Hostage situations

[akinrog]

I know the senior members scorn upon the ideas obtained from movies and I am also aware that majority of the hostage situations are terminated with a SWAT operation and killing of the terrorists and a great majority of the hostages. I mean no matter what the cost the security forces intervene the situation with a generally violent operation. The SWAT shall perform operation on the terrorists on any price.

And as far as I search this type of topic is not discussed here too much. Anyway it's up to mods to allow this thread or just delete it.

However, a few months ago I watched a movie called swordfish. In this movie, the terrorists were trying to get a money by means of a banking terminal after breaking through the bank and attaching explosive devices to the hostages which have proximity system in order to eliminate possibility to rescue hostages. What do you think about it? Regards

[akinrog]

I know the senior members scorn upon the ideas obtained from movies and I am also aware that majority of the hostage situations are terminated with a SWAT operation and killing of the terrorists and a great majority of the hostages. I mean no matter what the cost the security forces intervene the situation with a generally violent operation. The SWAT shall perform operation on the terrorists on any price.

And as far as I search this type of topic is not discussed here too much. Anyway it's up to mods to allow this thread or just delete it.

However, a few months ago I watched a movie called swordfish. In this movie, the terrorists were trying to get a money by means of a banking terminal after breaking through the bank and attaching explosive devices to the hostages which have proximity system in order to eliminate possibility to rescue hostages. What do you think about it? Regards

[akinrog]

I know the senior members scorn upon the ideas obtained from movies and I am also aware that majority of the hostage situations are terminated with a SWAT operation and killing of the terrorists and a great majority of the hostages. I mean no matter what the cost the security forces intervene the situation with a generally violent operation. The SWAT shall perform operation on the terrorists on any price.

And as far as I search this type of topic is not discussed here too much. Anyway it's up to mods to allow this thread or just delete it.

However, a few months ago I watched a movie called swordfish. In this movie, the terrorists were trying to get a money by means of a banking terminal after breaking through the bank and attaching explosive devices to the hostages which have proximity system in order to eliminate possibility to rescue hostages. What do you think about it? Regards

[Third_Rail]

I think that in the real world money is more important than people to those in power. The hostages wouldn't matter - killing those who would take your money would be #1.

[Third_Rail]

I think that in the real world money is more important than people to those in power. The hostages wouldn't matter - killing those who would take your money would be #1.

[Third_Rail]

I think that in the real world money is more important than people to those in power. The hostages wouldn't matter - killing those who would take your money would be #1.

[tomu]

Proximity fuze eh? My guess is in reality they would set it off accidentially and blow off the hostages and themselfes as well.

To build a reliable high quality fuze is not trivial. Look at military type fuzes, the military takes great pains in constructing and building fuzes that will only go off when they should go off and not due to wrong and hard handling or some other error.

A reliable fuze is not some Radio Shack electronics kit and an AP cap.

A movie, is a movie, is a movie.

[tomu]

Proximity fuze eh? My guess is in reality they would set it off accidentially and blow off the hostages and themselfes as well.

To build a reliable high quality fuze is not trivial. Look at military type fuzes, the military takes great pains in constructing and building fuzes that will only go off when they should go off and not due to wrong and hard handling or some other error.

A reliable fuze is not some Radio Shack electronics kit and an AP cap.

A movie, is a movie, is a movie.

[tomu]

Proximity fuze eh? My guess is in reality they would set it off accidentially and blow off the hostages and themselfes as well.

To build a reliable high quality fuze is not trivial. Look at military type fuzes, the military takes great pains in constructing and building fuzes that will only go off when they should go off and not due to wrong and hard handling or some other error.

A reliable fuze is not some Radio Shack electronics kit and an AP cap.

A movie, is a movie, is a movie.

[Skean Dhu]

I think NBK made mention of this tactic in a post of his shortly after this movie had been released to video/DVD.

A similar device with the same outcome could most certainly be made by use of RFID chip sets, the passive ones at present time only have a range of ~20ft, so all you would have to do is rig a relay to complete the circuit from a powersupply to a blasting cap when the RFID stopped recieving power from the monitering device.

[Skean Dhu]

I think NBK made mention of this tactic in a post of his shortly after this movie had been released to video/DVD.

A similar device with the same outcome could most certainly be made by use of RFID chip sets, the passive ones at present time only have a range of ~20ft, so all you would have to do is rig a relay to complete the circuit from a powersupply to a blasting cap when the RFID stopped recieving power from the monitering device.

[Skean Dhu]

I think NBK made mention of this tactic in a post of his shortly after this movie had been released to video/DVD.

A similar device with the same outcome could most certainly be made by use of RFID chip sets, the passive ones at present time only have a range of ~20ft, so all you would have to do is rig a relay to complete the circuit from a powersupply to a blasting cap when the RFID stopped recieving power from the monitering device.

[nbk2000]

Curious timing...

yes, this has been discussed before as the 'Hostage Bomb Collar' and, yes, movies are movies.

But, we also know that such things are real and have been used here in the US for bank robbery too. :)

[nbk2000]

Curious timing...

yes, this has been discussed before as the 'Hostage Bomb Collar' and, yes, movies are movies.

But, we also know that such things are real and have been used here in the US for bank robbery too. :)

[nbk2000]

Curious timing...

yes, this has been discussed before as the 'Hostage Bomb Collar' and, yes, movies are movies.

But, we also know that such things are real and have been used here in the US for bank robbery too. :)

[Jacks Complete]

Why curious timing?

Using an RFID tag is a neat idea. I just wouldn't trust the hostages not to take you with them, either on purpose or by accident. One flips and runs, and you get hit by the blast.

It would be more intelligent to use a motor than a bomb. Take one of the steel pipe ties you get, used for holding pipes onto car engines, the type that is tightened up with a screwdriver, and rig it to a motor. Enough torque to cut a head off, enough to get attention if needed, impossible to cut through even with a knife. But reversible on command!

Press a button and pull it in an inch, and the loud mouth won't be doing anything but clutching at his throat until you play nicely and back it off a little. You get shot, the motors on all the collars pull on full, and even the fastest SWAT team will watch as all the hostages die horribly, unable to save the crushed windpipes and oxygen starved brains, even if they bolt-cutter off the neck straps.

Which would then trigger the bombs...

[Jacks Complete]

Why curious timing?

Using an RFID tag is a neat idea. I just wouldn't trust the hostages not to take you with them, either on purpose or by accident. One flips and runs, and you get hit by the blast.

It would be more intelligent to use a motor than a bomb. Take one of the steel pipe ties you get, used for holding pipes onto car engines, the type that is tightened up with a screwdriver, and rig it to a motor. Enough torque to cut a head off, enough to get attention if needed, impossible to cut through even with a knife. But reversible on command!

