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Jacks Complete
March 4th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Spotted this in the Mail, and on line:

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This from the Wired-Gov web site at http://www.wired-gov.org/WGArticle.aspx?WCI=htmArticleView&WCU=ARTCL%5FPKEY%3D30212

Date: March 02, 2005
Time: 14:15
MOD POLICE TAKES DELIVERY OF 21ST CENTURY WEAPON

MOD Police has become the first force in the country to take delivery of a new generation of firearm.

It has ordered the Heckler & Koch MP7 carbine following rigorous tests to uncover the most suitable weapon for its armed guarding duties in the 21st century.

No other organisation in the United Kingdom is currently using the MP7 which was made to fulfil a NATO demand for a light small accurate weapon which can penetrate sophisticated body armour.

The firearm will be known within the MOD Police (MDP) as the Utility Weapon and will replace the majority of the three different weapons currently used by officers. These are the Browning pistol, the SA80 assault rifle and the Heckler and Koch MP5.

It will be used by officers who protect a variety of MOD establishments across the United Kingdom against armed attack.

The MDP is the only force to have all of its 3,440 officers trained in the use of firearms, and at any one time some 70 per cent of them are carrying a weapon whilst on duty.

Assistant Chief Constable John Bligh, Director of Operational Support for the MDP, said: "Our officers work at 100 different MOD sites across the United Kingdom in a wide range of roles, so it makes sense for us to have a very adaptable weapon.

"The MP7 was the only firearm we tested which could fulfil all of our criteria and be used successfully within a wide variety of our policing operations.

"Among its many advantages are that it is more accurate than a pistol and has a low recoil action. Its power ratio also means that, whilst it can penetrate body armour, it will not pass right through a target.

"There are also very significant benefits to be made in only having to train our people in one firearm system rather than three. As well as the obvious cost benefit this will also boost officer safety due to their increased familiarity with the weapon."

He said the MDP had worked closely with the Defence Procurement Agency and Heckler and Koch during the development and testing of the weapon for its suitability.

"We asked for a number of modifications to increase its suitability for the roles in which we use it," he said. "Our officers patrol both on land and at sea, and can be called upon to work in a variety of environments, such as within naval warships."

Among the changes made to the MP7 were the removal of its fully automatic and semi-automatic firing modes so that it will only fire a single shot at a time. This ensures that the gun meets legislation requirements on the proportionality of a police response if the weapon is fired.

MDP officers are currently undergoing training in the use of the new weapon and it will be rolled out across the country later in the year. The total cost of the project, including ammunition for three years, is around 3 million.

However the weapon is also likely to result in a 42 per cent reduction in the cost of on-going firearms training for officers, a saving of more than 300,000 a year.

More than 1,500 MP7s have been ordered by the MDP although small numbers of the force's current weapons will be retained for very specialist operations.

Although the MDP is the first force in the country to take delivery of the MP7 many other constabularies are following developments and have expressed an interest in it.

MP7 Facts

Designed to meet NATO demands for a new personal defence weapon which has the medium range capabilities of an assault rifle and pistol-like close combat dimensions.

A new 4.6mm calibre of bullet has been specially created for the weapon and it has less than half the recoil of a 9mm gun.

Features include: a retractable stock, ambidextrous cocking and decocking, mountings for various sights, and a folding foregrip for extra control.

Statistics

Magazine capacity: 20 or 40 bullets
Modes of fire: single shot only (MDP specification)
Width: 42mm
Height: 172mm
Weight: 1.5kg
Barrel length: 180mm
Overall length: 340mm or 540mm with stock extended

END

Notes for Editors

The Ministry of Defence Police (MDP) is a civilian Police force, operating across the MOD estate.

Press Office
Room 15 Building 1070 MDPGA HQ Wethersfield
Braintree Essex CM7 4AZ


Or this one also from Wired-gov at http://www.wired-gov.org/WGArticle.aspx?WCI=htmArticleView&WCU=ARTCL%5FPKEY%3D30206



Date: March 02, 2005
Time: 12:15
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE POLICE TO GET NEW SPECIALISED FIREARM

The Ministry of Defence has procured a new weapon for the Ministry of Defence Police force, making them better equipped than ever for the important role they play.

A 3.4 million contract will see more than 1,500 Heckler & Koch MP7 firearms delivered to MoD Police, who provide armed security for military installations across the country, including the guarding of Britain's nuclear deterrent.

Ministry of Defence Police Officers are currently equipped with the 9mm Browning Pistol and the military-issue SA80. The SA80, a battle-proven military assault rifle, is not ideally suited for use by MoD police who are deployed in defence environments in the UK.

