Information now being banned?

[me234]

Coming soon to a government near you:
It is now illegal (unless I'm seriously mistaken, in which case I got it from the TV), in the UK I believe, to preach, teach, or otherwise advocate terrorism.
Just what exactly does that entail? Well it means that if at any time any source of information arises that preaches, teaches or otherwise advocates terrorism, I'm pretty sure it'll have its ass pulled from TV, a newspaper, the internet, wherever it appeared.
I believe that this new regulation that they want to impose/ or already have is to be effective in the UK. I apologise for the lack of certainty, I only caught the tail end of this segment of BBC this morning.

So, unless I'm sorely mistaken (and I really hope I am here), those members who reside and access the Forum from inside the UK will probably no longer be able to do so. What're the odds some outsider (i.e. non forum addict) will see this sight and NOT cry out the magic word "TERRORISTS" gasp, shock, horror. Thus resulting in this website being removed from British access.

As right now I'm pretty ignorant of the facts here, could someone who knows anything more than me please correct me, I'm dying to know what the hell they're doing. I don't even mind getting a bit flamed for starting a thread without all the facts (But I presume the threads exist to discover the facts).

So now we know what the brits are getting out of this London bombing thing. All you unbelievers out there, if I'm right in my earlier claims, look me in the eye and tell me you are 100% certain that the government was not somehow involved in those incidents, even if it was just to stand by and knowingly let them happen.

[me234]

Coming soon to a government near you:
It is now illegal (unless I'm seriously mistaken, in which case I got it from the TV), in the UK I believe, to preach, teach, or otherwise advocate terrorism.
Just what exactly does that entail? Well it means that if at any time any source of information arises that preaches, teaches or otherwise advocates terrorism, I'm pretty sure it'll have its ass pulled from TV, a newspaper, the internet, wherever it appeared.
I believe that this new regulation that they want to impose/ or already have is to be effective in the UK. I apologise for the lack of certainty, I only caught the tail end of this segment of BBC this morning.

So, unless I'm sorely mistaken (and I really hope I am here), those members who reside and access the Forum from inside the UK will probably no longer be able to do so. What're the odds some outsider (i.e. non forum addict) will see this sight and NOT cry out the magic word "TERRORISTS" gasp, shock, horror. Thus resulting in this website being removed from British access.

As right now I'm pretty ignorant of the facts here, could someone who knows anything more than me please correct me, I'm dying to know what the hell they're doing. I don't even mind getting a bit flamed for starting a thread without all the facts (But I presume the threads exist to discover the facts).

So now we know what the brits are getting out of this London bombing thing. All you unbelievers out there, if I'm right in my earlier claims, look me in the eye and tell me you are 100% certain that the government was not somehow involved in those incidents, even if it was just to stand by and knowingly let them happen.

[Jacks Complete]

The law already covers this side of things.

If I were to talk about terrorism as in how I would carry out an attack, I would be a risk of a visit from Special Branch. I have little doubt they monitor this site quite closely, and, what with the server and my ISP being in the UK, they can monitor every last little thing I post, download or surf to, and tie it to my name in a few hours. (Due to the RIP act, which regulates the ISP, not the police, to whom it gives massive powers! GCHQ also monitor most of the phone and data calls made to and from the UK, as well as mobiles.)

I don't use a complex proxy system because it's too much hassle, and I have nothing to hide. I'm still not giving out my name and address though!

What they want to expand the law to cover is "Acts preparatory to terror". This would, perhaps, include reading about terrorists, learning about bombs and guns, going to a gun club, going to a mosque run by an extremist Islamic or other known risk, all sorts of things.

Basically, they want to be able to hang us for whatever they feel like, should they decide they don't like us. A simple case heard without representation, defence or even your knowledge will decide that, based on some purely circumstantial evidence, that you should be snatched off the streets and live the rest of your life in solitary at Belmarsh, with no-one having a clue what happened or why...

I find it deeply disturbing, to be honest. As has been pointed out many times before, the harder the rulers come down on people, and the more fall-out from the crackdowns there are, the more people are going to object, and more violently. And suddenly, even I wind up sounding like a terrorist!

Truly a sad day... And not just because they just bombed London again!

[Jacks Complete]

The law already covers this side of things.

If I were to talk about terrorism as in how I would carry out an attack, I would be a risk of a visit from Special Branch. I have little doubt they monitor this site quite closely, and, what with the server and my ISP being in the UK, they can monitor every last little thing I post, download or surf to, and tie it to my name in a few hours. (Due to the RIP act, which regulates the ISP, not the police, to whom it gives massive powers! GCHQ also monitor most of the phone and data calls made to and from the UK, as well as mobiles.)

