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Anthony
March 17th, 2003, 08:07 PM
MacCleod
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From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted December 16, 2000 02:04 AM
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It's my understanding that the acids in AP/HMTD production act as catalysts,and many different acids may be used for this purpose.I've not heard any mention of oxalic acid however.Does anyone have any info. on it's use for this purpose (or lack therof)?. It's sold at some hardware stores for use as a wood bleach.
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CodeMason
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Posts: 386
From: Your Nightmares
Registered: NOV 2000
posted December 16, 2000 10:25 PM
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Mineral acids (HCl, H2SO4) tend to be the best, but I guess oxalic acid would work. From what I understand, citric acid is the preferred catalyst for HMTD. Both are organic acids. The downside would probably be the reaction will take far longer than it should, since organic acids tend to be fairly weak.
Anyway, why don't you just try it and compare the acids and tell us your findings? It could really do no harm.


megalomania
Administrator
Posts: 651
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 03:17 PM
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Do not use organic acids for AP synthesis, it's mineral only. So says the original published research. As for HMTD, I do not know.
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MacCleod
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Posts: 215
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 02, 2001 11:08 PM
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Thanks,Megalomania.Saved me some unneccesary work(I was just about to try it!).BTW,did you decide to "pop the question"?.Inquiring minds wanna know!.


Mr Cool
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Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 05:46 AM
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I know for a fact that both HCl and citric acid work for HMTD, and I got better results with HCl.


Mr Cool
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Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 05:47 AM
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P.S. - metal oxalates are often explosives themselves! Copper and silver salts are, and probably the lead salt is and the mercury one too.


PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 15, 2001 04:38 AM
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I have already made the silver oxalate three years ago and it ws not that interesting as compared to the acetylide.
So, following you the Copper salt is also an explosive....hum interesting have you info on this one (I will try it anyway since I stil have a big quantity of the oxalic acid).
The mercury salt is said to be explosive, I have never tried but I will also.
The lead salt .... maybe (I'll take a look).
Some organic salts of Ag, Hg, (Cu and Pb?) are explosives like the tartrate salt....
BTW for those who are intriguished by those oxalic explosives here are the equations:
2AgNO3 + H-O-CO-CO-OH ---> AgO2C-CO2Ag + 2 HNO3
The salt does form here because it is so unsoluble that even the fact that HNO3 is a much stronger acid than (HCO2-)2 doesn't stop the reaction.
Ag-CO2-CO2-Ag (dry)+heat -->2Ag + 2 CO2 + heat

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Mr Cool
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Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 16, 2001 04:10 PM
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I don't have any info on any of them, nor have I tried any of them. I just heard about them.