Add a Flash to an ANNM Explosion?

[Brakkie]

As most of you have detonated ANNM in the past or still do (like me) you don't see such a big flash or "flame". If you look at for example C4 you'll see a big "flame" during detonation. I want to get the same with ANNM. I was just brainstorming of things to add to achieve a "flame" like that. I'll test it out in 2 weeks but I don't got any nitromethane now so gotta wait till April to get new money.

How about adding some Aluminium Powder to the ANNM would that work??? I tried to add some BlackPowder to it but that didn't gave a nice result.

Anyone has some idea's???

[Brakkie]

As most of you have detonated ANNM in the past or still do (like me) you don't see such a big flash or "flame". If you look at for example C4 you'll see a big "flame" during detonation. I want to get the same with ANNM. I was just brainstorming of things to add to achieve a "flame" like that. I'll test it out in 2 weeks but I don't got any nitromethane now so gotta wait till April to get new money.

How about adding some Aluminium Powder to the ANNM would that work??? I tried to add some BlackPowder to it but that didn't gave a nice result.

Anyone has some idea's???

[Brakkie]

As most of you have detonated ANNM in the past or still do (like me) you don't see such a big flash or "flame". If you look at for example C4 you'll see a big "flame" during detonation. I want to get the same with ANNM. I was just brainstorming of things to add to achieve a "flame" like that. I'll test it out in 2 weeks but I don't got any nitromethane now so gotta wait till April to get new money.

How about adding some Aluminium Powder to the ANNM would that work??? I tried to add some BlackPowder to it but that didn't gave a nice result.

Anyone has some idea's???

[The_Duke]

Yeah, just add some fine Al powder to it. The end result will be a nice brite flash upon DDT.

The Al will also increase the heat of the explosion.

[The_Duke]

Yeah, just add some fine Al powder to it. The end result will be a nice brite flash upon DDT.

The Al will also increase the heat of the explosion.

[The_Duke]

Yeah, just add some fine Al powder to it. The end result will be a nice brite flash upon DDT.

The Al will also increase the heat of the explosion.

[megalomania]

Arn't there military formulations of ANNM that use aluminum powder to increase the power? Just about any explosive will benefit from the addition of a metal powder in general.

[megalomania]

Arn't there military formulations of ANNM that use aluminum powder to increase the power? Just about any explosive will benefit from the addition of a metal powder in general.

[megalomania]

Arn't there military formulations of ANNM that use aluminum powder to increase the power? Just about any explosive will benefit from the addition of a metal powder in general.

[hereno]

A good portion of the flame/smoke resulting from C4 is a result of the plasticizer used. You could try gelling the NM with a carbonaceous substance to get a simular effect, though detrimental to power. Something that wont dissolve into the NM will probably help with sensitivity, naphthalene powder maybe? (I don't know if it dissolves or not).

Arn't there military formulations of ANNM that use aluminum powder to increase the power?

I dought there is such a thing as "military" formulations of ANNM. There maybe gelled, or foamed NM/Al explosives, since ANNM should all be mixed on site, especially AN/Al containing mixtures without water repulsing oils. Though there is a movie of ANNM/Aluminum on this page: http://www.geocities.com/roguemovies6/index.html which shows the flash on detonation, and various other formulations (not Al) in its original patent US4,093,478.

[hereno]

A good portion of the flame/smoke resulting from C4 is a result of the plasticizer used. You could try gelling the NM with a carbonaceous substance to get a simular effect, though detrimental to power. Something that wont dissolve into the NM will probably help with sensitivity, naphthalene powder maybe? (I don't know if it dissolves or not).

Arn't there military formulations of ANNM that use aluminum powder to increase the power?

I dought there is such a thing as "military" formulations of ANNM. There maybe gelled, or foamed NM/Al explosives, since ANNM should all be mixed on site, especially AN/Al containing mixtures without water repulsing oils. Though there is a movie of ANNM/Aluminum on this page: http://www.geocities.com/roguemovies6/index.html which shows the flash on detonation, and various other formulations (not Al) in its original patent US4,093,478.

