Active demonstration resistance ideas

[Jacks Complete]

As the crackdown seems to have started in the UK (I live in a police state that has never been seen before! Hitler didn't have the powers Tony the cunt has now.) and I was reading about the abuse of powers that the police can legally use today.

Section 60 means that the police have the power to "detain a group they believe will become violent". This means they can arrest and legally harass anyone they feel like. Of course, if they do this, the group may well become violent (as they are under attack) and so the police actions can be freely scaled up.

None are safe - "Until now, successive administrations have pledged that there should be no tapping "whatsoever" of MPs' phones, and that they would be told if it was necessary to breach the ban.

But that convention - known as the Wilson Doctrine, after Harold Wilson, the prime minister who introduced it - is to be abandoned in an expansion of MI5 powers following the London bombings."

For far more on the destruction of UK civil rights, see http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/cat_civil_libertyregulation.html


So, how do we deal with this? I know they will come for me one day soon. But how can a group of protesters, forced into a corner to be searched and videoed one by one, deal with this farce called "law"?

One idea for beating the police lines would be to use some of the tactics back on the police themselves. It has happened for years that when teargas is used, the canisters get thrown back at the police. They now use designs where that won't work, because they get hot, ot they disintegrate, or they are fired further than they can be thrown. However, many end up in buckets of water, or are picked up by a shirt or towel.

Since the police are tending to harrass/search/photograph protesters on route to events (talk about a chilling effect!) any ideas need to involve the use of things freely available, or at least easily transported and retained during a police search. Hence opening up with an Uzi or throwing petrol bombs is not the answer here. Avoidance of camera recognition would also be great, but may be beyond the pale. The police agressively film demos, and use this evidence later in court. Throw a bottle, and you are likely to be a snatch target. Throw a petrol bomb, and you will be!

As a starter for ten, to punch an effective hole through a Nazi blockade line, dumpsters have been used as rams. Today, the police will take the bins away, as easily as they snatch the targets they want from the rally. However, the use of a pre-prepared motor vehicle to ram the police lines would allow the protestors to escape captivity. Said vehicle could even be remote controlled. Yes, you will be a target, but at least you will be mobile, rather than contained. (And you might hit a few of them too ;-) )

Sound makers, such as the cheap rape alarms found in the shops now, could be used as a sonic weapon. A few dozen of these thrown at the police lines will certainly upset them a bit. A simple modification to prevent them being killed by stamping or the impact of hitting the ground would be good. A sharp bit of steel would work.

What else have you got?

[TreverSlyFox]

Ok, if your just talking busting up the piggy lines try this:

Snatch a fire hose from an older building, newer buildings with a sprinkler system won't have a fire hose station. You'll need a big adjustible spanner to unhook the hose but the fitting should fit any street fire plug. Most fire hose in the US is 50' long but the hose in buildings may be shorter. The hose should be 2" or whatever the Brit equivlent is. You'll be suprised what a 2" hose can do and the force it has. You should be able to take a man off his feet at 100' - 150' (or a line of men).

You'll need 3 people to work the whole deal though. 1 man to hook up the hose to the fire plug and turn the valve on/off and 2 men to man the hose. 1 man won't be able to handle the hose with full pressure. Charge the hose SLOWLY, opening the valve a little at a time until it's fully open. If the guy opening the valve opens it all at once the men on the end of the hose will go down and the hose will be flying around loose, get hit in the head with that nozzel and it's lights out.

You'll be in camera range so I suggest full face helmets, you might be able to knock the camera guy down but don't rely on it. Even if they catch you the most you did was spray the piggys with water so the charges shouldn't be to bad. I'd steal the hose in another town too if possible and if you can find a place, practice with it before hand.

[Hobbit Porn]

I've always wondered if the roach bombs you buy to fumigate rooms would have much affect?

Crowds often tend to disperse when tear gas is used, so I wonder if the police would act the same way if cans of visible gas came hurtling at them.

I've heard rumours that the contents of the cans are no longer flammable due to safety measures. I have never bothered to check, I know it wasn't that case a couple of years ago when I had to use one in my bedroom, but I haven't bothered to check them again.
If the contents are flammable, would it be possible to use this aswell? Say you throw a couple out, let them spray for a little bit, then throw out an ignition source?

Although, if you did do any of this and were eventually caught, you would probably end up with harsher charges, quite possibly even some of the new anti-terror charges that they've been able to dream up

[Jacks Complete]

Using a roach bomb, if available, would be a "chemical weapon" so yes, expect to get fucked big time. Of course, they would have to catch you - hand them out with pull tabs and have a load of people throwing them, all masked up, and you might be on to something big. Of course, they will have trouble sending 30 people down for 30 years for "terror offences" when they are all white men.

As for the hose idea, we don't have hydrants over here, they are underground "risers" hidden under little flaps in the street. That said, it might be a workable idea. After all, you are trying to escape from an, IMO, unlawful detention, so claiming self defence at the trial would be a fun one for the jury (assuming you can swing a jury trial!) since there were hundreds of armed men attacking people with big sticks whilst wearing body armour... ;-)

[me234]

My suggestion? Smoke bombs. Then again that could just be because I'm getting into them again, and, well, now I'm prejudiced.
From what I can tell, you're wondering about things that can enable you to get away from cops yes? Well smoke bombs can do one of 2 things for you:
If set of near your people, they can obscure any movements made by you: they won't be able to see where you escaped to if they can see anything behind this huge cloud of smoke.
Secondly, if you can get one near them, they will again not be able to see you. You can then escape, or ram them with your truck mentioned earlier. They probably won't run too much 'cause they can only hear something approaching, they can't see it until maybe 10/15 meters away at the most.
Another advantage of smothering THEM in a cloud of wax particles (the type of device I'm partial towards), is that it's harder for them to maintain their lines when they can't see too many people on either side of them, thus it'd be easier to break through their lines 'cause each individual is finding it harder to get 'on-line' as an effective defense needs.

