Octa Nitro Sucrose (if at all possible)

[atlas#11]

It's been kinda dead in here for a while, I have seen this compound mentioned on here before but I think I remember hearing alot of criticism about manufacturing it.

I don't even know if it's possible to have this compound stable for any ammount of time but I'm quite intrigued, I searched the forums and google, I didn't see anything on rougesci, and google only refers to a two year old mad science thread discussing a controversial sludge as a product. If any one has any experience with this compound then please let me know. If it's prodcedure is common knowledge then I'll feel like an idiot but I'll have learned something.

I would immagine a procedure would be difficult as the sulphuric acid in a mixture would dehydrate the sugar into carbon mush. Unless nitric acid was used some how, which would make it more difficult for me as I would have to "borrow" my schools condensing apparatus to make some nitric.

I am planning a small test tomarrow just to give it a try, along with a usual batch of ETN just to ensure some sucess for the day, I'll post any results.

[The_Duke]

Check out the old thread here (http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2494&highlight=sucrose)

Also, for more “primary sources” info check out; Chemistry of Powders & Explosives by T. Davis (COPAE), The Chemistry & Technology of Explosives by Urbanski and The Encyclopedia of Explosives & Related Items (PATR 2700) by Basil T. Fedoroff.

[atlas#11]

How did you find that old thread? I guess I'm mentaly incapable of using a simple search function.

Any ways, I'll do a quick preliminary reaction today, when the sun comes out and warms it up around here.

And another thing, What exactly does the Sulfuric acid do in the reaction with HNO3? I understand that it acts as a catylist of sorts and dehydrates the reaction, keeping out excess water. I was wondering if another acid could be used as the sulfuric could decompose the product and reduce yeilds.

That is probably wishful thinking, but my chemistry teacher was probably telling fish stories during that section so I didn't get the lesson. Not that I'm complaining about him though, they no longer offer chemistry class at my school. So they no longer inventory the glassware/chemical supplies. Which turned the school chemistry locker into my own personal storage unit.

[Bert]

According to COPAE, this is difficult to purify and has a relatively poor storage life even when properly purified. It was used industrially as an ingredient in low freezing dynamites at times when the price of sugar was lower than the price of ethylene glycol or whatever other feedstocks for nitrates that were then being used to lower the freezing point of dynamites. The commercial practice was to nitrate the sugar mixed with the glycerin. The higher the proportion of sugar, the poorer was the heat test of the finished explosive oil.

[me234]

I made some of this stuff once. And only once.
Firstly, sulphuric acid chemically removes a water molecule form a nitric acid molecule. This then leaves NO2+ as a result. This is the actual nitrating agent. It can replace hydrogens on a benzene ring, or the hydrogen of a hydroxy group, as in cellulose, sucrose, or methanol etc. Gives nitro- and nitrate groups.
Secondly.
You can make nitrate the sucrose just like most other solid poly alcohol nitrates, e.g. MHN, ETN etc. You simply dissolve the sucrose in you nitric acid (55% with a spoonful of KNO3 worked for me) and thereafter cool it and then add your required amount of sulphuric acid, bit at a time.
The final product was a bit touchy to isolate. As a result (I had to scoop and scrape it out) I didn't wash mine too thoroughly.
When they say it's unstable, they mean it: I know I didn't wash mine too well, but still, it started turning green within a few hours (I think 2/3). Yes, it was green, not yellow, not brown, green. But it had this really sweet aroma, especially once decomposition started, pretty pleasant actually.
I kept it at ~5 degrees C for a couple of weeks (maybe a couple of months IIRC), no real change in the degree of decomposition after the first couple days if color is anything to go on. It kept alright I suppose, if you don't mind the coloration (freaked me out almost daily:o ). Made the fridge smell really cool though, nothing like waking up to the smell of various NOx's and associating it with a runaway nitration. Now THAT will really wake you up in the morning he, he:eek: