WWII's Paper Bomb Attack - cunning Japs!

[Jacks Complete]

<h3 class="title" style="text-transform: uppercase;">WORLD WAR II'S PAPER BOMB ATTACK</h3>

<p>It's one of World War II's oddest, and least-known stories: In 1944 and 1945, the Japanese sent a <a href="http://slate.msn.com/id/2102499/">fleet of hydrogen-filled, paper balloons</a> across the jet stream to strike North America. And it worked.</p>

<p>Out of the 9,000 handmade incendiaries sent, 1,000 eventually landed
here. And not just along the West Coast , but as far east as suburban
Detroit.</p>

<p><i><a href="http://slate.msn.com/">Slate</a></i> (via <a href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/17/0045224&amp;mode=thread&amp;tid=126&amp;tid=153&amp;tid=172&amp;tid=99">/.</a>) reviews the tale, gives a warning or two about censorship, and provides <a href="http://www.lib.msu.edu/unsworth/genhist/ww2/ww2st/fugo1.htm">a</a> <a href="http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/jbb.htm">few</a> <a href="http://collections.ic.gc.ca/balloons/">links</a>.</p>

<p><b>THERE'S MORE</b>: "In my research for <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380978768/qid=1087474626/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9934140-4446231?v=glance&amp;s=books">Terrors And Marvels: How Science<br>
And Technology Changed The Character And Outcome Of World War II</a></i>,
I came across an original photo, in the FDR Library at Hyde Park, of
one of the paper balloon bombs, tethered on a base in Montana," <b>Defense Tech dad Tom Shachtman</b> writes.<br>
</p><blockquote><i>The photo was there because it had crossed the
president's desk, and it had clearly alarmed him and his aides. (It is
reproduced in the book.) In general the balloons did very little harm,
though, no more than isolated lightning strikes might have done, and
their landing sites were less predictable than lightning strikes.
</i><p><i>The Canadian government did ready a plane full of peat moss
that they could impregnate with bubonic plague, for retaliation on
Japan in case one of the paper balloon bombs did contain biological,
disease-causing agents. In withholding information on the balloons from
the public until American and Canadian scientists could determine the
make-up of the payloads, the censorship served its basic purposes: to
prevent panic in the general public, and also to prevent trigger-happy
people in the military from sending peat-bombs in return.</i></blockquote>

------
Just found that this was already posted at http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=4242&highlight=japanese+balloon+bombs in the watercooler by someone who couldn't spell "balloon"!

This adds a bit about the Canadians having a peat-plague bomb ready to use in response, too.

[Jacks Complete]

<h3 class="title" style="text-transform: uppercase;">WORLD WAR II'S PAPER BOMB ATTACK</h3>

<p>It's one of World War II's oddest, and least-known stories: In 1944 and 1945, the Japanese sent a <a href="http://slate.msn.com/id/2102499/">fleet of hydrogen-filled, paper balloons</a> across the jet stream to strike North America. And it worked.</p>

<p>Out of the 9,000 handmade incendiaries sent, 1,000 eventually landed
here. And not just along the West Coast , but as far east as suburban
Detroit.</p>

<p><i><a href="http://slate.msn.com/">Slate</a></i> (via <a href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/17/0045224&amp;mode=thread&amp;tid=126&amp;tid=153&amp;tid=172&amp;tid=99">/.</a>) reviews the tale, gives a warning or two about censorship, and provides <a href="http://www.lib.msu.edu/unsworth/genhist/ww2/ww2st/fugo1.htm">a</a> <a href="http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/jbb.htm">few</a> <a href="http://collections.ic.gc.ca/balloons/">links</a>.</p>

<p><b>THERE'S MORE</b>: "In my research for <i><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380978768/qid=1087474626/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9934140-4446231?v=glance&amp;s=books">Terrors And Marvels: How Science<br>
And Technology Changed The Character And Outcome Of World War II</a></i>,
I came across an original photo, in the FDR Library at Hyde Park, of
one of the paper balloon bombs, tethered on a base in Montana," <b>Defense Tech dad Tom Shachtman</b> writes.<br>
</p><blockquote><i>The photo was there because it had crossed the
president's desk, and it had clearly alarmed him and his aides. (It is
reproduced in the book.) In general the balloons did very little harm,
though, no more than isolated lightning strikes might have done, and
their landing sites were less predictable than lightning strikes.
</i><p><i>The Canadian government did ready a plane full of peat moss
that they could impregnate with bubonic plague, for retaliation on
Japan in case one of the paper balloon bombs did contain biological,
disease-causing agents. In withholding information on the balloons from
the public until American and Canadian scientists could determine the
make-up of the payloads, the censorship served its basic purposes: to
prevent panic in the general public, and also to prevent trigger-happy
people in the military from sending peat-bombs in return.</i></blockquote>

------
Just found that this was already posted at http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=4242&highlight=japanese+balloon+bombs in the watercooler by someone who couldn't spell "balloon"!