Advantages:

-Cheap (always good)

- A 100g device can completely prevent someone from seeing something ~10m away. 100g will also produce a really large amount of smoke. A 1Kg charge would be huge! And it wouldn't cost more than 500g KNO3; 500 sugar; 250-300g candle wax.

-It'll be easy to rig a charge with either a time delay or a remote initiation source. So excluding camera's (which you have a lot of over there), you have a chance of not being associated with them.

Disadvantages:

-Wind has a big influence on these things. A light wind can be handles through shear volume of smoke, but a heavy wind could really wreck your day. Plus, sometimes the wind changes - just ask WW1 veterans

-Anyone with IR goggles could probably see right through the cloud. Unless wax particles reflect IR (doubt it). Hey, does anyone know of any particulate matter that can reflect IR, maybe some could be incorporated into a device to defeat IR goggles etc.

-Subjecting yourself and a mob to a smoke cloud could cause panic if not everyone is prepared for it; can cause confusion among your ranks, and various other bad scenarios.

If you are participating in a planned-route march, you might be able to judge where the oink oinkers are going to be positioned when any confrontation might begin. Knowing this you could prepare sites some time beforehand, and set them so that the devices go off when and where you want/need them.

I've seen too many news clips of angry mobs throwing stones at cops and being beaten back. Now imagine if you will, an angry mob approaching police lines. The cops are tense, they're waiting for the fighting to start.
But something seems off... What? "hey, is that a mist coming in?", "Can't be...can it?". gradually their vision diminishes until they can only see a few meters ahead of themselves.
The superiors get antsy, they order the line either forward or backwards out of the mist, and quickly, the mob's approaching after all.
Nobody can see more than 5 people on either side of themselves; the line starts to break up... But nobody can ell cause THEY CAN'T SEE ANYTHING.
Suddenly you've got the police panicked, probably all trying to pull on gas masks while trying to keep the line cause they fear nerve agents (ignorant fools).
And then a, well, lets face it, a relatively, well organized angry mob attacking the them as they're panicking and their lines are starting to break even before the attack.

Personally I think it sounds OK.

Or...

They're chasing you, sprinting after you as fast as their riot gear will allow. Suddenly they start having difficulty finding you in this freak mist. Then they can see you. Or the fact that you're not in front of them anymore, but rather have run down a side alley. They're giving up when...
Story A:
they decide that you're not worth it, nor are any of the other people that seem to have disappeared before they could fill their arrest (harass people who are allowed to be there) quota.
Story B:
COUNTERATTACK!!!
I can't see anything...Where are all these stones coming from?... Is that a baton I see swinging for my hea...
Hey Jacks, what do you think?

Sorry it took so long to get across.

For anybody reading this: this is a work of fiction, and is not meant to be used in any unlawful way. The author cannot be held liable for the use of the above suggestion that may or may not be contemplated by deviant characters that I feel certain do not occur in this here Forum.

P.S. I haven't broken any laws in the last 9 years...

[akinrog]

I believe one thing which must not be overlooked in any active resistance movement is police dogs. That critters (believe me if the demonstration is a big one they shall bring more than one) may render your day into a nightmare. If we discuss active resistance ideas then one must also prepare for police dogs.

In my country's case, trained police dogs are used very much and bastards depending on the mood of their human partners can go directly to the throat of the demonstrator. And they shall most probably not be effected by any smokescreen you shall improvise, but maybe some sort of tear gas may effect them.

Maybe in such a case, it would be handy for the demonstrators / insurgents to have some sort of improvised paper gas (like vinegar / black pepper one) to repel police dogs. Regards.

[Chris The Great]

I would think that hot wax particles will throw off IR goggles quite nicely.

[Alexires]

Now, mind you, this is just an idea that occured to me when reading this thread. Imagine mixing chilli powder with the smoke bomb, or running the hot smoke through a 'chilli chamber' that will allow the chilli to be picked up and carried along with the hot smoke. Dogs are going to love that.

Also, for IR goggles, I was thinking a metal oxide along the same lines as Titanium Oxide. Let me regress. In sunscreen, I believe the active ingredient is Titanium Oxide or some kind of metallic oxide, as is the 'Zinc Block' that cricket players sometimes wear. If powdered zinc was added to the smoke mixture, then upon ignition, zinc oxide would be produced which may act to block IR radiation. I've looked around the net a bit, but it isnt overly helpful. Another avenue would be to dispers something in the smoke powder that holds its heat well, and continues to radiate it for maybe 30 seconds after ignition, thus confusing infrared goggles.

It was just a thought, probably with loads of holes. Please be nice *grin*.

[me234]

Actually, not bad ideas guys.
But now, for something else.

Be warned, this is a very long reply (~5 pages), but I have a lot to say, so find a quite corner to read this in and grab some coffee.
P.S. I might not always seem to make sense, that happens sometimes. Sorry.

So I was sitting around pondering what Jacks Complete said in this thread, and it hit me in a sudden, and most gradual way:

The Crackdown has already happened.

It happened years ago I imagine, we were just too selfish to admit it.

You see, we all anticipate the Crackdown. Some with trepidation; some with enthusiasm. NBK with a sneaky grin. But what we all anticipate is mostly correct, and yet mostly wrong.
I am aware that I sound like I’m loosing it, but give me a bit of time to explain.

