detonating ANNM

[steelhead]

I am a little confused about the cap sensitivety of ANNM, some pages states that it is possible to initiate detonation with a commercial #6 cap.

This mixture looks ok:

1000G AN 130g NM 40g xylene

Has anyone tried it ?

[hinz]

1. Please Search before posting, you can find nearly everything in this forum and don't post such things in the HE section !!!

To say it in short way, for people who can make ANNM it shouldn't be too difficult to use a smallish booster (10g MHN, HMTD or NG should do the job). So you are sure that it detonates. For extra power You may add 10-20% Conc. H2SO4

[Brakkie]

Ok then let me tell something here.
I detonated quit some ANNM. I don't add anything in there just ammonium nitate and nitromethane. for about 120 grams of ANNM I use a blasting cap that contains 2 grams of AP. You might want to increase that to 3 grams just to be sure ;)

[Bozmann]

Does the AN need to be dried in a oven to be cap sensetive to 2 grams of AP?
I use AN from "instant cold packs"

[Brakkie]

Yes it has to be dried ;)
Cold Packs??
I just bought a bag of CalcAmmoniumNitrate and just bash it up to a fine powder and then heat it up so the water eveporates. Then I add the nitromethane and let it get in the AmmoniumNitrate for about a night or so. Then I mold the bag to a nice round shape and tape it off. Then outside just before the detonations I make a small hole in the bag with a pen or a key or anything and stuff in the detonator and light it up ;)

[sjaak]

if i detonate i take 2 grams off AP for 100 grams of ANNM it works fine
ANNM is sensitive.
I dry my AN 20 min in my oven then it is dry and it works for ANNM

[Brakkie]

Ok then let me tell you something about ANNM.
I use drinking straws as my detonator. I just put the AP in the drinking straw and make them 6 cm long. So about 2 1/4 Inch. I grind the AN to a fine powder and I dry it over a fire in a pan. It's one of those camping gas bottles. It has a volume of I think 5 liters so that'll be enough for a while hehe. Then after that dried it's time to add the nitromethane in the AN. I just add the AN in a little sandwichbag or any small bag you can find. I measure out the nitromethane and add that. I always use 1 part nitromethane on 4,5 parts of AN. So for 100 grams AN you need 22 mL of nitromethane. Add the nitromethane to the AN that's already in the bag and just close the bag and go around the bag with your fingers and stuff your fingers in it just to get it all mixed up. Take care that you don't break the bag because you'll get quit a mess. Then let it sit for about a night. That what I do. Just to make sure that the nitromethane gets totally absorbed by the AN. You should get quit a hard bag now. You gotta make the bag even tighter. So go press the ANNM together and make sure it gets as hard as rock. Then tape the bag with some tape. Don't use ducktape because you won't be able to stab a small hole in there easily. I use normal household tape or masking tape. Then go to a forest or anything where you got a wide space and you'll be removed of any houses, people, dogs, cats or any other animals. Birds will just fly away when you light the fuse. The birds here in Holland hate smoke hehe. Go stab a small hole in the bag and add your detonators and fuse. Then light it up and run away.

There are a few things that you could add to the ANNM to make it a little bit stronger.
H2SO4: I have seen that one on a movie but haven't tried it myself. I just haven't had the chance to test it but hopefully I'm able to test that one soon ;)
Methanol: I have heard that you could add some methanol to your ANNM to make it stronger. I haven't heard anyone that confirmed that one so far. Just one guy on the internet that claimed that it was louder then normal ANNM. I'm not sure but I don't think it will beat normal ANNM. It will beat ANFO that's for sure but ANNM? Let me explain something. In most racing shops you can get 16% nitromethane. It has 16% nitromethane (that's obvious hehe) and the rest is methanol. Well that won't be stronger then normal ANNM but what if you mix it yourself. Maybe you could beat normal ANNM with a let's say 80% of NitroMethane and 20% Methanol. I don't know maybe anyone tested it then tell us the results please.

Well That's all I know for now and my fingers are hurting now hehe.