Press a button and pull it in an inch, and the loud mouth won't be doing anything but clutching at his throat until you play nicely and back it off a little. You get shot, the motors on all the collars pull on full, and even the fastest SWAT team will watch as all the hostages die horribly, unable to save the crushed windpipes and oxygen starved brains, even if they bolt-cutter off the neck straps.

Which would then trigger the bombs...

[Jacks Complete]

Why curious timing?

Using an RFID tag is a neat idea. I just wouldn't trust the hostages not to take you with them, either on purpose or by accident. One flips and runs, and you get hit by the blast.

It would be more intelligent to use a motor than a bomb. Take one of the steel pipe ties you get, used for holding pipes onto car engines, the type that is tightened up with a screwdriver, and rig it to a motor. Enough torque to cut a head off, enough to get attention if needed, impossible to cut through even with a knife. But reversible on command!

Press a button and pull it in an inch, and the loud mouth won't be doing anything but clutching at his throat until you play nicely and back it off a little. You get shot, the motors on all the collars pull on full, and even the fastest SWAT team will watch as all the hostages die horribly, unable to save the crushed windpipes and oxygen starved brains, even if they bolt-cutter off the neck straps.

Which would then trigger the bombs...

[akinrog]

But, we also know that such things are real and have been used here in the US for bank robbery too. :)

I wasn't aware that it was used by someone else previously. :eek:

I believe if you keep the charge smaller (e.g. to decapitate or behead), then it might not be so fatal to the hostage taker. And if you add some electronic capability which sends to encrypted signals to the explosive device about your vital signs such as heart beat rate, it might be an insurance to avoid getting shot by the pigs. :D

[akinrog]

But, we also know that such things are real and have been used here in the US for bank robbery too. :)

I wasn't aware that it was used by someone else previously. :eek:

I believe if you keep the charge smaller (e.g. to decapitate or behead), then it might not be so fatal to the hostage taker. And if you add some electronic capability which sends to encrypted signals to the explosive device about your vital signs such as heart beat rate, it might be an insurance to avoid getting shot by the pigs. :D

[akinrog]

But, we also know that such things are real and have been used here in the US for bank robbery too. :)

I wasn't aware that it was used by someone else previously. :eek:

I believe if you keep the charge smaller (e.g. to decapitate or behead), then it might not be so fatal to the hostage taker. And if you add some electronic capability which sends to encrypted signals to the explosive device about your vital signs such as heart beat rate, it might be an insurance to avoid getting shot by the pigs. :D

[Jacks Complete]

Except they won't know, or won't believe, so you die anyway. Hell, they didn't really believe the guy with the collar on, till his head got popped off.

You don't want to blow someone's head off unless you have to, since then the gloves really come off, and you get the chair.

[Jacks Complete]

Except they won't know, or won't believe, so you die anyway. Hell, they didn't really believe the guy with the collar on, till his head got popped off.

You don't want to blow someone's head off unless you have to, since then the gloves really come off, and you get the chair.

[Jacks Complete]

Except they won't know, or won't believe, so you die anyway. Hell, they didn't really believe the guy with the collar on, till his head got popped off.

You don't want to blow someone's head off unless you have to, since then the gloves really come off, and you get the chair.

[malzraa]

Or rather than use complex radion systems that are subject to interference, why not just have the hostages "tied down" with a cable carrying a certain voltage/current that keeps a relay from firing and detonating the bomb strapped to them. That way you could just plug them into a wall socket, and if they came unplugged, they detonate,

[malzraa]

Or rather than use complex radion systems that are subject to interference, why not just have the hostages "tied down" with a cable carrying a certain voltage/current that keeps a relay from firing and detonating the bomb strapped to them. That way you could just plug them into a wall socket, and if they came unplugged, they detonate,

[malzraa]

Or rather than use complex radion systems that are subject to interference, why not just have the hostages "tied down" with a cable carrying a certain voltage/current that keeps a relay from firing and detonating the bomb strapped to them. That way you could just plug them into a wall socket, and if they came unplugged, they detonate,

[akinrog]

I am aware that a hostage taker is doomed to lose. Majority of the hostage crisis ends with killing of the terrorists / robbers etc and also a good deal of hostages. Tupac ameru (sp?) queriallas were shot dead after keeping the Japanese embassy for several months. :eek:

[akinrog]

I am aware that a hostage taker is doomed to lose. Majority of the hostage crisis ends with killing of the terrorists / robbers etc and also a good deal of hostages. Tupac ameru (sp?) queriallas were shot dead after keeping the Japanese embassy for several months. :eek:

[akinrog]

I am aware that a hostage taker is doomed to lose. Majority of the hostage crisis ends with killing of the terrorists / robbers etc and also a good deal of hostages. Tupac ameru (sp?) queriallas were shot dead after keeping the Japanese embassy for several months. :eek:

[2,4,6-TNP]

I own the movie, the most intelligent part of the whole movie is
the " misdirection" when John Travolta makes the ground pursuit an
aerial persuit, and when he fakes his death (Very smart), nobody
tries to find you when they think your dead!

If I were a hostage taker I'd kill all the hostages before the cops showed up!

If I were wanting money illegally I'd Counterfiet it (easily; it's called affordable technology), Daah, only the people who make
money know the difference. People who work at most retail stores are'nt
college educated you know! ;)

[2,4,6-TNP]

I own the movie, the most intelligent part of the whole movie is
the " misdirection" when John Travolta makes the ground pursuit an
aerial persuit, and when he fakes his death (Very smart), nobody
tries to find you when they think your dead!

If I were a hostage taker I'd kill all the hostages before the cops showed up!

If I were wanting money illegally I'd Counterfiet it (easily; it's called affordable technology), Daah, only the people who make
money know the difference. People who work at most retail stores are'nt
college educated you know! ;)

[2,4,6-TNP]

I own the movie, the most intelligent part of the whole movie is
the " misdirection" when John Travolta makes the ground pursuit an
aerial persuit, and when he fakes his death (Very smart), nobody
tries to find you when they think your dead!

If I were a hostage taker I'd kill all the hostages before the cops showed up!

If I were wanting money illegally I'd Counterfiet it (easily; it's called affordable technology), Daah, only the people who make
money know the difference. People who work at most retail stores are'nt
college educated you know! ;)

[2,4,6-TNP]

Anyway, I don't see the point in taking hostages anyway (just take the money and run, before the cops show up!) If it's not about the money just kill the people you want dead, why try and negotiate with your enemies? Stab them in the back! The General population will probably call you a coward anyway, mise well
kill your enemies why they are suprised as Sun Tzu says, why give your enemies a chance to live and retaliate at all. Do not go to war unless your enemies are already defeated, "So the important thing in a military operation is victory, not
persistance." Those who take hostages purposely prove they are not to any effect, for if they had half a brain I.E.( If they didnt't believe we evolved from some fucking monkeys, but feared the Lord), they could kill their enemies or take the money
without loss of life! I disapprove of people who take hostages for any reason!

