Safe Identification and Defeat Guide

[nbk2000]

I've obtained a book about the forcible entry into over a 150 different safes, and below is a list of the safes detailed in the book.

Now, what I'm needing help with is obtaining photographs of the safes listed, so that I can include them in an identification guide that I'm compiling to go with the safe book, as knowing the procedure to get into a particular safe doesn't help you if you don't know what particular model of safe it is you are looking at.

The guide would identify safes by their mounting location (in-floor, wall, stand-alone, vault), size, door style (square, rectangular, round), approximate age (modern, old), type (burglary, fire, data, files), and any external features that would help identify them.

I know such guides already exist, but just try getting a copy from the locksmiths and safe manufacturers who own them, thus I have to recreate the wheel. :mad:

Anyways, below is the list. Anybody who finds any pictures of these safes, e-mail them to me at forumscan@yahoo.com. I'll update the list as I get pictures, to avoid duplication of effort.

Remember that I'm limited to a floppy disk for transfering the pictures off the library computer to my lair, so keep them under 1.4MB, thank you.

Preference is to be given to:

AMSEC
Diebold
Gary
Major
Mosler
Sentry
Star

as all of these are the most commonly used amoung businesses today, with Sentry being the most common home safe.

+++++++++++++++++++

A&B [Depository Safes]

Adesco [Guest Safe Model GS-5EC]

Alpine, Wherle

AMSEC AMVAULT [TL-15 Fire Rated Composite Safe]

AMSEC [U.L. Listed 2 Hr Fire & Impact Safe]

AMSEC [TL-15 Composite Safe]

AMSEC [Wide Body Cash Control Depository Safe [BWB]

AMSEC [B-Rated Front Load Depository Safe]

AMSEC [“C” Rate Lift-Out Safe Door]

AMSEC [Classic Gun Safe]

AMSEC [B Rate Front Load Depository Safe]

ESL by AMSEC

Armor [TL-15 Cash Control Safe]

Art Metal [Class 5 GSA Security Files]

Art Metal [Fire Safe]

Art Metal [Safe Cabinet]

Baum [Old Cast Iron]

Barnes Safe

Browning [Pro-Steel Gun Safe]

BLI Security

Cannon [Gun Safe Model 12]

Cary

Cary [Vault Doors]

Century [2 Hr Fire Safe]

Cincy [B-Rated Cash Storage Safes]

Cole [Double Door Safe Cabinet]

Detroit [Cast Iron Safe]

Diebold [Light Wall Safe]

Diebold [Light Wall, Round Lock, Push Up Lever]

Diebold [Light Wall, w/ Relocking Device]

Diebold [Heavy Wall]

Diebold [Cashgard, Top Opening, Round Door Money Chest]

Diebold [Pressed Steel Safe]

Diebold [Pressed Steel, same as above, 2nd procedure]

Diebold [Jewelers’ Safe]

Diebold [GSA Security File]

Diebold [B Rated Money Chest]

Diebold [Cashgard Square Door Money Chest]

Diebold [Square Door Burglary Safe]

Diebold [TL-30 Cashgard Money Chest]

Diebold [Model 900 Single Bolt Lug Door]

Diebold [Large Fire Safe w/ Inner Money Chest]

Diebold & Kienzle [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Diplomate [Fire Safe, Model MO-130]

EXL [TL-30]

First Alert [Fire Safe, Small Home Model]

Gardall [Model 4820 B-Rate Fire & Burglary]

Gardall [Depository & In-Floor Safes]

Gary [TL-15 Square Door Safe]

Gary [Defiant TRTL-30 Composite Safe]

Gary [Round Door Burglar Chests]

Gary [Combination Unit, Bottom Door]

Gary [TL-Rated Square Door]

Giant [TL-15 “Tuffy”]

Hall [Vault Doors]

Hall’s/HHM [Cast Iron Fire Safe, w/ Yale Lock]

Hall’s/HHM [Cast Iron Fire Safe, w/ Yale Lock]

Harwood Bernardini [TL-30 Money Chest]

Hayman [B Rated Fire Safe]

Hayman [Square Door Floor Safe]

Hermann [In-Floor, Lug Door Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Old Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Model 1926, U.L. Label]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Hamilton Line]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Vault Door, w/ Escape Device]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Money Chest w/ Drop T-Handle]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Round Money Door Chest]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Fire Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Model #1313C]

Invincible [Concealed Safe, Factory Set Combination]

Invincible [Safe-File Cabinet]

Joeli

Knight [Double Door TL-30]

Knight [TL-15 Receiving Chest]

LaGard [2200 Keylock]

LaGard [3600 Digital Lock]

LeFebure [Square Door Burglary Chest]

Liberty/Century

Major [2 Hr Record Safe, Labeled]

Major [“C”-Rate Lift-Out Door]

Major [Inner Compartment Safe] Also known as In-The-Floor Chest

MacNeal & Urban [Older Style]

MacNeal & Urban

MacNeal & Urban [Letter Dial Lock]

Meilink [Home Safe]

Meilink [Modern Pressed Steel Safe w/ Relocking Device, UL Label]

Meilink [Insulated File Cabinet]

Meilink [Insulated File Cabinet w/ Key Plunger Lock]

Meilink [Modern Single Door Safe, UL Label]

Meilink [Double Door Safe w/ Relocker Pin]

Meilink [Double Door Safe]

Meilink [B Rated, Wall Safe]

Meilink [Hercules File Cabinet]

Meilink [Class B, Insulated Record Safe]

Meilink [CSC Series]

Meilink [Small Home & Office Safe]

Meilink [Fire Safe]

Mas-Hamilton [X-08 Dial & Ring]

McGunn [B Rated Double Compartment Safe]

Montgomery Ward [Model 9041]

Morris & Ireland [Cast Iron Safe]

Mosler [Wall Safe Model 8 w/ Fire Resistive Insulation]

Mosler [Wall Safe Model 125-S w/ Fire Resistive Insulation]

Mosler [Round Door Lug Chest]

Mosler Safe [Cast Iron Fire Safe, Heavy Wall Model]

Mosler [Cast Iron Fire Safe, Light Wall Construction]

Mosler [Cast Iron Fire Safe w/ Built-In Money Chest]

Mosler [Round Door Money Chest]

Mosler [Insulated File Cabinet]

Mosler [Insulated Record Container]

Mosler [Fire-Resistive Safe]

Mosler [GSA Security Container]

Mosler [Vault Door, Old Steel Plate Type]

Mosler [Model CD-120 Safe]

Mosler [Old Steel Lined Vault]

Mosler [Double Door Fire Safe]

Mosler [Inner Door]

Mosler-Bahmann [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

National [Combination dial located directly above handle]

National [safe has a T-Handle and Yale dial]

National Security [Gun Safe]

NKL [Fire Safe]

Pittsburgh [Old-line Iron Safe]

Protectall

Remington-Rand [Yale Combination Locks]

Remington-Rand [Insulated File Cabinet w/ Combination Lock]

Remington-Rand [Sargent & Greenleaf Locks]

Remington-Rand [Old Style Yale Linkage Locks]

Remington-Rand, Safe Cabinet, Shaw Walker

Safe-Cabinet Co

Safe-Cabinet Co [Special Model Fire Safe]

Schwab [Old Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Schwab [Media Safe]

Schwab [Double Door Class B Record Safe]

Schwab [Model #1316C]

Sears/Tower [Fire Safe]

Sentry [In-Floor Model #7250] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [Model V560 w/ Digital Lock] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [2 Hr Fire Safe, Model 6560]

