Anthony
March 17th, 2003, 08:07 PM
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 12, 2000 07:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ive heard many recipies that say stir the solution with a glass rod. Who the hell has a glass rod in there house? I just shake the mixture until it gets warm, then a stop and start again... is this ok?
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 12, 2000 08:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What explosive are you talkling about? AP I would think. I stir it with a straw. If you are making something that says use a glass rod, use a thermometer.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 12, 2000 08:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so i shouldnt shake?
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 651
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 12, 2000 09:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it shouldnt be getting warm I can tell you that, for the trimer to form the solution should be kept cold through the entire operation
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 12, 2000 09:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet shaking would be better than stiring, but you would have to find a lid that is resistant to HCl and Acetone. If you didnt know, HCl dont like most metals and Acetone dont like most plastics and many other things like glue and paint. If you shake it when it has AP in it, the AP will stay on the sides and be harder to get out.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 12, 2000 09:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, that has happeneed to me, i had to use like 1 gallon of water to get all mine out, but it got mixed really well
gcic
Frequent Poster
Posts: 80
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 13, 2000 12:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have got a lass stirring rod. But actually I haven`t ever needed it for the manufacture of AP. The reaction doesn`t really need shaking or stirring here.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 13, 2000 09:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you've ever had a chemistry kit when you were a child you should be able to find a glass stirring rod in there.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 13, 2000 06:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on people! I know AP is easy to make but that's no reason to bodge it, you need at least 10mins of stirring in an ice bath and add the acid throughout that time. I use a bamboo skewer for stirring, no problems.
I'm not just bitching, but not only does taking a few minutes of effort give you a better yield/better quality product, it also promotes good habits for when you get onto more difficult to make explosives. Shaking a jar of concentrated HNO3 is a really bad idea, if the lid came off or leaking you could have some nasty burns, even HCl + acetone wouldn't do your eyes much good.
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 13, 2000 06:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acetone Peroxide martini
shaken, not stirred
megalomania
Administrator
Posts: 651
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 02:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I take it for granted that I have always had glass rods, I have dozens, people always give me some. Of course I have a lot more "stuff" than most people
Anyway, I comment here because stirring is always preferrable to shaking. Imagine trying to make pudding by just swirling the bowl, it's not gonna be very good. Stirring can homogenize the reactants, regulate the temperature, and in general increase the success of the reaction. Also, NEVER use a thermometer as a stirring rod, that is the #1 way to break them, and if it's a mercury (soon to be illegal) one, you risk exposure, plus product contamination.
My suggestion is to use a plastic hanger. Wood can cause bad side reactions, plastic is in most cases (not all mind) not going to react. Get a plastic hanger, cut the bottom part off and use the foot long shaft as your stirrer. A rubber spatula will also do, just pluck off the rubber part and use the plastic shaft. Alternatly, you can go to one of those science places at the mall (World of Science, or the Discovery Channel Store) or any local hobby shop and get yourself a real glass rod.
------------------
For the most comprehensive and informative web site on explosives and related topics, go to Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at <a href="http://surf.to/megalomania" target="_blank">http://surf.to/megalomania</a>
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 04:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have one of those 1.5 foot lab/industrial grade thermometers woth mercury that works well and is very strong
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 05:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
actually I was just joking about the shaken not stirred thing (wanted to sound like bond) I have always used either a 8" long bamboo skewer or one of the many glass rods that I "obtained" from my chemistry class.
Hey mega wouldn't the acetone in the mixture start to dissolve the plastic hanger part? or at least take the coloring off of it or something? a long time ago I used to dip GI Joes and legos in acetone and they would become mushy after a few minutes.
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there are some plastics that are acetone resistant. coat hangers might be one of those variety.
------------------
...Æ
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have a glass rod. err did have on enyways. I just broke it by accident. I all have to get a new one.
------------------
Explosives Archive
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 04:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know for definate HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene) is resistant to acetone, it is also resistanty to conc. HCl and H2SO4. If containers are HDPE they are usially marked as so for recycling purposes.
I have some lengths glass tubing from a chemisty set I had as a kid which I sometimes use for stiring.
