Chimeric Breeders

[nbk2000]

Realistically, it's only possible for a human female to have one child per year for a total of about 5 children, before her reproductive organs become damaged.

While, during her lifetime, she'll produce several hundred viable eggs, each of which could become a child if a suitable host for its development was present.

Now, to postulate:

1 female = 200 potential children

1 female = ~5 live children

200 potential - 5 actual = 195 wasted

These numbers are intolerable as concerns the White race!

Thanks to technological advances in reproductive sciences, as well as genetics, there have been experiments in the production of an artifical womb, in which an egg could be grown to term outside of a human female host.

While this is a good step towards racial dominance, it's insufficient, because of the high material resources that'd be required.

What I feel would be a better use of investment would be to develop a suitable animal host in which to grow the fertilized eggs of Humans, freeing the Aryan race from the constraints of natural biological reproduction, allowing us to outbreed the enemy races.

Imagine, if you can, a host animal that has been gentically altered into a chimeric host for human fetuses to develop in.

A cow, for instance, could easily hold five babies in it with room to spare.

Now, in the time it takes one human female to produce one child, one breeder cow could produce five.

One Ayran female, who's fertile eggs are collected over her reproductive lifetime (15 to 30-something, so 15+ years), could produce 200 children, with 40 to 200 chimeric animal breeders, a feat that it'd take 40 mud females to duplicate.

Since we whites are outnumbered 'only' 20 to 1, this technology would give us a 2-1 advantage in reproductive duplication. :)

If all of the Aryan womans viable eggs were forced out at once through hormonal manipulation (at the expense of subsequent sterility) than you could produce 20 children in the time it takes a mud to push out one.

Numerical superiority is thus achieved! :)

Of course, this will never happen in the US or Europe, where such research is thwarted at every turn by the liberal lap dogs of the jews, who know that such reproductive technologies only benefit Whites, because the muds are too poor to be able to afford it, thus all such technologies must be suppressed to allow the continuing dilution of the White race in a sea of brown.

:mad:

Notice how the chinese have no imposed no such limitations on their reproductive scientists, even though they enforce birth control on their own population? Why? Could it be so that they can rapidly replace a massive population loss after a nuclear war with russia?

We know that, historically, there's been Sino-Chinese conflict for centuries and that, dispite ideological alingment, that the hostility is just as strong now as it has been for centuries, and the two sides still aim their nukes at each other.

It's because of this hatered that the russians refuse to give up their nuclear arsenal, despite everything, because they know that their nukes are the only thing that can hold off a chinese invasion, and the chinks know this.

The chinese can form a 100 million man army and invade russia. Russia proceeds to nuke everything in eurasia. Half of the chinese army dies, along with a billion more asians, but the remaining 50 million are enough to wipe out russia.

Now, in order to assume control of all of asia, the chinks must rapidly outbreed the survivors of the surrounding countries, to establish chinese racial hegomony throughout the asian region.

Asian folklore is replete with tales of humans borne of animals, so this idea is not at all foreign to them, something I'm sure their leaders will utilize.

Underground animal farms scattered throughout china support millions of breeder animals, producing tens of millions of chinese babies in just a few years, and within a couple of decades completely replacing the entire lost population of asia, and then some, with chinese.

America slaughters millions of cows every year. If each of those cows were to produce 5 babies before slaughter, than you could replace the entire population of california in a year, and the entire US in a decade!

Naturally, there's other considerations to consider, such as how you care for so many babies, but that'd be a trifle compared to actually producing them in the first place.

[Isotoxin]

I don't know about this idea NBK. By introducing so many new babies, white or otherwise, into the world it decreases resources for those already alive. I don't care about the earth but quality of life could suffer for us here in America. A subtle system of economic and political changes to place more and more blacks into ghettos and reduce the number that leave seems a better option. Segrigation not by law but by economic power will make it so black rights groups have no single thing to point at but instead a subtle shift towards more blacks becoming poor and living in decay and strife. Areas of land must of course be given up to house them but its a small price to pay. Some important things must however be done:

Create propaganda that shunts blacks into low paying jobs yet creates the illusion they are impoving their lives
Impove police forces to keep violent blacks(all blacks living in the ghettos) away from the good areas of town
Economic descrimination to force the blacks into public housing - this gives the government power to search their 'homes' at any time
Creation of 'black culture' to give them a sense of identity and keep them docile while rescricting them from real though provocting information


I myself have no general dislike for blacks as long as they are not poor blacks(who have no place in America)

[Zio Matrix]

That 20:1 statistic is worldwide, right? If so, it's not relevant. We still outnumber the shitskins in America and Europe, and that's all that really matters. The niggers in Africa haven't the technology or resources to be a threat; in order to bring about worldwide Aryan dominance, we would only need to control America and the various nuclear-capable European nations. The population of mainly nigger-dominated areas isn't relevant because once nuclear weapons (I.e. the only way a 3rd world nation can fight back against an industrialized nation) are safely in Aryan hands, it'll be a very simple matter to sterilize Africa with massive chemical warfare attacks/carpet bombing/etc.

[Silentnite]

If you would have read NBKs other threads, he is proposing an idea to sterilze the muds, meaning that while we are breeding more of the Aryan race, we will also be cutting off the muds ability to breed. In 50 years when they have died off, then the Whites will take the place. It would work if you had enough money to implement it, but as NBK noted, it will be rather hard to do in liberal congress.

I would state the standard disclaimer that I have nothing against blacks that are decent, law-abiding people, but it sounds so shallow. I dont though. Oh! And the of-quoted, *I even have some black friends*. /disclaimer

[nbk2000]

Keeping them in ghettos hasn't worked so far, because they simply venture forth out of their slum nests at night to rape and pillage amoung the surrounding white neighborhoods. :mad:

As AH said, only TOTAL war, with the extinction of the losers, will permanently solve the racial issues. :)

Anyways, the issue of discussion isn't about the racial issue, but the technology of animal breeders for humans. Think it possible?

[Silentnite]

Easily possible. Its a sound theory, and I think it would be quite feasible given todays current technology. They are currently breeding cows, and rats and other animals with human parts in them. This is just one more step. I think the one hold up would be the supply of blood, is a cow*s blood different then a humans?

[nbk2000]

Yes, it is, but the cows would be altered to be compatible, meaning proper blood supply, hormonal cycles, etc.

This could easily cost billions of dollars in research to achieve, but for the cost of a single stealth bomber, you could more effectively win the war than all the bombs that plane could ever drop, even if they were nuclear. :)

[Jacks Complete]

Interesting idea. Scary idea. You are on form, NBK!

From what I know of bio-engineering, what you suggest isn't possible. You could create some form of trans-genic breeder animal, but the immune system, blood type, physical size, etc. issues would be immense. It probably wouldn't be possible for twenty years.

It might be better to go the other way, and develop a womb from a modifed human zygote. Or you could simply lobotomise some of your sterile targets from the other thread, and use them as breeders - just chain them up and inseminate them! Of course, then there are legal issues and human rights... Might have to pretend to be a fertility clinic or something... or do it in secret, underground. (see below)

Your last comment is right, though. You could more effectively win the war. Or power, or whatever. After all, a democracy with your clone as 50% of the voters would be no different to a dictatorship, unless you were in two minds about something! ;-)

I heard a theory about the Chinese having a system whereby they took a team of men into the mountains, and gave them picks, shovels, etc. and told them to dig. They would dig for a while, then be replaced by another team, and so on. Hundreds of these teams, all just digging tunnels, ready for use by whoever, later on. None of the conscripts knew where the tunnels were - they were/are underground - so security was tight.

Expanding on this rumour, after a year, you would have miles worth of tunnels all over the place, in the sides of mountains. Fit them all with a blast door, and then turn them into whatever you fancy. Disappear a few thousand people for use as slaves and breeders, fit the place with a bat-phone for contact from high command, make them self-sufficient. Kind of like a submarine.

The issues you have are
1) Air
2) Water
3) Food
so you would have to get things worked out. You want to re-cycle the air so as not to give yourself away to American CO2 sniffers (IR crop satellite will do!) and heat sensors from exhausts. Recycle water for the same reason, and grow food. Then breed! Train the kids as warrior monks, or whatever. Since it isn't costing you anything any more, you have free labour, etc. so you can then start to undermine the entire economy of anywhere.

You collect the results of the labour, and pay them with whatever you like - they haven't ever seen an advert for playstation, so they aren't going to miss it! Pay them with Smarties or coffee. And since you have it set up like a cargo cult, they worship and fear you. They know nothing of the outside world, and fear of the instant death (whatever you think of) keeps them in.

Use those lovely electric shock/explosive collars. They know nothing of life without them. Or perhaps the trick with the funny protein from Jurassic Park as an additive in the water...

I'm sure this thread will come up with a lot of ways to "farm".

Actually, reversing this idea, you could use these as the ghettos... hmm...

[Silentnite]

That would be kinda ironic. Using muds as breeding farms against themselves. Be cheaper too.

I cant help but picture The Matrix movies where it showed the thousands upon millions of these little breeder pods. :cool:

[FUTI]

Old population domination idea rise again. It didn't died from begining of time till now.

If you look very carefully at least two distinct population groups are conducting that kind of silent slow war strategy namely Arabs and Jews. Good follower of islamic belief should have according to Koran at least 4 wives (race isn't much of an issue for most of them) that would give him the next generation, if he can support more wives he should have as many as he wish. Their opponents (in religious and teritorial meaning) Jews conduct at first glance reverse strategy. If the child is born by Jewish woman it is Jew by birth (that is the reason why Germans during WWII look very closely on genealogy of people in teritories they controled). Anyway all reasoned out that slowest point of human reproduction is female population production cycle and try to use it to their benefit to maximum effect obtainable.

Well appart from available resources I find it backward from gene-pool point since races and nations are different very much from this point and if you start propagating only one small set of genes it can possibly be detrimental to human race at some future timeline point. So far human promiscuity stoped us to have clean example of this, but one clear example exist in plant world. It is claimed that Great Hunger in Ireland could be stoped if only Irish had more then one variety of potato plant but they didn't so the pest that contaminated crop destroyed it completely. If you look above mentioned strategies they aren't bad in that matter since nationality (gene set) of one parent is irrelevant in that process. But then again what is achieved? If the starting point for this was "get rid of these worthless scum", and we base our assumption that they are worthless because of their genetic set is corrupt/false/flawn then dissolving/diluting our gene set is wrong, so acctualy if we win and victorious race claim that they are "proud Arians" they aren't and maybe have gained some of the properties of "worthless scum" trough their preserved gene set present in the whole pool. Statistic is bitch and AFAIK there is no clear calculus possible that would clearly say this % of population A gene you must preserve in the overall pool not to disturb the balance and to allow the dominant position of population B.

If the way of life, phylosophy or belief is that you find relevant then above Arab/Jew strategy or cultural domination and assimilation is the key but AFAIR there is no known example of culture that is assimilated after it achived literacy and history concept.

The breader idea would stop our gene set dilution but returned problem to the start - not enough gene diversity. I can say that price for making one cow brider is huge and Silentnite saw big problem correctly - blood. Although blood of fetus and "breader" aren't same - as they aren't in direct contact (child of HIV carrier can but doesn't have to be HIV carrier - contamination risk is highest at birth), in early part of life (up to 6 months IIRC) child immune system depend on the mother aquired segments (I really can't remember which they are I suspect on antibodies). Imagine child with cow antibodies inside that is recipe for autoimmune disease.

So I'm in dead-end cycle...can't solve this problem. I put the ethics aside and used as much as I know (at this time) scientific/technical aproach to the proposed problem. The best I have so far is...Darwin rules. If we had hedonistically forgot how to have children and lower our general output by slow population growth then maybe we are the population A that should be preserved only for gene pool completness. So go and do some work on reversing this problem guys;)

[Jacks Complete]

Think GATTACA.

No need to have a narrow set of genes at all, as there are no diseases that tailor to kill blond haired people.

It is interesting to look at sickle-cell anemia, though. A defective haemoglobin gives a huge advantage against maleria, espcially for African blacks who are eating lots of dead antelope, which is rich in iron. Move them to Ireland to eat potatoes and they drop like flies.

Also, if you can clone the breeding units, you are sorted. Just grow them in other breeders! It is a self-replicating factory.

Of course, I don't see this as the way forward. I foresee far lower populations due to the robotisation of the world as more likely. Why pay to raise hundreds of dumb human leeches when you can not use them, but use a robot instead? Massive robot armies for protection, labour, etc. due to simple cost and economic pressures.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: what you said is both true and false. We don't know any disease that is selective in targeting one of the human races. But I read long ago that basically concept of microbiological genocide is possible since there were proofs that some virus that in white people cause slight flu/cold is linked as cause of rare types of cancer in black population. This is highly speculative idea since Scandinavian and black population share some genetic similarity I think lower tolerance to salicilate is one of them so this "targeting" is little scary - sniper with blindfold on.

So generaly larger the pool better chances are that mass extermination isn't possible, and that larger get pool is more likely to generate and find faster solution to some new possibly spontaneously formed disease as number of combination is rising with high variety.

We are geneticaly diferent and for example yellow race has lower tolerance to lactose and ethanol, black people have larger muscle weight (not to mention that my friend that is biochemist claim that our aminoacid composition is statistically diferent) etc.

Is race mixing good or bad? I don't know. But there are few indirect examples negative sides of mixing of close gene sets. Toulouse Lautrec's parents were close relatives, and frequency of genetically inherited diseases is higher in one part of Jewish population (I can't remember which - but as usual religion is fragmented in number of suborders and since it is not the mine religion I'm not particulary interested) that allow marriage among close relatives.

Cloning a breader is OK, but problems until you make one are horible. Difference among species isn't something easy to cross, especially in a tailored way. But anything can be done with a enough "stimulans" (money) and work/time.

Make a new Chinese wall to protect yourself, tell everyone to stay where they are as that is their natural habitat (as you cleverly put with sickle cell anemia), but don't pretend to be politically correct and plan mass extermination of opponents. Please don't get my post in wrong way. I don't try to put you down or insult in some way, just writing what I had in mind. Greeks were on higher civilisational level compared to Rome but failed in front of their swords. That is what frightens us all. We were faster developing part of the world, can we sustain our position as leaders or we fall under domination of outnumbering population of third world countries. Robots will bust our economic output but I doubt that they can protect us from ground troups in some point in time.

[akinrog]

Endogamy (or more extremely marrying to close relatives) are nightmare. Don't forget a great deal of European royal families are hemophiliac. Since royal families marry the members of royal families this disease became dominant in many children.

[nbk2000]

Breeding people is 'lo-tech', even if they came out of gen-eng'd cows. :)

Plus, it'll be many many years till a robot is as adaptable and capable as a human being, for anything, so people are the way to go.

And, as any sci-fi fan knows, reliance on machines makes the people who make them dependant on them, to the point of being incapable of functioning without them.

We're seeing this now in western societies, with people depending on their lard conveyors (cars) to get around because they're too soft to walk even a few blocks to the grocery store to buy their diet food.

Compare this to the 3rd world tribal-warrior (any male over 8 y.o. :p) who has walked and ran his whole life, knows nothing but pain and hunger, and has no reason to live, but plenty of reasons to kill.

Multiply the 3rd worlders birth rate of at least 3x to the -.1 of the west, and see the trend for what it is.

Our technology has made our army powerful, but the citizens soft, and this is what loses wars (hot, cold, or racial)...soft citizens.

The Romans lost their empire because the citizens were more interested in circuses than conquest, and fucking their slaves than killing them.

The Spartans had hard citizens, and they kicked everyones butt, but they disappeared because they didn't have any economy.

[FUTI]

Well in a sense breeding people inside other people is posible as there were some doctor (crazy mad scientist;)) few years ago that claimed that today is posible for a male to completely carry out pregnancy (with implanted uterus of course - I wonder where is the gigantic leap forward in this) since it can be exposed to appropriate therapy of steroid hormones and some other stuff I don't remember (well it was more then 5 years ago).

If that is true (and I wondered where did the Hollywood find stupid ideas for it's scripts - remember that Arnie's film) then one step is made - some immune system response can be tammed so NBK is rigth saying it's lo-tech. But animal breeder system sound much difficult although much more reasonable.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, You want to destroy the guy? The doses of hormone alone... and something that size coming out your ass? Or through your abs with a knife?

Better to transplant the womb into the cow!

[Skean Dhu]

Jack raises an important point, if the whole purpose of this excercise is to multiply the fighting force for a specific race or physiology, why would you waste a perfectly good body on raising another that will take some years to grow and train, when you have plenty of 'useless' bodies milling around.

Also they already have created a pig that has human compatible blood flowing through it, so now all they need to figure out is how to get it to raise a human fetus in its body.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I agree, but I didn't proposed anything. I just paraphrased the read article few years old. Doctor in the article proposed that and I believe the birth would be surgical by his words. Anyway no matter where the womb is located it is "bottle-neck" of the problem. About hormone therapy well I saw an old chemist that worked where I'm now that was involved in steroid synthesis...well he did aquire gynecomastia (when the guy gets female breasts), but today number of transvestites gladly takes high doses of this with medical aid so I guess it's not fatal (only incredibly anoying).

Skean Dhu, can you post a link or attach a file? I'm all ears now!:) And I just had an idea that some of you might get to idea to use the bodies of those "sub-humans" in a way that would give it some value;) when I post that info before.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I agree, but I didn't proposed anything. I just paraphrased the read article few years old. Doctor in the article proposed that and I believe the birth would be surgical by his words. Anyway no matter where the womb is located it is "bottle-neck" of the problem. About hormone therapy well I saw an old chemist that worked where I'm now that was involved in steroid synthesis...well he did aquire gynecomastia (when the guy gets female breasts), but today number of transvestites gladly takes high doses of this with medical aid so I guess it's not fatal (only incredibly anoying).

Skean Dhu, can you post a link or attach a file? I'm all ears now!:) And I just had an idea that some of you might get to idea to use the bodies of those "sub-humans" in a way that would give it some value;) when I post that info before.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I agree, but I didn't proposed anything. I just paraphrased the read article few years old. Doctor in the article proposed that and I believe the birth would be surgical by his words. Anyway no matter where the womb is located it is "bottle-neck" of the problem. About hormone therapy well I saw an old chemist that worked where I'm now that was involved in steroid synthesis...well he did aquire gynecomastia (when the guy gets female breasts), but today number of transvestites gladly takes high doses of this with medical aid so I guess it's not fatal (only incredibly anoying).

Skean Dhu, can you post a link or attach a file? I'm all ears now!:) And I just had an idea that some of you might get to idea to use the bodies of those "sub-humans" in a way that would give it some value;) when I post that info before.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, you want to look up transgenic animals. There's plenty of info about the place.

By lobotomising and sterilising, then embryo implantation, you could ensure a smooth process. No danger of gene transfer (even if a guard gets frisky), plus the host doesn't have to be concious - babies have been born to women in comas before now.

If the whole thing gets sunk, the "rescuers" have to support a load of kids for years, plus the "hosts" who are completely unable to cope with anything. It would cost them a fortune, while still furthering your aims...

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, you want to look up transgenic animals. There's plenty of info about the place.

By lobotomising and sterilising, then embryo implantation, you could ensure a smooth process. No danger of gene transfer (even if a guard gets frisky), plus the host doesn't have to be concious - babies have been born to women in comas before now.