This adds a bit about the Canadians having a peat-plague bomb ready to use in response, too.

[Silentnite]

Yeah, the Discovery channel runs a show every now and then on it. People have found cannistors all up and down the west coast.

My grandfather recently regaled us with a story of how, apparently, towards the end of the war, the Japanese landed up near the Bering Strait and US forces had to spend a few weeks flushing them out, as they tidied up down in the pacific.

[Silentnite]

Yeah, the Discovery channel runs a show every now and then on it. People have found cannistors all up and down the west coast.

My grandfather recently regaled us with a story of how, apparently, towards the end of the war, the Japanese landed up near the Bering Strait and US forces had to spend a few weeks flushing them out, as they tidied up down in the pacific.

[Jacks Complete]

Wow, so they actually made landfall! That was either brave or stupid, depending how you look at it!

[Jacks Complete]

Wow, so they actually made landfall! That was either brave or stupid, depending how you look at it!

[krimmie]

My grandfather recently regaled us with a story of how, apparently, towards the end of the war, the Japanese landed up near the Bering Strait and US forces had to spend a few weeks flushing them out, as they tidied up down in the pacific.

It was early in the War. Here's a recap.

http://www.nps.gov/aleu/WWII_in_the_Aleutians.htm

[krimmie]

My grandfather recently regaled us with a story of how, apparently, towards the end of the war, the Japanese landed up near the Bering Strait and US forces had to spend a few weeks flushing them out, as they tidied up down in the pacific.

It was early in the War. Here's a recap.

http://www.nps.gov/aleu/WWII_in_the_Aleutians.htm

[Jacks Complete]

Reading that, the invasion was a brilliant move.

Using under 3000 troops, they forced the USA to commit 144,000! Yes, they all got killed, but it is still incredible as a force multiplier. The UK doesn't have that many troops these days.

I got annoyed reading "Cryptonomicom" by Neil Stephenson, which made the japs out to be total fuckwits. The Japs were rather silly in some ways, though. In reality, they were just a bit too rigid in the procurement section. With a better look at how the weapons they were using were performing, they would have rapidly improved them, and perhaps done a lot better (up till the nuke party).

No other modern army has ever fought down to the last man, nor been as commited. With better tools and slightly different training, they would have inflicted far more losses.

Just a decent hand grenade would have played a big part in it, since the fuse was both too long (7 seconds) and the charge too weak (a kill zone of under 10 metres) to be truely effective for traps.

Better/different training for the snipers, and a better rifle with sights that actually worked, would also have been a major factor. Don't get me wrong, the snipers were incredible at fieldcraft and living up a tree for two months, but they worked alone, which got them killed a lot, and the terminal effects of the ammo they were using meant that head shots would have been far better. They often only got one shot because they had to let the US get so close to ensure a hit.

A good light machinegun, such as the BREN would have turned the course of many engagements.

Some armour for the pilots would have been more useful than seeing the pilots as expendable - you can't even do a kamakazie attack if you are dead in the air! - and they should have discouraged those anyway, since the plane and pilot costs a lot, yet did little damage against armoured ships!

Imagine if those troops had been trained that well, and armed with something like the UK or US troops, with good grenades, small arms and light machineguns. They would have been unbeatable, even with the massive numbers in the US favour, just because they would have been that bit more able to inflict casualties.

The other telling thing is that through WWII, the USA and the UK kept pushing forwards with incremental improvements, but only set tehm into mass production every so often. The German tanks, for example, were rarely interchangable, since there were so many small revisions, whereas Allied forces could easily take parts and swap them, which made life easier, and made supply easier too. The Japs seem to have been the other way, and never improved anything a bit, seeming to think what they had was the best and perfect, which it was to begin with, but was soon outclassed as the arms race progressed.