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 12, 2000 07:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ive heard many recipies that say stir the solution with a glass rod. Who the hell has a glass rod in there house? I just shake the mixture until it gets warm, then a stop and start again... is this ok?
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 12, 2000 08:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What explosive are you talkling about? AP I would think. I stir it with a straw. If you are making something that says use a glass rod, use a thermometer.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted November 12, 2000 08:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so i shouldnt shake?
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 651
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 12, 2000 09:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it shouldnt be getting warm I can tell you that, for the trimer to form the solution should be kept cold through the entire operation
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 12, 2000 09:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet shaking would be better than stiring, but you would have to find a lid that is resistant to HCl and Acetone. If you didnt know, HCl dont like most metals and Acetone dont like most plastics and many other things like glue and paint. If you shake it when it has AP in it, the AP will stay on the sides and be harder to get out.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 12, 2000 09:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, that has happeneed to me, i had to use like 1 gallon of water to get all mine out, but it got mixed really well
gcic
Frequent Poster
Posts: 80
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 13, 2000 12:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have got a lass stirring rod. But actually I haven`t ever needed it for the manufacture of AP. The reaction doesn`t really need shaking or stirring here.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 13, 2000 09:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you've ever had a chemistry kit when you were a child you should be able to find a glass stirring rod in there.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted November 13, 2000 06:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come on people! I know AP is easy to make but that's no reason to bodge it, you need at least 10mins of stirring in an ice bath and add the acid throughout that time. I use a bamboo skewer for stirring, no problems.
I'm not just bitching, but not only does taking a few minutes of effort give you a better yield/better quality product, it also promotes good habits for when you get onto more difficult to make explosives. Shaking a jar of concentrated HNO3 is a really bad idea, if the lid came off or leaking you could have some nasty burns, even HCl + acetone wouldn't do your eyes much good.
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted November 13, 2000 06:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acetone Peroxide martini
shaken, not stirred
megalomania
Administrator
Posts: 651
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 02:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I take it for granted that I have always had glass rods, I have dozens, people always give me some. Of course I have a lot more "stuff" than most people
Anyway, I comment here because stirring is always preferrable to shaking. Imagine trying to make pudding by just swirling the bowl, it's not gonna be very good. Stirring can homogenize the reactants, regulate the temperature, and in general increase the success of the reaction. Also, NEVER use a thermometer as a stirring rod, that is the #1 way to break them, and if it's a mercury (soon to be illegal) one, you risk exposure, plus product contamination.
My suggestion is to use a plastic hanger. Wood can cause bad side reactions, plastic is in most cases (not all mind) not going to react. Get a plastic hanger, cut the bottom part off and use the foot long shaft as your stirrer. A rubber spatula will also do, just pluck off the rubber part and use the plastic shaft. Alternatly, you can go to one of those science places at the mall (World of Science, or the Discovery Channel Store) or any local hobby shop and get yourself a real glass rod.
------------------
For the most comprehensive and informative web site on explosives and related topics, go to Megalomania's Explosives and Stuff at <a href="http://surf.to/megalomania" target="_blank">http://surf.to/megalomania</a>
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1474
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 04:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have one of those 1.5 foot lab/industrial grade thermometers woth mercury that works well and is very strong
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 05:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
actually I was just joking about the shaken not stirred thing (wanted to sound like bond) I have always used either a 8" long bamboo skewer or one of the many glass rods that I "obtained" from my chemistry class.
Hey mega wouldn't the acetone in the mixture start to dissolve the plastic hanger part? or at least take the coloring off of it or something? a long time ago I used to dip GI Joes and legos in acetone and they would become mushy after a few minutes.
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 08:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there are some plastics that are acetone resistant. coat hangers might be one of those variety.
------------------
...Æ
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have a glass rod. err did have on enyways. I just broke it by accident. I all have to get a new one.
------------------
Explosives Archive
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 03, 2001 04:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know for definate HDPE (High Density PolyEthylene) is resistant to acetone, it is also resistanty to conc. HCl and H2SO4. If containers are HDPE they are usially marked as so for recycling purposes.
I have some lengths glass tubing from a chemisty set I had as a kid which I sometimes use for stiring.