If the whole thing gets sunk, the "rescuers" have to support a load of kids for years, plus the "hosts" who are completely unable to cope with anything. It would cost them a fortune, while still furthering your aims...

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, you want to look up transgenic animals. There's plenty of info about the place.

By lobotomising and sterilising, then embryo implantation, you could ensure a smooth process. No danger of gene transfer (even if a guard gets frisky), plus the host doesn't have to be concious - babies have been born to women in comas before now.

If the whole thing gets sunk, the "rescuers" have to support a load of kids for years, plus the "hosts" who are completely unable to cope with anything. It would cost them a fortune, while still furthering your aims...

[nbk2000]

During an active war, all the existing 'useless mouths' of your own race would eventually get expended. So were are your reserve forces?

Battles (and wars) are usually won by whoever has the deepest reserves of manpower, to bring fresh forces to bear against an exhausted enemy.

If you can breed replacements faster than your enemy, than you'll eventually win, everything else being equal.

Remember, the goal isn't to raise a hundred million geniuses, but expendable soldiers of great strength and endurance who'll obey orders unto death.

Once the war is won, and every other race is extinct, then you can work on the breeding of the geniuses.

You obviously can't use muds from your own national population, as that defeats the purpose. They'd be the first thing you'd have to get rid of before you could expand the war to the rest of the world.

And using human breeders, while simple, still has the 'One every 9 months' limitation.

I suppose you could induce twins in every one, but that doesn't help much when you're already outnumbered and need to gain numerical supremacy.

Removing the human mother limitation gives you the needed superiority.

Ever read 'The Diamond Age' by Neal Stephenson?

Quarter million orphaned chinese girls are raised on cargo ships, supported by nano-technology for food and such, while being educated by interactive AI 'books' that teach them to regard one white girl as their queen. :)

Replace orphan chinks with cow-breed clones and you're on track. :D

If the warrior class were all clones of one person (or several) than it'd make recognition of who's friendly forces very easy. Infiltration by traitorous whites (there are traitors in every race) would be impossible.

[nbk2000]

During an active war, all the existing 'useless mouths' of your own race would eventually get expended. So were are your reserve forces?

Battles (and wars) are usually won by whoever has the deepest reserves of manpower, to bring fresh forces to bear against an exhausted enemy.

If you can breed replacements faster than your enemy, than you'll eventually win, everything else being equal.

Remember, the goal isn't to raise a hundred million geniuses, but expendable soldiers of great strength and endurance who'll obey orders unto death.

Once the war is won, and every other race is extinct, then you can work on the breeding of the geniuses.

You obviously can't use muds from your own national population, as that defeats the purpose. They'd be the first thing you'd have to get rid of before you could expand the war to the rest of the world.

And using human breeders, while simple, still has the 'One every 9 months' limitation.

I suppose you could induce twins in every one, but that doesn't help much when you're already outnumbered and need to gain numerical supremacy.

Removing the human mother limitation gives you the needed superiority.

Ever read 'The Diamond Age' by Neal Stephenson?

Quarter million orphaned chinese girls are raised on cargo ships, supported by nano-technology for food and such, while being educated by interactive AI 'books' that teach them to regard one white girl as their queen. :)

Replace orphan chinks with cow-breed clones and you're on track. :D

If the warrior class were all clones of one person (or several) than it'd make recognition of who's friendly forces very easy. Infiltration by traitorous whites (there are traitors in every race) would be impossible.

[nbk2000]

During an active war, all the existing 'useless mouths' of your own race would eventually get expended. So were are your reserve forces?

Battles (and wars) are usually won by whoever has the deepest reserves of manpower, to bring fresh forces to bear against an exhausted enemy.

If you can breed replacements faster than your enemy, than you'll eventually win, everything else being equal.

Remember, the goal isn't to raise a hundred million geniuses, but expendable soldiers of great strength and endurance who'll obey orders unto death.

Once the war is won, and every other race is extinct, then you can work on the breeding of the geniuses.

You obviously can't use muds from your own national population, as that defeats the purpose. They'd be the first thing you'd have to get rid of before you could expand the war to the rest of the world.

And using human breeders, while simple, still has the 'One every 9 months' limitation.

I suppose you could induce twins in every one, but that doesn't help much when you're already outnumbered and need to gain numerical supremacy.

Removing the human mother limitation gives you the needed superiority.

Ever read 'The Diamond Age' by Neal Stephenson?

Quarter million orphaned chinese girls are raised on cargo ships, supported by nano-technology for food and such, while being educated by interactive AI 'books' that teach them to regard one white girl as their queen. :)

Replace orphan chinks with cow-breed clones and you're on track. :D

If the warrior class were all clones of one person (or several) than it'd make recognition of who's friendly forces very easy. Infiltration by traitorous whites (there are traitors in every race) would be impossible.

[The_Duke]

If you believe that humans evolved from apes, monkeys or what ever, you have to wonder why humans have stopped evolving over the last thousand years, or at least evolution has slowed to a crawl. It is because of the medicine that weak are able to live longer; it is because manual labor is nothing like it used to be. It is because we protect the weak and carry them along with us and they do nothing but slow us down and hold us back.

If it were possible to breed the numbers needed for world domination and total racial purity it would be wise for one to identify the weak and sick amongst the strong and healthy in order to weed them out so they can not transfer they’re “weak” genes to another generation. They could be made sterile and put to work until they cannot work any more and then shot. One could program the weak to know they’re place as the workers and the strong would be taught to know they’re place, to breed and fight for they’re master. All would be trained to accept death willingly to further the master’s cause.

The results of “weeding” out the weak would be stronger healthier soldiers which will give them an advantage over the enemy.

We would not have to kill all the mud’s of either, they have they’re uses. ;)

[The_Duke]

If you believe that humans evolved from apes, monkeys or what ever, you have to wonder why humans have stopped evolving over the last thousand years, or at least evolution has slowed to a crawl. It is because of the medicine that weak are able to live longer; it is because manual labor is nothing like it used to be. It is because we protect the weak and carry them along with us and they do nothing but slow us down and hold us back.

If it were possible to breed the numbers needed for world domination and total racial purity it would be wise for one to identify the weak and sick amongst the strong and healthy in order to weed them out so they can not transfer they’re “weak” genes to another generation. They could be made sterile and put to work until they cannot work any more and then shot. One could program the weak to know they’re place as the workers and the strong would be taught to know they’re place, to breed and fight for they’re master. All would be trained to accept death willingly to further the master’s cause.

The results of “weeding” out the weak would be stronger healthier soldiers which will give them an advantage over the enemy.

We would not have to kill all the mud’s of either, they have they’re uses. ;)

[The_Duke]

If you believe that humans evolved from apes, monkeys or what ever, you have to wonder why humans have stopped evolving over the last thousand years, or at least evolution has slowed to a crawl. It is because of the medicine that weak are able to live longer; it is because manual labor is nothing like it used to be. It is because we protect the weak and carry them along with us and they do nothing but slow us down and hold us back.

If it were possible to breed the numbers needed for world domination and total racial purity it would be wise for one to identify the weak and sick amongst the strong and healthy in order to weed them out so they can not transfer they’re “weak” genes to another generation. They could be made sterile and put to work until they cannot work any more and then shot. One could program the weak to know they’re place as the workers and the strong would be taught to know they’re place, to breed and fight for they’re master. All would be trained to accept death willingly to further the master’s cause.

The results of “weeding” out the weak would be stronger healthier soldiers which will give them an advantage over the enemy.

We would not have to kill all the mud’s of either, they have they’re uses. ;)

[Flake2m]

If you go onto deciding whether someone is pure and someone that is mud the ultimate question comes down to where you draw the line. It isn't a question of science but of ethics and thats where you get huge amounts of conflict.

Though NBK is right with regards to birthrate. The more modern wars were won on birthrate and population, with technology still being that important secondary role.

Dealing with Xeno - human births etc starts making science very frankenstein. While we are still able to genetically alter plants and can do cloning on a small scale, technology such as cow breeders and mass-scale cloning is anything from 5 to 20 years away.
It took IIRC over 200 attempts to make dolly the sheep.

There are also hundreds of implications, not just ethical but various genetic diseases that the offspring could suffer from.

[Flake2m]

If you go onto deciding whether someone is pure and someone that is mud the ultimate question comes down to where you draw the line. It isn't a question of science but of ethics and thats where you get huge amounts of conflict.

Though NBK is right with regards to birthrate. The more modern wars were won on birthrate and population, with technology still being that important secondary role.

Dealing with Xeno - human births etc starts making science very frankenstein. While we are still able to genetically alter plants and can do cloning on a small scale, technology such as cow breeders and mass-scale cloning is anything from 5 to 20 years away.
It took IIRC over 200 attempts to make dolly the sheep.

There are also hundreds of implications, not just ethical but various genetic diseases that the offspring could suffer from.

[Flake2m]

If you go onto deciding whether someone is pure and someone that is mud the ultimate question comes down to where you draw the line. It isn't a question of science but of ethics and thats where you get huge amounts of conflict.

Though NBK is right with regards to birthrate. The more modern wars were won on birthrate and population, with technology still being that important secondary role.

Dealing with Xeno - human births etc starts making science very frankenstein. While we are still able to genetically alter plants and can do cloning on a small scale, technology such as cow breeders and mass-scale cloning is anything from 5 to 20 years away.
It took IIRC over 200 attempts to make dolly the sheep.

There are also hundreds of implications, not just ethical but various genetic diseases that the offspring could suffer from.

[Jacks Complete]

NBK, yes, I've read the Diamond Age. As ever, Neil left a huge plot hole or three in there.

I doubt anyone could raise that many kids on boats, not without lots of robots and some kind of keen nano-tech that can produce power and food for free in large quantities. Just changing a day's worth of nappies would require about ten thousand staff!

Flake, I just don't see why you would want or need that many people. The Iraqi people are finding out that throwing large numbers of terrorists at small numbers of highly trained and well equipped troops doesn't really lead to a good victory. And against a smart swarm of nanobots tuned for the genotype of your clone army, 250,000 dead for you, vs. perhaps 25 for the swarm designers is pretty likely.

I also don't see any conflict at anything other than the lowest levels gaining an advantage from this. It is only ten years down the line that you will gain significantly, once you suddenly have a numbers advantage that you can use.

In the short term, it just means you have a lot of babies to feed and protect and train, rather than paying the existing lower (breeding) classes tu'pence to go out and die for you.

Lastly, which is better for actual use? A pure-breed or a mongrel? The pure is great for shows, but the mongrel wins for most other things.

[Jacks Complete]

NBK, yes, I've read the Diamond Age. As ever, Neil left a huge plot hole or three in there.

I doubt anyone could raise that many kids on boats, not without lots of robots and some kind of keen nano-tech that can produce power and food for free in large quantities. Just changing a day's worth of nappies would require about ten thousand staff!

Flake, I just don't see why you would want or need that many people. The Iraqi people are finding out that throwing large numbers of terrorists at small numbers of highly trained and well equipped troops doesn't really lead to a good victory. And against a smart swarm of nanobots tuned for the genotype of your clone army, 250,000 dead for you, vs. perhaps 25 for the swarm designers is pretty likely.

I also don't see any conflict at anything other than the lowest levels gaining an advantage from this. It is only ten years down the line that you will gain significantly, once you suddenly have a numbers advantage that you can use.

In the short term, it just means you have a lot of babies to feed and protect and train, rather than paying the existing lower (breeding) classes tu'pence to go out and die for you.

Lastly, which is better for actual use? A pure-breed or a mongrel? The pure is great for shows, but the mongrel wins for most other things.

[Jacks Complete]

NBK, yes, I've read the Diamond Age. As ever, Neil left a huge plot hole or three in there.

I doubt anyone could raise that many kids on boats, not without lots of robots and some kind of keen nano-tech that can produce power and food for free in large quantities. Just changing a day's worth of nappies would require about ten thousand staff!

Flake, I just don't see why you would want or need that many people. The Iraqi people are finding out that throwing large numbers of terrorists at small numbers of highly trained and well equipped troops doesn't really lead to a good victory. And against a smart swarm of nanobots tuned for the genotype of your clone army, 250,000 dead for you, vs. perhaps 25 for the swarm designers is pretty likely.

I also don't see any conflict at anything other than the lowest levels gaining an advantage from this. It is only ten years down the line that you will gain significantly, once you suddenly have a numbers advantage that you can use.

In the short term, it just means you have a lot of babies to feed and protect and train, rather than paying the existing lower (breeding) classes tu'pence to go out and die for you.

Lastly, which is better for actual use? A pure-breed or a mongrel? The pure is great for shows, but the mongrel wins for most other things.

[FUTI]

Making an army of clones isn't smart. Enemy can then make a biological agent that is far more effective on their genotype from the rest of population (and that is lo-tech compared to clone making mass production) and set you back to starting position if not defeat you completely. Variety is something that protect us all in some way. There is a theory that claims that from 10-30% of population is certain to survive large scale biological disasters/ diseases based only on their genetic difference which makes them/us more resistant. Who would say you will wish to become a statistical data?:D

[FUTI]

Making an army of clones isn't smart. Enemy can then make a biological agent that is far more effective on their genotype from the rest of population (and that is lo-tech compared to clone making mass production) and set you back to starting position if not defeat you completely. Variety is something that protect us all in some way. There is a theory that claims that from 10-30% of population is certain to survive large scale biological disasters/ diseases based only on their genetic difference which makes them/us more resistant. Who would say you will wish to become a statistical data?:D

[FUTI]

Making an army of clones isn't smart. Enemy can then make a biological agent that is far more effective on their genotype from the rest of population (and that is lo-tech compared to clone making mass production) and set you back to starting position if not defeat you completely. Variety is something that protect us all in some way. There is a theory that claims that from 10-30% of population is certain to survive large scale biological disasters/ diseases based only on their genetic difference which makes them/us more resistant. Who would say you will wish to become a statistical data?:D

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, not quite true. If the markers are there, you could use some form of nano-tech to work out which are what, but in the main, genetic variation accounts for little in the way of actual disease suceptibilty. Your recovery, etc. is determined by genetics, but antibodies for illnesses are created by exposure to the disease vector after birth.

The easy way to prevent it being an issue is to make half your army chinese and half WASP. They could kill half your army, but it would wipe out 90% of the western world, or 95+% of the chinese.

Anyway, if that were possible, people would be working on it now, and then pop, China would be empty real-estate one day! (Just like Diamond Age)

The other issue is that just a fractional change in the agent would kill averyone on earth. It's a doomsday weapon like a nuke or a cobalt bomb.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, not quite true. If the markers are there, you could use some form of nano-tech to work out which are what, but in the main, genetic variation accounts for little in the way of actual disease suceptibilty. Your recovery, etc. is determined by genetics, but antibodies for illnesses are created by exposure to the disease vector after birth.

The easy way to prevent it being an issue is to make half your army chinese and half WASP. They could kill half your army, but it would wipe out 90% of the western world, or 95+% of the chinese.

Anyway, if that were possible, people would be working on it now, and then pop, China would be empty real-estate one day! (Just like Diamond Age)

The other issue is that just a fractional change in the agent would kill averyone on earth. It's a doomsday weapon like a nuke or a cobalt bomb.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, not quite true. If the markers are there, you could use some form of nano-tech to work out which are what, but in the main, genetic variation accounts for little in the way of actual disease suceptibilty. Your recovery, etc. is determined by genetics, but antibodies for illnesses are created by exposure to the disease vector after birth.

The easy way to prevent it being an issue is to make half your army chinese and half WASP. They could kill half your army, but it would wipe out 90% of the western world, or 95+% of the chinese.

Anyway, if that were possible, people would be working on it now, and then pop, China would be empty real-estate one day! (Just like Diamond Age)

The other issue is that just a fractional change in the agent would kill averyone on earth. It's a doomsday weapon like a nuke or a cobalt bomb.

[nbk2000]

And who's the biggest funder of nano-tech research in the world?

The United States Department of Defense.

Hmmm....

Perhaps you should start looking for good beachfront properties in china? ;)

[nbk2000]

And who's the biggest funder of nano-tech research in the world?

The United States Department of Defense.

Hmmm....

Perhaps you should start looking for good beachfront properties in china? ;)

[nbk2000]

And who's the biggest funder of nano-tech research in the world?

The United States Department of Defense.

Hmmm....

Perhaps you should start looking for good beachfront properties in china? ;)

[Jacks Complete]

LOL!

I should think the biggest issue with that is the nukes that would be flying all over the place 30 seconds after the first wave of deaths. Unless you could get it to everyone in advance, then do a one time strike, of course.

But then, China is so big that they have several different basic types - Mongolian right through to Cantonese - so one test or type of nanite isn't going to do the trick. There is a lot of genetic variation in there, we just don't see it.

Unlike Africans, where they all look the same due to population crunches.

[Jacks Complete]

LOL!

I should think the biggest issue with that is the nukes that would be flying all over the place 30 seconds after the first wave of deaths. Unless you could get it to everyone in advance, then do a one time strike, of course.

But then, China is so big that they have several different basic types - Mongolian right through to Cantonese - so one test or type of nanite isn't going to do the trick. There is a lot of genetic variation in there, we just don't see it.

Unlike Africans, where they all look the same due to population crunches.

[Jacks Complete]

LOL!

I should think the biggest issue with that is the nukes that would be flying all over the place 30 seconds after the first wave of deaths. Unless you could get it to everyone in advance, then do a one time strike, of course.

But then, China is so big that they have several different basic types - Mongolian right through to Cantonese - so one test or type of nanite isn't going to do the trick. There is a lot of genetic variation in there, we just don't see it.

Unlike Africans, where they all look the same due to population crunches.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I agree with most of you wrote but... if that all is true then why American Indians were more susceptible to some kind of measles and die like flies from it in 19th century? If genetics isn't related to immune response then why so much hasle about histocompatibility? Unpredictability of biological weapons is the reason why they aren't used much in warefare. Large nations are safe as hell from that kind of attack as they already have nukes and number of people that makes certain it will remain someone to hit the damn button to launch them in case of attack - not to mention submarines with IBMS. Most of people think that there is only few races on this planet. Common mistake race = skin colour. Wrong. This is second hand info but...a women had to give birth in London since child was in a hurry;), in hospital nurse asked husband about race - suprised he answered white caucasian and she laughed a little and explain him that today we distinguish between 96 races (that was 10 years ago maybe number had grew since then) and give him questionaire to fill based on which she find race that needed to be filled in a woman hospital cart so the doctors know what to expect since responce to medication and illness occurance rate is different among different races.

About nanites mentioned:) I'm an SF fan but I doubt that there can be soon any major advance of that proportion as you speak of...but wouldn't that be nice as in Star Trek Borgs "resistance is FUTIle";)

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I agree with most of you wrote but... if that all is true then why American Indians were more susceptible to some kind of measles and die like flies from it in 19th century? If genetics isn't related to immune response then why so much hasle about histocompatibility? Unpredictability of biological weapons is the reason why they aren't used much in warefare. Large nations are safe as hell from that kind of attack as they already have nukes and number of people that makes certain it will remain someone to hit the damn button to launch them in case of attack - not to mention submarines with IBMS. Most of people think that there is only few races on this planet. Common mistake race = skin colour. Wrong. This is second hand info but...a women had to give birth in London since child was in a hurry;), in hospital nurse asked husband about race - suprised he answered white caucasian and she laughed a little and explain him that today we distinguish between 96 races (that was 10 years ago maybe number had grew since then) and give him questionaire to fill based on which she find race that needed to be filled in a woman hospital cart so the doctors know what to expect since responce to medication and illness occurance rate is different among different races.