P.S. Hostages are usually innocent people! Why even threaten to hurt them?
Will not the Lord Almighty see, and hound you forever? Just repent! Repent or perish! :mad:

[2,4,6-TNP]

Anyway, I don't see the point in taking hostages anyway (just take the money and run, before the cops show up!) If it's not about the money just kill the people you want dead, why try and negotiate with your enemies? Stab them in the back! The General population will probably call you a coward anyway, mise well
kill your enemies why they are suprised as Sun Tzu says, why give your enemies a chance to live and retaliate at all. Do not go to war unless your enemies are already defeated, "So the important thing in a military operation is victory, not
persistance." Those who take hostages purposely prove they are not to any effect, for if they had half a brain I.E.( If they didnt't believe we evolved from some fucking monkeys, but feared the Lord), they could kill their enemies or take the money
without loss of life! I disapprove of people who take hostages for any reason!

P.S. Hostages are usually innocent people! Why even threaten to hurt them?
Will not the Lord Almighty see, and hound you forever? Just repent! Repent or perish! :mad:

[2,4,6-TNP]

Anyway, I don't see the point in taking hostages anyway (just take the money and run, before the cops show up!) If it's not about the money just kill the people you want dead, why try and negotiate with your enemies? Stab them in the back! The General population will probably call you a coward anyway, mise well
kill your enemies why they are suprised as Sun Tzu says, why give your enemies a chance to live and retaliate at all. Do not go to war unless your enemies are already defeated, "So the important thing in a military operation is victory, not
persistance." Those who take hostages purposely prove they are not to any effect, for if they had half a brain I.E.( If they didnt't believe we evolved from some fucking monkeys, but feared the Lord), they could kill their enemies or take the money
without loss of life! I disapprove of people who take hostages for any reason!

P.S. Hostages are usually innocent people! Why even threaten to hurt them?
Will not the Lord Almighty see, and hound you forever? Just repent! Repent or perish! :mad:

[Jacks Complete]

Hostages are some (faulty) form of insurance. You weigh their lives against yours, in order to try to escape. However, the very act of taking a hostage puts you at threat of lethal force.

Better might be some prearranged escape route that only you can follow, which has active things to seriously stop even the most effective SWAT team.

After all, once you are down in the sewers, you might well be able to escape, as long as it is 20 minutes before anyone can follow you. Any less than five minutes and you could too easily get caught up with by some uber-fitness freak, if the escape route is tricky, you are dragging bags of cash or a hostage, and they might well be a marathon runner!

Something like a big steel door that you can drop shut, with a big ass lock. Something like at the end of SWAT? That was funny. The Claymore thing (in SWAT) was good, but the crims took far too long to set it up and nearly got caught.

The Claymore collars would certainly slow down any pursuit, since people would be running screaming and exploding all over the place. Some would be going blue, with my idea, and hence need immediate attention, rather than just being dead.

Using a mains lead seems like a good idea, until you realise that they often cut the power in hostage situations, and 30 yards of mains lead isn't going to help get over the road or to a getaway car!

Just thought, an even easier way would be a small resistance wire in the collar. Press a button, it heats up! Little damage, lots of pain for control...

[Jacks Complete]

Hostages are some (faulty) form of insurance. You weigh their lives against yours, in order to try to escape. However, the very act of taking a hostage puts you at threat of lethal force.

Better might be some prearranged escape route that only you can follow, which has active things to seriously stop even the most effective SWAT team.

After all, once you are down in the sewers, you might well be able to escape, as long as it is 20 minutes before anyone can follow you. Any less than five minutes and you could too easily get caught up with by some uber-fitness freak, if the escape route is tricky, you are dragging bags of cash or a hostage, and they might well be a marathon runner!

Something like a big steel door that you can drop shut, with a big ass lock. Something like at the end of SWAT? That was funny. The Claymore thing (in SWAT) was good, but the crims took far too long to set it up and nearly got caught.

The Claymore collars would certainly slow down any pursuit, since people would be running screaming and exploding all over the place. Some would be going blue, with my idea, and hence need immediate attention, rather than just being dead.

Using a mains lead seems like a good idea, until you realise that they often cut the power in hostage situations, and 30 yards of mains lead isn't going to help get over the road or to a getaway car!

Just thought, an even easier way would be a small resistance wire in the collar. Press a button, it heats up! Little damage, lots of pain for control...

[Jacks Complete]

Hostages are some (faulty) form of insurance. You weigh their lives against yours, in order to try to escape. However, the very act of taking a hostage puts you at threat of lethal force.

Better might be some prearranged escape route that only you can follow, which has active things to seriously stop even the most effective SWAT team.

After all, once you are down in the sewers, you might well be able to escape, as long as it is 20 minutes before anyone can follow you. Any less than five minutes and you could too easily get caught up with by some uber-fitness freak, if the escape route is tricky, you are dragging bags of cash or a hostage, and they might well be a marathon runner!

Something like a big steel door that you can drop shut, with a big ass lock. Something like at the end of SWAT? That was funny. The Claymore thing (in SWAT) was good, but the crims took far too long to set it up and nearly got caught.

The Claymore collars would certainly slow down any pursuit, since people would be running screaming and exploding all over the place. Some would be going blue, with my idea, and hence need immediate attention, rather than just being dead.

Using a mains lead seems like a good idea, until you realise that they often cut the power in hostage situations, and 30 yards of mains lead isn't going to help get over the road or to a getaway car!

Just thought, an even easier way would be a small resistance wire in the collar. Press a button, it heats up! Little damage, lots of pain for control...

[akinrog]

P.S. Hostages are usually innocent people! Why even threaten to hurt them?
Will not the Lord Almighty see, and hound you forever? Just repent! Repent or perish! :mad:

Why are you angry this much. Nobody (here) intends to hurt anybody. (I believe discussing intended criminal activity here is forbidden.) My main theme I am emphasizing here is that the hostage taker(s) is sure to be dead, since SWAT always interferes the crisis with violence. For that very reason any intelligable man must not do something like that unless s/he is a brainwashed terrorist scum.

In addition, I intend this thread to be food for thought.