What we all THINK the crackdown is going to be, see, is this one law, this one act, this one attack on us that will prove conclusively that it has, in fact, actually happened, and will give us an excuse to put all the things we’ve learnt on this Forum to use.
We all expect that it’ll be that one law that will be just a little too harsh for the people of our respective countries (although saying it that way implies that we all signed our names to some piece of paper that says we promise to actually obey all ‘our country’s’ laws and rules etc.). We all expect that that law will shock the people awake (ala. Ira Levin’s ‘This perfect day’) from their dream like states where they are happy to have people track them through their cell-phones, and are glad that people are reading through their every purchase ‘because debit cards are safer than cash’. Why, because they think it makes them safe.
We keep expecting the Forum to be suddenly outlawed, and us all suddenly arrested for knowing things that some government puke decided we shouldn’t be allowed to know. And we expect that that fact that a whole ‘community’ was made illegal, and that people were arrested and made to disappear simply for being informed about a particular branch of science will shock people awake, and that this attack on us and our Forum will be that final straw, and will give us that final reason to act. And we expect that the people will follow us because they know we are right.

If the government could just be stupid enough to invoke that one single law that will make the people stop and think, and realize that they need to do something, and that us, we the members of this Forum, are not the terrorists they used to think we were, that in fact we were just awake for longer than them. And in truth, because of what we know (what they used to think was ‘bad information’) that we could be of more value to them than almost any other single person, because we can help them to fight the G-men.

In utter and hopelessly miserable truth, we’re not waiting and expecting this to happen. We are hoping.
Because hope is generally the only thing you have left when you know deep in your heart that it’s not going to happen. Ever.

The governments of the world will not do that to us in one foul swoop. They will make us appear to be dangerous, make the sheeple scared of us. Then no-one will help us. We will try to start a war to regain our freedoms, to stay alive. But we will be on our own. And everyone here knows that. That’s why we are all afraid to leave our lives as we know them and start this thing. We keep waiting for someone else to start it, so that we can simply join and follow. And be lead. Just like all the other sheeple in the world. We too are trying to avoid reality, to avoid the fact that we will be arrested one by one, and the rest of the world will be glad when it happens.
We cannot begin to start a war with any hope of winning unless we have popular support., which we won’t get.
We can only make plans in the mean time to avoid being arrested/killed/same thing.
But to do that would be to admit that we are well and truly along. To make plans would be to wake up ourselves, and actually actively do something about life. But we are too afraid to. We keep hiding form the world, expecting that nothing bad will happen to us, because “it always happens to someone else, never us.”
At least Jacks Complete is making plans. And we all should follow his example. MAKE YOUR PLANS NOW PEOPLE, DOING IT ON THE RUN WILL GET YOU DEAD!

And yet we keep hoping that they will enact the ‘ONE LAW’.

Why do we hope that?
Because way back when, the British did it in America, and the sleeping population in America was awoken to the sounds of war. And they were glad to join in. And we hope that of all the revolutions that have happened in the world, at least one could happen for us too.

But herein lays our tragic fate. And this fate is two-fold.
The governments nowadays are less arrogant than they were back then. They are not as self assured of their importance anymore, they realise that silly things like tax laws can throw a citizenry over the edge into revolution like the American war of independence: THEY ARE A WHOLE LOT SMARTER NOW THAN WE WOULD LIKE THEM TO BE. Plus they are, well, not quite afraid of us, but afraid of losing their hold on us. So anytime they feel that loss coming on, they either make their source of fear disappear (of course they’re not afraid of us as a person: a man can be killed, they are afraid of our influence, our legacy, anything that we can do that will continue to affect them after we are removed); or they enjoy some misdirection.
How did the USA’s infamous Patriot Act get passed? They distracted congress et. al. with an up-and-coming war, and hurried through a totally different and unrelated bill they knew congress would like, and stuck the Patriot act onto the end were nobody ever reads.
Misdirection: If everybody’s looking at a war, then they’re not looking at home.

And the second twist fate has in store for us?
Back then the people were not asleep. They were awake. They had only just fairly recently moved into a brand new land, and they were still nervous and vigilant. They were not asleep when the British started pushing them too far. The British just assumed they were.

As for us.
Neither of these 2 factors is in our favour.
The sheeple of today are afraid. They fear.
But not for their freedoms.
They fear for their lives and their comforts. They have become soft: a power blackout in a civilised city today will more likely draw complaints of cold showers than of uncooked food. Name anyone you know nowadays that believes in something worthwhile (and actually right, not like someone who believes in disarming the people ‘cause they think that will stop crime and other such crud). How many of them would be willing to die for that belief.
They ARE asleep. Teenagers listen to ‘trance’ songs. Songs were the beat is so heavy and rhythmic that it dulls the senses. After being in a club that plays that type of music, you walk outside and you can’t hear properly, you can’t feel a touch properly; physically the sound waves have bombarded your skin so much that the nerves are numb.
And besides becoming physically entranced and almost asleep, you dance your same ‘unique’ dance to the same beat. Why? Because people listen to this music so that they can do repetitive things that doesn’t require them to think, and allows them to avoid thinking.
They WANT to be asleep.
Routine kills the soul. Doing the same thing day in and day out will kill your soul.
You switch to automatic to avoid your boring, sad reality. You walk around, you listen to your teachers, your boss. But like a lecture from your parents, you learn to listen while being switched off.
And the sheeple go around every day with their heads hung, looking at their feet. Never looking around. Walking while asleep.

Admit it. When was the last time you got up early to watch the sun rise (excluding you guys form the north/south poles of course). When was the last time you realized how good the air smell in summer, or spring, or after a rain, or basically anywhere, any time that isn’t in the city.
For the most of you, and I hope I’m wrong, but probably it was a long time ago. Or maybe yesterday, but you’re so switched off you don’t remember it.
How may of you have looked back on a day, and not had a single memory of it? Shouldn’t there be SOMETHING memorable at least once a day?