About nanites mentioned:) I'm an SF fan but I doubt that there can be soon any major advance of that proportion as you speak of...but wouldn't that be nice as in Star Trek Borgs "resistance is FUTIle";)

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I agree with most of you wrote but... if that all is true then why American Indians were more susceptible to some kind of measles and die like flies from it in 19th century? If genetics isn't related to immune response then why so much hasle about histocompatibility? Unpredictability of biological weapons is the reason why they aren't used much in warefare. Large nations are safe as hell from that kind of attack as they already have nukes and number of people that makes certain it will remain someone to hit the damn button to launch them in case of attack - not to mention submarines with IBMS. Most of people think that there is only few races on this planet. Common mistake race = skin colour. Wrong. This is second hand info but...a women had to give birth in London since child was in a hurry;), in hospital nurse asked husband about race - suprised he answered white caucasian and she laughed a little and explain him that today we distinguish between 96 races (that was 10 years ago maybe number had grew since then) and give him questionaire to fill based on which she find race that needed to be filled in a woman hospital cart so the doctors know what to expect since responce to medication and illness occurance rate is different among different races.

About nanites mentioned:) I'm an SF fan but I doubt that there can be soon any major advance of that proportion as you speak of...but wouldn't that be nice as in Star Trek Borgs "resistance is FUTIle";)

[Silentnite]

I think FUTI has a point. I remember hearing about a flu that is merely a flu in Whites, while in black it can cause a horrible death.

The reason why the Indians died is the same reason that we all get sick. If our body has not been exposed to a certain infection then we are more susceptible to it. For instance: the indians had never had a strain of malaria or smallpox over here in america. English brought it over and it decimated them because the indians had not built up a resistance to it.

Common Flu or Colds, the mother of children does not usually get sick. Why? Because she has been exposed to the virus and has built up antibodies.

Thats the number one reason I am against anti-bacterial soap. If it kills all the germs you are more likely to get an infection if someone is sick around you. It takes away your chances to become immune and build up a defense.

Just like the kid that was sick the most in little school, was the one who didnt want to get dirty. The one who was out in the mud, cold, dirt and stuff is the one who didnt get sick.

[Silentnite]

I think FUTI has a point. I remember hearing about a flu that is merely a flu in Whites, while in black it can cause a horrible death.

The reason why the Indians died is the same reason that we all get sick. If our body has not been exposed to a certain infection then we are more susceptible to it. For instance: the indians had never had a strain of malaria or smallpox over here in america. English brought it over and it decimated them because the indians had not built up a resistance to it.

Common Flu or Colds, the mother of children does not usually get sick. Why? Because she has been exposed to the virus and has built up antibodies.

Thats the number one reason I am against anti-bacterial soap. If it kills all the germs you are more likely to get an infection if someone is sick around you. It takes away your chances to become immune and build up a defense.

Just like the kid that was sick the most in little school, was the one who didnt want to get dirty. The one who was out in the mud, cold, dirt and stuff is the one who didnt get sick.

[Silentnite]

I think FUTI has a point. I remember hearing about a flu that is merely a flu in Whites, while in black it can cause a horrible death.

The reason why the Indians died is the same reason that we all get sick. If our body has not been exposed to a certain infection then we are more susceptible to it. For instance: the indians had never had a strain of malaria or smallpox over here in america. English brought it over and it decimated them because the indians had not built up a resistance to it.

Common Flu or Colds, the mother of children does not usually get sick. Why? Because she has been exposed to the virus and has built up antibodies.

Thats the number one reason I am against anti-bacterial soap. If it kills all the germs you are more likely to get an infection if someone is sick around you. It takes away your chances to become immune and build up a defense.

Just like the kid that was sick the most in little school, was the one who didnt want to get dirty. The one who was out in the mud, cold, dirt and stuff is the one who didnt get sick.

[Jacks Complete]

I'm not saying that isn't true - there are genetic weaknesses that show up in one race over others.

What I am saying is that you couldn't develop and use one in time for it to save you from a giant clone army. After all, with modern NBC equipment, you can ensure that your guys don't contaminate each other too much, and this would slow the spread quite a lot. One tank would have it, whilst the others didn't, and you only lose one tank. Same with subs, or whatever.

Most minor infections like colds are very, very infectious, but we still manage not to get them all at the same time, just by simple things like washing hands and the fact we don't let people sneeze on us.

Finally, the reason the Amerindians or New worlders, or whatever, got measles and flu and died is because they had never been exposed to anything like those diseases before, so they had absolutely no immunity to them.

The army has everyone wash their own stuff in the mess with a warm shared bucket of soapy water, and then a simple rinse under cold water. This, plus the proximity of soldiers in the mess and the barracks, ensures that anything that makes anyone ill goes round everyone, and so keeps the immune system primed. (It also reduces cleaning costs!)

As long as the clones were "primed" with regular colds and the like, they would be as non-suceptible as anyone else, or even less so, as you could have tweaked the immune system to run hot (do you care if they get to 65 and are burned out? That used to be the point of life! Short retirements and long hard lives of work...)

Also, you would have every last one of them immunised with the different vaccines, like polio, GM, dengue & yellow fever, etc., as they would be more use as soldiers that way - which is exactly what most countries do before sending troops abroad.

Anyway, I still don't think the clone army is the way to go - though it might slow down prats who want to use ID cards with genetic sequences on them!

[Jacks Complete]

I'm not saying that isn't true - there are genetic weaknesses that show up in one race over others.

What I am saying is that you couldn't develop and use one in time for it to save you from a giant clone army. After all, with modern NBC equipment, you can ensure that your guys don't contaminate each other too much, and this would slow the spread quite a lot. One tank would have it, whilst the others didn't, and you only lose one tank. Same with subs, or whatever.

Most minor infections like colds are very, very infectious, but we still manage not to get them all at the same time, just by simple things like washing hands and the fact we don't let people sneeze on us.

Finally, the reason the Amerindians or New worlders, or whatever, got measles and flu and died is because they had never been exposed to anything like those diseases before, so they had absolutely no immunity to them.

The army has everyone wash their own stuff in the mess with a warm shared bucket of soapy water, and then a simple rinse under cold water. This, plus the proximity of soldiers in the mess and the barracks, ensures that anything that makes anyone ill goes round everyone, and so keeps the immune system primed. (It also reduces cleaning costs!)

As long as the clones were "primed" with regular colds and the like, they would be as non-suceptible as anyone else, or even less so, as you could have tweaked the immune system to run hot (do you care if they get to 65 and are burned out? That used to be the point of life! Short retirements and long hard lives of work...)

Also, you would have every last one of them immunised with the different vaccines, like polio, GM, dengue & yellow fever, etc., as they would be more use as soldiers that way - which is exactly what most countries do before sending troops abroad.

Anyway, I still don't think the clone army is the way to go - though it might slow down prats who want to use ID cards with genetic sequences on them!

[Jacks Complete]

I'm not saying that isn't true - there are genetic weaknesses that show up in one race over others.

What I am saying is that you couldn't develop and use one in time for it to save you from a giant clone army. After all, with modern NBC equipment, you can ensure that your guys don't contaminate each other too much, and this would slow the spread quite a lot. One tank would have it, whilst the others didn't, and you only lose one tank. Same with subs, or whatever.

Most minor infections like colds are very, very infectious, but we still manage not to get them all at the same time, just by simple things like washing hands and the fact we don't let people sneeze on us.

Finally, the reason the Amerindians or New worlders, or whatever, got measles and flu and died is because they had never been exposed to anything like those diseases before, so they had absolutely no immunity to them.

The army has everyone wash their own stuff in the mess with a warm shared bucket of soapy water, and then a simple rinse under cold water. This, plus the proximity of soldiers in the mess and the barracks, ensures that anything that makes anyone ill goes round everyone, and so keeps the immune system primed. (It also reduces cleaning costs!)

As long as the clones were "primed" with regular colds and the like, they would be as non-suceptible as anyone else, or even less so, as you could have tweaked the immune system to run hot (do you care if they get to 65 and are burned out? That used to be the point of life! Short retirements and long hard lives of work...)

Also, you would have every last one of them immunised with the different vaccines, like polio, GM, dengue & yellow fever, etc., as they would be more use as soldiers that way - which is exactly what most countries do before sending troops abroad.

Anyway, I still don't think the clone army is the way to go - though it might slow down prats who want to use ID cards with genetic sequences on them!

[Skean Dhu]

I agree 100% with Silentnite, The reason we have so many new impossible to cure germs viruii and diseases is because of over use of modern medicine and anti-bacterial cleaners. its like with any problem, be it math, chem, or sickenss, if you encounter it once and solve it you can then solve(cure) it every other time. The almost religeous washing of hands has escalated the natrual arms race faster than would normally have progressed, or atleast I think so.

Sure there are sometimes when its really neccesary to wash your hands, like after handeling raw meats, and other things that WILL make you sick but think its nto really neccesary to wash them after you touch a doorknob or handrail.

So I guess this would create some complications for these chimeric breeders, since the same pathogens don't affect the host that affect the human. While the baby might survive to be born it would probably perish shortly after birth, and encountering pathogens they have no anti-bodies for.

[Skean Dhu]

I agree 100% with Silentnite, The reason we have so many new impossible to cure germs viruii and diseases is because of over use of modern medicine and anti-bacterial cleaners. its like with any problem, be it math, chem, or sickenss, if you encounter it once and solve it you can then solve(cure) it every other time. The almost religeous washing of hands has escalated the natrual arms race faster than would normally have progressed, or atleast I think so.

Sure there are sometimes when its really neccesary to wash your hands, like after handeling raw meats, and other things that WILL make you sick but think its nto really neccesary to wash them after you touch a doorknob or handrail.

So I guess this would create some complications for these chimeric breeders, since the same pathogens don't affect the host that affect the human. While the baby might survive to be born it would probably perish shortly after birth, and encountering pathogens they have no anti-bodies for.

[Skean Dhu]

I agree 100% with Silentnite, The reason we have so many new impossible to cure germs viruii and diseases is because of over use of modern medicine and anti-bacterial cleaners. its like with any problem, be it math, chem, or sickenss, if you encounter it once and solve it you can then solve(cure) it every other time. The almost religeous washing of hands has escalated the natrual arms race faster than would normally have progressed, or atleast I think so.

Sure there are sometimes when its really neccesary to wash your hands, like after handeling raw meats, and other things that WILL make you sick but think its nto really neccesary to wash them after you touch a doorknob or handrail.

So I guess this would create some complications for these chimeric breeders, since the same pathogens don't affect the host that affect the human. While the baby might survive to be born it would probably perish shortly after birth, and encountering pathogens they have no anti-bodies for.

[Jacks Complete]

Now, I'm no expert, but I don't think babies have anything in the way of immunity at birth, as the mother and baby have completely independant blood systems. The antibodies are obtained in breast milk, and by vaccines and contact with pathogens.

There is a saying that "If he hasn't eaten his own weight in mud by the time he is two, he might not make it"! It is now believed that the immune system MUST be properly primed in early life, or else you get all sorts of issues as your body, which is set up to attack all the bad things that it should be seeing, starts to attack yourself instead, in lieu of the germs... which is bad.

[Jacks Complete]

Now, I'm no expert, but I don't think babies have anything in the way of immunity at birth, as the mother and baby have completely independant blood systems. The antibodies are obtained in breast milk, and by vaccines and contact with pathogens.

There is a saying that "If he hasn't eaten his own weight in mud by the time he is two, he might not make it"! It is now believed that the immune system MUST be properly primed in early life, or else you get all sorts of issues as your body, which is set up to attack all the bad things that it should be seeing, starts to attack yourself instead, in lieu of the germs... which is bad.

[Jacks Complete]

Now, I'm no expert, but I don't think babies have anything in the way of immunity at birth, as the mother and baby have completely independant blood systems. The antibodies are obtained in breast milk, and by vaccines and contact with pathogens.

There is a saying that "If he hasn't eaten his own weight in mud by the time he is two, he might not make it"! It is now believed that the immune system MUST be properly primed in early life, or else you get all sorts of issues as your body, which is set up to attack all the bad things that it should be seeing, starts to attack yourself instead, in lieu of the germs... which is bad.

[xyz]

There are many allergies that have been linked with undergoing early development (Up to age 5 or so) in an environment that is too clean.

[xyz]

There are many allergies that have been linked with undergoing early development (Up to age 5 or so) in an environment that is too clean.

[xyz]

There are many allergies that have been linked with undergoing early development (Up to age 5 or so) in an environment that is too clean.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I will be honest and say that I don't know how exactly newborn baby aquire antibodies, but I'm pretty much certain that untill it has reached age of 6 months it doesn't start production of its own antibodies&white blood cells and that most of immune respose it got is some kind of copy of mothers immunity data. It can get some of antibodies through milk (digestive system will reduce that number a lot) and since the age when the babies are started to feed with other food sources is exactly 6th month it can be the main immune protection mechanism. It is hard to discuss about mechanism of this since child is still developing organism and some of its cells didn't still pass the full transformation. But imagine this...if only source of antibodies is milk then with ever rising number of women who don't breast feed their children "because it will disfigure my breast and I want them to be like before pregnancy" (now this is for urban legend thread since they don't know that change of breast form has already occured in pregnancy at the 12th week and it is irreversible - and gravity rules anyway) those children would have less chances to survive, wouldn't they. Antibodies are just markers as in artilery, and lymphocytes should be the gunners. When I'm joking I tell that immune system reminds me on police - not very smart, with good intentions, mostly nail the guilty one but sometimes shoot their own and by-standers. I give you a credit about description of baby immune system as something very close to "tabula rasa". It is very good to be so since then we can give baby cow milk and it won't cause immune response exept in few cases. Half-life of lymphocites is three months IIRC, and I'm not sure about antibodies so baby must after some period start producing its own defence lymphocytes and other things.

You are right about NBC equipment and biological weapons is made for reducing civilian population, but I think that army at barracks is more vulnerable to that kind of attack then full spread units in wild as they are harder to innoculate then (how would anyone infect nuke submarine crew when they have 6 month underwater limit only because they start to crack down mentaly). Vaccine works against normal germs, engeneered ones are hell. 1993 I think Russians publish an article about experiment with anthrax bacterium crossing genes with some other soil bacteria under lab manipulation - obtained bacteria can cause some kind of blood poisoning antrax form and...ups I forgot Russian reported that vaccine against antrax they have doesn't work in that case. Reason for experiment..."we wanted to see what would happend if those bacterias cross spontaneously in wild since they live in soil";) - not only US has Ministry of Defence. I just pray that no-one start to genetically alter viruses since they are already nasty and that can really make planet-killer. Nice touch with immune system on afterburners idea...that can be done with some chemicals.

Silentnite I think that answer lie somewhere in the midle as far as the germs and immunity. Soap, detergent, antibacterials had made life span longer and rise quality of life. In the course that weaken the survival of the fittest strategy. Immunisation has good and bad sides and is still in dispute. Good are obvious, but since mechanism through which antibodies evolve is something like trial-and-error combined with hightroughput screening - actually it looks like combinatorial chemistry. This is prone to make error sometime and doubt as cause of autoimmune illness. Acctualy living in the mud and poor life condition will strenghten your immune system, but also can reduce life expectancy.Nastier strain of germs are made I think through abuse of antibiotic in cattle production for its anabolic properties but also induced spread and generate resistant strains of bacteria making them more dominant.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I will be honest and say that I don't know how exactly newborn baby aquire antibodies, but I'm pretty much certain that untill it has reached age of 6 months it doesn't start production of its own antibodies&white blood cells and that most of immune respose it got is some kind of copy of mothers immunity data. It can get some of antibodies through milk (digestive system will reduce that number a lot) and since the age when the babies are started to feed with other food sources is exactly 6th month it can be the main immune protection mechanism. It is hard to discuss about mechanism of this since child is still developing organism and some of its cells didn't still pass the full transformation. But imagine this...if only source of antibodies is milk then with ever rising number of women who don't breast feed their children "because it will disfigure my breast and I want them to be like before pregnancy" (now this is for urban legend thread since they don't know that change of breast form has already occured in pregnancy at the 12th week and it is irreversible - and gravity rules anyway) those children would have less chances to survive, wouldn't they. Antibodies are just markers as in artilery, and lymphocytes should be the gunners. When I'm joking I tell that immune system reminds me on police - not very smart, with good intentions, mostly nail the guilty one but sometimes shoot their own and by-standers. I give you a credit about description of baby immune system as something very close to "tabula rasa". It is very good to be so since then we can give baby cow milk and it won't cause immune response exept in few cases. Half-life of lymphocites is three months IIRC, and I'm not sure about antibodies so baby must after some period start producing its own defence lymphocytes and other things.

You are right about NBC equipment and biological weapons is made for reducing civilian population, but I think that army at barracks is more vulnerable to that kind of attack then full spread units in wild as they are harder to innoculate then (how would anyone infect nuke submarine crew when they have 6 month underwater limit only because they start to crack down mentaly). Vaccine works against normal germs, engeneered ones are hell. 1993 I think Russians publish an article about experiment with anthrax bacterium crossing genes with some other soil bacteria under lab manipulation - obtained bacteria can cause some kind of blood poisoning antrax form and...ups I forgot Russian reported that vaccine against antrax they have doesn't work in that case. Reason for experiment..."we wanted to see what would happend if those bacterias cross spontaneously in wild since they live in soil";) - not only US has Ministry of Defence. I just pray that no-one start to genetically alter viruses since they are already nasty and that can really make planet-killer. Nice touch with immune system on afterburners idea...that can be done with some chemicals.

Silentnite I think that answer lie somewhere in the midle as far as the germs and immunity. Soap, detergent, antibacterials had made life span longer and rise quality of life. In the course that weaken the survival of the fittest strategy. Immunisation has good and bad sides and is still in dispute. Good are obvious, but since mechanism through which antibodies evolve is something like trial-and-error combined with hightroughput screening - actually it looks like combinatorial chemistry. This is prone to make error sometime and doubt as cause of autoimmune illness. Acctualy living in the mud and poor life condition will strenghten your immune system, but also can reduce life expectancy.Nastier strain of germs are made I think through abuse of antibiotic in cattle production for its anabolic properties but also induced spread and generate resistant strains of bacteria making them more dominant.

[FUTI]

to Jacks Complete: I will be honest and say that I don't know how exactly newborn baby aquire antibodies, but I'm pretty much certain that untill it has reached age of 6 months it doesn't start production of its own antibodies&white blood cells and that most of immune respose it got is some kind of copy of mothers immunity data. It can get some of antibodies through milk (digestive system will reduce that number a lot) and since the age when the babies are started to feed with other food sources is exactly 6th month it can be the main immune protection mechanism. It is hard to discuss about mechanism of this since child is still developing organism and some of its cells didn't still pass the full transformation. But imagine this...if only source of antibodies is milk then with ever rising number of women who don't breast feed their children "because it will disfigure my breast and I want them to be like before pregnancy" (now this is for urban legend thread since they don't know that change of breast form has already occured in pregnancy at the 12th week and it is irreversible - and gravity rules anyway) those children would have less chances to survive, wouldn't they. Antibodies are just markers as in artilery, and lymphocytes should be the gunners. When I'm joking I tell that immune system reminds me on police - not very smart, with good intentions, mostly nail the guilty one but sometimes shoot their own and by-standers. I give you a credit about description of baby immune system as something very close to "tabula rasa". It is very good to be so since then we can give baby cow milk and it won't cause immune response exept in few cases. Half-life of lymphocites is three months IIRC, and I'm not sure about antibodies so baby must after some period start producing its own defence lymphocytes and other things.

