Ex. putty

[John]

Does anyone know how to make explosive putty without using hmtd?

[FadeToBlackened]

You can only make explosive putty by putting an explosive in it. If you dont want to use HTMD, AP is your other big choice. It can be bound with nitrocellulose and acetone. A search (here or on the internet) would yield some useful info.

[John]

Is there possibly a way to make it with black powder??

[kingspaz]

i made a very small amount once using a very small amount of black powder and dextrin and about twice the amount HMTD. i added a little water and made the mix into a paste then put it on a stick to dry. it was only very small and when i lit it it went off withy a flash similar to HMTD alone. i didn't do any further tests but it could work if enough HMTD could be mixed with it.

[Anthony]

This is dumb. NC + BP makes binded BP, it still deflagerates without confinement and is used to make stars.

[SafetyLast]

Yeah Anthony is right I once dissolved some very old Double Base Smokeless Powder from about 25 .38 special rounds with acetone in a petri dish and when it was hardened it was a circular disk of black plastic-like material. it burned fairly slow and it does make a good incendiary.
I have also mixed SrNO3 into DBSP before and dissolved with acetone, that makes good homemade flares if you coat a stick with it.
(I wouldn't reccomend doing this with a fast burning powder)

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Is it possible to make putty with no NC ??
NC is very hard to come by in belgium (and would it work with homemade (non-double-based) NC ??

[SafetyLast]

Yes you can use either ping pong balls or styrofoam (sounds Ke\/\/L doesn't it?) but it works.
I don't know about the soluability of single base in acetone but the powder from .22 rounds doesn't dissolve too readily
ping pong balls are a little too expensive for the purpose unless you find them on sale or buy in bulk. I ran out of double base and used styrofoam with my left over AP to make half a toilet paper roll of putty.
I mixed the styrofoam beads with the AP and added acetone to it in a beaker. I let it sit for an hour and removed it from the beaker I then put it into a toilet paper roll that had the bottom pinched and taped shut. I used my thumb to press it into the tube and then fused it with 4 inches of red waterproof cannon fuse.
It took about 8 more hours for it to fully dry (yes slow drying I know) It was detonated in knee high grass and took out about a diameter of 30" of it in a very complete detonation.
there are numerous other ways to bind AP and Im going to write a book on that soon.
I imagine elmers glue would work well with no complications from the glue.
for the extremely ill equipped paper pulp and water (hardens to the strengh of a cardboard plug which is coincidentally how I make my plugs)
would work for holding AP together in at a suitable density (yeah sounds Ke|/\|L I know but whatever works and is cheap is good)
I'll try this a little later, you may need more pulp than I am thinking however.
I'll think of more later



[This message has been edited by SafetyLast (edited August 06, 2001).]

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Where the hell do you guys find all those diffirent types of fuse ??? And does anyone know where to get it in Belgium ???

Just today, a (lucky for me) very little bit of AP exploded in my hands (less than 1 gram)because i was using the "KMnO4 + glycerine" reaction as a fuse. (my KMnO4 powder was too fine to give me a descent delay)

If I want a somewhat reliable fuse, i need to crack open some fireworks, and that is really becoming a (expensive) drag :-((

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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[kingspaz]

you could go to your local hobby shop and buy 'estes' rocket motors. buy the 'D' class motors as they contain more powder for the your money. one pack will provide enough black powder for at least 15m of fuse.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Why dont you just order from skylighter or another pyro suppler?

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How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?


Explosives Archive (http://surf.to/alexplo)

[mark]

Forgive me if Im wrong, but im pretty sure explosive putty dosnt need fuse to be set off. It only needs wick(non oxidised fuse) to be set of. Just stick a sprarkler or ruber band into the ap for a fuse.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

ALENGOSVIG1, skylighter won't export to Europe, are there any known companies in Europe with the same general idea as skylighter ???
I've searched (google) but i can't find a thing :-((((

Tnx in advance

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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[Mr Cool]

Skylighter exports to the UK, the rest of Europe should be no different. I ordered fuse and a few chemicals from them, they came through just fine.

[mark]

Heres how to make visco. http://www.angelfire.com/on/pyrotechnicalities/visco.html Hope it helps.