P.S. I am not a mod but I would like to give you a friendly advice. You must edit your posts instead of posting a new reply. There is an edit button which is active for a certain period of time. This is water cooler but such action of yours (i.e. double and sometimes triple posting) shall not be welcome by the mods of the forum. Regards

[akinrog]

P.S. Hostages are usually innocent people! Why even threaten to hurt them?
Will not the Lord Almighty see, and hound you forever? Just repent! Repent or perish! :mad:

Why are you angry this much. Nobody (here) intends to hurt anybody. (I believe discussing intended criminal activity here is forbidden.) My main theme I am emphasizing here is that the hostage taker(s) is sure to be dead, since SWAT always interferes the crisis with violence. For that very reason any intelligable man must not do something like that unless s/he is a brainwashed terrorist scum.

In addition, I intend this thread to be food for thought.

P.S. I am not a mod but I would like to give you a friendly advice. You must edit your posts instead of posting a new reply. There is an edit button which is active for a certain period of time. This is water cooler but such action of yours (i.e. double and sometimes triple posting) shall not be welcome by the mods of the forum. Regards

[akinrog]

P.S. Hostages are usually innocent people! Why even threaten to hurt them?
Will not the Lord Almighty see, and hound you forever? Just repent! Repent or perish! :mad:

Why are you angry this much. Nobody (here) intends to hurt anybody. (I believe discussing intended criminal activity here is forbidden.) My main theme I am emphasizing here is that the hostage taker(s) is sure to be dead, since SWAT always interferes the crisis with violence. For that very reason any intelligable man must not do something like that unless s/he is a brainwashed terrorist scum.

In addition, I intend this thread to be food for thought.

P.S. I am not a mod but I would like to give you a friendly advice. You must edit your posts instead of posting a new reply. There is an edit button which is active for a certain period of time. This is water cooler but such action of yours (i.e. double and sometimes triple posting) shall not be welcome by the mods of the forum. Regards

[Jacks Complete]

akinrog, he knows about the edit button. I don't think anyone really cares about multiple posts in here, since they don't count towards your post count. Post whoring is what is forbidden!

Promoting religion, now *that* might get him in trouble...

As for promotion of criminal stuff, aren't we talking about a couple of films? Swordfish, with John Travolta, and SWAT, with Colin Farrell?

[Jacks Complete]

akinrog, he knows about the edit button. I don't think anyone really cares about multiple posts in here, since they don't count towards your post count. Post whoring is what is forbidden!

Promoting religion, now *that* might get him in trouble...

As for promotion of criminal stuff, aren't we talking about a couple of films? Swordfish, with John Travolta, and SWAT, with Colin Farrell?

[Jacks Complete]

akinrog, he knows about the edit button. I don't think anyone really cares about multiple posts in here, since they don't count towards your post count. Post whoring is what is forbidden!

Promoting religion, now *that* might get him in trouble...

As for promotion of criminal stuff, aren't we talking about a couple of films? Swordfish, with John Travolta, and SWAT, with Colin Farrell?

[festergrump]

I believe Akinrog was mostly referring to his triple posting in "The Effect of a HE on Ammunition?" thread. Developing bad habits here in the WC can lead to a severe spanking in the rest of the Forum if one is not careful. Why not do it right all the time no matter where you are? No mistakes that way.

Back on topic: A hostage should expect to die if they are taken. If I were in a situation to neccesitate my taking of hostages, the question would not be whether to kill them or not, but rather when.

[festergrump]

I believe Akinrog was mostly referring to his triple posting in "The Effect of a HE on Ammunition?" thread. Developing bad habits here in the WC can lead to a severe spanking in the rest of the Forum if one is not careful. Why not do it right all the time no matter where you are? No mistakes that way.

Back on topic: A hostage should expect to die if they are taken. If I were in a situation to neccesitate my taking of hostages, the question would not be whether to kill them or not, but rather when.

[festergrump]

I believe Akinrog was mostly referring to his triple posting in "The Effect of a HE on Ammunition?" thread. Developing bad habits here in the WC can lead to a severe spanking in the rest of the Forum if one is not careful. Why not do it right all the time no matter where you are? No mistakes that way.

Back on topic: A hostage should expect to die if they are taken. If I were in a situation to neccesitate my taking of hostages, the question would not be whether to kill them or not, but rather when.

[Jacks Complete]

fester, true.

2,4,6,8, you know what we would apprieciate? ;-)

Back to topic: Personally, if I were taken hostage, I would be looking to take the person out, hard, then shoot all his mates too. End the seige from the inside. Of course, the cops hate this idea, which is why they alone want body armour and guns, and victim disarmament.

[Jacks Complete]

fester, true.

2,4,6,8, you know what we would apprieciate? ;-)

Back to topic: Personally, if I were taken hostage, I would be looking to take the person out, hard, then shoot all his mates too. End the seige from the inside. Of course, the cops hate this idea, which is why they alone want body armour and guns, and victim disarmament.

[Jacks Complete]

fester, true.

2,4,6,8, you know what we would apprieciate? ;-)

Back to topic: Personally, if I were taken hostage, I would be looking to take the person out, hard, then shoot all his mates too. End the seige from the inside. Of course, the cops hate this idea, which is why they alone want body armour and guns, and victim disarmament.

[nbk2000]

Hostages are the wrong word for this, as a 'hostage' is, by definition, to hold someones life as guarantee of compliance by someone else.

Now, as previously stated, the lives of the vast majority of people in the world are imminently expendable to those who aren't their family, and even then...

So think of these things less as 'I can keep the piggies at bay 'cause I can kill the hostages in a horrible manner', and more like 'I can get people to do whatever I need done 'cause they KNOW I can kill them in a horrible manner'. :)

Sure, in a stand-off, you can hold the piggies at bay for a while, but they WILL always try to kill you or do some other stupid shit, all of which will inevitable require you to kill all the hostages, so why bother with collars when bullets are so much cheaper?

The cops aren't going to believe you have such devices on the hostages, so you'll have to demonstrate one by sending a hostage out on a rope and slowly killing them with a collar so everyone sees that:

A) you actually have such devices on the hostages.

B) the collars will kill, and are mercilessly slow deaths.

C) you are willing to use them.

Reason for the rope is to pull the body back in so you can remove the collar before sending out the body for the pigs to take away, as you don't want the piggies having an example of your device to examine and develop possible jamming against.

The better use for the collars is to ensure compliance in people who's cooperation is needed. Say, for instance, on the two people who are needed to open a vault. ;)

Snatch 'em up from their houses, put the collars on their necks, give 'em a little squeeze from the collar so they know they're in deep shit if they don't do what you tell 'em, and send 'em in, monitoring their progress via television.