You are right about NBC equipment and biological weapons is made for reducing civilian population, but I think that army at barracks is more vulnerable to that kind of attack then full spread units in wild as they are harder to innoculate then (how would anyone infect nuke submarine crew when they have 6 month underwater limit only because they start to crack down mentaly). Vaccine works against normal germs, engeneered ones are hell. 1993 I think Russians publish an article about experiment with anthrax bacterium crossing genes with some other soil bacteria under lab manipulation - obtained bacteria can cause some kind of blood poisoning antrax form and...ups I forgot Russian reported that vaccine against antrax they have doesn't work in that case. Reason for experiment..."we wanted to see what would happend if those bacterias cross spontaneously in wild since they live in soil";) - not only US has Ministry of Defence. I just pray that no-one start to genetically alter viruses since they are already nasty and that can really make planet-killer. Nice touch with immune system on afterburners idea...that can be done with some chemicals.

Silentnite I think that answer lie somewhere in the midle as far as the germs and immunity. Soap, detergent, antibacterials had made life span longer and rise quality of life. In the course that weaken the survival of the fittest strategy. Immunisation has good and bad sides and is still in dispute. Good are obvious, but since mechanism through which antibodies evolve is something like trial-and-error combined with hightroughput screening - actually it looks like combinatorial chemistry. This is prone to make error sometime and doubt as cause of autoimmune illness. Acctualy living in the mud and poor life condition will strenghten your immune system, but also can reduce life expectancy.Nastier strain of germs are made I think through abuse of antibiotic in cattle production for its anabolic properties but also induced spread and generate resistant strains of bacteria making them more dominant.

[Jacks Complete]

Anything that kills 90%+ of the target population will find itself extinct pretty fast. The target population simply evolves around the issue - c.f. sickle cell anemia - in a few generations.

Nature doesn't really want that, so most pathogens don't do it, or if they do, it is because they are supported by a population that is less damaged - Typhoid Mary for example, or birds with avian flu that kills people.

One of the most important things a mother gives her child before birth is passive immunity * a temporary immunity to diseases she has contracted or has been vaccinated against. Unfortunately, passive immunity also interferes with vaccines against measles and other diseases, leading doctors to put off vaccinating until the protection has faded out, usually by the child's first birthday.Stanford Online

Babies develop their own immunities fairly rapidly, though, as they should be exposed to the majority of pathogens before this passive immunity has run out, and so they will have developed thier own.

Anyway, targeting a tiny genetic marker is really hard, then one slight change and it kills everyone - I don't think it is a realistic threat to a clone army.

[Jacks Complete]

Anything that kills 90%+ of the target population will find itself extinct pretty fast. The target population simply evolves around the issue - c.f. sickle cell anemia - in a few generations.

Nature doesn't really want that, so most pathogens don't do it, or if they do, it is because they are supported by a population that is less damaged - Typhoid Mary for example, or birds with avian flu that kills people.

One of the most important things a mother gives her child before birth is passive immunity * a temporary immunity to diseases she has contracted or has been vaccinated against. Unfortunately, passive immunity also interferes with vaccines against measles and other diseases, leading doctors to put off vaccinating until the protection has faded out, usually by the child's first birthday.Stanford Online

Babies develop their own immunities fairly rapidly, though, as they should be exposed to the majority of pathogens before this passive immunity has run out, and so they will have developed thier own.

Anyway, targeting a tiny genetic marker is really hard, then one slight change and it kills everyone - I don't think it is a realistic threat to a clone army.

[Jacks Complete]

Anything that kills 90%+ of the target population will find itself extinct pretty fast. The target population simply evolves around the issue - c.f. sickle cell anemia - in a few generations.

Nature doesn't really want that, so most pathogens don't do it, or if they do, it is because they are supported by a population that is less damaged - Typhoid Mary for example, or birds with avian flu that kills people.

One of the most important things a mother gives her child before birth is passive immunity * a temporary immunity to diseases she has contracted or has been vaccinated against. Unfortunately, passive immunity also interferes with vaccines against measles and other diseases, leading doctors to put off vaccinating until the protection has faded out, usually by the child's first birthday.Stanford Online

Babies develop their own immunities fairly rapidly, though, as they should be exposed to the majority of pathogens before this passive immunity has run out, and so they will have developed thier own.

Anyway, targeting a tiny genetic marker is really hard, then one slight change and it kills everyone - I don't think it is a realistic threat to a clone army.

[FUTI]

I agree that targeting a specific gene set is hard and I compared it with a sniper with blindfold on. Problems envisioned in this subject has little distorted this thread but are related with immunity problems needed to be crossed to make chimeric breeder. Passive immunity can be aquired by other hosts (I think some snake venom antidot can be made that way from immunised horses blood). Biological warefare is tricky and also conected to this subject http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol8no8/01-0516.htm
Only thing I try to say is that based on current knowledge it is easier to by-pass defense (as in modified antrax) or look for a specific patogen for a race (not achieved yet but based on the current data imaginable) then to make a complete chimeric breeder.

[FUTI]

I agree that targeting a specific gene set is hard and I compared it with a sniper with blindfold on. Problems envisioned in this subject has little distorted this thread but are related with immunity problems needed to be crossed to make chimeric breeder. Passive immunity can be aquired by other hosts (I think some snake venom antidot can be made that way from immunised horses blood). Biological warefare is tricky and also conected to this subject http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol8no8/01-0516.htm
Only thing I try to say is that based on current knowledge it is easier to by-pass defense (as in modified antrax) or look for a specific patogen for a race (not achieved yet but based on the current data imaginable) then to make a complete chimeric breeder.

[FUTI]

I agree that targeting a specific gene set is hard and I compared it with a sniper with blindfold on. Problems envisioned in this subject has little distorted this thread but are related with immunity problems needed to be crossed to make chimeric breeder. Passive immunity can be aquired by other hosts (I think some snake venom antidot can be made that way from immunised horses blood). Biological warefare is tricky and also conected to this subject http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol8no8/01-0516.htm
Only thing I try to say is that based on current knowledge it is easier to by-pass defense (as in modified antrax) or look for a specific patogen for a race (not achieved yet but based on the current data imaginable) then to make a complete chimeric breeder.

[nbk2000]

You must take the context of the scenario into mind when discussing it.

It is the genetic engineering of animals to produce breeders for many millions of soldiers in a short period of time, knowing that the vast majority of them will die, all for the purpose of world conquest for a totalitarian Nazi regime bent on the genocidial extinction of every other race on the planet, meaning that nothing is forbidden.

Likely that hundreds of thousands of breeder animals, and potential humans, would be lost in the course of the experimentation needed to develop the technique, but so what? Is that too high a price for global domination? I think not.

Imagine what 'The Angel of Death' could have achieved with todays modern science!

The jews are always harping about how his experiments were "quack" science, but he was a respected scientist in his days, and his experiments (including the death camp work) set the ground work for the discovery of DNA. So :p jews!

Not only would the animals be GE'd, but the clones would be too. They could be altered to increase their aging so they'd reach physical maturity earlier, have increased muscle mass, quicker reflexes, higher metabolism, etc.

If they die before they are 30, so what? As long as they each killed at least two enemies before dying, you're winning. :)

The parallel I'm thinking of is Roy Baty from the movie Blade Runner.

A highly engineered clone (replicant), built for endurance and combat performance, with a limited lifespan to preclude independence.

All this seems very sci-fi, but at the time of BR, clones were sci-fi, and twenty later it's a fact, even if the implementation is somewhat flawed, but that's more a reflection on societies fears of developing the technology, not the limits of the capabilities of the science.

In 20 years time, what I speak of may come to be fact too, but for other reasons.

Literacy in the clones would be unneccesary, as you're not interested in their intellectual development past that needed to be good soldiers.

The idea of a built-in defect, such as an enzyme deficency that'll kill them without supplementation in their food (Thinking Star Trek DS9's main enemies, the Jem Hadar [SP?]), would be good as witholding the enzyme means any rebellious units die quickly, preventing any mutiny from getting out of hand.

Though this could be a double-edged sword if the enemy was ever to find out about it, as blocking resupply of the enzyme to your forces could result in a mass die-off of your troops, without corresponding enemy combat losses.

Some will no doubt whine about how all this is inhumane, and morally 'wrong', and against the will of (DOG spelt backwards)[Thinking mainly of 2,4,6,-TNP :D], and no country or race would be willing to accept such losses.

Well, my dear and deluded reader, look at the FTP and watch the video of the first chinese nuke test.

See all those chinks riding horses and trucks toward ground zero? Most of them died. By the many thousands. This is a known fact.

Now, if the chinks are willing to sends thousands to their deaths during a TEST, what do you think they'd be willing to do during a global WAR?

We must be capable of more! More cruelty, more sacrifice, more cunning, more of everything.

Anyways, once the war was won, you start with the purification of your gene pool to promote intelligence, as you need brains to get the race into space and start colonization, breeding for brains instead of brawn (though you can have both!).

The ultimate aim of all this is to get the Human race, which by this time would be ONLY the Aryan race, into space and out among the stars.

This way, no matter what happens later (war between various Aryan factions/planetary extinction by a huge comet impact/global pandemic/etc), the Race is scattered amoung too many planets for it to die out, assuring our survival and continued expansion. :)

This could be done in a single lifetime if all the resources of earth were united under the control of a Führer who commands it to be done.

This would be the greatest Human to ever live, remembered for as long as the Race exists, for he would be the man responsible for getting the Race to the stars, not just pissing about with little remote-control probes taking soil samples from nearby planets to no purpose. :mad:

The only way the Human Ascension will ever happen is if humanity is united for that one purpose, and that'll only happen when there is one Race and one Ruler. And the only way for this to happen is to eliminate every other race and every other form of government, and that means WAR!

If we have to gut the planet and leave it an uninhabitable wasteland of searing radiation and toxic waste, than so be it, for Man will have left the cradle of earth to conquer the stars as a mature race!

Until then, we'll have the 96 races and 200 hundred governments forever bickering and squabbling over PETTY bullshit until one day an asteriod sneaks out from behind the moon and obliterates us like the dinosaurs, and 160,000,000 years of mammilian dominance will all have been for naught.

If that happens, maybe the roaches who'll inherit the earth will get it right, 160,000,000 years hence. :p

As to the bio-war scenario, there's nothing to preclude the use of some mud DNA in the creation of clones for your armies. Thus, any geno-type bio-agent will have to kill the enemies forces at the same time as it kills yours. Your forces would still look white, and almost all identical (being clones), but be part-mud in their DNA, thus partially protected against ethnic bio-agents.

And, as long as they're sterile, it doesn't make any difference in the outcome, because they'll be unable to perpetrate their mud genes, and will all die eventually, thus Aryans win. :)

Pure Aryan genotypes are cryo-preserved in egg and sperm banks in deep shelters for later use in case a catastrophic biological pandemic kills off the existing Aryans, leaving only your sterile part-mud forces alive (because of their increased resistance).

Naturally, some small numbers of these resistant clones would have to be included in the clone creation process so they would have the needed technical skills to recreate the master race, in case of such a mass die-off (RTPB: Plan for failure), after your side is victorious and a cure for the disease is found.

Such a 'Doomsday' bio-weapon is possible, as the discovery of the gen-eng'd variant of mousepox has shown that a 100% fatal bio-agent is feasible to create, since it's not a naturally occuring disease that must leave alive a natural reservior organism to perpetuate itself in past the infective stage.

[nbk2000]

You must take the context of the scenario into mind when discussing it.

It is the genetic engineering of animals to produce breeders for many millions of soldiers in a short period of time, knowing that the vast majority of them will die, all for the purpose of world conquest for a totalitarian Nazi regime bent on the genocidial extinction of every other race on the planet, meaning that nothing is forbidden.

Likely that hundreds of thousands of breeder animals, and potential humans, would be lost in the course of the experimentation needed to develop the technique, but so what? Is that too high a price for global domination? I think not.

Imagine what 'The Angel of Death' could have achieved with todays modern science!

The jews are always harping about how his experiments were "quack" science, but he was a respected scientist in his days, and his experiments (including the death camp work) set the ground work for the discovery of DNA. So :p jews!

Not only would the animals be GE'd, but the clones would be too. They could be altered to increase their aging so they'd reach physical maturity earlier, have increased muscle mass, quicker reflexes, higher metabolism, etc.

If they die before they are 30, so what? As long as they each killed at least two enemies before dying, you're winning. :)

The parallel I'm thinking of is Roy Baty from the movie Blade Runner.

A highly engineered clone (replicant), built for endurance and combat performance, with a limited lifespan to preclude independence.

All this seems very sci-fi, but at the time of BR, clones were sci-fi, and twenty later it's a fact, even if the implementation is somewhat flawed, but that's more a reflection on societies fears of developing the technology, not the limits of the capabilities of the science.

In 20 years time, what I speak of may come to be fact too, but for other reasons.

Literacy in the clones would be unneccesary, as you're not interested in their intellectual development past that needed to be good soldiers.

The idea of a built-in defect, such as an enzyme deficency that'll kill them without supplementation in their food (Thinking Star Trek DS9's main enemies, the Jem Hadar [SP?]), would be good as witholding the enzyme means any rebellious units die quickly, preventing any mutiny from getting out of hand.

Though this could be a double-edged sword if the enemy was ever to find out about it, as blocking resupply of the enzyme to your forces could result in a mass die-off of your troops, without corresponding enemy combat losses.

Some will no doubt whine about how all this is inhumane, and morally 'wrong', and against the will of (DOG spelt backwards)[Thinking mainly of 2,4,6,-TNP :D], and no country or race would be willing to accept such losses.

Well, my dear and deluded reader, look at the FTP and watch the video of the first chinese nuke test.

See all those chinks riding horses and trucks toward ground zero? Most of them died. By the many thousands. This is a known fact.

Now, if the chinks are willing to sends thousands to their deaths during a TEST, what do you think they'd be willing to do during a global WAR?

We must be capable of more! More cruelty, more sacrifice, more cunning, more of everything.

Anyways, once the war was won, you start with the purification of your gene pool to promote intelligence, as you need brains to get the race into space and start colonization, breeding for brains instead of brawn (though you can have both!).

The ultimate aim of all this is to get the Human race, which by this time would be ONLY the Aryan race, into space and out among the stars.

This way, no matter what happens later (war between various Aryan factions/planetary extinction by a huge comet impact/global pandemic/etc), the Race is scattered amoung too many planets for it to die out, assuring our survival and continued expansion. :)

This could be done in a single lifetime if all the resources of earth were united under the control of a Führer who commands it to be done.

This would be the greatest Human to ever live, remembered for as long as the Race exists, for he would be the man responsible for getting the Race to the stars, not just pissing about with little remote-control probes taking soil samples from nearby planets to no purpose. :mad:

The only way the Human Ascension will ever happen is if humanity is united for that one purpose, and that'll only happen when there is one Race and one Ruler. And the only way for this to happen is to eliminate every other race and every other form of government, and that means WAR!

If we have to gut the planet and leave it an uninhabitable wasteland of searing radiation and toxic waste, than so be it, for Man will have left the cradle of earth to conquer the stars as a mature race!

Until then, we'll have the 96 races and 200 hundred governments forever bickering and squabbling over PETTY bullshit until one day an asteriod sneaks out from behind the moon and obliterates us like the dinosaurs, and 160,000,000 years of mammilian dominance will all have been for naught.

If that happens, maybe the roaches who'll inherit the earth will get it right, 160,000,000 years hence. :p

As to the bio-war scenario, there's nothing to preclude the use of some mud DNA in the creation of clones for your armies. Thus, any geno-type bio-agent will have to kill the enemies forces at the same time as it kills yours. Your forces would still look white, and almost all identical (being clones), but be part-mud in their DNA, thus partially protected against ethnic bio-agents.

And, as long as they're sterile, it doesn't make any difference in the outcome, because they'll be unable to perpetrate their mud genes, and will all die eventually, thus Aryans win. :)

Pure Aryan genotypes are cryo-preserved in egg and sperm banks in deep shelters for later use in case a catastrophic biological pandemic kills off the existing Aryans, leaving only your sterile part-mud forces alive (because of their increased resistance).

Naturally, some small numbers of these resistant clones would have to be included in the clone creation process so they would have the needed technical skills to recreate the master race, in case of such a mass die-off (RTPB: Plan for failure), after your side is victorious and a cure for the disease is found.

Such a 'Doomsday' bio-weapon is possible, as the discovery of the gen-eng'd variant of mousepox has shown that a 100% fatal bio-agent is feasible to create, since it's not a naturally occuring disease that must leave alive a natural reservior organism to perpetuate itself in past the infective stage.

[nbk2000]

You must take the context of the scenario into mind when discussing it.

It is the genetic engineering of animals to produce breeders for many millions of soldiers in a short period of time, knowing that the vast majority of them will die, all for the purpose of world conquest for a totalitarian Nazi regime bent on the genocidial extinction of every other race on the planet, meaning that nothing is forbidden.

Likely that hundreds of thousands of breeder animals, and potential humans, would be lost in the course of the experimentation needed to develop the technique, but so what? Is that too high a price for global domination? I think not.

Imagine what 'The Angel of Death' could have achieved with todays modern science!

The jews are always harping about how his experiments were "quack" science, but he was a respected scientist in his days, and his experiments (including the death camp work) set the ground work for the discovery of DNA. So :p jews!

Not only would the animals be GE'd, but the clones would be too. They could be altered to increase their aging so they'd reach physical maturity earlier, have increased muscle mass, quicker reflexes, higher metabolism, etc.

If they die before they are 30, so what? As long as they each killed at least two enemies before dying, you're winning. :)

The parallel I'm thinking of is Roy Baty from the movie Blade Runner.

A highly engineered clone (replicant), built for endurance and combat performance, with a limited lifespan to preclude independence.

All this seems very sci-fi, but at the time of BR, clones were sci-fi, and twenty later it's a fact, even if the implementation is somewhat flawed, but that's more a reflection on societies fears of developing the technology, not the limits of the capabilities of the science.

In 20 years time, what I speak of may come to be fact too, but for other reasons.

Literacy in the clones would be unneccesary, as you're not interested in their intellectual development past that needed to be good soldiers.

The idea of a built-in defect, such as an enzyme deficency that'll kill them without supplementation in their food (Thinking Star Trek DS9's main enemies, the Jem Hadar [SP?]), would be good as witholding the enzyme means any rebellious units die quickly, preventing any mutiny from getting out of hand.

Though this could be a double-edged sword if the enemy was ever to find out about it, as blocking resupply of the enzyme to your forces could result in a mass die-off of your troops, without corresponding enemy combat losses.

Some will no doubt whine about how all this is inhumane, and morally 'wrong', and against the will of (DOG spelt backwards)[Thinking mainly of 2,4,6,-TNP :D], and no country or race would be willing to accept such losses.

Well, my dear and deluded reader, look at the FTP and watch the video of the first chinese nuke test.

