crystallized NG - need render safe options

[51K]

Been a long while since I posted to the forums. Friend of mine called and said he had located a pile of property out in the desert. Problem being whoever had left it there had thoughtfully left a couple boxes of dynamite on top of this property which had oozed out and crystallized all over what he wanted to recover. I am going out on a trip to view this find in person.

My particular question is this - where would I do some research on basically de crystallizing this NG and in the process desensastizing it? Most would render safe by putting a charge on it and blowing this in place but this is not an option in this instance due to the attention this would bring and the destruction that would be caused.

I realise this is dangerous.

My area of partcular interest is usually commercial fireworks. I am a little out of my normal parameters on this. Any educated opinion or help appreciated.

[Microtek]

NG freezes at 13 C if pure, lower if mixed with things like EGDN. Is it below this temp where you are ? If not, then it probably isn't NG crystals that you see.

[The_Duke]

It is most likely to be Trinitrotoluene if it is not Nitroglycerine, this happens quite alot actually.:eek:

[Microtek]

If it leaked from some brand of dynamite I'd say it was more likely AN, NaNO3 or KNO3.
This is obviously not as dangerous as crystallized NG, but if something is leaking form the dynamite then it almost certainly gets more dangerous than before.

[The_Duke]

Good point about the Nitrates, this is especially true for Ammonium dynamites which contain little NG and large amounts of AN. The reason I mentioned TNT is because I have experienced this once before.

Guessing is getting us nowhere, 51K, who is the maker and what brand name does it say on the box or wrappers? What year was it made? What is the color of the crystals?

[51K]

As it turns out I have been 'uninvited' to participate in this field trip so I will be unable to provide more details.

'treasure fever' does wierd things to some people.

If I hear the particulars later, I will post for discussionary sake.

[panosmies]

If I understood your question correctly, the dynamite is out of date and it will not explote anymore. Yes You can move it, it is the exploding oil that has crystallised over the boxes. It is very common to the old dynamite. Since the 70´s the srtucture has been changed so that they will only loose their detonating power, it WILL NOT become easier to explode!

You see the NG as well as the oils have vaporated out of it. It has also lost its weight about 25 to 30 %. The best and safest way to get rig out of it is to burn it. Just make sure that there are no blasting caps in it. Spread the dynamite not more than 5 cm (2") thick layer, wet it with diesel oil and puy it on fire from the direction of wind. Make also sure that there are no persons or animals within the 200 meter (210 yards).

[Microtek]

Don't listen to that. NG will remain stable ( chemically ) for a long time; they still keep some of the original sample that Sobrero made. It is more than a century since that was made and it has not "changed structure".
Sensitivity of the NG does go up when it is not dispersed in kiselgur or woodpulp or whatever.
NG does evaporate slowly, so some of it may indeed have gone in that manner. If on the other hand the dynamite has been kept in sealed boxes or similar until recently, that will not be the case.

[croc]

I wouldn’t think that u should take any risks until you are certain that it will not detonate.
On another thread I’ve read that NG dissolves in acetone. You could use acetone to get rid of the possible NG and then drag it away of course from a distance. I would suggest using a long rope tied to a vehicle.
I’m not too experienced in the field of HE's so don’t trust my thoughts until someone with better knowledge has considered it safe.

[Unipetrol]

If you don't know if it can explode or not, you should try to blast it(or part of it). If it doesn't explode you can burn it or you can try bigger exploder...or use some explosive to "start" it.
I think that if you aren't mad ecologist that isn't any problem for you to spray it on some void place

[tom haggen]

I found it quite comical that you said something like treasure fever. IMO this situation sounds more like a burden than a treasure. As asked before an estimate on the temperature would make the world of difference on determining how volatile this situation might be. Regardless, I don’t think this cache should be salvaged at any cost. If it needs to be moved you would probably be better off calling the bomb squad then anything else. On another note, I think I recall hearing a story very similar to this on the local news recently here in the Pacific North West, and the bomb squad was infact called in to diffuse the situation.

[atlas#11]

It's not worth your life just to get some "bigger fireworks". Get back and give it a couple rounds with a good rifle, or set up some more sophistocated device to triger a complete detonation. Or just call in the bomb squad, they need work too.

[Diabolique]

Twenty five years ago, there wer over 5000 formulations (brands) of dynamite, not including the slurries. The majority have little, if any, NG.

The local CBD's are the best recourse. If you do not want law enforcement involved, blow in place with a fresh stick of blasting gelatin or 80% dynamite. If this will cause unwanted damage, try burning if less than 50 kilograms are involved. Do not try to move the dynamite unless you ABSOLUTELY certain it does not contain nitroglycerin. If it does, the oil on the surface is likely NG mixed with dust (if your desert is like the one I worked in while in Arizona). Do not allow one stick to slide or bump another.

A story I heard long ago was of a crew unloading a shipment of NG (liquid) from a train. One man dropped a bottle. Nothing. The foreman had him place the bottle on a stump out in a field. Later that day, the stump became toothpicks.

You have some nasty stuff there. Good luck - you'll need all you can get.