[tomu]

...snip


Methanol: I have heard that you could add some methanol to your ANNM to make it stronger. I haven't heard anyone that confirmed that one so far. Just one guy on the internet that claimed that it was louder then normal ANNM.

Well That's all I know for now and my fingers are hurting now hehe.

If only your fingers hurt thats good, than you can read the proper literature it might be a revelation to you. Start with Patent US 4,093,478 Activated Ammonium Nitrate Explosive Composition you should find some really interessting insides.

[sjaak]

Im going to test my ANNM/H2so4 explosive to night i will let you guys know the results.

[Detonate]

ANNM ist quite sensitive! Since PETN is available for me I always use compound caps for the ANNM. It works fine. For these caps I use 0,4g AP and 0,5g PETN. But I know that ANNM without any additions can be initiated with 1g AP. For my blasting caps I use drinking-strwas, too. Be sure your AN is very very fine and dry. The ideal NM content would be 33,33%. The equation would be:
3 NH4NO3 + 2 CH3NO2 -> 2 CO2 + 9 H2O + 4 N2
But a that high NM content isnt necessary. I always use 20-30%. Usually 25%. And a full detonation is possible with 1g of AP. But what if you would first sensitize the NM with ethylene diamine and add this sensitized NM to the AN. Do you think that would be a better and more senstive explosive than plain ANNM?
I cant try it because I dont have access to ethylene diamine :(
Ah, and soaking-in-time is usually 1h for me!

[Brakkie]

I don't know if it would be wise to sensitize the NitroMethane and then add it to your AmmoniumNitrate. When you sensitize your NitroMethane with Ethylene Diamine you get the real PLX. I believe that was used by the army for a while but don't pin me on that. Why do you want to add that to AmmoniumNitrate. The sensitized nitromethane would be much powerfull as it is and not soaked in AmmoniumNitrate. I don't even know if it's safe because I haven't tried and I haven't heard anyone about it so far. The AmmoniumNitrate would only slow the PLX down.

33,33% of NitroMethane is way to much if you ask me. You would use a 1:3 correct. I tried that one some time but I wasn't able to detonate it with 1,5 grams of AP. When I use a 1:4,5 ratio I can detonate it with 1,5 to 2 grams of AP. You can actually use almost any ratio between 1:3 till 1:6. A friend of mine says that he uses 1:6 and he showed me some pics of how powerfull his explosive was. It was almost as powerfull as my 1:4,5 ratio explosives. All the NitroMethane does is asking for oxygen. In your AmmoniumNitrate you got 3 Oxygen molecules. Once it goes it goes. So when the first 10 grams goes then the rest will go too.
When you use 33,3% of NitroMethane it will use quit a lot of NitroMethane for each explosive. It would be kinda expensive.

About the soaking-in-time: Sure you can do it in 1h but I usually make it the night before. Just when I let my AP dry then I make the ANNM too. Why do it in less time I just want to be sure that it's all soaked in and ready to blow hehe.

Sjaak: What ratio's did you use??? I saw a 40:40:20 ratio on the internet. If you ask me then you are using way to much liqiud. I don't think that your AN can absorb so much liqiud. I would use a 6:2:2 Ratio or something like that (AN:NM:H2SO4).


Greetz Brakkie :cool:

[sjaak]

Yes the soaking time can be shorter.
One time i detonated 25 gram ANNM that was soaking for 15 min maybe less
And it works fine to me

[steelhead]

Thanks for all the good info.

What about charge containers ? I am thinking that old glass jars ( used to contain jam ) will be nice to use as a container for ANNM. I suspect that some types of plastic will disolve if exposed to NM.

[Pumba]

I pack my ANNM into a little plastic bag and press it so it becomes round.Then I wrap it with some tape until it gets hard and make a hole with a drilling mashine so I can put the blasting cap inside.

[rcfan1]

I suspect that some types of plastic will disolve if exposed to NM.

Nitromethane dissolves many kinds of plastic. A plastic beaker was dissolved when I tried to measure a small amount of NM. I think it was made of PS.