See all those chinks riding horses and trucks toward ground zero? Most of them died. By the many thousands. This is a known fact.

Now, if the chinks are willing to sends thousands to their deaths during a TEST, what do you think they'd be willing to do during a global WAR?

We must be capable of more! More cruelty, more sacrifice, more cunning, more of everything.

Anyways, once the war was won, you start with the purification of your gene pool to promote intelligence, as you need brains to get the race into space and start colonization, breeding for brains instead of brawn (though you can have both!).

The ultimate aim of all this is to get the Human race, which by this time would be ONLY the Aryan race, into space and out among the stars.

This way, no matter what happens later (war between various Aryan factions/planetary extinction by a huge comet impact/global pandemic/etc), the Race is scattered amoung too many planets for it to die out, assuring our survival and continued expansion. :)

This could be done in a single lifetime if all the resources of earth were united under the control of a Führer who commands it to be done.

This would be the greatest Human to ever live, remembered for as long as the Race exists, for he would be the man responsible for getting the Race to the stars, not just pissing about with little remote-control probes taking soil samples from nearby planets to no purpose. :mad:

The only way the Human Ascension will ever happen is if humanity is united for that one purpose, and that'll only happen when there is one Race and one Ruler. And the only way for this to happen is to eliminate every other race and every other form of government, and that means WAR!

If we have to gut the planet and leave it an uninhabitable wasteland of searing radiation and toxic waste, than so be it, for Man will have left the cradle of earth to conquer the stars as a mature race!

Until then, we'll have the 96 races and 200 hundred governments forever bickering and squabbling over PETTY bullshit until one day an asteriod sneaks out from behind the moon and obliterates us like the dinosaurs, and 160,000,000 years of mammilian dominance will all have been for naught.

If that happens, maybe the roaches who'll inherit the earth will get it right, 160,000,000 years hence. :p

As to the bio-war scenario, there's nothing to preclude the use of some mud DNA in the creation of clones for your armies. Thus, any geno-type bio-agent will have to kill the enemies forces at the same time as it kills yours. Your forces would still look white, and almost all identical (being clones), but be part-mud in their DNA, thus partially protected against ethnic bio-agents.

And, as long as they're sterile, it doesn't make any difference in the outcome, because they'll be unable to perpetrate their mud genes, and will all die eventually, thus Aryans win. :)

Pure Aryan genotypes are cryo-preserved in egg and sperm banks in deep shelters for later use in case a catastrophic biological pandemic kills off the existing Aryans, leaving only your sterile part-mud forces alive (because of their increased resistance).

Naturally, some small numbers of these resistant clones would have to be included in the clone creation process so they would have the needed technical skills to recreate the master race, in case of such a mass die-off (RTPB: Plan for failure), after your side is victorious and a cure for the disease is found.

Such a 'Doomsday' bio-weapon is possible, as the discovery of the gen-eng'd variant of mousepox has shown that a 100% fatal bio-agent is feasible to create, since it's not a naturally occuring disease that must leave alive a natural reservior organism to perpetuate itself in past the infective stage.

[Marvin]

This thread is a little odd given how its trying to probe the depths of biotechnology/evolution and at the same time ignoring some of its most relavent points.

As a race, strength comes from diversity. 'Purity' is a nonsense.

Taking DNA from the 'muds' to make a race of killers stronger, in order to wipe them both out to make way for a 'superior' race is a contradiction. If they have useful genes you want them in the final product. The problem with prejudice is that its giving genetic cleansing a bad name.

If you want to improve the human race it needs to be on results, if that means regular testing in major physical, mental and medical catagories, sterilising the lowest x percent of people, then thats what needs to be done. But it needs to be done on results that accuratly reflect survival ability and only on results, not skin colour, not race, not religion (though with increasing IQ many of these will be weeded out quickly).

The idea you wipe out a race because the avarage score is lower than the avarage of another race is a statistical blindfold. Whats an average? Its the strong covering the weak. Its a mathematical treatment that says its ok to balence a certain number of defectives against a minimum number of nobel prize winners simply because they are in the same arbitrarily defined subgroup. Heres an idea, should those prizewinners be allowed to choose who they balence?

"Congratulations professor, you have won the the respect, money, fame, the right to reproduce and to nominate from the very bottom of the barrel, who will it be?"
"I choose Timmy from southpark and the fat girl from the osbournes to enter the gene pool because the next generation will need more people to laugh at".

Would Steven Hawking be forced to nominate himself in both catagories?

An idea that an avarage allows you to include uncle 'toofless' and cousin 'slackjaw' and any other inbred hick that claims to be kin isn't about improving the human race, its about being popular among a social group and exploiting prejudice towards those outside it. In the same way should we throw away the genes that made Einstein a genius just because he was a jew? Would they somehow fail to work in a caucasian, or an african, or an indian, or vice versa?

If the Nazi's had deveoped genetic engineering, they'd have spent more time flushing the answers they didn't like down the toilet than invading anywhere. Take the whole 'Aryan master race' idea. Where does it come from? Linguistics. Studying ancient europian languages showed up a large percentage with strikingly related features. They founded a hypothesis. These languages are related because they are all derived from a single language, and a single language implies a single race speaking it. The first people I'm aware of to use this idea for political purposes were the british. When the british empire invaded india they needed a moral basis for keeping power. The ruling caste in india happened to be one of the 'aryan descendents' and though the caste system was not based on race the british argued that the high caste ruled because they were descended from the aryan master race. Since they also were aryan they had the right to rule.

These ideas gathered steam in germany following the end of the first world war. Its not hard to see why, they were stamped on and its the moral equivalant of a 'you may already have won' envelope coming through the door of the bored and desperate. The future of the world is here and coincidentally its almost the whole of you, the voting public in this country, but virtually noone else and none of those unpopular minorities.

The punchline took somewhat longer than the war. With the development of genetic sequencing they could finally put the aryan hypothesis to the test. Was there really a single race at the root? The results were not as clear as was hoped and could neither confirm or deny the myth. It did however show that the british and german people, who had both claimed superiority based on this 'Master race' were not descended from the aryans after all. An unsurprising result that confirmed what the linguists (who originated the idea anyway) and archiologists had been saying all along. It wont stop people wanting a blond blue eyed future inventing a new reason but then it was never about improving the race or fufilling any real destiny, just a popular excuse for obeying the primitive desire to murder anyone that doesn't share the same genes, however inferior or badly suited to the area they want them to populate.

I look around, I see my corner of civilisation buying lottery cards and dreaming of a future they dont have to work for. I see people blindly trusting in politicians and then acting so suprised and angry when they turn out to be stealing from the public purse to pay for deviant acts and in spite of seeing it happen on a regular basis their entire lives. I dont see anyone worthy of starting the master race without massive changes, and I dont see any natural or simple way of getting there. Most of all I dont see the future master race falling for the same lies our grandfathers told in order to make their flawed ideas popular.

[Marvin]

This thread is a little odd given how its trying to probe the depths of biotechnology/evolution and at the same time ignoring some of its most relavent points.

As a race, strength comes from diversity. 'Purity' is a nonsense.

Taking DNA from the 'muds' to make a race of killers stronger, in order to wipe them both out to make way for a 'superior' race is a contradiction. If they have useful genes you want them in the final product. The problem with prejudice is that its giving genetic cleansing a bad name.

If you want to improve the human race it needs to be on results, if that means regular testing in major physical, mental and medical catagories, sterilising the lowest x percent of people, then thats what needs to be done. But it needs to be done on results that accuratly reflect survival ability and only on results, not skin colour, not race, not religion (though with increasing IQ many of these will be weeded out quickly).

The idea you wipe out a race because the avarage score is lower than the avarage of another race is a statistical blindfold. Whats an average? Its the strong covering the weak. Its a mathematical treatment that says its ok to balence a certain number of defectives against a minimum number of nobel prize winners simply because they are in the same arbitrarily defined subgroup. Heres an idea, should those prizewinners be allowed to choose who they balence?

"Congratulations professor, you have won the the respect, money, fame, the right to reproduce and to nominate from the very bottom of the barrel, who will it be?"
"I choose Timmy from southpark and the fat girl from the osbournes to enter the gene pool because the next generation will need more people to laugh at".

Would Steven Hawking be forced to nominate himself in both catagories?

An idea that an avarage allows you to include uncle 'toofless' and cousin 'slackjaw' and any other inbred hick that claims to be kin isn't about improving the human race, its about being popular among a social group and exploiting prejudice towards those outside it. In the same way should we throw away the genes that made Einstein a genius just because he was a jew? Would they somehow fail to work in a caucasian, or an african, or an indian, or vice versa?

If the Nazi's had deveoped genetic engineering, they'd have spent more time flushing the answers they didn't like down the toilet than invading anywhere. Take the whole 'Aryan master race' idea. Where does it come from? Linguistics. Studying ancient europian languages showed up a large percentage with strikingly related features. They founded a hypothesis. These languages are related because they are all derived from a single language, and a single language implies a single race speaking it. The first people I'm aware of to use this idea for political purposes were the british. When the british empire invaded india they needed a moral basis for keeping power. The ruling caste in india happened to be one of the 'aryan descendents' and though the caste system was not based on race the british argued that the high caste ruled because they were descended from the aryan master race. Since they also were aryan they had the right to rule.

These ideas gathered steam in germany following the end of the first world war. Its not hard to see why, they were stamped on and its the moral equivalant of a 'you may already have won' envelope coming through the door of the bored and desperate. The future of the world is here and coincidentally its almost the whole of you, the voting public in this country, but virtually noone else and none of those unpopular minorities.

The punchline took somewhat longer than the war. With the development of genetic sequencing they could finally put the aryan hypothesis to the test. Was there really a single race at the root? The results were not as clear as was hoped and could neither confirm or deny the myth. It did however show that the british and german people, who had both claimed superiority based on this 'Master race' were not descended from the aryans after all. An unsurprising result that confirmed what the linguists (who originated the idea anyway) and archiologists had been saying all along. It wont stop people wanting a blond blue eyed future inventing a new reason but then it was never about improving the race or fufilling any real destiny, just a popular excuse for obeying the primitive desire to murder anyone that doesn't share the same genes, however inferior or badly suited to the area they want them to populate.

I look around, I see my corner of civilisation buying lottery cards and dreaming of a future they dont have to work for. I see people blindly trusting in politicians and then acting so suprised and angry when they turn out to be stealing from the public purse to pay for deviant acts and in spite of seeing it happen on a regular basis their entire lives. I dont see anyone worthy of starting the master race without massive changes, and I dont see any natural or simple way of getting there. Most of all I dont see the future master race falling for the same lies our grandfathers told in order to make their flawed ideas popular.

[Marvin]

This thread is a little odd given how its trying to probe the depths of biotechnology/evolution and at the same time ignoring some of its most relavent points.

As a race, strength comes from diversity. 'Purity' is a nonsense.

Taking DNA from the 'muds' to make a race of killers stronger, in order to wipe them both out to make way for a 'superior' race is a contradiction. If they have useful genes you want them in the final product. The problem with prejudice is that its giving genetic cleansing a bad name.

If you want to improve the human race it needs to be on results, if that means regular testing in major physical, mental and medical catagories, sterilising the lowest x percent of people, then thats what needs to be done. But it needs to be done on results that accuratly reflect survival ability and only on results, not skin colour, not race, not religion (though with increasing IQ many of these will be weeded out quickly).

The idea you wipe out a race because the avarage score is lower than the avarage of another race is a statistical blindfold. Whats an average? Its the strong covering the weak. Its a mathematical treatment that says its ok to balence a certain number of defectives against a minimum number of nobel prize winners simply because they are in the same arbitrarily defined subgroup. Heres an idea, should those prizewinners be allowed to choose who they balence?

"Congratulations professor, you have won the the respect, money, fame, the right to reproduce and to nominate from the very bottom of the barrel, who will it be?"
"I choose Timmy from southpark and the fat girl from the osbournes to enter the gene pool because the next generation will need more people to laugh at".

Would Steven Hawking be forced to nominate himself in both catagories?

An idea that an avarage allows you to include uncle 'toofless' and cousin 'slackjaw' and any other inbred hick that claims to be kin isn't about improving the human race, its about being popular among a social group and exploiting prejudice towards those outside it. In the same way should we throw away the genes that made Einstein a genius just because he was a jew? Would they somehow fail to work in a caucasian, or an african, or an indian, or vice versa?

If the Nazi's had deveoped genetic engineering, they'd have spent more time flushing the answers they didn't like down the toilet than invading anywhere. Take the whole 'Aryan master race' idea. Where does it come from? Linguistics. Studying ancient europian languages showed up a large percentage with strikingly related features. They founded a hypothesis. These languages are related because they are all derived from a single language, and a single language implies a single race speaking it. The first people I'm aware of to use this idea for political purposes were the british. When the british empire invaded india they needed a moral basis for keeping power. The ruling caste in india happened to be one of the 'aryan descendents' and though the caste system was not based on race the british argued that the high caste ruled because they were descended from the aryan master race. Since they also were aryan they had the right to rule.

These ideas gathered steam in germany following the end of the first world war. Its not hard to see why, they were stamped on and its the moral equivalant of a 'you may already have won' envelope coming through the door of the bored and desperate. The future of the world is here and coincidentally its almost the whole of you, the voting public in this country, but virtually noone else and none of those unpopular minorities.

The punchline took somewhat longer than the war. With the development of genetic sequencing they could finally put the aryan hypothesis to the test. Was there really a single race at the root? The results were not as clear as was hoped and could neither confirm or deny the myth. It did however show that the british and german people, who had both claimed superiority based on this 'Master race' were not descended from the aryans after all. An unsurprising result that confirmed what the linguists (who originated the idea anyway) and archiologists had been saying all along. It wont stop people wanting a blond blue eyed future inventing a new reason but then it was never about improving the race or fufilling any real destiny, just a popular excuse for obeying the primitive desire to murder anyone that doesn't share the same genes, however inferior or badly suited to the area they want them to populate.

I look around, I see my corner of civilisation buying lottery cards and dreaming of a future they dont have to work for. I see people blindly trusting in politicians and then acting so suprised and angry when they turn out to be stealing from the public purse to pay for deviant acts and in spite of seeing it happen on a regular basis their entire lives. I dont see anyone worthy of starting the master race without massive changes, and I dont see any natural or simple way of getting there. Most of all I dont see the future master race falling for the same lies our grandfathers told in order to make their flawed ideas popular.

[FUTI]

to Mods: something funny happened with forum options - I lost ability of quick reply on page in the middle of posting and posted text do not appear again so if two post come from me in this thread and look as double posting feel free to delete this one.

Marvin I couldn't agree more with your post. I tried to say more or less the same in the first post I wrote in this thread, but latter thread diverted and come to a stage where NBK 2000 is appealing on members to focus on whole picture. Even if genetic purity is achievable it isn't obtainable. Imagine your political leaders as hypotetical meritocratic elite that is given that task and you will understand why it is utopia. It is who write the rules and makes their execution that is crucial for this to be possible.

(WARNING! Disclaimer : Member FUTI denies any liability legal, moral or what-so-ever if reading previous sentence cause nightmares, cold sweats and other disturbances and health problems.:) )

To put genetic purity in grave, I will say just this. People hoped that humane genom project will solve all the problems and enigmas we are faced to. When it was completed it turned out that it is actually less genes encoded in it then it was postulated so it is arangement and combination that is crucial not number (quality not quantity). Software that is well designed and written will work faster even on out-dated junk then sparckling-shit software on latest machine. So from genomics - to proteomics - to who-knows-what...

[FUTI]

to Mods: something funny happened with forum options - I lost ability of quick reply on page in the middle of posting and posted text do not appear again so if two post come from me in this thread and look as double posting feel free to delete this one.

Marvin I couldn't agree more with your post. I tried to say more or less the same in the first post I wrote in this thread, but latter thread diverted and come to a stage where NBK 2000 is appealing on members to focus on whole picture. Even if genetic purity is achievable it isn't obtainable. Imagine your political leaders as hypotetical meritocratic elite that is given that task and you will understand why it is utopia. It is who write the rules and makes their execution that is crucial for this to be possible.

(WARNING! Disclaimer : Member FUTI denies any liability legal, moral or what-so-ever if reading previous sentence cause nightmares, cold sweats and other disturbances and health problems.:) )

To put genetic purity in grave, I will say just this. People hoped that humane genom project will solve all the problems and enigmas we are faced to. When it was completed it turned out that it is actually less genes encoded in it then it was postulated so it is arangement and combination that is crucial not number (quality not quantity). Software that is well designed and written will work faster even on out-dated junk then sparckling-shit software on latest machine. So from genomics - to proteomics - to who-knows-what...

[FUTI]

to Mods: something funny happened with forum options - I lost ability of quick reply on page in the middle of posting and posted text do not appear again so if two post come from me in this thread and look as double posting feel free to delete this one.

Marvin I couldn't agree more with your post. I tried to say more or less the same in the first post I wrote in this thread, but latter thread diverted and come to a stage where NBK 2000 is appealing on members to focus on whole picture. Even if genetic purity is achievable it isn't obtainable. Imagine your political leaders as hypotetical meritocratic elite that is given that task and you will understand why it is utopia. It is who write the rules and makes their execution that is crucial for this to be possible.

(WARNING! Disclaimer : Member FUTI denies any liability legal, moral or what-so-ever if reading previous sentence cause nightmares, cold sweats and other disturbances and health problems.:) )

To put genetic purity in grave, I will say just this. People hoped that humane genom project will solve all the problems and enigmas we are faced to. When it was completed it turned out that it is actually less genes encoded in it then it was postulated so it is arangement and combination that is crucial not number (quality not quantity). Software that is well designed and written will work faster even on out-dated junk then sparckling-shit software on latest machine. So from genomics - to proteomics - to who-knows-what...

[Jacks Complete]

All this is well and good, NBK, but I just don't see how anyone, even a large government, could do this, purely due to the costs involved.

Economics plays a big part. Only large companies go into mass production, and they need a good ROI or they have to stop - especially if they are then having to support everything for a fwe years at the same time.

Faster clones would be a great idea, but not really possible. They have to remain human-basic, and you won't get the brain faster, nor nerve impulses to go faster. Good training would remove this requirement, however, as "acting on instinct" is always faster.
However, stronger, fitter and faster-maturing are all possible. As is the requirement for enzyme deficiency.

About the timer gene/shortage, etc. Having a few different mechanisms might be useful, as well as ensuring it takes a few weeks to kick in, otherwise you would have issues with logistics and supply - "take your (vitamin) pills" would be dodgy, since the troops are eating in Wendy's and looted wine cellars, and they would be likely to spot something so crude. Also, those troops in the field would be at risk if they HAD to eat only "authorised" supplies.

Marvin/FUTI, NBK is right about this being possible from a technical veiwpoint. A clone army that dies off after twenty years would have no impact on the gene pool.

[Jacks Complete]

All this is well and good, NBK, but I just don't see how anyone, even a large government, could do this, purely due to the costs involved.

Economics plays a big part. Only large companies go into mass production, and they need a good ROI or they have to stop - especially if they are then having to support everything for a fwe years at the same time.

Faster clones would be a great idea, but not really possible. They have to remain human-basic, and you won't get the brain faster, nor nerve impulses to go faster. Good training would remove this requirement, however, as "acting on instinct" is always faster.
However, stronger, fitter and faster-maturing are all possible. As is the requirement for enzyme deficiency.

