Smokeless powder

[ddog]

I have searched the forum for answers on this so dont reply with learn how to search or something like that. What is smokeless powder, and what ingredients are in it? Is it flash powder, BP? I know this is a little under your guyses level, srry.

[cutefix]

For your own benefit,I will explain to you in simple way.The ordinary black powder when ignited produces so much smoke which will make old time muskets firing, visible from a distance.Guns of the last century and until now uses a propellant which is different form the old gunpowder.,Upon firing a gun using ammunition filled with smokeless powder,you will notice less smoke cloud,or the smoke is light,thin and not visible from the distance.So for ordinary person it appears “smokeless” if he is accustomed to seing the smoke from black powder fired guns.For its formulation it is basically nitrated cellulose with stabilizers.Flash powder are different and more similar to the black powder in formulation ,but it contains chlorates,aluminum,sulfur etc.depending upon the formula.The black powder contains potassium nitrate,sulfur and charcoal.Try reading The past Forum posts and replies,other files, books etc,and you will find valuable information that will satisfy your curiosity.Just be deligent on reading and be careful if you do experiments.You will be come pyro literate in due time....

[ddog]

thanx that helps

[SafetyLast]

If you dont find it by searching the forum use a search engine I typed in "double base powder" in my search engine just to see how many related pages would come up and the number was over 56,000!

heres a couple good ones to go to

http://www.friends-partners.org/mwade/articles/doulants.htm
explains the history of double base powder and its use in rocketry by NASA

http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
explains different powder shapes and has a good burn rate chart

[simply RED]

Well, i saw the double base propellant containing 50% NG. Is it solid of plastic, i think it must be litte plastic. I've mixed NC and NG(i've used more NG than NC) and they have formed plastic mix after plasticizing with acetone and evaporating the acetone. I've never seen double base powder industrial production...Is it completely solid? Or it is slightly plastic? How it keeps the NG in it and it don't make the surfaces wet with NG(my plastics put on paper made it slightly wet of NG). Are they solid because the NG quantity is low?

[This message has been edited by simply RED (edited August 14, 2001).]

[cutefix]

This is a typical formula for double-base propellant from the US Patent4,416,712:

50.4% nitrocellulose (12.6% nitrogen)

38.1% nitroglycerin

6.1% diethyldiphenylurea

5.1% ethylphenylurethane

0.3% wax.

A prepared mixture of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin containing also about 20 weight-percent of water was mixed together uniformly with the rest of components in a Werner & Pfleiderer kneader for at least one hour. The mass was then passed three times through a disk kneader. Then the material was twice granulated in a granulating screw press, and the granules were than dried in a hot air current at 60.degree. C. for 12 to 15 hours. The granules thus treated were extruded in a dual screw extrusion press to a material in strand form.
For more details about double-base propellant compositons check US Patent 4,251,261.
Hope this will satisfy your question....

[Mr Cool]

Are the diethylediphenylurea and ethylphenylurethane flash reducing agents, corrosion inhibitors or stabilisers for the NC? I'm just wondering of what could be used in a home-made version.

[Bitter]

How about diphenylamine ? Would that work ?

[Mr Cool]

Yes, it'd probably have similar effects. But where d'ya get that from? I was trying to think of something a bit more common!

[cutefix]

Diethyldiphenylurea or ethyl centralite is the nitrocellulose stabilizer.Ethyl phenylurethane is a plasticizer/binder.For more info about the purpose of stabilizer check this out: http://www.cinadra.com.br/propellantstabilizers.htm
I think its difficult to find an alternative easy to obtain replacement for home manufacture of smokeless powder.

[simply RED]

Really good info!http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif
Will 4-5% Centralite reduce the power of detonating gelatin(95%NG 5%NC)?

[This message has been edited by simply RED (edited August 16, 2001).]

[Mr Cool]

Plain old urea will mop up NOx, so perhaps this would have at least some stabilising effect on the NC?

[cutefix]

Adding non explosive material at acertain level will reduce the explosive power ,but at few percent it will be hardly noticeable unless you measure its detonation velocity and compare it with the unstabilized material.Besides blasting gelatin is already very powerful….
I find that urea had some effect,but these material tends to diminish propellant burn rate.It is less effective than its derivatives(centralite) and diphenylamine so I think the adding rate will need to be higher….

[Fingerless]

Most powder used in shot shells is double based, I believe. Get a pound of Bullseye smokeless powder-the double based shotgun variety-put it in a large pipe and DETONATE it with a blasting cap. The power is awesome. Don't even bother lighting it with a fuse.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by simply RED:
Well, i saw the double base propellant containing 50% NG. Is it solid of plastic, i think it must be litte plastic. I've mixed NC and NG(i've used more NG than NC) and they have formed plastic mix after plasticizing with acetone and evaporating the acetone. I've never seen double base powder industrial production...Is it completely solid? Or it is slightly plastic? How it keeps the NG in it and it don't make the surfaces wet with NG(my plastics put on paper made it slightly wet of NG). Are they solid because the NG quantity is low?

[This message has been edited by simply RED (edited August 14, 2001).]</font>