The mains power plug would be good to include, as you could have a short cord, of only a foot or two's length on them, and have the prisoners plug themselves into the outlets which automatically arms it for such use, and requires a key to deactivate it so that the collars will kill them if they unplug it without your permission.

In fact, you might want to "RTPB: K.I.S.S." the design of the collars, making only a couple of the remotely controlled ones to put on the people who you need to keep mobile (those with the keys and codes) and using the simpler mains powered ones to immobilize the rest of the deadweight, as the vast majority of people in any situation are superfluous to a criminals objective.

The additional bonus to this is that, since outlets are usually widely spaced apart, that the prisoners can't secretly plot with each other to make an escape attempt, being too far apart to talk to each other without you hearing them, and you don't have to constantly watch them or use additional restraints.

And, once you've left, what can they do? They're stuck where they are till someone from the outside comes in. Though nothing is to say that this wouldn't activate a short-circuiter you left behind that trips off all the breakers. (RTPB: Kill all witnesses)

And it also keeps the piggies from cutting off the power, if you should happen to be in that situation.

You'd need to "RTPB: Plan for Failure" and design the collars so they'd have an indicator light on them to show that the socket they are plugged into actually has activated them as intended, as some sockets are 'dead' and have no power.

The person wearing the collar may know this socket to be dead, and wait for an opportune moment to attack you when you think you're protected. This is why, as per the above RTPB, you've designed the collars to:

A) Give visual indication of their proper activation

B) Mechanically locks the plug into the socket, making it impossible to remove without some force, enough to delay and give warning.

Anyone thinking 'Fuck it! They're going to kill me anyways, so I'll take one with me first!' will, by either cutting the cord or forcing it out of the plug, activate the instantaneous explosive destruct, which consists of a few grams of a powerful primary like 4/12 formed in a tiny shaped charge that blows a very messy hole through their entire neck right about where their spine or arteries are located, which will quite handily kill them, but cause you no harm, no matter how close they may be to you when it goes off. :)

You could leave the mains collars behind, as their design would be extremely simple and thus the piggies would learn nothing from them, only the R/C collars needing to be retrieved.

I tried the steel-band collar idea out on several objects.

Using an power drill and a 1/2" band, I was able to crush plastic bottles, break glass jars, and cut a hard apple completely in half. 'Course, my drill can produce more than 80 foot/pounds of torque, so your results may vary.

I'm thinking a cordless screwdriver that'd cost like $20 would be adequate, as it'd only have to tighten up the band by only an inch or two to produce the desired effects, decapitation being undesirable, blood stains being so hard to wash out. ;))

Hook up an FRS band radio to the driver motor, with a DTMF decoder to control it individually, and two channels for tighten/loosen, and your housing for the whole thing, and it shouldn't be more than a hundred dollars or so per R/C collar. :) Mains versions being probably half that. :D

[nbk2000]

Hostages are the wrong word for this, as a 'hostage' is, by definition, to hold someones life as guarantee of compliance by someone else.

Now, as previously stated, the lives of the vast majority of people in the world are imminently expendable to those who aren't their family, and even then...

So think of these things less as 'I can keep the piggies at bay 'cause I can kill the hostages in a horrible manner', and more like 'I can get people to do whatever I need done 'cause they KNOW I can kill them in a horrible manner'. :)

Sure, in a stand-off, you can hold the piggies at bay for a while, but they WILL always try to kill you or do some other stupid shit, all of which will inevitable require you to kill all the hostages, so why bother with collars when bullets are so much cheaper?

The cops aren't going to believe you have such devices on the hostages, so you'll have to demonstrate one by sending a hostage out on a rope and slowly killing them with a collar so everyone sees that:

A) you actually have such devices on the hostages.

B) the collars will kill, and are mercilessly slow deaths.

C) you are willing to use them.

Reason for the rope is to pull the body back in so you can remove the collar before sending out the body for the pigs to take away, as you don't want the piggies having an example of your device to examine and develop possible jamming against.

The better use for the collars is to ensure compliance in people who's cooperation is needed. Say, for instance, on the two people who are needed to open a vault. ;)

Snatch 'em up from their houses, put the collars on their necks, give 'em a little squeeze from the collar so they know they're in deep shit if they don't do what you tell 'em, and send 'em in, monitoring their progress via television.

The mains power plug would be good to include, as you could have a short cord, of only a foot or two's length on them, and have the prisoners plug themselves into the outlets which automatically arms it for such use, and requires a key to deactivate it so that the collars will kill them if they unplug it without your permission.

In fact, you might want to "RTPB: K.I.S.S." the design of the collars, making only a couple of the remotely controlled ones to put on the people who you need to keep mobile (those with the keys and codes) and using the simpler mains powered ones to immobilize the rest of the deadweight, as the vast majority of people in any situation are superfluous to a criminals objective.

The additional bonus to this is that, since outlets are usually widely spaced apart, that the prisoners can't secretly plot with each other to make an escape attempt, being too far apart to talk to each other without you hearing them, and you don't have to constantly watch them or use additional restraints.

And, once you've left, what can they do? They're stuck where they are till someone from the outside comes in. Though nothing is to say that this wouldn't activate a short-circuiter you left behind that trips off all the breakers. (RTPB: Kill all witnesses)

And it also keeps the piggies from cutting off the power, if you should happen to be in that situation.

You'd need to "RTPB: Plan for Failure" and design the collars so they'd have an indicator light on them to show that the socket they are plugged into actually has activated them as intended, as some sockets are 'dead' and have no power.

The person wearing the collar may know this socket to be dead, and wait for an opportune moment to attack you when you think you're protected. This is why, as per the above RTPB, you've designed the collars to:

A) Give visual indication of their proper activation

B) Mechanically locks the plug into the socket, making it impossible to remove without some force, enough to delay and give warning.

Anyone thinking 'Fuck it! They're going to kill me anyways, so I'll take one with me first!' will, by either cutting the cord or forcing it out of the plug, activate the instantaneous explosive destruct, which consists of a few grams of a powerful primary like 4/12 formed in a tiny shaped charge that blows a very messy hole through their entire neck right about where their spine or arteries are located, which will quite handily kill them, but cause you no harm, no matter how close they may be to you when it goes off. :)

You could leave the mains collars behind, as their design would be extremely simple and thus the piggies would learn nothing from them, only the R/C collars needing to be retrieved.

I tried the steel-band collar idea out on several objects.

Using an power drill and a 1/2" band, I was able to crush plastic bottles, break glass jars, and cut a hard apple completely in half. 'Course, my drill can produce more than 80 foot/pounds of torque, so your results may vary.