About the timer gene/shortage, etc. Having a few different mechanisms might be useful, as well as ensuring it takes a few weeks to kick in, otherwise you would have issues with logistics and supply - "take your (vitamin) pills" would be dodgy, since the troops are eating in Wendy's and looted wine cellars, and they would be likely to spot something so crude. Also, those troops in the field would be at risk if they HAD to eat only "authorised" supplies.

Marvin/FUTI, NBK is right about this being possible from a technical veiwpoint. A clone army that dies off after twenty years would have no impact on the gene pool.

[Jacks Complete]

All this is well and good, NBK, but I just don't see how anyone, even a large government, could do this, purely due to the costs involved.

Economics plays a big part. Only large companies go into mass production, and they need a good ROI or they have to stop - especially if they are then having to support everything for a fwe years at the same time.

Faster clones would be a great idea, but not really possible. They have to remain human-basic, and you won't get the brain faster, nor nerve impulses to go faster. Good training would remove this requirement, however, as "acting on instinct" is always faster.
However, stronger, fitter and faster-maturing are all possible. As is the requirement for enzyme deficiency.

About the timer gene/shortage, etc. Having a few different mechanisms might be useful, as well as ensuring it takes a few weeks to kick in, otherwise you would have issues with logistics and supply - "take your (vitamin) pills" would be dodgy, since the troops are eating in Wendy's and looted wine cellars, and they would be likely to spot something so crude. Also, those troops in the field would be at risk if they HAD to eat only "authorised" supplies.

Marvin/FUTI, NBK is right about this being possible from a technical veiwpoint. A clone army that dies off after twenty years would have no impact on the gene pool.

[FUTI]

to Jack's Complete: I agree with economy issues. It is achievable to isolate gold from sea water, but it isn't economicaly obtainable taking into account its concentration and mass of solution needed to be processed to get any reasonable quantity.

Shorter life span and faster ageing is disorder already known to us but it leads to death in childhood and isn't studied enough AFAIK, to control this and use it as needed is still futuristic. Deficiency for insulin for example can do the same but that is to understudied subject - it also opens the question are that way altered soldiers a true match to common one conscript/profesional soldier as its physical strength must be finely tuned and that kind of safety engeneering reduce some of their abilities - but maybe this isn't best example and it certainly depends on tactical expectations you have from clones (is it just the number of clones that you are counting on or you want universal soldier).

Clones must also be sterile because if they start to mix their genes with the rest of the population it is recept for disaster, not because they have been altered even if they cloned anyone of us in that number of copies it would be the same. I remember that there were a case of a doctor who worked in some kind of fertility clinic and he used his semen to combine with egg to be implated in woman uterus instead of semen of donors. He has been busted after a many years during which he made approx. 60 children "of his own". As he worked in small town biologist said it is near death of that city as he disturbed genetic population in such way that his genetic set is now being dominant there leading to higher probability of genetic and other problems. As you would need a couple of million clones to conquer the planet make sure they can't reproduce just in case...and not only to die after 20 years.

[FUTI]

to Jack's Complete: I agree with economy issues. It is achievable to isolate gold from sea water, but it isn't economicaly obtainable taking into account its concentration and mass of solution needed to be processed to get any reasonable quantity.

Shorter life span and faster ageing is disorder already known to us but it leads to death in childhood and isn't studied enough AFAIK, to control this and use it as needed is still futuristic. Deficiency for insulin for example can do the same but that is to understudied subject - it also opens the question are that way altered soldiers a true match to common one conscript/profesional soldier as its physical strength must be finely tuned and that kind of safety engeneering reduce some of their abilities - but maybe this isn't best example and it certainly depends on tactical expectations you have from clones (is it just the number of clones that you are counting on or you want universal soldier).

Clones must also be sterile because if they start to mix their genes with the rest of the population it is recept for disaster, not because they have been altered even if they cloned anyone of us in that number of copies it would be the same. I remember that there were a case of a doctor who worked in some kind of fertility clinic and he used his semen to combine with egg to be implated in woman uterus instead of semen of donors. He has been busted after a many years during which he made approx. 60 children "of his own". As he worked in small town biologist said it is near death of that city as he disturbed genetic population in such way that his genetic set is now being dominant there leading to higher probability of genetic and other problems. As you would need a couple of million clones to conquer the planet make sure they can't reproduce just in case...and not only to die after 20 years.

[FUTI]

to Jack's Complete: I agree with economy issues. It is achievable to isolate gold from sea water, but it isn't economicaly obtainable taking into account its concentration and mass of solution needed to be processed to get any reasonable quantity.

Shorter life span and faster ageing is disorder already known to us but it leads to death in childhood and isn't studied enough AFAIK, to control this and use it as needed is still futuristic. Deficiency for insulin for example can do the same but that is to understudied subject - it also opens the question are that way altered soldiers a true match to common one conscript/profesional soldier as its physical strength must be finely tuned and that kind of safety engeneering reduce some of their abilities - but maybe this isn't best example and it certainly depends on tactical expectations you have from clones (is it just the number of clones that you are counting on or you want universal soldier).

Clones must also be sterile because if they start to mix their genes with the rest of the population it is recept for disaster, not because they have been altered even if they cloned anyone of us in that number of copies it would be the same. I remember that there were a case of a doctor who worked in some kind of fertility clinic and he used his semen to combine with egg to be implated in woman uterus instead of semen of donors. He has been busted after a many years during which he made approx. 60 children "of his own". As he worked in small town biologist said it is near death of that city as he disturbed genetic population in such way that his genetic set is now being dominant there leading to higher probability of genetic and other problems. As you would need a couple of million clones to conquer the planet make sure they can't reproduce just in case...and not only to die after 20 years.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, I doubt that the genes of 60 kids being quite similar is going to do anything to anywhere larger than a small village, in a first or second world country. Even if they all fell ill in the same way (non-chronic incurable disease aside) they could be treated, and if it was chronic and incurable, they could be spread about a bit, and looked after across a wide number of hospitals. Only 75%, 50% or 25% would ever be prey to it, though. 100% would be a disease that killed everyone! (This is due to population statistics with Mendelian gene swapping)

Faster aging is currently not possible for a useful clone, since we don't know which genes control maturity rates in humans. However, farmed salmon and other animals bred to mature quickly for food show the way there. Just a few generations can lead to dramatic changes in maturity rates, and looking at the genes that are different from wild salmon and across other breeds, you would have a good head start.

Sexless clones might be an idea, as they would (perhaps) be easier to control, and energy wouldn't be wasted with development of sex organs, etc. but this is far further into sci-fi.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, I doubt that the genes of 60 kids being quite similar is going to do anything to anywhere larger than a small village, in a first or second world country. Even if they all fell ill in the same way (non-chronic incurable disease aside) they could be treated, and if it was chronic and incurable, they could be spread about a bit, and looked after across a wide number of hospitals. Only 75%, 50% or 25% would ever be prey to it, though. 100% would be a disease that killed everyone! (This is due to population statistics with Mendelian gene swapping)

Faster aging is currently not possible for a useful clone, since we don't know which genes control maturity rates in humans. However, farmed salmon and other animals bred to mature quickly for food show the way there. Just a few generations can lead to dramatic changes in maturity rates, and looking at the genes that are different from wild salmon and across other breeds, you would have a good head start.

Sexless clones might be an idea, as they would (perhaps) be easier to control, and energy wouldn't be wasted with development of sex organs, etc. but this is far further into sci-fi.

[Jacks Complete]

FUTI, I doubt that the genes of 60 kids being quite similar is going to do anything to anywhere larger than a small village, in a first or second world country. Even if they all fell ill in the same way (non-chronic incurable disease aside) they could be treated, and if it was chronic and incurable, they could be spread about a bit, and looked after across a wide number of hospitals. Only 75%, 50% or 25% would ever be prey to it, though. 100% would be a disease that killed everyone! (This is due to population statistics with Mendelian gene swapping)

Faster aging is currently not possible for a useful clone, since we don't know which genes control maturity rates in humans. However, farmed salmon and other animals bred to mature quickly for food show the way there. Just a few generations can lead to dramatic changes in maturity rates, and looking at the genes that are different from wild salmon and across other breeds, you would have a good head start.

Sexless clones might be an idea, as they would (perhaps) be easier to control, and energy wouldn't be wasted with development of sex organs, etc. but this is far further into sci-fi.

[Silentnite]

I think that those of you saying that the technology isn't there are looking at this the wrong way.

Currently the ones "Curing" diseases and cancers and such are the drug companies. Who make money of you STAYING sick. So no, the "technology" as such documented and publicized isn't there, but it would be achievable for those of us who set out to figure it out.

Most of the technology required for this kind of experiment, would be rather feasible for anyone with the means to set down and trial and error. Hell, in the end it will probably come as some sort of kit evil masterminds :cool: can call up a hotline and order. :D

"Hi, I would like to order your 'Clone your way to world domination' kit please? And can you overnight it, I have a roadrunner to kill" :p

[Silentnite]

I think that those of you saying that the technology isn't there are looking at this the wrong way.

Currently the ones "Curing" diseases and cancers and such are the drug companies. Who make money of you STAYING sick. So no, the "technology" as such documented and publicized isn't there, but it would be achievable for those of us who set out to figure it out.

Most of the technology required for this kind of experiment, would be rather feasible for anyone with the means to set down and trial and error. Hell, in the end it will probably come as some sort of kit evil masterminds :cool: can call up a hotline and order. :D

"Hi, I would like to order your 'Clone your way to world domination' kit please? And can you overnight it, I have a roadrunner to kill" :p

[Silentnite]

I think that those of you saying that the technology isn't there are looking at this the wrong way.

Currently the ones "Curing" diseases and cancers and such are the drug companies. Who make money of you STAYING sick. So no, the "technology" as such documented and publicized isn't there, but it would be achievable for those of us who set out to figure it out.

Most of the technology required for this kind of experiment, would be rather feasible for anyone with the means to set down and trial and error. Hell, in the end it will probably come as some sort of kit evil masterminds :cool: can call up a hotline and order. :D

"Hi, I would like to order your 'Clone your way to world domination' kit please? And can you overnight it, I have a roadrunner to kill" :p

[nbk2000]

The ability to reconcile contradictions is the mark of a superior intellect.

If using animal DNA in the clone army was as likely to succeed as using parts of the mud gene-set, then there'd be gorilla strength, cheeta speed, cat nightvision, dog smell, etc. in the clones.

However, since that's highly improbable to succeed at our currently technology level, using DNA that's compatible is the most logical thing to do.

From olympic records, the strongest humans are whites, the fastest are black. So it'd be best to have the genes that make the niggers such fast runners in your strong white clone soldiers.

The fact that they have some mud genes in them is irrelevant because they're are going to die anyways, and are not going to be part of your gene pool, being sterile. Once they've served their purpose, they are disposed off, and any that are missed are going to die shortly anyway, either from the built-in defect or from the accelerated aging.

And while there may be some basis for arguing over the orgins of the word 'Aryan', it too is irrelevant, as you have to have a word to describe a concept, and 'Aryan' is just as good as any, and has the benefit of prior useage. :)

In order for any of this to happen, it'd require the funding on par with a nation-state, or a huge breakthrough in genetics to make it more feasible. Something like a genetic Manhattan Project.

But it'd have to happen soon, as peak oil has already happened and the cheap energy required to power the production and maintainence of multi-millions of clones isn't going to be there in 50 years time.

Not only the electrical power, but also the petrochemical industry and all the drugs and chemicals that will be required.

Might I add that china, the next superpower, has a highly agrarian society that could sustain itself at a low level while maintaining a huge peasant army? And are they not just a 'Long March' away from seizing the last oilfields of the middle-east, forcing the west into another world war for domination of the energy supply it needs to sustain itself?

Without oil, the western armies will revert to a near 3rd world level of existence, a level it hasn't experienced for 200 years. At this level, numbers matter, and china has those numbers.

Oh, sure, they'll lose hundreds of millions when the western armies are forced to use their nukes in a last-gasp attack, after their conventional forces grind to a halt from a lack of oil, but they've got the population and space to absorb such an attack with minimal disruption.

After the nukes are spent, the west is through, since all of europe and america put together barely equals china, and china will be in control of the last usable oil fields in the world.

I've never heard anything about the chinks being tolerant of racial 'diversity'. Nope, not a word. This kooky notion of 'tolerance and diversity' only seems to be something that afflicts the west, and only from the liberals, who just so happen to be the parrots of their former Soviet masters cold-war plan of destroying the west from within with this shit.

And it's WORKING!

Countries that are racial 'diverse' ALWAYS disintegrate once there's no clear majority. Show me one country today that has no racial majority over 50% and I'll show you a country that's either falling apart or only being held together by brute force.

The advantage we have NOW is our superior technology, which is a huge force multiplier, but the technology requires oil, and once the oil is gone or out of our control, we lose the advantage and the chinks sheer numbers will be the deciding force.

So we, people of white european descent, have better start getting our asses in gear for fighting and winning the next world war in 20-30 years, or in a hundred years our grandchildren will be fighting a losing battle against an endless yellow horde that is going to destroy them and the white race with them.

Don't make the classic mistake of fighting the next war like the last war. On that road lies defeat.

And another reason why this would have to happen soon is because, once the cheap oil is gone, the likelyhood of getting into space on a permanent basis dramatically drops, and what's the point of winning the race war if your species dies from a space rock slamming into the planet?

PS: Chinks hate niggers and other muds just as much as any Aryan does, so don't think that because you're not white that you are safe...you're not.

[nbk2000]

The ability to reconcile contradictions is the mark of a superior intellect.

If using animal DNA in the clone army was as likely to succeed as using parts of the mud gene-set, then there'd be gorilla strength, cheeta speed, cat nightvision, dog smell, etc. in the clones.

However, since that's highly improbable to succeed at our currently technology level, using DNA that's compatible is the most logical thing to do.

From olympic records, the strongest humans are whites, the fastest are black. So it'd be best to have the genes that make the niggers such fast runners in your strong white clone soldiers.

The fact that they have some mud genes in them is irrelevant because they're are going to die anyways, and are not going to be part of your gene pool, being sterile. Once they've served their purpose, they are disposed off, and any that are missed are going to die shortly anyway, either from the built-in defect or from the accelerated aging.

And while there may be some basis for arguing over the orgins of the word 'Aryan', it too is irrelevant, as you have to have a word to describe a concept, and 'Aryan' is just as good as any, and has the benefit of prior useage. :)

In order for any of this to happen, it'd require the funding on par with a nation-state, or a huge breakthrough in genetics to make it more feasible. Something like a genetic Manhattan Project.

But it'd have to happen soon, as peak oil has already happened and the cheap energy required to power the production and maintainence of multi-millions of clones isn't going to be there in 50 years time.

Not only the electrical power, but also the petrochemical industry and all the drugs and chemicals that will be required.

Might I add that china, the next superpower, has a highly agrarian society that could sustain itself at a low level while maintaining a huge peasant army? And are they not just a 'Long March' away from seizing the last oilfields of the middle-east, forcing the west into another world war for domination of the energy supply it needs to sustain itself?

Without oil, the western armies will revert to a near 3rd world level of existence, a level it hasn't experienced for 200 years. At this level, numbers matter, and china has those numbers.

Oh, sure, they'll lose hundreds of millions when the western armies are forced to use their nukes in a last-gasp attack, after their conventional forces grind to a halt from a lack of oil, but they've got the population and space to absorb such an attack with minimal disruption.

After the nukes are spent, the west is through, since all of europe and america put together barely equals china, and china will be in control of the last usable oil fields in the world.

I've never heard anything about the chinks being tolerant of racial 'diversity'. Nope, not a word. This kooky notion of 'tolerance and diversity' only seems to be something that afflicts the west, and only from the liberals, who just so happen to be the parrots of their former Soviet masters cold-war plan of destroying the west from within with this shit.

And it's WORKING!

Countries that are racial 'diverse' ALWAYS disintegrate once there's no clear majority. Show me one country today that has no racial majority over 50% and I'll show you a country that's either falling apart or only being held together by brute force.

The advantage we have NOW is our superior technology, which is a huge force multiplier, but the technology requires oil, and once the oil is gone or out of our control, we lose the advantage and the chinks sheer numbers will be the deciding force.

So we, people of white european descent, have better start getting our asses in gear for fighting and winning the next world war in 20-30 years, or in a hundred years our grandchildren will be fighting a losing battle against an endless yellow horde that is going to destroy them and the white race with them.

Don't make the classic mistake of fighting the next war like the last war. On that road lies defeat.

And another reason why this would have to happen soon is because, once the cheap oil is gone, the likelyhood of getting into space on a permanent basis dramatically drops, and what's the point of winning the race war if your species dies from a space rock slamming into the planet?

PS: Chinks hate niggers and other muds just as much as any Aryan does, so don't think that because you're not white that you are safe...you're not.

[nbk2000]

The ability to reconcile contradictions is the mark of a superior intellect.

If using animal DNA in the clone army was as likely to succeed as using parts of the mud gene-set, then there'd be gorilla strength, cheeta speed, cat nightvision, dog smell, etc. in the clones.

However, since that's highly improbable to succeed at our currently technology level, using DNA that's compatible is the most logical thing to do.

From olympic records, the strongest humans are whites, the fastest are black. So it'd be best to have the genes that make the niggers such fast runners in your strong white clone soldiers.

The fact that they have some mud genes in them is irrelevant because they're are going to die anyways, and are not going to be part of your gene pool, being sterile. Once they've served their purpose, they are disposed off, and any that are missed are going to die shortly anyway, either from the built-in defect or from the accelerated aging.

And while there may be some basis for arguing over the orgins of the word 'Aryan', it too is irrelevant, as you have to have a word to describe a concept, and 'Aryan' is just as good as any, and has the benefit of prior useage. :)

In order for any of this to happen, it'd require the funding on par with a nation-state, or a huge breakthrough in genetics to make it more feasible. Something like a genetic Manhattan Project.

But it'd have to happen soon, as peak oil has already happened and the cheap energy required to power the production and maintainence of multi-millions of clones isn't going to be there in 50 years time.

Not only the electrical power, but also the petrochemical industry and all the drugs and chemicals that will be required.

Might I add that china, the next superpower, has a highly agrarian society that could sustain itself at a low level while maintaining a huge peasant army? And are they not just a 'Long March' away from seizing the last oilfields of the middle-east, forcing the west into another world war for domination of the energy supply it needs to sustain itself?

Without oil, the western armies will revert to a near 3rd world level of existence, a level it hasn't experienced for 200 years. At this level, numbers matter, and china has those numbers.

Oh, sure, they'll lose hundreds of millions when the western armies are forced to use their nukes in a last-gasp attack, after their conventional forces grind to a halt from a lack of oil, but they've got the population and space to absorb such an attack with minimal disruption.

After the nukes are spent, the west is through, since all of europe and america put together barely equals china, and china will be in control of the last usable oil fields in the world.

I've never heard anything about the chinks being tolerant of racial 'diversity'. Nope, not a word. This kooky notion of 'tolerance and diversity' only seems to be something that afflicts the west, and only from the liberals, who just so happen to be the parrots of their former Soviet masters cold-war plan of destroying the west from within with this shit.

And it's WORKING!