Sentry [Model 6560]

Sentry [Survivor]

Sentry [Model A3817] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [Model “D” Safe]

Shaw-Walker [Insulated File Cabinet]

Sisco [Fire Safe Model 1058]

Sisco [Fire Protector w/ Electronic Lock]

Sisco [Model 5054 Fire Safe]

Syracuse [Yale OB Gravity Drop Lever]

Syracuse, Baum, Schwab

Star [Lift Out Safe Door]

Treadlok [Model 90 Classic Long Gun Container]

Tower

U.S. Security [Square Door]

U.S. Security [Model 7100]

Valentine & Butlers [Alum Patent Key Safe]

Victor [Fire-Resistive, Home Treasure Chests]

Victor [Model 600 Safe]

Victor [Money Chests w/ Laminated Doors]

Victor [Old Style Safe]

Victor [Dial w/ T-Lugs]

Wherle [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

York [Round Door Money Chest]

York [w/ Relocker Pin]

York [Old Style, Cast Iron Fire Safe, Heavy Wall]

York [Modern Pressed Steel]

York [Small Fire Safe]

York [Depository Chest w/ Half Door Opening]

York [Old Cast Iron House Safe]

York ,Mosler, Bahmann [w/ Offset Spindles]

York & Diebold [w/ Relocker Device]

[nbk2000]

I've obtained a book about the forcible entry into over a 150 different safes, and below is a list of the safes detailed in the book.

Now, what I'm needing help with is obtaining photographs of the safes listed, so that I can include them in an identification guide that I'm compiling to go with the safe book, as knowing the procedure to get into a particular safe doesn't help you if you don't know what particular model of safe it is you are looking at.

The guide would identify safes by their mounting location (in-floor, wall, stand-alone, vault), size, door style (square, rectangular, round), approximate age (modern, old), type (burglary, fire, data, files), and any external features that would help identify them.

I know such guides already exist, but just try getting a copy from the locksmiths and safe manufacturers who own them, thus I have to recreate the wheel. :mad:

Anyways, below is the list. Anybody who finds any pictures of these safes, e-mail them to me at forumscan@yahoo.com. I'll update the list as I get pictures, to avoid duplication of effort.

Remember that I'm limited to a floppy disk for transfering the pictures off the library computer to my lair, so keep them under 1.4MB, thank you.

Preference is to be given to:

AMSEC
Diebold
Gary
Major
Mosler
Sentry
Star

as all of these are the most commonly used amoung businesses today, with Sentry being the most common home safe.

+++++++++++++++++++

A&B [Depository Safes]

Adesco [Guest Safe Model GS-5EC]

Alpine, Wherle

AMSEC AMVAULT [TL-15 Fire Rated Composite Safe]

AMSEC [U.L. Listed 2 Hr Fire & Impact Safe]

AMSEC [TL-15 Composite Safe]

AMSEC [Wide Body Cash Control Depository Safe [BWB]

AMSEC [B-Rated Front Load Depository Safe]

AMSEC [“C” Rate Lift-Out Safe Door]

AMSEC [Classic Gun Safe]

AMSEC [B Rate Front Load Depository Safe]

ESL by AMSEC

Armor [TL-15 Cash Control Safe]

Art Metal [Class 5 GSA Security Files]

Art Metal [Fire Safe]

Art Metal [Safe Cabinet]

Baum [Old Cast Iron]

Barnes Safe

Browning [Pro-Steel Gun Safe]

BLI Security

Cannon [Gun Safe Model 12]

Cary

Cary [Vault Doors]

Century [2 Hr Fire Safe]

Cincy [B-Rated Cash Storage Safes]

Cole [Double Door Safe Cabinet]

Detroit [Cast Iron Safe]

Diebold [Light Wall Safe]

Diebold [Light Wall, Round Lock, Push Up Lever]

Diebold [Light Wall, w/ Relocking Device]

Diebold [Heavy Wall]

Diebold [Cashgard, Top Opening, Round Door Money Chest]

Diebold [Pressed Steel Safe]

Diebold [Pressed Steel, same as above, 2nd procedure]

Diebold [Jewelers’ Safe]

Diebold [GSA Security File]

Diebold [B Rated Money Chest]

Diebold [Cashgard Square Door Money Chest]

Diebold [Square Door Burglary Safe]

Diebold [TL-30 Cashgard Money Chest]

Diebold [Model 900 Single Bolt Lug Door]

Diebold [Large Fire Safe w/ Inner Money Chest]

Diebold & Kienzle [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Diplomate [Fire Safe, Model MO-130]

EXL [TL-30]

First Alert [Fire Safe, Small Home Model]

Gardall [Model 4820 B-Rate Fire & Burglary]

Gardall [Depository & In-Floor Safes]

Gary [TL-15 Square Door Safe]

Gary [Defiant TRTL-30 Composite Safe]

Gary [Round Door Burglar Chests]

Gary [Combination Unit, Bottom Door]

Gary [TL-Rated Square Door]

Giant [TL-15 “Tuffy”]

Hall [Vault Doors]

Hall’s/HHM [Cast Iron Fire Safe, w/ Yale Lock]

Hall’s/HHM [Cast Iron Fire Safe, w/ Yale Lock]

Harwood Bernardini [TL-30 Money Chest]

Hayman [B Rated Fire Safe]

Hayman [Square Door Floor Safe]

Hermann [In-Floor, Lug Door Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Old Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Model 1926, U.L. Label]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Hamilton Line]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Vault Door, w/ Escape Device]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Money Chest w/ Drop T-Handle]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Round Money Door Chest]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Fire Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Model #1313C]

Invincible [Concealed Safe, Factory Set Combination]

Invincible [Safe-File Cabinet]

Joeli

Knight [Double Door TL-30]

Knight [TL-15 Receiving Chest]

LaGard [2200 Keylock]

LaGard [3600 Digital Lock]

LeFebure [Square Door Burglary Chest]

Liberty/Century

Major [2 Hr Record Safe, Labeled]

Major [“C”-Rate Lift-Out Door]

Major [Inner Compartment Safe] Also known as In-The-Floor Chest

MacNeal & Urban [Older Style]

MacNeal & Urban

MacNeal & Urban [Letter Dial Lock]

Meilink [Home Safe]

Meilink [Modern Pressed Steel Safe w/ Relocking Device, UL Label]

Meilink [Insulated File Cabinet]

Meilink [Insulated File Cabinet w/ Key Plunger Lock]

Meilink [Modern Single Door Safe, UL Label]

Meilink [Double Door Safe w/ Relocker Pin]

Meilink [Double Door Safe]

Meilink [B Rated, Wall Safe]

Meilink [Hercules File Cabinet]

Meilink [Class B, Insulated Record Safe]

Meilink [CSC Series]

Meilink [Small Home & Office Safe]

Meilink [Fire Safe]

Mas-Hamilton [X-08 Dial & Ring]

McGunn [B Rated Double Compartment Safe]

Montgomery Ward [Model 9041]

Morris & Ireland [Cast Iron Safe]

Mosler [Wall Safe Model 8 w/ Fire Resistive Insulation]

Mosler [Wall Safe Model 125-S w/ Fire Resistive Insulation]

Mosler [Round Door Lug Chest]

Mosler Safe [Cast Iron Fire Safe, Heavy Wall Model]

Mosler [Cast Iron Fire Safe, Light Wall Construction]

Mosler [Cast Iron Fire Safe w/ Built-In Money Chest]

Mosler [Round Door Money Chest]

Mosler [Insulated File Cabinet]

Mosler [Insulated Record Container]

Mosler [Fire-Resistive Safe]

Mosler [GSA Security Container]

Mosler [Vault Door, Old Steel Plate Type]

Mosler [Model CD-120 Safe]

Mosler [Old Steel Lined Vault]

Mosler [Double Door Fire Safe]

Mosler [Inner Door]

Mosler-Bahmann [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

National [Combination dial located directly above handle]

National [safe has a T-Handle and Yale dial]

National Security [Gun Safe]

NKL [Fire Safe]

Pittsburgh [Old-line Iron Safe]

Protectall

Remington-Rand [Yale Combination Locks]

Remington-Rand [Insulated File Cabinet w/ Combination Lock]

Remington-Rand [Sargent & Greenleaf Locks]

Remington-Rand [Old Style Yale Linkage Locks]

Remington-Rand, Safe Cabinet, Shaw Walker

Safe-Cabinet Co

Safe-Cabinet Co [Special Model Fire Safe]

Schwab [Old Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Schwab [Media Safe]

Schwab [Double Door Class B Record Safe]

Schwab [Model #1316C]

Sears/Tower [Fire Safe]

Sentry [In-Floor Model #7250] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [Model V560 w/ Digital Lock] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [2 Hr Fire Safe, Model 6560]

Sentry [Model 6560]

Sentry [Survivor]

Sentry [Model A3817] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [Model “D” Safe]

Shaw-Walker [Insulated File Cabinet]

Sisco [Fire Safe Model 1058]

Sisco [Fire Protector w/ Electronic Lock]

Sisco [Model 5054 Fire Safe]

Syracuse [Yale OB Gravity Drop Lever]

Syracuse, Baum, Schwab

Star [Lift Out Safe Door]

Treadlok [Model 90 Classic Long Gun Container]

Tower

U.S. Security [Square Door]

U.S. Security [Model 7100]

Valentine & Butlers [Alum Patent Key Safe]

Victor [Fire-Resistive, Home Treasure Chests]

Victor [Model 600 Safe]

Victor [Money Chests w/ Laminated Doors]

Victor [Old Style Safe]

Victor [Dial w/ T-Lugs]

Wherle [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

York [Round Door Money Chest]

York [w/ Relocker Pin]

York [Old Style, Cast Iron Fire Safe, Heavy Wall]

York [Modern Pressed Steel]

York [Small Fire Safe]

York [Depository Chest w/ Half Door Opening]

York [Old Cast Iron House Safe]

York ,Mosler, Bahmann [w/ Offset Spindles]

York & Diebold [w/ Relocker Device]

[nbk2000]

I've obtained a book about the forcible entry into over a 150 different safes, and below is a list of the safes detailed in the book.

Now, what I'm needing help with is obtaining photographs of the safes listed, so that I can include them in an identification guide that I'm compiling to go with the safe book, as knowing the procedure to get into a particular safe doesn't help you if you don't know what particular model of safe it is you are looking at.

The guide would identify safes by their mounting location (in-floor, wall, stand-alone, vault), size, door style (square, rectangular, round), approximate age (modern, old), type (burglary, fire, data, files), and any external features that would help identify them.

I know such guides already exist, but just try getting a copy from the locksmiths and safe manufacturers who own them, thus I have to recreate the wheel. :mad:

Anyways, below is the list. Anybody who finds any pictures of these safes, e-mail them to me at forumscan@yahoo.com. I'll update the list as I get pictures, to avoid duplication of effort.

Remember that I'm limited to a floppy disk for transfering the pictures off the library computer to my lair, so keep them under 1.4MB, thank you.

Preference is to be given to:

AMSEC
Diebold
Gary
Major
Mosler
Sentry
Star

as all of these are the most commonly used amoung businesses today, with Sentry being the most common home safe.

+++++++++++++++++++

A&B [Depository Safes]

Adesco [Guest Safe Model GS-5EC]

Alpine, Wherle

AMSEC AMVAULT [TL-15 Fire Rated Composite Safe]

AMSEC [U.L. Listed 2 Hr Fire & Impact Safe]

AMSEC [TL-15 Composite Safe]

AMSEC [Wide Body Cash Control Depository Safe [BWB]

AMSEC [B-Rated Front Load Depository Safe]

AMSEC [“C” Rate Lift-Out Safe Door]

AMSEC [Classic Gun Safe]

AMSEC [B Rate Front Load Depository Safe]

ESL by AMSEC

Armor [TL-15 Cash Control Safe]

Art Metal [Class 5 GSA Security Files]

Art Metal [Fire Safe]

Art Metal [Safe Cabinet]

Baum [Old Cast Iron]

Barnes Safe

Browning [Pro-Steel Gun Safe]

BLI Security

Cannon [Gun Safe Model 12]

Cary

Cary [Vault Doors]

Century [2 Hr Fire Safe]

Cincy [B-Rated Cash Storage Safes]

Cole [Double Door Safe Cabinet]

Detroit [Cast Iron Safe]

Diebold [Light Wall Safe]

Diebold [Light Wall, Round Lock, Push Up Lever]

Diebold [Light Wall, w/ Relocking Device]

Diebold [Heavy Wall]

Diebold [Cashgard, Top Opening, Round Door Money Chest]

Diebold [Pressed Steel Safe]

Diebold [Pressed Steel, same as above, 2nd procedure]

Diebold [Jewelers’ Safe]

Diebold [GSA Security File]

Diebold [B Rated Money Chest]

Diebold [Cashgard Square Door Money Chest]

Diebold [Square Door Burglary Safe]

Diebold [TL-30 Cashgard Money Chest]

Diebold [Model 900 Single Bolt Lug Door]

Diebold [Large Fire Safe w/ Inner Money Chest]

Diebold & Kienzle [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Diplomate [Fire Safe, Model MO-130]

EXL [TL-30]

First Alert [Fire Safe, Small Home Model]

Gardall [Model 4820 B-Rate Fire & Burglary]

Gardall [Depository & In-Floor Safes]

Gary [TL-15 Square Door Safe]

Gary [Defiant TRTL-30 Composite Safe]

Gary [Round Door Burglar Chests]

Gary [Combination Unit, Bottom Door]

Gary [TL-Rated Square Door]

Giant [TL-15 “Tuffy”]

Hall [Vault Doors]

Hall’s/HHM [Cast Iron Fire Safe, w/ Yale Lock]

Hall’s/HHM [Cast Iron Fire Safe, w/ Yale Lock]

Harwood Bernardini [TL-30 Money Chest]

Hayman [B Rated Fire Safe]

Hayman [Square Door Floor Safe]

Hermann [In-Floor, Lug Door Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Old Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Model 1926, U.L. Label]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Hamilton Line]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Vault Door, w/ Escape Device]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Money Chest w/ Drop T-Handle]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Round Money Door Chest]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Fire Safe]

Herring-Hall-Marvin [Model #1313C]

Invincible [Concealed Safe, Factory Set Combination]

Invincible [Safe-File Cabinet]

Joeli

Knight [Double Door TL-30]

Knight [TL-15 Receiving Chest]

LaGard [2200 Keylock]

LaGard [3600 Digital Lock]

LeFebure [Square Door Burglary Chest]

Liberty/Century

Major [2 Hr Record Safe, Labeled]

Major [“C”-Rate Lift-Out Door]

Major [Inner Compartment Safe] Also known as In-The-Floor Chest

MacNeal & Urban [Older Style]

MacNeal & Urban

MacNeal & Urban [Letter Dial Lock]

Meilink [Home Safe]