The pistol, which has been in service since 1979, becomes less accurate at long range and cannot defeat today's latest body armour.

Defence Minister Ivor Caplin MP said: " It is essential that these officers, who police everything from residential camps to our sensitive research and development centres, are equipped with the most suitable firearm for their jobs.

"The team at the Defence Procurement Agency carried out an exhaustive series of tests before this weapon was selected, and the MP7 proved to be the very best available.

"What's more, an innovative approach to this procurement, which sees the UK Division of Heckler & Koch look after weapon support and logistics, is estimated to save around £250,000 a year until 2008 - another example of 'smart' procurement.

"Indeed, this project has been so successful that other UK Police Constabularies have been paying close attention to our results, with a view to possibly using them to inform their own future firearm procurement decisions."

Tests proved that the new firearm can penetrate body armour, yet the round will not 'overpenetrate' causing a danger to bystanders. It is also light, easily maintained and simple to use and, after training, will be delivered to Ministry of Defence Police Officers across the country, replacing both the Browning pistol and the SA80.

ENDS

Notes to Editors

1 The project is scheduled to achieve its In Service Date (ISD) in April - two months ahead of the estimated timing.

2 The MP7 is manufactured by Heckler and Koch of Germany. The weapon specific 4.6mm ammunition will be provided by UK manufacturer Royal Ordnance Radway Green.

3 The 'smart' nature of this project will see weapons remain under manufacturer warranty for ten years - a first within small arms procurement. The exact history of each weapon will be tracked and monitored. The expected service life is 15 years.

4 More than 1,500 systems are being procured. Final delivery from the manufacturer will be made in June 2005.

5 The Ministry of Defence Police (MDP) is the MOD's own dedicated civil Police Force of around 3,800 officers, all of them having full Constabulary powers. They provide armed security, uniformed policing and investigation of serious crime at MOD establishments and units throughout the United Kingdom. As a condition of service every officer is weapons-trained and at any one time 70 per cent of MDP officers on duty carry arms, either pistols or rifles. These are deployed at around 100 MOD sites where an armed security capability is required.

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So the MoD Police have adopted the 4.6mm HK MP7 to replace the Browning 9mm pistol, 9mm HK MP5 and 5.56mm SA80/L85 rifle.

An innovative choice if nothing else. Not sure what they need AP bullets for, generally, but there you go. I handled one of these once, back in the day.

I'm pretty sure someone high up in HK/BAe swung this one with the MOD Plod, since not one order has ever been placed for this weapon. There is no civilian market, it is utterly untested outside the range (to my knowledge) but I wouldn't say no to one!

The Mail mentions the steel AP rounds, btw, as well as talking about how every police force in the UK is going to be kitted out with these instead of the three weapons they currently carry, the 9mm MP5, the SA80 or G3 in 5.56, and the 9mm Browning.

So they will have body armour and a team for back-up, plus a carbine that will shoot through body armour, whilst you will have a pocket knife and navel lint... :mad:

malzraa
March 5th, 2005, 01:39 AM
Heh, that isthe SMG from Half-Life 2. If only it actually came with a grenade launcher...

Silentnite
March 5th, 2005, 02:44 AM
I tried both of those links and neither one showed a picture for me. So after a little searching I found this (http://defensereview.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=9). It has pictures and apparently some vids of them shooting it. Neat looking though. I want one. :p

malzraa
March 7th, 2005, 02:13 PM
http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm HKPRO's excellent article on the MP7.

malzraa
March 7th, 2005, 02:13 PM
http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm HKPRO's excellent article on the MP7.

malzraa
March 7th, 2005, 02:13 PM
http://www.hkpro.com/pdw.htm HKPRO's excellent article on the MP7.

Third_Rail
March 8th, 2005, 11:34 AM
This is strange.. why are they mechanically limited to semi-auto?

Third_Rail
March 8th, 2005, 11:34 AM
This is strange.. why are they mechanically limited to semi-auto?

Third_Rail
March 8th, 2005, 11:34 AM
This is strange.. why are they mechanically limited to semi-auto?

Jacks Complete
March 8th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Because even the UK government realise that having cops running round on full-auto would be a disaster!

The testing range was using full-auto, and the standard model is full and semi (oddly, no burst) fire capable.

Jacks Complete
March 8th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Because even the UK government realise that having cops running round on full-auto would be a disaster!

The testing range was using full-auto, and the standard model is full and semi (oddly, no burst) fire capable.

Jacks Complete
March 8th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Because even the UK government realise that having cops running round on full-auto would be a disaster!

The testing range was using full-auto, and the standard model is full and semi (oddly, no burst) fire capable.