Countries that are racial 'diverse' ALWAYS disintegrate once there's no clear majority. Show me one country today that has no racial majority over 50% and I'll show you a country that's either falling apart or only being held together by brute force.

The advantage we have NOW is our superior technology, which is a huge force multiplier, but the technology requires oil, and once the oil is gone or out of our control, we lose the advantage and the chinks sheer numbers will be the deciding force.

So we, people of white european descent, have better start getting our asses in gear for fighting and winning the next world war in 20-30 years, or in a hundred years our grandchildren will be fighting a losing battle against an endless yellow horde that is going to destroy them and the white race with them.

Don't make the classic mistake of fighting the next war like the last war. On that road lies defeat.

And another reason why this would have to happen soon is because, once the cheap oil is gone, the likelyhood of getting into space on a permanent basis dramatically drops, and what's the point of winning the race war if your species dies from a space rock slamming into the planet?

PS: Chinks hate niggers and other muds just as much as any Aryan does, so don't think that because you're not white that you are safe...you're not.

[Bugger]

Speaking of cloning, test-tube breeding, racial hybrids, etc., would anyone like to comment on the reported claims by many people who say they have been abducted by aliens into UFOs, had sperm and ova removed if they were fertile, in some cases had mysterious pregnancies that disappeared after about 3 months, seen rows of liquid-filled incubators containing alien-human hybrid fetuses, and in some cases met alien-human hybrid children?

[Bugger]

Speaking of cloning, test-tube breeding, racial hybrids, etc., would anyone like to comment on the reported claims by many people who say they have been abducted by aliens into UFOs, had sperm and ova removed if they were fertile, in some cases had mysterious pregnancies that disappeared after about 3 months, seen rows of liquid-filled incubators containing alien-human hybrid fetuses, and in some cases met alien-human hybrid children?

[Bugger]

Speaking of cloning, test-tube breeding, racial hybrids, etc., would anyone like to comment on the reported claims by many people who say they have been abducted by aliens into UFOs, had sperm and ova removed if they were fertile, in some cases had mysterious pregnancies that disappeared after about 3 months, seen rows of liquid-filled incubators containing alien-human hybrid fetuses, and in some cases met alien-human hybrid children?

[Silentnite]

*CLASSIFIED*

J/K, Kinda OT, but anyways. I'd say its possible(suprise), but it'd be pretty far fetched. And why would they bother with our race?? We've obviously screwed up pretty bad...

[Silentnite]

*CLASSIFIED*

J/K, Kinda OT, but anyways. I'd say its possible(suprise), but it'd be pretty far fetched. And why would they bother with our race?? We've obviously screwed up pretty bad...

[Silentnite]

*CLASSIFIED*

J/K, Kinda OT, but anyways. I'd say its possible(suprise), but it'd be pretty far fetched. And why would they bother with our race?? We've obviously screwed up pretty bad...

[festergrump]

Who's to say that they aren't homo sapiens but more evolved to the point of needing to re-inbreed some of our immunities? It's proven that with extreme cleanliness and great hygene the human body loses much of it's resistance to disease.

Perhaps these "aliens" are even breeding this ultimate warrior race to send to war against a species on some foul spitball planet in Alpha Centauri whose airborn germs would wreak havoc on their entire race... A simple flu virus could wipe them out of existance, hence they only come to Earth in such few numbers out of neccesity to obtain a few specimens to further their ultimate goal. Maybe the planet they wish to take over is ours? (or perhaps I've read far too much Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov). :rolleyes:

Aliens are probably here viewing us rather than studying us. It's gotta be like fricken comedy central for little green men.

Bugger, read the book Communion. I forgot the authors name (I read it long ago) but it entertains some interesting ideas and supposed accounts. I found some of the notions chilling.

[festergrump]

Who's to say that they aren't homo sapiens but more evolved to the point of needing to re-inbreed some of our immunities? It's proven that with extreme cleanliness and great hygene the human body loses much of it's resistance to disease.

Perhaps these "aliens" are even breeding this ultimate warrior race to send to war against a species on some foul spitball planet in Alpha Centauri whose airborn germs would wreak havoc on their entire race... A simple flu virus could wipe them out of existance, hence they only come to Earth in such few numbers out of neccesity to obtain a few specimens to further their ultimate goal. Maybe the planet they wish to take over is ours? (or perhaps I've read far too much Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov). :rolleyes:

Aliens are probably here viewing us rather than studying us. It's gotta be like fricken comedy central for little green men.

Bugger, read the book Communion. I forgot the authors name (I read it long ago) but it entertains some interesting ideas and supposed accounts. I found some of the notions chilling.

[festergrump]

Who's to say that they aren't homo sapiens but more evolved to the point of needing to re-inbreed some of our immunities? It's proven that with extreme cleanliness and great hygene the human body loses much of it's resistance to disease.

Perhaps these "aliens" are even breeding this ultimate warrior race to send to war against a species on some foul spitball planet in Alpha Centauri whose airborn germs would wreak havoc on their entire race... A simple flu virus could wipe them out of existance, hence they only come to Earth in such few numbers out of neccesity to obtain a few specimens to further their ultimate goal. Maybe the planet they wish to take over is ours? (or perhaps I've read far too much Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov). :rolleyes:

Aliens are probably here viewing us rather than studying us. It's gotta be like fricken comedy central for little green men.

Bugger, read the book Communion. I forgot the authors name (I read it long ago) but it entertains some interesting ideas and supposed accounts. I found some of the notions chilling.

[elementc]

I don't give a crap about skin color. All I care about is intelligence.

[elementc]

I don't give a crap about skin color. All I care about is intelligence.

[elementc]

I don't give a crap about skin color. All I care about is intelligence.

[Jacks Complete]

fester, surely you mean H.G. Wells, and "War of the Worlds"? (Get the Jeff Wayne version for the superb music, or perhaps the original radio play by Orson Wells, which caused panic when first broadcast, though I don't know if it is available)

NBK, you might want to watch the new film "The Island" which actually seems to mirror some of the ideas on here, from what I saw of the trailer. Also, "The island of Doctor Moreau" deals with the fun when chimerics go wild!

[Jacks Complete]

fester, surely you mean H.G. Wells, and "War of the Worlds"? (Get the Jeff Wayne version for the superb music, or perhaps the original radio play by Orson Wells, which caused panic when first broadcast, though I don't know if it is available)

NBK, you might want to watch the new film "The Island" which actually seems to mirror some of the ideas on here, from what I saw of the trailer. Also, "The island of Doctor Moreau" deals with the fun when chimerics go wild!

[Jacks Complete]

fester, surely you mean H.G. Wells, and "War of the Worlds"? (Get the Jeff Wayne version for the superb music, or perhaps the original radio play by Orson Wells, which caused panic when first broadcast, though I don't know if it is available)

NBK, you might want to watch the new film "The Island" which actually seems to mirror some of the ideas on here, from what I saw of the trailer. Also, "The island of Doctor Moreau" deals with the fun when chimerics go wild!

[xyz]

NBK, I don't think that combining black speed and white strength would be possible...

The reason that blacks are usually faster is because they evolved in hotter climates where a taller and slimmer build dissipates heat more easily, this type of build also happens to be good for speed.

Whites, on the other hand, evolved in colder climates and tend to have shorter and heavier builds that lose less heat, this type of build makes whites less suited to speed but also capable of putting on more muscle mass that the average black.

I'm talking averages here, sure you get white guys who are tall skinny beanpoles and black guys who are short and heavily built, but the general rule is that blacks have taller and slimmer builds.

That said, it would be a "one or the other" thing, and you wouldn't be able to combine the two types of build to get the best of both worlds. An attempt to do so would most likely result in an average build that wasn't exceptional in either speed or strength.

[xyz]

NBK, I don't think that combining black speed and white strength would be possible...

The reason that blacks are usually faster is because they evolved in hotter climates where a taller and slimmer build dissipates heat more easily, this type of build also happens to be good for speed.

Whites, on the other hand, evolved in colder climates and tend to have shorter and heavier builds that lose less heat, this type of build makes whites less suited to speed but also capable of putting on more muscle mass that the average black.

I'm talking averages here, sure you get white guys who are tall skinny beanpoles and black guys who are short and heavily built, but the general rule is that blacks have taller and slimmer builds.

That said, it would be a "one or the other" thing, and you wouldn't be able to combine the two types of build to get the best of both worlds. An attempt to do so would most likely result in an average build that wasn't exceptional in either speed or strength.

[xyz]

NBK, I don't think that combining black speed and white strength would be possible...

The reason that blacks are usually faster is because they evolved in hotter climates where a taller and slimmer build dissipates heat more easily, this type of build also happens to be good for speed.

Whites, on the other hand, evolved in colder climates and tend to have shorter and heavier builds that lose less heat, this type of build makes whites less suited to speed but also capable of putting on more muscle mass that the average black.

I'm talking averages here, sure you get white guys who are tall skinny beanpoles and black guys who are short and heavily built, but the general rule is that blacks have taller and slimmer builds.

That said, it would be a "one or the other" thing, and you wouldn't be able to combine the two types of build to get the best of both worlds. An attempt to do so would most likely result in an average build that wasn't exceptional in either speed or strength.

[Jacks Complete]

You are overly generalising there. Caribbean males tend to be far more heavily built than African males, and easily as heavy as white men.

Also, it has been proven that it is as much to do with average temperatures as you grow up, whether you become a wimp or a slab. If you are warm all the time, you will be less chunky than the same build type in a colder average place. Of course, indoor heating now has a lot to do with this!

[Jacks Complete]

You are overly generalising there. Caribbean males tend to be far more heavily built than African males, and easily as heavy as white men.

Also, it has been proven that it is as much to do with average temperatures as you grow up, whether you become a wimp or a slab. If you are warm all the time, you will be less chunky than the same build type in a colder average place. Of course, indoor heating now has a lot to do with this!

[Jacks Complete]

You are overly generalising there. Caribbean males tend to be far more heavily built than African males, and easily as heavy as white men.

Also, it has been proven that it is as much to do with average temperatures as you grow up, whether you become a wimp or a slab. If you are warm all the time, you will be less chunky than the same build type in a colder average place. Of course, indoor heating now has a lot to do with this!

[Silentnite]

What about you blood type? I am rather hot-blooded, and have been all my life. Not in the anger sense, but in the fact that I can go out 25-30F weather with just a t-shirt and still be relatively warm. And as such, if I follow the theory correctly that is, I am quite tall and athletic. I did at one point run track, but I would say I'm decently stocky, and with some excercise could be a pretty hefty guy.

So does the heat of your blood have anything to do with it? Or am I just like this due to my ancestors gettin freaky?

[Silentnite]

What about you blood type? I am rather hot-blooded, and have been all my life. Not in the anger sense, but in the fact that I can go out 25-30F weather with just a t-shirt and still be relatively warm. And as such, if I follow the theory correctly that is, I am quite tall and athletic. I did at one point run track, but I would say I'm decently stocky, and with some excercise could be a pretty hefty guy.

So does the heat of your blood have anything to do with it? Or am I just like this due to my ancestors gettin freaky?

[Silentnite]

What about you blood type? I am rather hot-blooded, and have been all my life. Not in the anger sense, but in the fact that I can go out 25-30F weather with just a t-shirt and still be relatively warm. And as such, if I follow the theory correctly that is, I am quite tall and athletic. I did at one point run track, but I would say I'm decently stocky, and with some excercise could be a pretty hefty guy.

So does the heat of your blood have anything to do with it? Or am I just like this due to my ancestors gettin freaky?

[Jacks Complete]

Hmmm... You might be on to something, but as far as I know, there is no correlation.

I think it is more to do with blood pressure and flow rates to the surface, because your actual core body temp is exactly the same as mine. I know that my skin is normally cool to the touch of another, yet I hate the cold! However, even a small excertion warms me up very rapidly, and then other times I fail to notice the temperature at all. It seems to depend on the day, but why I have no idea.

If you were often out in the cold wearing not that much, you would naturally bulk up, as your body increased it's mass to retain heat better. The flipside to that is if you are active and outdoors, you would be getting far more exercise than the usual couch potato, and bulk up from that!

[Jacks Complete]

Hmmm... You might be on to something, but as far as I know, there is no correlation.

I think it is more to do with blood pressure and flow rates to the surface, because your actual core body temp is exactly the same as mine. I know that my skin is normally cool to the touch of another, yet I hate the cold! However, even a small excertion warms me up very rapidly, and then other times I fail to notice the temperature at all. It seems to depend on the day, but why I have no idea.

If you were often out in the cold wearing not that much, you would naturally bulk up, as your body increased it's mass to retain heat better. The flipside to that is if you are active and outdoors, you would be getting far more exercise than the usual couch potato, and bulk up from that!

[Jacks Complete]

Hmmm... You might be on to something, but as far as I know, there is no correlation.

I think it is more to do with blood pressure and flow rates to the surface, because your actual core body temp is exactly the same as mine. I know that my skin is normally cool to the touch of another, yet I hate the cold! However, even a small excertion warms me up very rapidly, and then other times I fail to notice the temperature at all. It seems to depend on the day, but why I have no idea.

If you were often out in the cold wearing not that much, you would naturally bulk up, as your body increased it's mass to retain heat better. The flipside to that is if you are active and outdoors, you would be getting far more exercise than the usual couch potato, and bulk up from that!

[xyz]

Jack's Complete, it's pretty obvious that I was over-generalising (damn I hate the word generalising... nothing against you, just I know some people who would tear your head of for generalising if you said that chilis were hot or that dogs bark...), I was just giving the reason as to why blacks tend to be faster and whites tend to be stronger - to communicate my main point, i.e. why it probably isn't possible to combine these attributes.

Silentnite, I think what you're describing is metabolic rate, not blood type. I'm quite similar in that I don't get cold easily. Do you tend to eat a lot for your size and not gain weight easily?

[xyz]

Jack's Complete, it's pretty obvious that I was over-generalising (damn I hate the word generalising... nothing against you, just I know some people who would tear your head of for generalising if you said that chilis were hot or that dogs bark...), I was just giving the reason as to why blacks tend to be faster and whites tend to be stronger - to communicate my main point, i.e. why it probably isn't possible to combine these attributes.

Silentnite, I think what you're describing is metabolic rate, not blood type. I'm quite similar in that I don't get cold easily. Do you tend to eat a lot for your size and not gain weight easily?

[xyz]

Jack's Complete, it's pretty obvious that I was over-generalising (damn I hate the word generalising... nothing against you, just I know some people who would tear your head of for generalising if you said that chilis were hot or that dogs bark...), I was just giving the reason as to why blacks tend to be faster and whites tend to be stronger - to communicate my main point, i.e. why it probably isn't possible to combine these attributes.

Silentnite, I think what you're describing is metabolic rate, not blood type. I'm quite similar in that I don't get cold easily. Do you tend to eat a lot for your size and not gain weight easily?

[Silentnite]

Ah yes. You have pinpointed it. I have stayed the same weight for about 2 years now, and am only recently gaining any kind of appreciable weight. Before that I had stayed the same weight(fluctuating ~5lbs give or take) for about 5 years.

My metabolic is very high, and my body fat is very low. Starving pigmy from Elbonia low.

Me and my brothers have a strong correlation as well. Maybe typifying blacks and whites is the wrong way to go, and merely finding what you would like in whites would be ok. I know that scientists will mate Flower A and B several times until they get the traits they like, and then introduce C to AB several times and so on.


EDIT:: In response to XYZ's later post, 19, 160lbs(around 72.2Kilo) and 6'1" with a body index of about 7%. It is easier for me to lift myself, I can pull myself up a rope with just my hands pretty fast. Muscle mass is probably not what it could be, but well defined. I think in the end something of what I mentioned above about just breeding the desired traits from your average white would garner any and all results you could want.

[Silentnite]

Ah yes. You have pinpointed it. I have stayed the same weight for about 2 years now, and am only recently gaining any kind of appreciable weight. Before that I had stayed the same weight(fluctuating ~5lbs give or take) for about 5 years.

My metabolic is very high, and my body fat is very low. Starving pigmy from Elbonia low.

Me and my brothers have a strong correlation as well. Maybe typifying blacks and whites is the wrong way to go, and merely finding what you would like in whites would be ok. I know that scientists will mate Flower A and B several times until they get the traits they like, and then introduce C to AB several times and so on.


EDIT:: In response to XYZ's later post, 19, 160lbs(around 72.2Kilo) and 6'1" with a body index of about 7%. It is easier for me to lift myself, I can pull myself up a rope with just my hands pretty fast. Muscle mass is probably not what it could be, but well defined. I think in the end something of what I mentioned above about just breeding the desired traits from your average white would garner any and all results you could want.

[Silentnite]

Ah yes. You have pinpointed it. I have stayed the same weight for about 2 years now, and am only recently gaining any kind of appreciable weight. Before that I had stayed the same weight(fluctuating ~5lbs give or take) for about 5 years.

My metabolic is very high, and my body fat is very low. Starving pigmy from Elbonia low.

Me and my brothers have a strong correlation as well. Maybe typifying blacks and whites is the wrong way to go, and merely finding what you would like in whites would be ok. I know that scientists will mate Flower A and B several times until they get the traits they like, and then introduce C to AB several times and so on.


EDIT:: In response to XYZ's later post, 19, 160lbs(around 72.2Kilo) and 6'1" with a body index of about 7%. It is easier for me to lift myself, I can pull myself up a rope with just my hands pretty fast. Muscle mass is probably not what it could be, but well defined. I think in the end something of what I mentioned above about just breeding the desired traits from your average white would garner any and all results you could want.

[festergrump]

JC, Jeff Waynes version rocks! I find it so wonderfully creepy to listen to (also the WotW game is a favorite of mine, very similar to Command and Conquer, Red Alert II).

Metablolism has a major effect on how much cold or heat you can stand (among other things). While I was in my prime I could walk the streets of Chicago without more than a flannel shirt in the dead of winter with no discomfort. Now my metabolic rate is slowing down and I find my resistance to chill is very much lower. Just you wait, Silentnite and XYZ. (muhahaha!) When age grabs you by the nuts it never lets go, my friends! (luckily, you can always work out and turn that added weight from a slower metabolism into muscle. You just need to work a little harder at it when you get older). :)

Sort of BOT, niggers don't work. WHY in the hell would anyone want to breed their genetic qualities into an ultimate race? Your new "ULTIMATE" race would always seek the path of least resistance and complain more than fight.

Not only that, their attention spans are so low and their thought process so much slower than their motor skills will allow they often repeat the same motion or phrase of speech over and over that it becomes so easy to determine in advance. Watch a couple of them argue if you don't believe me. Such repetition and such little thought. WHY? Laziness... ("Why you frontin'? Why you frontin'? Why you frontin'? You ain't a player! You ain't a player! Beotch! I smack you! Why you frontin'? Beotch! I smack you! Beotch!...ect.). It all stems from their neccesity to be heard over their numerous siblings, surely, and the laziness from their endless free-ride in society, but WHY in the FUCK would you want to taint the white race with such negative traits???

The best weapon I can think of is the mind. They simply have anything but the mind we'd be looking for, and to incorperate it would dilute the norm. They have also neither the will or the might. [generally speaking, of course. ;) ]

Q: How do you get a black soldier to drop his weapon?
A: Throw him a basketball.

[festergrump]

JC, Jeff Waynes version rocks! I find it so wonderfully creepy to listen to (also the WotW game is a favorite of mine, very similar to Command and Conquer, Red Alert II).