[SafetyLast]

Thanks Anthony! you have saved my eyes from the pain of reading this Ke\/\/L bastard's post. We must exorcise the Jolly Roger demons out of this boy! (or ban him if he keeps this shite up, whichever is easier)

Moronic and lame is he who hails from TOTSE
Anthony 2-13

[-A-]

Brainfever, KMnO4 + Glycerine reaction as a fuse????? You even better use a piece of paper!

[BrAiNFeVeR]

I know use a thin line of BP (homemade) in a rolled up toiletpaper, and it sure works better then the KMnO4 + glycerine, and is more reliable !! (KMnO4 + glycerine has this annoying habit of not working in a small container, it react , but does not burst in flames)


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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Brainfever! Why don't you simply ask who lives in Belgium? THere is a good chemical shop in Brussel center near the Central Station so take a weekend train ticket and come check all the chems you can have for cheap. For 300BF you can have like 3kg homemade BP quite handy to make fuses for years.
Nlhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gifrogisterij de Leeuw,Laekenstraat behind the UGC-DeBrouckere bioscoop (DeBrouckereplaats).
Frhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gifroguerie Le Lion, rue de Laeken derrière le cinéma UGC-DeBrouckere (Place DeBrouckere)
Enghttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gifrugshop "Le Lion" Laeken street behind the UGC-DeBrouckere cinema (DeBrouckere Place)

ENJOY!

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Wel replace those http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif by : D

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Thanx Philou, i did not knew you where living in Belgium (add me to your icq, just search for brainfever, or get my number from my details) do you speak dutch or french (or both)? Can i get a catalog or something from that shop ?? (pdf ?)


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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[NoltaiR]

I read somewhere on another thread that AP dissolves in toluene because it is a covalent bond. Well I decided to see how this would effect some of my own style AP putty by mixing AP and rubber cement (which contains plenty of toluene). I will set it off tomorrow and see how it performs.

[kingspaz]

if it dissolves isn't there a risk or re-crystalisation? this could be very dangerous. make sure you use it before any toluene evapourates.

[NoltaiR]

This stuff is great! I set off two 7g charges of this mix up this morning and it adds a tremendous amount to the power. When it dries, it is not flexible enough to be considered anything more than a dry putty, it is still soft enough to stick things such as ignitors in (I stuck my leads about 1cm apart and just put a few strands of steel wool in between it). The first charge was most definelty underestimated because I had been using my little plastic blasting caps before that and they don't really to anything except make a loud noise and their power wasn't much more than a good commercial firecracker. But I put on of the 7g clumps under 3 bricks and set it off and when I went to go check, there were just pieces of the bricks everywhere. The second 7g shot was done in a small hole in which it made a small crater (but still good considering the hole was open). So from now on all my AP will be done this way.

It is also good because it is much less friction sensitive than regular AP and when a pile of it drops, you don't have to worry about cleaning up the mess, you just wait until the little clump quits bouncing and then pick it up. :p

It still retains its ease of ignition compared to regular AP (and maybe even a little better because the rubber cement makes it dry all the way through unlike the regular stuff which is extremely hard to get completely dry).

Edit: one more thing, due to this new mix that I have discovered, I have just had the motivation to buy 1L of 30% H2O2, 1.5L of acetone, 400mL of rubber cement... I am currently making my ice bath which will consist of a ice chest 1/4 full of water and a lot of ice...

<small>[ March 16, 2002, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: NoltaiR ]</small>

[Mr Ketam]

On the subject of fuse in Begium:

Your country is the only one I know where you can get viscofuse. Try the bigger fireworkshops. Those are the ones where we Dutch folk get our professional fireworks.
And NC should be no problem. You can buy it in gunshops for refilling cartigdes.

[NoltaiR]

Is there a new law that requires someone to be 18 to buy rubber cement or other inhalants (such as markers). I have always bought rubber cement before at walmart for my art stuff (BTW, I am currently working on a 2 foot tall Vietnamese guerrilla--spelling?!?--soldier made out of paper mache which is about half done). Well I have been 18 for 2 months now so it really doesn't matter, it just seemed odd when the lady asked to see my ID.