[hereno]

A good portion of the flame/smoke resulting from C4 is a result of the plasticizer used. You could try gelling the NM with a carbonaceous substance to get a simular effect, though detrimental to power. Something that wont dissolve into the NM will probably help with sensitivity, naphthalene powder maybe? (I don't know if it dissolves or not).

Arn't there military formulations of ANNM that use aluminum powder to increase the power?

I dought there is such a thing as "military" formulations of ANNM. There maybe gelled, or foamed NM/Al explosives, since ANNM should all be mixed on site, especially AN/Al containing mixtures without water repulsing oils. Though there is a movie of ANNM/Aluminum on this page: http://www.geocities.com/roguemovies6/index.html which shows the flash on detonation, and various other formulations (not Al) in its original patent US4,093,478.

[nuclearattack]

for me alluminium powder is the best choice, and if you use a high Al ratio you will have a nice flash but not a flame burst...maybe adding a solid fuel will produce a flame. What about adding flour or coal?

[nuclearattack]

for me alluminium powder is the best choice, and if you use a high Al ratio you will have a nice flash but not a flame burst...maybe adding a solid fuel will produce a flame. What about adding flour or coal?

[nuclearattack]

for me alluminium powder is the best choice, and if you use a high Al ratio you will have a nice flash but not a flame burst...maybe adding a solid fuel will produce a flame. What about adding flour or coal?

[kingspaz]

Nuclearattack, the addition of a high carbon fuel is a good idea. For a good uniform mixture and ease of use I'd try and experiment with some petrol/diesel dissolved in the nitromethane before addition to the AN. This should incorporate more carbon into the mixture, giving an orange flame/flash.

[kingspaz]

Nuclearattack, the addition of a high carbon fuel is a good idea. For a good uniform mixture and ease of use I'd try and experiment with some petrol/diesel dissolved in the nitromethane before addition to the AN. This should incorporate more carbon into the mixture, giving an orange flame/flash.

[kingspaz]

Nuclearattack, the addition of a high carbon fuel is a good idea. For a good uniform mixture and ease of use I'd try and experiment with some petrol/diesel dissolved in the nitromethane before addition to the AN. This should incorporate more carbon into the mixture, giving an orange flame/flash.

[arnold]

1. How long can I store the concentrated nm from hobby store?
2. How long can I store annm?
3. Which explosive is more powerful and more sensitive: annm or an+egdn? Since here where I live the second one is relly more popular

[Kleng]

1. NM could be stored for a long time. Just try to store it a dry and dark place.
2. ANNM should not be stored. The best is drying the AN in an oven and put it in a plastic bag. Store it in a ziplock-bag or similar. Carry the AN and NM separately to the blasting area. Then mix it, insert a blasting cap and fire.
3. Never tried AN/EGDN, but ANNM is quite poweful. ANNMAl (43:22:35) is even more powerful and has greater brisance.

[simply RED]

35% Al is too much...

[Charles Owlen Picket]

35% Al is too much...

IIRC one of the Hurst patents (or posts on AEE) called for the addition of Al at the 10% range of overall weight. While another source (possibly a crap book) put it at 15% as in 60:25:15. But I could be mistaken. Seems like anything over 15% is a waste.

[arnold]

The optimal amount of of Al is about 6%.

1. So as long as I want?
2. Why it should not be stored?

In my country AN/EGDN is very popular. This explosive is very powerful but is less practical becouse of nitrating the glycol. Once mixed with AN it can be stored as long as you want but then possibly it can make less sensitive. Also the egdn can be stored as long as you want.

I have 5L of acids and glycol and it takes me very much of space so I'm considering selling it and buying NM but I'm not sure which explosive is better.



P.S. Is it possible to make a good explosive mixing AN with racing fuel (NM+methanol+castor oil)? If it is what are the proportions?

