Semi auto Sten Mk III

[tdog49]

Just for info on a new kit mod that should be coming out soon.

http://stenguns.tripod.com/id13.html

[tdog49]

happy day! happy day!

My kit has just arrived! $39.95 for the kit plus $33 in shipping....ouch! I shoulda ordered 2 kits..... ah well, its just money. I'll oreder another kit next month.

Still no news on the semi auto conversion. The BATF is not known for speediness, except when you've been bad..., so it wil probably take 3-6 months before any news.

[festergrump]

Is it a torch cut kit or cut into 4 pieces with a bandsaw? New BATF induced law requires torchcut kits these days, but if the kits were held up in customs, some bandsaw kits are still trickling thru. These would be the ones to get as the torched kits are scrap.

I've heard thru a source that Tapco has an incoming shipment of just such BSC kits in the very near future.

I have a few questions:

1. How does the barrel bore look? Clean? Pitted?
2. Is the magazine well obliterated beyond a welders help?
3. Do you dream of making your "dummy gun" an exact replica or opt for a vertical magazine alignment model? (I'm attaching a pic of two nice vertical mag remakes of the sten, though bastardized, they look quite nice).

I've bid on a few bandsaw kits on Ebay before but dropped out of the auction when the kits hit $50. IMO they'd require more work than I'm willing to make a nice "replica".

I'm working on an AMD-65 "dummy gun" right now which has lots of work to be done and all the parts (less receiver) were intact and unharmed (the fire control group was replaced with semi-auto parts, too). The receiver of a sten might be much easier than an AK clone, but the parts they send in the kits leave little to be desired, or so I am told.

Good luck to you... How about some close-up pics of the damage the BATF fucks require? A comrade would present better pics than a vendor, I assure, which is my reason for asking.

[tdog49]

Fester,

1. The bore looks nice. I ordered my kit thru www.interordnance.com, and they describe the kits as " Very good condition to Excellent" and I agree with that claim.

2. The magazine well is not obliterated. The cuts (all cuts)are made with a bandsaw and are pretty clean. Well... as clean as can be expected anyway. I mean they aren't "gunsmith clean" but definitely better than "minimum wage monkey clean".

3. I'll go for the side feed.

The hardest part of this particular kit is :

1. paying the shipping. OUCH! that hurt. like I said Ishoulda bought 2 to get a break on the shipping....$33 a piece almost doubles the cost......

2. the barrel is left inside its particular section of the receiver. On a mark 3 this means whacking off a bunch of blind rivets...... BUT try to find a mark 2 or 5 anywhere right now....theres a mark 2 parts kit on auctionarms with a current bid of $300 and a "buy me now" option of $450.00

I'll deal w/ the rivets!

I'll dig out my camera later, but for now just picture this:
1. the tube is cut right behind the barrel trunion.
2. the mag well is cut off the main tube. it is intact and still functions
3. the stock is the "t" type and completely intact.
4. the trigger group is cut off the bottom of the tube. it is also intact and still functions. and still has the rear sight on it.
5. No magazine.
6. lots of cosmoline and metal shavings !!!! absolutely coated with the junk.
7. the mains spring, bolt, bolt handle, spring buffer?, and a small washer like cap round out the kit.

here is the interordnance link:
/www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=INTERORDNANCE.com&Product_Code=SM3
and a pic....
http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/stenmkIII.JPG
http://www.interordnance.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/stenmkIII.JPG

honestly the kit I received is identical to the picture, I'll try and post my kit later but the only diff is that you'll get to see my sexy hands!!!

[tdog49]

here is another site offering semi auto conversions
it is expensive but still cheaper than the BATF fine for an unlicensed full auto ;)

http://www.semiautosten.com/

[TreverSlyFox]

The toughest part of a STEN MKIII or any STEN build is the "Bending" of the tube cuts for the "Mag well" and then welding the mag well in place without burning through the tube sides. A TIG is the way to go if you have access to one. The Mag Well is the heart of the STEN, get it too high and the bolt will hit the magazine, too low and it won't feed.

The STEN didn't have too good of a reliability reputation, but that was the fault of the Magazines. Keep the Mags VERY CLEAN and if you can find "New" springs for them, replace the springs. Mags are cheap at under $10 for the 32 rounders and I saw 10 of them for $39.95 last year from TAPCO. It's also a good idea to only load 30 rounds in the 32 round mags as that was the SOP in the British SAS to help with the mag problems.