Any informations about polymers which withstand the NM are appreciated - by the way, what are the kinepak packages made of?

I assume Nitromethane doesn't dissolve PVC because of PVCs good resistance against polar solvents. Unforunately I wasn't able to find any information about that on Google.com.

[Positron]

Today, a .357 Magnum pistol cartridge was loaded with ETN at a loading density of 0.9g/cc (using 1500PSI from a homemade loading press). 0.3g of HMTD was hand-packed on top to initiate the ETN.

The detonation of this cap failed to initiate 23g of ANNM (22% NM) that was placed around it. The cap was placed inside of a plastic pill bottle, with the ANNM hand-packed in around it. As far as I can tell, none (0%) of the ANNM detonated.

The NM was left to soak into the AN for only about 1/2 hour, however, another member of this forum reports good success with only 15 minutes of soaking. I'm not sure what other variables (differences) there may be.

This may be a discussion better suited to the Erythritol Tetranitrate thread, as I guess it's possible that the cap's final VoD wasn't high enough due to incomplete initiation from the HMTD.

But I sure thought that ANNM was more sensitive than THAT...

EDIT: The Nitromethane came from Trinity Lab Supply. It is piss yellow in color, low viscosity, and smells very much like Isopropyl Alcohol.
The Ammonium Nitrate came from old fertilizer that has been tested as "good" in other experiments. It was dried in an oven, but NOT ground into a fine powder. It was more like a shitload of very tiny (1/16 of normal size and smaller) prills...but not powder.

[Cobalt.45]

EDIT: The Nitromethane came from Trinity Lab Supply. It is piss yellow in color, low viscosity, and smells very much like Isopropyl Alcohol.
And therein lies the problem, I believe. Nitromethane is more viscous than water and has its own (not like isopropanol) odor- smells "sweet", for lack of a better description.

I wouldn't describe its color as "piss yellow", pure NM is clear, but in practice there's usually a slight yellow cast to it.

It sounds like what you may have is RC fuel. Either with or w/o the oil that is added for RC use (as lubricant for that type 2-stroke engines).

If you can carefully burn a small portion of your "NM" so as to smell it, see if you get the distinctive odor of castor oil- even if you've never smelled it, you will recognize a decidedly odd smell as compared to anything else you've smelled, fuel-wise. Oil other than castor will smell differently but should be distinct. You may even "feel" the oily residue on your hands if you get some on you while handling it.

Or, try dipping a piece of paper towel into the fuel then completely evaporating everything from the toweling that will evaporate. Burn the dried towel and see if you detect any odor of 2-stroke oil.

BTW, RC fuel can be custom mixed in any ratio but commercially comes in the 10% to 40% nitro to methanol range, higher for some helicopter and other high-output apps.

The oil that's added is in the 8% to 25% oil to fuel range.

Sorry for this going on so long- I will keep it shorter in the future.

[Positron]

Thanks, Cobalt .45.

Ahh yes, the smell of burning castor oil. My dad and I flew R/C airplanes for several years when I was younger. I can detect that smell at a single ppm, brings me straight back to those still Summer mornings of battery chargers, cold hands from spilled fuel, and broken wooden propellers. But anyhow :D...I was unable to detect the presence of castor oil in my NM.

Having not smelled it, I did some digging. Literally, into the ground, with a shovel.

After filtering through 5lbs. of mud to find the remains of the cap, what I found was that none of the ETN in the cap detonated :rolleyes: Apparently, the 0.9g/cc loading density was too much for the small-ish (1/4g) initiating charge of HMTD.

Safe to say my NM is still questionable.

Long post here too. Thanks again for your time.

[Emil]

Positron.

Another tip is do not place your cap inside another container (I.e pill bottle). The cap should be placed directly into the charge. Having a container surrounding the cap deadens the impact of the cap, thus lowering it's performance. You are wasting the energy of the charge penetrating a pointless extra layer you have created.

[Positron]

The ANNM was in direct contact with the cap. It was all inside the pill bottle. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks.