Hello Big Brother.

[Silentnite]

So a new bill passed through the House of Reps(for us U.S. people). Hopefully it doesn't pass in the senate, but something tells me otherwise. :mad:


The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally approved electronic ID cards, including driver's licenses.

Under the rules, federal employees would reject licenses or identity cards that don't comply, which could curb Americans' access to airplanes, trains, national parks, federal courthouses and other areas controlled by the federal government. The bill was approved by a 261-161 vote.

The measure, called the Real ID Act, says that driver's licenses and other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID tag. The Department of Homeland Security would be charged with drafting the details of the regulation.

Republican politicians argued that the new rules were necessary to thwart terrorists, saying that four of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers possessed valid state-issued driver's licenses. "When I get on an airplane and someone shows ID, I'd like to be sure they are who they say they are," said Rep. Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican, during a floor debate that started Wednesday.

States would be required to demand proof of the person's Social Security number and confirm that number with the Social Security Administration. They would also have to scan in documents showing the person's date of birth and immigration status, and create a massive store "so that the (scanned) images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format" permanently.

Another portion of the bill says that states would be required to link their DMV databases if they wished to receive federal funds. Among the information that must be shared: All data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards, and complete drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions and points on licenses.

The Bush administration threw its weight behind the Real ID Act, which has been derided by some conservative and civil liberties groups as tantamount to a national ID card. The White House said in a statement this week that it "strongly supports House passage" of the bill.

Thursday's vote mostly fell along party lines. About 95 percent of the House Republicans voted for the bill, which had been prepared by the judiciary committee chairman, F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican. More than three-fourths of the House Democrats opposed it.

Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton, a Democrat from Washington, D.C., charged that Republicans were becoming hypocrites by trampling on states' rights. "I thought the other side of the aisle extols federalism at all times," Norton said. "Yes, even in hard times, even when you're dealing with terrorism. So what's happening now? Why are those who speak up for states whenever it strikes their fancy doing this now?"

Civil libertarians and firearm rights groups condemned the bill before the vote. The American Civil Liberties Union likened the new rules to a "de facto national ID card," saying that the measure would force "states to deny driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants" and make DMV employees act as agents of the federal immigration service.

Because an ID is required to purchase a firearm from a dealer, Gun Owners of America said the bill amounts to a "bureaucratic back door to implementation of a national ID card." The group warned that it would "empower the federal government to determine who can get a driver's license--and under what conditions."



That's the entire article but for further reference or just to see the actual page: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-5571898.html

Sorry if this is double unplus speak, but I think thats fucked up.

Anybody else waiting for the government to install the ultra big wallscreen tv*s and start listening inside our homes for subversive speak. I know I am.

[Skean Dhu]

Oh, well if its to thwart terrorists blowing me up then, by all means. While we're at it why don't we all buy radio collars so they can track us 24/7 to make sure we haven't been contacted and turned against this great nations of ours.
I might as well go buy some sisal and tie the knot myself, It'll save the government a lot of money, money that could be better spent protection me from terrorists. Because heaven forbid I might actually be expected to to protect myself.
I wouldn't be surprised if by this time next week we had the McCarthy hearings back starting Terrorist trials. Theres no time during war to be bothered by all that red tape, we need to shoot people on sight if they are suspected of being terrorists.

I can hear it now....."Where are your papers!"

[knowledgehungry]

The biggest thing that bothers me is use of RFID. They started using RFID in a middle school recently, so the kids attendance could be monitored more closely... Fucking Bullshit.

[Pb1]

What these idiot bureaucrats don’t seem to understand is that stripping away layer after layer of rights in the name of security won’t help catch the terrorists. They will just go underground and do what they would do anyway using fake IDs and various other methods at their disposal. These bureaucrats don’t understand that these people are not merely professionals, but martyrs. Would tougher laws have stopped Jean of Arc, for instance?