I'd love to play with a Full-Auto STEN but the $200 Tax Stamp and about $2500 for a Legal STEN is too high a price to pay for a Bullet Hose, and the cost of an illegal Full-Auto if your caught isn't even worth talking about. Guess I'll just stick with my SAR-1, M-39, and CETME.

EDIT: The last I saw at the YAHOO sten9mm group was the semiautosten.com build was going to be about $150 for the semi-auto parts. But that was about 6 months ago.

[tdog49]

semiautosten.com kits are now up to $269.95!!!
crazy huh?

Trevor, bending the maglips is tuff however the new semi conversion I mentioned has an alternative procedure. Some of the kits (like mine) have the magwell still attached to a piece of tube. So you just cut the hole in your new tube, trim the magwell and weld it on using the old feed lips. Tig is great however OxyAcetylene is just as controllable (practically speaking anyway) and a whole lot cheaper.

Believe me ,as a father of 6, the last thing I want to do is play w/the BATF. My stens will stay semi auto. But as I have mentioned before, I am a gadget nerd and merely owning a full auto bolt and sear is pretty cool and a liberty most of this world doesnt have.....

[xload]

hello tdog49, do you know if interordenance ships outside USA an Canada?
Thanks

[tdog49]

They ship anywhere its legal to import the particular item you want. They use FedEx exclusively so the shipping might hurt.......

[lowjack]

They ship anywhere its legal to import the particular item you want. They use FedEx exclusively so the shipping might hurt.......


Maybe anywhere outside the USA, but as for CA.......We californians lost that freedom aroung the LAPD north hollywood bank shootout time.

[Third_Rail]

Um.... Sten kits are $50, tops. Why would anyone pay almost $300? :confused:

[tdog49]

Mk 3 kits are running up to $99 plus shipping Highest price I have seen anyway.
Mk2 kits (which are more preferable as to initial build quality) are no longer available on the open market, I have seen these for $400 + on auctionarms.com
Mk5 kits are currently available for $150 + shipping (many consider thes the best quality...)

[Third_Rail]

Crap, you aren't kidding... I was looking at Sten prices just two months ago. Availability dropped off and prices increased almost by 100%!!

That's expensive enough that making a Sten isn't worth my time anymore.

[tdog49]

well,
its been 7+ months so I thought I would update this...

I was really hopin to have a finished product to show you by now but, the kits are still in development and of course awaiting BATF approval.

thats all for now....

[THAT Dude]

I bought three kits from http ://www.centerfiresystems.com/ for $100 a long time ago for barrels, two are still unopened if you would like to bye one.:o

[festergrump]

IIRC, trying to sell items here at RS is really frowned upon, but I do know you'd have better luck selling those kits at http://www.akfiles.com in the Marketplace section. Often kits besides AKMs will pop up for sale there. It's a "build-happy" community with an amazingly sized population... :cool:

[EDIT: What with the barrel ban here in the USA having gone into effect as of Jan 1, 2006 and kits with barrels already here and past customs drying up very quickly, you might fetch a fair price...]

[Third_Rail]

festergrump, AFAIK the barrel ban was reversed.

[festergrump]

What??! Oh, I do hope you are right... Don't tease like this, that's cruel. Where did you hear? I'm quite sure I would have heard by now if that is true.

Everyone seems to be buying up all the kits already here and including barrels as if tommorrow is never gonna happen. They are buying up all the cheap Wolf ammo in 7.62 X 39 from overseas, too. It's been on backorder for some time now, supposedly because of the Iraqi tangle. 5.45 X39 is not to be had anywhere, either, and that's gone for good I believe, if you live in the US and cannot "roll your own".

I've searched and can find nothing more on the subject. If you could provide a link to the barrel ban reversal...? (you'd be the first person in the world ever to cause me to dance). :)

[Third_Rail]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/112205openletter.pdf

Small loophole, but it's there.

[festergrump]

I see. While this would mean that Mosin Nagant, Lee Enfield rifles, several Mauser types, and few others would be allowed to still be imported with barrels included due to their "sporting" capabilities ---> Stens, Brens, AKMs, SKSs, Romak IIIs, RPKs, ect. would not be allowed with a barrel due to the fact that they are not readily convertable to a "sporting" use (hunting).