I'm thinking a cordless screwdriver that'd cost like $20 would be adequate, as it'd only have to tighten up the band by only an inch or two to produce the desired effects, decapitation being undesirable, blood stains being so hard to wash out. ;))

Hook up an FRS band radio to the driver motor, with a DTMF decoder to control it individually, and two channels for tighten/loosen, and your housing for the whole thing, and it shouldn't be more than a hundred dollars or so per R/C collar. :) Mains versions being probably half that. :D

[nbk2000]

Hostages are the wrong word for this, as a 'hostage' is, by definition, to hold someones life as guarantee of compliance by someone else.

Now, as previously stated, the lives of the vast majority of people in the world are imminently expendable to those who aren't their family, and even then...

So think of these things less as 'I can keep the piggies at bay 'cause I can kill the hostages in a horrible manner', and more like 'I can get people to do whatever I need done 'cause they KNOW I can kill them in a horrible manner'. :)

Sure, in a stand-off, you can hold the piggies at bay for a while, but they WILL always try to kill you or do some other stupid shit, all of which will inevitable require you to kill all the hostages, so why bother with collars when bullets are so much cheaper?

The cops aren't going to believe you have such devices on the hostages, so you'll have to demonstrate one by sending a hostage out on a rope and slowly killing them with a collar so everyone sees that:

A) you actually have such devices on the hostages.

B) the collars will kill, and are mercilessly slow deaths.

C) you are willing to use them.

Reason for the rope is to pull the body back in so you can remove the collar before sending out the body for the pigs to take away, as you don't want the piggies having an example of your device to examine and develop possible jamming against.

The better use for the collars is to ensure compliance in people who's cooperation is needed. Say, for instance, on the two people who are needed to open a vault. ;)

Snatch 'em up from their houses, put the collars on their necks, give 'em a little squeeze from the collar so they know they're in deep shit if they don't do what you tell 'em, and send 'em in, monitoring their progress via television.

The mains power plug would be good to include, as you could have a short cord, of only a foot or two's length on them, and have the prisoners plug themselves into the outlets which automatically arms it for such use, and requires a key to deactivate it so that the collars will kill them if they unplug it without your permission.

In fact, you might want to "RTPB: K.I.S.S." the design of the collars, making only a couple of the remotely controlled ones to put on the people who you need to keep mobile (those with the keys and codes) and using the simpler mains powered ones to immobilize the rest of the deadweight, as the vast majority of people in any situation are superfluous to a criminals objective.

The additional bonus to this is that, since outlets are usually widely spaced apart, that the prisoners can't secretly plot with each other to make an escape attempt, being too far apart to talk to each other without you hearing them, and you don't have to constantly watch them or use additional restraints.

And, once you've left, what can they do? They're stuck where they are till someone from the outside comes in. Though nothing is to say that this wouldn't activate a short-circuiter you left behind that trips off all the breakers. (RTPB: Kill all witnesses)

And it also keeps the piggies from cutting off the power, if you should happen to be in that situation.

You'd need to "RTPB: Plan for Failure" and design the collars so they'd have an indicator light on them to show that the socket they are plugged into actually has activated them as intended, as some sockets are 'dead' and have no power.

The person wearing the collar may know this socket to be dead, and wait for an opportune moment to attack you when you think you're protected. This is why, as per the above RTPB, you've designed the collars to:

A) Give visual indication of their proper activation

B) Mechanically locks the plug into the socket, making it impossible to remove without some force, enough to delay and give warning.

Anyone thinking 'Fuck it! They're going to kill me anyways, so I'll take one with me first!' will, by either cutting the cord or forcing it out of the plug, activate the instantaneous explosive destruct, which consists of a few grams of a powerful primary like 4/12 formed in a tiny shaped charge that blows a very messy hole through their entire neck right about where their spine or arteries are located, which will quite handily kill them, but cause you no harm, no matter how close they may be to you when it goes off. :)

You could leave the mains collars behind, as their design would be extremely simple and thus the piggies would learn nothing from them, only the R/C collars needing to be retrieved.

I tried the steel-band collar idea out on several objects.

Using an power drill and a 1/2" band, I was able to crush plastic bottles, break glass jars, and cut a hard apple completely in half. 'Course, my drill can produce more than 80 foot/pounds of torque, so your results may vary.

I'm thinking a cordless screwdriver that'd cost like $20 would be adequate, as it'd only have to tighten up the band by only an inch or two to produce the desired effects, decapitation being undesirable, blood stains being so hard to wash out. ;))

Hook up an FRS band radio to the driver motor, with a DTMF decoder to control it individually, and two channels for tighten/loosen, and your housing for the whole thing, and it shouldn't be more than a hundred dollars or so per R/C collar. :) Mains versions being probably half that. :D

[Jacks Complete]

RTPB: Plan for failure

Don't have all your hostages mains powered, as you might suddenly wind up 'short'!

NBK, that is pretty much what I imagined. The main difference is that the band is quite thick, but the actual part that tightens is thin. Much less torque, and hence power, would be needed that way for the same result. The thicker band would simply stop tampering or cutting, while allowing support for control electronics.

A five(?) second audio warning might be fun, too. Unplug - beep! beep-beep! beep-beep-beep! BOOM! (actually more "Phut" but hey...)

[Jacks Complete]

RTPB: Plan for failure

Don't have all your hostages mains powered, as you might suddenly wind up 'short'!

NBK, that is pretty much what I imagined. The main difference is that the band is quite thick, but the actual part that tightens is thin. Much less torque, and hence power, would be needed that way for the same result. The thicker band would simply stop tampering or cutting, while allowing support for control electronics.

A five(?) second audio warning might be fun, too. Unplug - beep! beep-beep! beep-beep-beep! BOOM! (actually more "Phut" but hey...)

[Jacks Complete]

RTPB: Plan for failure

Don't have all your hostages mains powered, as you might suddenly wind up 'short'!

NBK, that is pretty much what I imagined. The main difference is that the band is quite thick, but the actual part that tightens is thin. Much less torque, and hence power, would be needed that way for the same result. The thicker band would simply stop tampering or cutting, while allowing support for control electronics.

A five(?) second audio warning might be fun, too. Unplug - beep! beep-beep! beep-beep-beep! BOOM! (actually more "Phut" but hey...)

[nbk2000]

Construction of the actual collar, the part that goes around the neck and holds everything in place, seemed problematic, but I think I've a solution.

Lamination.

Just like how padlocks are made from simple plate steel and have complex internal geometries, you can do the same thing using thin aluminum plate (for ease of manufacture), cutting the holes in the plates where needed, stacking them up and putting the electronics and motor in the voids, and sealing it all up with several solid plates, everything being riveted or welded together into a solid unit. :)

Use cardboard at first to prototype the pieces to build your design, and use the finished pieces as templates to cut the metal.

