed name, or through your grandmothers name if you want. As long as they get there payment on time they don't care who uses the phone.

If everytime the government passed a law and it worked then there would be no guns on the street you can buy for $50, or drugs, or fake ID's for that matter. Sometimes these laws make getting the illegal good even easier than without it. Making something illegal raises awareness of the product, creates a larger market, and the criminal element responds to fullfil the demand. Take drugs for example. It seems the more they crack down the more drugs become available.

They will never stop us from having guns, explosives, drugs, porn, or whatever else we want. The police attract the lions share of the unambitious, the inept, and the uninspired. They are average at best, criminals themselves at worst, overworked, underpayed, and always facing budget cuts.

[megalomania]

I think the subject of national ID cards is something that will only affect the law abiding, just like gun control. For those looking to evade the government these are pathetic measures that add inconvenience, not impossibility, to a criminal task. Anyone ever use a fake ID? Ever hear of them? Ever use your brothers, or sisters, or friends older brothers ID to get into a bar or club? Most people fit into a appearance type that can be approximated on a large number of ID's considering the photos are small. Just about every town has a guy who can counterfeit legit ID cards. Some are better than others, it just depends on who you are trying to fool.

Cell phones can always be ordered under an assumed name, or through your grandmothers name if you want. As long as they get there payment on time they don't care who uses the phone.

If everytime the government passed a law and it worked then there would be no guns on the street you can buy for $50, or drugs, or fake ID's for that matter. Sometimes these laws make getting the illegal good even easier than without it. Making something illegal raises awareness of the product, creates a larger market, and the criminal element responds to fullfil the demand. Take drugs for example. It seems the more they crack down the more drugs become available.

They will never stop us from having guns, explosives, drugs, porn, or whatever else we want. The police attract the lions share of the unambitious, the inept, and the uninspired. They are average at best, criminals themselves at worst, overworked, underpayed, and always facing budget cuts.

[cyclonite4]

Actually over here, you have to register your cellphone with whatever company your choosing, and they activate your phone about half-an-hour late (once they have checked your details).
They must actually check up, because the first time I was activating my phone it informed me of an 'accidental' error in my details, which I had to fix up with a service representative.

[cyclonite4]

Actually over here, you have to register your cellphone with whatever company your choosing, and they activate your phone about half-an-hour late (once they have checked your details).
They must actually check up, because the first time I was activating my phone it informed me of an 'accidental' error in my details, which I had to fix up with a service representative.

[cyclonite4]

Actually over here, you have to register your cellphone with whatever company your choosing, and they activate your phone about half-an-hour late (once they have checked your details).
They must actually check up, because the first time I was activating my phone it informed me of an 'accidental' error in my details, which I had to fix up with a service representative.

[tmp]

Jack's Complete and Cylonite4, I thought we had it bad here in the states,
but you guys are getting more shit from your government than I get from
mine ! Those control freaks know no limits !

[tmp]

Jack's Complete and Cylonite4, I thought we had it bad here in the states,
but you guys are getting more shit from your government than I get from
mine ! Those control freaks know no limits !

[tmp]

Jack's Complete and Cylonite4, I thought we had it bad here in the states,
but you guys are getting more shit from your government than I get from
mine ! Those control freaks know no limits !

[cyclonite4]

Frankly, I wouldn't be suprised if the 'acts of terror' commited in America were performed by the government as a means of justification for the eradication of rights and suppression of information that could 'pose a threat to the safety of society'.

They promise action against terrorism, and failing that, compromise by revoking rights instead.

[cyclonite4]

Frankly, I wouldn't be suprised if the 'acts of terror' commited in America were performed by the government as a means of justification for the eradication of rights and suppression of information that could 'pose a threat to the safety of society'.

They promise action against terrorism, and failing that, compromise by revoking rights instead.

[cyclonite4]

Frankly, I wouldn't be suprised if the 'acts of terror' commited in America were performed by the government as a means of justification for the eradication of rights and suppression of information that could 'pose a threat to the safety of society'.

They promise action against terrorism, and failing that, compromise by revoking rights instead.

[akinrog]

To Cyclonite4,
That possibility (i.e. the current terrorism wave might be invented by the US government) has been discussed too much here and I believe majority of members to a certain extent believe it or have serious doubts/conviction over it (given the fact that core cadre of queer al-qaeda was previously backed up, payrolled, trained and provided with logistic and military support by our beloved three letter intelligence organization of our beloved global police during invasion of Afghanistan by Reds). And don't forget our beloved US president and his father and saxophone playing former president were continously and persistently mentioning about the so called "New World Order" (which I belive is inspired by infamous secret society Skull and Bones)

This blasted New World Order manifests itself to ordinary citizens of the world step by step. I belive this New World Order is some sort of "New Age" colonization of the nations who have natural resources needed by fat dimple assed bosses of multinational /global giga companies. (Don't forget dubya aka "the pedocite and oil mugger" is also a Texan oil tycoon.)

As for the control of the society it is same in my country. In order to get a mobile phone subscription you have to prove not only your identity but also your legal residence (by supplying some utility bills issued in your name).

[akinrog]

To Cyclonite4,
That possibility (i.e. the current terrorism wave might be invented by the US government) has been discussed too much here and I believe majority of members to a certain extent believe it or have serious doubts/conviction over it (given the fact that core cadre of queer al-qaeda was previously backed up, payrolled, trained and provided with logistic and military support by our beloved three letter intelligence organization of our beloved global police during invasion of Afghanistan by Reds). And don't forget our beloved US president and his father and saxophone playing former president were continously and persistently mentioning about the so called "New World Order" (which I belive is inspired by infamous secret society Skull and Bones)

This blasted New World Order manifests itself to ordinary citizens of the world step by step. I belive this New World Order is some sort of "New Age" colonization of the nations who have natural resources needed by fat dimple assed bosses of multinational /global giga companies. (Don't forget dubya aka "the pedocite and oil mugger" is also a Texan oil tycoon.)

As for the control of the society it is same in my country. In order to get a mobile phone subscription you have to prove not only your identity but also your legal residence (by supplying some utility bills issued in your name).

[akinrog]

To Cyclonite4,
That possibility (i.e. the current terrorism wave might be invented by the US government) has been discussed too much here and I believe majority of members to a certain extent believe it or have serious doubts/conviction over it (given the fact that core cadre of queer al-qaeda was previously backed up, payrolled, trained and provided with logistic and military support by our beloved three letter intelligence organization of our beloved global police during invasion of Afghanistan by Reds). And don't forget our beloved US president and his father and saxophone playing former president were continously and persistently mentioning about the so called "New World Order" (which I belive is inspired by infamous secret society Skull and Bones)

This blasted New World Order manifests itself to ordinary citizens of the world step by step. I belive this New World Order is some sort of "New Age" colonization of the nations who have natural resources needed by fat dimple assed bosses of multinational /global giga companies. (Don't forget dubya aka "the pedocite and oil mugger" is also a Texan oil tycoon.)

As for the control of the society it is same in my country. In order to get a mobile phone subscription you have to prove not only your identity but also your legal residence (by supplying some utility bills issued in your name).

[Skean Dhu]

I agree, The crack down has already started, its just a matter of time until the proverbial snowball gains enough momentum to eradicate the rights. I went to infowars.com after seeing it here or possibley on the frugal forums(I think it was here). and at first it looked kinda crack-potted and all, but the more I read it the more it made sense. After downloading some of the trailers for his propaganda and, reading his articles, I realized just how bad it was.

There was a show on the Fox network called 'the lone gunmen' a spin-off of some X-files characters, and approximately 6 months before 9/11 they aired a show whose plot was passenger planes flying into the WTC complex.

In The PATRIOT Act and other similar documents, a terrorist is defined as a person or group of people trying to change the governments position on a topic by force or coercion(sp?). What better coercion than a few hundred voters chanting outside your place of work. What used to be allowed anywhere is now restricted to 'free speech' zones, I thought this whole country was a free speech zone..

While reading 1984 I got to the part where Winston is reading The Book and Orwell is discussing how war is peace. I actually see this happening today, governments not attacking the people so much as the economy, and by attacking the economy boosting it. The United States drug its self from the Great depression when WWII started, the production of arms created jobs and made the economy viable again.
This great empire will crumble in my lifetime, a quote on Don Rearics page talks about how the average span of every great empire/civilization is ~200 years, well America is +200 years in its glory, the worst is yet to come......

[Skean Dhu]

I agree, The crack down has already started, its just a matter of time until the proverbial snowball gains enough momentum to eradicate the rights. I went to infowars.com after seeing it here or possibley on the frugal forums(I think it was here). and at first it looked kinda crack-potted and all, but the more I read it the more it made sense. After downloading some of the trailers for his propaganda and, reading his articles, I realized just how bad it was.

There was a show on the Fox network called 'the lone gunmen' a spin-off of some X-files characters, and approximately 6 months before 9/11 they aired a show whose plot was passenger planes flying into the WTC complex.

In The PATRIOT Act and other similar documents, a terrorist is defined as a person or group of people trying to change the governments position on a topic by force or coercion(sp?). What better coercion than a few hundred voters chanting outside your place of work. What used to be allowed anywhere is now restricted to 'free speech' zones, I thought this whole country was a free speech zone..

While reading 1984 I got to the part where Winston is reading The Book and Orwell is discussing how war is peace. I actually see this happening today, governments not attacking the people so much as the economy, and by attacking the economy boosting it. The United States drug its self from the Great depression when WWII started, the production of arms created jobs and made the economy viable again.
This great empire will crumble in my lifetime, a quote on Don Rearics page talks about how the average span of every great empire/civilization is ~200 years, well America is +200 years in its glory, the worst is yet to come......

[Skean Dhu]

I agree, The crack down has already started, its just a matter of time until the proverbial snowball gains enough momentum to eradicate the rights. I went to infowars.com after seeing it here or possibley on the frugal forums(I think it was here). and at first it looked kinda crack-potted and all, but the more I read it the more it made sense. After downloading some of the trailers for his propaganda and, reading his articles, I realized just how bad it was.

There was a show on the Fox network called 'the lone gunmen' a spin-off of some X-files characters, and approximately 6 months before 9/11 they aired a show whose plot was passenger planes flying into the WTC complex.

In The PATRIOT Act and other similar documents, a terrorist is defined as a person or group of people trying to change the governments position on a topic by force or coercion(sp?). What better coercion than a few hundred voters chanting outside your place of work. What used to be allowed anywhere is now restricted to 'free speech' zones, I thought this whole country was a free speech zone..

While reading 1984 I got to the part where Winston is reading The Book and Orwell is discussing how war is peace. I actually see this happening today, governments not attacking the people so much as the economy, and by attacking the economy boosting it. The United States drug its self from the Great depression when WWII started, the production of arms created jobs and made the economy viable again.
This great empire will crumble in my lifetime, a quote on Don Rearics page talks about how the average span of every great empire/civilization is ~200 years, well America is +200 years in its glory, the worst is yet to come......

[bipolar]

Here is a good quote to remember when the mass arrests come.

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand…The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

[bipolar]

Here is a good quote to remember when the mass arrests come.

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand…The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

[bipolar]

Here is a good quote to remember when the mass arrests come.

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand…The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

[me234]

Did you guys read the paper the other day?
There's some supermarket chain or something in
Germany that recently started allowing customers to pay by putting their finger on a scanner.
They say the customer only has to register once and never again.
I'M SO HAPPY I COULD FUCKING CRY!!!!!!!!
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I put it to you now.
It's finally happening properly.
They're going full out, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.
As they say in ebonics: We be fucked.
Guess it's time we start caching really well.

FUCK

[me234]

Did you guys read the paper the other day?
There's some supermarket chain or something in
Germany that recently started allowing customers to pay by putting their finger on a scanner.
They say the customer only has to register once and never again.
I'M SO HAPPY I COULD FUCKING CRY!!!!!!!!
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I put it to you now.
It's finally happening properly.
They're going full out, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.
As they say in ebonics: We be fucked.
Guess it's time we start caching really well.

FUCK

[me234]

Did you guys read the paper the other day?
There's some supermarket chain or something in
Germany that recently started allowing customers to pay by putting their finger on a scanner.
They say the customer only has to register once and never again.
I'M SO HAPPY I COULD FUCKING CRY!!!!!!!!
Well, ladies and gentlemen, I put it to you now.
It's finally happening properly.
They're going full out, and it's not going to stop anytime soon.
As they say in ebonics: We be fucked.
Guess it's time we start caching really well.

FUCK

[megalomania]

They have been doing this all along. Ever use one of those "discount cards" they give out to customers, or worse still a credit card? They serve the same purpose, to track what you buy. It is every marketers dream to know exactly what every consumer in the country is buying, how much of it, and when. Of course it starts out all well and good, you get a few coupons for stuff you buy. Nothing wrong with that. Then you start getting targeted advertisments for name brand products (always more expensive). Next you get on mailing lists for off the wall things because of what they WANT you to buy. Finally the government uses "consumer profiling" to gauge exactly what kind of citizen you are based on what you buy. Even the insurance companies will want in on that action, buy too much bacon and all of a sudden your premiums go up.

One way or another they will track what you buy. That's why I advise you to take precautions. A few stores accept pieces of paper when you buy things. I suggest using those pieces of paper for all chemical and equipment purchases whenever possible. Save the plastic for half-price chicken.

[megalomania]

They have been doing this all along. Ever use one of those "discount cards" they give out to customers, or worse still a credit card? They serve the same purpose, to track what you buy. It is every marketers dream to know exactly what every consumer in the country is buying, how much of it, and when. Of course it starts out all well and good, you get a few coupons for stuff you buy. Nothing wrong with that. Then you start getting targeted advertisments for name brand products (always more expensive). Next you get on mailing lists for off the wall things because of what they WANT you to buy. Finally the government uses "consumer profiling" to gauge exactly what kind of citizen you are based on what you buy. Even the insurance companies will want in on that action, buy too much bacon and all of a sudden your premiums go up.

One way or another they will track what you buy. That's why I advise you to take precautions. A few stores accept pieces of paper when you buy things. I suggest using those pieces of paper for all chemical and equipment purchases whenever possible. Save the plastic for half-price chicken.

[megalomania]

They have been doing this all along. Ever use one of those "discount cards" they give out to customers, or worse still a credit card? They serve the same purpose, to track what you buy. It is every marketers dream to know exactly what every consumer in the country is buying, how much of it, and when. Of course it starts out all well and good, you get a few coupons for stuff you buy. Nothing wrong with that. Then you start getting targeted advertisments for name brand products (always more expensive). Next you get on mailing lists for off the wall things because of what they WANT you to buy. Finally the government uses "consumer profiling" to gauge exactly what kind of citizen you are based on what you buy. Even the insurance companies will want in on that action, buy too much bacon and all of a sudden your premiums go up.

One way or another they will track what you buy. That's why I advise you to take precautions. A few stores accept pieces of paper when you buy things. I suggest using those pieces of paper for all chemical and equipment purchases whenever possible. Save the plastic for half-price chicken.

[Silentnite]

There was an article over on Slashdot, discussing how a few online companies are getting bashed. Basically places such as Amazon.com can figure out your age and birthday and all that from the items someone buys. They use it to track what you buy, and also to show you other things you might like.

Can I ask who actually likes this service? Please keep track of my buying so as to .... um.. Show me things I already know I like???

Is it the same people who open spam email attachments and spread virii???

[Silentnite]

There was an article over on Slashdot, discussing how a few online companies are getting bashed. Basically places such as Amazon.com can figure out your age and birthday and all that from the items someone buys. They use it to track what you buy, and also to show you other things you might like.

Can I ask who actually likes this service? Please keep track of my buying so as to .... um.. Show me things I already know I like???

Is it the same people who open spam email attachments and spread virii???

[Silentnite]

There was an article over on Slashdot, discussing how a few online companies are getting bashed. Basically places such as Amazon.com can figure out your age and birthday and all that from the items someone buys. They use it to track what you buy, and also to show you other things you might like.

Can I ask who actually likes this service? Please keep track of my buying so as to .... um.. Show me things I already know I like???

Is it the same people who open spam email attachments and spread virii???

[megalomania]

It's not for the benefit of the consumer, that's for sure. They sell that information to their vendors who in turn benefit by targeting their advertisments. For example Pepsi want to know how many people are drinking Coke, and Coke wants to know how many are buying Pepsi. The retailer can play both sides against the middle and try to convince sonsumers to buy the competing product.

Tracking buying trends also allows marketers to tailor their advertisments to certain areas. This goes beyond selling malt liquor to niggers in the hood, and Camels to rednecks in trailor parks by allowing them to focus on specific neighborhoods, and stores. Knowing what the other guy is selling also helps you target their strong sales areas to weaken them and spread your brand.

This also has implications to the government because under the guise of "marketing" they will buy the volumes of data the civilian companies generate to find undesirables. Buy a copy of Barely Legal and Guns-n-Ammo, a 6-pack, and some condoms and they probably have a special list of what type of criminal you are likely to be.

Remember: We are all criminals to the government. There are so many laws you invariably break one. It is just a matter of what law you break, and the resources the government has at the moment that brings the heat on you. Eventually the government will get more and more resources... Then comes the crackdown.

[megalomania]

It's not for the benefit of the consumer, that's for sure. They sell that information to their vendors who in turn benefit by targeting their advertisments. For example Pepsi want to know how many people are drinking Coke, and Coke wants to know how many are buying Pepsi. The retailer can play both sides against the middle and try to convince sonsumers to buy the competing product.

Tracking buying trends also allows marketers to tailor their advertisments to certain areas. This goes beyond selling malt liquor to niggers in the hood, and Camels to rednecks in trailor parks by allowing them to focus on specific neighborhoods, and stores. Knowing what the other guy is selling also helps you target their strong sales areas to weaken them and spread your brand.

This also has implications to the government because under the guise of "marketing" they will buy the volumes of data the civilian companies generate to find undesirables. Buy a copy of Barely Legal and Guns-n-Ammo, a 6-pack, and some condoms and they probably have a special list of what type of criminal you are likely to be.

Remember: We are all criminals to the government. There are so many laws you invariably break one. It is just a matter of what law you break, and the resources the government has at the moment that brings the heat on you. Eventually the government will get more and more resources... Then comes the crackdown.

[megalomania]

It's not for the benefit of the consumer, that's for sure. They sell that information to their vendors who in turn benefit by targeting their advertisments. For example Pepsi want to know how many people are drinking Coke, and Coke wants to know how many are buying Pepsi. The retailer can play both sides against the middle and try to convince sonsumers to buy the competing product.

Tracking buying trends also allows marketers to tailor their advertisments to certain areas. This goes beyond selling malt liquor to niggers in the hood, and Camels to rednecks in trailor parks by allowing them to focus on specific neighborhoods, and stores. Knowing what the other guy is selling also helps you target their strong sales areas to weaken them and spread your brand.

This also has implications to the government because under the guise of "marketing" they will buy the volumes of data the civilian companies generate to find undesirables. Buy a copy of Barely Legal and Guns-n-Ammo, a 6-pack, and some condoms and they probably have a special list of what type of criminal you are likely to be.

Remember: We are all criminals to the government. There are so many laws you invariably break one. It is just a matter of what law you break, and the resources the government has at the moment that brings the heat on you. Eventually the government will get more and more resources... Then comes the crackdown.

[Silentnite]

How long until Televisions become TeleCines.

This brought to mind a quote from the Drew Carey show “Why dont you just buy the porn channel Drew?“ “Because I already get the Cartoon network and I hear they put you on a list if you get both“

Marketers will buy anything about you in order to cram more down your throat. I decided to throw away my value cards from several different places and I have now started complaining everytime I go through about needing to use it. I use the store one or I just get the manager to write it off. I have gotten several people to ask why they would want to track our purchases.

[Silentnite]

How long until Televisions become TeleCines.

This brought to mind a quote from the Drew Carey show “Why dont you just buy the porn channel Drew?“ “Because I already get the Cartoon network and I hear they put you on a list if you get both“

Marketers will buy anything about you in order to cram more down your throat. I decided to throw away my value cards from several different places and I have now started complaining everytime I go through about needing to use it. I use the store one or I just get the manager to write it off. I have gotten several people to ask why they would want to track our purchases.

[Silentnite]

How long until Televisions become TeleCines.

This brought to mind a quote from the Drew Carey show “Why dont you just buy the porn channel Drew?“ “Because I already get the Cartoon network and I hear they put you on a list if you get both“

Marketers will buy anything about you in order to cram more down your throat. I decided to throw away my value cards from several different places and I have now started complaining everytime I go through about needing to use it. I use the store one or I just get the manager to write it off. I have gotten several people to ask why they would want to track our purchases.

[cyclonite4]

The television if a far more powerful weapon than a nuclear bomb, for it can destroy more minds simultanously.

Like yourself Silentnite, I am 'throwing the cards'. I've closed my bank accounts, I feel that any cash is safer with me, and I don't believe anyone has the right to know what I purchase, but me.

[cyclonite4]

The television if a far more powerful weapon than a nuclear bomb, for it can destroy more minds simultanously.

Like yourself Silentnite, I am 'throwing the cards'. I've closed my bank accounts, I feel that any cash is safer with me, and I don't believe anyone has the right to know what I purchase, but me.

[cyclonite4]

The television if a far more powerful weapon than a nuclear bomb, for it can destroy more minds simultanously.

Like yourself Silentnite, I am 'throwing the cards'. I've closed my bank accounts, I feel that any cash is safer with me, and I don't believe anyone has the right to know what I purchase, but me.

[Jacks Complete]

That is perhaps a little etreme, but I heard recently of a guy who got investigated by Customs and Excise AND the Inland Revenue. Pretty rare.

Turns out he was paying little tax, as he said he was earning £15k a year, but his wife used store cards - next thing you know she's spent 70K on those, and they used this as evidence against him... Most store cards get you 1% back, if you are lucky. That's £1 per hundred you spend, so you have to ask if it is worth it?

I know I'm on lists somewhere. Just visiting this website (or any other) is tracked by your ISP by law. They have to hold the records for a set time, and the Customs, Tax and Police want a new system that stores everything you do on the phone, email, web, fax and mobiles, country-wide, and to store it all for SEVEN years.

I know that the undersea cables are tapped, and all this stuff gets recorded as it heads under the sea to the USA.

They already have so much data it is insane, and as Mega says, we are all criminals.

Put the two together, and you have a totalitarian state the likes of which the world has never seen...

The only up-side is that if the govt. started doing this shit, the judges would slow them right down, as would jury trials (look up Jury Nullification - you won't be told about it if you get called for jury duty!) and then people would either vote them out or stop using the stuff.

Of course, this is why it is now (almost) impossible to even be a drop-out without having a bank account for your benefits! You have to get them paid into an account, and so they can track you.

[Jacks Complete]

That is perhaps a little etreme, but I heard recently of a guy who got investigated by Customs and Excise AND the Inland Revenue. Pretty rare.

Turns out he was paying little tax, as he said he was earning £15k a year, but his wife used store cards - next thing you know she's spent 70K on those, and they used this as evidence against him... Most store cards get you 1% back, if you are lucky. That's £1 per hundred you spend, so you have to ask if it is worth it?

I know I'm on lists somewhere. Just visiting this website (or any other) is tracked by your ISP by law. They have to hold the records for a set time, and the Customs, Tax and Police want a new system that stores everything you do on the phone, email, web, fax and mobiles, country-wide, and to store it all for SEVEN years.

I know that the undersea cables are tapped, and all this stuff gets recorded as it heads under the sea to the USA.

They already have so much data it is insane, and as Mega says, we are all criminals.