Metablolism has a major effect on how much cold or heat you can stand (among other things). While I was in my prime I could walk the streets of Chicago without more than a flannel shirt in the dead of winter with no discomfort. Now my metabolic rate is slowing down and I find my resistance to chill is very much lower. Just you wait, Silentnite and XYZ. (muhahaha!) When age grabs you by the nuts it never lets go, my friends! (luckily, you can always work out and turn that added weight from a slower metabolism into muscle. You just need to work a little harder at it when you get older). :)

Sort of BOT, niggers don't work. WHY in the hell would anyone want to breed their genetic qualities into an ultimate race? Your new "ULTIMATE" race would always seek the path of least resistance and complain more than fight.

Not only that, their attention spans are so low and their thought process so much slower than their motor skills will allow they often repeat the same motion or phrase of speech over and over that it becomes so easy to determine in advance. Watch a couple of them argue if you don't believe me. Such repetition and such little thought. WHY? Laziness... ("Why you frontin'? Why you frontin'? Why you frontin'? You ain't a player! You ain't a player! Beotch! I smack you! Why you frontin'? Beotch! I smack you! Beotch!...ect.). It all stems from their neccesity to be heard over their numerous siblings, surely, and the laziness from their endless free-ride in society, but WHY in the FUCK would you want to taint the white race with such negative traits???

The best weapon I can think of is the mind. They simply have anything but the mind we'd be looking for, and to incorperate it would dilute the norm. They have also neither the will or the might. [generally speaking, of course. ;) ]

Q: How do you get a black soldier to drop his weapon?
A: Throw him a basketball.

[festergrump]

JC, Jeff Waynes version rocks! I find it so wonderfully creepy to listen to (also the WotW game is a favorite of mine, very similar to Command and Conquer, Red Alert II).

Metablolism has a major effect on how much cold or heat you can stand (among other things). While I was in my prime I could walk the streets of Chicago without more than a flannel shirt in the dead of winter with no discomfort. Now my metabolic rate is slowing down and I find my resistance to chill is very much lower. Just you wait, Silentnite and XYZ. (muhahaha!) When age grabs you by the nuts it never lets go, my friends! (luckily, you can always work out and turn that added weight from a slower metabolism into muscle. You just need to work a little harder at it when you get older). :)

Sort of BOT, niggers don't work. WHY in the hell would anyone want to breed their genetic qualities into an ultimate race? Your new "ULTIMATE" race would always seek the path of least resistance and complain more than fight.

Not only that, their attention spans are so low and their thought process so much slower than their motor skills will allow they often repeat the same motion or phrase of speech over and over that it becomes so easy to determine in advance. Watch a couple of them argue if you don't believe me. Such repetition and such little thought. WHY? Laziness... ("Why you frontin'? Why you frontin'? Why you frontin'? You ain't a player! You ain't a player! Beotch! I smack you! Why you frontin'? Beotch! I smack you! Beotch!...ect.). It all stems from their neccesity to be heard over their numerous siblings, surely, and the laziness from their endless free-ride in society, but WHY in the FUCK would you want to taint the white race with such negative traits???

The best weapon I can think of is the mind. They simply have anything but the mind we'd be looking for, and to incorperate it would dilute the norm. They have also neither the will or the might. [generally speaking, of course. ;) ]

Q: How do you get a black soldier to drop his weapon?
A: Throw him a basketball.

[xyz]

Silentnite, I used to be exactly as you described, with the body fat level of a starving elbonian :p (3 or 4% IIRC). I also grew very quickly and very early, as in 5'11" by the time I was 14, yet only weighing around 45-50Kg. At that age I started weight training, and am now 17, 6'2", 70Kg, and have a more normal body fat level of 10%.

festergrump is right about needing a slower metabolism to weight train properly though, a fast metabolism means that you don't put on weight easily at all, and you really have to work hard to gain any appreciable amount of muscle mass.

The plus side is that you usually end up stronger for your bodyweight, i.e. lifting your own bodyweight is easier simply because there is less of it in total. So you find climbing, dips, pushups, pullups, e.t.c. to be easier than most people find them. Being able to climb like a monkey is quite a useful skill to have.

[xyz]

Silentnite, I used to be exactly as you described, with the body fat level of a starving elbonian :p (3 or 4% IIRC). I also grew very quickly and very early, as in 5'11" by the time I was 14, yet only weighing around 45-50Kg. At that age I started weight training, and am now 17, 6'2", 70Kg, and have a more normal body fat level of 10%.

festergrump is right about needing a slower metabolism to weight train properly though, a fast metabolism means that you don't put on weight easily at all, and you really have to work hard to gain any appreciable amount of muscle mass.

The plus side is that you usually end up stronger for your bodyweight, i.e. lifting your own bodyweight is easier simply because there is less of it in total. So you find climbing, dips, pushups, pullups, e.t.c. to be easier than most people find them. Being able to climb like a monkey is quite a useful skill to have.

[xyz]

Silentnite, I used to be exactly as you described, with the body fat level of a starving elbonian :p (3 or 4% IIRC). I also grew very quickly and very early, as in 5'11" by the time I was 14, yet only weighing around 45-50Kg. At that age I started weight training, and am now 17, 6'2", 70Kg, and have a more normal body fat level of 10%.

festergrump is right about needing a slower metabolism to weight train properly though, a fast metabolism means that you don't put on weight easily at all, and you really have to work hard to gain any appreciable amount of muscle mass.

The plus side is that you usually end up stronger for your bodyweight, i.e. lifting your own bodyweight is easier simply because there is less of it in total. So you find climbing, dips, pushups, pullups, e.t.c. to be easier than most people find them. Being able to climb like a monkey is quite a useful skill to have.

[nbk2000]

Like I said, if incorporating the genes of animals into the genome produces a superior product (soldier), then it would be done, as the ends justify the meaans.

If you could get cheeta speed in a human frame, why not do it? Or ape strength? Just so happens that niggers are the fastest runners. Their muscle-fiber twitch superiority would be incorporated into the soldiers genome.

I think that, if you can do this project, than you could pick out only the useable parts and leave the 'BeYotch!' genes out. ;)

[nbk2000]

Like I said, if incorporating the genes of animals into the genome produces a superior product (soldier), then it would be done, as the ends justify the meaans.

If you could get cheeta speed in a human frame, why not do it? Or ape strength? Just so happens that niggers are the fastest runners. Their muscle-fiber twitch superiority would be incorporated into the soldiers genome.

I think that, if you can do this project, than you could pick out only the useable parts and leave the 'BeYotch!' genes out. ;)

[nbk2000]

Like I said, if incorporating the genes of animals into the genome produces a superior product (soldier), then it would be done, as the ends justify the meaans.

If you could get cheeta speed in a human frame, why not do it? Or ape strength? Just so happens that niggers are the fastest runners. Their muscle-fiber twitch superiority would be incorporated into the soldiers genome.

I think that, if you can do this project, than you could pick out only the useable parts and leave the 'BeYotch!' genes out. ;)

[Jacks Complete]

How is it I have to come to this forum for decent, intelligent discussion?

Anyway, I love it! Not sure if the "BeYotch!" genes have been isolated yet, is the only issue. Taking a trait directly is currently pure sci-fi - probably 20 years away. However, you could run the experiments quite rapidly with a way to actually clone.

Just mix the DNA from the hosts in the usual way - sexually - then run 250 different clones - except now they are more like testtube babies, each a little different, but from great stock - through screening, to ensure there are no nasties in there. Let the 200 that are ok develop. Repeat. You can repeat at age 5 probably, and age 10 certainly, age 15 would be the absolute definate answer. Of course, if you can speed development up, great!

By taking the best of the best, and interbreeding them with selection at every stage, and enough screening to avoid weird issues like birth defects, adding in different genetic pools and the like, we could put the human race on the same sort of track as horses, dogs, and pretty much everything you could ever want that has been domesticated.

Selection for all positive traits would be tricky, but I would avoid having a range of people "types" like workers and thinkers.

The ideal would be bright, intelligent-capable, strong-capable people, free from massive defects like heart disease or stroke or cancer. With a little working out they would bulk up fast, when turning to the books, they would rapidly learn the subject. You could even make sure they were pretty as well.

I wouldn't want to go further than this, though. Otherwise you wind up with the issues of sub-human, clones, etc. "rights" when they start to see themselves, and be seen by others, as something different. Changing traits to make people easier to manage would be good for an army, but bad for a society.

Making all the women able to orgasm at a touch might be fun, but if they all have hang-ups, it is useless. Therefore, the 'aftercare' has to be good, too. Teaching and learning would have to instill certain things, many of which are missing from many children's lives - how to think freely, how to lead, values, morals, etc.

Basically, we need to start a country, or get to another planet. This stuff just isn't going to work on Earth. It's just too small.

[Jacks Complete]

How is it I have to come to this forum for decent, intelligent discussion?

Anyway, I love it! Not sure if the "BeYotch!" genes have been isolated yet, is the only issue. Taking a trait directly is currently pure sci-fi - probably 20 years away. However, you could run the experiments quite rapidly with a way to actually clone.

Just mix the DNA from the hosts in the usual way - sexually - then run 250 different clones - except now they are more like testtube babies, each a little different, but from great stock - through screening, to ensure there are no nasties in there. Let the 200 that are ok develop. Repeat. You can repeat at age 5 probably, and age 10 certainly, age 15 would be the absolute definate answer. Of course, if you can speed development up, great!

By taking the best of the best, and interbreeding them with selection at every stage, and enough screening to avoid weird issues like birth defects, adding in different genetic pools and the like, we could put the human race on the same sort of track as horses, dogs, and pretty much everything you could ever want that has been domesticated.

Selection for all positive traits would be tricky, but I would avoid having a range of people "types" like workers and thinkers.

The ideal would be bright, intelligent-capable, strong-capable people, free from massive defects like heart disease or stroke or cancer. With a little working out they would bulk up fast, when turning to the books, they would rapidly learn the subject. You could even make sure they were pretty as well.

I wouldn't want to go further than this, though. Otherwise you wind up with the issues of sub-human, clones, etc. "rights" when they start to see themselves, and be seen by others, as something different. Changing traits to make people easier to manage would be good for an army, but bad for a society.

Making all the women able to orgasm at a touch might be fun, but if they all have hang-ups, it is useless. Therefore, the 'aftercare' has to be good, too. Teaching and learning would have to instill certain things, many of which are missing from many children's lives - how to think freely, how to lead, values, morals, etc.

Basically, we need to start a country, or get to another planet. This stuff just isn't going to work on Earth. It's just too small.

[Jacks Complete]

How is it I have to come to this forum for decent, intelligent discussion?

Anyway, I love it! Not sure if the "BeYotch!" genes have been isolated yet, is the only issue. Taking a trait directly is currently pure sci-fi - probably 20 years away. However, you could run the experiments quite rapidly with a way to actually clone.

Just mix the DNA from the hosts in the usual way - sexually - then run 250 different clones - except now they are more like testtube babies, each a little different, but from great stock - through screening, to ensure there are no nasties in there. Let the 200 that are ok develop. Repeat. You can repeat at age 5 probably, and age 10 certainly, age 15 would be the absolute definate answer. Of course, if you can speed development up, great!

By taking the best of the best, and interbreeding them with selection at every stage, and enough screening to avoid weird issues like birth defects, adding in different genetic pools and the like, we could put the human race on the same sort of track as horses, dogs, and pretty much everything you could ever want that has been domesticated.

Selection for all positive traits would be tricky, but I would avoid having a range of people "types" like workers and thinkers.

The ideal would be bright, intelligent-capable, strong-capable people, free from massive defects like heart disease or stroke or cancer. With a little working out they would bulk up fast, when turning to the books, they would rapidly learn the subject. You could even make sure they were pretty as well.

I wouldn't want to go further than this, though. Otherwise you wind up with the issues of sub-human, clones, etc. "rights" when they start to see themselves, and be seen by others, as something different. Changing traits to make people easier to manage would be good for an army, but bad for a society.

Making all the women able to orgasm at a touch might be fun, but if they all have hang-ups, it is useless. Therefore, the 'aftercare' has to be good, too. Teaching and learning would have to instill certain things, many of which are missing from many children's lives - how to think freely, how to lead, values, morals, etc.

Basically, we need to start a country, or get to another planet. This stuff just isn't going to work on Earth. It's just too small.

[Silentnite]

I think JC hit on an important point. I personally believe that it is not necessarily in your genes that shows how you grow up and act, I think its in your upbringing. Sure the genes guide, but alot of it is your enviroment too.

So maybe the "Beyotch" isn't part of a gene, and with good brainwashing(you are building a clone army are you not?) it shouldn't be a problem.

[Silentnite]

I think JC hit on an important point. I personally believe that it is not necessarily in your genes that shows how you grow up and act, I think its in your upbringing. Sure the genes guide, but alot of it is your enviroment too.

So maybe the "Beyotch" isn't part of a gene, and with good brainwashing(you are building a clone army are you not?) it shouldn't be a problem.

[Silentnite]

I think JC hit on an important point. I personally believe that it is not necessarily in your genes that shows how you grow up and act, I think its in your upbringing. Sure the genes guide, but alot of it is your enviroment too.

So maybe the "Beyotch" isn't part of a gene, and with good brainwashing(you are building a clone army are you not?) it shouldn't be a problem.

[FUTI]

About sexless clone, it crossed my mind that I heard somewhere that extremely high levels of adrenalin and/or testosteron can cause virtual sterility in male humans. If that's true then someone who make a clone with this caracteristics will solve problem of clones possible "wild" reproduction and make a very agresive, jumpy soldier I guess. Narrow gene pool would still be a threat I think.

[xyz]

A very aggressive, jumpy soldier who would bleed to death much more easily than a regular one when shot or otherwise wounded. Adrenaline constricts small blood vessels and dilates major blood vessels, hence why adrenaline is often given to people having surgery on the skin as it greatly reduces bleeding in this case. Factor in a deeper wound though and adrenaline would result in greatly increased bleeding instead.

[bonusiletisim]

I think that it is possible to have aryan children, if an aryan man fucks directly a cow. There's no need for such complicated science :D

[FUTI]

what xyz wrote is true...there will be always side-effects. Other solution would be soldier with damaged receptor for testosteron, it prevents developing of penis and secondary male caracteristics. What other manifestation of this (already recorded and existing - so no actual need to make it de novo) illness is beyond my imagination.
bonusiletisim...you post makes me laugh when I read it. Although I uderstand your need to express your oppinion about "aryan race" and its concept, some of forum members would take it against you, but more important some of the guys that agree with you might also get offended by this remark...since they took part in the discussion on this topic.

[Jacks Complete]

Well put FUTI. NBK might not be amused. But he probably will be!

bonusiletisim, it's more about the idea of the technology than it's actual use. You don't think any of us would break the law and set off bombs, etc. do you? Why would anyone build a clone army to take over the world? Oh, wait... ;-)

[Jome skanish]

If one needs an assload of soldiers, but does not have an insane ammount of nurses and the like, why not "speed-grow" them to adulthood and then use some sort of bionic chip to control their every action? No need for training, no need for other means of "obedience control", they'd be just like biological robots with no will nor fear whatsoever.

Or, how about growing muscle fiber directly around a metal/ceramic skeletton, bone growth would otherwise be the main limiting factor in how fast the soldiers could be grown.

Bio-weapons can't hurt what they can't reach. If the soldier is intravenously fed, and breathes a purified and buffered oxygen-supply, then targeting him with bioweapons would be almost impossible. Enviro-suits would be quite cheap if ten millions were to be produced, same thing is likely for bionics.

[Jacks Complete]

The problem is, no-one knows how to "speed grow" people. Also, wouldn't they get older faster? and the money spent would probably be higher, due to having to take more care of waste, food, etc. before you got your "workforce" online.

I wouldn't bother trying to make a cyborg that wasn't based on the human (or dog or whatever) body. You might as well go for a robot then, designed for a task. Building a steel frame is going to be really hard. Better to grow the people then put them inside an exoskeleton, or operate on them and build kevlar weave into their heads as a helmet, and titanium bars into the forearms as defence/offence weapons. (Heck, go all out and swap hands for blades or something, but don't expect them not to stab themselves and have trouble handling projectile weapons.)

A select few could be pickled in shockgel and built into all-senses war machines like those found in WarHammer 40K, with direct links to the brain which they would grow into over the years. But that's not trivial. Not yet, anyway.

Also, note that 10,000,000 of anything is going to cost a hell of a lot. Yes, the unit cost might be low, but the actual pound notes required will be a big sum of money. Raising that in three years instead of 20 might be a(n even) bigger challenge.

[festergrump]

It seems to me this latter section of the thread should be split and renamed:

"Genesis of the Daleks (the trials and errors)"... :p :) Make Davros happy!

[sdjsdj]

I'm not saying that isn't true - there are genetic weaknesses that show up in one race over others.

What I am saying is that you couldn't develop and use one in time for it to save you from a giant clone army. After all, with modern NBC equipment, you can ensure that your guys don't contaminate each other too much, and this would slow the spread quite a lot. One tank would have it, whilst the others didn't, and you only lose one tank. Same with subs, or whatever.

Most minor infections like colds are very, very infectious, but we still manage not to get them all at the same time, just by simple things like washing hands and the fact we don't let people sneeze on us.

Finally, the reason the Amerindians or New worlders, or whatever, got measles and flu and died is because they had never been exposed to anything like those diseases before, so they had absolutely no immunity to them.

The army has everyone wash their own stuff in the mess with a warm shared bucket of soapy water, and then a simple rinse under cold water. This, plus the proximity of soldiers in the mess and the barracks, ensures that anything that makes anyone ill goes round everyone, and so keeps the immune system primed. (It also reduces cleaning costs!)

As long as the clones were "primed" with regular colds and the like, they would be as non-suceptible as anyone else, or even less so, as you could have tweaked the immune system to run hot (do you care if they get to 65 and are burned out? That used to be the point of life! Short retirements and long hard lives of work...)

Also, you would have every last one of them immunised with the different vaccines, like polio, GM, dengue & yellow fever, etc., as they would be more use as soldiers that way - which is exactly what most countries do before sending troops abroad.

Anyway, I still don't think the clone army is the way to go - though it might slow down prats who want to use ID cards with genetic sequences on them!

Fantastic idea, but some diseases - for example, the more virulent Ebola strains - this approach would be counterproductive; in the handful of hours between the biological attack and symptoms become obvious, every cloned soldier in the camp could be infected, and when dealing with a disease with more or less 90% lethality this is Bad News.

[Jacks Complete]

sdjsdj, please don't quote the entire message in replies.

As regards Ebola, it would wipe out better than 90% of ANY human army that hadn't been specifically altered (either by gene and DNA changes, or immune system tweaks such as a vaccine), so I don't really see a problem.

As far as the 90% hit rate goes, double, triple or more infection would also be an idea. Why gamble that 10% of a 100,000 army are still able to fight? Hit them with SARS, Ebola and West Nile virus, common cold, whatever. All will cause conflicting syptoms, and delay things being worked out, as well as killing those who would otherwise have scraped through and survived.

Something that has syptoms develop in an hour would be too fast for most things, though. Infect a washing or food station with something that takes three days for a syptom, and everyone will have been through 3 times each day for 3 days. Reduce that to an hour, and anyone out training is going to not eat in when half the barracks are dying off, seriously reducing the effect.