The Sheeple are asleep, and they DO. NOT. WANT. TO. BE. WOKEN.
I hate to use a movie reference, especially on this forum, but the idea has been around a long time before the movie so I’ll make an exception.
In The Matrix (I choose to ignore the collective groan form the audience), Laurence Fishburne’s (spelling?) character said (to paraphrase) that the people are imbedded within the system, so hopelessly dependant on the system to keep them asleep, and let them avoid reality, that they will FIGHT to protect their unconsciousness.
It is a sad but true fact. What happens when someone bombs a coffee shop for a reason. A reason they feel is worth killing for. The sheeple call for some action (most likely police action/government legislation). Some might even form a lynch mob and try go for some vigilante crap because they feel hard done by; because someone disturbed their peaceful sleep.
If someone’s family is killed in the same bomb and they get angry and go out for revenge, that I have no problem with. That is their choice, their right: It was their family after all.
But when people get upset over the principle of someone trying to express themselves in a, very weird I guess, way. THAT bugs me.

Like I said, they will form a lynch mob and go out and kill someone to preserve what they actually think is a good way of life. They’ll kill to avoid any changes, anything that might disrupt their routine, anything that might cause them to find their souls.


OK, I think I’ll avoid the ‘justification of my statement that routine can kill the soul’, and the ‘how hard it can be to find it again’ talks for now.


That covers how the sheeple will rather kill us themselves than contemplate the messages we need them to hear.

Now for the second factor: The one we’ve all been waiting for; the big boys; the G-boys (audience “boos”, at least I hope they do!).

I mentioned earlier how “dem gov’ment folks ain’t as plum dumb as they used t’ be” (says grand-pappy without his teeth in). Well let’s look at things in the way of a case study, lets go back to old Betsy, to the American war of independence. Yes again.

Back then, the Brits didn’t go about things the smart way: they just did what they wanted, when they wanted (yes, a strikingly similar policy to today’s governments). Now imagine if that Brit government, was today’s Blair, or Bush, or worse, Hilary Clinton and Sarah Brady! Yikes.
What would they have done? They wouldn’t have just said “Give us more money, I mean taxes.” No sir, they would have faked a couple of Indian American attacks on a couple of towns with money potential, ones that were related to the big cities. Maybe a town run by some ‘important’ person’s son or nephew etc. then much, heartfelt, interest would be expressed by the British Powers-That-Be in the safety of the women and children of families living near those areas. People would be asked to hand in their weapons so that the bad guys wouldn’t be able to take your guns away and use them on your family. “And, oh, could you please be a dear and encourage cousin Jethro to hand in his as well: he does live near those areas, but don’t worry, our 5 hour police response time will save him should anything bad happen near there.”
People would be systematically disarmed, and systematically encouraged to have faith in out very deficient police numbers.
And next thing you know people are asking why the police aren’t helping as much as promised. Then the Brits would have know it was time. One big mass murder, people will crap their pants, and you tell them that they Really need to fear for their safety, and since they don’t have guns anymore, but the bad guys do, they need to give their local governments more money so that more people can be hired to join the police and keep them safe.
And once the taxes have gone up, the horrific attacks would magically stop and the police would be heroes, and whatever they said would pass on to become scripture.
The now Sheeple would have various national British holidays declared in celebration, and to distract them from the fact that, despite the lack of attacks anymore, their taxes haven’t gone back down to what they were before. And if someone asked why that hadn’t happened, the local British Government Official Spokesman (they were all men back then) would say that the increased funds they the people/sheeple (the official would specify the people were getting the money, not the government of course) were now gaining from the new tax laws would be put to use to continue their protection of course. And yes, of course they should still be worried. Don’t worry, we killed the bad guys, but be worried just in case.

This is the way that governments bring about new laws and other manner of cesspool dredge into being: they tell us it’s for our own safety. We wouldn’t want to lose out hot showers again now would we? That’s a good girl, go back to sleep.

There is at least one other way in which the G-boys can defeat us and bring about the demise of sheeples’ souls: Why did the Americans revolt against the British? Because the British rushed it. If they had introduced higher taxes a tiny bit at a time, it would have taken a lot long to get what they wanted, but the sheeple would not have noticed, they would have only seen from one tax law to the next. “Oh, they only want this one little thing, that’s not too big, let’s give them that inch”. Then one more little law. The sheeple do not see all the laws combined, they see each law individually, unrelated to all the others, in that way each little law seems reasonable. They compartmentalize everything in their lives, keep each unrelated to the next. In that way they are like the frog that is slowly boiled in a pot: the frog only sees one little degree Centigrade at a time, the frog never sees that he is sitting in a pot of water at 90 Celsius and getting hotter. /what the frog sees is that he is sitting in water: he’s happy in water. He’s in a pot: that’s a little bit odd, but by no means unreasonable. The water is a touch warm: that’s a little bit odd, but by no means unreasonable. The water just went up 1 degree: that’s a little bit odd, but by no means unreasonable.
What the frog does not say is “hot dang I’m getting boiled alive here.”


For those who have managed to read this far: This IS NOT an incitement to violence or whatever else you Jackboots hav determined I all your infinite wisdom should be illegal.

[simply RED]

Quite Wise said, me 234!

Something to add:
The sheeple do not have the inner need, the inner desire to create something new, to deal with something importaint or see something no one did.
They only need do survive (as biological units). A peasant will not wake up early to see the sun, but to water his crops!

""""You switch to automatic to avoid your boring, sad reality. You walk around, you listen to your teachers, your boss. But like a lecture from your parents, you learn to listen while being switched off.""""

A FACT!!! And how couldn't it be!!! Corruption Rules the JUNGLE!
Assholes get the warm chairs just because they payed/are family/friends to the boss /are from the rulling polytical party/ and so on...
This is ONE HUNDRED percent fact in my country! And steadily becoming a fact in the whole NEW WORLD ORDER. (in the Roman empire was the same)

Absolutely right! The sheeple most possibly will not take side, or they take the side that promises them peacefull, sleepy life. Thats the animal instinct!

But We are not alone. Our Weapon is Stealth and the Shadows are our allies.
(combined with SMART use of the new technologies this becomes impressive weapon)

[me234]

EXACTLY!!! Thank you simply Red! Well put!

That's what it's all about, that's what everything in life is about. That is what we were put on this earth to do: To find our inner needs, to find what we have passion about, and to do that. What would life be without passion? An apathetic sleep, the life of a Sheeple. How many people do you know that just don't care, about anything? They are dead inside.
Bad things may happen to all of us tonight for all we know (touch wood and pray it is not so), but at least we lived inside! (I suppose I probably wouldn't be so enthusiastic about it after bad things have happened for a while, but, hey, at least I'm allowing myself to be enthusiastic about it now)

That's what the world needs. That 'inner desire'. That NEED for new experiences! That feeling deep within your gut. That one that all but forces you to dream up a synth just because it's so, so cool. You can have nightmares about them coming for you in the night, and that'll give you the urge to just stop doing the things we do (i.e. dream). But despite a most profound fear of the consequences, we do it anyway. Why, because we are driven people. The members that just keep coming back, the ones that tried almost ever single day to get in Here when we had 'The Login Troubles', they are the dedicated ones, the ones with that 'inner desire'
It's more than just a desire; it's not a luxury; it is a NEED.

And something else you mentioned that I forgot about.
The new world order.
People might call us conspiracy hacks, but they don't know. True, there may or may not (guess which I believe) be a secret organization that's running things, BUT, G-boys do confer with each other, help each other out, and they all know that patience is the key, the key to boiling us alive. They also know that what happens in one place affects another, simply because the world isn't as big as it used to be.
So they don't have to be in a secret organization, they just need an analyst to tell them "If we do x, and can get them (insert country of your choice) to do y, they we'll have more of the population by the nuts".
They don't even have to fabricate those incidents that cause people to throw their freedoms at the feet of their oppressors, they just need the media to emphasize certain things above others.
(I refuse to call them rights, rights are what you decide to give yourself that no-one can take away; for example, we here have rights, they out there - the one's not like us, the undriven - have freedoms; 'freedoms' because they think that they are optional, and they are optional, simply because they let them be / think they are, they're so asleep they'll believe what ever they are told so they don't have to wake up and think for themselves)

What we need to do is talk to other people who have similar inner needs to us, not so much most of the boys and girls over at the APC for example 'cause they've banned TALKING about things that may be illegal, 'cause they're afraid it may get them in trouble. I think they seem to forget that pyro is illegal in most countries. Anybody that has needs like us (obviously not THOSE needs you perverts). The problem is, how do you find those like-minded people without exposing yourself to the world?
And yes, I know I criticized people for being afraid of exposure, but I'm afraid, and I need more people before I might be able to be effective in anything (guess how many cops are gonna buy me drinks and ask me what I do for a living this Friday night, he, he!)


The only things in life that we are truly not allowed to do are the things we LET ourselves get told we're not allowed to do.


Make plans people, make plans. But don't post them here, unless for disinformation purposes. Post ideas that might be useful to others, but be careful not to give Them an insight into Your psyche, into your own plans, and especially the way your mind handles problems like E&E. Don't forget, we're here to help others like ourselves with their problems, but not to mess up our own plans in the process. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU POST ABOUT, they will read those posts, and determine your personality; how you go about making decisions; how you solve problems; what you are likely to do in the future; and how best to crack your mind.
Be careful out there people, but make your contingency plans and hope you never need them. "be polite, be courteous, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." I believe I owe TrevorSlyFox for saying that.
Once again, thank you for puting things they way you did simply Red, it directly inspired my above post.
P.S. Once again, nothing above is intended to be illegal, just useful.

Crap, sorry JC, gone off topic again, will be back later to get back on topic.
Simply Red, I suggest you and I carry on this discussion in the Crackdown thread. I suspect I will want to discuss this further with you.

[Chris The Great]

I think you just knocked me fully awake there me234. I was a little groggy but after you poked me a few times, I put some coffee on.

Now, just a warning before you read this post. This post isn't a normal RS post. This post is telling you to do something. This post is telling you to stop sitting around and talking and to do something. We talk and we talk, but not much worthwhile to our cause actually gets done. This needs to change. You've been warned.

Two problems with your exceptional insight.

We don't need the public to win. The Bolsheviks proved this in 1917. All you need is a dedicated core of people and take out the strategic targets. The peasantry proved mostly indifferent to this. I think we will find a similar situation today, I doubt many sheeple will care when we burn down SWAT team equipment buildings and government offices. They'd care if we blew up a coffee house, but what the hell does that accomplish for anyone? Nothing.

Second is that planning on your own is USELESS. We may win without the public but we WON'T win without each other. The only possible way we can hope to change the system is to get together and do something big. We can't have a bunch of people, with no overall organization, running around doing who knows what, and expect to accomplish much of anything. Maybe one of us will gas congress, and another will burn down some police stations, maybe someone will blow up a military base, but without a organized effort by EVERYONE, worldwide, it won't amount to anything. Now, we can't very well just go "Hey guys, my name is Matthew Brown, my phone is 546-1394, I live at 1234 65th street, Calgary, Alberta" but what we can do is form cells.
We NEED to be able to get together, and we need to have a organization. Someone like Mega might have contact info for lets say 5 people. Those 5 people can contact 5 people etc. Should anyone get caught, they warn their contacts, who then tell their contacts before destroying their list. The cops get 6 of 10,000 at the most, assuming that they catch the 5 who beat it as soon as they warned others. Their contacts will be able to help them get to safety.
We need to have people making plans through PGP. Big plans, which get sent out to people who are actually going to do it. We need to have some way of having those plans known to people only beforehand. Most likely, a cell leader will get the plans and present them personally, face to face, to his troops in a briefing beforehand. No for warning for the piggies.

I've heard a lot of talk about blowing up civilian targets (blowing up a coffee shop as you said me234). We CANNOT DO THAT. EVER. PERIOD. The public WILL lynch us if we do that. We need to get a statement out that we will never target civilians, only government, military and police targets, just when this starts. We must not attack the public, because they will lynch us. The best we can hope for is that they do not go after us, which if we aren't directly hurting them, they won't. We also need to call it something catchy, like "The War on Fascism". We need to appear as appealing to the public as possible.
Remember, we are not terrorists. Terrorists use terror and random killing, we shall use coercion and efficient destruction of strategic targets to accomplish our goals. We don't want the public to fear us, we want them to fear the government. We want the public to like us, or at least to think we're crazy nuts who aren't out to kill them, but not terrorists and killers.
Always remember, we're trying to fix the system. We are not trying to destroy it completely, it hasn't gotten to the point were that needs to be done (1984 is when the whole system needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt).

What we need to do is burn down the SWAT teams equipment, bomb their trucks, etc, BEFORE we do something. Lets face it, against a SWAT team, we might do some serious damage but removing the SWAT teams ability to fight us beforehand not only makes it MUCH easier and far less risky for us, as well as saving lives which will make us look ALOT better to the public. Heck, we might even get some of them to join in. How are the police going to stop a bunch of protesters if all their riot gear got destroyed in a fire the night before? How are they going to respond if you planted bombs in all their helicopters?

After reading this forum for a long time, I get the impression that we expect, when the crackdown comes, to be on our own and having to fight off a swarm of SWAT team members. This will only happen if we do not work together and if we have royally fucked up our plans. We mustn't go alone into this conflict, I can't stress that enough. None of us could hope to do much on our own. I might be able to gas a SWAT team before they send in the military, and I'm sure you guys could as well, but if 10 of us got together we could do ALOT more, and it would be a lot more useful. We need to go on the offensive, it's the government who should be waking up surrounded by us, with every police station and piece of SWAT team equipment within 200 miles burning down from arson during the night. We need to get 50 people, and after removing the police states ability to respond, we need to capture congress and get them to repeal the patriot act and all the other tools of the police state and push through our own act which will guarantee the rights and freedoms everyone deserves.

THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. And it needs to HAPPEN. We can't just go talking about it. We need to make contacts, we need to get organized, and we need to do something. Maybe not right now, I'd say nearly none of us are ready for it, but soon. We need to get money flowing (I'm sure some meth cooks here could fund a lot of the initial planning), explosives made (and stolen from factories since we'll get a lot more than way), weapons procured, and plans drafted. And we NEED TO ACTUALLY DO IT.
We don't all need to jump up right now, but we need to get a framework in place for coordinated action, and we all need to be ready to fight a war within a year or so.

And you know what? This post IS inciting revolution. This post IS inciting people to overthrow the government. I'm telling you to go out, break the law, and destroy millions of dollars worth of government property, to be violent, to fight back. I'm telling you to do it, for a worthwhile cause. And you know what? If they martyr me for it, the only thing that will do is give us that "one event, that one attack" which will show you guys that the crackdown IS here, and has happened.
You asked if anyone is willing to die for their beliefs. I AM willing to die for freedom if we start this war. I AM willing to start it, if you're looking for a leader. I'm even willing to be a martyr to start it, if you guys take up the torch when I fall, if need be.

So, the question is, is anyone else with me?
Are you going to stand up for what you believe, or kneel down and live in servitude for the rest of your life?

[simply RED]

Remember Chris The Great!
You are of absolutely no interest to the government. They just DO NOT CARE about you! Do not be so provocative! DO NOT MAKE THEM FOCUS ON YOU!
Try to remain stealthy! Learned from here, you are equal to at least 10 normal "soldiers".

Because new era of warfare is coming! A single man or a small group can not be targeted with nuclear wepaons. Nor by tanks, planes, helicopters, (what about aircraft carriers hahaha!)... The conventional armies are gonna be useless soon!

Better step on a snail than on the tail of the tiger!
me234, do you have ideas how to seek those people with ideas like us?
(or something else interesting more for a private message)
Better write me a mail
sulphur@abv.bg
Is the private message system working now?

Or directly post to enrich the thread :) .

[Chris The Great]

You are completely right. However, I get so tired of all this talk, and all this "dreaming". I want to live in a world were we don't have to dream or relate SWIMs experiences. I want to live in a world where totalitarian governments fear their citizens, rather then their citizens fearing them. Maybe I'm just experiencing "Wilson Smith" syndrome. Perhaps the thought police will be able to correct that. And by doing that, give the one definate event to show the craskdown has happened. I'd rather not get martyred but if it gets the other 13,000 of you guys to do something it's worth it (bust me out while you overthrow big brother as well).


Organization will be the key to anything, whether it is just putting together some demostrations or full out rebellion. I think we should be able to contact a large portion of this forum online at the minimum, and have local contacts. The problem of course is how do you know a RS member is not undercover?
I don't know, hopefully someone else has an answer other than just talking to the members who have contributed to the forum.

However, we're so used to thinking "on our own" I have serious doubts as to our initially effectiveness as a team. If we do something, we can't all break and run, every man for himself, as soon as the bullets start flying, to fight another day (so we can break and run again then too as well).


Some more ideas for demostations: If you need to escape, for example after throwing roach bombs, drop into the sewer system. Light off a huge amount of smoke bombs to cover it and then down you go. You'll akready have a gasmask. Have someone down there with other equipment such as lights and a HCl/Al type bomb to discourage pursuit. Come up at a preplanned point with a getaway vechile. You'll also need protective boots, preferably hip waders. You don't know what the hell people are dumping down there these days. Obviously, you can't wear that stuff to the demonstration, so that is why you'll need someone to give it to you once you climb down into the pipes.
It would be a good idea to go through your route beforehand to make sure that it will work. The map might show a passage but it might be too small for you to get through.
You can get a map of the sewers from your local cities website. I was looking at mine, and you can literally go anywhere once you drop down one manhole. Stinky and mucky, and it won't work if it's raining a lot and the strom drains drain through the sewer, but it will get you out of there without any pursuit. No piggy is going to jump down right after you, especially if they don't see you go down and there is a cloud of HCl waiting for them.
The dogs can't go down their either.