Meilink [Modern Pressed Steel Safe w/ Relocking Device, UL Label]

Meilink [Insulated File Cabinet]

Meilink [Insulated File Cabinet w/ Key Plunger Lock]

Meilink [Modern Single Door Safe, UL Label]

Meilink [Double Door Safe w/ Relocker Pin]

Meilink [Double Door Safe]

Meilink [B Rated, Wall Safe]

Meilink [Hercules File Cabinet]

Meilink [Class B, Insulated Record Safe]

Meilink [CSC Series]

Meilink [Small Home & Office Safe]

Meilink [Fire Safe]

Mas-Hamilton [X-08 Dial & Ring]

McGunn [B Rated Double Compartment Safe]

Montgomery Ward [Model 9041]

Morris & Ireland [Cast Iron Safe]

Mosler [Wall Safe Model 8 w/ Fire Resistive Insulation]

Mosler [Wall Safe Model 125-S w/ Fire Resistive Insulation]

Mosler [Round Door Lug Chest]

Mosler Safe [Cast Iron Fire Safe, Heavy Wall Model]

Mosler [Cast Iron Fire Safe, Light Wall Construction]

Mosler [Cast Iron Fire Safe w/ Built-In Money Chest]

Mosler [Round Door Money Chest]

Mosler [Insulated File Cabinet]

Mosler [Insulated Record Container]

Mosler [Fire-Resistive Safe]

Mosler [GSA Security Container]

Mosler [Vault Door, Old Steel Plate Type]

Mosler [Model CD-120 Safe]

Mosler [Old Steel Lined Vault]

Mosler [Double Door Fire Safe]

Mosler [Inner Door]

Mosler-Bahmann [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

National [Combination dial located directly above handle]

National [safe has a T-Handle and Yale dial]

National Security [Gun Safe]

NKL [Fire Safe]

Pittsburgh [Old-line Iron Safe]

Protectall

Remington-Rand [Yale Combination Locks]

Remington-Rand [Insulated File Cabinet w/ Combination Lock]

Remington-Rand [Sargent & Greenleaf Locks]

Remington-Rand [Old Style Yale Linkage Locks]

Remington-Rand, Safe Cabinet, Shaw Walker

Safe-Cabinet Co

Safe-Cabinet Co [Special Model Fire Safe]

Schwab [Old Cast Iron Fire Safe]

Schwab [Media Safe]

Schwab [Double Door Class B Record Safe]

Schwab [Model #1316C]

Sears/Tower [Fire Safe]

Sentry [In-Floor Model #7250] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [Model V560 w/ Digital Lock] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [2 Hr Fire Safe, Model 6560]

Sentry [Model 6560]

Sentry [Survivor]

Sentry [Model A3817] [Already Have Picture]

Sentry [Model “D” Safe]

Shaw-Walker [Insulated File Cabinet]

Sisco [Fire Safe Model 1058]

Sisco [Fire Protector w/ Electronic Lock]

Sisco [Model 5054 Fire Safe]

Syracuse [Yale OB Gravity Drop Lever]

Syracuse, Baum, Schwab

Star [Lift Out Safe Door]

Treadlok [Model 90 Classic Long Gun Container]

Tower

U.S. Security [Square Door]

U.S. Security [Model 7100]

Valentine & Butlers [Alum Patent Key Safe]

Victor [Fire-Resistive, Home Treasure Chests]

Victor [Model 600 Safe]

Victor [Money Chests w/ Laminated Doors]

Victor [Old Style Safe]

Victor [Dial w/ T-Lugs]

Wherle [Cast Iron Fire Safe]

York [Round Door Money Chest]

York [w/ Relocker Pin]

York [Old Style, Cast Iron Fire Safe, Heavy Wall]

York [Modern Pressed Steel]

York [Small Fire Safe]

York [Depository Chest w/ Half Door Opening]

York [Old Cast Iron House Safe]

York ,Mosler, Bahmann [w/ Offset Spindles]

York & Diebold [w/ Relocker Device]

[megalomania]

You may want to try hitting up the manufacturers for product catalogs. Check out the Thomas Register for security supplies... http://www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/security_equipment_supplies/safes_0000541_1.html

[megalomania]

You may want to try hitting up the manufacturers for product catalogs. Check out the Thomas Register for security supplies... http://www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/security_equipment_supplies/safes_0000541_1.html

[megalomania]

You may want to try hitting up the manufacturers for product catalogs. Check out the Thomas Register for security supplies... http://www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/security_equipment_supplies/safes_0000541_1.html

[NightStalker]

I've got several of those already, but a lot of the pictures would be unusable for NBK's purposes, being line-art drawings. :(

[NightStalker]

I've got several of those already, but a lot of the pictures would be unusable for NBK's purposes, being line-art drawings. :(

[NightStalker]

I've got several of those already, but a lot of the pictures would be unusable for NBK's purposes, being line-art drawings. :(

[shady mutha]

NBK that sounds like a good book. If I may ask what do the entry techniques mainly consist of ? Not the old drill and read the wheel pack I hope. The few books I have seen on the subject are pretty bad or expect you to have very expensive equipment .
Here in Aust the main brand of safe is " Chubb" these safes are extremely difficult to gain entry to - damn near impossible to open without a lot of manpower. I have seen the thickness on some of these safe doors during opening hours and I estimate the thickness on a "big money" safe to be 7- 10 inches thick. They are very daunting even to look at. I am quite sure that even with proper tools and knowledge your still in for a long night.
I believe that to get at the "big money" you need a crew. Which is bad as you need to trust people who cant be trusted to mind a dog. For a start you need a lookout so you can at least escape if something goes wrong. Plus someone to take turns maning the heavy equipment. A hour or two drilling as hard as you can is hard yakka. Good luck with the project.

[shady mutha]

NBK that sounds like a good book. If I may ask what do the entry techniques mainly consist of ? Not the old drill and read the wheel pack I hope. The few books I have seen on the subject are pretty bad or expect you to have very expensive equipment .
Here in Aust the main brand of safe is " Chubb" these safes are extremely difficult to gain entry to - damn near impossible to open without a lot of manpower. I have seen the thickness on some of these safe doors during opening hours and I estimate the thickness on a "big money" safe to be 7- 10 inches thick. They are very daunting even to look at. I am quite sure that even with proper tools and knowledge your still in for a long night.
I believe that to get at the "big money" you need a crew. Which is bad as you need to trust people who cant be trusted to mind a dog. For a start you need a lookout so you can at least escape if something goes wrong. Plus someone to take turns maning the heavy equipment. A hour or two drilling as hard as you can is hard yakka. Good luck with the project.

[shady mutha]

NBK that sounds like a good book. If I may ask what do the entry techniques mainly consist of ? Not the old drill and read the wheel pack I hope. The few books I have seen on the subject are pretty bad or expect you to have very expensive equipment .
Here in Aust the main brand of safe is " Chubb" these safes are extremely difficult to gain entry to - damn near impossible to open without a lot of manpower. I have seen the thickness on some of these safe doors during opening hours and I estimate the thickness on a "big money" safe to be 7- 10 inches thick. They are very daunting even to look at. I am quite sure that even with proper tools and knowledge your still in for a long night.
I believe that to get at the "big money" you need a crew. Which is bad as you need to trust people who cant be trusted to mind a dog. For a start you need a lookout so you can at least escape if something goes wrong. Plus someone to take turns maning the heavy equipment. A hour or two drilling as hard as you can is hard yakka. Good luck with the project.

[nbk2000]

There's really only a few ways of getting into any safe that has anything worth stealing:

1) Explosives (naturally! :D)

2) Drilling and Scoping (the most common)

3) Manipulation (combo recovery)

4) Physical destruction (torch/grinder/sledge/etc)

Yes, most of the techniques in the book are 'drill and scope', but that's because it's the most expediant way of doing it that doesn't use explosives or destroys the safe beyond repair.

Remember, most real security safes are VERY expensive, over US$10,000, so destroying them beyond repair is the LAST resort in case of an accidential lockout, which is why books written for safemen don't detail techniques that cause the irrepairable destruction of such valuable investments.

Besides, drilling and scoping are very practical for thieves, as it greatly reduces the equipment and time on-site, compared to ripping the safe apart, and saying nothing of the noise and risk of explosive destruction.

The secret, of course, is knowing where to drill. Drill in the wrong spot, and you've got relockers, hard-plate, and tempered glass shatter locks to deal with. Drill in the right spot, and you bypass all that shit. :p

Naturally, the safes used by jewelers and bullion dealers are very tough nuts to crack, which is why the best bypass for those is to snatch up the people who know the combos and forcing them to open up the goody vaults. Keep it simple. :)

As per "RTPB 10% Investment", you're forced to obtain expensive tools to break into decent safes, as your typical Home-Depot tool set isn't even going to scratch the paint of the safe!

Exothermic lances, diamond core drills, magnetic drill mounts...etc. Very expensive, but required.

Not to worry though, I'm writting a detailed article about the process, and it'll have plenty of pictures and videos. :)

The exceptions to the expensive tool investment are the typical home safes, which are usually destroyable by mere hand tools or cheap drills. The Sentry electronic 'safes' are so lame you don't even need a tool, just the battery pack from the lock connected to the two wires hidden in the lock case. :rolleyes:

[nbk2000]

There's really only a few ways of getting into any safe that has anything worth stealing:

1) Explosives (naturally! :D)

2) Drilling and Scoping (the most common)

3) Manipulation (combo recovery)

4) Physical destruction (torch/grinder/sledge/etc)

Yes, most of the techniques in the book are 'drill and scope', but that's because it's the most expediant way of doing it that doesn't use explosives or destroys the safe beyond repair.

Remember, most real security safes are VERY expensive, over US$10,000, so destroying them beyond repair is the LAST resort in case of an accidential lockout, which is why books written for safemen don't detail techniques that cause the irrepairable destruction of such valuable investments.

Besides, drilling and scoping are very practical for thieves, as it greatly reduces the equipment and time on-site, compared to ripping the safe apart, and saying nothing of the noise and risk of explosive destruction.

The secret, of course, is knowing where to drill. Drill in the wrong spot, and you've got relockers, hard-plate, and tempered glass shatter locks to deal with. Drill in the right spot, and you bypass all that shit. :p

Naturally, the safes used by jewelers and bullion dealers are very tough nuts to crack, which is why the best bypass for those is to snatch up the people who know the combos and forcing them to open up the goody vaults. Keep it simple. :)

As per "RTPB 10% Investment", you're forced to obtain expensive tools to break into decent safes, as your typical Home-Depot tool set isn't even going to scratch the paint of the safe!

Exothermic lances, diamond core drills, magnetic drill mounts...etc. Very expensive, but required.

Not to worry though, I'm writting a detailed article about the process, and it'll have plenty of pictures and videos. :)

The exceptions to the expensive tool investment are the typical home safes, which are usually destroyable by mere hand tools or cheap drills. The Sentry electronic 'safes' are so lame you don't even need a tool, just the battery pack from the lock connected to the two wires hidden in the lock case. :rolleyes:

[nbk2000]

There's really only a few ways of getting into any safe that has anything worth stealing:

1) Explosives (naturally! :D)

2) Drilling and Scoping (the most common)

3) Manipulation (combo recovery)

4) Physical destruction (torch/grinder/sledge/etc)

Yes, most of the techniques in the book are 'drill and scope', but that's because it's the most expediant way of doing it that doesn't use explosives or destroys the safe beyond repair.

Remember, most real security safes are VERY expensive, over US$10,000, so destroying them beyond repair is the LAST resort in case of an accidential lockout, which is why books written for safemen don't detail techniques that cause the irrepairable destruction of such valuable investments.

Besides, drilling and scoping are very practical for thieves, as it greatly reduces the equipment and time on-site, compared to ripping the safe apart, and saying nothing of the noise and risk of explosive destruction.

The secret, of course, is knowing where to drill. Drill in the wrong spot, and you've got relockers, hard-plate, and tempered glass shatter locks to deal with. Drill in the right spot, and you bypass all that shit. :p

Naturally, the safes used by jewelers and bullion dealers are very tough nuts to crack, which is why the best bypass for those is to snatch up the people who know the combos and forcing them to open up the goody vaults. Keep it simple. :)

As per "RTPB 10% Investment", you're forced to obtain expensive tools to break into decent safes, as your typical Home-Depot tool set isn't even going to scratch the paint of the safe!

Exothermic lances, diamond core drills, magnetic drill mounts...etc. Very expensive, but required.

Not to worry though, I'm writting a detailed article about the process, and it'll have plenty of pictures and videos. :)

The exceptions to the expensive tool investment are the typical home safes, which are usually destroyable by mere hand tools or cheap drills. The Sentry electronic 'safes' are so lame you don't even need a tool, just the battery pack from the lock connected to the two wires hidden in the lock case. :rolleyes:

[shady mutha]

Sounds like a interesting article and look forward to reading you thoughts on the subject. :)
A interesting robbery that happed just yesterday a "criminal" gang broke into a shopping centre a ripped open the ATM using a " jaws of life" type device.
The article is still availible for another three days or so.
Go to www.news.com.au Scroll down down to where it says " our newspapers" on the left hand side. Go to "The Courier Mail for 28th march.
Very nice :)
People have been ripping off ATMs here all over the county lately. The best one I read abount ( you might still be able to read the story yourself go to the same news site but the Daily Telegraph is the paper) these guy forklifed 2 ATMs straight onto a truck. The interesting part was the cops found the truck and the empty safes just I few hours later, so they opened those pretty quickly.
Others are just tearing them out where they find them,pretty much destroying the entire place.
Always a "gang" though. You need a lot of hands for this type of raid.
No one has been caught and they dont look like being caught.
Pretty hard these days for a one man band. :D
Hope you include a few brute force methods :D just for fun.
That seems to be the trend around at the moment.
Todays alarms make the entry to the place just a important if not more so.
No one is stupid enough to have just the standard landline anymore. If fact cutting phone lines now brings the cops just about everytime. So its no more just cutting a line and waiting a bit, you have to beat the sensors, or avoid them :eek: not easy.
Picking locks is not like it used to be. :mad: Houses are the same but who wants to get into a house. :rolleyes:
I think as long as you plan it right and have the will to carry it out your chances are good.
But its also very easy to plan things out in your mind, but in the physical would things are VERY different. Best to do few dry runs

[shady mutha]

Sounds like a interesting article and look forward to reading you thoughts on the subject. :)
A interesting robbery that happed just yesterday a "criminal" gang broke into a shopping centre a ripped open the ATM using a " jaws of life" type device.
The article is still availible for another three days or so.
Go to www.news.com.au Scroll down down to where it says " our newspapers" on the left hand side. Go to "The Courier Mail for 28th march.
Very nice :)
People have been ripping off ATMs here all over the county lately. The best one I read abount ( you might still be able to read the story yourself go to the same news site but the Daily Telegraph is the paper) these guy forklifed 2 ATMs straight onto a truck. The interesting part was the cops found the truck and the empty safes just I few hours later, so they opened those pretty quickly.
Others are just tearing them out where they find them,pretty much destroying the entire place.
Always a "gang" though. You need a lot of hands for this type of raid.
No one has been caught and they dont look like being caught.
Pretty hard these days for a one man band. :D
Hope you include a few brute force methods :D just for fun.
That seems to be the trend around at the moment.
Todays alarms make the entry to the place just a important if not more so.
No one is stupid enough to have just the standard landline anymore. If fact cutting phone lines now brings the cops just about everytime. So its no more just cutting a line and waiting a bit, you have to beat the sensors, or avoid them :eek: not easy.
Picking locks is not like it used to be. :mad: Houses are the same but who wants to get into a house. :rolleyes:
I think as long as you plan it right and have the will to carry it out your chances are good.
But its also very easy to plan things out in your mind, but in the physical would things are VERY different. Best to do few dry runs

[shady mutha]

Sounds like a interesting article and look forward to reading you thoughts on the subject. :)
A interesting robbery that happed just yesterday a "criminal" gang broke into a shopping centre a ripped open the ATM using a " jaws of life" type device.
The article is still availible for another three days or so.
Go to www.news.com.au Scroll down down to where it says " our newspapers" on the left hand side. Go to "The Courier Mail for 28th march.
Very nice :)
People have been ripping off ATMs here all over the county lately. The best one I read abount ( you might still be able to read the story yourself go to the same news site but the Daily Telegraph is the paper) these guy forklifed 2 ATMs straight onto a truck. The interesting part was the cops found the truck and the empty safes just I few hours later, so they opened those pretty quickly.
Others are just tearing them out where they find them,pretty much destroying the entire place.
Always a "gang" though. You need a lot of hands for this type of raid.
No one has been caught and they dont look like being caught.
Pretty hard these days for a one man band. :D
Hope you include a few brute force methods :D just for fun.
That seems to be the trend around at the moment.
Todays alarms make the entry to the place just a important if not more so.
No one is stupid enough to have just the standard landline anymore. If fact cutting phone lines now brings the cops just about everytime. So its no more just cutting a line and waiting a bit, you have to beat the sensors, or avoid them :eek: not easy.
Picking locks is not like it used to be. :mad: Houses are the same but who wants to get into a house. :rolleyes:
I think as long as you plan it right and have the will to carry it out your chances are good.
But its also very easy to plan things out in your mind, but in the physical would things are VERY different. Best to do few dry runs

[bipolar]

I have an old sentry elctronic safe from a long time ago. I haven't been able to get into it for like 5 years, forgot the combo. I think its got some porn in it or something from along time ago. I paid like $250 bucks for that piece of shit. I can't believe they can even sell that shit as a safe. Maybe I can modify it to be harder to open or something. I dont know.

NBK, is there anything else I need to know to open it?

[bipolar]

I have an old sentry elctronic safe from a long time ago. I haven't been able to get into it for like 5 years, forgot the combo. I think its got some porn in it or something from along time ago. I paid like $250 bucks for that piece of shit. I can't believe they can even sell that shit as a safe. Maybe I can modify it to be harder to open or something. I dont know.

NBK, is there anything else I need to know to open it?

[bipolar]

I have an old sentry elctronic safe from a long time ago. I haven't been able to get into it for like 5 years, forgot the combo. I think its got some porn in it or something from along time ago. I paid like $250 bucks for that piece of shit. I can't believe they can even sell that shit as a safe. Maybe I can modify it to be harder to open or something. I dont know.

NBK, is there anything else I need to know to open it?

[akinrog]

This link (http://money.howstuffworks.com/safecracking.htm) gives basics of the safe cracking. As you said drilling at the right location is tricky. But for a long time, I have been thinking of feasibility of using a plasma cutter over the safe. Tte plasma cutters produces very high temperatures, maybe it's more convenient to use a plasma cutter than drilling.

[akinrog]

This link (http://money.howstuffworks.com/safecracking.htm) gives basics of the safe cracking. As you said drilling at the right location is tricky. But for a long time, I have been thinking of feasibility of using a plasma cutter over the safe. Tte plasma cutters produces very high temperatures, maybe it's more convenient to use a plasma cutter than drilling.

[akinrog]

This link (http://money.howstuffworks.com/safecracking.htm) gives basics of the safe cracking. As you said drilling at the right location is tricky. But for a long time, I have been thinking of feasibility of using a plasma cutter over the safe. Tte plasma cutters produces very high temperatures, maybe it's more convenient to use a plasma cutter than drilling.

[shady mutha]

The main flaw with the drill and read technique is proper money safes often have 2 combo locks and 2 key locks. So reading the combo still wont guarantee a entry.
If your a well funded person I think buying the type of safe you want entry to is probably the best way to go. At least you can get a better mental and physical picture of what needs to be done.
Also when your looking at safes from a distance they often look a lot smaller and easier than they actually are.
I also believe it very easy to leave behind DNA on this type of job.
All the sweating and hard work.

[shady mutha]

The main flaw with the drill and read technique is proper money safes often have 2 combo locks and 2 key locks. So reading the combo still wont guarantee a entry.
If your a well funded person I think buying the type of safe you want entry to is probably the best way to go. At least you can get a better mental and physical picture of what needs to be done.
Also when your looking at safes from a distance they often look a lot smaller and easier than they actually are.
I also believe it very easy to leave behind DNA on this type of job.
All the sweating and hard work.

[shady mutha]

The main flaw with the drill and read technique is proper money safes often have 2 combo locks and 2 key locks. So reading the combo still wont guarantee a entry.
If your a well funded person I think buying the type of safe you want entry to is probably the best way to go. At least you can get a better mental and physical picture of what needs to be done.
Also when your looking at safes from a distance they often look a lot smaller and easier than they actually are.
I also believe it very easy to leave behind DNA on this type of job.
All the sweating and hard work.

[nbk2000]

Bipolar, if you give me a model number, I 'll e-mail you the technique. :)

Plasma cutters are very effective at cutting metal, but then you have the problem of the fusible link relockers, which better safes have. Get the safe hot enough to cut the steel, the links melt and the relockers trip. Also, intense heat breaks the tempered glass.

Safebreaking isn't just having the tools, but also the skills and the knowledge of where to cut.

Yes, I'll include brute-force methods.

Cutting land-line may bring the cops, but if the breaks are intermittent, and repeated, human nature can be counted on to make the cops ignore the alarm eventually.

Then, once the pork are tired of the 'false' alarms, you go in, cut the landline and use a cellular jammer to disable that too. :)

Of course, before I can finish the guide, I need the pictures, which I need people to find and send to me, because, as you can see, I don't get online very often now-a-days. :(

A technique I've thought of to get the experience needed, legally, would be to offer free content recovery in exchange for the safe. If the safe is something high-end, it'll costs thousands of dollars to open, and the contents may be worth much more than that, so it's a good deal for them and you get a free specimen to keep for future work upon.

If that doesn't get you the desired traffic, you can offer content recovery for free. :)

'Course, since you don't really know what you're doing, you'll trash the safe in the process of opening it, but that's what they get for being cheap-asses :p and you gain valuable experience. :)

All this presupposes that you live in a large metropolitan area where you could expect such a thing to work, like Los Angeles or New York.

[nbk2000]

Bipolar, if you give me a model number, I 'll e-mail you the technique. :)

Plasma cutters are very effective at cutting metal, but then you have the problem of the fusible link relockers, which better safes have. Get the safe hot enough to cut the steel, the links melt and the relockers trip. Also, intense heat breaks the tempered glass.