I don't use a complex proxy system because it's too much hassle, and I have nothing to hide. I'm still not giving out my name and address though!

What they want to expand the law to cover is "Acts preparatory to terror". This would, perhaps, include reading about terrorists, learning about bombs and guns, going to a gun club, going to a mosque run by an extremist Islamic or other known risk, all sorts of things.

Basically, they want to be able to hang us for whatever they feel like, should they decide they don't like us. A simple case heard without representation, defence or even your knowledge will decide that, based on some purely circumstantial evidence, that you should be snatched off the streets and live the rest of your life in solitary at Belmarsh, with no-one having a clue what happened or why...

I find it deeply disturbing, to be honest. As has been pointed out many times before, the harder the rulers come down on people, and the more fall-out from the crackdowns there are, the more people are going to object, and more violently. And suddenly, even I wind up sounding like a terrorist!

Truly a sad day... And not just because they just bombed London again!

[FUTI]

Jack is right. A friend told me that after RIP act is adopted a large number of people from UK switched to Internet service providers based in Dublin to be out of reach of their hands...well not to far for Eschelon but better this...I wonder when will they make a confesion rooms like in church for us to go and sign confesion of our crimes before they show us the fireing squad.

[FUTI]

Jack is right. A friend told me that after RIP act is adopted a large number of people from UK switched to Internet service providers based in Dublin to be out of reach of their hands...well not to far for Eschelon but better this...I wonder when will they make a confesion rooms like in church for us to go and sign confesion of our crimes before they show us the fireing squad.

[Dave Angel]

A friend recently referred me to the RIP act Jack's talking about:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000023.htm

Refer to sections 49 and 53 in particular.

Something I didn't realise was that this basically says if they ask for you for you PGP key, password etc. and you refuse then you have committed an offence punishable by up to 2 years imprisonment and/or a fine.

I knew our freedoms were being removed, but I had no idea it had already gone quite so far.

[Dave Angel]

A friend recently referred me to the RIP act Jack's talking about:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000023.htm

Refer to sections 49 and 53 in particular.

Something I didn't realise was that this basically says if they ask for you for you PGP key, password etc. and you refuse then you have committed an offence punishable by up to 2 years imprisonment and/or a fine.

I knew our freedoms were being removed, but I had no idea it had already gone quite so far.

[Skean Dhu]

And thats exactly the kind of games they're playing. They are depending on a few people knowing about a few freedoms being revoked but not one person to know of all of them, if everyone knew about all the BS they 've pulled since 9/11 there would be a revolution. and whats the point of having let all this terrorism happen(I am still giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one) if you don't get more power?

[Skean Dhu]

And thats exactly the kind of games they're playing. They are depending on a few people knowing about a few freedoms being revoked but not one person to know of all of them, if everyone knew about all the BS they 've pulled since 9/11 there would be a revolution. and whats the point of having let all this terrorism happen(I am still giving them the benefit of the doubt on this one) if you don't get more power?

[megalomania]

I actually found this article a few minutes before I read this thread, but since this thread is already here I will comment. I actually thought this article was a joke at first, there is no way such a horrible law could be passed. How much more malevolent and oppressive can a law be that criminalizes its citizens for something the government thinks you might do? Laws like these tend to expand over time. View a porn site? You might be a rapist. Shopping for a crowbar? You could be a burglar.

I never thought about foreign intelligence services trolling this site before, I was worried enough about American gestapo agencies. Thanks for putting that thought into my head. Sure enough my website ranks #6 on google for "acetone peroxide." Beat out by TOTSE! Well, it is an honor just to be nominated :)


20 July 2005: Acetone peroxide – ordinary ingredients for an extraordinary explosive

A UK government clamp-down on internet abuse is being rushed through parliament following the apparent ease with which terrorists can obtain the wherewithal to make bombs like those used in the recent attack on London.
‘Terrorist and extremist use of the internet poses a significant threat,’ a Home Office spokesperson told Chemistry World, ‘We are already working with our G8 and European partners to find ways to tackle the sites and identify individuals and groups responsible. People who download bomb-making instructions and then try to follow them could well be guilty of the new proposed Act Preparatory to Terrorism offence, which we announced on 18th July, and will be taken forward into the new Prevention of Terrorism Bill.’
The internet provides precise instructions on how to make acetone peroxide, the suicide bombers’ weapon of choice. Common household ingredients – paint thinners (acetone), bleach or antiseptic (hydrogen peroxide), and a powerful drain unblocker (>85 per cent sulphuric acid) – can be obtained from hardware stores and pharmacies. Mixed in the right proportions, these ingredients produce white crystals of acetone peroxide.
The explosive power of acetone peroxide (or triacetone triperoxide – TATP – its correct chemical name) is close that of TNT. TATP is highly sensitive to heat, friction and mechanical shock, so much so that inexperienced handling can lead to maiming and death. Anti-terrorism experts report that the compound is known as ‘Mother of Satan’ by Islamic extremists for its devastating instability. It doesn’t say much for any health and safety in the workplace policy of the Palestinian militant organisation Hamas that 40 Palestinians have allegedly been killed while handling TATP.
TATP was, until recently, difficult to detect. It can be combined with other explosives as a detonator, most famously in the abortive attempt by Richard Reid, the so-called ‘shoe bomber’, to blow up a transatlantic flight in December 2001.
The acid-catalysed peroxidation of acetone leads to up to three forms of acetone peroxide, including a monomer, cyclic dimer, and a cyclic trimer.
The trimer is generally thought to be marginally more stable than the other two and is formed preferentially when the temperature of the reaction and subsequent product formation is kept below 10 degrees Celsius. Some of the more unstable dimer is always found associated with the trimer, and TATP degrades over long-term storage, making it unsuitable for conventional explosive ordnance – but ideal for the hit-and-suicide attacks favoured by extremists.
TATP is an unusual explosive. ‘We normally think of explosive materials, like fuels, as highly energetic compounds, releasing their energy content in fast, exothermic reactions. So, excessive heat of formation has been considered to be the key property of all explosives,’ said Ehud Keinan, professor of chemistry at Haifa Technion, Israel. He and a team of researchers in Israel and Germany have been investigating the dynamics TATP explosions. ‘Although TATP does burn when it is set alight, releasing large volumes of carbon dioxide and water, it appears that very little heat is created when it explosively decomposes,’ said Keinan.
Calculations from Keinan and his team predict is that TATP undergoes an entropic explosion, each molecule of TATP collapsing to produce three molecules of acetone and one of ozone. ‘A supersonically propagated entropy burst drives the explosive power of TATP, not the usual heat generated during the decomposition of conventional explosives,’ he concluded. Lionel Milgrom
References
F Dubnikova et al, J. Am. Chem. Soc., 2005, 127, 1146

source: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2005/July/20070502.asp

[megalomania]

I actually found this article a few minutes before I read this thread, but since this thread is already here I will comment. I actually thought this article was a joke at first, there is no way such a horrible law could be passed. How much more malevolent and oppressive can a law be that criminalizes its citizens for something the government thinks you might do? Laws like these tend to expand over time. View a porn site? You might be a rapist. Shopping for a crowbar? You could be a burglar.

I never thought about foreign intelligence services trolling this site before, I was worried enough about American gestapo agencies. Thanks for putting that thought into my head. Sure enough my website ranks #6 on google for "acetone peroxide." Beat out by TOTSE! Well, it is an honor just to be nominated :)


20 July 2005: Acetone peroxide – ordinary ingredients for an extraordinary explosive

A UK government clamp-down on internet abuse is being rushed through parliament following the apparent ease with which terrorists can obtain the wherewithal to make bombs like those used in the recent attack on London.
‘Terrorist and extremist use of the internet poses a significant threat,’ a Home Office spokesperson told Chemistry World, ‘We are already working with our G8 and European partners to find ways to tackle the sites and identify individuals and groups responsible. People who download bomb-making instructions and then try to follow them could well be guilty of the new proposed Act Preparatory to Terrorism offence, which we announced on 18th July, and will be taken forward into the new Prevention of Terrorism Bill.’
The internet provides precise instructions on how to make acetone peroxide, the suicide bombers’ weapon of choice. Common household ingredients – paint thinners (acetone), bleach or antiseptic (hydrogen peroxide), and a powerful drain unblocker (>85 per cent sulphuric acid) – can be obtained from hardware stores and pharmacies. Mixed in the right proportions, these ingredients produce white crystals of acetone peroxide.
The explosive power of acetone peroxide (or triacetone triperoxide – TATP – its correct chemical name) is close that of TNT. TATP is highly sensitive to heat, friction and mechanical shock, so much so that inexperienced handling can lead to maiming and death. Anti-terrorism experts report that the compound is known as ‘Mother of Satan’ by Islamic extremists for its devastating instability. It doesn’t say much for any health and safety in the workplace policy of the Palestinian militant organisation Hamas that 40 Palestinians have allegedly been killed while handling TATP.
TATP was, until recently, difficult to detect. It can be combined with other explosives as a detonator, most famously in the abortive attempt by Richard Reid, the so-called ‘shoe bomber’, to blow up a transatlantic flight in December 2001.
The acid-catalysed peroxidation of acetone leads to up to three forms of acetone peroxide, including a monomer, cyclic dimer, and a cyclic trimer.
The trimer is generally thought to be marginally more stable than the other two and is formed preferentially when the temperature of the reaction and subsequent product formation is kept below 10 degrees Celsius. Some of the more unstable dimer is always found associated with the trimer, and TATP degrades over long-term storage, making it unsuitable for conventional explosive ordnance – but ideal for the hit-and-suicide attacks favoured by extremists.
TATP is an unusual explosive. ‘We normally think of explosive materials, like fuels, as highly energetic compounds, releasing their energy content in fast, exothermic reactions. So, excessive heat of formation has been considered to be the key property of all explosives,’ said Ehud Keinan, professor of chemistry at Haifa Technion, Israel. He and a team of researchers in Israel and Germany have been investigating the dynamics TATP explosions. ‘Although TATP does burn when it is set alight, releasing large volumes of carbon dioxide and water, it appears that very little heat is created when it explosively decomposes,’ said Keinan.
Calculations from Keinan and his team predict is that TATP undergoes an entropic explosion, each molecule of TATP collapsing to produce three molecules of acetone and one of ozone. ‘A supersonically propagated entropy burst drives the explosive power of TATP, not the usual heat generated during the decomposition of conventional explosives,’ he concluded. Lionel Milgrom
References
F Dubnikova et al, J. Am. Chem. Soc., 2005, 127, 1146