Put the two together, and you have a totalitarian state the likes of which the world has never seen...

The only up-side is that if the govt. started doing this shit, the judges would slow them right down, as would jury trials (look up Jury Nullification - you won't be told about it if you get called for jury duty!) and then people would either vote them out or stop using the stuff.

Of course, this is why it is now (almost) impossible to even be a drop-out without having a bank account for your benefits! You have to get them paid into an account, and so they can track you.

[Jacks Complete]

That is perhaps a little etreme, but I heard recently of a guy who got investigated by Customs and Excise AND the Inland Revenue. Pretty rare.

Turns out he was paying little tax, as he said he was earning £15k a year, but his wife used store cards - next thing you know she's spent 70K on those, and they used this as evidence against him... Most store cards get you 1% back, if you are lucky. That's £1 per hundred you spend, so you have to ask if it is worth it?

I know I'm on lists somewhere. Just visiting this website (or any other) is tracked by your ISP by law. They have to hold the records for a set time, and the Customs, Tax and Police want a new system that stores everything you do on the phone, email, web, fax and mobiles, country-wide, and to store it all for SEVEN years.

I know that the undersea cables are tapped, and all this stuff gets recorded as it heads under the sea to the USA.

They already have so much data it is insane, and as Mega says, we are all criminals.

Put the two together, and you have a totalitarian state the likes of which the world has never seen...

The only up-side is that if the govt. started doing this shit, the judges would slow them right down, as would jury trials (look up Jury Nullification - you won't be told about it if you get called for jury duty!) and then people would either vote them out or stop using the stuff.

Of course, this is why it is now (almost) impossible to even be a drop-out without having a bank account for your benefits! You have to get them paid into an account, and so they can track you.

[cyclonite4]

Yeah, but if you have to use an account to get funds, and you don't want them knowing your purchases, just widthdraw the money from an ATM, and buy what you need in cash.

[cyclonite4]

Yeah, but if you have to use an account to get funds, and you don't want them knowing your purchases, just widthdraw the money from an ATM, and buy what you need in cash.

[cyclonite4]

Yeah, but if you have to use an account to get funds, and you don't want them knowing your purchases, just widthdraw the money from an ATM, and buy what you need in cash.

[me234]

Jack, I know what you're saying with the judges and all, but think about the patriot act (if that's not an ironic title...), all they have to do is find one instance where they can apply that fuckup of an act to the multitudes, say by widening their definition of what terrorism is, and they can prosecute whoever-the-fuck-they-please, WITHOUT those few judges that might have stood up to them.
Hell, as I understand it, they can do whatever they want to do to you without ever telling anyone what they did and who they did it to.
Fuck me, is it just me or is the whole world becoming Room 101?
Shit this stuff depresses me.
I'm going home and crying to my mommy.

[me234]

Jack, I know what you're saying with the judges and all, but think about the patriot act (if that's not an ironic title...), all they have to do is find one instance where they can apply that fuckup of an act to the multitudes, say by widening their definition of what terrorism is, and they can prosecute whoever-the-fuck-they-please, WITHOUT those few judges that might have stood up to them.
Hell, as I understand it, they can do whatever they want to do to you without ever telling anyone what they did and who they did it to.
Fuck me, is it just me or is the whole world becoming Room 101?
Shit this stuff depresses me.
I'm going home and crying to my mommy.

[me234]

Jack, I know what you're saying with the judges and all, but think about the patriot act (if that's not an ironic title...), all they have to do is find one instance where they can apply that fuckup of an act to the multitudes, say by widening their definition of what terrorism is, and they can prosecute whoever-the-fuck-they-please, WITHOUT those few judges that might have stood up to them.
Hell, as I understand it, they can do whatever they want to do to you without ever telling anyone what they did and who they did it to.
Fuck me, is it just me or is the whole world becoming Room 101?
Shit this stuff depresses me.
I'm going home and crying to my mommy.

[Ropik]

No, it isn't just you. The world is going to hell. Here(SK), you even can't harm attacker, be it mugger or whatever, because our laws are build in a way that the defence must be even with the attack, meaning that you can break his arm only when he first broke yours :rolleyes: . You can't lay any traps on your property, not even spikes, caltrops or stuff like that and for trip wire-triggered crossbow or harpoon you may be prosecuted for murder attempt. Any trap that shoots any cartridge is prohibited weapon. Oh, I didn't know that I have so many upright-standing rusty nails in my garden ;) .

[Ropik]

No, it isn't just you. The world is going to hell. Here(SK), you even can't harm attacker, be it mugger or whatever, because our laws are build in a way that the defence must be even with the attack, meaning that you can break his arm only when he first broke yours :rolleyes: . You can't lay any traps on your property, not even spikes, caltrops or stuff like that and for trip wire-triggered crossbow or harpoon you may be prosecuted for murder attempt. Any trap that shoots any cartridge is prohibited weapon. Oh, I didn't know that I have so many upright-standing rusty nails in my garden ;) .

[Ropik]

No, it isn't just you. The world is going to hell. Here(SK), you even can't harm attacker, be it mugger or whatever, because our laws are build in a way that the defence must be even with the attack, meaning that you can break his arm only when he first broke yours :rolleyes: . You can't lay any traps on your property, not even spikes, caltrops or stuff like that and for trip wire-triggered crossbow or harpoon you may be prosecuted for murder attempt. Any trap that shoots any cartridge is prohibited weapon. Oh, I didn't know that I have so many upright-standing rusty nails in my garden ;) .

[nbk2000]

I don't know what'd they'd call it in the UK or europe, but in the US, if they wanted to put the fuck to you, then they'd call your use of the ATM for only cash-withdrawals as "Money Laundering", as you are "Structuring transactions to avoid reporting requirements" or some such non-sense, all of which means that they don't like you using cash to buy stuff as then they don't know what you bought, and THAT is the REAL crime. :p

The government is real big on the idea of biometrics because it'll squash the vast majority of 'new identity' techniques.

Good for preventing identity theft, but even better for sheeple control. :)

You'll still likely be able to get a valid ID in another name, 'cause there'll always be people who work at government offices that can be bought or coerced, but the REAL importance of biometrics comes when you try to leave the country, which is the only thing the government is really concerned with.

The fact that you can't (yet) change your iris or subdermal venous pattern means that, no matter what fake ID you have, the government will still be able to positively ID you when you try to get out, or simply move between cities, as they'll eventually have automatic checkpoints on every freeway, highway, interstate, airport and bus terminal, etc, specifically for this purpose.

And believing that a judge or jury will stop it...HA!

The jury will be composed of scared sheeple who've no idea of the concept of 'Jury Nullification', who've been conditioned by the schools/church/work/TV to believe the the government is their friend, and who'd rather let you hang for unjust charges than go another day without the latest episode of "Whose My Daddy?, because the federal jury selection consultants are the best paid in the business and are experts in picking the weak willed punks needed to ensure your demise.

And, if by some miracle you get a hung-jury, the results will be declared invalid, If the majority are in your favor, then the results will be nulled because of the 'rogue' jurors amoung them who are hanging the vote. If against you, the results are upheld because of the 'majority rule' that a lot of states are bringing into effect, where it doesn't have to be unanimous any more to convict.

Judges don't have freedom to sentence people to community service if they believe the conviction unjust, that's what mandatory sentencing laws are for. Even if they wanted to let you go because the law is unfair, they still have to give you 25-to-Life (or whatever), because otherwise the government gets on their ass as being 'soft on crime'!

And with the 'Anti-Terror PATRIOT Act Bill of Two Thousand Whatever because everybody is a potential Terr-or-ist and must be controlled and monitored to ensure they're good little sheep' laws we have now, they can just call you a 'terrorist' and not even bother with a trial...just ship you oft tu Zee KAMP! ;)

Either way, the house always wins, whether the gambling house or the court house.

[nbk2000]

I don't know what'd they'd call it in the UK or europe, but in the US, if they wanted to put the fuck to you, then they'd call your use of the ATM for only cash-withdrawals as "Money Laundering", as you are "Structuring transactions to avoid reporting requirements" or some such non-sense, all of which means that they don't like you using cash to buy stuff as then they don't know what you bought, and THAT is the REAL crime. :p

The government is real big on the idea of biometrics because it'll squash the vast majority of 'new identity' techniques.

Good for preventing identity theft, but even better for sheeple control. :)

You'll still likely be able to get a valid ID in another name, 'cause there'll always be people who work at government offices that can be bought or coerced, but the REAL importance of biometrics comes when you try to leave the country, which is the only thing the government is really concerned with.

The fact that you can't (yet) change your iris or subdermal venous pattern means that, no matter what fake ID you have, the government will still be able to positively ID you when you try to get out, or simply move between cities, as they'll eventually have automatic checkpoints on every freeway, highway, interstate, airport and bus terminal, etc, specifically for this purpose.

And believing that a judge or jury will stop it...HA!

The jury will be composed of scared sheeple who've no idea of the concept of 'Jury Nullification', who've been conditioned by the schools/church/work/TV to believe the the government is their friend, and who'd rather let you hang for unjust charges than go another day without the latest episode of "Whose My Daddy?, because the federal jury selection consultants are the best paid in the business and are experts in picking the weak willed punks needed to ensure your demise.

And, if by some miracle you get a hung-jury, the results will be declared invalid, If the majority are in your favor, then the results will be nulled because of the 'rogue' jurors amoung them who are hanging the vote. If against you, the results are upheld because of the 'majority rule' that a lot of states are bringing into effect, where it doesn't have to be unanimous any more to convict.

Judges don't have freedom to sentence people to community service if they believe the conviction unjust, that's what mandatory sentencing laws are for. Even if they wanted to let you go because the law is unfair, they still have to give you 25-to-Life (or whatever), because otherwise the government gets on their ass as being 'soft on crime'!

And with the 'Anti-Terror PATRIOT Act Bill of Two Thousand Whatever because everybody is a potential Terr-or-ist and must be controlled and monitored to ensure they're good little sheep' laws we have now, they can just call you a 'terrorist' and not even bother with a trial...just ship you oft tu Zee KAMP! ;)

Either way, the house always wins, whether the gambling house or the court house.

[nbk2000]

I don't know what'd they'd call it in the UK or europe, but in the US, if they wanted to put the fuck to you, then they'd call your use of the ATM for only cash-withdrawals as "Money Laundering", as you are "Structuring transactions to avoid reporting requirements" or some such non-sense, all of which means that they don't like you using cash to buy stuff as then they don't know what you bought, and THAT is the REAL crime. :p

The government is real big on the idea of biometrics because it'll squash the vast majority of 'new identity' techniques.

Good for preventing identity theft, but even better for sheeple control. :)

You'll still likely be able to get a valid ID in another name, 'cause there'll always be people who work at government offices that can be bought or coerced, but the REAL importance of biometrics comes when you try to leave the country, which is the only thing the government is really concerned with.

The fact that you can't (yet) change your iris or subdermal venous pattern means that, no matter what fake ID you have, the government will still be able to positively ID you when you try to get out, or simply move between cities, as they'll eventually have automatic checkpoints on every freeway, highway, interstate, airport and bus terminal, etc, specifically for this purpose.

And believing that a judge or jury will stop it...HA!

The jury will be composed of scared sheeple who've no idea of the concept of 'Jury Nullification', who've been conditioned by the schools/church/work/TV to believe the the government is their friend, and who'd rather let you hang for unjust charges than go another day without the latest episode of "Whose My Daddy?, because the federal jury selection consultants are the best paid in the business and are experts in picking the weak willed punks needed to ensure your demise.

And, if by some miracle you get a hung-jury, the results will be declared invalid, If the majority are in your favor, then the results will be nulled because of the 'rogue' jurors amoung them who are hanging the vote. If against you, the results are upheld because of the 'majority rule' that a lot of states are bringing into effect, where it doesn't have to be unanimous any more to convict.

Judges don't have freedom to sentence people to community service if they believe the conviction unjust, that's what mandatory sentencing laws are for. Even if they wanted to let you go because the law is unfair, they still have to give you 25-to-Life (or whatever), because otherwise the government gets on their ass as being 'soft on crime'!

And with the 'Anti-Terror PATRIOT Act Bill of Two Thousand Whatever because everybody is a potential Terr-or-ist and must be controlled and monitored to ensure they're good little sheep' laws we have now, they can just call you a 'terrorist' and not even bother with a trial...just ship you oft tu Zee KAMP! ;)

Either way, the house always wins, whether the gambling house or the court house.

[me234]

I don't know what site this is from as a friend sent it to me without the link attached, so I can't reference it, but anyway tell me if this sounds off a bell in anyone's head.

"
The selling point for implanting biochips beneath your skin is that they cannot be stolen. They can be used to access ATM’s, pay bills, sign contracts, verify your identity--all without your wallet--and locate lost or kidnaped children. Should you, yourself, become lost or disabled, a global array of satellites will locate you, or any person who has been implanted with a SIB (Subdermally Implanted Biochip) anywhere on the planet.

A SIB can contain complete, valuable medical data about its wearer, saving lives in trauma cases. It can also index the wearer’s criminal record, voting record, party affiliation, and level of access to government facilities and benefits, all without the wearer knowing exactly what’s in there. Citizens will just have to take the government’s word that everything is kosher.

Eventually, governments will insist that all citizens have SIBs. You will not be able to use your bank, open home utility accounts, nor sign contracts unless fitted with a SIB, for ‘security purposes.’

One day, your car won't start and you won't be able to get a tow truck nor money to repair it because it your SIB chip is not working. The bank’s ATM won’t accept your SIB’s code, yet you see it accepting the SIB’s of other customers.

Your spouse will call from the grocery store, saying her chip also isn’t working and she can’t buy food for the kids. Once, stores accepted both cash and SIB’s, but by edict of the Federal Reserve System, no one may use cash nor credit cards any more. All for reasons of ‘national security’ of course.

After hours of begging a government agency for an answer, it will turn out that a 20 year old clerk in Scumpond, Mass., put a hold on your whole family’s chips because of an unpaid parking ticket attributed to your vehicle’s license plate number.



You shout that you have never even been to Scumpond, Mass., but it falls on deaf ears. You are told that you will have to take the matter up with Ms. Dumklerk in person. You telephone the Scumpond City Hall Department of Revenue from your neighbor's home, as your own phone was just shut off because of your “criminal status.” They tell you that Ms. Dumklerk is on a leave of absence, so you'll just have to be patient until she returns. No one else can help you, because Ms. Dumklerk encrypted access to all her files with her SIB code, which is against procedure, but they never had time to train her properly because they are underfunded and overworked.

You are told to call back in a four weeks, when Ms. Dumclerk might be back from the rain forest. Sorry.

Unable to buy or sell, you turn to family, friends and neighbors for aid. You need a car to get to work, food, diapers, milk, a kerosene heater for your house and candles, since the electric is shut off.

Your parents try to help, but they are immediately warned at the cash-less register in the store that they are not allowed to exceed their “fair share” in purchasing food and hardware for an elderly couple, which has already been calculated by the U.S. Department of Earth First. Sadly, they give you what little excess they had in their pantry, but it will only help your family for a few days. Ditto for your few friends and neighbors. After surrendering their small hordes, most give excuses, because they know what it means to fall under the scrutiny of the government for exceeding their “fair share” of the planet’s resources, as scientifically defined by U.C. Berkeley.

After two weeks, the baby is whining for milk, the children are begging for food and your wife can't stop crying. You no longer can use a phone to call Scumpond. Your neighbor just told you that his telephone is off limits, since you caused it to exceed the time allotment authorized by the U.S. Department of Communications Conservation. He is now himself under resource scrutiny.

Desperate, with no options left, you remember the old unregistered pistol buried beneath your bedroom floorboards. Never in your life did you think you would stoop this low, but the baby is now screaming non-stop.

Associated Press Trenton,
New Jersey TRENTON HERALD

Tuesday, November 25 - "A typically over-breeding Trenton terrorist, a father of six, was caught approaching an unnamed convenience store on Broad Street with a concealed weapon. Automated sensors sent an alarm to the Trenton Federal P.D. who immediately surrounded and arrested the terrorist. Fortunately, there were several TFPD agents in plainclothes within one block of the incident. As federal policy dictates, the terrorist’s name is being withheld for national security purposes. He will be sent to the island of Guam for a trial by a U.S. Military Tribunal to determine all his accomplices and then be executed. As is mandated by federal law, his immediate relatives will also be terminated to remove the contamination of their defective, terrorist genes from society. All else who are discovered to have aided this terrorist cell will be sent to U.S. Department of Education camps in Ohio. Several neighbors are already under arrest by counter-terrorism SWAT agents.

U.S. Senator Hiram Walker has called for a Joint Investigation Committee to stop terrorist violence, as seen in Trenton, by retrofitting all SIB’s with explosive charges so that federal police agents at the local level may interdict such crimes more immediately. He pointed out the multi-billion dollar savings to the tax payer if the practice of sending thousands of terrorists and their genetic carriers to Guam every month can be stopped because FPD units will have the great privilege to solve such problems locally with the new Explosive Subdermally Implanted Biochips (ESIB) on defective terrorist gene groups and their abettors. The Senator stated his supreme confidence that all straight-thinking citizens would welcome the new ESIBs in the name of national security. Senator Walker added that he anticipates no resistance by his constituents, because such objections would be unpatriotic and thus be in violation of the Amended USA P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act."

© 2004 - Jack Duggan - All Rights Reserved
"

Depressing isn't it, and all the public sees is that the chip can't be stolen and that the government says it's the right thing to do, and they're here to help, so obviously it must be a good, infallable idea:
Ronald Reagan said: 'The scariest words in the english language are: We're from the government, we're here to help'
And he was a president, that's gotta tell you something!

[me234]

I don't know what site this is from as a friend sent it to me without the link attached, so I can't reference it, but anyway tell me if this sounds off a bell in anyone's head.

"
The selling point for implanting biochips beneath your skin is that they cannot be stolen. They can be used to access ATM’s, pay bills, sign contracts, verify your identity--all without your wallet--and locate lost or kidnaped children. Should you, yourself, become lost or disabled, a global array of satellites will locate you, or any person who has been implanted with a SIB (Subdermally Implanted Biochip) anywhere on the planet.

A SIB can contain complete, valuable medical data about its wearer, saving lives in trauma cases. It can also index the wearer’s criminal record, voting record, party affiliation, and level of access to government facilities and benefits, all without the wearer knowing exactly what’s in there. Citizens will just have to take the government’s word that everything is kosher.

Eventually, governments will insist that all citizens have SIBs. You will not be able to use your bank, open home utility accounts, nor sign contracts unless fitted with a SIB, for ‘security purposes.’

One day, your car won't start and you won't be able to get a tow truck nor money to repair it because it your SIB chip is not working. The bank’s ATM won’t accept your SIB’s code, yet you see it accepting the SIB’s of other customers.

Your spouse will call from the grocery store, saying her chip also isn’t working and she can’t buy food for the kids. Once, stores accepted both cash and SIB’s, but by edict of the Federal Reserve System, no one may use cash nor credit cards any more. All for reasons of ‘national security’ of course.

After hours of begging a government agency for an answer, it will turn out that a 20 year old clerk in Scumpond, Mass., put a hold on your whole family’s chips because of an unpaid parking ticket attributed to your vehicle’s license plate number.



You shout that you have never even been to Scumpond, Mass., but it falls on deaf ears. You are told that you will have to take the matter up with Ms. Dumklerk in person. You telephone the Scumpond City Hall Department of Revenue from your neighbor's home, as your own phone was just shut off because of your “criminal status.” They tell you that Ms. Dumklerk is on a leave of absence, so you'll just have to be patient until she returns. No one else can help you, because Ms. Dumklerk encrypted access to all her files with her SIB code, which is against procedure, but they never had time to train her properly because they are underfunded and overworked.

You are told to call back in a four weeks, when Ms. Dumclerk might be back from the rain forest. Sorry.

Unable to buy or sell, you turn to family, friends and neighbors for aid. You need a car to get to work, food, diapers, milk, a kerosene heater for your house and candles, since the electric is shut off.

Your parents try to help, but they are immediately warned at the cash-less register in the store that they are not allowed to exceed their “fair share” in purchasing food and hardware for an elderly couple, which has already been calculated by the U.S. Department of Earth First. Sadly, they give you what little excess they had in their pantry, but it will only help your family for a few days. Ditto for your few friends and neighbors. After surrendering their small hordes, most give excuses, because they know what it means to fall under the scrutiny of the government for exceeding their “fair share” of the planet’s resources, as scientifically defined by U.C. Berkeley.

After two weeks, the baby is whining for milk, the children are begging for food and your wife can't stop crying. You no longer can use a phone to call Scumpond. Your neighbor just told you that his telephone is off limits, since you caused it to exceed the time allotment authorized by the U.S. Department of Communications Conservation. He is now himself under resource scrutiny.

Desperate, with no options left, you remember the old unregistered pistol buried beneath your bedroom floorboards. Never in your life did you think you would stoop this low, but the baby is now screaming non-stop.

Associated Press Trenton,
New Jersey TRENTON HERALD

Tuesday, November 25 - "A typically over-breeding Trenton terrorist, a father of six, was caught approaching an unnamed convenience store on Broad Street with a concealed weapon. Automated sensors sent an alarm to the Trenton Federal P.D. who immediately surrounded and arrested the terrorist. Fortunately, there were several TFPD agents in plainclothes within one block of the incident. As federal policy dictates, the terrorist’s name is being withheld for national security purposes. He will be sent to the island of Guam for a trial by a U.S. Military Tribunal to determine all his accomplices and then be executed. As is mandated by federal law, his immediate relatives will also be terminated to remove the contamination of their defective, terrorist genes from society. All else who are discovered to have aided this terrorist cell will be sent to U.S. Department of Education camps in Ohio. Several neighbors are already under arrest by counter-terrorism SWAT agents.

U.S. Senator Hiram Walker has called for a Joint Investigation Committee to stop terrorist violence, as seen in Trenton, by retrofitting all SIB’s with explosive charges so that federal police agents at the local level may interdict such crimes more immediately. He pointed out the multi-billion dollar savings to the tax payer if the practice of sending thousands of terrorists and their genetic carriers to Guam every month can be stopped because FPD units will have the great privilege to solve such problems locally with the new Explosive Subdermally Implanted Biochips (ESIB) on defective terrorist gene groups and their abettors. The Senator stated his supreme confidence that all straight-thinking citizens would welcome the new ESIBs in the name of national security. Senator Walker added that he anticipates no resistance by his constituents, because such objections would be unpatriotic and thus be in violation of the Amended USA P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act."

© 2004 - Jack Duggan - All Rights Reserved
"

Depressing isn't it, and all the public sees is that the chip can't be stolen and that the government says it's the right thing to do, and they're here to help, so obviously it must be a good, infallable idea:
Ronald Reagan said: 'The scariest words in the english language are: We're from the government, we're here to help'
And he was a president, that's gotta tell you something!

[me234]

I don't know what site this is from as a friend sent it to me without the link attached, so I can't reference it, but anyway tell me if this sounds off a bell in anyone's head.

"
The selling point for implanting biochips beneath your skin is that they cannot be stolen. They can be used to access ATM’s, pay bills, sign contracts, verify your identity--all without your wallet--and locate lost or kidnaped children. Should you, yourself, become lost or disabled, a global array of satellites will locate you, or any person who has been implanted with a SIB (Subdermally Implanted Biochip) anywhere on the planet.

A SIB can contain complete, valuable medical data about its wearer, saving lives in trauma cases. It can also index the wearer’s criminal record, voting record, party affiliation, and level of access to government facilities and benefits, all without the wearer knowing exactly what’s in there. Citizens will just have to take the government’s word that everything is kosher.