[nbk2000]

Construction of the actual collar, the part that goes around the neck and holds everything in place, seemed problematic, but I think I've a solution.

Lamination.

Just like how padlocks are made from simple plate steel and have complex internal geometries, you can do the same thing using thin aluminum plate (for ease of manufacture), cutting the holes in the plates where needed, stacking them up and putting the electronics and motor in the voids, and sealing it all up with several solid plates, everything being riveted or welded together into a solid unit. :)

Use cardboard at first to prototype the pieces to build your design, and use the finished pieces as templates to cut the metal.

[nbk2000]

Construction of the actual collar, the part that goes around the neck and holds everything in place, seemed problematic, but I think I've a solution.

Lamination.

Just like how padlocks are made from simple plate steel and have complex internal geometries, you can do the same thing using thin aluminum plate (for ease of manufacture), cutting the holes in the plates where needed, stacking them up and putting the electronics and motor in the voids, and sealing it all up with several solid plates, everything being riveted or welded together into a solid unit. :)

Use cardboard at first to prototype the pieces to build your design, and use the finished pieces as templates to cut the metal.

[nbk2000]

Neck Brace (gipsverband.free.fr/CarolynInNeckBrace.jpg)

:)

Just put a hollowed out neck brace on the hostage, and tell them that, if anyone asks, they're to tell them they hurt their neck the night before.

[nbk2000]

Neck Brace (gipsverband.free.fr/CarolynInNeckBrace.jpg)

:)

Just put a hollowed out neck brace on the hostage, and tell them that, if anyone asks, they're to tell them they hurt their neck the night before.

[nbk2000]

Neck Brace (gipsverband.free.fr/CarolynInNeckBrace.jpg)

:)

Just put a hollowed out neck brace on the hostage, and tell them that, if anyone asks, they're to tell them they hurt their neck the night before.

[Jacks Complete]

nbk, you seem to have stuck an extra space or %20 in the URL.

That's one heck of a neck brace, though...

You could just use a foam neckbrace with a battery and a hot wire system in it as a pain compliance tool. If they let it get too hot, they would rapidly be breathing nasty toxic foam smoke, and then get probably fatal burns to the neck as the foam went up in smoke!

You just need to find a way to stop it being removed, which might be as simple as telling them it will explode if the tab is pulled, or something like superglue to hold the seal solid (though it might melt the foam), all the way to a clever locking system.

Beware a knife cutting the foam, too.

[Jacks Complete]

nbk, you seem to have stuck an extra space or %20 in the URL.

That's one heck of a neck brace, though...

You could just use a foam neckbrace with a battery and a hot wire system in it as a pain compliance tool. If they let it get too hot, they would rapidly be breathing nasty toxic foam smoke, and then get probably fatal burns to the neck as the foam went up in smoke!

You just need to find a way to stop it being removed, which might be as simple as telling them it will explode if the tab is pulled, or something like superglue to hold the seal solid (though it might melt the foam), all the way to a clever locking system.

Beware a knife cutting the foam, too.

[Jacks Complete]

nbk, you seem to have stuck an extra space or %20 in the URL.

That's one heck of a neck brace, though...

You could just use a foam neckbrace with a battery and a hot wire system in it as a pain compliance tool. If they let it get too hot, they would rapidly be breathing nasty toxic foam smoke, and then get probably fatal burns to the neck as the foam went up in smoke!

You just need to find a way to stop it being removed, which might be as simple as telling them it will explode if the tab is pulled, or something like superglue to hold the seal solid (though it might melt the foam), all the way to a clever locking system.

Beware a knife cutting the foam, too.

[nbk2000]

The neck brace itself is simply a cover for the more secure secure metal collar that's already been discussed. Foam anything can't be made secure.

Though I could see using expanding foam, like that used in sealing wall gaps, to cover a collar on (and adhering it to!) a hostage when disguising it's presence isn't necessary, but the exact nature of it is. Plus, it'd make it all that much more impossible to remove. :p

A much less subtle idea would be to modify a motorcycle helmet to be air-tight, then jamming it on their head, steel strap holding it in place, foaming the neck to seal it up, and you remote controls the air valve solenoid. ;)

Air on...*beep*...air OFF!

And this has the built-in effect of providing a disguise for your pizza delivery 'robber', giving him the illusion that you might let him go without him being wanted for the crime, since he was disguised.

[nbk2000]

The neck brace itself is simply a cover for the more secure secure metal collar that's already been discussed. Foam anything can't be made secure.

Though I could see using expanding foam, like that used in sealing wall gaps, to cover a collar on (and adhering it to!) a hostage when disguising it's presence isn't necessary, but the exact nature of it is. Plus, it'd make it all that much more impossible to remove. :p

A much less subtle idea would be to modify a motorcycle helmet to be air-tight, then jamming it on their head, steel strap holding it in place, foaming the neck to seal it up, and you remote controls the air valve solenoid. ;)

Air on...*beep*...air OFF!

And this has the built-in effect of providing a disguise for your pizza delivery 'robber', giving him the illusion that you might let him go without him being wanted for the crime, since he was disguised.

[Jacks Complete]

Hahaha, brilliant!

It amuses me when you see the signs saying "No helmets" in banks. If you are robbing the bank, when they ask you to remove it, you stick a gun in their face. If you aren't robbing it, then there is no point asking, since it makes no odds!

[Jacks Complete]

Hahaha, brilliant!

It amuses me when you see the signs saying "No helmets" in banks. If you are robbing the bank, when they ask you to remove it, you stick a gun in their face. If you aren't robbing it, then there is no point asking, since it makes no odds!

[nbk2000]

The Holy Grail of HBC's is here!

http://www.thehearnow.com/products.html

Built-in GPS, geo-fencing, remote activation range of up to 12 miles, remote speaker so your 'pet' can here your commands, etc., all in a package small enough to fit in a dog collar.

And less than $300! :D

That is, if this is a real product and not 'vaporware'.

[Mr. 47]

NBK I was thinking that those GPS collars would be perfect for your idea in the other thread called "dogs as weapons." So you could give commands to your dogs from a distance to attack the piggies.

[Sausagemit]

Thanks NBK, you just made my day. I really want one of those now and I don't own a dog. I could think of so many devient uses for those things.

[5_seven]

Or you could just rob a bank the correct way: (while wearing a mask and covering any distinguishing marks) Get in, get the money, then get the fuck out. Destroy the car, the clothes etc and hide the money somewhere safe. Come back for it, at the earliest, four years.

[nbk2000]

Or you could just rob a bank the correct way...