source: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2005/July/20070502.asp

[Davo]

Strangely enough, the exact intention of the London attacks (if the ragheads did it) would be to destroy civil liberties and encourage authoritarianism in western nations, for which they have so far succeeded very well.

If our democratic nations become more oppressive, it makes the perfect conditions to recruit new towel heads to join the cause, and even convince people who aren't a towel head to become one.

The irony in making laws against "the indirect incitement of terrorism" is that these very laws would do exactly that - indirectly incite terrorism.

Maybe we should prepare flyers, letters to newspapers, politicians and sheeple about our views on such laws, in language that sheeple understand so we don't let even READING about chemistry become a criminal act.

[Davo]

Strangely enough, the exact intention of the London attacks (if the ragheads did it) would be to destroy civil liberties and encourage authoritarianism in western nations, for which they have so far succeeded very well.

If our democratic nations become more oppressive, it makes the perfect conditions to recruit new towel heads to join the cause, and even convince people who aren't a towel head to become one.

The irony in making laws against "the indirect incitement of terrorism" is that these very laws would do exactly that - indirectly incite terrorism.

Maybe we should prepare flyers, letters to newspapers, politicians and sheeple about our views on such laws, in language that sheeple understand so we don't let even READING about chemistry become a criminal act.

[malzraa]

Mega- do you use a linux server to run roguesci? If so, I could help you encrypt the entire hard disk, ram, and swap files with 256-bit aes. Thatway, if the servers do get seized, you can "forget" the key.

[malzraa]

Mega- do you use a linux server to run roguesci? If so, I could help you encrypt the entire hard disk, ram, and swap files with 256-bit aes. Thatway, if the servers do get seized, you can "forget" the key.

[mediumcaliber]

How much more malevolent and oppressive can a law be that criminalizes its citizens for something the government thinks you might do?

Actually, a few mainstream Brits I've argued with would agree that this kind of law is perfectly sane and necessary on principle, and I had a protracted and somewhat amusing argument with one of them about it.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=autogun&msg=1888.10

[mediumcaliber]

How much more malevolent and oppressive can a law be that criminalizes its citizens for something the government thinks you might do?

Actually, a few mainstream Brits I've argued with would agree that this kind of law is perfectly sane and necessary on principle, and I had a protracted and somewhat amusing argument with one of them about it.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=autogun&msg=1888.10

[Davo]

As of now (2340 hours) +10:00 GMT there is a disproportionately high number of people viewing the forum. Just then I noticed 30 people were viewing the special project: nitric acid thread. Previously I was lucky to see 5 or 6. Anyone else get the feeling we are being watched?

Yes Encrypted backups sound a very good idea, but be careful - I know in Britain they're drafting a new law to make it illegal to hold encryption keys from authorities
I uncovered this on slashdot:
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/07/22/178227.shtml?tid=158&tid=93&tid=123&tid=1

[Davo]

As of now (2340 hours) +10:00 GMT there is a disproportionately high number of people viewing the forum. Just then I noticed 30 people were viewing the special project: nitric acid thread. Previously I was lucky to see 5 or 6. Anyone else get the feeling we are being watched?

Yes Encrypted backups sound a very good idea, but be careful - I know in Britain they're drafting a new law to make it illegal to hold encryption keys from authorities
I uncovered this on slashdot:
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/07/22/178227.shtml?tid=158&tid=93&tid=123&tid=1