Eventually, governments will insist that all citizens have SIBs. You will not be able to use your bank, open home utility accounts, nor sign contracts unless fitted with a SIB, for ‘security purposes.’

One day, your car won't start and you won't be able to get a tow truck nor money to repair it because it your SIB chip is not working. The bank’s ATM won’t accept your SIB’s code, yet you see it accepting the SIB’s of other customers.

Your spouse will call from the grocery store, saying her chip also isn’t working and she can’t buy food for the kids. Once, stores accepted both cash and SIB’s, but by edict of the Federal Reserve System, no one may use cash nor credit cards any more. All for reasons of ‘national security’ of course.

After hours of begging a government agency for an answer, it will turn out that a 20 year old clerk in Scumpond, Mass., put a hold on your whole family’s chips because of an unpaid parking ticket attributed to your vehicle’s license plate number.



You shout that you have never even been to Scumpond, Mass., but it falls on deaf ears. You are told that you will have to take the matter up with Ms. Dumklerk in person. You telephone the Scumpond City Hall Department of Revenue from your neighbor's home, as your own phone was just shut off because of your “criminal status.” They tell you that Ms. Dumklerk is on a leave of absence, so you'll just have to be patient until she returns. No one else can help you, because Ms. Dumklerk encrypted access to all her files with her SIB code, which is against procedure, but they never had time to train her properly because they are underfunded and overworked.

You are told to call back in a four weeks, when Ms. Dumclerk might be back from the rain forest. Sorry.

Unable to buy or sell, you turn to family, friends and neighbors for aid. You need a car to get to work, food, diapers, milk, a kerosene heater for your house and candles, since the electric is shut off.

Your parents try to help, but they are immediately warned at the cash-less register in the store that they are not allowed to exceed their “fair share” in purchasing food and hardware for an elderly couple, which has already been calculated by the U.S. Department of Earth First. Sadly, they give you what little excess they had in their pantry, but it will only help your family for a few days. Ditto for your few friends and neighbors. After surrendering their small hordes, most give excuses, because they know what it means to fall under the scrutiny of the government for exceeding their “fair share” of the planet’s resources, as scientifically defined by U.C. Berkeley.

After two weeks, the baby is whining for milk, the children are begging for food and your wife can't stop crying. You no longer can use a phone to call Scumpond. Your neighbor just told you that his telephone is off limits, since you caused it to exceed the time allotment authorized by the U.S. Department of Communications Conservation. He is now himself under resource scrutiny.

Desperate, with no options left, you remember the old unregistered pistol buried beneath your bedroom floorboards. Never in your life did you think you would stoop this low, but the baby is now screaming non-stop.

Associated Press Trenton,
New Jersey TRENTON HERALD

Tuesday, November 25 - "A typically over-breeding Trenton terrorist, a father of six, was caught approaching an unnamed convenience store on Broad Street with a concealed weapon. Automated sensors sent an alarm to the Trenton Federal P.D. who immediately surrounded and arrested the terrorist. Fortunately, there were several TFPD agents in plainclothes within one block of the incident. As federal policy dictates, the terrorist’s name is being withheld for national security purposes. He will be sent to the island of Guam for a trial by a U.S. Military Tribunal to determine all his accomplices and then be executed. As is mandated by federal law, his immediate relatives will also be terminated to remove the contamination of their defective, terrorist genes from society. All else who are discovered to have aided this terrorist cell will be sent to U.S. Department of Education camps in Ohio. Several neighbors are already under arrest by counter-terrorism SWAT agents.

U.S. Senator Hiram Walker has called for a Joint Investigation Committee to stop terrorist violence, as seen in Trenton, by retrofitting all SIB’s with explosive charges so that federal police agents at the local level may interdict such crimes more immediately. He pointed out the multi-billion dollar savings to the tax payer if the practice of sending thousands of terrorists and their genetic carriers to Guam every month can be stopped because FPD units will have the great privilege to solve such problems locally with the new Explosive Subdermally Implanted Biochips (ESIB) on defective terrorist gene groups and their abettors. The Senator stated his supreme confidence that all straight-thinking citizens would welcome the new ESIBs in the name of national security. Senator Walker added that he anticipates no resistance by his constituents, because such objections would be unpatriotic and thus be in violation of the Amended USA P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act."

© 2004 - Jack Duggan - All Rights Reserved
"

Depressing isn't it, and all the public sees is that the chip can't be stolen and that the government says it's the right thing to do, and they're here to help, so obviously it must be a good, infallable idea:
Ronald Reagan said: 'The scariest words in the english language are: We're from the government, we're here to help'
And he was a president, that's gotta tell you something!

[cyclonite4]

The most depressing thing is that this is our likely destiny.

The satellites that 'help you when your lost', 'hunt you down when your a terrorist'.
The convenience provided by the chip's ATM abilities is countered by the liberation taken away.
The list goes on.

Unfortunately, everyones dependence on CCs makes this fate so true. :(

[cyclonite4]

The most depressing thing is that this is our likely destiny.

The satellites that 'help you when your lost', 'hunt you down when your a terrorist'.
The convenience provided by the chip's ATM abilities is countered by the liberation taken away.
The list goes on.

Unfortunately, everyones dependence on CCs makes this fate so true. :(

[cyclonite4]

The most depressing thing is that this is our likely destiny.

The satellites that 'help you when your lost', 'hunt you down when your a terrorist'.
The convenience provided by the chip's ATM abilities is countered by the liberation taken away.
The list goes on.

Unfortunately, everyones dependence on CCs makes this fate so true. :(

[Boomer]

I always asked how safe all this biometrics are. Wasn't there a movie where they peeled out the eye of a big boss, and held it in front of an iris scanner to get access to some facility? Same with cutting off a thumb to fool finger print sensors. Though I did read those sensors look for the pulsing blood, and do not work with cut-off fingers.

Now with these implanted RFID chips, all that criminals have to do is shoot you, get the chip out, dump your body somewhere deep. Then they get all your money from ATMs, and finally leave the country with a flight booked via SIB. This then explains your dissapearance... :eek:

First thing I would do is fry my implant with microwaves, or rip it out, and then go hiding.

[Boomer]

I always asked how safe all this biometrics are. Wasn't there a movie where they peeled out the eye of a big boss, and held it in front of an iris scanner to get access to some facility? Same with cutting off a thumb to fool finger print sensors. Though I did read those sensors look for the pulsing blood, and do not work with cut-off fingers.

Now with these implanted RFID chips, all that criminals have to do is shoot you, get the chip out, dump your body somewhere deep. Then they get all your money from ATMs, and finally leave the country with a flight booked via SIB. This then explains your dissapearance... :eek:

First thing I would do is fry my implant with microwaves, or rip it out, and then go hiding.

[Boomer]

I always asked how safe all this biometrics are. Wasn't there a movie where they peeled out the eye of a big boss, and held it in front of an iris scanner to get access to some facility? Same with cutting off a thumb to fool finger print sensors. Though I did read those sensors look for the pulsing blood, and do not work with cut-off fingers.

Now with these implanted RFID chips, all that criminals have to do is shoot you, get the chip out, dump your body somewhere deep. Then they get all your money from ATMs, and finally leave the country with a flight booked via SIB. This then explains your dissapearance... :eek:

First thing I would do is fry my implant with microwaves, or rip it out, and then go hiding.

[Silentnite]

Arnold Swartzenagger in The 6th Day, shot the one girls finger off and used it to gain access to the building. Although when she tried to go through it triggered an alarm because the same person was trying to go through.

The news is already leading me to feel doublepluse ungood about our government...

Caltech scientists have successfully decoded movement plans from the brains of awake humans. This work has direct application to the development of a neural prosthesis, a brain-machine interface that will give paralyzed people the ability to move and communicate simply using their thoughts.

Yes, This is a great development for little Timmy, who cant walk or move his arms. Not so good for those of us in front of telescreens.

[Silentnite]

Arnold Swartzenagger in The 6th Day, shot the one girls finger off and used it to gain access to the building. Although when she tried to go through it triggered an alarm because the same person was trying to go through.

The news is already leading me to feel doublepluse ungood about our government...

Caltech scientists have successfully decoded movement plans from the brains of awake humans. This work has direct application to the development of a neural prosthesis, a brain-machine interface that will give paralyzed people the ability to move and communicate simply using their thoughts.

Yes, This is a great development for little Timmy, who cant walk or move his arms. Not so good for those of us in front of telescreens.

[Silentnite]

Arnold Swartzenagger in The 6th Day, shot the one girls finger off and used it to gain access to the building. Although when she tried to go through it triggered an alarm because the same person was trying to go through.

The news is already leading me to feel doublepluse ungood about our government...

Caltech scientists have successfully decoded movement plans from the brains of awake humans. This work has direct application to the development of a neural prosthesis, a brain-machine interface that will give paralyzed people the ability to move and communicate simply using their thoughts.

Yes, This is a great development for little Timmy, who cant walk or move his arms. Not so good for those of us in front of telescreens.

[cyclonite4]

Sometime in April I will be recieving my 'free' SmartRider card (full of tracking mechanisms and what not). First thing I will be doing is ripping it open, I can then try and understand the purpose of each component inside and the ciruit in general, and see if I can modify it. Failing that, rip the electronics out of the card, execute them pyro-style :D , and fix the card for use as a concesssion card when paying cash.

[cyclonite4]

Sometime in April I will be recieving my 'free' SmartRider card (full of tracking mechanisms and what not). First thing I will be doing is ripping it open, I can then try and understand the purpose of each component inside and the ciruit in general, and see if I can modify it. Failing that, rip the electronics out of the card, execute them pyro-style :D , and fix the card for use as a concesssion card when paying cash.

[cyclonite4]

Sometime in April I will be recieving my 'free' SmartRider card (full of tracking mechanisms and what not). First thing I will be doing is ripping it open, I can then try and understand the purpose of each component inside and the ciruit in general, and see if I can modify it. Failing that, rip the electronics out of the card, execute them pyro-style :D , and fix the card for use as a concesssion card when paying cash.

[Kr36]

Whith that brain-machine interface that Silentnite mentioned, in the 50 year range, "thought crimes" will become a more literal reality. Useing your mind to control a machine is simply takeing information from the brain and having it interprited by a computer, but if that's the case, what would stop them from takeing information from the computer and puting it on the brain? It's still a ways off, but interesting, and kind of scary, to think about. They've already found that brain impulses aren't much different than zeros and ones, so they are already on their way to decoding how the mind thinks.
Once they know, they will insist, that for our own protection they must monitor our neural transactions for terroristic activity. If they can monitor and understand thoughts as they eventually will, then they can create them as well. You won't be able to tell your thoughts from their patriotic brainwashing.
I hope I'm right in saying that this is at least 50 to 100 years off and not in our lifetime.

[Kr36]

Whith that brain-machine interface that Silentnite mentioned, in the 50 year range, "thought crimes" will become a more literal reality. Useing your mind to control a machine is simply takeing information from the brain and having it interprited by a computer, but if that's the case, what would stop them from takeing information from the computer and puting it on the brain? It's still a ways off, but interesting, and kind of scary, to think about. They've already found that brain impulses aren't much different than zeros and ones, so they are already on their way to decoding how the mind thinks.
Once they know, they will insist, that for our own protection they must monitor our neural transactions for terroristic activity. If they can monitor and understand thoughts as they eventually will, then they can create them as well. You won't be able to tell your thoughts from their patriotic brainwashing.
I hope I'm right in saying that this is at least 50 to 100 years off and not in our lifetime.

[Kr36]

Whith that brain-machine interface that Silentnite mentioned, in the 50 year range, "thought crimes" will become a more literal reality. Useing your mind to control a machine is simply takeing information from the brain and having it interprited by a computer, but if that's the case, what would stop them from takeing information from the computer and puting it on the brain? It's still a ways off, but interesting, and kind of scary, to think about. They've already found that brain impulses aren't much different than zeros and ones, so they are already on their way to decoding how the mind thinks.
Once they know, they will insist, that for our own protection they must monitor our neural transactions for terroristic activity. If they can monitor and understand thoughts as they eventually will, then they can create them as well. You won't be able to tell your thoughts from their patriotic brainwashing.
I hope I'm right in saying that this is at least 50 to 100 years off and not in our lifetime.

[nbk2000]

Most biometrics aren't as 'tamper-proof' as the manufacturer makes them out to be.

The iris scanners, for instance, have been fooled by high-resolution photographs with a hole cut out where the black part is, where the attacker looks at the scanner while holding the picture up to his eye.

The scanner sees the iris of the photograph, while detecting the the pulsations of the attackers cornea, meeting the needed criteria to open the door. :p

Anything man devises to protect, someone will devise to defeat. :)

The difficulty of the defeat rises when you have to do it while under observation.

Trying to hold a picture up to your eye while going through the security portal at an airport isn't going to fly (pun!), so you'd have to be able to manufacture contacts with the desired iris pattern in them, which would be a very expensive proposition, though highly lucrative if you did it as part of an organized criminal operation for people who needed such a service.

I know my DNA was sampled when I was in prison, so I'm very aware of taking precautions against that risk, but I believe that the government is covertly collecting DNA from the citizens to build up a database without their knowledge.

One such method that comes to mind would be get it when you have to give your thumbprint for your drivers license.

There are devices intended for diabetic blood sampling that use a pulse from an IR laser to blast a hole through the skin of your finger, vaporizing a microliter of blood for sampling. The process is instantaneous and painless.

How simple would it be to install such a thing into the fingerprint scanner, combining the two forms of ID, along with your picture? Very. This would get the vast majority of people between 16-80 as almost everyone has a drivers license (not me! :p), and has to renew it every few years, keeping the database current.

All federal employees (military and civilian), children at health clinics or public hospitals and schools, and any number of other places.

Now, if they started in 2000, it'd be ready about 2040 or so for public announcement, as by then virtually everyone born after then would be in the system, and those who somehow slipped through the net would be too few or too old to worry about.

Now the SIB...they'll likely inject those into your body at birth, at random spots, so you'll never know where they are to be able to remove them. And they'd much more likely to be toxin-loaded, rather than explosive, as a tiny explosive charge would be harmless unless it was against a vital artery or nerve.

As stated, they'll start out as a 'safety and security' measure...to keep track of criminals and the elderly...then a 'convenience'...no need for cards or keys!...then a 'neccessity' as you'll almost have to have one because they'll be so ubiquious and such a hassle not to have (like credit and ID cards today)...then, finally, it'll be mandatory, as not having one implanted will be a crime, with only the highest levels of government officals being secretly exempted, though they'll likely make a great show of having [dummy] SIB's implanted to show how they're just 'plain ol' folk' :rolleyes: )

Though you could bet your life (and you will be) that the government leaders wouldn't have such things in them, as that'd mean they could be tracked and terminated by 'terrorist hackers!', which is all the excuse they need to exempt themselves from the SIB.

Cyclonite, try being a bit more scientific about the card dissection. Lots of scans or closeup photos of it as you carefully dissect it, so others can examine the circuitry.

I've found that, using a cheap eye loupe attached to a digital camcorder, that I can (fuzzily) see the machining marks on a machinist ruler that are ~0.001" wide. :) I bet a real triplet lens would be the shit!

[nbk2000]

Most biometrics aren't as 'tamper-proof' as the manufacturer makes them out to be.

The iris scanners, for instance, have been fooled by high-resolution photographs with a hole cut out where the black part is, where the attacker looks at the scanner while holding the picture up to his eye.

The scanner sees the iris of the photograph, while detecting the the pulsations of the attackers cornea, meeting the needed criteria to open the door. :p

Anything man devises to protect, someone will devise to defeat. :)

The difficulty of the defeat rises when you have to do it while under observation.

Trying to hold a picture up to your eye while going through the security portal at an airport isn't going to fly (pun!), so you'd have to be able to manufacture contacts with the desired iris pattern in them, which would be a very expensive proposition, though highly lucrative if you did it as part of an organized criminal operation for people who needed such a service.

I know my DNA was sampled when I was in prison, so I'm very aware of taking precautions against that risk, but I believe that the government is covertly collecting DNA from the citizens to build up a database without their knowledge.

One such method that comes to mind would be get it when you have to give your thumbprint for your drivers license.

There are devices intended for diabetic blood sampling that use a pulse from an IR laser to blast a hole through the skin of your finger, vaporizing a microliter of blood for sampling. The process is instantaneous and painless.

How simple would it be to install such a thing into the fingerprint scanner, combining the two forms of ID, along with your picture? Very. This would get the vast majority of people between 16-80 as almost everyone has a drivers license (not me! :p), and has to renew it every few years, keeping the database current.

All federal employees (military and civilian), children at health clinics or public hospitals and schools, and any number of other places.

Now, if they started in 2000, it'd be ready about 2040 or so for public announcement, as by then virtually everyone born after then would be in the system, and those who somehow slipped through the net would be too few or too old to worry about.

Now the SIB...they'll likely inject those into your body at birth, at random spots, so you'll never know where they are to be able to remove them. And they'd much more likely to be toxin-loaded, rather than explosive, as a tiny explosive charge would be harmless unless it was against a vital artery or nerve.

As stated, they'll start out as a 'safety and security' measure...to keep track of criminals and the elderly...then a 'convenience'...no need for cards or keys!...then a 'neccessity' as you'll almost have to have one because they'll be so ubiquious and such a hassle not to have (like credit and ID cards today)...then, finally, it'll be mandatory, as not having one implanted will be a crime, with only the highest levels of government officals being secretly exempted, though they'll likely make a great show of having [dummy] SIB's implanted to show how they're just 'plain ol' folk' :rolleyes: )

Though you could bet your life (and you will be) that the government leaders wouldn't have such things in them, as that'd mean they could be tracked and terminated by 'terrorist hackers!', which is all the excuse they need to exempt themselves from the SIB.

Cyclonite, try being a bit more scientific about the card dissection. Lots of scans or closeup photos of it as you carefully dissect it, so others can examine the circuitry.

I've found that, using a cheap eye loupe attached to a digital camcorder, that I can (fuzzily) see the machining marks on a machinist ruler that are ~0.001" wide. :) I bet a real triplet lens would be the shit!

[nbk2000]

Most biometrics aren't as 'tamper-proof' as the manufacturer makes them out to be.

The iris scanners, for instance, have been fooled by high-resolution photographs with a hole cut out where the black part is, where the attacker looks at the scanner while holding the picture up to his eye.

The scanner sees the iris of the photograph, while detecting the the pulsations of the attackers cornea, meeting the needed criteria to open the door. :p

Anything man devises to protect, someone will devise to defeat. :)

The difficulty of the defeat rises when you have to do it while under observation.

Trying to hold a picture up to your eye while going through the security portal at an airport isn't going to fly (pun!), so you'd have to be able to manufacture contacts with the desired iris pattern in them, which would be a very expensive proposition, though highly lucrative if you did it as part of an organized criminal operation for people who needed such a service.

I know my DNA was sampled when I was in prison, so I'm very aware of taking precautions against that risk, but I believe that the government is covertly collecting DNA from the citizens to build up a database without their knowledge.

One such method that comes to mind would be get it when you have to give your thumbprint for your drivers license.

There are devices intended for diabetic blood sampling that use a pulse from an IR laser to blast a hole through the skin of your finger, vaporizing a microliter of blood for sampling. The process is instantaneous and painless.

How simple would it be to install such a thing into the fingerprint scanner, combining the two forms of ID, along with your picture? Very. This would get the vast majority of people between 16-80 as almost everyone has a drivers license (not me! :p), and has to renew it every few years, keeping the database current.

All federal employees (military and civilian), children at health clinics or public hospitals and schools, and any number of other places.

Now, if they started in 2000, it'd be ready about 2040 or so for public announcement, as by then virtually everyone born after then would be in the system, and those who somehow slipped through the net would be too few or too old to worry about.

Now the SIB...they'll likely inject those into your body at birth, at random spots, so you'll never know where they are to be able to remove them. And they'd much more likely to be toxin-loaded, rather than explosive, as a tiny explosive charge would be harmless unless it was against a vital artery or nerve.

As stated, they'll start out as a 'safety and security' measure...to keep track of criminals and the elderly...then a 'convenience'...no need for cards or keys!...then a 'neccessity' as you'll almost have to have one because they'll be so ubiquious and such a hassle not to have (like credit and ID cards today)...then, finally, it'll be mandatory, as not having one implanted will be a crime, with only the highest levels of government officals being secretly exempted, though they'll likely make a great show of having [dummy] SIB's implanted to show how they're just 'plain ol' folk' :rolleyes: )

Though you could bet your life (and you will be) that the government leaders wouldn't have such things in them, as that'd mean they could be tracked and terminated by 'terrorist hackers!', which is all the excuse they need to exempt themselves from the SIB.

Cyclonite, try being a bit more scientific about the card dissection. Lots of scans or closeup photos of it as you carefully dissect it, so others can examine the circuitry.

I've found that, using a cheap eye loupe attached to a digital camcorder, that I can (fuzzily) see the machining marks on a machinist ruler that are ~0.001" wide. :) I bet a real triplet lens would be the shit!

[cyclonite4]

Sorry about the lack of scientific procedure, but currently my thoughts of it are clouded with a subtle anger. :)

Natrually, I'll take photographs (for people interest, and to save others the effort of ripping them open).

On the subject of defeating such mechanisms, I wonder how one could defeat/surpass RFID. I don't know anything about it, but would it be transmitting some kind of constant code? If one could change this 'code', you could use someone elses identity. But of course, I'm no RFID expert. :p

[cyclonite4]

Sorry about the lack of scientific procedure, but currently my thoughts of it are clouded with a subtle anger. :)

Natrually, I'll take photographs (for people interest, and to save others the effort of ripping them open).

On the subject of defeating such mechanisms, I wonder how one could defeat/surpass RFID. I don't know anything about it, but would it be transmitting some kind of constant code? If one could change this 'code', you could use someone elses identity. But of course, I'm no RFID expert. :p

[cyclonite4]

Sorry about the lack of scientific procedure, but currently my thoughts of it are clouded with a subtle anger. :)

Natrually, I'll take photographs (for people interest, and to save others the effort of ripping them open).

On the subject of defeating such mechanisms, I wonder how one could defeat/surpass RFID. I don't know anything about it, but would it be transmitting some kind of constant code? If one could change this 'code', you could use someone elses identity. But of course, I'm no RFID expert. :p

[akinrog]

A faraday cage is able to prevent RF signals from being transmitted and received. But a human body size faraday cage is not feasable, unless you do not want the motility. :(

[akinrog]

A faraday cage is able to prevent RF signals from being transmitted and received. But a human body size faraday cage is not feasable, unless you do not want the motility. :(

[akinrog]

A faraday cage is able to prevent RF signals from being transmitted and received. But a human body size faraday cage is not feasable, unless you do not want the motility. :(

[cyclonite4]

A farady cage... I remember a current afairs report about a women who could 'hear and feel' radio signals, and had to sleep in a bed surrounded with a faraday cage.

I'm sure a person walking around with a cage around them isn't going to attract unwanted attention. :p

[cyclonite4]

A farady cage... I remember a current afairs report about a women who could 'hear and feel' radio signals, and had to sleep in a bed surrounded with a faraday cage.

I'm sure a person walking around with a cage around them isn't going to attract unwanted attention. :p

[cyclonite4]

A farady cage... I remember a current afairs report about a women who could 'hear and feel' radio signals, and had to sleep in a bed surrounded with a faraday cage.

