3M Security Glass

[Nicker]

In Vancouver, 3M is promoting its Security Glass with unique out of home structures which encase what appears to be real money in plain view of the public. News reports show people hitting and kicking the structures but, to date, the glass has held up to the test. While we wonder the sort or outdoor riots this could cause, we also think it's an ingenious method to explain the benefits of the product in a truly effective manner.


Im sure, if one could, the money would be out in a flash.
A little thermite at the base, could take the whole thing off.

http://www.rm116.com/photos/uncategorized/3moutdoor050217.jpg

[Boomer]

...and burn the money for sure.

Why do noobs think thermite is a cure-all? I would rather use LSCs at the top and fish it out. Or just an angle-cutter (?) with a diamond blade ...

[nbk2000]

And I'm sure they've got cops on stand-by to arrest the first person able to break the glass, as there's NO way that (if that's real money) they're going to let anyone make off with it. :rolleyes:

Theft, burglary, or use of destructive device (thermite, LSC), will all get you time.

Thallium or mercury embrittlement of the frame, then a whack with a sledge after a few days. :)

[Third_Rail]

Rather thick border on that... I'd place money (no pun intended) on it having tear gas as a reaction to being broken in any way....

[tomu]

What makes me wonder is that there are no scratches or other visible damage to this glass fault. No security glass whatsoever looks the same and certainly not so need after being hit or vandalized.

[MightyQuinn®]

Liquid nitrogen and a hammer used to break vehicle glass would work wonders I would think.

I have been experimenting with liquid nitrogen and steel plates at work....amazing what a little (ok, a lot of) cold can do ;)

[nbk2000]

I've read of 20 pound CO2 extinguishers being sprayed on the barrier glass in banks, the glass being whacked with a sledge, and the whole thing disintegrating into crumbs! :)

The picture was no doubt taken when it was first installed, not after it had been mauled.

I don't think tear-gas is permitted to the comrades of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Snow. :p

[Pb1]

Would they really put real money into one of those? I sort of doubt it, but then again, it is a publicity stunt.

[Brakkie]

Security glass can be defeaten. It's ment to buy time. It will most likely have a device in there that sets off an alarm at the police station. The burgler would need time to break the glass. Whatever method you are using. It will always cost you time. By the time you get to the money you'll be handcuffed and taken away.

Liqiud Nitrogen would do the job I think. Extreme cold is the coolest way to break things hehe. You would only have to worry about that you won't freeze yourself hehe.

[Bert]

Would they really put real money into one of those? I sort of doubt it
I googled on it a bit, apparently it's fake money except for the top layer. They didn't want to pay TOO much to find out just how bulletproof their product is....

[Nicker]

Thank you Boomer for pointing out that I am a 'noob',
for anyone else that would like some pictures of of people attacking the glass, and upclose of the money pictures theirs a small .pdf you can look at.

http://www.rm116.com/adcenter/files/3m-outdoor050217.pdf

[Anthony]

Back a van or small van into it. It's only supported on one edge. As the frame bends, the glass will either shatter, or something will pop open.

I know it's already been stated, but there is no way that would be real money. Far too easy pickings.

[Jacks Complete]

There is no reason for the cash to be fake - they are getting millions worth of advertising for the cost of the glass, the frame and any cash that goes missing! It may well be $1 bills under there, though.

Anyway, anyone *really* want that money? In a silent and easy way? As if by magic, in fact?

Is the outer layer glass or polycarbonate? If it is polycarbonate (or many other plastics) simply add carbon tetrachloride. According to the few sources I have in this area, it is the one major weakness. The plastic just dies. It goes all brittle and crumbly, apparently in moments. If the outer layer is glass, use an automatic center punch to pop it, then add the CCl4.

Chloroform also has an interesting chemical effect, turning the tough plastic into a goo by chemical melting. Once melted, it will happily bond solidly to another like treated piece, if connected and let for the chlorofrom to evaporate away.

The final carbon connected way has got to be to take a decent sized diamond scribe and just etch a break into the surface. Then use a pocket blow torch to heat it, and this will chase the crack through the glass. It will also trash the internal laminate structure.

Of course, without actually getting a hand on it, I can't tell you the prder to do things in!

Post me a few $$$ if you get any!

Canada must be way soft, though... Round here, the phone boxes and bus shelters can't even keep the glass in them - no cash bonus required!

[Flake2m]

Well security glass isn't invulnerable.
Besides theres no problem a shotgun can't solve.
There was a case of a Sicillian mob boss being wasted by in his "bulletproof" limo by an armoured gang that simply fired an AK-47 point blank into the glass.

Another thing is that damaging the "advertisment" would still technically be vandalism of public property, so there wouldn't be a way to get out the getting the money legally.

[knowledgehungry]

Well security glass isn't invulnerable.
Besides theres no problem a shotgun can't solve.
There was a case of a Sicillian mob boss being wasted by in his "bulletproof" limo by an armoured gang that simply fired an AK-47 point blank into the glass.


I'm sure that there are composites and plastics that can withstand a shotgun blast. The thickness of the composite might make its use prohibitive. I work with fiberglass composites and a 3/4 inch thick sheet will stop a .45.

[Third_Rail]

knowledgehungry, a shotgun slug at close range will penetrate most types of security "glass", and it will penetrate laminated glass even easier.

IIRC, the box o' truth did a test on bullet resistant clear polymer sheet.