It’s sad, really: in one fell swoop, the terrorists managed to set this country against its principles, forever vanquishing that definitive part of its identity. Now we sink deeper and deeper into the shithole, waiting for that time when the hysteria ends and people come to their senses.

[festergrump]

Oh, well if its to thwart terrorists blowing me up then, by all means.
LOL. You're right, this is how most sheeple think.
A sheeple "activist" would say, "If I close my eyes and wish really hard it will go away."... :rolleyes:

Once the government started tossing around the idea of issuing social security numbers to all the citizens way back when, there was an uproar. But we were promised that these numbers would never be used for identification purposes. Excuse me? Isn't this the most used method of identification among any federal agency or even some local agencies? If you don't have a drivers license (which most states now adopted using the SS# as the DL# as well) what's the next question asked? "What's your SS#?".

I can hear it now....."Where are your papers!"
Not too far from the truth. How long before babies born are required to have a GPS system embedded somewhere beneath the flesh along with an updatable microchip including identity, a full scale credit report, and a list of currently "unrevoked privelages"? [EDIT: I say "unrevoked privelages" because this list would most assuredly be smaller than the list of things we NOW have the freedom enjoy but won't be allowed much longer.]

Sickening.

[Jacks Complete]

The UK has just hammered an ID card bill through.

The man who started it on it's way, who wanted the power to track everyone everywhere, was forced to resign after getting caught having a secret affair! Which he snuck away to conduct.

Surely these idiots in power must be able to see that they are setting up systems which are open to massive abuse by anyone in power?

I am far, far more worried about the government going bad (new person elected, leader goes a bit nuts, etc.) than by a bunch of terrorists. The best the terrorists have *EVER* done is just under 3000 in one action. Compare that to Stalin, who killed off something like 22 million, 6 to 10 million during the collectivisation, over 6 million during the purges, minimum... Pol Pot, Hitler, The Romans vs. Christianity, the list goes on.

Compared to the ranting of a bunch of idiot terrorists, even the nicest of governments are lethal. See http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm#Tigers for some interesting figures.

I would rather not be killed by a terrorist, but, if it came to a choice, death by terrorist action seems preferable to death by government action, since I won't have been paying the terrorists 40%+ of my money for the privilge of being starved or locked up, before my execution.

And at least it would be quick! Even a Nick Burg-style (non-faked) execution only took a few days, whereas death row or life behind bars... well, that lasts as long as they want, then they kill you at leisure. Slow starvation or being worked to death in a gulag, well... Let's just say they are further down the list!

Down with the nanny state, down with 24/7 surveillance "for own own safety" when we all know that cameras only help with picking up the bits afterwards, down with the glass teat, down with a system that passes hundreds of laws every year, to no effect, since criminals disobey the law, and down with the daily removals of what were once eternal freedoms, on the grounds that 0.000001% of people might abuse it!

[me234]

Pb1, you're wrong man:

They know EXACTLY what they're doing!

As long as their infallible government tells them that there might possibly be a threat to them, they go running for cover, shouting they'll give up whatever they need to to be safe again.

The government knows this, even Julius Caesar knew this way back when.

So they keep telling people that they're in danger. Let me ask you this, how long has the US gov. been telling its people that there is still a threat from terrorism?

Whose signoff quote is it that goes: Franklin: Those who will sacrifice essential freedom for security deserve neither.

I say, if you're scared of bad guys, buy a gun and learn how to use it, you know the government won't be there to protect you if someone hijacks you're plane, or mugs you in the street.

I say if they want to give up their rights so that they can be safe, well fuck them too, it removes the choice from the rest of us who would rather live in danger, but live freely in danger.

This subject sucks, those assholes voting this shit in should read up on the beliefs of the those handful of dudes who first wrote that constitution, they at least believed that a government which governs least is best.

These moronic assholes have prostituted everyone's rights.

I would love to know whether they actually believe that this ID shit will save anyone's life, or do ANY good.