I'm sure a person walking around with a cage around them isn't going to attract unwanted attention. :p

[Jacks Complete]

The jammer thread relates to this quite well. RFID works by sending a pulse out to the chips, which respond in turn to each pulse. There is some kind of system to determine the responses and from the encoding you get the ID. The jammer works by always responding, which means that the signal from the real chips are drowned out. I would have to look it up to provide full details, but you get the idea.

A way to destroy the RFID is to pop the (banknotes?) in the microwave for a few seconds. They don't like that much power.

(Yes, there are plans to put an RFID in every banknote, for tracking purposes. "Who shall I mug? He's got $5000 in his sock! Great!")

[Jacks Complete]

The jammer thread relates to this quite well. RFID works by sending a pulse out to the chips, which respond in turn to each pulse. There is some kind of system to determine the responses and from the encoding you get the ID. The jammer works by always responding, which means that the signal from the real chips are drowned out. I would have to look it up to provide full details, but you get the idea.

A way to destroy the RFID is to pop the (banknotes?) in the microwave for a few seconds. They don't like that much power.

(Yes, there are plans to put an RFID in every banknote, for tracking purposes. "Who shall I mug? He's got $5000 in his sock! Great!")

[Jacks Complete]

The jammer thread relates to this quite well. RFID works by sending a pulse out to the chips, which respond in turn to each pulse. There is some kind of system to determine the responses and from the encoding you get the ID. The jammer works by always responding, which means that the signal from the real chips are drowned out. I would have to look it up to provide full details, but you get the idea.

A way to destroy the RFID is to pop the (banknotes?) in the microwave for a few seconds. They don't like that much power.

(Yes, there are plans to put an RFID in every banknote, for tracking purposes. "Who shall I mug? He's got $5000 in his sock! Great!")

[cyclonite4]

I would have guessed that microwaving the RFID card would have... 'cooked' the circuitry. :p

What I need to figure is a way to create a 'fake id', so not only can I get free transport (fringe benefit :) ), but maintain a degree of liberty/anonymity.

RFID in banknotes? I would agree that it calls for more crime than prevention thereof.

[cyclonite4]

I would have guessed that microwaving the RFID card would have... 'cooked' the circuitry. :p

What I need to figure is a way to create a 'fake id', so not only can I get free transport (fringe benefit :) ), but maintain a degree of liberty/anonymity.

RFID in banknotes? I would agree that it calls for more crime than prevention thereof.

[cyclonite4]

I would have guessed that microwaving the RFID card would have... 'cooked' the circuitry. :p

What I need to figure is a way to create a 'fake id', so not only can I get free transport (fringe benefit :) ), but maintain a degree of liberty/anonymity.

RFID in banknotes? I would agree that it calls for more crime than prevention thereof.

[me234]

I hate reading the paper, pisses me off every time:
Title: Barcoded Babies Safer
Gist: They want to 'barcode' (somehow) sperm and egg cells when using them for IVF (in vitro fertilization), they say it'll prevent mix ups that cause the wrong (somebody else's) egg being used or shit like that.
Next step to the crackdown (a.k.a. we-be-fucked-land): 'Oh, we better barcode the actual babies as well, I mean come on, those wrist things they have put on at birth have been known to slip off occasionally, so we'd better barcode them proper to prevent that'
Fuck.
What kind of population thinks this shit is a good idea??
I was at my friend's house, and the conversation with his parents got around to crime, you know what they said, they think we need MORE cameras!!
Yes I'm sure it does help with crime (maybe not, look at London), but these people are not concerned with they're privacy, what the hell?
The news the other night showed a piece on how the cops caught this dude who snatched some ladies handbag. The presenter said something to the effect of it was the good fortune that the camera operator was alert at that time and could track the purse-snatcher with the camera to see where he hid, so thankfully the police found him in only 5 minutes.
Fuck! I'm thinking Farenheit 451 again.
Now the whole fucking population believes that these fucking privacy invaders are good for them.

This is not going to end well, it is up to us to do something.
And if we denounce the use of cameras, the world will say, 'Oh, but you guys make bombs, you are the criminals, that's why you don't want them'
Well yes, SOME of us may be criminals, as in all walks of life, but the large majority are not, we just dream of this shit.

To reiterate:
THIS WILL NOT END WELL FOR US
Fuckin' barcoded cells, that's tiny, they'll be able to barcode us in our sleep and it'll be too small for us to notice.

[me234]

I hate reading the paper, pisses me off every time:
Title: Barcoded Babies Safer
Gist: They want to 'barcode' (somehow) sperm and egg cells when using them for IVF (in vitro fertilization), they say it'll prevent mix ups that cause the wrong (somebody else's) egg being used or shit like that.
Next step to the crackdown (a.k.a. we-be-fucked-land): 'Oh, we better barcode the actual babies as well, I mean come on, those wrist things they have put on at birth have been known to slip off occasionally, so we'd better barcode them proper to prevent that'
Fuck.
What kind of population thinks this shit is a good idea??
I was at my friend's house, and the conversation with his parents got around to crime, you know what they said, they think we need MORE cameras!!
Yes I'm sure it does help with crime (maybe not, look at London), but these people are not concerned with they're privacy, what the hell?
The news the other night showed a piece on how the cops caught this dude who snatched some ladies handbag. The presenter said something to the effect of it was the good fortune that the camera operator was alert at that time and could track the purse-snatcher with the camera to see where he hid, so thankfully the police found him in only 5 minutes.
Fuck! I'm thinking Farenheit 451 again.
Now the whole fucking population believes that these fucking privacy invaders are good for them.

This is not going to end well, it is up to us to do something.
And if we denounce the use of cameras, the world will say, 'Oh, but you guys make bombs, you are the criminals, that's why you don't want them'
Well yes, SOME of us may be criminals, as in all walks of life, but the large majority are not, we just dream of this shit.

To reiterate:
THIS WILL NOT END WELL FOR US
Fuckin' barcoded cells, that's tiny, they'll be able to barcode us in our sleep and it'll be too small for us to notice.

[me234]

I hate reading the paper, pisses me off every time:
Title: Barcoded Babies Safer
Gist: They want to 'barcode' (somehow) sperm and egg cells when using them for IVF (in vitro fertilization), they say it'll prevent mix ups that cause the wrong (somebody else's) egg being used or shit like that.
Next step to the crackdown (a.k.a. we-be-fucked-land): 'Oh, we better barcode the actual babies as well, I mean come on, those wrist things they have put on at birth have been known to slip off occasionally, so we'd better barcode them proper to prevent that'
Fuck.
What kind of population thinks this shit is a good idea??
I was at my friend's house, and the conversation with his parents got around to crime, you know what they said, they think we need MORE cameras!!
Yes I'm sure it does help with crime (maybe not, look at London), but these people are not concerned with they're privacy, what the hell?
The news the other night showed a piece on how the cops caught this dude who snatched some ladies handbag. The presenter said something to the effect of it was the good fortune that the camera operator was alert at that time and could track the purse-snatcher with the camera to see where he hid, so thankfully the police found him in only 5 minutes.
Fuck! I'm thinking Farenheit 451 again.
Now the whole fucking population believes that these fucking privacy invaders are good for them.

This is not going to end well, it is up to us to do something.
And if we denounce the use of cameras, the world will say, 'Oh, but you guys make bombs, you are the criminals, that's why you don't want them'
Well yes, SOME of us may be criminals, as in all walks of life, but the large majority are not, we just dream of this shit.

To reiterate:
THIS WILL NOT END WELL FOR US
Fuckin' barcoded cells, that's tiny, they'll be able to barcode us in our sleep and it'll be too small for us to notice.

[cyclonite4]

It's horrible, I agree. I was having a similar argument related to SIBs. One idiot couldn't stress the point enough how 'convenient' the system would be. I say "What about privacy", they say "If your not doing anything wrong you don't need privacy". Idiots!

I have that smartrider card now, but it is just as thin as the regular card, and virtually impossible to dissect. I also did a bit of googling on the subject, and apparently the device is thinner than paper, and consists mostly of an antenna. The circuitry itself is hidden in a black, resin-coated chip, so dissecting is pointless anyway. The only option is to fry the chip within.
I also found form googling, that companies are pushing to put RFID in place of barcodes, thus every product can be traced by the ultra-thin RFID card within. The cops could pull you over if you have a suspicious product combination in your car!

What a wonderful world we have to look forward to. :(

[cyclonite4]

It's horrible, I agree. I was having a similar argument related to SIBs. One idiot couldn't stress the point enough how 'convenient' the system would be. I say "What about privacy", they say "If your not doing anything wrong you don't need privacy". Idiots!

I have that smartrider card now, but it is just as thin as the regular card, and virtually impossible to dissect. I also did a bit of googling on the subject, and apparently the device is thinner than paper, and consists mostly of an antenna. The circuitry itself is hidden in a black, resin-coated chip, so dissecting is pointless anyway. The only option is to fry the chip within.
I also found form googling, that companies are pushing to put RFID in place of barcodes, thus every product can be traced by the ultra-thin RFID card within. The cops could pull you over if you have a suspicious product combination in your car!

What a wonderful world we have to look forward to. :(

[cyclonite4]

It's horrible, I agree. I was having a similar argument related to SIBs. One idiot couldn't stress the point enough how 'convenient' the system would be. I say "What about privacy", they say "If your not doing anything wrong you don't need privacy". Idiots!

I have that smartrider card now, but it is just as thin as the regular card, and virtually impossible to dissect. I also did a bit of googling on the subject, and apparently the device is thinner than paper, and consists mostly of an antenna. The circuitry itself is hidden in a black, resin-coated chip, so dissecting is pointless anyway. The only option is to fry the chip within.
I also found form googling, that companies are pushing to put RFID in place of barcodes, thus every product can be traced by the ultra-thin RFID card within. The cops could pull you over if you have a suspicious product combination in your car!

What a wonderful world we have to look forward to. :(

[tmp]

NBK2000, I wish in the old days of programming radar jammers, that we had
someone like you on hand. I really do. I programmed data to fuck enemy
radar - a job which I loved BTW ! Someone such as yourself would have been
a valuable tool for the DoD. You might have been the ultimate ECM guru !

[tmp]

NBK2000, I wish in the old days of programming radar jammers, that we had
someone like you on hand. I really do. I programmed data to fuck enemy
radar - a job which I loved BTW ! Someone such as yourself would have been
a valuable tool for the DoD. You might have been the ultimate ECM guru !

[tmp]

NBK2000, I wish in the old days of programming radar jammers, that we had
someone like you on hand. I really do. I programmed data to fuck enemy
radar - a job which I loved BTW ! Someone such as yourself would have been
a valuable tool for the DoD. You might have been the ultimate ECM guru !

[Jacks Complete]

From my experiance, the govt. & big industry hate free thought, unless there is a desperate war on. Then it still takes someone in power to stand up and say "this isn't working, let's listen to the loons like Mr. Gatling, the Wright brothers, etc. so we can get ahead and win this!"

The aeroplane would still be a toy if it weren't for the First World War - in 11 years it went from the odd spotter plane and balloon, to heavy bomber formation flying, and fighter planes straffing trenches and dogfighting.

The same would never happen today, as it would be killed in committee. Even if the other side were doing it, they wouldn't believe it could be done. Once it was proven clearly, they would still doubt that it could be done, and so kill it with "feasibility studies" and then, if it didn't go away, it would be underfunded.

Keep learning, keep thinking - it is the only way.

[Jacks Complete]

From my experiance, the govt. & big industry hate free thought, unless there is a desperate war on. Then it still takes someone in power to stand up and say "this isn't working, let's listen to the loons like Mr. Gatling, the Wright brothers, etc. so we can get ahead and win this!"

The aeroplane would still be a toy if it weren't for the First World War - in 11 years it went from the odd spotter plane and balloon, to heavy bomber formation flying, and fighter planes straffing trenches and dogfighting.

The same would never happen today, as it would be killed in committee. Even if the other side were doing it, they wouldn't believe it could be done. Once it was proven clearly, they would still doubt that it could be done, and so kill it with "feasibility studies" and then, if it didn't go away, it would be underfunded.

Keep learning, keep thinking - it is the only way.

[Jacks Complete]

From my experiance, the govt. & big industry hate free thought, unless there is a desperate war on. Then it still takes someone in power to stand up and say "this isn't working, let's listen to the loons like Mr. Gatling, the Wright brothers, etc. so we can get ahead and win this!"

The aeroplane would still be a toy if it weren't for the First World War - in 11 years it went from the odd spotter plane and balloon, to heavy bomber formation flying, and fighter planes straffing trenches and dogfighting.

The same would never happen today, as it would be killed in committee. Even if the other side were doing it, they wouldn't believe it could be done. Once it was proven clearly, they would still doubt that it could be done, and so kill it with "feasibility studies" and then, if it didn't go away, it would be underfunded.

Keep learning, keep thinking - it is the only way.

[elementc]

Megalomania, your first post in this thread really made me think of Halflife 2 what with the one Free Man comment.

If you ask me, we are already in the process of having the rope lowered around our necks.

[elementc]

Megalomania, your first post in this thread really made me think of Halflife 2 what with the one Free Man comment.

If you ask me, we are already in the process of having the rope lowered around our necks.

[elementc]

Megalomania, your first post in this thread really made me think of Halflife 2 what with the one Free Man comment.

If you ask me, we are already in the process of having the rope lowered around our necks.

[Sundried]

Wanted to ask that since some time and I think it fits here quite good:
Is anyone of you owning a selfmade ghillie suit ?



Yeah I've made several for different terrain. I started with a "Deer netting" frame consisting of arms, legs, torso, and hood. I began tying strips of fabric to the net frame and ended up with a very effective suit. I eventually added some buckles and tie downs to keep everything nice and tight while on the run.

[Sundried]

Wanted to ask that since some time and I think it fits here quite good:
Is anyone of you owning a selfmade ghillie suit ?



Yeah I've made several for different terrain. I started with a "Deer netting" frame consisting of arms, legs, torso, and hood. I began tying strips of fabric to the net frame and ended up with a very effective suit. I eventually added some buckles and tie downs to keep everything nice and tight while on the run.

[Sundried]

Wanted to ask that since some time and I think it fits here quite good:
Is anyone of you owning a selfmade ghillie suit ?



Yeah I've made several for different terrain. I started with a "Deer netting" frame consisting of arms, legs, torso, and hood. I began tying strips of fabric to the net frame and ended up with a very effective suit. I eventually added some buckles and tie downs to keep everything nice and tight while on the run.

[Davo]

Judges don't have freedom to sentence people to community service if they believe the conviction unjust, that's what mandatory sentencing laws are for. Even if they wanted to let you go because the law is unfair, they still have to give you 25-to-Life (or whatever), because otherwise the government gets on their ass as being 'soft on crime'!

In Australia, the opposite was true about mandatory prison sentences. Some states had laws that enforced compulsory prison sentences for those who have commited crimes (theft, assualt etc) three times (anyone that stupid deserves to go to prison) but a bunch of do-gooders (aboriginal activists, the Greens) rallied and opposed them claiming they somehow unfairly target ethnics and aborigines :eek: and the laws were repealed.

The streets in Australian cities are no longer safe, ethnic and gang crime is completely out of control and worse yet we have almost no provisions for self-defence. State police have had their funding cut yet an ever increasing amount keeps going to the federal police and ASIO. I've personally been mugged by an ethnic gang and the police couldn't do fuck all about it.

At least in this country you'll probably get mugged, bashed and anally raped by a gang of ethnics but we'll be "safe" from terrorists. Think theres a chance of a plot by the government to covertly increase petty crime rates for an excuse to spend more money on "surveillance" and the like to increase their grip on power, but not seriously tackling the crimes that screw people's lives.

[Davo]

Judges don't have freedom to sentence people to community service if they believe the conviction unjust, that's what mandatory sentencing laws are for. Even if they wanted to let you go because the law is unfair, they still have to give you 25-to-Life (or whatever), because otherwise the government gets on their ass as being 'soft on crime'!

In Australia, the opposite was true about mandatory prison sentences. Some states had laws that enforced compulsory prison sentences for those who have commited crimes (theft, assualt etc) three times (anyone that stupid deserves to go to prison) but a bunch of do-gooders (aboriginal activists, the Greens) rallied and opposed them claiming they somehow unfairly target ethnics and aborigines :eek: and the laws were repealed.

The streets in Australian cities are no longer safe, ethnic and gang crime is completely out of control and worse yet we have almost no provisions for self-defence. State police have had their funding cut yet an ever increasing amount keeps going to the federal police and ASIO. I've personally been mugged by an ethnic gang and the police couldn't do fuck all about it.

At least in this country you'll probably get mugged, bashed and anally raped by a gang of ethnics but we'll be "safe" from terrorists. Think theres a chance of a plot by the government to covertly increase petty crime rates for an excuse to spend more money on "surveillance" and the like to increase their grip on power, but not seriously tackling the crimes that screw people's lives.

[Davo]

Judges don't have freedom to sentence people to community service if they believe the conviction unjust, that's what mandatory sentencing laws are for. Even if they wanted to let you go because the law is unfair, they still have to give you 25-to-Life (or whatever), because otherwise the government gets on their ass as being 'soft on crime'!

In Australia, the opposite was true about mandatory prison sentences. Some states had laws that enforced compulsory prison sentences for those who have commited crimes (theft, assualt etc) three times (anyone that stupid deserves to go to prison) but a bunch of do-gooders (aboriginal activists, the Greens) rallied and opposed them claiming they somehow unfairly target ethnics and aborigines :eek: and the laws were repealed.

The streets in Australian cities are no longer safe, ethnic and gang crime is completely out of control and worse yet we have almost no provisions for self-defence. State police have had their funding cut yet an ever increasing amount keeps going to the federal police and ASIO. I've personally been mugged by an ethnic gang and the police couldn't do fuck all about it.

At least in this country you'll probably get mugged, bashed and anally raped by a gang of ethnics but we'll be "safe" from terrorists. Think theres a chance of a plot by the government to covertly increase petty crime rates for an excuse to spend more money on "surveillance" and the like to increase their grip on power, but not seriously tackling the crimes that screw people's lives.

[me234]

Davo raises a good question, how many of you read about how your respective governments are cutting back on police numbers and funding, yet are installing huge numbers of new surveillance systems around cities? I know mine is. A government screwing 'their' people over to give themselves more control? Just crazy enough to be right.

Now the real reason for my post: I think we should start thinking about what events might lead to the Crackdown beginning; what signs there might be that we can use as indicators of when it'll start.

Any ideas guys?

So far not nearly enough ideas are coming to mind. One that does however is the sudden (over ~ a month I'd guess) disappearance of members from a certain country.
The problem then becomes, with our current access problems, that I myself am currently experiencing, how can we tell when members stop coming here?
Also, I don't think anybody here logs in according to any kind of routine, and I also suspect that the suggestion that they log in according to a pattern so that we could keep tabs on them might be met with more than a little scorn.

The other idea I had was that people start a buddy system, wherein everybody involved has at least two other member's e-mail addresses, and a friend. They way it'd work would be that this friend e-mails these to fellow forumites should the member in question get dragged into a police station for questioning (or such) for anything other than a parking fine. This would allow other members the ability to know of others' situations, so that they can judge for themselves when they should take the appropriate courses of action.

This raises two other questions:1 - What ARE the appropriate courses of actions one can take when one decides the Crackdown is occurring? And
2 - How do you guys think the Crackdown is going to occur? Slowly, quickly, disguised as something else, will they publicise what you're being dragged away for, or will it be a military tribunal with no lawyers and no public reason for arrest?
If you guys don't feel comfortable replying about the first question I'll understand, after all, who wants to tip the G-boys about what you're going to do when they knock on your door late one night. But I feel that the second question is important, we should air as many possibilities as possible, that way we will be able to more readily identify what is happening when it does start.

And if possible, reply any old opinion, doesn't have to be long, bear in mind, this Crackdown is coming, and it'll be here sooner than later, so the quicker we can learn about it the better.

[Jacks Complete]

So go to the archive and save a (encrypted) copy. Read up on the forum on everything you can think of. You can always email a few people on here via the emails they use, and use them as your limtmus paper.

These days it is near impossible to skip out and run away if you have anything. This is why the system is set up to give you stuff, even if you are a scheme-y soap dodger - if you don't have anything to take away, how can you be properly punished?

The crackdown will come sneaking up on you like a frog being cooked in a slow heated pot of water. If you were dropped into the shit all at once, you might jump out of the pot. But, by slowly turning up the heat, you'll happily swim around until you die, never noticing just how hot things are getting. ;)

++++++++

Sorry to hijack your post, JC, but I can't get the fuckin' reply window to work for me in this section.


You freedoms are dying the death of a thousand cuts...no one cut is fatal, or even very painful...but the totallity of them will kill you sure as a bullet in your head.

This is what modern governments do...slowly taking away your freedoms, a day at a time...this keeps the 'citizens' from noticing what's going on and revolting.

As for a copy of the Forum, how about 'The Hitman' doing something with the twice-daily updated copies of the Forum that he bragged about having...like SHARING them with people via Bit-Torrent or Kazaa or such? But that means he'd have to stop being a CUNT LEECH and being a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER...too much to ask for, I know. :p

[Alexires]

I'm rather new around here (as you have probably guessed).

To keep tabs on members, why don't we have a thread in the Water Cooler that members post a reply on every once in a while (whatever can be deemed as regular) and have it so that one member keeps tabs on 2 other members by checking that thread every once in a while?

That way, there is no need for being close (geographically) to the person, and we should be able to see if people start "dissapearing".

Ofcourse, if someone was going to be unable to post here for a while, just list the time and reason (vaguely, such as no internet, or holiday or something like that).

Just a random idea. What do you think?

[John Shuman]

I agree that there is definitely a BIG BROTHER/tyranical element in our governments. But I have a question about the capabilities: While THEY can certainly gather enormous amounts of data can they process, interpret, and remember it to use it? How many of you get apparently targetted mails (e or snail) that don't really pertain to you? How many misataken identity stops or arrests have you heard of Police doing? Someone has to make a decision on how to process the data in order to use it as a tool for tyrany. Unless I am not aware of a processing capability they have, in which case do let me know.

[quicksilver]

In truth I honestly believe it's much too late in the game.
EVERY TIME anyone logs on to a site like this one or a "milita" or preparedness oriented site. It's logged somewhere. ....People, we are REMEMBERING issues like the ECHLON project, etc. It's actually ancient history. What's going on NOW?
I am quite sure that tracking and name recording is SO FAR BEYOND what we realize that it's really not going to make a difference if we stop using credit cards or take steps in the general direction of anonymity. ALL OF OUR NAMES ARE ALREADY ON MANY LISTS. That point is moot.
I know for a fact that my name and fingerprints and everything about me are recorded. That is not really a major concern.
Dear Lord; it's ridiclous the even think that one has "slipped through the cracks": the tracking of people is so insurmountably vast that our grandparents were the ones that first were in someone's "file" somewhere.....
Have you ever bought a firearm? Have you ever been a member of a shooting range, gun club, student group, pyrotechnics club? Bought any chemicals (remember the CPSC "letter")? Have you ever bought any books from Amazon or have subscriptions to certain publications? The question that "big brother" would ask is whether that person is a threat or not. If the answer is yes then that person will have problems, period.
At this point in time [I truely believe this], if that person is not deemed a threat, they will not be bothered. We live in a nation with 270 million people (USA), thus resources need to be alocated to specific areas but information gathering per se' is open continiously.
The crux of the issue is; what is a "threat" or deemed worthy of further investigation? And therein lays the most frighting issues because there is a collection of subjective elements.

[kleptophobiac]

We live in a nation with 270 million people (USA), thus resources need to be alocated to specific areas but information gathering per se' is open continiously.

Information gathering has always been open continuously, but new technology is making that scary. Everything is logged to an electronic database, everything from purchase records to traffic infractions to library records, etc. As computational power increases, database handling software becomes more sophisticated, and government agencies converge information, that file becames more persistent and more easily accessible to every non-prole.

Technology makes it scarier yet. With search engines becoming more flexible, more capable, and more able to handle vast quantities of data - the government will no longer have to worry about tracking you. They'll be able to "google" a profile and get a list of names about which to be concerned. New talks of a national ID card (at least in the US, other countries already have them) make this even closer to a reality. The national ID card will be used for identification and tracking, exactly what a free person should want to avoid.

Now that terrorism is up front and considered a "huge" problem, governments are capitalizing on fear. Constituents are allowing, even encouraging, agency collaboration and consolidation of data. They demand the convenience of RFID walk-out-the-door-without-seeing-the-cashier shopping. They demand the convenience of endless credit cards. They demand the false sense of security of endless surveillance.

The net result is frightening. The rope hasn't just been coming down, it's been tightening.

[tmp]

Quicksilver, for me that's all of the above, in addition to once having held
security clearance and having been busted on gun violations. One of my
roomates and I now run an FTP. Surely that has drawn some attention.
Unless the government gets totally paranoid, most of us are probably
nothing more than a pain-in-the-ass as far as they're concerned. I'm not
going to worry about it for now but I will keep eyes and ears wide open.

[Kamisama]

I'm sure that there are crime organizations who are a lot more powerful than all of us combined. That being said, I'm sure governments are concerned with those guys first because they could probably recruit better in a time of crisis. I'm going to assume though since we are on the side of good, or just keeping ourselves safe, we would want to fear the crime organizations and the government. You have to remember the government isn't the only thing to worry about. I assume the crime organizations would probably find a way of coming after us and the government at the same time. Seems like a triangle. Always a triangle system to things, ey?

I fear the Terminators more than the government. :(

I did some stats once, I think about 40% of America would be able to defend itself incase there was an attack. I added in people with mental disorders and so forth, I could be seriously flawed on this though. I'll have to redo the stats sometime.

[warmage]

if you or i were truly paranoid about the ass hats and the controller types.
They might just be monitoring this and a host of other sites with a similar type of scientific bent.
Just to grab up the radical hellraisers....you might think so.
But lets say that the people wanting to turn this republic into a new roman empire....it happened there why not here....are not quite as dumb as you think.
Lets say that they realize that the kind and caliber of minds that can handle chemistry/math/physics,ect
are a valuable resource...not to be squandered.
So when the time of the rope comes...they grab your dumb young ass up,and make you an offer you can't refuse.
Like 30yrs at hard labor in a "re-education camp" or you go to work for one of there "civilian contractors"
What the Columbians call plumbo de oro....take the money or take a bullet.
"We know where your family is", and so on....yes it works! The KGB and the various manufacturing soviets proved that.

The known whereabouts of scientificly educated slaves is easy to develop.
The controllers turn you over to a civilian contractor type like Kerr-Magee,Lockheed,Imperial Chemical, and so on....and they have a person who
can be put to work in a lab or manufacturing facility.

Oh, they will maintain the fiction that you are an employee...pay,health insurance for you and your family,even a 401K and profit sharing.
But you are a scientific slave for sure.....haul off and punch out a supervisor,and you and your family go to a gulag.

They might just have a soft spot for Mr.Diamond at the Piketon,OH uranium enrichment plant....Kerr-Magee.
Or send NBK to the Pitkiney Arsenel in NJ....to the TNT casting line!
Of course i could be pulling this shit out of my ass....stranger things have happened...but i woulden't put just such an action
out of the reach of this or any other government....something to think about.

[Jacks Complete]

Lets say that they realize that the kind and caliber of minds that can handle chemistry/math/physics,ect
are a valuable resource...not to be squandered.
I doubt any of us would object! Paid to play with destructive toys... Can I start tomorrow? Heck, I'll get dressed and start *now*...

Sadly, I don't think it's likely, but if I had my way, this would happen. I wouldn't send people to the gulag, though, if they didn't want the job, I'd know they weren't the people I wanted for the job, since those who would want it would be biting my hand off to get it! I've worked in a place where there was no management, and everything got done well and on time. I've also worked in a place with 15 levels of management and no clue. The first one was for free, and was far better than the second, which had a fair salary.

[Chris The Great]

I'd prefer that to fighting the government. Lets face it, most sheeple would be all too happy to submit completely to big brother. If we can escape that and get paid to do what we enjoy, who is objecting? Everybody wins.

However, I think the government is most likely to label us as "terrorists" than to try and recruit us.
And, I would not be recruited if they threatened me.

Perhaps we should compile a list of all government employees families/friends, with pics, names, location etc, and so if they threaten us, we can come right back at them with the same threat. I'm sure that would stop them dead in their tracks, no government official would move against us if they knew we could do the exact same thing to them. Sure, it wouldn't be playing "nice" but neither was the KGB.

[me234]

Chris, my man, that is the single best idea I've heard all year. And even though the year isn't very old yet, I still fucking love the idea.
OK, so now if anyone has another idea on how we can actually go about collecting the family info Chris has kindly suggested we collect, I'd really appreciate it.
I get the feeling phoning up government employees and asking their addresses wouldn't work. Fair enough, if we knew their phone numbers and names we could just grab a phone directory. But I'm at a loss as to where one could just find a list of G-boy names.
Yes I am quite ignorant, but that still does not change the fact that I'm pretty stupid and don't know where they might publish a list like this. Suggestions please?

[Chris The Great]

We will need a program to compare names and phone numbers with the information available in a phone book, since the task is quite impossible to do by hand unless you had a team of people working non stop for years.

The program would also need to be able to harvest information from sites we select. For example,
http://sunset.ci.sf.ca.us/dtisbook.nsf/sfgov_home?openform
http://www.ct.gov/phone/site/default.asp
While these are not the best sites, I picked them up with a couple minutes of googling. I'm not sure if these are business numbers or not, but they don't look like it. But you get the idea.

So, what you would do is select a page, the program harvests it and finds their addresses and families though the phone book. From there, it is conveivable that more information could be found in other public sources.
We don't actually need detailed information here, names, address, phone #, and a picture would be nice (to show them that yes indeed we do know where you and your family live). I am not sure the best way to search for personal information on the net but I do know you can do it very effectively if you know how to search well and where to look.

The problem is such action would be very easy for the government to make us look bad to the sheeple. Despite the fact that all the information is already all out there, it would now be "in the wrong hands".

[festergrump]

Me234, I do not think you are a stupid man. Ignorant of where to find a list of this nature? Yes, (as am I) but stupid, no. A list like what you describe is unavailable without insider info.

Chris the Great, they're not gonna make anything as far as home addresses and telephone numbers available to the public on even a local level. Even traffic court judges go to great lengths to keep such info out of the publics hands, ect.

You'll need to do your own following home of the individuals from the 'three letter' offices who would encourage the 'leaning on' of you, and that constitutes a crime on your part (stalking) if you are caught doing so. And it would take an army of many numerous years as you mention.

Besides that, if you threaten THEM it's a crime (terroristic threats or some such shit) while if they threaten YOU, it's Homeland Defense "justice". They've got it swayed in their favor no matter which way you look at it. They win, every time. If they bury you (and maybe your whole family) UNDER the prison then nobody's any the wiser...

You can't even run and hide anywhere from the G-men. If they want you (personally) badly enough they're gonna "persuade" you where and when it hurts the most. (maybe only show you video footage of your loved ones torture until you comply or such).

Just respectfully decline the offer, give the locations of your cached weapons covertly and encrytped to a trusted friend, say your goodbyes to your loved ones, send the recorded conversations of the spooks 'offers' you made previously to several media channels in several countries via un-involved channels, and take out as many as you can on your way out... :D

RTPB states: Plan for failure. This is exactly that-- but on the most extreme level of scenarios... But is it failure of the governments WE the PEOPLE supposedly set in motion or failure by YOU to operate beneath the 'radar' of said government (while knowing full well that they do not approve of your studies unattended and overseen by them)? I say BOTH!

I would only work for the government if I could have a say in how things worked (politically involved, not to achieve their ends) and it'd be doubtful that will happen within the span of my lifetime.

Everyone, please never forget: 'Changing the laws' and 'Batting for the Other Team' are two entirely different things...

I will never say to give up easily. Just to plan ahead... (Shouldn't we all already be doing this? :confused: )

[me234]

What I'm worried about Fester me boy, is that I get the feeling that very few of us are prepaing for the Day. The Crackdown IS coming, we all accept this to be scripture, and yet how many of us are planning, or even are aware of what we need to plan about?
Far too fucking few.
If I had to take a WAG (Wild Asses Guess), I'd say only a small handful have thought about what is going to (about to) happen to us, whether it'll be outright arrests and torture; or public exposure and becoming outcasts, shunned, unable to get a job, being forced to steal food to survive, and thus fulfilling everyone's prophecies of what bad people we are.

Man am I scared, I don't mind admitting it, but now, what do we do, what contingencies do we plan for?

[Chris The Great]

I am capable, at this moment in time, to walk off into the wilderness and live there for however long I want within a day a of packing. I am developing contingency plans for end of the world scenarios (earthquake, pandemic, tsuinami, worldwide race war ala nbk), and a plan for the crackdown. I am by no means prepared at this time (other than being able to probably survive in a forest for a long time), but I am working on it and hope to be prepared soon.

Its not stealing animals if they walk into the snare, right?

But you are right me234... most of us will not be prepared, and with one swoop most of us will be gone. We talk about it, but we don't DO anything about it. We figure it will happen 'later' and it won't happen to 'us', only 'other people'.
You can see how well this 'nothing bad will happen' attitude worked with New Orleans.

How much time and effort does it take to think of a plan for the crackdown? It doesn't need to be rambo, just places you know you can retreat to and hide out for a while to plan your next move with some money stashed away. Figure out escape routes from your house and through your nieghbourhood. Practice running, get in shape, learn unarmed combat so even if the piggies catch you by surprise you can still do something. Stay alert, and always carry at least a basic contingency plan with you (you never know when the piggies might simply set up a roadblock and wait for you to head home from work).

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

I now see where the insurgents are actually destroying Bradley Fighting Vehicles. I remember a thread a few years ago where we discussed the merits of destroying a tank with improvised explosives. If I remember correctly the general consensus was that this could not be done effectively.What about a kinetic penetrator round? It's pretty simple.

[simply RED]

I think the Crackdown time is not very near... Exposing us - will expose problems in the "modern society".
Now the strategy is no problem to be exposed - everything should be smooth.

Anyway, the crackdown should come one day! Any preparation is useful.
To my mind - creating always better protected communication, thinking steps ahead and so on - is most importaint for now...
It is just an opionion anyway...
Immagine the chaos if all internet falls, or another such big deal...

There is also a difference (countries). For example the second world war did not affect my country because it is on the ass of the geography. In some countries there will be bigger events than in others.

[Slinger]

I think the crackdown may be more near than a lot of folks think.

Riddle me this: What happens when an economy begins to grind down? Higher prices for everyday things like gasoline and milk, etc. People will start to get angry.

If such stuff continues, eventually people will begin to protest and riot, soon you have a society in complete disarray.

When the rioting and looting starts, if it is large-scale, what happens?

Duhn-duhn-duhn! Martial law, or at least a step-up in local authority's power to "serve and protect" :rolleyes:

While I don't bank with all the conspiracy theories, a trashed economy may be an excellent excuse for the govt. to crack down on those who may be seen as a possible threat (anyone not bleating to their tune).

And if you don't consider the economy trashed already, wait a while... it can only get worse from here.

[sdjsdj]

Uh . . .
Too late?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5011096.stm

[Chris The Great]

Probably...
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/issues-opinions/5275-can-anyone-make-stop.html

As has been said before, the crackdown is a low, gradual event. There will be no one event that makes it the crackdown, but their might be one event that wakes up you to the reality that it has happened, and you missed it. Or, one day, you just stop and realize that it has happened, the crackdown has come and gone, and you never realized it.

There won't be some huge major event, just the slow chipping away. Thinking otherwise is denial of the fact, and you'll be one of the last to wake up to the fact. You'll be waiting for the one big event to happen, to tell you the crackdown has come and you need to act, and that event will never come. No resistance will happen, and then everyone will realize that Big Brother will never be defeated, they waited to long for what never happened and now they will be slaves forever.

You'll be like Wilson Smith, one day you wake up, but it is far, far to late to hope to accomplish anything.

Has it happened? I won't say, that would be incitement of terrorist activities. Which, IMO, sums up the situation quite nicely.

[sdjsdj]

Strangely, though, I do not belive that the governments of the 'Free' world consider us a serious threat (otherwise, I would probably be in some eastern european hellhole of a detention centre right now - let's face it, the forum may be a lot of things, but 100% untraceable to the best funded intelligence agencies in the world it isn't) because most of us are TOO intelligent; after all, how often is it that a terrorist act is committed by a well informed, rational person in a sane state of mind?
Most forum members (at least, those who last more than 20 seconds here) are both logical, intelligent and rational; as such they are fully aware that any desirable consequences of radical action involving force (social reform, overthrow of an evil dictatatorship etc.) will be outweighed by the short-term, highly unpleasant consequences for the individual involved (being hauled off to have a car battery wired up to their testicles) and as such are not high priority targets; we may theorise about the consequences of setting off a dirty bomb in a major city, but I doubt that any of us actually will. The defense that somebody out there thinks we won't apply our knowledge may be flimsy, but it's better than nothing!

[akinrog]

Strangely, though, I do not belive that the governments of the 'Free' world consider us a serious threat (otherwise, I would probably be in some eastern european hellhole of a detention centre right now - let's face it, the forum may be a lot of things, but 100% untraceable to the best funded intelligence agencies in the world it isn't) because most of us are TOO intelligent; after all, how often is it that a terrorist act is committed by a well informed, rational person in a sane state of mind?

I don't say members of this forum are criminals but please don't get carried away with the false notion of security and invincibility. The very state of mind you are expressing above is called as Oidipus Syndrome. I mean a criminal(wise) person always thinks s/he is immune to get busted, but most probably gets busted. :eek:

And consider the case of Luty, author of many books about improvided weaponry. Despite he did not do anything wrong, he was continously harrassed by police and even put in prison on various charges. Since all charges against him did not hold true, they even tried to put him insane asylum. And Britain is supposed to be one of the countries in the "Free" world, as you put it. :mad: Regards.

[Jacks Complete]

Those raids - 500 police for 8 arrests, of which there are only three who they could pin terror offences on. It shows both sides, that they have little clue, but also that they will throw everything they have at even the dumbest of ideas, without regard for collaterol damage or fact or expense.

There was a guy in India. He was a local hero, and he killed over 30 policemen when they came for him. Eventually, the Indian police sent hima message, saying "Ok, we won't send more police or troops if you stop killing them". When he died, his death was mourned by thousands. He was shot by police. They didn't stop sending them.

Luty didn't hurt anyone, but he broke plenty of laws. I argue that there should only be laws against harming others (and yourself to some degree) so crap like "simple possession" would not be an issue in my country. Unless you are using it to the detrement of others or society at large, carry on carrying your gun, knife, baton, porn, (most) drugs, etc. but woe betide you if you mess with someone else. By clearing out people who didn't pay for a TV license or got "caught" carrying a knife or 2g of hash, there will be far more time and space to lock up the evil bastards.

[nbk2000]

Was the hindu shot by the cops AFTER he died? Or was he shot and killed by the police?

[NoltaiR]

This world is sick. While I would be the last person here who would start up a millitia of any form, I have certainly always been one to stand my ground. I am intelligent enough to protect myself... on many levels. However it should be taken into account that the government as gained its power because of the knowledge and strength that IT has. Do not overestimate yourself.. Do not do something stupid. The government is not CURRENTLY at war with its citizens, and for fear of media misrepresentation, the government will not directly violate any constitutional law. Including free speech.

At the same time, do not be too light footed.. the government will always seek its own survival. And should anyone (be it a foreign power or not) violate that barrier of trust... they will always be stronger, faster, and more fitted than you.

So be aware. But don't be stupid.

[Chris The Great]

The problem is the difference between what you could do and what you can do. I know most of us have vast amounts of knowledge on all sorts of things, but would you actually have any of that when you need it? Chances are, no, you would not. You don't have body armour, detailed plans with numerous contingencies, guns & ammo and grenades all ready to go as soon as your alarm goes off that gives you roughly a minutes warning that the bacon is coming up to your house.

Just because you could do something has no effect on what the pigs do to you, it's only what you can do that has any relevence.

I'm sure if we all had everything we knew how to make, we could take on an entire SWAT team at once, and get them all, before escaping to Mexico. I'm also quite sure that NONE of us here are capable of that. So, don't go around thinking that you can do that, unless you do actually get all that stuff ready.
Only then would you actually stand a chance against the police. I know our gadgets and ideas would easily give us the upper hand, but as long as they just remain ideas they won't help you.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

"The Crackdown" is coming closer.

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6077654.html

[NoltaiR]

I think the report that is linked to is about child porn on the internet.. that really is a bad thing.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

I think the report that is linked to is about child porn on the internet.. that really is a bad thing.
It won't do anything to stop child porn what so ever.

[nbk2000]

CP is just an excuse the government uses to justify any excess they deem fit to do.

After all, who's going to stand up for strong crypto if it's being used by child rapists?! :mad:

You're defending pedophiles rights to use cryptography to hide their filthy rape of little children?! CRUCIFY HIM!

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Exactly. And terrorism is now the new "Think of the children." And, you know to the government, anyone who doesn't agree or knows too much is a threat and has to be dealt with. That means us.

[defiant]

The crackdown may not be as far away as generally believed. To some extent it is already underway.

Check out these links:

FEMA co-ordination with pastors to control the public in exchange for preferential treatment (the same tactic that the CIA has used in S. America for years):

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/240506femaplan.htm

The Government release of the plane hitting the Pentagon on 9/11:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5415578059017835301&q=Judicial+Watch

See any plane? Kind of leads one to think that maybe the gov set up the whole fiasco . . .

Martial law was also declared in New Orleans after Hurrican Katrina, at which time the government refused access to the bridge allowing people out of the City, refused to allow private citizens with boats in for search and rescue, seized guns, and rounded the general public into the Superdome and kept there by armed forces:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7288762817759323585&q=New+Orleans+Gun

Then there was the Miami Free Trade of the America's protest, where police brutalized peaceful protesters. There's some great video footage of police tactics in the Indymedia production "The Miami Model" - including overwhelming police forces shooting indiscriminately into the crowd (which they also did to the non-imbedded media:

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=Miami+Model&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8&b=0&oid=320a6ba797410a8c&rurl=www.archive.org&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fvide o%3Fp%3DMiami%2BModel%26sm%3DYahoo%2521%2BSearch%2 6toggle%3D1%26cop%3D%26ei%3DUTF-8&vback=Results

There's also the classic by Alex Jones, "Police State" - which covers what the government has been doing behind the scenes to implement a police state. There are several different versions available at:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Police+State

If a police state isn't all all encompassing in the US at this point, be patient - there's more to come.

[nbk2000]

Anytime you see the 'Four Horsemen of the Internet' mentioned, you know THEY are planning on fucking your rights.

The Four Horsemen are:


Terrorists
Pedophiles/Kiddie Porn
Criminals
Kidnappers


I don't know why, but it always works out to these 4.

[anonymous411]

"Lets say that they realize that the kind and caliber of minds that can handle chemistry/math/physics,ect are a valuable resource...not to be squandered.

I doubt any of us would object! Paid to play with destructive toys... Can I start tomorrow? Heck, I'll get dressed and start *now*..."

Actually, plenty of people have been offered--and taken--this very Faustian bargain in the form of government contract work at FFRDC think tanks. As a former collaborator, I have to say it's about the most insidious and effective form of selling out there is.

For example, ever hear about the RAND Graduate School? (I'll bet you didn't even know RAND had a graduate program, did you.) Here's how it works: brilliant young people from around the world are offered free tuition and freedom to research anything and everything under the sun as they earn their PhDs in Policy Analysis and do "on the job training".

You name it, the DoD or some three-letter-agency will be offering offering fat contracts to study it: weapons of mass destruction, counterterrorism, intelligence preparation of the battlefield, urban operations, offensive network operations, critical infrastructure protection, biometrics, PSYOPS and deception studies, data mining and artificial intelligence, physical security red-teaming, grand strategy.

The real beauty of it is RAND encourages the multidiciplinary approach: one person can work in all these subjects, and the more you train, the sky's the limit. Even being allowed access to their 24/7 research library is like a goddamned trip to paradise... I swear to God, this kind of research doesn't feel like "work" at all and you literally don't want to leave the building.

A few years back, I heard some grad students with engineering backgrounds brag about how they actually built and tested an improvised DIY cruise missile in the parking lot-- and got paid for their time! And why not? The government plays them for the suckers they are: keep them happy and surrounded with toys to experiment with and they'll produce for you, all right.

The only "government watch list" these motherfuckers are on is the one to sign up for new and exciting research projects. When the crackdown comes, these assholes will be sitting pretty above it all enjoying their fat paychecks and unfettered access to information. Ultimately, they're the ones who engineered it.

Sounds really, really tempting, doesn't it.

Being a FFRDC analyst is a bit like being the government's tamed pet jackal locked in a gilded doghouse. You feel free to snarl and snap and do what you want, but at the end of the day you know where your comfortable cushions and big bowl of dogfood is coming from...and what you're being used for. People who'd never work directly for the government in a million years come out and show them how they do their tricks, and all's well with their world. Information is power, and these people will work on damn near anything to get it.

Disgusting. And believe me, I ought to know.

If it weren't for the FFRDCs and outside contractors, I think it's safe to say government technology and innovation would be complete and utter shit. All I can say is thank GOD the bureacracy is too inefficient and corrupt to take full advantage of it.

So the next time you read about some new advance in statist technology, don't pin all the blame on the dimwitted donut-eaters. The ones you really need to thank are all those Atlases who never Shrugged...the sharp-eyed bastard in the corner just like you who was suckered into believing he's playing the system...when in reality the system is playing him.

But hey, thanks for the training.

[lolmao]

Educate yourselves and watch Terrorstorm on google video. It's the history of US false flag operations, London Bombings.. ect...

[nbk2000]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/151206mccainbill.htm

In a speech last month, Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff identified the web as a "terror training camp," through which "disaffected people living in the United States" are developing "radical ideologies and potentially violent skills." Chertoff pledged to dispatch Homeland Security agents to local police departments in order to aid in the apprehension of domestic terrorists who use the Internet as a political tool.

Gee...I wonder who they might be referring to by potentially violent skills...wouldn't be us, would it? ;)

[simply RED]

Anonymous411, the government education system is decreasing its quality with every day passing.
It is a worldwide phenomenon that private universities are becoming far better than the government ones.
But we need more and more people there (both in private and gov.)! University libraries, professional societies and organized training are essential for personal and collective success.

[tmp]

In a May 2006 speech at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, McCain attacked the blogosphere as a refuge of those only infatuated with self-expression. He was trying to minimize the importance of the last true outpost of freedom of speech, the Internet, and portray it as nothing more than a swap shop for egos and hyperbole.
That's right ! We do have rights and don't appreciate shitheads like McCain
wanting to shut us down because we say what the hell we want even if the
politicians don't like it. IIRC, the congressional Democrats tried to pass what
was then referred to as the "Hush Rush" bill in an effort to intimidate radio
talk show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh, demanding equal time for the loony
left to spout their moronic shit !

[Hirudinea]

Free speech is, and always has been and always will be, the freedom to express the opinions those in power are comfortable with, all others will be shot.

[simply RED]

Same dickheads that participated in the supression of bioscience are now targetting nanotechnology.

http://biotech.indymedia.org/or/2007/05/5607.shtml

[Dr. Hextromeister]

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/05/reminder_monday.html


"Radical ideologies and potentially violent skills."....

[megalomania]

Having just completed a course in technological ethics I can tell you there should be stronger standards of testing and evaluation of new technology. New technology should be evaluated exactly as a new drug is, with clinical trials, and careful objective measurements to gauge potential harmful effects.

I also just completed making a presentation on the harmful effects of genetically modified foods, and I can tell you that there are many problems with biotechnology that are not being addressed.

There are some very serious problems with nanotechnology that need to be evaluated before they escape into the wild. The trick the companies use is to do all testing and evaluation themselves (thus not releasing anything negative), to thoroughly discourage and discredit any third party testing that could present anything counter to their profit goals, and then tell the media+world that "there is absolutely no (credible) evidence of any problems with our product." Well of course not because they are the only ones doing the testing.

I especially believe all police, law enforcement, federal agency, and military technology should be fully disclosed to the public, and if such technology is deemed classified, to a senate ethics committee. It is very likely that law enforcement is using new technology in such a way that if the technology were publicly known, then laws would have been enacted to criminalize the very uses law enforcement is putting the technology. By keeping new technology secret the fedgov can commit moral and ethical atrocities, which are not technically illegal, because no one knows about the technology.

Unrestricted biotechnology and nanotechnology is the same equivalent of dumping an experimental drug into a towns water supply to observe the effects. That is imoral, unethical, and quite illegal. Now apply this to a town of wealthy white Americans and there will be outrage. Do the same thing with other technologies and there will be nary a peep, because there are no laws to stop them if things go wrong.

When things do go wrong, and they have, and because there are no laws specifically legislating the technology, then any clean up efforts are made AT THE TAXPAYERS EXPENSE. This very loophole is why lobbyists with biotech companies have forked out so much money to keep legislation at bay. This amounts to taxpayer subsidized welfare for their mistakes. When a chemical company dumps a toxin into your drinking water, THEY have to pay for the cleanup, THEY have to pay for the healthcare incurred by the victims, THEY have to pay all the lawsuits for the damage they caused. With biotech and nanotech, YOU pay because there are no laws to hold them accountable.

Once you separate the nutjobs and luddites from technological arguments (like the religious zealots who hate biotech because it is tampering with god) there are still many valid and logical arguments for restricting the USE of technologies. We just want the technology to be tested before it gets loose to stop potential problems before they happen, not to stop the technology altogether.

Biotech and nanotech companies spend obscene amounts of money on public relations and propaganda campaigns using very advanced psychological techniques to sway public opinion their way without actually allowing any credible scientific debate to become a factor. They know your mind better than you do, they know the tricks to get you to believe what they want, and they have billions of dollars riding on the fact you will vote their way based on their marketing tricks of manipulating your perception.

[nbk2000]

I'm all for unrestricted development of nano-tech, as that's the most likely way for my frozen corpse to be brought back to life! :)

Of course, there is always the risk of the 'gray goo (http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/Ecophagy.html)' eating up the planet, but I'll already be (temporarily) dead so it won't matter to me. :p

[simply RED]

It is very simple - petrol producing companies pay the anti-nuclear activists. 20th century electronics producers pay the anti-nano activists. Open butts like "open society" pay the anti-biotech activists.
Not to mention the zealots, vatican, etc...
Some of those anti-progress butts claim to be "anarchist" , "rebels" , "anti new world order" etc. Anyway - they receive funds directly from the corporations which is ultra pathetic!

The results of all this is funds being withdrawn from the universities and captured by the corporations, corrupted politics and various religious cuNts! The final results will be the complete extinction of free education , taxes will continue to grow until they reach double or even more - than the today's level.
Quite a nice example is the "new bulgarian uni" in Sofia which is in deep correlation to the Open Society, the taxes there are 3 times the taxes of other private unis and it is becoming the only serious uni in Bulgaria...

One only thing to mention, the frequencies of the computer processors have reached a point that signal can no longer propagate through electric wire. The solution is NANO ! Anyway with the current level of corruption in the companies it may be easier to destroy or at least slow down new technologies than hire specialists that may reveal your secrets...

Dollalujah!
Gov be with you!

[mr.pyro]

I stumbled across this reading some forum I linked to from Digg.com

It was posted by a guy that works in the police in North Carolina.


"I wasn't going to show this because I doubt, no I know, I am not supposed too. But people need to know this damnit.. It just isn't fucking right!

Take a look at our new hire pre-training manual:



Some of the most interesting lines out of the chapter:

Quote:
"Now picture the level of civil disobedience that would occur with a state of emergency. The times we are living in are a time of increased national tension from the grip of terror. Should a domestic terrorism incident occur on a massive level, the President can and will declare a state of emergency. As a peace officer it is your job to assist the urban military forces while enforcing all local and state laws."


Quote:
“Place the city into districts of incident, also known as ‘riot hot spots’… Military force will be more prevalent in the districts of incident so expect to do more cohesion with them there. Local law should be enforced at all times with no question to authority. Residents should be forced to stay inside until riot situations diffuse. This technique of urban lockdown is called ‘packing’”


Quote:
“These people are dangerous and should be eliminated at once. … Since this person is obstructing justice during a Martial Law situation, any force may be used within reason.”


Quote:
“…it is time to move into tactical formation and start the ‘Long Island Protocol’ which was mentioned earlier. The following is a generic list of items that should be confiscated: Guns, Long Guns, Axes, Kitchen Knives, Decorative Armor and/or Weapons, Swords, Bullets, Paramilitary Clothing, Stun Guns, OC Spray, Spray Bottles, Play Guns, Bullet Proof Vests, Batons, Baseball Bats, Golf Clubs, Garden Tools, and any trained attack dog should be put down (such nice wording isn’t it?) unless they are secured. It is also very important to note the Constitutional Rights of the public change drastically during Martial Law (refer back to chapter 29). Be aware of this as you run across uncooperative citizens. Remember remember remember you are doing this for their safety.”

Forum is lame I know, but here is the Source anyways: http://www.thebestfanpageintheuniverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2272

[Rbick]

Not that I agree with the government having too much power, which I think they do as it is, but these guide lines seem acceptable to me in a riot situation. The incidents down in New Orleans and the Rodney King riots in L.A. in '92 all called for martial law, which I think was necessary.

If I were a police officer or Soldier following orders, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a dog in the face if it were attacking me. Nor would I have a problem disarming (not killing, that would be the last option) a hostile crowd trying to kill me. While I think it is wrong for the government to use fear tactics with "terror" to make us all sheeple, I don't see anything wrong with a procedure of this nature to disable a hostile rioting crowd. When the South rebelled, the North could have just chilled out and let them walk on over, or do what they did and kick some arse. Or when gangsters were killing indiscriminately in L.A., the police and military could have sat back and watched the entire city burn down (a lot of it did anyway).

Point being; While excess government control is a horrible thing, some law is required to successfully run a country and keep it intact. Our founding fathers did a wonderful job at trying to make sure excess gov't control wouldn't happened, but today they seem to be finding ways around it :(

[Charles Owlen Picket]

The object is to AVOID the civil unrest. This country would come apart at the seams if such directives were seen as common-place even in a riot. - It's the aftermath that would do it. The reports of such actions would make Ruby Ridge & Waco seem like a flea on a dog if that level of reaction were to be cast in the light of media spin.

So obviously what would happen would be a curtailment of the 1st Amendment in relationship to such civil unrest as NO ONE really TRUSTS the press.

End result may just be a whole new level of "freedoms" (freedom not to be imprisoned). Civil unrest would not accomplish the aim of resurrecting the Founding Father's Constitutionally lead government...it would bury it.

[Alexires]

Actually, I'm writing a politics essay on this at the moment, and it occurred to me..... what would actually happen if we just lay down and let the government walk all over us. If there was no opposition to the government anywhere (domestic and foreign) would it have a reason to exist?

While I know that sure as hell isn't going to happen, it was amusing to think about it.

Rbick - A lot of the problem here is that while one law, one rule, one regulation might seem innocent, may seem reasonable, can you be 100% sure that the government will stop with just one? You can either rely on the good will of the bureaucracy or "take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing....."

Personally, I think there is to much danger. I do not trust the government, and I do not trust the majority of other people to do what I think is right. I would rather have to fight for my rights than to let even one of these fair/protection laws go through.

No one has all the answers Rbick. We just do the best we can, and do what we think is right.

[Rbick]

I totally agree with you Alexires. I'm quoting myself here:

Not that I agree with the government having too much power, which I think they do as it is

Our founding fathers did a wonderful job at trying to make sure excess gov't control wouldn't happened, but today they seem to be finding ways around it

I don't trust the government either, but I am thankful that there are times when they do act within reason, such as incidents in L.A (After the riots started of course. I don't agree with beating a man to death with batons...). It is important to question our gov't, its part of what we're suppose to do. I still think there should be some laws. If human nature is so horrible, which I think it mostly is, than a certain amount of laws are needed. The ones being pressed on us today limiting access to chemicals and now firearms along with privacy rights are ridiculous and they have obviously overstepped what I qualify as reasonable. Although I guess what "reasonable" is can be a matter of opinion, but I think a lot of people agree on that particular issue here ;).

No one has all the answers Rbick. We just do the best we can, and do what we think is right.

I have the answers, and one of them is right next to my night stand at night, and its ready to deliver 65 grains of pain at 3100 fps at any given time. If they want them, they can pry them from my cold dead fingers! :D. (Just being funny of course, except for the last part)

[megalomania]

The term “self fulfilling prophesy” comes to mind when I read about dealing with a riot in the fashion described by mr. pyro. The level of civil unrest would increase dramatically once the unruly populace learns the fedgov is confiscating weapons, armor, kitchen knives, garden tools, and any weapon they might hope to use against other rioters. Not to mention no pet owner will want their hound to be put down by jack booted thugs for trying to protect its master from fedgov goons. The measures the fedgov takes to quell the rioting can be the very catalyst that causes a full blown disaster leading to a declaration of martial law, and the ensuing bloodbath likely to follow.

During hurricane Katrina there were marauding gangs of looters, thieves, rapists, and murderers. There was no law enforcement despite the presence of National Guard soldiers and full mobilization of state and local police. The only law was the law of the gun, those with guns kept the looters and murderers away. Those without guns, or a suitable weapon, were looted and murdered. Disarming a criminal will not make them law abiding, it will only slow them down a little until they find a new weapon. Disarming a law abiding citizen will make them easy prey to criminals.

Any situation that degenerates to the point where martial law is imposed can swing both ways for a citizen. If the fedgov suspends the law, no sane man who wishes to survive, or to protect his family, should obey any law. Your rights as a human being, not just civil rights, are suspended in a riot or martial law scenario. You should consider everyone your enemy, and know the fedgov is killing first, asking questions later. You cannot be held accountable for your actions during such a situation where only the law of the jungle exists. This is not to say you have a license to start raping and robbing your neighbor, but you will be absolved for applying lethal force to any man who comes into your home or shelter, be they neighbor, or fedgov trooper. The law means nothing when the fedgov is out for blood. Fight them and you may die or be imprisoned, surrender and you will die and get sent to prison anyway. Kill them and you will survive.

Quite simply an armed populace is very difficult to victimize. The Founding Fathers realized this and drafted the Second Amendment for this very reason. If everyone carried a firearm there would be far less violence because criminals would think twice, and three times, before raping/robbing/murdering anyone if it means they would end up dead. A morgue full of dead stupid criminals would make the world a much better place. An armed populace would also drastically reduce the fedgovs usage of illegal searches and seizures. They would be forced to rely on evidence before entering a home, not just getting a random judge to sign some papers because the cops want to paw through some girls underwear drawer on a fishing expedition. The cops would have to think twice before raiding any home if everyone were armed forcing them to do their jobs the legal way.

[Jacks Complete]

There were plenty of videos after the fact, and reporting in the papers, of very well armed people in safe and secure houses being disarmed by the troops and police, and then left to fend for themselves, during Katrina.

From what I saw of the firepower one group had, which was easily on a par with that that the soldiers had, if they had decided to tell those disarming them to go to hell, they could have sent them. But because they were law-abiding, they handed them over. Those people should not have been put in that position!

It's completely wrong, to me. If they were out on the streets, then fine, but if they are looking after their own, at home, then great! It should have been a few minutes of talk to determine they were ok, then wish them luck, and ask that if you run into trouble down the road, would it be ok to call them for fire support.

[nbk2000]

It was only the Whites being disarmed, at the request of a black mayor, and a black chief-of-police.

Hmmmm....

[Defendu]

It was only the Whites being disarmed, at the request of a black mayor, and a black chief-of-police.

NRA video on the situation showed some niggers who claimed they were disarmed of their "Saturday night specials", but upper class white neighborhoods were also targeted.

[NoltaiR]

Actually, I'm writing a politics essay on this at the moment, and it occurred to me.....

At this moment I am writing an essay for submission to the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) of which I am an officer. It is concerning airport and airline security before and after 9/11. It should be quite a read, so I will post it here when I am finished.

Expect it to be between 1500-2000 words in length... and, of coarse, there will be a works cited so people don't think that I really am omnipotent :)

[NoltaiR]

Ok I posted a slightly revised version that is more complete. <br>Still needs some work but this is much more effective.

--------------------------------------------------------
<P>
<TABLE borderColor=black cellPadding=10 width=750 border=2><BR>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><FONT size=3>
<P></P>
<P>Upon completion of appropriate peer review, <br>article will be submitted to the EAA for publication.<br><BR><center><b>You Can't Put a Price on Safety</b></center></P>
<P>&nbsp;On September 11th, 2001, America watched as stories of four high-jacked aircraft targeted Washington D.C. and New York. The first World Trade Center tower was hit at 8:46am, the second tower at 9:02am. The resulting numbers are staggering. Total number killed in attacks: 2,819; of which 343 firefighters and paramedics were killed. Approximately 1.5 million tons of debris were removed costing an estimated $600 million. "The number of Americans who changed their 2001 holiday-travel plans from plane to train or car: 1.4 million." (New York 2007)</P>
<P>&nbsp;After our country came under attack, our airport security tightened its grip. Waiting lines of travelers increased dramatically in size as the bag and body checks became much more stringent. As a result, the sky-rocketing cost to fund the security rose proportionally. Customer complaints were seemingly endless, and can still be found plastered all over national newspapers and websites, even today. In the beginning, the increased security was accepted, even expected. As society has slowly forgotten the damage done on that fateful day, the push to decrease airport security for cost and efficiency is all the hype. Now, almost six years after the attacks, changes in airport policy and infrastructure are still changing. </P>
<P>&nbsp;In my opinion, the current status and procedures followed are acceptable, even if slightly streamlined for time and cost purposes. However, we are on the verge of getting too careless again, which means it is only a matter of time before something similar happens again. Terrorists and criminals alike will never just go away, and there will always be those out there with a motive to destroy others. Sometimes it's for personal reasons, and sometimes it's for religious or military reasons. Security should not be decreased any further; the government has a responsibility to keep the public safe, regardless of cost. After all, no one can put a price on safety.<BR></P>
<P>&nbsp;Before September 11th, our country was a bit of a carefree, not unlike the mood of the Hawaiian islands prior to the Pearl Harbor attacks. Americans have a habitual problem with assuming impermeable safety, being proved dreadfully wrong, making a number of quick-fixes, and then relaxing again. If there was ever a country that doesn't learn from prior mistakes, it's our United States of America. An inherent side-effect of being the king of the hill, is that sooner or later, someone is going to try to dethrone you.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>While '9/11' (as it is commonly referred to) is certainly the most infamous of airline and airport security failures, it is by no means the only one. In 1985, Air India Flight 182 was destroyed by an onboard bomb resulting in 329 casualties. In December of the same year, the attacks on Rome and Vienna airports resulted in twenty people dead when gunmen attacked travelers at the El Al airline ticket counters. In 1994, the bombing of Philippine Airlines Flight 434 killed one onboard passenger and forced the aircraft to an emergency landing. The bombing was later found to be a test run for a much larger terrorist attack known as "Operation Bojinka". Clearly, targeting an airport facility is not a 21st century idea. Yet with lack of proper security measures historically resulting in death, four aircraft were successfully hijacked and used to kill almost three thousand unsuspecting victims.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>As a result of several hijackings during the 1960s, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) began requiring that all airlines screen passengers for carry-on luggage. The airlines contracted private security companies to handle the screenings, which in turn was generally the company that offered to do the job for the lowest cost. Sadly, top-notch security was discarded to save the almighty dollar. In the realm of capitalism, corporations value their stock price more than life itself.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Another pre-9/11 attempt at enhancing air safety was the creation of the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS). Administered by the FBI and FAA, this screening system assigns air travelers a "risk score" based on collecting identifying information by the airline including as their name, address, etc. and comparing it to information in national databases (including "No-Fly lists", most wanted lists, fugitive lists, etc.). Possible risk scores were/are green (no threat) which meant no additional screening, yellow (unknown or possible threat) which meant further screening required, and red (high risk) which meant no boarding and the traveler would be turned over to appropriate law enforcement.(TSA 2006) The main fault in this system is that terrorists are often first time offenders and therefore would not be considered a high risk. Also, a selected person was still allowed on the airplane as long as they were found not to be carrying explosives or weapons, and were not wanted for outstanding felony warrants.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>The ticking time bomb struck zero and America would pay the ultimate price for negligence. This world is filled with those who seek destruction and to make a name for themselves. On 9/11, the CAPPS I system proved utterly useless. Of the nineteen known hijackers, several were selected (as a level 'yellow') by the system due to database matches or because they couldn't produce a valid picture identification. "Under security rules in place at the time, the only consequence of selection by CAPPS was that checked bags were held off the plane until it was confirmed that [the selectee] had boarded the aircraft. This did not hinder [their] plans. ...Their selection affected only the handling of their bags, not their screening at the checkpoint." (Commission 2001). On this day, our fantasy world of perfect civility was turned upside down. Have we seriously not learned our lesson? Will we ever?<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>As many are well aware, box-cutters were the weapon of choice for the hijackings. Yet until that point, these knives were not considered weapons at all because they had blades less than four inches long. Some airlines even considered box-cutters to be trade tools. It should be noted that even if knives had been banned, a true criminal could have used a variety of other safe-looking items to do the job. A broken glass bottle could have been equally effective. On September 13, 2001, the FAA prohibited the possession of any knife in a secured airport area or airplane. <BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>The damage had been done, next is the traditional quick-fix to protect the public. Prior to the attacks, the first class cabin was separated from the main cabin by a curtain. As a result, the hijackers (all traveling first class) were able to take control of the airplane before over half of the other travelers even knew there was something wrong. Since then, most airlines realize the security risk involved and have removed the curtains.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Probably the most significant change since the attacks is the creation of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) which was enacted one month after the 9/11 attacks. The TSA (part of the Department of Homeland Security) is enlisted to prevent attacks on airports or aircraft, prevent accidents and fatalities due to transport of hazardous materials, and ensure safety and security of passengers. In November 2002, the Aviation and Transportation Security Act was enstated to require that all passenger screening be done by Federal employees (which, in turn, meant the TSA), thus eliminating the 'lowest bidder' problem. <BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>In the years that have followed, airport security is gradually loosening its firm grip in order to streamline business and save money. One way in which the TSA has increased efficiency in our airports is by having instituted the Screening Passengers by Observation Techniques (SPOT) at approximately forty major airports. "Security officers monitor the behavior of travelers, looking for those who exhibit involuntary reactions of fear. Those suspected of being dangerous would be checked with a hand wand and their carry-on bags would be looked at. Screening is to be focused on behaviors only, and should not be specific to appearance, gender, race, or ethnicity."(TSA 2006) While the thought is well-founded, it is human nature to be biased. If a professional was intending to bring explosives or weapons onboard, they would likely know how to keep their cool and stay 'under the radar'. Lines will likely be slowed anyways as innocent bystanders may appear frightened or nervous just because of all the security around, and, as a result, will be searched.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Another notable change in policy came in September 2006 when the TSA lightened their rules applying to liquids, gels, and aerosols. Previously they weren't allowed at all, but now as long as they are in containers that do not exceed three ounces it is acceptable. All containers that are intended to be carried on the airplane must collectively fit into one quart-sized bag.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>The most recent change in policy is the July 2007 revision of the lighters prohibition and the breast milk policy. As of August, 4th, 2007, security will lighten up a little more as common household lighters and breast milk will be allowed in carry-on baggage. Currently about 22,000 lighters are being seized each day leading to extra costs (as the TSA is responsible for disposing of them) and time from the security officers. The TSA claims that removing this ban will allow officers to focus their attention on explosives and weapons. Currently the U.S. is the only country in the world to have a ban on lighters. Torch lighters will still be banned because of the more significant danger. Breast milk has been classified as a liquid medication and therefore has not been allowed onboard aircraft in amounts exceeding three ounces. The new change considers breast milk to be a medical necessity and will be allowed as long as it is inspected at the appropriate checkpoint.(TSA 2006) This is the point I consider the 'verge of getting too careless'. Slowly items are being allowed back on aircraft because they pose only a marginal risk. Public scrutiny of strict guidelines is once again resulting from overconfidence.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>As recent as June 2nd, 2007, terror plots have been found. Four Caribbean nationals with links to the Muslim organization "Jamaat al Muslimeen" were arrested for conspiring to blow up jet fuel supply tanks and pipelines at John F. Kennedy International Airport. The plot was discovered by FBI wiretaps which were installed when the men were trying to recruit a person who was a law enforcement informant. The leader of the four men, Russell Defreitas, was quoted as saying, "Anytime you hit Kennedy, it is the most hurtful thing to the United States. To hit John F. Kennedy, wow -- they love JFK -- he's like the man. If you hit that, this whole country will be in mourning. It's like you kill the man twice." In a different recorded conversation, Defreitas says, "Even the Twin Towers can't touch it. This can destroy the economy of America for some time." Mark J. Mershon, assistant director of the FBI's New York field office replied, "Had the plot been carried out, it could have resulted in unfathomable damage, deaths, and destruction." (CNN 2007) Amidst all of the chaos that continues to develop, we turn our backs and work towards speed and increased profits.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Maintaining seamless security throughout all airport operations is actually economically beneficial. Prevention of air piracy and terrorism saves an infinite amount of money. The most obvious is the cost of the aircraft themselves, but even more than that is the cost of negligence lawsuits that are inevitably brought about. Insurance companies spend billions of dollars on court settlements with victims and clients. I began this proposal by mentioning that 1.4 million Americans changed their 2001 holiday travel plans from aircraft to cars or trains. This loss in revenue is an enormous fiscal catastrophe for commercial airline companies. Conserve our airports as places of santuary and more will be willing to fly. This is a win-win scenario: save lives, save money, and save our skies from abandonment.<BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>If dollars aren't what drive you, then consider the emotional factor of an airline raid or crash. On board a single airplane are pilots, flight attendants, and passengers. These people have family that will feel the permanent loss of a loved one. They have children who will be orphaned, spouses who will be widowed, and parents who will be left to bury their would-be successors. <BR>&nbsp;</P>
<P>The future is looking grim. After so much damage has occurred and so many lives have been lost, quick business and customer satisfaction still reigns as supreme. There will always be those out there with murderous intentions. They don't care about the killing of others or even themselves as long as a statement has been made. America should take a firm stance on not regressing any further. Current changes in policy have proven to be acceptable and worthwhile, but the grasp on thorough security should not loosen up any further. You cannot put a price tag on life, and apathy always ends in tragedy.</P>
<P>-----------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Bibliography (I am terrible about proper MLA style so don't judge me)<BR><BR>"9/11 by the Numbers". New York Magazine.<BR>July 2007. p36-37.<BR><BR>"A Terrorist Hub?". Global Agenda.<BR>9 June 2007. p25-25.<BR><BR>Koch, Kathleen. "FAA Orders Criminal Checks on Airport Workers".<BR>17 October 2001 <WWW.CNN.COM><BR><BR>Koch, Kathleen. "4 Charged with Terror Plot at JFK Airport".<BR>4 June 2007 <WWW.CNN.COM><BR><BR>Transportation Security Administration. "New Policies for Lighters and Breast Milk".<BR>July 2007 <WWW.TSA.GOV><BR><BR>Transportation Security Administration. "Permitted and Prohibited Items".<BR>26 September 2006 <WWW.TSA.GOV><BR><BR>Transportation Security Administration. "Screening Passengers by Observation Techniques (SPOT)".<BR>6 April 2006 </P>
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[nbk2000]

Niggers don't count as people who need to defend themselves, as the only use they have for guns is to use them for crime.