[Jacks Complete]

Reading that, the invasion was a brilliant move.

Using under 3000 troops, they forced the USA to commit 144,000! Yes, they all got killed, but it is still incredible as a force multiplier. The UK doesn't have that many troops these days.

I got annoyed reading "Cryptonomicom" by Neil Stephenson, which made the japs out to be total fuckwits. The Japs were rather silly in some ways, though. In reality, they were just a bit too rigid in the procurement section. With a better look at how the weapons they were using were performing, they would have rapidly improved them, and perhaps done a lot better (up till the nuke party).

No other modern army has ever fought down to the last man, nor been as commited. With better tools and slightly different training, they would have inflicted far more losses.

Just a decent hand grenade would have played a big part in it, since the fuse was both too long (7 seconds) and the charge too weak (a kill zone of under 10 metres) to be truely effective for traps.

Better/different training for the snipers, and a better rifle with sights that actually worked, would also have been a major factor. Don't get me wrong, the snipers were incredible at fieldcraft and living up a tree for two months, but they worked alone, which got them killed a lot, and the terminal effects of the ammo they were using meant that head shots would have been far better. They often only got one shot because they had to let the US get so close to ensure a hit.

A good light machinegun, such as the BREN would have turned the course of many engagements.

Some armour for the pilots would have been more useful than seeing the pilots as expendable - you can't even do a kamakazie attack if you are dead in the air! - and they should have discouraged those anyway, since the plane and pilot costs a lot, yet did little damage against armoured ships!

Imagine if those troops had been trained that well, and armed with something like the UK or US troops, with good grenades, small arms and light machineguns. They would have been unbeatable, even with the massive numbers in the US favour, just because they would have been that bit more able to inflict casualties.

The other telling thing is that through WWII, the USA and the UK kept pushing forwards with incremental improvements, but only set tehm into mass production every so often. The German tanks, for example, were rarely interchangable, since there were so many small revisions, whereas Allied forces could easily take parts and swap them, which made life easier, and made supply easier too. The Japs seem to have been the other way, and never improved anything a bit, seeming to think what they had was the best and perfect, which it was to begin with, but was soon outclassed as the arms race progressed.

[Silentnite]

I'm not too sure about that Jack. Kamikaze's were a little more effective then you might think, and with the Japanese producing planes like they did the only hard/costly part was the procuring of pilots.

[Silentnite]

I'm not too sure about that Jack. Kamikaze's were a little more effective then you might think, and with the Japanese producing planes like they did the only hard/costly part was the procuring of pilots.

[hereno]

Ignorant and brainwashed peoples :(

Seems like you are looking for excuses there Jacks, what if... what if ... what if...

Effectively they couldn't hope to wage war for a long perod against the USA, with the unlimited resources available the them and little to Japan. And then theres Russia that surely would have stepped in.. Japan is lucky it was occupied by the allies, as they were quickly rebuilt and its sins quickly forgotten. They weren't made to "pay" for the war they created to avoid trouble in the future. There is still widespread resentment in the countries occupied by Japan, since they were never held accountable for the attrocities committed. Nor have they even recognised that they did it. This is stark contrast to Germany whose actions were no more barbaric then Japans.

Wasn't it only one in a thousand or so kamakase's that actually sunk a ship? Surely thats something that they DIDNT tell the poor ignorant saps they sent out to die. It was an attack on American moral more then an effective weapon, certainly not as effective as they thought when some ass come up with the idea! Especially since it was an attack on jap moral as well.

I take the hard line here, as I see no "honor" in being brainwashed enough that one would kill themselves for a ghastly cause, just to please their master.

[hereno]

Ignorant and brainwashed peoples :(

Seems like you are looking for excuses there Jacks, what if... what if ... what if...

Effectively they couldn't hope to wage war for a long perod against the USA, with the unlimited resources available the them and little to Japan. And then theres Russia that surely would have stepped in.. Japan is lucky it was occupied by the allies, as they were quickly rebuilt and its sins quickly forgotten. They weren't made to "pay" for the war they created to avoid trouble in the future. There is still widespread resentment in the countries occupied by Japan, since they were never held accountable for the attrocities committed. Nor have they even recognised that they did it. This is stark contrast to Germany whose actions were no more barbaric then Japans.