So they're still taking away the barrels from the imported arms which "in their opinion" have no real 'use' to us everyday taxpayers.

Take note of the actions of the 'allowed' and the 'disallowed' rifles in question. Allowed imports are bolt action while disallowed are semiauto (most from full auto versions). Allowed are mostly Curio and Relic classified arms, disallowed are recently manufactured or still in action battle rifles. Why can't we import these again? Oh yeah, our government is afraid of civilians armed with anything remotely close to their own standard issue. I forgot. :mad:

Truth be known, I think that the BATFE brass simply shit their britches when they realized all the imported kits weren't being used for replacement parts for existing weapons, but instead being refurbished into working NEW arms... Uh oh... that means no serial numbers or tracing capabilities...

Thanks for the info, though, Third Rail.

Now I gotta tell you: It's gonna be awefully hard to make me or anyone else "dance" with a bolt action... "JUMP, motherfucker!" just doesn't sound right! :rolleyes:

[TreverSlyFox]

festergrump,

When I was searching for an AK kit the other day (picked up a Romainian AK-75 7.62x39 kit from AIM for $99) I saw several that were being advertised with U.S. made barrels. The prices were about $20 heigher than those with the standard Russian/Romainian barrels so it looks like our importers are already compensating for the "Barrel Ban". It might have been CIA, SOG, or J&G but I just don't remember because I spent the entire afternoon online looking around for the best deal. As I said I wound up at AIM which is where I usually order from in the first place.

The Barrel Ban really won't effect how many weapons/kits come into the country as our importers will just keep buying whatever is legal to import and make whatever parts that aren't. Yea, it drives up the price a bit but so far a $20 increase in price doesn't seem that bad for a U.S. made barrel. The BATFE is a joke if they think they can stop us from being armed. CIA alone imported over something like 450,000 FN-FALs several years ago when they were a hot item. Geesshhh was I dumb for not buying several kits when an FN-FAL metric kit was $99 at TAPCO, and they were good solid kits too.

There has to be over a 1,000,000 varients of the AK-47 in this country now and they'er still importing them and the same thing holds true for the SKS. Between the FN-FAL, AK-47, AK-74, AK-75, AKM-63, AMD-65, YUGO M70B1, YUGO M-53, PSL, SVT-40, SSG-97, SKS, Veper, Saiga, BM-59, M1 Garand, M1A1, CETME, HK91, HK-G3, MG-34, MG-42, M-1919, Sten, Uzi, PPSH, etc. and the varients of the AR-15/M-16 there must be over 10,000,000 semi-auto/full auto Military grade weapons in this country right now and more comming in everyday.

Plus the Millions of rounds of Military surplus ammo for all these weapons. Just in my own case I own 16 weapons and well over 10,000 rounds of ammo for them. For my CETME I've got 20 magazines and 4,000 rounds of Portugese and South African surplus 7.62x51 NATO. For my SAR-1, AK-47 I have 11 magazines and another 4,000 rounds of ammo and a NORINCO SKS. Plus I own 2 Military bolt actions, a Finnish Mosin Nagant M-39 in 7.62x54R with 2,000 rounds and a Ishapore Enfield 2A1 in 7.62x51 NATO. Plus Shotguns, pistol caliber Carbine, verious handguns in .357 mag, 9mm and 9x18mm and 2 good old Ruger 10/22s and compared to a whole lot of people I know, I'm a light weight when it comes to guns and ammo. Just in two Militia/Survival sites I belong too we're talking over 30,000 registered members that ARE stocking Military weapons and ammo and that's just a drop in the bucket compared to the lurkers there.

The BATFE has a long road to hoe to eliminate privately owned Military arms in this country.

[festergrump]

Odd. I've yet to see even one importer who advertises a US made barrel with a kit and my "AKM parts" folder of bookmarked links is over 30 strong (not familiar with AIM). I have, however, recently seen surplus Yugo and Romy barrels for sale individually for $60, but only on one site (centerfiresystems)

Maybe I am getting all worked up for nothing or entirely too soon, but the fact remains that this is another logical step in the whittling away of your abilities to manufacture firearms for our own private use. Once the barrels must be manufactured here in the USA (illegal to import) many regulations will follow as to the sale of said barrels, and it will inevitably become an FFL item, thus further controlling the sale and tracking of possession of arms by private individuals.

So far, it is legal to manufacture a semi-automatic rifle on a receiver flat, bent metal blank or tube without registering it as a firearm (the BATFE recognizes the 'better than 80% completed' metal receiver as a firearm regardless of it's addition to any other parts). It is legal to complete your own rifle for your own personal use without requiring any form of serial number on the receiver. If you sell the rifle, according to current law, you must include a serial number on the receiver and transfer it legally through hardcopy documentation.

Non-imported but USA manufactured firearms differ from this in the fact that they are already serialed and tracking documentation is available from it's moment of manufacture, but the hard documentation is still required by law in regards to transfer. Replacement barrels for US manufactured rifles and pistols are currently an FFL item IIRC (please correct me if I am wrong).

What's the next step, I ask you?

All USA made barrels will have a serial number on them and be an FFL item shortly.

I understand that it is ludicrous for the BATFE to think that stopping the import of barrels with kits is going to anything but put a slight dent in our ability to build working firearms cheaply... But as it currently stands, if it's an imported rifle it must have no more than 10 imported parts and a barrel length of 16 inches or better, if a pistol it cannot now or be "easily" (open for interpretation by BATFE) made to except a stock or have a front pistol grip, fire no more than one shot with each action of the trigger (one pull and release is an action, no "deadman's" trigger), and is openly distinguished as an "assault" pistol if the magazine is NOT integral to the grip. Surely I forgot some, but at what point are all these rules and classifications going to stop? When have we gained any leniency from the feds? The federal laws regarding guns get more strict every day but we don't see any decrease in crime.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that while many might see me as paranoid in my thoughts, and currently things can still be "worked around" regarding gun laws, these rights are dwindling at an increasing rate. Dwindling by availability, by compliance laws, by particular weapon status, and by ease of manufacture.

The Romanian kit you bought was a good purchase, I'm sure. $99 is a good price to pay for one. Take a look in 3 years and remember this thread because I truly fear that you'll not see AKM kits go so cheaply on the market. The Sten is a prime example, as are the AMDs, the UZ1's, Galils, ect... Suomi rifles are cheap as dirt right now because it's a difficult build with little or no following or instruction available.

Buy as many Romanian AKM kits as you can afford to buy ASAP, Trevor. That's my advice to everyone who ever wanted a Kalashnikov. You'll thank yourself for doing it in a year or so.

[Third_Rail]

Just bought a whole bunch of Suomi kits - the Sten Mk.3 kit I have is hacked to hell - the barrels are cut at the chamber, diagonally. Waste of $80, don't buy them from Sportsman's Guide.


Speaking of the Mk.3, I need blueprints so I can make a reduced diameter tube and turn down the bolt and really get started on the SA rifle I want to make.

[mike_fw190]

Just got my Sten MKIII kit in from "Sportsmans Guide" for $70. I think it looks great. It's "SA" marked and the metal and barrel look barely used. It is Saw cut instead of torch cut. Plan on making a Semi Auto. Here's a pic of the kit.

http://www2.netdoor.com/~mmilner/stenmkIIIkitx.jpg

[Third_Rail]

My Sten was much like that, but imagine the diagonal cut near the barrel through the chamber instead. Trashed the kit, for me.

[Yafmot]

I know this is an old thread, but are AK receiver flats still available? Lots of barrels W/trunnion are around.

[Hitech_Hillbilly]

Yes. Several places have them for various prices and stages of completion. Here are just a couple of examples:

http://www.akparts.com/index.htm
http://www.marshhawkarms.com/page2.html
(http://www.marshhawkarms.com/page2.html)

Plus site that lists how to build from those cut up kits (with videos):

http://www.ak-47.us/AK-Build.php

[file]

As far as a semi-auto STEN build, there are two ways they can be done. A hammer fired system like the one mentioned(which requires a lot of milling) and a striker fired system like used in the one semiautosten produces. The striker system costs a lot more, but they are a lot simpler to build(just like building a F/A sten, but with a reduced ID receiver and welding the selector in semi).

[armchairsapper]

Yafmot; I've bought many flats over the last few years and Ak Builder flats are the best I've used. http://ak-builder.com/

Since this is a sten thread here's some Sten build plans & prints.

[armchairsapper]

Ran out of room on the last post.