So if the niggers are disarmed, they can't loot armed whites, which why the niggers were crying about losing their guns in the first place.

[NoltaiR]

Thank you for fixing the editing on that for me. I finished the paper at 5:45am after having been working on it from 10:00pm (I know it seems like it shouldn't have taken so long, but thorough research is tedious).

After having gotten some sleep and reread my work, I think I need to add more of a response. While my evidence to support my claim is quite effective, the pathos appeal really isn't there. I will do some work on it this evening and update it. If I was still in grad school, I would be ashamed to submit it for peer-review as it is now.

Word count is 2,149 which is acceptable for a somewhat generalized proposal.

Also, let me know if there is any trouble in viewing the text. I tried to make everything double-spaced with paragraph indentions.

[NoltaiR]

Ok a revised version has been posted. If you didn't read it the first time I would recommend it, you may learn something. If you did read it, the addition of a couple paragraphs at the end and correction of some general mechanical errors were made.

[nbk2000]

A pretty obvious problem is that every line of text has a line space in it...making rather hard to tell where one thought element (AKA paragraph) ends and another begins.

Also, using HTML tags and &codes doesn't work here like it might elsewhere.

[NoltaiR]

Ok I gave it one last shot. It is now formatted using pure HTML rather than hitting enter a bunch of times. And the writing is in single space with completely separated paragraphs.

[nbk2000]

Much easier to read now...but what the hell does it have to do with the topic of this thread?

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Seems to me there is a difference between air piracy and terrorism. One has a profit & or political motive & it's perpetrators often want to stay alive; the other so generalized in it's actions that it's aims are substantially deviated.

Air piracy was a common element of 1970's Leftist psychosis. Terrorism has at it's center, fear through violence, not profit or even survival.

Are you drawing a parallel between the crackdown on civil liberties and airline terrorism? If a person doesn't care if they stay alive after an action that person often becomes unstoppable through standard means. If we are to really address the terrorism issue, we must discuss civil liberties in the same context.

[Jacks Complete]

I too wonder what this (not very good) report is doing in here. I mean, thanks for sharing, but did you get it proofread?

I could rip in to your conclusions as being a waste of ink, too. I'll just say, however, that box cutters, etc. are never going to work again, now people realise they might well die. They have a reason to not sit there like idiots. Sensible security uses this fact, and doesn't try to stop every last nailfile.

As regards the rather stupid liquid bomb plot, did anyone else see that the Republicans are desperate for votes, and so released this crap to ABC: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Story?id=3451976&page=1

If you look carefully, that's a pretty big bottle they detonate, but, and we all know this, the chemical syth is impractical in a confined space, let alone McGyver style in an airplane bathroom. But it might win a few votes from idiots.

Coming back to the topic nicely there, I think...

[webuyhouses]

But it might win a few votes from idiots.

holy crap that is a huge explosion! we have to do something!
Why isn't there a law to protect us?? [barfy face]

For real, some days I get physically sick when I see what the sheeple are being told. Our society is going down in flames.

Excuse me, I have to finish burying my ammo supply now.

[Bugger]

"When the crackdown comes" - it has just happened here in New Zealand:

[News] Anti-terror raids in New Zealand - guns seized, arrests
Anti-terror raids in New Zealand
- guns seized, arrests made

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/nz-...300645375.html

Sydney Morning Herald, Sydney, NSW
October 15, 2007 - 10:54AM

Leading Maori activist Tame Iti, who was among the people taken in by police in today's raids on arms charges, in a file picture.
Photo: Reuters

New Zealand police have allegedly discovered weapons training camps in a series of anti-terrorism raids under way today.

Prominent Maori activist Tame Iti was among those taken in by police, his lawyer Louis Tekani told Fairfax Media.
He is facing arms charges this afternoon in the Rotorua District Court and Mr Tekani denied any terrorism connection.

Police have been executing warrants under the Suppression of Terrorism Act and the Firearms Act in a series of co-ordinated raids.
The office of Prime Minister Helen Clark is being kept informed over what is going on.
Fairfax Media understands a top secret "O Desk" group met at the Beehive earlier this month to hear what was planned for today.

Weapons training camps were targeted by armed officers on properties throughout the country in this morning's raids, Police Commissioner Howard Broad confirmed.
Speaking at a media conference, Mr Broad said that police were acting on information that over 2006/2007 a number of people had been conducting and participating in training camps in the eastern Bay of Plenty involving the use of firearms and other weapons.
"Based on the information and the activity known to have taken place, I decided it was prudent that action should be taken in the interests of public safety."

More than 300 police staff were involved at the peak of the operation this morning. Many of them had now returned to their normal duties.
Searches of the scenes had resulted in the seizures of firearms and arrests for firearms offences.

He said that search warrants were obtained under the Summary Proceedings Act to search for evidence of offences being committed against the Arms Act and possibly the Terrorism Suppression Act.
Police would be gathering and assessing all available evidence before making a decision as to the nature of the charges to be laid under the TSA.
"We're aware that this is the first time that the Terrorism Suppression Act has been considered in terms of an operation.
"We are, therefore, proceeding with full care in talking to people and assessing information before we can determine whether there is sufficient evidence to seek the consent of the Attorney General through the Solicitor General to charge anyone under that Act."

Mr Broad said a number of firearms had been found in this morning's raids.
He said around 10 people had been arrested and police expected to lay charges against them.

Once the operation was over police would assess all information before them before charging anyone under the Terrorism Act.
He urged people not to jump to conclusions.
Investigation would take quite a bit of time before being completed. In due course the full facts would be placed before the courts.

Campaigners from various Maori sovereignty, environmental and "peace" groups are implicated.
"These guys are serious. They are talking of killing people," a source said.

Mr Iti was woken at 4am today.
"From what he's told me, he heard someone rustling outside and from there the police issued instructions for him to come out," Mr Tekani said.
"He's co-operated with the police and nothing untoward has happened."

Although he was in the Rotorua police cells no charges had been laid and Mr Tekani had seen no summary of facts. He said there was no suggestion of terrorism.
"If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable," he said.
"To charge someone for terrorism type offences is a serious matter. It will be interesting to see what the summary of facts says."

Mr Tekani said locals figured something was happening as early as Saturday because of unusual police traffic in the area.

The Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 requires the police to seek the approval of the Attorney-General before court proceedings are initiated.

More than 60 other people from around the country who have allegedly been recorded talking to, and in some cases training with, the arrested group will also be brought in for questioning.
Some of them are known to have pulled out once they realised the level of violence allegedly being planned.
Police units infiltrated the training camps during months of investigation - sometimes being within metres of those allegedly firing live rounds.

Investigators believe although the groups were training together, they were each planning to hit targets related to their own interests although all the hits would be co-ordinated to cause maximum chaos and stretching police resources across the country.

Rotorua lawyer Annette Sykes said this morning's raids were "overkill" and likened them to "the invasions last century".
"A lot of people had their homes entered this morning," she said.

Ms Sykes said she could not understand why police were using the Suppression of Terrorism Act to conduct the raids.
"They've screwed the people everywhere," she said.

Sunday Star Times and agencies
Edit/Delete Message

[Rbick]

Ok, I can understand arresting people for planning on committing violent acts against innocent people, (if that was in fact the case, although the government has a way of making what they did look like it was right) but why is everything considered to be "terrorism"? In high school I TP'ed my football coaches house. Today they would have called my actions an act of "terrorism". Wave bye bye to your freedoms gentleman, because with the government now being able to accuse everyone of terrorism for anything, they can bend any freedoms they want.

I believe the United States will be one of the last countries that will fall to the crack down, as our constitution is still holding back complete gun control, although they are finding ways around it *COUGH* PATRIOT ACT *COUGH*. With this said, its time to stock up before its too late. Getting guns and chemicals right now is fairly easy in the states. Much more easy than it will be when you have to start buying them on the black market ;).

I must say, things arn't looking to good for us though. Check foxnews.com and see that we have recently had a school shooting and a multiple homicide with an assault rifle. The latter actually happened about 3 hours from where I live. The guy was pissed at his girlfriend for breaking up with him, so he walked into her house with an AR-15 and killed her and 5 of her friends, eventually killing himself. He managed to shoot himself 3 times in the head before he died, which I find rather comical. The idiot couldn't seem to find that little brain of his until the 3rd try.

Anyway, I guess the moral of the story recently mentioned about New Zealand is: Don't train mass numbers of people on how to use guns without government approval and if you are going to overthrow the government, have a more solid plan in place and keep it quiet :D

[Alexires]

Rbick - Talking of gun control.... Gotta love the dirty faggots in Pubic Prosecutions -

GUNS ownership should be completely banned in South Australia, Director of Public Prosecutions Stephen Pallaras claims.
Following a shooting in the city over the weekend Mr Pallaras said all guns should be made illegal.

"It seems to me we are slipping into a mode where by we are coming to accept this is the sort of behaviour that we should tolerate in this city," he told morning ABC radio.

"I think it is a time now while it is perhaps in its early stages to stamp on it hard.

"The answer is, in my view, gun control and gun eradication it is simply not enough to licence people with guns because that hasn't worked - people are still getting shot."

Link here (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22587048-421,00.html)

Seriously though, how can people believe this crap. They even say here that a lot of the weapons are imported, so how would a global ban help? *shakes head in frustration*

[Vitalis]

Looks like it's time to read the How to Hide Anything.pdf on the ftp. Hopefully you could hide, well, ANYTHING! I always hide my guns, ammo, and chemicals just in case.

[nbk2000]

Ever closer to Prison Planet:

US demands air passengers ask its permission to fly

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/12/flying_into_data_hell/print.html

You'll have to apply for PERMISSION to travel via air, 3 days in advance, for any flight going to, from, or over the US.

I can't imagine what they're afraid of about the 'over' part...like a jihadi will jump out of a non-stop Mexico/Canada flight with a bomb on his back as a human-guided 'smart' bomb? :D

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Rbick - Talking of gun control.... Gotta love the dirty faggots in Pubic Prosecutions -

You clearly see how the politician ties an OBJECT to a behaviour! This is very important. It allows the politician to attack that which is SAFE (the inanimate object) and not take on that which may sap votes from his or her nest.

No manner or matter of laws can do that which will never be...the legislation of morality.

[Alexires]

I like to cut things out of the papers that I feel pertains to our profession. Copied word for word -

"Cameras on rubbish trucks

BIG Brother is watching - your rubbish. As part of a trial launched by the State Government yesterday, cameras in rubbish trucks will spy on the contents of household green waste bins in an attempt to prevent hazardous material from being put into the wrong bins.

Residents who put inappropriate items - which have previously included gas bottles, toilet cisterns, car seats and engine parts - into their green waste bins will be alerted via a two-step process.

Initially, stickers will be placed on the green bins advising them of what can and cannot be added. If the camera continues to detect banned items from an individual bin, a bright orange sticker will be placed on the bin, informing the householder of what they are doing wrong.

Almost 10,000 homes will participate in the three-month trial."

I like this "Residents who put inappropriate items....into their green waste bins will be alerted via a two-step process."
Yeah, step one: Surveillance. Step two, 0400 door knock with body armour.

Let's read between the writing. I know you are all smart enough to do so, but I'm just going to say it anyway.

How do they know which green bin to label? Well, it probably has a computer (GPS or something) that knows where the truck is, and which bin it is picking up. That way, it can flag households that "put inappropriate items" in their bins.

So there you go gents, the feds don't even need to rifle through your bins any more, they can just get the footage off the rubbish men and watch it at their own leisure, after the computer has flagged your house for good that are on the "banned" list. Got to love how the media trivialises something like this so that the sheeple go "Silly government. Silly people that put strange things in their rubbish. Ahh well, it's for the best I suppose. ZOG knows best."

As I've said before, dirty faggots.

[Big Mac]

One of the worst things I've noticed is how much the "snitch on your neighbor" TV has really made it hard to share the Gospel of the Gun to people. Almost all of my neighbors save for the one who sold me the CZ-52, are generally gun grabbing, pot smoking, tie-dye wearing hippies who have suggested the following (all of this is real):

1.) The government should have every vehicle come equipped with a Breathalyzer to prevent drunk driving.

2.) Guns shouldn't exist, except for police and military because they (and I seriously quote) "won't hurt innocent people like civilians do!".

3.) There should be randoms stops to see if someone is carrying drugs.

4.) Neo-Nazis shouldn't be allowed to demonstrate at the capital (I live in Austin, Texas) because they are "mean and hateful".

I don't know why, but I seem to be developing this intense urge to sterilize them. I wonder why....

To the prospect of the government cracking down. Bring it, I have enough guns, training, equipment, and sheer determination to make sure I am one pain in the ass to kill. They may get me, but I'll make sure to get a few to come along with me to the gates of hell.

[Unsunghero]

1.) The government should have every vehicle come equipped with a Breathalyzer to prevent drunk driving.




While I definitely..DEFINITELY disagree with the rest of that, the Breathalyzer thing doesn't seem like a bad idea. I don't want some stupid fucking drunk redneck driving his Dodge ram to hit me and kill/injure me or wreck/total my car. I've been in 3 accidents due to this. One example was the other person being completely wasted and lane changing into me (on a highway..)..it wasn't a pretty sight, I was okay but still..fuck that.

Given, that is fear controlling me, but that's more of a..logical..fear.

[nbk2000]

Attempts to use technology to prevent undesirable behavior often fails.

A drunk who's day job is electronics engineer would figure out the way to beat this, then post it on the internet.

[Unsunghero]

Well, even if it deters a small amount of drunk driving it's worth it is it not? Maybe it'll save they guy who's going to cure aids (haha..cure aids..that's funny).

Seriously, that's a pretty shitty way to go, being hit by some drunk fucking idiot.

Most people are too lazy to look up a tutorial on the internet, especially one that involves tampering with electronics. Most people will be scared to fuck up their hardware.

[beirut]

There was a guy in India. He was a local hero, and he killed over 30 policemen when they came for him. Eventually, the Indian police sent hima message, saying "Ok, we won't send more police or troops if you stop killing them". When he died, his death was mourned by thousands. He was shot by police. They didn't stop sending them.
Jack, do you have any idea what part of India this man was from, or perhaps an article you could link here? I'll be staying in the country for several months soon, and I'd like to pay my respects.

I think this thread is a great idea. The rapid loss of freedoms that characterize recent decades will not slow or cease with coming generations. But I've noticed that the majority of what has been discussed has been focused on the individual. There has been mention of watching your trash, acquiring alternate identities, familiarizing yourself with military tactics and marksmanship techniques, gathering hard copies of information, storing materials and data, etcetera. The only problem I see with this is the scattered nature of people that share this opinion. We all like to believe that we could make it on our own if needed, I often convince myself of this, but realistically one man can only fight off an army for so long.

I think the key to ensuring our freedoms in the future is to organize like-minded individuals in our respective areas, and prepare together. Formulate plans to secure your area from the fascist pig bastards that come to take it. Devise a system for notification, so you're not caught with your pants down when the day comes. Where one man is weak many are strong, and strength may be the difference between life as a free man and life as a dog.

[Big Mac]

While I definitely..DEFINITELY disagree with the rest of that, the Breathalyzer thing doesn't seem like a bad idea. I don't want some stupid fucking drunk redneck driving his Dodge ram to hit me and kill/injure me or wreck/total my car. I've been in 3 accidents due to this. One example was the other person being completely wasted and lane changing into me (on a highway..)..it wasn't a pretty sight, I was okay but still..fuck that.

Given, that is fear controlling me, but that's more of a..logical..fear.

Hey, I don't like drunk driving either. My dad was killed by it. However, if you start monitoring people like this, where will it go? The foot would be in the door. It just takes a little more nudging to get that hairy drumstick attached to it into your house.

All I can say is fuck that with tartar sauce.

[festergrump]

Well put, Mac. As soon as you begin to start regulating things BEFORE they happen, that's a complete infringement on someone's rights and it only opens the door for more repressive legislation. Nooses only tighten, never loosen...

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your father, though.

BTW, would you mind translating your sig line? Sounds like it might be an interesting quote.

[Big Mac]

Well, he died 10 years ago. It sucks but hey, life goes on. I work with MADD as volunteer work, but I still get hammered. I just don't drive while doing so.

The bottom one is the famous "Who will watch the watchmen?"

The top is a supposed Martin Luther quote from an Edgar Allen Poe story which is before the story. It says (at least according to the story): "Living I was your plague, dying I shall be your death." I could be wrong about that one. My knowledge of Latin isn't what I desire it to be.

[megalomania]

I don't drink at all, and I don't want the fedgov to use the deplorable behavior of other people as an excuse to inconvenience me. Why not just lock the fuckers in jail for several years and PERMANENTLY revoke their license? Why not just let people do what they want and actually punish the ones that do hurt people?

People get DUI convictions all the time and it does not mean anything. They get a fine, some suspended jail time, maybe a temporary license suspension with exemptions for work, and then they get caught again, and again, and again. A permanent license revocation and a few months in jail, no pleading out, no reduced or suspended sentence, just straight to the slammer, would make people think twice. I hear in Germany the revoke EVERY license you could ever hope to get permanently if you get caught driving drunk (fishing license, driving license, whatever else they license in Germany). They have very low incidence of drunk driving as a result.

There are already breathalysers installed in some cars by court order for repeat drunk drivers. There are already means to defeat the systems too. No need to screw with the electronics. An inflated balloon or a can of compressed air connected to a bit of rubber tubing can simulate blowing through the thing.

[tmp]

Someone I know is in jail for his 3rd DWI conviction. The idiot was sent to
jail the 1st and 2nd time also. When he gets out, his license will already have
been restored. About the pot-smoking hippies, would they like going through
a piss test once of week ? The hippies are fucking hypocrites and the jailed
idiot will probably never learn. Fuck them all !

[Gerbil]

Just a few thoughts:

Formulate plans to secure your area from the fascist pig bastards that come to take it. Devise a system for notification, so you're not caught with your pants down when the day comes. Where one man is weak many are strong, and strength may be the difference between life as a free man and life as a dog.

That's very heroic, but I think you're falling into the trap of seeing the world as "us and them". Whether one man can hold off an army is largely irrelevant, because an army is never going to be at your door. Governmental crackdowns and takeovers are much more subtle.

I can't speak as a US citizen, but from what I hear the suppression of your country started a number of years ago. 9/11 was a major catalyst here, as it enabled the federal government to introduce legislation such as the Patriot Act (which would never have been passed otherwise).
As a more interesting example, the Gitmo detention centre has perhaps, in some circumstances, desensitised the American public to the idea of state-sanctioned torture and imprisonment without trial. At the moment many people aren't too bothered, but that's because only foreigners are suffering. Next it'll be Arab-Americans, and then converts to Islam, and eventually anyone "suspected of terrorist motives" will be shipped away. 1984 anyone?

The fact that you're talking about a future war while one is being lost under your nose is a testament to how cunning politicians can be.

Moving slightly away from the point, it's interesting how the US presidency seems to be almost always occupied by a few particular bloodlines. George Bush is carrying on Daddy's tradition, and now the Clinton family is back on the radar. Is it just me, or is hereditary rule commonly referred to as a monarchy? Perhaps in this case, it's an electable one.
Public votes count for nothing when your relatives can buy influence in the corporate media.

The issue of hereditary rule is incredibly disturbing. One of my main arguments against evil-government-takeover theories is that politicians have nothing to gain by restricting civil liberties, because it's their children that will suffer. But when their kids are destined to take the reins of power, they have everything to gain by doing so. Likewise, corporate sponsors know that if they help, say, the Bush family, then the Bush family will help theirs.

But going back to the talk of guns and bravery and true American spirit, the fact is that you are, almost certainly, never going to stop an oppressive regime from taking over. Yes, you can shoot back and maybe even kill a few worker drones, but let's face it, that's going to do nothing. You'll be denounced as a traitor and thought criminal and promptly disposed of. Regimes tend to take over when they have popular support, even if it's rather misguided.

If I lived in the US, I'd want to leave, and do it sooner rather than later. But then again, where else can you go?

UK: Britain doesn't have as many restrictions on personal freedom, but if you live here you're pretty much at the mercy of the government. Hopefully things will get better once Gordon Clown and his band of closet communists are kicked out of power.
Canada: I really couldn't say.
Oz: Considering that the socialists have just been elected into power, and that one of the first governmental policies is to accept personal responsibility for all the things the evil white man has done, I'd say that going here is a big no.
France: Too many rioting immigrants.
Afghanistan: Too many Muslims who want to kill you.

And so the list goes on. Perhaps in some ways it's best to stick with the devil you know, I guess.
Antarctica's pretty free if you're into roleplaying snowmen. It's got some tasty wildlife too.

But, one last and somewhat hopeful point to remember is that most democratic countries oscillate between conservativism and liberalism. Whether the same holds true for libertarianism and its counterpart is debatable, but for the good of humanity I hope so.

[Joxer]

The fact that you're talking about a future war while one is being lost under your nose is a testament to how cunning politicians can be.

This is good sigline material there. I think I will steal it.

Yes, you can shoot back and maybe even kill a few worker drones, but let's face it, that's going to do nothing.

Start killing the worker drones, and no one will want to be a worker drone.
In fact, I believe that their families are also legit targets, because they are in on it too. Birds of a feather flock together.

I hope "it" happens soon. I am not getting any younger.

[DaedalusX]

Well, even if it deters a small amount of drunk driving it's worth it is it not? Maybe it'll save they guy who's going to cure aids (haha..cure aids..that's funny).



If it saves one childen it must surely be worth it. :rolleyes:

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

[Gerbil]

This is good sigline material there. I think I will steal it.

Nice to know someone appreciates my writing :D .

Start killing the worker drones, and no one will want to be a worker drone.
In fact, I believe that their families are also legit targets, because t hey are in on it too. Birds of a feather flock together.

So the air force pilot's 5 year old daughter should be killed, because she's a conspirator in the evil oppressive New World Order? Perhaps not.

Saying that if you kill more, nobody will join them is similar to the idea that if you attack and oppress a country with an iron fist, the people won't rebel against you. Yet in those situations, the incensed population form militias and try to fight you back.
With every death, your enemy gets angrier. The only way you silence them into submission is by annihilation- eg. the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But I don't think that the average US citizen has a few nukes in his backyard.

Violence is often the solution to problems, but it needs to be controlled and planned. Hate only breeds hate.

[Bugger]

I predict that there will be food riots in major cities in the U$A by 2009, by the unemployed and homeless (the statistics of whom are systematically
"cooked" for political purposes). The "food banks" on which the unemployed and homeless rely in the U$A are nearly empty, and all food inventories are drastically dropping in quantity and prices going up, due to a combination of drought and other natural disasters, diversion of grains and other fermentable raw foods to alcohol production as alternative fuel, lower subsidies on foods, greater exporting of foods from the U$A resulting from the lower U$ dollar, and greater competition among food producers and supermarket chains which reduces their ability to donate surplus food to "food-banks".

If this is coupled with a $tockmarket crash and widespread "dumping" of the U$ dollar as a reserve currency (which I am sure is also going to happen by 2009, if not in 2008), and a declaration of martial law by Bu$h to try to keep power and cancel the 2008 elections (which may be attempted after concocting an excuse to attack Iran), with an attempt made to round up and detain political dissidents in the hundreds of secret detention camps built around the U$A by Halliburton, then the result would certainly be REVOLUTION in the U$A, by a mob consisting of an armed militia, a horde of unemployed and homeless, and mutinying cops and military personnel refusing to obey their orders to crack down on and arrest dissidents. The results look like being rather ugly, by 2010.

[festergrump]

Interesting... That's a pretty vivid picture you paint for us Americans. You seem to know an aweful lot about America (past and present) for living in a country which stripped you of the majority of your freedoms already.

Are you warning us because you have already fled America in fear... or are you now simply ready to admit your fellow (born) countrymen are gutless and a bunch of pussies who will do nothing when push comes to shove?

America will be the last stand of Freedom worldwide and many Americans will once again lose their lives in the name of freedom. And New Zealand did... ???

Uhuh, that's what I thought.

[Joxer]

So the air force pilot's 5 year old daughter should be killed, because she's a conspirator in the evil oppressive New World Order? Perhaps not.


Right now, I agree with you. But right now, I am also sitting in a nice, comfortable hotel room.

Murder a child of mine, or a relatives child, or any innocent child, and I will not care too much about the murderers child. Would I go out of my way to kill that child? No. But if something happens then that is just too bad. That father has deliberately put his family at risk by being a traitor in the same way I'd put my family at risk by resisting.

War sucks. Civil wars especially suck. No one in his right mind wants one. We just might not have a choice in the matter. And if we fail, then there is no hope for the entire planet. We are the last line of defense. Everyone else is practically disarmed and helpless against their governments. This is some serious shit.

With every death, your enemy gets angrier.

Good. Let them get angry. Angry people make mistakes. You know (probably) as well as I know, that there is no room for anger in a fight.

We might not have nukes, but we do have numbers on our side, IMO.
And, unlike the muslims, we know how to shoot.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Australia (& NZ) has fought by the side of the US in every major conflict going back to the first World War. They have been major allies and solid friends. We should do what we can to support them in every means available if they should need our help. As for the civil lessons learned by socialists acting out within their government; that's their cross to bear. It's doubtful that they would re-gain various rights that they have lost.

There within lies the lesson. Loose the 2nd Amendment to an election of Hillery Clinton and it won't be coming back.....it's lost! Voting may not be a total waste of time. How many people did NOT go to the election that placed the wrong men in power down under?

[simply RED]

We still do not have nukes? What a miss!

[Rbick]

then the result would certainly be REVOLUTION in the U$A, by a mob consisting of an armed militia, a horde of unemployed and homeless, and mutinying cops and military personnel refusing to obey their orders to crack down on and arrest dissidents. The results look like being rather ugly, by 2010.


Rock on dude! I'm ready for it, and by 2010 it will be about time. Who knows what crazy laws they will start passing when they realize their power is waning.

[rangegal]

I believe this topic is to big for a single thread, somebody (perhaps me someday) should start a WHOLE FORUM about the revolution we shall bring to America.

A secure place where we can brainstorm, share our ideas and organize our plans to be put into action to change the things we don't like about the world, by force if necessary. I think it would be awesome.

You say we only have power (and a chance) in numbers, so lets start assembling our numbers!

Then again, a website that discusses "terrorist" activities that would actually happen would quickly be put down and used to root out the "terrorists". So there would need to be some tight security, and perhaps some sort of initiation or background check.

[Thermiteisfun]

Under current law, your whole post could be the one to get the CIA party van in your yard.... read this please,
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=6921

And this,
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=4682

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

[Joxer]

@thermite
Regarding your 1st link, that bill is still in the senate, so that cannot be a current law, as your 3rd link shows.

But I bet we are all on a list somewhere, for things we post here and elsewhere. No point in stopping now.

[Gerbil]

Murder a child of mine, or a relatives child, or any innocent child, and I will not care too much about the murderers child. Would I go out of my way to kill that child? No. But if something happens then that is just too bad.

Yet you go on to say that there is no room for anger in a fight. Contradiction?
He kills your child, you kill him and his family. Then another of his relatives kills yours- it's a vicious circle and fairly common in the Indian subcontinent.
If someone did murder your child, then I'd hope that someone would talk you out of doing anything reactionary. Revenge only works when it's planned.

And if we fail, then there is no hope for the entire planet. We are the last line of defense. Everyone else is practically disarmed and helpless against their governments. This is some serious shit.

America isn't the only country in the world, and it's certainly not the Land of the Free. Sorry to break it to you, but your government has been systematically destroying your freedoms for several years. If there was going to be a popular uprising, wouldn't the Patriot Act have been the last straw?

Some countries have a system where the people are the government. Neither of us is lucky enough to live in one, but they do exist, mostly in Scandinavia.

"Good. Let them get angry. Angry people make mistakes. You know (probably) as well as I know, that there is no room for anger in a fight."

When dealing with hand to hand and to a lesser extent, infantry combat, yes. But you're never going to be in a situation where a fedgov agent is practising martial arts with you.
Pressing a big red launch button doesn't require a calm state of mind. And in the world struggle you're describing, you'd be fighting missiles with semi-automatic rifles.

we do have numbers on our side, IMO.

Don't underestimate the power of the sheeple. Anyone mounting an armed resistance would instantly be labelled a terrorist and enemy of freedom. And people would believe it.
This is why an underground movement is destined to fail. You need dedicated popular support to overthrow a government.

And, unlike the muslims, we know how to shoot.

Yet a bunch of goat farmers with pirated Kalashnikovs has given NATO its biggest headache since World War 2. Why? Because they have popular support.
To reiterate, a minority resistance is doomed to failure.

[rangegal]

Wouldn't admitting to manufacturing and detonating explosives AND posting pictures on how to do so be just as bad?

Besides, doesn't it say in the rules or something that everything on this website is "theoretical"?

[Joxer]

Yet a bunch of goat farmers with pirated Kalashnikovs has given NATO its biggest headache since World War 2. Why? Because they have popular support.
To reiterate, a minority resistance is doomed to failure.

I'll just comment on this, since we have a legitimate difference of opinion on the rest.

A majority is not needed. Revolutions are started and fought by minorities. Our own revolution, for example. The Russian and Chinese revolutions too.
Guerillas are hard, if not outright impossible, to beat; if they stay within their strengths.

Where they are doomed to fail is when they engage in head-to-head battles with trained troops, just like the VC were wiped out during Tet. I have a tendency to believe Giap sacrificed the VC intentionally, since it wasn't a good idea to have armed peasants out and about. But, I was just a kid then, and I just go off of what I have read and heard.

I have no illusions, I will probably die, and that doesnt bother me. I have faced death before. Not often, but it's happened.

But it sure beats the fuck out of being a slave. Freedom is paid for in blood, and it might be my blood that helps pay.
Who knows what will happen?... I sure don't.



@Rangegal

It's not theoretical when people post youtube vids of setting off explosives.
That disclaimer fools no one.

I know that people are in prison now, because they posted that they have unregistered class 3's or suppressors.

People need to learn to STFU about these things and stick with posting the theoretical, but that is just my opinion.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

While I agree with you about the general perspective of Guerrillas being a minority of the populous but being able to make a great impact I disagree about Giap sacrificing his troops. I believe he earnestly believed that there would be a popular uprising during Tet.

IF there had been it may have been possible to have had a phenomenal impact that may have turned the War around at that point. Think about it....the North had a powerful popular support at the time; more so than most anytime previously. But the peasants had tired of war and those who were ready to sacrifice themselves did so. It just wasn't enough.

The War in Angola is another example of this. A small minority can make things difficult but unless there is an infrastructure level involvement in guerrilla activities, there is just a "blip on the screen" of resistance.
The level of Open Arms traitors and their equivalent in Angola makes the problem all the harder. The guerrillas need to be active within the infrastructure and they need to be committed.
The communists in Vietnam were damn well committed insurgents but they also had a great deal of traitors within their ranks.

[Joxer]

The south had their share of traitors and spies too, from what I understand.

What I see it coming down to, is how much the American people will put up with. We are a strange people; we put up with a lot, but when a ceratain line is crossed, then all bets are off. We can be merciless when pushed too far.

For example, look at how "conservatives" see Bush now, as commpared to how they saw him 4+ years ago. Try to find one that will admit that they support him now. It's not easy to find such people (outside of Faux Snooze and the brainless dittoheads) , because they have been pushed too far and they have seen what he and the neocons have done and are planning to do.

I believe that the crackdown will be the event that pushes the public too far and into the resisters camp when they see just how effective we can be(except for the welfare cases, they will riot when the checks arent in the mail).

When "it" starts, I just hope and pray that people keep the focus on just who the enemy is, and not alienate potential supporters. I see that as a real problem.

Just thinking about this, volumes could be written...

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Speaking of Bush; note that Bush the First lost popular support from HIS neoCon base from his "no-new-taxes" pledge and withdrawal. There ARE certain things that are the 'final straw" with the US public. However (from a personal perspective) I find that IF they are impingements on the believe system or oriented toward finances, the reactions are somewhat muted however heartfelt.

"OH, he lied about raising our taxes; fuck him; I'm not electing him (or his party) to a second term."

WHEREAS with someone like Jimmy Carter, his seeming cowardly actions made short work of his party's empowerment. ....But the only time I remember when folks wanted someone's head on a plater was with Janet Reno!

[Kaydon]

Joxer, look up Rose O'Neal Greenhow, and the Confederate Secret Service.

[Man Down Under]

Found elsewhere:

Notes from Seele in 19.08.2006
Some thoughs on new tactics the IR might come to use in Iraq (2)
by Seele on 19.08.2006 17:09

Plan for IR victory:



1. Start to make excessive use of tunnels. Dig tunnel everywhere - dig them under US outposts, and bases, put explosives inside and blow the invader outpost and bases to shreds.(Personal add-on: I d advice the IR to also create underearth bunkers in order to have invisible command bases and weapon storage rooms like the Vietnamese used to have - as well as the Hezbollah in Lebanon)

2. Urge the Iraqi civilian population to throw all their daily trash not onto one single trash place outside the city or village theya live in but to throw it onto the streets and roads. Drive by trashing the road, and streets will enable the resistance to hide IEDs everywhere alongside and what is best - directly on the roads, and it will as well force the US to spent much more money on minesearcher and streetcleaning personal etc..

3. Instead of simply riddling puppet police cars with bullets or blowing them up with explosives - better get intelligence on the single puppet officiers and clerks and make use of them yourself. Kipnap their family and then kidnap and press the individual traitor resp. puppet police guy of whom you took the family - to put on a suicide belt, tell him to go to work as usual and that he is to blow himself up amids his fellow traitors at the police station or US base he works in. When he has fullfilled his mission free his family.
This will strike fear and frustrate the puppet police and US soldiers a alot and it will seed more distrust between the US forces and its Iraqi puppets. This way you can also get to infiltrate US bases with suicide bombers - you simply have to kidnap a traitor IRaqi translator who works with the US forces, take his family hostage a day before you kidnap him and then apply the same tactic as above with the puppet police guys. This way you can get alot of suicide bombers into US bases. You can also to better resp. more effective car bombings against US convoys. See you have to do the above - but this time take the family of two puppet police guys who drive together in a police patrol car every day. Then you take them hostage. Then tell the two traitor about their families and that in order to free them they (the traitor) have to do a car bombing against a US convoy. So you urge hand over to you their police vehicle - then you riddle the side of it with some bullets and prepare the car a huge car bomb - give it back to them and tell them to drive near a US base, where you have prepared a roadside bomb. You tell them to park the car on the street so that it blocks at least one side of the road completely and then to call for US reinforcement when they see the IED going off telling the US that they were ieded by the IR and that they are still under small arms fire from 'insurgents' hiding nearby. And then having seen the IED detonating in some save distance to their police vehicle - they (the traitors) only have to wait. And because the fake IED bombing against the police car happened very close to a US base, (let say 900 -1200 m next to it) it is very likely that the US will sent a quick reaction force to hunt down the 'insurgents hiding in front of their US base'.

Tell the traitors that, when they see the US troops approaching the should simply wait and hide behind the car. When the US troops - at best several humvee are near enough the vehicle, you (IR) start to small arms fire on the US troops. In this moment etc. the traitors can flee the scene. The US will think : "Fuck this cowards - the simply flee". Now - if the US troops are close enough to the puppet police VBIED you may detonate it right now, or you might wait a little longer -hoping that the US will try to drive the police car beside or ram it of the road in order to clear the street, and if they do, detonate the car bomb at this moment. This whole ambush will at least inflict 3 -5 US fatalies - and at best up to ten.

4. For fast going humvees use infra-red or gust of wind triggered IEDs.

5. Create more complex ambushes. For example coordinated Mortar strikes which hollow VBIEDs and in-wait IEDs. What is you taking three mortar launchers like for example in this video http://www.sendspace.com/file/4jhxyg (DEAD) and fire them simultaneously at one specific US base - but together with them you need to coordinate more of such three-in-one mortar strikes on the same base. So built several mortar teams, for example 5 teams, do a time check and then date and launch a coordinated mortar attack with this 5 mortar teams from 5 different position at the same time at the US base. If like in the above video, every mortar team uses three-mortar lauchers to for the attack - and lobs 5 mortars from every laucher this gives 5 teams x 3 mortars lauchers x 5 mortars= 75 mortar rounds slamming into the targeted US base. What will very likey cause alot of casualties among the US. But before you start the attack you mine one of the sites from which you lob the mortars with very large IEDs, and then you park a old car filled with near to no-explosives/very few explosives in about 60 foot distance to them. And lay the dead bodies of two dead policemen you killed the day before - and which now are wearing mudjahedeen clothes next to it and more close to the hidden IEDs, lets say 15 feet distance.
(You may also ignite a dust-greante close to the scene to immitate the dust created from mortar lauchning). So after the mortar attack the US will retaliate by firing indistriminate rounds in the direction they think they were fired upon from. (Which is 5 different locations). They then will call in helicopter for evacauting the dead and wounded soldiers, and will their air surveilance will located a site obviously which was obviously used for the mortar attacks and a 'suspicious car' near that site. The US military will not be so stupid to sent its troops out to check for the car bomb but simply tell its air force vehicles that - there is a possible carbomb - and they ought to go and take it out. So a 30 min an hour or two after the mortar strike Apache helicopters will approach over the 'suspected mortar lauch site and the suspicious looking car' and blow the car up. They will call the ground forces inside the base and tell them, 'everything roger, we've taken out the car bomb - area is clear'. So again some hours later or maybe even the next morning the US will sent out troops to inspect the mortar lauching site were the Apaches blew out the 'insurgents car bomb'. The troops will find a blown up car like suspected, and two 'dead insurgents', which they will assume have been hiding near the place and were taking out eighter by the indiscriminate retaliation fire from the base or more possible were taken out by the helicopters firing hellfire missile onto the car bomb they had just put at this site in order to bomb approaching US troops. So they will feel same, and call the commanders that the car bomb was cleared and that when the Apaches bombed the VBIED, they obviously had also managed to kill 'two insurgents' with that strike.

That's the moment you can detonate the hidden IEDs. They will definitely lead to at least 3 -5 dead US troops - if not more. And together with the day's before coordinated mortar strike, the whole coordinated multilevel ambush has now inflicted at least 6 to 10 US fatalies, without you (the IR) suffering a single fighter !

..............




Some thoughs on new tactics the IR might come to use in Iraq (3)
by Seele on 19.08.2006 17:09

......

6. Also good tactic I think would be to target the last humvee of an US patrol with an IED, damaging it, then put small arms fire onto it - and order a suicide bomber do drive into that already IED-hit vehicle. So you can be sure if not the IED has killed all the US troops inside, what is only seldom the case (you will have a hint on this - when starting small arms fire against that vehicle - if the humvees crew starts return fire, then of course they're not dead) the suicide bomber will finish them off, and your small arms fire enables him to ram his vehicle directly into the humvee. So this ambush involves an IED, some IR fighters doing small-arms fire and a fida'i fighter who sacrifices himself. But it will always lead to at least (!) 3 US soldiers definitely killed, and often even to 4 or 5 US soldiers killed.
So its definitely worth it !

So @all I hope you see there are numerous ways the IR can defeat the US troops in IRaq, and I feel they ought to do it by intensifying the attacks, doing more and better attacks, which therefore lead to higher US losses. The IR also needs to monitor every of this big coordinated ambushes so that every day we get 5 -10 videos clearly showing at least 2 - 4 US soldiers dying - what then is a good prove that the US is lying about its casualties, and while furthermore frustrate the US homefront. If the US monthly death toll goes up, the support in the US for the war goes down and the pressure on the US government to end the war will grow and grow.

La illaha illallah !

All praise and glory goes to Allah, the prophet and the Mujahedeen


@all
by Seele on 20.08.2006 04:24

Here, I ve uploaded two videos of successful tunnel bombings against Israeli outposts, carried out by the falestinian resistance. And of course, if low-tech, poor equipted falestinian resistance groups can carry out such highly destructive tunnel operations against the Israeli occupiers, than the IR can do it as well (and assumably even better and with more lethal effects).

Links of the two tunnel operations 1 & 2:

http://www.verzend.be/v/4783484/hama...l1204.wmv.html (DEAD)

http://www.verzend.be/v/9217107/hamastunnel.wmv.html (DEAD)

I ve also been thinking of a sniper add-on method. From all we know, the US when coming under sniper fire, losing for example one man dead or seriously wounded, the US following moving away the body of their fellow bastard, use to search the nearby houses and skyscrapers for the position the sniper used when taking them under fire.

So a good move would be to somewhat booby-trap the actual sniper site in before. Trip wire or whatever might be used. Even though not 100% kill guarantee can be given, I think, leaving behind some empty ammunition cases at the sniper site, with one of the empty bullet cases being filled with explosives, or for option having no explosive filling itself but a wire on the bottom connected to a IED placed in the ground beneath the bullet case, so that when the US quick reaction forces collect the empty bullet cases and try to lift up the one connected to the IED beneath, the IED explodes.

For the 1st version (explosive filled bullet case) - since the enemy needs to move his head etc. down to the ground in order to pick up the bullet case, the explosion will very likely lead to him getting at least blinded and a frazzled hand. -> Effective but assumably most often not resulting in fatally wounding the invader trooper.

The second version (IED hidden in the roof-tops floor or disguised as brick of stone belonging to the roof-tops floor and pre-positioned directly beneath an empty bullet case and connected to it by wire). To do the method effectively, I think one should drill a small hole into the roof-top's floor, and place a small shaped charged or directional IED in it. (Maybe the size of 40mm granate or a little bigger than a normal handgrenade) Then conceal it partly with cement or complety with sand, and also put some sand on other parts of the roof-top. Put the case on top of the IED and connect it by wire. You may also put some sand or dirt on other nearby houses' roof-tops in order to not making it look suspicious. Now the sniper simply does business as usual. Shooting for example one or two US soldiers and then retreats from the roof-top he used to snipe the invaders, while leaving behind some bullets and empty bullet cases . So when now the US reaction forces search the area for the sniper and the position/site he used to snipe them, they will find the three or four bullets and empty bullets cases. They will very likely try to pick them up - in order to further investigate the caliber of it etc. - and when trying to pick up the one connected to the IED - BOOM ! This is a way to place as much IEDs as you want, without the US ( might it be US snipers or helicopters ) even in the slidest way being able to realize it.


Modified Short-range rockets - fired from vans and minibusses


Modify the old katyusha or grad rocket a little bit, taking away most of the rocket fuel needed for it in order to fly 15 km and in exchange increase the amount of explosives of the rocket. In general the problem is, I feel, that in order to inflict high casualties on the invader bases the IR would need eighter bigger rockets with more explosives and longer range - such as for example Saddam era Scuds or - like they actually to can only fire the low-explosives-containing rockets like katyusha and grad, because the cannot get very close to the bases and fire the rockets, as such a move would result in US reaction forces killing them before they would be able to retreat. But if they IR finds a way to launch rocket ( even though only one or two) from very near the base by doing the rocket launch from, for example, the inside of a minivan - the IR can without problem exchange near to all of the rocket fuel with explosives, so that the effectivity of the rocket is increased, I guess, up to 50 - 75% or even 300 % (depending on the firing distance). So if using a normal minivan as launch pad for the rocket - prior to launching the rocket from only about 0.75 - 2 miles distance to the invaders base most of the rocket fuel could be replaced with explosives.

Might be useful to know, post-crackdown.

[Bugger]

"All praise and glory goes to Allah, the prophet and the Mujahedeen". That is the false god, old Dog-Spelled-Backwards, who tells Muslim suicide bombers to go around killing themselves and as many other people as possible, especially of other Muslim sects and other religions, on promises of a free trip to Paradise with 72 virgins. Has anyone ever returned from that alleged Paradise, to confirm whether or not that promise of "reward" for such terrible crimes is true?

[Man Down Under]

The religion is kooky, but that has no bearing on the effectiveness of the tactics.

[Alexires]

Found this whilst looking for information on frangible rounds. Couldn't find a thread better to post it in that here.

It is called "DARPArama" (as well as DARPArama II and III) and seems to be a collection of posts regarding what's the newest of the new in the War on Everything.

Go there and you will understand what I am talking about. The mother section (Technosphere) has some interesting threads on it as well.

A lot of exploration into UAV's, infantry gear (solar clothing, etc) and US fuck ups regarding top secret interesting things.

http://chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=technosphere&action=display&thread=2023.

If the other pages don't work, have a look at the printable version.

[Rbick]

That is some awesome information Alexires, thank you. Its incredible to think that some of these technologies exists. If you had told someone 20 or even 10 years ago that these would have come to be, people would have told you that you were insane! I was particularly intrigued by the flying wing. Being unmanned, capable of 50-100 hour flight time, and capable of carrying 12 250lb precision guided bombs, I would not want to mess with the country with that under its control.

Seems like we will have a lot up against us when the crack down does come, unless we can put some of this to use against a potentially tyrannical government. The aforementioned government is hypothetical and I am in no way implying that the one that currently exists is tyrannical or crammed with greedy selfish bastards only looking out for their own well being and power :D

[phrankinsteyn]

Thanks Alexires, I found the link interesting also, a lot of good stuff there.:)

I uploaded a video of what appears to be a Hamas tunnel excavation and bombing to the ftp in the folder: UPLOAD/Phrankinsteyn. It may or may not be the one that the Man Down Under :) linked to in his post #235 in this thread (links were reported dead and I could not get them to load) but it is interesting. I do not agree with their religion or beliefs, but I respect their dedication to die for what they believe in. Hard to control a man/woman who has no fear of death. How many of us (I just don't mean those on this forum) would do the same?