Anyways I tried to make a liter-sized mix of acetone/H2O2/H2SO4 last night but I discovered something really interesting. My ice bath only covered about half of the measuring cup--for some reason I thought this wouldn't matter--well it seems that while I let it sit for a few minutes, only the half of the measuring cup submerged got cold. So when I added my H2SO4 it dripped through the mix until it got to the level of the water on the outside and then it just stopped moving. After I had all the H2SO4 added, it was just floating in the half that was above the icebath.. no matter how much I stirred it, the H2SO4 just stayed in the top half. Well I let it sit overnight and when I checked it this morning, there was almost no precipitate!! (Probably not more than 4 or 5g.) The ice bath was inside of a ice chest so temperature was not a problem.. and my mix was a ratio of 10:10:1 of acetone:3% H2O2 boiled down to 1/5 the volume (probably not enough):H2SO4 (it is black so I could see the acids movement through the mix).

If anybody knows the reason why I didn't get anything, tell me!

[vulture]

Conc. H2SO4 freezes at 15C. It probably stayed there because there is an updraft of warmer solution and it was partially frozen, in which case it floats.

[SafetyLast]

I definitely think the the H2O2 is to blame, as more should have been used.
I don't think that boiling down H2O2 concentrates it,
however I may be wrong.
Im going to have to try that AP/rubber cement putty sometime it sounds like a good mix

[NoltaiR]

Well as I have said in another thread, I have now gone to boiling my H2O2 to 5% of its original volume and the yeilds have been incredible.

As for my work on the 'putty' of rubber cement/AP, this morning a 25g charge (unconfined.. just left as the clump) was detonated by using a line of wet KNO3/sugar mix as a delay (my mom took away my ignition box last week and I am still looking for it).. the explosion put a nice hole through a ¼" of iron plate not to mention that it bent it all to hell. You guys have gotta try this..

[SafetyLast]

I had a dream about APrc the other day and it worked great!

I made the AP using 100mL of Acetone, 60mL of H2O2 and 8mL of HCl.

After neutralizing and drying, I mixed in some rubber cement into the AP using a toothpick.

The clump of it was fused with 4" of visco and it was detonated inside of a phone book, the results were impressive, it was like a geyser of paper getting shot up 50ft in the air the ground 20 feet from the phonebook was littered with ripped up paper and some of the pages floated up to 100 ft. downwind.

pics of APrc and phone book are at this site<a href="http://www.msnusers.com/EWpictures/shoebox.msnw?Page=Last" target="_blank">http://www.msnusers.com/EWpictures/shoebox.msnw?Page=Last</a>

<small>[ May 01, 2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: SafetyLast ]</small>

[mark]

Thats awsome! Is your APRC water proof?

[NoltaiR]

Good job!
I am glad to see someone making use of the new 'invention' :p
But if I may ask, when yours went off did the detonation have any visible amount of fire put out? Sometimes when I did it there would be, and other times there wouldn't.. I haven't known it to affect the power given off but maybe that is just because I was never close enough to compare reliably.
And that is a pretty nice chunk of APrc you got there, did you happen to check its weight? (just curious because the largest APrc charge I have made was about 80g).
And a phonebook is a very good and safe idea.. other than my ideas of sticking the charges in metal pipes, or under cement blocks, or under steel plates which tends to make the ground zero a bit more dangerous than it would be if paper had been used.

As for the waterproof question, I have been able to soak mine in water for an hour or two and then remove it and it still detonated just the same.. so I guess it is waterproof enough (although after a dramatically long time like 10-12 hours you tend to end up with just a partial detonation). The trick really is just to make sure your clump is completely dry so the rubber cement will seal out the water better.

[0EZ0]

Noltair, where did you obtain your rubber cement from?

I am very interested in trying some APRC, but sadly have not found any rubber cement. What are the specifications of the Rubber Cement that you have Noltair, or anyone else? Eg. colour, solvent used, price, etc. Any info would be much appreciated :p

[Anthony]

Something that might be worth considering, what if a stray spark from the fuse lands on the lump of APrc? Sod's law says it would happen whilst you were lighting, or close to the charge.