Police dogs are easy to dispose of. When they set them loose, wrap your jacket around your forearm, and crouch down. The dog goes for your arm, especially if you make it look like you have a concealed weapon (which they are trained to go for). They bite the jacket, which shouldn't hurt TOO much (might ruin the jacket). Beats getting bitten on the throat anyday though. Then, you smack it on the head with a nearby rock. Or, your buddy hits it. Or you use a pipe and break its neck, or whatever. Once it bites your protected arm, it isn't moving and makes an easy target.
They key thing is not to fear them. You have to be confident you can take that dog down without any trouble.

[Alexires]

I agree with Chris.

I look around, and I see the brainwashed, I go to the city, and watch to see how many people actually are alive.

I constantly fight it. The feeling that I should just give in, plan a life like everyone else and be content with all the bullshit they feed me. My friends talk about getting a group together, of people with like mind. Its a good idea, but I have watched and seen them talk and talk, yet they deny their words with their actions. And myself. As I have said, I watch and watch. I'm tired of watching, I want to act.

So fuck it. I'm in Australia, South Australia to be more precise. Email me, and we will meet up. I dont know if doing that is allowed on the forum, but those few previous posts has got me fired up.

I'd be happy to fall for the cause. Of course, I'd be more happy if I didnt have to, but still, you understand. This is one of the few things that makes me feel alive. This is one of the few things I would be willing to lay my "freedom" and my "life" on the line for.

When you refuse to give in with all your heart, only then do you transcend your humanity.

[Ropik]

Sad, but true. They already use the "make people fear them" tactic in my country. You are reading newspaper and then you saw something like "Police arrested man that had 23 guns in his garage". The article is like "He had guns, he had unbelievable amount of ammo, there is suspicion he might made some explosives and that he was going to kill people. Many books and articles regarding making illegal things including explosives were found. He was playing airsoft and training close combat. Look at him, he is a complete nutter. You want him arrested." And that's it. He didn't do anything illegal(often, there isn't any note that these weapons was illegaly posessed by him, but if they are, they always write it, because it make him look badder), he is just knowledgeable, armed person. If he doesn't have very good lawyer, he will end being charged with some weapon-related crimes, having too much ammo, having too much knives, having too much knowledge... you got the idea. And he will be thrown behind bars. End of story.
I would say: Make several copies of all informations, books, articles, video et cetera you have. Burn them on DVDs. Store them safely and away from your home. Make a cache of weapons and explosives, or materials to make them. Know a good lawyer. Know laws regarding arresting, self-defence, explosives and weapons, so you can prevent at least SOME tricks that can be played on you. Learn some close combat, so you won't be disarmed if someone take away you gun, and learn how to make guns from normal materials. At least zip guns, so you can take better weapon from somebody else's body. Know people with similar hobbies in your area, so you are warned if somebody gets jailed. Be careful, watch yourself, walk softly and carry a big stick. Boomstick, preferably.

[me234]

Gentlemen, wonderful conversation so far, I'm really enjoying this: It's good for everyone here to see that they're not alone in being severely ticked off.
I'm starting a thread in this same section for more of the same discussion, I'm thinking Jacks will probably appreciate us not cluttering the other useful info on this thread.

But back to this thread's topic.
Alexires: I like the chilli idea, he, he, very sneaky. The poodles'll love it:cool:
I would, however, be hesitant to add any metal powder to a smoke bomb mix that used some kind of dye/wax for the smoke. High enough temp.s could burn away your smoke screen. Shouldn't be a problem if you have a few, somewhat inferior, normal KNO3/Sugar smoke bombs with the metal powder in them for the oxide delivery. Or maybe beforehand just premix your preferred metal oxide with the wax.
All that being said, I'll try adding a touch of Mg powder to a wax mix (don't have nearly as much as I'd like). I can't remember right this moment who suggested it, but I'd like to rethank them for the idea, and I should be trying it as soon as I can find someplace new where people won't mind a huge cloud of smoke aimlessly drifting about.

[Jacks Complete]

Some great posts on this thread, even if it isn't quite what I was after.

Be careful with the incitement, the last thing we want is to be shut down under the "PRATRIOT" act or some UK hate speech law.

I want ideas for taking the power back, rather than running away. 500 organised people on a march SHOULD NOT be arrested and/or "detained" if it is a peaceable protest. That should, in itself, be an illegal action by the state. When they perform that act of violence, how should the crowd defend itself and its liberty?

I want to scatter the enemy forces, and make them well aware that sometimes, if you abuse enough people, some of them can and will fight back more effectively than calling names or a lawyer.

[simply RED]

Better add ammonium fluoride NH4F or difluoride NH4HF2 to a smoke maker.
This material evaporates or decomposes to HF - as effective as phosgene, even more...

Something should be done of course, the question is - how to do something significant rather than sacrifice yourself for nothing.
Of course everyone IS FREE to act as he/she wants !!!

Nothing more than we do here can be done nowdays (at least where I live) if it is possible to be done where you live - then do it! Global threat requires a global strategy anyway...

[bipolar]

A lot of the time, as has been documented in the seatle, WTO protest, and most likely is a usual tactic. The feds housed a group of crazies that called themselves "the black glock" a self-proclaimed "anarchist group" or something and while the other thousands or so protesters were peaceful, they put on black masks and starting running around busting store windows, spraypainting PIG on all the cars and throwing stuff at cops.