[nbk2000]

The US$80 (CAN$100) bill in the mens rooms would be the best thing to take, as you can simply cut around the picture frame, through the wall itself, and remove it all, if it's anything like most interior construction.

Othewise, 4" angle grinder. :)

[knowledgehungry]

1 and a half inches of fiberglass woven roving will stop a .50 cal bullet, I'm sure that there are safety glasses that will stop a shotgun.

[Jacks Complete]

There are. A shotgun is not that hard to stop. It is just that most of them are quoted at 3 feet, which is very different to "point blank" on a car window, or, indeed, the usual meaning of pointblank, which is with the muzzle a quarter inch from the target.

A solid slug has devastating power compared to most things. "Interesting shotgun ammo and effects" has a fair bit about them which I won't repeat, but depending on the slug, it will go through the car without slowing much, in the same way as birdshot from an inch, except from 100 yards. I've shot one through a test "double brick wall" as well as through 3 spaced layers of 2mm steel.

The thickness required to stop a slug is prohibitive. They weigh an ounce or so, and are supersonic (some variants), so compared to street threats like, at the high end, a .44 magnum, it has about three or four times the energy. Use one of the semi-AP ones, and the hardness of the glass won't expand the slug, either.

As with all armour, though, it depends on the threat you are trying to stop. Stopping a .22 only needs a basic laminate, whereas stopping an AK rifle against multiple impacts at close range needs a whole lot more, and even then, 30 rounds will still beat it's way through glass or kevlar or whatever that is rated higher than that threat level. Only something like a solid steel plate would resist that many impacts, since it defeats the bullet(s) by not deforming at all. Glass and Kevlar (and any other "soft" armour) lose strength and effectiveness with each hit, in order to stop the bullet.

EDIT: http://theboxotruth.com/brglass/ shows a rather relevant test! :eek:

NBK, I would go for a toothed blade, like one of the "chainsaw" or toothed blades, if the outer layer is plastic. You get far less choking, burning plastic fume, and a faster cut.

knowledgehungry, what is "woven roving"? I know woven matting, but not roving.

[Anthony]

Interesting link.

I think the guy should have done the tests at closer range though. At least then he could have placed the shots properly to avoid so much overlap. I mean, that shotty slug was right next to the previous 7.62 shot, of course the "glass" is compromised.

Very interesting that the 9mm ball did a lot more damage than the .45 ACP!

I know FA about manufacturing bullet resistant glass, but my gut feeling is that cast acrylic is too brittle. I'm sure 1.25" of polycarbonate would fair better. Especially if it was a laminate of thinner sheets. Which is handy, as I've never seen sheets that thick for sale.

[Bert]

I know FA about manufacturing bullet resistant glass, but my gut feeling is that cast acrylic is too brittle. I'm sure 1.25" of polycarbonate would fair better. Especially if it was a laminate of thinner sheets. Which is handy, as I've never seen sheets that thick for sale.

The best set up is alternating sheets of hard acrylic and flexible polycarbonate. Gives an effect similar to composite armor, alternating hard to deform and tough to retain the shattered hard material. This is how see through blast shields around fireworks pressing equipment are made by some. I have seen a single thick piece of polycarbonate blown out of its frame still intact (except for a dent) by a shotgun slug- when used alone, it's too flexible and can bend enough to clear the lips of the frame.

[Jacks Complete]

Indeed. In fact, the flex is the biggest issue, since it means the lips of the frame have to be silly!

I've a ~1" thick slab of polycarbonate, which I tested with a specially made solid steel crossbow bolt. Fucked the bolt totally, and threw it back at me! Sure glad I didn't use a gun! I only just had time to duck. Took a fair chip out the slab, but a lot of the energy was sent back into the bolt, you can see this in the way the end is bent right round, and the fact it was thrown so high and far.

Compare this to a very similar bolt fired into a brick, and you will see the end is kind of smeared, with bits of brick in it. It stopped in the brick, which shattered.

Bert, using that trick you can actually make one-way bulletproof glass! Just two layers, hard on the "stop the bullet" side, and soft on the inside. The hard bits stop the bullet, and is held by the softer back layer, whereas the soft layer gets pushed through the hard layer, which falls away, letting the bullet pass. Not perfect, but still very cool! Set it to 9mm powers, and use 9mm against traffic stop 9mm! Don't forget to armour the door though!

Note: I keep getting "Server too busy"... Perhaps you need to turn off the preview options in the thread views, Mega? Having the clever advance view of the thread when you hover on the topic is neat and nice, but the load on the server seems too high. :-(

[Anthony]

JC, that very idea was on Tomorrow's World many years ago :)

[Jacks Complete]

Hahaha! Rumbled!

I remember seeing it. They got a copper to shoot a pistol at it, then span it round and shiot it from the other side, and it worked. I also remember they said that the idea was being patented, and that it was really secret, the inventor not wanting them to know how it worked and refusing to guive them a sample to test. Boy, he must have been pissed off when the show aired, complete with slo-mo camera and video graphics to show *exactly* how it worked!

I posted about it in another thread on bulletproof glass a while back. The main weakness is that you are only able to protect against a small range of bullet powers, and your gun has to be of a comparable power. Using a handgun from inside while a rifle-stopping thickness was on the car would mean your pistol round would come right back at you!

[nbk2000]

A pistol is something you use to fight your way to your rifle. You don't want to get in a gunfight with a pistol if you can use a rifle, and any adversaries worth worrying about ambushing you will be using rifles too, so you'd want to use rifle-level protection anyhows. :)