You mean like every other dumbass in prison for bank robbery did it? :p

[Hirudinea]

Or you could just rob a bank the correct way...

You mean like every other dumbass in prison for bank robbery did it?

Oh there are some examples of people who did it right, the "Stopwatch Gang" for example, or sure they eventually got caught, but they pulled off 140 jobs, none taking more than 90 seconds, and no exploding jewellery either. :D

[5_seven]

Doing it right doesn't mean not going to prison. You do the job, hide the cash, let the officials find you ( because they will find you), and use some of the money to hire a good lawyer that'll get your sentance cut down as low as possible. You'll go to a federal prison, which means you stay the entire sentance, but you get out, pick up the money, and start a new life elsewhere.

[nbk2000]

Wow...getting caught on purpose...one hell of a plan you've got there. :D

'Course, your plan will have a 10 to 40 year delay in it. :)

Better hope that the fiat money you steal is worth a fuck when you get out, and hasn't been invalidated by a currency recall or hyper-inflation in the meantime.

As for the Stopwatch gang, that's the problem with gangs...the fact that there's more than one person involved. That means at least one rat given enough pressure, and all that many more people you have to split the dough with, and the more often you have to do jobs to make it worth a damn.

If you're pulling 140 jobs, it's not because you're so damn good at it, but because you're:

A)Greedy.

B)Too stupid to do a job that PAYS!

C)Have too many people involved that you have to split the loot with.

[5_seven]

Wow...getting caught on purpose...one hell of a plan you've got there. :D

'Course, your plan will have a 10 to 40 year delay in it. :)

Better hope that the fiat money you steal is worth a fuck when you get out, and hasn't been invalidated by a currency recall or hyper-inflation in the meantime.
That really depends on the case the prosecutor has against you, and how quick they want to close the case, if they don't have jack shit but motive and circumstantial evidence, you can get off with 5 years, plus the added bonus of not having to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life. And I'm still using/getting bills from 95, got a five dollar bill the other day date marked 1992.
But anyway, I just feel if you're going to do something, do it right. The more variables like gps collars and decapitation devices there are, the more likely something will go wrong. I on the other hand will keep my lousy middle management day job

[nbk2000]

RTPB 'Imitate, then innovate'

The whole 'run in, rab the money, and run into the stolen car' has been done to death.

Search for a thread called Pink Mist.

The guy who did that has yet to be caught.

See, you put an HBC on his neck, superglue a replica gun in his hand, and send him on his way with a mask to put on when he gets there.

If the meat puppet gets away with the loot, you can let him go without having to blow him up.

Reason?

Think about it...what's he going to tell the cops?

"Some guy with a bomb around my neck forced me to rob a bank with a gun in my hand and a mask on my head."

You know what the cops would say?

First, :rolleyes: at the story, and then :mad: for thinking them so stupid as to believe it! :)

Just let the meat puppet know this fact and advise him to consider himself lucky to still be alive. Chances are fairly good that he'll not be going to the cops.

Even if he does go to the cops, and even if they believe him, so what?

There's nothing to identify you, since you caught the meat puppet alone and was careful to not leave any forensics at the capture site.

If the meat puppet fucks up and gets caught, the cops will blow him away when he doesn't drop the gun, and the HBC ensures the meat puppets death, and probably a pig or two as collateral damage. :D

[5_seven]

I saw something like that on Law and order criminal intent, they sent in a guy wired with fake explosives, he handed the clerk a note, showed the 'explosives' under his jacket, got the money and left. The story started when the robbers got tired of the guy, switched the fakes for the real deal, and erased him. Seeing how law and order is based around actual events.....
But with the growing technology, I think it's stupid to rob a bank. There are much better ways to get money for nothing, and your chicks for free

[Gerbil]

NBK...thanks for that link :D . I've been looking at wireless systems for a while, as I'm interested in r/c aircraft with weapon capabilities and a decent range (10-20 miles or so). Similar to Hezbollah's Mirsad-1.

So far the best option seems to be a wireless LAN bridge connected to an onboard computer, which would have camera, GPS, servos etc connected to it. But it's interesting to see what's available on the market...

There are much better ways to get money for nothing

Unless you want to take your (exceedingly small) chances of landing the jackpot at Vegas, I'm yet to see a good way of getting free cash. That said, bank robbery doesn't tend to be the greatest idea in the world.

[Hirudinea]

As for the Stopwatch gang, that's the problem with gangs...the fact that there's more than one person involved. That means at least one rat given enough pressure, and all that many more people you have to split the dough with, and the more often you have to do jobs to make it worth a damn.

If you're pulling 140 jobs, it's not because you're so damn good at it,


To do anything illegal 140 times and only get caught once you have to be doing somthing right.

but because you're:

A)Greedy.

B)Too stupid to do a job that PAYS!


But the method they used is still sound, poor application dosn't invalidate it.


C)Have too many people involved that you have to split the loot with.

That can be dealt with while dividing up the loot with a proper seating arangement and a gun.

[nbk2000]

Which is the greater accomplishment:

To do something once and never get caught?

OR

To do something a hundred times, get caught, and spend the rest of your life in prison?

[Gerbil]

Hmmm.

Dealing trippy little chemicals will get you a life sentence, when the inevitable dawn raid comes. Customers have an awful habit of turning you in to save their asses...and while you can take good measures to protect identity, the risk probably isn't worth it. Especially considering that you'd be out on the streets night after night.

Selling shit on ebay is unlikely to get you into the rich list ;) . Although, there aren't very many chemicals there (on the UK site at least). Anyone want to volunteer? :D

*edit* Ditto with 5_seven's comment, sorry about going so OT.

[5_seven]

Didn't mean selling drugs or chemicals on ebay, you can sell anything there, and charge whatever you want. Anyway, I got way off topic, so, my apologies to the folks this may piss off.

[Hirudinea]

Which is the greater accomplishment:

To do something once and never get caught?

OR

To do something a hundred times, get caught, and spend the rest of your life in prison?

And the method the Stopwatch gang used worked about 99.5% of the time, I have never heard about anyone using remote control collars on hostages to successfully rob a bank. So I say use the 99% plan once, make your score and walk away, that is how you rob a bank.

[nbk2000]

Goggle for:

"bomb collar" pizza

Already done and successful. :)

And, if worse comes to worse and you are captured, which would you rather be? The common hoodlum who ran in with a gun? Or the 'genius' who used bomb collars to make other people rob banks for you?

In prison, reputation is the difference between getting along and getting raped. Being known as a devious bastard helps a lot inside. ;)

As for the Stopwatch Gangs method...yes, it worked great. Problem was it worked so well the idiots didn't know when to stop. But that's a problem stemming from the user, not the tool.