While this was happening the COPS were forced not to respond at all, even if they were justified, and apprehend the people actually responsible. Then they used this as an excuse to declare a state of emergency in seattle. After that the COPS were thouroughly pissed off and unleashed and free to use all kinds of chemicals and beat all the innocent protesters. During this time the black glock members dissapeared into a empty building they had access to provided to them downtown. So they provoked the police and avoided the wrath so the innocent protesters would have to take it.

Protesters were then all detained and taken to a FEMA detention center without justification and without any rights. Many were permanently damaged from the chemicals and being beat up.

Then the city of seatle gave them(the black glock) free housing to live in afterwords. Refused to arrest them or even kick them out of the apartments.

This is the common practice of planting agent provocoteurs in the protests and they'll fire a slingshot at a cop from within the crowd and run, then it gives the police justification to open fire with rubber bullets and all kinds of stuff.

You must police your own protest. Protesting is an advanced art of psychological warfare it is very complicated.

Look at the experts of protesting and psyops with the most likely CIA orchestrated Ukraine protesting. They have pictures of old ladies sticking flowers into holes in the helmets and sheilds of the riot police.

Most of the effect of the protest is the press it gets and weather positive or negative. and How you portray it to the rest of the population, because then they won't be as scared to come forward also that they see you are being effective.

I have a lot more to comment on this, I have been avoiding posting because I wanted to post so much, but I'll at least start with this.

[Kamisama]

** message deleted **

[me234]

Bipolar's right Jacks, if they plant someone in the protest to give the oink oinkers an excuse to up the stakes, then you need to be in control of the mob (control - funny coming form one of us). About the only place I can tolerate control over people (to a certain extent) is in the military, there it's needed. If you want your demonstration to go well, and make THEM turn and run, then you need to be that well organised. Have the mob split up into several platoons, and these into sections, or some such. Have appropriate platoon and section leaders to direct them. Make sure that everyone in the demonstration knows what platoon and section they're in, along with who the leaders are, and a basic game plan so that no-one is surprised about what'll happen when the action starts, and so that they can back out early if it's not for them instead of running away when things get heavy, thus possibly starting a mad dash for 'safety'.

I suppose the problem with these ideas is that we've, almost to the man, assumed that everyone else in the protest will be someone like you. But if this is not so, then life becomes much harder for you, and those like you that are in the crowd.
Maybe you can do what the cops and some 'extremist' groups do, plant a few people in the crowd to induce an attack on the people illegally trying to stop you ding what you should be allowed to do. Have a march going, some smoke devices set up (wherever your analysis of the situation dictated they should be placed whenever you finalised the plans for the march), some fire hoses would be nice I guess, but maybe not essential.
If you're going through a fairly well built up area, a couple of people on roof tops armed with bottles of chloropicrin and bug bombs, ready to drop onto the anti-protestor protestors (oink) could induce a bit of a mad fumble for gasmasks or the like amongst the oinkers. If your people all had gas masks, or some other preventative measure, then that would be wonderful, but alas improbable.
OK, what've we got so far: smoke bombs to help with confusion (make sure your people are ready for them); teargas to be used on the normal teargas throwers; a few powerful hoses would be great, but you said unlikely for you, so we'll ignore them in your case. OK, now what?
I guess, if you have the smoke screen over the oinkers, then some stone (read ROCK) throwers could do some damage if the boys-in-blue couldn't see them coming. The problem with smoke screens over THEM, is that, if you need to attack, the same disadvantages they feel will be experienced by your guys as well. I would advise against smoke screens over any area you plan on attacking: they are trained, mostly your guys will not be, thus the disadvantages of confusion and loss of leadership control will affect your people more.
If you can organise a loudspeaker, you could try to confuse the cops by giving them orders to move around or whatever in your most official sounding voice. Nah, won't work, even if they think it is someone with rank, they might notice the fact that the voice directing their actions is coming from the crowd of protestors.
Propaganda for the benefit of the pigs might help a little bit. Explain to them that what you're doing should not be illegal and all that crap, try to reason with them. I sincerely doubt that any of them might concede the point to you. But, if you keep telling them that you are a peaceful protest, why are they trying to stop you, you are a peaceful... then ATTACK! You might be able to catch them slightly off-guard.

Man I'm sleepy. Sorry guys, my ideas aren't quite up to scratch today. I'll get back to you when I have something better.

[Gammaray]

Hi, use a fire extinguisher, fill it with chickenshit ( you can get it from a chickenfarmer) and than give the cop s a shower the bastard s smell than like a skunk ( butyric acid work all so and you can use a small sprayer, but it is expensive)

[Hobbit Porn]

I kinda like the idea of showering opposing people with liquid shit, fertiliser or something equally as offensive to the nose. However, I think using a fire extinguisher would be more hassle then it's worth.

Most fire extinguishers that I've encountered only have a range of a few metres, so that would mean you'd have to be fairly close to the riot line to utilize it. Also, if the nozzle on the extinguisher turned the spray into a mist, you'd have the problem of spraying yourself and others with vile smelling stuff, which would make it a lot harder to flee and remain inconspicuous enought to get away (which I think is what Jacks was trying to get ideas for when he started the thread).

I think a simpler and probably a lot easier way to deliver the stuff would be to use a super soaker, or any other water pistol that uses compressed air to shoot the liquid. It's the same principle as a fire extinguisher, except less bulky and probably a lot easier to use.

[billybobjoe]

Bees...Thousands of bees. Bee farmers don't lock their hives, so get a bee smoker, smoke one of their hives at night and then scrape the dormant bees into a screen covered wooden box. A wooden box that will break when thrown on the ground. Toss it off a roof into the police ranks. My first guess would be that several thousand pissed off bees would cause confusion in their ranks as they sting every bit of exposed skin.

cons: Theft under a thousand for the bees, unless you just buy them.

pros: I don't think there is a law wacky enough to cover throwing bees at some one.

[Jacks Complete]

See http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showpost.php?p=74713&postcount=18