Third_Rail
March 8th, 2005, 04:28 PM
I don't really see how having a fully automatic firearm would be a problem to anyone with training in their use. Perhaps it's a money-saving idea, so as to not have to train them in the use of trigger control for 2-3 round bursts?

Third_Rail
March 8th, 2005, 04:28 PM
I don't really see how having a fully automatic firearm would be a problem to anyone with training in their use. Perhaps it's a money-saving idea, so as to not have to train them in the use of trigger control for 2-3 round bursts?

Third_Rail
March 8th, 2005, 04:28 PM
I don't really see how having a fully automatic firearm would be a problem to anyone with training in their use. Perhaps it's a money-saving idea, so as to not have to train them in the use of trigger control for 2-3 round bursts?

Jacks Complete
March 8th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Politically, it would destroy the divide between the State actors (soldiers) and the Public (police).

Of course, everyone knows the idea of policing by consent now only exists so the police have an easier time of it when things are going their way - they just crack heads when things aren't going their way, and get new laws passed if they don't like the lack of "consent" they get. http://www.techhelpers.net/e4u/aliens/borg_assimilation_faces.gif

Jacks Complete
March 8th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Politically, it would destroy the divide between the State actors (soldiers) and the Public (police).

Of course, everyone knows the idea of policing by consent now only exists so the police have an easier time of it when things are going their way - they just crack heads when things aren't going their way, and get new laws passed if they don't like the lack of "consent" they get. http://www.techhelpers.net/e4u/aliens/borg_assimilation_faces.gif

Jacks Complete
March 8th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Politically, it would destroy the divide between the State actors (soldiers) and the Public (police).

Of course, everyone knows the idea of policing by consent now only exists so the police have an easier time of it when things are going their way - they just crack heads when things aren't going their way, and get new laws passed if they don't like the lack of "consent" they get. http://www.techhelpers.net/e4u/aliens/borg_assimilation_faces.gif

shadow2501
March 9th, 2005, 07:30 AM
well.....i don't get the point using a machine pistol with semi and full auto mode removed since the new H&K UCP pistol that use the very same 4.6mm ammo just came out,the MP7 have folding stock and may be more accurate but as a one by one shot weapon it's just a big weird shaped pistol maybe they'll juste replace MP5 by MP7 and Browning by UCP later who knows, removing full auto from this cute little MP7 is a sin anyway :(

shadow2501
March 9th, 2005, 07:30 AM
well.....i don't get the point using a machine pistol with semi and full auto mode removed since the new H&K UCP pistol that use the very same 4.6mm ammo just came out,the MP7 have folding stock and may be more accurate but as a one by one shot weapon it's just a big weird shaped pistol maybe they'll juste replace MP5 by MP7 and Browning by UCP later who knows, removing full auto from this cute little MP7 is a sin anyway :(

shadow2501
March 9th, 2005, 07:30 AM
well.....i don't get the point using a machine pistol with semi and full auto mode removed since the new H&K UCP pistol that use the very same 4.6mm ammo just came out,the MP7 have folding stock and may be more accurate but as a one by one shot weapon it's just a big weird shaped pistol maybe they'll juste replace MP5 by MP7 and Browning by UCP later who knows, removing full auto from this cute little MP7 is a sin anyway :(

Flake2m
March 9th, 2005, 11:29 AM
Training wise it shouldn't really make a difference.
A well trained marksmen could empty a 20 round clip in a few seconds, even with single shot semi auto.
Also the only advantage a fully automatic weapon has over a single shot, is that it can fire off more bullets in less time. Semi auto also allows for greater control over the weapon.

Flake2m
March 9th, 2005, 11:29 AM
Training wise it shouldn't really make a difference.
A well trained marksmen could empty a 20 round clip in a few seconds, even with single shot semi auto.
Also the only advantage a fully automatic weapon has over a single shot, is that it can fire off more bullets in less time. Semi auto also allows for greater control over the weapon.

Flake2m
March 9th, 2005, 11:29 AM
Training wise it shouldn't really make a difference.
A well trained marksmen could empty a 20 round clip in a few seconds, even with single shot semi auto.
Also the only advantage a fully automatic weapon has over a single shot, is that it can fire off more bullets in less time. Semi auto also allows for greater control over the weapon.

nbk2000
March 11th, 2005, 06:27 PM
How many cops are going to get killed for their guns? :)

nbk2000
March 11th, 2005, 06:27 PM
How many cops are going to get killed for their guns? :)

nbk2000
March 11th, 2005, 06:27 PM
How many cops are going to get killed for their guns? :)

Jacks Complete
March 11th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Not enough...





words, obviously.

Jacks Complete
March 11th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Not enough...





words, obviously.

Jacks Complete
March 11th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Not enough...





words, obviously.