[Charles Owlen Picket]

IIRC when examining military formulations of energetic material, those that are "aluminized" are geared toward anti-personnel efforts. There are a great many formulations that use aluminum for incendiary effects but from the standpoint of detonations enhanced with Al, the effect is to provide a vicious flash into the wave (see the BLU 82-A1 series as example for AP applications).

[Rbick]

Arnold,
Yes, you can definatley make a good explosive mixture with AN and racing fuel. When mixing nitromethane with AN, I have found it's best to use about 20-25% NM to 75-80% AN. ANNM is cap sensitive, I use 1g of pressed AP to set off up to 50g charges. I believe adding AL makes it more sensitive. As far as sensitivity, ANNM is less sensitive than EGDN, as EGDN is comparable to NG. ANNM is safe to mold and handle as you wish. I believe ANNM is also financially a better decision, and not as much work is needed to make it.

I wouldn't see a point in mixing ANNM with motor oil or any other type of fuel. If you mix methanol or hydro carbon fuels with AN, you will get something similar to ANFO which is much weaker than ANNM. Read other posts on this thread for measurements of AL to use.

You can also make PLX with nitromethane and an amine group (sensitizer). Use the SEARCH ENGINE for more information on this. Being an explosive in itself, NM has a VoD of about 6200 m/sec. As for storage, ANNM should not be stored but mixed and used at the blasting site due to AN being very hygroscopic (readily absorbs moisture) decreasing its power. So store your AN and NM seperatley. Make sure your NM is high purity and high conc. If you arn't interested in the chemistry side of explosives, I would get rid of the acids and glycol and invest in some AN and NM, it'll save you time and money.

[arnold]

ANNM is less sensitive than EGDN, as EGDN is comparable to NG.I didn't want to compare ANNM and EGDN but ANNM and AN+EGDN!:confused:

I wouldn't see a point in mixing ANNM with motor oil or any other type of fuel.
Again, you don't understand me! The straight racing fuel contains NM+methanol +castor oil. This fuel is more available then pure nitromethane. Is it an alternative? If it is, what proportions, what cap, how powerful?

ANNM should not be stored but mixed and used at the blasting site due to AN being very hygroscopic (readily absorbs moisture) decreasing its power. And this is the only reason?:confused: You have to simply protect the explosive from moisture by for example packing it into a bag! What else?

And how long can I store NM (10? 20 years?) and ANNM?

I would get rid of the acids and glycol and invest in some AN and NM, it'll save you time and money.I'm trying to do it

[Rbick]

Ok, well NM is less sensitive than EGDN, so a mixture of ANNM will be less sensitive than ANEGDN. I'm unsure of the sensitivity of ANEGDN, but I assume it would be somewhat safe for handling, but not as safe as ANNM.

The racing fuel mix would make an explosive, but it wouldn't be as powerful as ANNM. It would also be more difficult to detonate than ANNM depending on the conc. of NM, and would probably need a booster charge. Try to get pure NM, its your best bet for performance. What conc. NM is the racing mix?

The main reason is because of AN being so hygroscopic. But also, it is a good practice to transport the two components seperatley for extra saftey. What if you got in a car accident on the way to the blasting sight? If you have the option to move them seperatley, do it. For storing AN, I put it in a platic bag, get all the air out of it, tighten it up and then put a second plastic bag around it and tighten that. I found this works pretty well for long term storage.

I've heard stories of NM that was years old being used without a problem. Try not to store it too long though, just in case. Search for NM decomposition on google or something. Good luck.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Not many people are aware that NM is also hygroscopic! The use of Castor oil and methanol don't prevent this but I believe that their use lowers the level of moisture that can be available via opening and closing containers, etc.

As a matter of fact there is a patent that uses a percentage of methanol as a purposeful addition to the NM to enhance it's distribution over prilled material (why, I have no idea). Sealed KinePac will last certainly 20 years. I believe that the only issue that was discussed in AEE about this was UV.