Wasn't it only one in a thousand or so kamakase's that actually sunk a ship? Surely thats something that they DIDNT tell the poor ignorant saps they sent out to die. It was an attack on American moral more then an effective weapon, certainly not as effective as they thought when some ass come up with the idea! Especially since it was an attack on jap moral as well.

I take the hard line here, as I see no "honor" in being brainwashed enough that one would kill themselves for a ghastly cause, just to please their master.

[Jacks Complete]

Kamikaze attacks were pretty effective, but were ineffective once the US got used to the idea...

...which is Exactly the same as all the other Jap tatics. Had they kept them up to date, and evolving, they would have been far better equipped during the war.

Either way, a dead pilot can't fly his plane into a ship. With pilot armour, the likelyhood of success would have been far higher.

hereno, you are right about the way Japan got away with WWII, though. Plus it brought them into the 20th century and turned them into a first world country inside one generation. Almost seems cheap!

[Jacks Complete]

Kamikaze attacks were pretty effective, but were ineffective once the US got used to the idea...

...which is Exactly the same as all the other Jap tatics. Had they kept them up to date, and evolving, they would have been far better equipped during the war.

Either way, a dead pilot can't fly his plane into a ship. With pilot armour, the likelyhood of success would have been far higher.

hereno, you are right about the way Japan got away with WWII, though. Plus it brought them into the 20th century and turned them into a first world country inside one generation. Almost seems cheap!

[nbk2000]

If the kami's had been using the rocket powered flying bombs they developed (too) late in the war, then each kami would have been flying a 2,000 pound bomb at almost 700mph into the ships! :eek:

That'd be enough to sink a ship in one hit if the location was vital.

As it was, they sunk numerous ships, even a carrier or two, though through fire and secondary explosions, not through direct impact.

Now, if the japs had loaded the paper bombs with the plague weapons they had developed and used against the chinks across the waters, then things might have been a lot uglier for us.

Oh, and the chinese and koreans hate japs with a passion to this very day, as do the japs hate the chinese and koreans. :)

[nbk2000]

If the kami's had been using the rocket powered flying bombs they developed (too) late in the war, then each kami would have been flying a 2,000 pound bomb at almost 700mph into the ships! :eek:

That'd be enough to sink a ship in one hit if the location was vital.

As it was, they sunk numerous ships, even a carrier or two, though through fire and secondary explosions, not through direct impact.

Now, if the japs had loaded the paper bombs with the plague weapons they had developed and used against the chinks across the waters, then things might have been a lot uglier for us.

Oh, and the chinese and koreans hate japs with a passion to this very day, as do the japs hate the chinese and koreans. :)

[hereno]

If the kami's had been using the rocket powered flying bombs they developed (too) late in the war, then each kami would have been flying a 2,000 pound bomb at almost 700mph into the ships! :eek:

They tried, flawed as they had to be delivered by bombers, thus easy targets. I don't think any even made it through, not even launched. They would have needed air superiority to get them to the target, but then they wouldn't have needed suicide rockets! I dont think any of the suicide subs got through either.

Now, if the japs had loaded the paper bombs with the plague weapons they had developed and used against the chinks across the waters, then things might have been a lot uglier for us.

Well, they did, though I'm not sure how it was delivered, and only more remote areas were targeted in order to see the effect. And then the head of the japs bioweapon program was granted asylum in the US on the condition that he disclosed what knowledge he had. No wonder the Chinese are pissed!

[hereno]

If the kami's had been using the rocket powered flying bombs they developed (too) late in the war, then each kami would have been flying a 2,000 pound bomb at almost 700mph into the ships! :eek:

They tried, flawed as they had to be delivered by bombers, thus easy targets. I don't think any even made it through, not even launched. They would have needed air superiority to get them to the target, but then they wouldn't have needed suicide rockets! I dont think any of the suicide subs got through either.

Now, if the japs had loaded the paper bombs with the plague weapons they had developed and used against the chinks across the waters, then things might have been a lot uglier for us.

Well, they did, though I'm not sure how it was delivered, and only more remote areas were targeted in order to see the effect. And then the head of the japs bioweapon program was granted asylum in the US on the condition that he disclosed what knowledge he had. No wonder the Chinese are pissed!