Safebreaking isn't just having the tools, but also the skills and the knowledge of where to cut.

Yes, I'll include brute-force methods.

Cutting land-line may bring the cops, but if the breaks are intermittent, and repeated, human nature can be counted on to make the cops ignore the alarm eventually.

Then, once the pork are tired of the 'false' alarms, you go in, cut the landline and use a cellular jammer to disable that too. :)

Of course, before I can finish the guide, I need the pictures, which I need people to find and send to me, because, as you can see, I don't get online very often now-a-days. :(

A technique I've thought of to get the experience needed, legally, would be to offer free content recovery in exchange for the safe. If the safe is something high-end, it'll costs thousands of dollars to open, and the contents may be worth much more than that, so it's a good deal for them and you get a free specimen to keep for future work upon.

If that doesn't get you the desired traffic, you can offer content recovery for free. :)

'Course, since you don't really know what you're doing, you'll trash the safe in the process of opening it, but that's what they get for being cheap-asses :p and you gain valuable experience. :)

All this presupposes that you live in a large metropolitan area where you could expect such a thing to work, like Los Angeles or New York.

[nbk2000]

Bipolar, if you give me a model number, I 'll e-mail you the technique. :)

Plasma cutters are very effective at cutting metal, but then you have the problem of the fusible link relockers, which better safes have. Get the safe hot enough to cut the steel, the links melt and the relockers trip. Also, intense heat breaks the tempered glass.

Safebreaking isn't just having the tools, but also the skills and the knowledge of where to cut.

Yes, I'll include brute-force methods.

Cutting land-line may bring the cops, but if the breaks are intermittent, and repeated, human nature can be counted on to make the cops ignore the alarm eventually.

Then, once the pork are tired of the 'false' alarms, you go in, cut the landline and use a cellular jammer to disable that too. :)

Of course, before I can finish the guide, I need the pictures, which I need people to find and send to me, because, as you can see, I don't get online very often now-a-days. :(

A technique I've thought of to get the experience needed, legally, would be to offer free content recovery in exchange for the safe. If the safe is something high-end, it'll costs thousands of dollars to open, and the contents may be worth much more than that, so it's a good deal for them and you get a free specimen to keep for future work upon.

If that doesn't get you the desired traffic, you can offer content recovery for free. :)

'Course, since you don't really know what you're doing, you'll trash the safe in the process of opening it, but that's what they get for being cheap-asses :p and you gain valuable experience. :)

All this presupposes that you live in a large metropolitan area where you could expect such a thing to work, like Los Angeles or New York.

[Jacks Complete]

Bipolar,

It cost you $250, it has kept you out for five years, and you are complaining it isn't secure enough?? :rolleyes:

NBK,

there are lots of locksmiths doing drilling for content recovery for thousands of dollars, but those are the rare jobs, most of the time they pick the lock, manipulate it, or use some other non-destructive method to avoid having to replace a large expensive safe that is built in to the wall.

[Jacks Complete]

Bipolar,

It cost you $250, it has kept you out for five years, and you are complaining it isn't secure enough?? :rolleyes:

NBK,

there are lots of locksmiths doing drilling for content recovery for thousands of dollars, but those are the rare jobs, most of the time they pick the lock, manipulate it, or use some other non-destructive method to avoid having to replace a large expensive safe that is built in to the wall.

[Jacks Complete]

Bipolar,

It cost you $250, it has kept you out for five years, and you are complaining it isn't secure enough?? :rolleyes:

NBK,

there are lots of locksmiths doing drilling for content recovery for thousands of dollars, but those are the rare jobs, most of the time they pick the lock, manipulate it, or use some other non-destructive method to avoid having to replace a large expensive safe that is built in to the wall.

[nbk2000]

Oh, it describes other methods besides drilling, if feasible.

[nbk2000]

Oh, it describes other methods besides drilling, if feasible.

[nbk2000]

Oh, it describes other methods besides drilling, if feasible.

[shady mutha]

I could get some photos of safes, but I dont think any useful intel could be gleaned from a photo. I know where there is a building up for lease that used to be a bank. The walk in vault is wide open and visible from the window. This is one bad mutha.
Some new ATMs I have seen lately with are Diebold brand these ones are made in Scotland are controled by electronic keypad. The old sly camera trick might be workable here. Main problem with filming is the damn batterys dont last long enough. Add more battery and the package is to big and cant be hidden properly.

[shady mutha]

I could get some photos of safes, but I dont think any useful intel could be gleaned from a photo. I know where there is a building up for lease that used to be a bank. The walk in vault is wide open and visible from the window. This is one bad mutha.
Some new ATMs I have seen lately with are Diebold brand these ones are made in Scotland are controled by electronic keypad. The old sly camera trick might be workable here. Main problem with filming is the damn batterys dont last long enough. Add more battery and the package is to big and cant be hidden properly.

[shady mutha]

I could get some photos of safes, but I dont think any useful intel could be gleaned from a photo. I know where there is a building up for lease that used to be a bank. The walk in vault is wide open and visible from the window. This is one bad mutha.
Some new ATMs I have seen lately with are Diebold brand these ones are made in Scotland are controled by electronic keypad. The old sly camera trick might be workable here. Main problem with filming is the damn batterys dont last long enough. Add more battery and the package is to big and cant be hidden properly.

[Jacks Complete]

Mutha, You can always run a wire to a second battery pack, or use a PIR to detect people, then turn on the cameras power.

NBK, that's good. Drilling takes a lot longer than most other methods, and is noisier for longer than most methods.

[Jacks Complete]

Mutha, You can always run a wire to a second battery pack, or use a PIR to detect people, then turn on the cameras power.

NBK, that's good. Drilling takes a lot longer than most other methods, and is noisier for longer than most methods.

[Jacks Complete]

Mutha, You can always run a wire to a second battery pack, or use a PIR to detect people, then turn on the cameras power.

NBK, that's good. Drilling takes a lot longer than most other methods, and is noisier for longer than most methods.

[nbk2000]

One of the largest alarm and vault manufacturers in the U.S. discovered a costly mistake a few years ago. Vaults and safes are routinely certified for the time documents will survive undamaged in a fire—itself specified by temperature and type (oil, structural, electrical, etc.).

They had developed a new composite material that was very resistant to cutting, drilling, burning, etc. Extensive tests had been conducted with cutting tools of all sorts including exothermic burning bars, drilling with mechanical drills and hypervelocity air-abrasive drills, etc.

Based on these results, they guaranteed their safes and vaults made of the new material would provide a specified minimum time for penetration.

What they had overlooked was that linear cutting charges (shaped charges) that were widely used in the oil industry for cutting oil well casings and in the demolition business for slicing building supports to bring down buildings could be used to cut out a panel from the side of a safe or vault in milliseconds instead of requiring hours.

The safe and vault company had measured the resistance of their product to the attacks they anticipated would be used against them. The robbers used an entirely unexpected means to open the vault—and the company paid dearly for their oversight.

[nbk2000]

One of the largest alarm and vault manufacturers in the U.S. discovered a costly mistake a few years ago. Vaults and safes are routinely certified for the time documents will survive undamaged in a fire—itself specified by temperature and type (oil, structural, electrical, etc.).

They had developed a new composite material that was very resistant to cutting, drilling, burning, etc. Extensive tests had been conducted with cutting tools of all sorts including exothermic burning bars, drilling with mechanical drills and hypervelocity air-abrasive drills, etc.