[NoltaiR]

Anthony may be more right than he knows.. APrc is AT LEAST as heat/spark sensitive as pure AP. I was thinking the same thing when I saw that his fuse was so short running to the chunk of of explosive. When I first came up with the idea I had no idea about its characteristics and for some reason I thought it would take a lot more direct heat to ignite it... so one of my first tests (and yes this may mean I am an idiot) was a small 2.5g charge within a marker cap.. a match was imbedded in the explosive and another match was used to ignite that one. I was using those 3" strike-anywhere matches that have the KClO3 heads.. I was very fortunate that my explosive was still quite wet and there was a fireball and a small pop rather than a complete detonation because when I ignited the embedded match the head flamed up and ignited the explosive almost instantly.. because of the marker it shot the fire out in a straight jet that was about 10" long.. and it passed only an inch or two above my hand. If that cap would have detonated I would have been in trouble..

And OEZO.. I just buy my rc from walmart... but I guess any kind of arts and crafts store should have it. And I personally use Elmer's brand, although I did a couple tests with Ross's brand rc. The Elmers seems to be a lot easier to mix well and tends to be slightly more powerful for some reason.. Also I did a volitilation test by putting a 15g chunk of Elmers APrc on a paper towel and a 15g chunk of Ross's APrc on another paper towel... They were both left outside (in the shade) for 10 days with full air exposure.. after that amount of time the Elmer's weighed about 11g and had formed a thick outside coating resembling a layer of skin where the AP had evaporated and the rc had hardened completely. It was a bit less heat sensitive but a length of visco embedded in it was more than enough to detonate it. It wasn't as powerful as 11g of newly made explosive but it was still enough to detonate completely.
The Ross's brand, however, had formed a much weaker skin layer and only weighed about 7g. The paper towel it was on was always moist because of the sweat it put off. Upon ignition it made a very small pop (barely audible) and just made a large fireball.

Conclusions.. just use APrc in the same manner as AP.. meaning make it only when you are going to use it soon. Also less viscous rc like the Elmer's brand seems to work better than its jelly-like counterparts such as the Ross's brand.

[S. Toppholzer]

APrc sounds great! All I need to know is if AP is as acid sensitive as is HMTD - for then I'd like to try HMTDrc.

[SafetyLast]

I didn't notice any visible ammount of fire.
I wasn't able to weigh it due to my lack of a gram scale.
(I am back in the stone age :) )

The fuse looks short, but I had time to run 80 feet, turn around, and watch for a couple seconds.
I used Elmers rubber cement also, and it was easy to mix and worked well.

Anthony, you have a good point about the stray sparks this is why I will shield the
APrc from the fuse in any future experiments that I conduct with APrc.

<small>[ May 02, 2002, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: SafetyLast ]</small>

[NoltaiR]

And two more questions just out of curiousity, did it work better or worse than you were expecting? And could you compare your explosive with a commercial or military explosive (as far as energy output goes) that would make it more easy for readers to associate your results with?

[Rat Bastard]

SafetyLast , I think this would sound more fitting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

"Moronic and lame is he who hails from BOMBSHOCK
Anthony 2-13"

Here is some of the common posts at BS:
----------------------------------------
-How 2 make c4 or semtex?

-how to make a touch sensitive bomb?
does n e one know??????

-Black powder
Where to find it and good bombs using it

-Agent Orange
Ne one know how to make it?

-Fun with Snap Pops

-Where can I get these stuff?
KNO3+Sugar+Strontium Nitrate

-Big Bangs
How can I make a BANG with **Bombs**

<small>[ May 03, 2002, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Rat Bastard ]</small>

[0EZ0]

Thanks Noltair, much appreciated. I will have a hunt for it this week end. :p

[NoltaiR]

If I may comment, what the hell does Rat Bastard's previous post have to do with anything on this thread?

[SafetyLast]

I would say that it did a lot better than I had expected,
I didn't expect it to blast a hole all the way through the phone book
since it was placed near the top.

Im not sure about comparing it to military or
commercial explosives since i've never used them, but I can say
that the power output was very satisfying for me.

Rat Bastard was referring to what I had said previously in this topic on August 23, 2001. BOMBSHOCK is pretty ignorant, thats about the level of intelligence I expect out of them.