[redbull]

I havent read on this subject in quite a while but I think at Pearl Harbor the Japs diddent have enough fuel to return. I guess that would help cut down on pilots changing their mind :)

[redbull]

I havent read on this subject in quite a while but I think at Pearl Harbor the Japs diddent have enough fuel to return. I guess that would help cut down on pilots changing their mind :)

[Jacks Complete]

hereno, yes, there was a case a few years ago where the Plague broke out again in some remote part of SE Asia, and they couldn't work it out. Eventually the high-n-mighty aid workers asked the old locals, and they were told that it happened every time such-and-such happened, ever since the Japs dropped plague bombs on them during the war!

I remember reading a lot about the Jap "medical" bio-weapons program, they basically killed loads of prisoners in really crude, uneducated ways, and were putting so much effort into that that the actual research was years behind most other countries! Oh, the irony...

redbull, I think they did have enough fuel to get back, but they could only spend five minutes on the target, so as to have enough. This meant no dogfights and no killing the few planes that got off the ground, as well as ensuring a lot less destruction at the target.

[Jacks Complete]

hereno, yes, there was a case a few years ago where the Plague broke out again in some remote part of SE Asia, and they couldn't work it out. Eventually the high-n-mighty aid workers asked the old locals, and they were told that it happened every time such-and-such happened, ever since the Japs dropped plague bombs on them during the war!

I remember reading a lot about the Jap "medical" bio-weapons program, they basically killed loads of prisoners in really crude, uneducated ways, and were putting so much effort into that that the actual research was years behind most other countries! Oh, the irony...

redbull, I think they did have enough fuel to get back, but they could only spend five minutes on the target, so as to have enough. This meant no dogfights and no killing the few planes that got off the ground, as well as ensuring a lot less destruction at the target.

[Silentnite]

No, they were given enough fuel to get there and maybe a little more, but not enough for a complete return.

[Silentnite]

No, they were given enough fuel to get there and maybe a little more, but not enough for a complete return.

[Gollum]

That's wrong, they Zeroes of pearl harbor fought over the islands for up to 30 minutes, the aircraft were loaded with as many bombs and fuel tanks as possible, which also maximized damage when impacting a ship in the end stages of the war. The A6M series carried 2 bombs under the wings and a fuel tank under the belly. The A6M also happened to be the longest ranged single engine fighter of the entire war. The A6M2 had endurance of more than 12 hours.

The Japanese would have won the war in the pacific if they had realised that unrestricted submarine warfare was killing them. That is what destroyed the Japanese war effort.

Japan invaded the southeast pacific for oil. When submarines started killing the tankers, they lost the entire benefit of the original invasion. This in combination with raids on the homeland spelled disaster for military industry which is what ultimately cost Japan the war, not a lack of personell.

Sorry to bump an old thread but it's an interesting topic and came up in a search for something else.

[Jacks Complete]

Gollum, bumping an old thread with interesting stuff is always welcome!

Silentnite is wrong, you are correct. The issue with endurance is that it means different things to different people. 30 minutes loiter is not enough to do much more than beat the crap out of a place and leg it home again. If they had been intending to stay for another 4 hours and take out the remaining ships and people, before dropping out the sky, the attack would have been all the more devasting. Dropping a load of troops there first, or 'chuting them in, might also have been a good idea, as long as ships were fairly close to steam in and take over the fight before the loiter time ran out.

If the Japs could have completely destroyed Pearl Harbour, things would have been quite different. If they could have taken the entire island, it would have been even more so. But that wasn't the intention of the Japs. It probably should have been, since they weren't a bunch of terrorists trying to perform asymetric warfare.

[nbk2000]

If the japs had occupied Hawaii, they would have done their usual atrocities against the civilian population, just like they did to the the chinese in Nanking.

Only these would have been American babies in America (though it wasn't yet a state) getting tossed around on bayonets, not some gooks in china, so I don't imagine we would have stopped at merely nuking their cities. We would have to have invaded to punish them.

It would have been gloriously bloody. :)

[Hirudinea]

If you'd like to see an real balloon bomb in the flesh, so to speak, the Canadian War Museum has one on display, quite interesting thing to hang off an oragami balloon. :)

The Japanese lost WWII when they failed to destory the fuel depots and repair facilities at Pearl Harbour. By the way have you heard about the "Japanese Nuclear Bomb"? Maybe bullshit but who knows.

+++++++++

Don't quote whole posts. NBK