[Silentnite]

As far back as I can remember we've been under this Fear tactic. WWI, WWII, where we thought they might be able to strike us, so we lashed out. Even though Germany had said we wouldn't be bothered. The ENTIRE cold war, kinda like this terrorist war we have now. Cold war ended, so time for another idea.

I remember thinking, (and I feel bad that this is the first thing I thought of, instead of how many people will live) when 9-11 happened, "Hey, wasn't Bush's ratings down yesterday? And wouldn't this be a good way to boost himself into power?".

I'm sick of giving away my rights. I'm sick of the way LE does nothing for the common man except take our money. I've had numerous false claims called into the cops on me, and all have been sent through. I've had real problems and the cops don't care. It's who you know and how much money you have to buy off a politician.

A company just pulled out of a situation where they were going to give RFID tags to a bunch of kids at school to monitor them. Apparently some parents finally stepped up, and the company didn't like the bad press.

/Rant, Sorry.

And btw, I had it for a while as my sig, but I'm not going to take credit for something as widespread as Franklin's quote.

[akinrog]

Big brother always needs a scary thing to keep younger brothers under control. Just like your (actual) big brother says there is monster in your closet or under your bed to scrare the shit out of you for the purpose of keeping you standstill.

Recently I watched a (local) TV discussion panel about Islamic Fundamentalists. I don't know the autenticity of the claims made by the panelists but a few panelists claimed that call for Jihad was first actually publicized by Western media and researchers as well as movie makers during 80s. Given the ignorance of average shithead islamic fundamentalists, and their inability to publish a good phrased paper, I think this is very likely. Similarly our big brother US Government also needs a bad guy (i.e. monster) to keep us standstill. More fugitive and ambigious the monster is, better for terrorizing the citizens.

[Bert]

Big brother always needs a scary thing to keep younger brothers under control.

Yes. To quote from the manual for operation gladio (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/18/120.html) the most dangerous moment comes when leftist groups "renounce the use of force" and embrace the democratic process. It is then that "U.S. army intelligence must have the means of launching special operations which will convince Host Country Governments and public opinion of the reality of the insurgent danger."

[Anthony]

"The UK has just hammered an ID card bill through"

Grrr, first I've heard of that new legislation. I love the way they keep these trivial matters, of little significance to the average person, nice and quiet. Just like the new "anti-terror" laws that have just been passed. I heard nothing about it, untill I read a tiny column in the local newspaper yesterday. Apprently they stem from a ruling that holding suspected terrorists indefinitely without trial was illegal, so they've fixed it by making it legal.

Thanks for the referendum, arseholes :mad:

[Jacks Complete]

Bert, you sure they don't mean a few adverts in the papers? ;)

Anthony, I know! It is the Tonyranny of the Majority now. He has an iron grip, and every "emergency" law he drives through is yet more Stateism.

And the Tories? That Micky Howard is a tosser - what is he in politics for, if he is just going to agree with the Right-wing Labor thugs? How can he be an effective opposition if he turns round and AGREES with ID cards, when 90% of his party don't want it, and nor do the people? You can't ever win an election like that, since who is going to vote for change when there is no change to be had?

Looks like most people won't vote this time, either. Why waste time? You can vote for one load of Fascist's or the other, or you vote Lib Dem, who want to ban everything fun too!

If the Countryside Party stand, I will vote for tehm - at least they are pro-freedom and pro-gun!

[Kr36]

In order to regain our freedoms and curb future loss of them, we need to have representatives from all areas of the US to speak on behalf of those people. Of coarse, that is what congress is supposed to be, but do they really represent us? They do not suffer any of the consequences of their crappy legislation. They are immune to any finantial blunders because they get paid the same salary they get as congressmen on into retirement. They seem to be set for life, so why would they give a damn about the rest of us? Our loss of freedoms is because of the incompetance congress, they are only there to serve themselves by passing corrupt legislation, or just not reading the bills being passed.