[bobsuruncle]

ANNM is quite poweful. ANNMAl (43:22:35) is even more powerful and has greater brisance.


I was under the imperssion that around 20% AL powder acted as a sensetizer, increasing brisance but not making the blast any more powerful.

[fiknet]

IIRC Al lowers the brisance of the charge as it can't be detonated but rather increases the air blast of the charge and the heat as it is consumed with the detonation releasing lots of heat and energy.

[hereno]

35% Al is too much...
No, theoretically the highest energy density is achieved with 35% Al, check the link above or http://youtube.com/watch?v=WElWg2I0xSA and A147 of encyclopedia of explosive and related items which doesnt refer to ANNM but other examples are given. And its also likely the best to achieve a flashy explosion with theoretically the only gaseous products being flammable.

Whether or not its more brisant is uncertain, ordinarily Al would decrese brisance but AN doesnt act as an ideal explosive especially in small sizes thus common conceptions probably wont apply.
I wouldn't see a point in mixing ANNM with motor oil or any other type of fuel.
In hursts patent he uses an added fuel to achieve oxygen balance as the high proprtion of NM needed for oxygen balance (~33%) alone causes desensitization to commercial detonators.
Not many people are aware that NM is also hygroscopic! The use of Castor oil and methanol don't prevent this but I believe that their use lowers the level of moisture that can be available via opening and closing containers, etc.
Methanol is hygroscopic, not NM to any significant extent. And fuel is unlikely to contain castor oil these days, rather a synthetic oil.

[Rbick]

Thanks for the info hereno. I just have a few questions.

33% NM in an ANNM mixture? When I mixed AN and NM with a 33% NM level, the mixture turned very mushy and did not detonate even with a 8g pressed AP cap (the charge was 50g). I'm assuming this is due to the desensitizing that you are talking about. Could you post the formula please?

As far as adding a different fuel to the ANNM mix; Although the Oxygen could be balanced out, I wouldn't think the VoD would improve, considering the highest I've seen of other AN compounds were far less than that of ANNM mixtures. I guess the volume of gasses produced would improve though...

[Kleng]

The VOD of ANNM is so great because NM itself is an explosive.

Diesel for instance, is not an explosive, and will only work as a fuel. That means ANNM has a lot greater VOD and more power than ANFO.

[arnold]

Ok, well NM is less sensitive than EGDN, so a mixture of ANNM will be less sensitive than ANEGDN. You're likely wrong. NM alone is not sensitive but in ANNM it is sensitize with ammonia to PLX and this PLX sensitize the AN. Nobody knows which is more powerful?

The racing fuel mix would make an explosive, but it wouldn't be as powerful as ANNM. It would also be more difficult to detonate than ANNM depending on the conc. of NM, and would probably need a booster charge. Try to get pure NM, its your best bet for performance. What conc. NM is the racing mix?
About 15%. I believe it is more powerful than anfo since the addition of NM. Maybe one knows the proportions?

Over 20% NM is a waste!

[nitram3000]

I have been thinking about making some ANNM with a racing fuel mix I have. It is called Cox super power racing fuel. It says it has 50% more nitro than most other fuels. I'm assuming the NM concentration is about 30%.
USE
The warning on the can says "CONTAINS NITROMETHANE AND METHANOL." It doesn't say castor oil.
PARAGRAPH
I have tried separating the methanol from the NM by evaporating the alcohol, but it turned into a viscous liquid like honey. I think NM evaporates quite fast too, so this wasn't a great idea.
BREAKS
Then I tried distilling it and it also turned into a viscous liquid. Does anyone know what this liquid might be?
NBK
Also, distilling racing fuel mixtures is very efficient since the heat boils away an azeotrope consisting of Methanol and NM. I would just mix the racing fuel with AN, since methanol is an acceptable additive. I agree that it would be difficult to detonate.

[nbk2000]

UTFSE would reveal a wealth of previous discussion on the subject of RC fuel, castor oil, seperation and purification, etc.