Based on these results, they guaranteed their safes and vaults made of the new material would provide a specified minimum time for penetration.

What they had overlooked was that linear cutting charges (shaped charges) that were widely used in the oil industry for cutting oil well casings and in the demolition business for slicing building supports to bring down buildings could be used to cut out a panel from the side of a safe or vault in milliseconds instead of requiring hours.

The safe and vault company had measured the resistance of their product to the attacks they anticipated would be used against them. The robbers used an entirely unexpected means to open the vault—and the company paid dearly for their oversight.

[kld1648temp]

When it comes down to it, won't a well designed, perfectly (as close as possible anyway) engineered LSC cut through most safe/vault walls, composite or not?

Compromise. Speed vs. stealth?

In the above mentioned defeat via LSC, was the vault in a bank, business, or home? Pretty balls-y to try an LSC on a vault while in the bank. One time shot at success. If it came down to it, how confident would you be in that situation?:rolleyes:

I'm curious, more than anything.

[kld1648temp]

When it comes down to it, won't a well designed, perfectly (as close as possible anyway) engineered LSC cut through most safe/vault walls, composite or not?

Compromise. Speed vs. stealth?

In the above mentioned defeat via LSC, was the vault in a bank, business, or home? Pretty balls-y to try an LSC on a vault while in the bank. One time shot at success. If it came down to it, how confident would you be in that situation?:rolleyes:

I'm curious, more than anything.

[nbk2000]

Found a virgin WIKI site about safes with ZERO existing posts. :)

http://www.safe-gun-safes.com/SafesPedia/index.php/SafesPedia:About

Seems like a ready made place to start a WIKI on the subject, eh?

Yes, there are other subject threads on that WIKI that are about safes, but the 'About' section is the only one that's never been viewed by anyone except me, therefore ripe for exploiting. :)

[nbk2000]

Found an interesting site where a man is moving huge concrete blocks using nothing but small stones and wood levers.

http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/Page1.htm

More importantly, the 'Round Road' blocks that he uses let him roll ton blocks with a shove, letting them roll on their own.

I see much utility for rolling out safes after they've been tipped over.

Only problem is that safes are not uniformly dense, being filled with loose stuff, so the center of gravity would be constantly changing.

That, and I could imagine a safe full of gemstones ending up full of sparkly powder. :(

BTW, the Safepedia Wiki is 404'd. I guess they caught on. :p

[Syke]

I think it would be pretty hard to turn diamonds into sparkly powder NBK. :p Still if its a large bank vault why not just bypass the tungsten paneling with grinding/drilling and then bring in thermite to melt through the whole thing. It would be the poor mans plasma cutter.

[c.Tech]

I think it would be pretty hard to turn diamonds into sparkly powder NBK. :p

You will find that gems are more than just diamonds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstone#Gemstone_list

[Syke]

You will find that gems are more than just diamonds.

I know, I was just trying to say the difficulty of destroying a gemstone given their small size and high hardness. Also most jewelers safes have velvet linings to prvent scratches on softer items like gold or pearls.

[Jacks Complete]

Thermite isn't going to get you anywhere. Except perhaps warned about daft ideas. Using Thermite to try to cut through a safe is never going to work. It will do a fairly good rough weld, though, leaving lots of molten iron behind. Then you can grind through the cast iron, I suppose. Rather pointless, though.

The shockwave from an LSC will slice hardened steels and tungsten plate, wood, and soft jelly. It will turn even a diamond into little bits. It hits so hard and fast that *everything* seems brittle to it. However, with standoff and limited use, it will do the job and not over-do it.

Most safe barrier materials would be tough enough to wear out your grinder. You really need to cut to get through large amounts of steel, anyway. As someone points out above, you can go through a side more easily then the front.

[nbk2000]

Skye is gone, but his idiocy can still serve a purpose.

Imagine you have several hundred diamonds mixed in with other gems, such as ruby/sapphire/emerald/pearls/etc.

Now, proceed to mix them all together, along with any coinage, bullion bars, ring trays, and other junk in a big safe, and rotate for a bit like a giant rock tumbler.

Proceed to cry after seeing the effects of tumbling the hardest gemstone in the safe (diamond) with softer gems, what with all the gouging and scouring, along with shattering and cracking of hard (but brittle) diamonds being reduced to pieces by shattering blows from heavy trays and bullion bars against the steel safe body.

:(

Could probably figure on a 1-2% reduction in value for every rotation of the safe, down to the base metal value of the PM's contained within.

Thermite...:rolleyes:

You know it's a n00b talking when they say that word.

OK, so you've created your 3||+ Thermite device and set it off on top of the safe.

Now what?

You've just dropped several pounds of molten iron at 2,000°C into a small insulated steel box (called a safe) that contains combustible carbon granules (diamonds, for the dense), in what's going to be a pretty good substitute for a high-temperature furnace.

Watch as your carbon granules are instantly vaporized into carbon dioxide gas by the white-heat of molten iron splashing on it.

Those not directly touched will be shattered by the sudden radiant heating induced by such close proximity to a molten iron mass, before slowly vaporizing into CO2.

Also proceed to cringe as your 3||+ skillz with the fearsome thermite causes the glass relocking plate to shatter, the thermal cables to melt, all relockers to fire, as well as literally weld the safe door shut from the inside as the liquid iron runs down to the bottom of the safe and solidifies in the safe/door seam.

As Pinkie would say:

Simply brilliant, Brain! NARF!

Now, if there were NO gemstones or flammables in the safe, and you used a very precisely measured and placed Thermite charge to burn a hole for scoping the lock or such...THEN you'd have skill.

But you don't. :p

[Jacks Complete]

I seriously doubt that *anyone* could open a safe using Thermite. You would need far too much of it to not do as you said and weld the door shut, unless you managed to lie it on it's back first. A decent safe will often have a limited fire protection built in, too, as well as thermal relockers that are designed to stop torch attacks. Also, melting a 2" hole in a safe isn't going to get much out of it unless you have the ability to get the stuff through the hole - though a shop vacuum might work well for loose stuff.

[random136]

Also, melting a 2" hole in a safe isn't going to get much out of it unless you have the ability to get the stuff through the hole - though a shop vacuum might work well for loose stuff.

Sir,
I believe nbk was referring to the possible use of thermite in place of a power tool in order to melt a small hole at a specific point on the safe so as to make the wheels of the combination lock visible. This hole would probably be smaller then 2" and would be able to accommodate the tip of a borescope.

A borescope is a small device which uses optical fibers to render a magnified image of tiny, hard to reach areas; it is commonly used in a minimally intrusive branch of modern surgery called endoscopy.

With the aid of this process one could simply manipulate the combination lock as they observed it, and align the notches on all the wheels allowing the fence to drop. The process is described in greater detail in several places online, none of which are particularly difficult to find. Personally however, I would much rather depend on the accurate, albeit slow, power tools rather then take a chance with such things.

[Jacks Complete]

Personally? I think NBK was simply taking the piss out of the idiot who suggested Thermite.

[nbk2000]

I was taking a piss on the n00b suggesting Thermite, but only because he doesn't have a clue to its application in this scenario.

But Thermite does have use in limited circumstances, as it is quite quick and portable, though a terrible fire hazard for the surrounding area.

It would be most useful for making a small hole for scoping the lock, or for making the water/charge hole for doing the hydraulic overpressure rupture.

[Jacks Complete]

The kind of small but jagged hole left from a thermite charge, and the insane heat left over and then dropped into the safe, probably makes the water bursting trick the best idea for this scenario.