True Capabilty of commercial cattle prods

[Red Beret]

I have been doing alot of searching regarding cattle prods being used against humans. The reports generally seem conflicting. Some people claim that they merely feel like a 'mild tingle' or a bee sting, while others (including a discussion I had with a stock agent) claim that the jolt can be incapacitating.

Now, I fully understand that these are not tasers. But I am not currently able to obtain tasers, and I have the opportunity to purchase a variety of cattle prods, including the hand held type. I can also purchase the "power unit" for one of the full length prods, which I could possibly make into a hand held unit. I would like to hear from anyone that has one of these, or had one used against them, so I can see if its worth the money. I'm having a friend make a 200kv taser with plans I got from the net so I'll see how that goes.

Thanks for any replies anyone can give.

[nbk2000]

I had one back in the early 90's called a 'Tru-shot' (I believe). Red rubber hand with a silver metal cylinder sticking out of it with two copper prods on the end. Took 3 C batteries.

Stuck it in my palm and hit the button.

BIG mistake.

Shot a shock through my arm and up/down my spine that threw me for a loop for a few minutes. :o

Never had opportunity to use it on anyone else, but I did hit a pit in the nose through a fence. You should have seen that fucker whirl and run away yelping!

I'm sure it's just like with stun-guns. Some brands/types are junk and others ass-kickers. All you can do is go with some well-known/establised brands and avoid anything no one in the trade has heard of.

Ask a rancher or cattleman what brand they use. If it works with 1,000 pound bulls, it'll do the trick with a human for sure. :)

[Red Beret]

Thanks mate. Thats convinced me to get one. The one I'm looking at is called a thunderstick, I think its a 4000v one. It takes four C size batteries.

I was looking at some small taser sized ones, but apparently the voltage is quite a bit lower. I can get the electric module for the thunderstick, which is almost half the price. So I think I'll get it and put it in a narrow PVC pipe so I is more compact and robust, I'll use two nails for probes. I think even the hand held types would have a nasty effect on humans, as you said, if they are a quality brand and have a reputation for working well on 1000lb cattle, they're surely going to stop an average sized man. Especially if you go for the neck, head, face etc.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how I go. ;)

[simply RED]

The optimum voltage for an electroshock is 10 kV. Remember - amperage kills - not voltage. 100 mA through a human is considered the absolute lethal dose.

I have to wait the spring vacation anyway - to post some warm schematics on the question.

[Red Beret]

OK, thanks. So if 10kv is the optimum voltage for an electro shock does this mean it is better than say, 35kv or higher? Look forward to those schematics. Cheers.

[Chris The Great]

A higher voltage allows it to jump through more clothing, etc, to get to hte target. However, voltages like "600kV!!!!1111one" that a lot of tasers advertize are useless. Firstly, that would in theory arc about 4 feet through the air when the prongs are two inches apart, and second, it won't do a thing to make the taser more effective than the cheaper "300kV" one. I highly doubt they even come close to those voltages anyway.

As for 10kV vs 30kV, I'd personally go a little higher than 10kV but it really won't matter that much, it is going to fuckin hurt whether it is 10 or 30kV.


100mA being lethal assumes a 60Hz current, 100mA of DC current is painful but probably not fatal.
However, 1A of 60Hz current, you might survive, since your heart will stop during current flow and then start beating normally again (most of the time at least). The 100mA at 60Hz is fatal because it causes your heart to begin to beat irregularily.
The defibulater fixes this by blasting it with 10 amps or so to stop and then start it again, hopefully beating normally.

I've touch a fully charged 3kV capacitor (by accident) and despite feeling my heart cleanch up along with every muscle on my body, I'm still alive and fine, although it did burn two holes at the entry and exit points. But those healed up and except for the "OH SHIT" reaction and panic that occured knowing how I nearly killed myself, I was fine.

The point here is that 100mA and above is not always fatal, it depends on too many factors to just say "this is fatal, this is not."


A little off topic but it is best to clear up when something you are handling might be fatal or just hurt like a screaming bitch on fire.


I'd be interested in those schematics as well, I've always had a small desire to make a taser but I never looked for plans or had the desire strong enough to decide to design my own.

[a_bab]

The voltage for any stun gun on the market is no more than maybe 30 kv. As stated before, there is a lot of crap about what they can do. I got one myself, and I tried it on me. I pointed it to my arm, as I guessed the leg would have hurt much more, and I was right. It's not a pain you can't stand, but it does hurt. It's also nice to see the muscles contracting. I guess that a long exposure to these pulses would not be a good thing, because I got only a discharge at a time (maybe two).

About making such a device, well, I'm afraid you need some special equipment and materials. The coil needs to be filled with some good electrical insulator resine, and under vacuum in order to avoid the air pockets.

[Red Beret]

Ok,thanks for all the advice. Just one final question, because of you experience a-bab (or anyone), what effect do you think a hand held 4.5kv cattle prod would have on the average bloke, if discharged into the neck or upper body? Enough to make him think twice about hassling you again?
Cheers.:)

[Daeman]

id say yes, like was said above, if it has any effect on a bull (which i can personally assure you, they do) it will have an effect on a 150 lb man.

course, i suppose if youre feeling a little "insufficient" in the personal defense area you could always buy two or three and duct tape em back to back ;)

[a_bab]

The cattle prod is designed not to "put down a cattle" but to create pain and induce movement. The stun gun is used to incapacitate.

I'd say it would hurt alot, and you may gain some advantage over the victim from the initial shock of the cattle prod use, but it wouldn't incapacitate the victim. Why don't you try it on yourself? :)

[simply RED]

"if it has any effect on a bull (which i can personally assure you, they do"

You finally tried something on yourself?

"course, i suppose if youre feeling a little "insufficient" in the personal defense area you could always buy two or three and duct tape em back to back"

Like the fused swords in "Final Fantasy" movie? You could use the device to force somebody check your grammar :) .

------------------------------
You need no special materials to make ultra powerful electroshock. 2 transistors low frequency multivibrator - one transistor amplifer class D and one powerful transistor for amperage adjustment. Followed by a high voltage coil used in cars (ingiting the fuel in the engine) (there are fairly small models too). This followed by Grec scheme with 20 mA - 10 kV diodes. The whole thing charges 20 n - 10kV (I used 7,5 kV) capacitor for 1/10 of the second. Final voltage 7,5-8 kV.

Consumation 9-10V ; 1,5A = 15W
Deadly...

[Red Beret]

Everyones advice has been very helpful, thanks. I have ordered a "Magic Shock stock prod" with 29cm shaft. Apparently it has twice the input/output ratio of its competitors, with a built in buzzer for psycological effect. Takes four C size batteries.

If I do have the chance to purchase a proper stun gun, can anyone reccomend a brand and model that actualy puts people down, as they say they do?
Also I have some plans from the net, for a 200kv one, if they dont work, can anyone give me some plans that are proven to work and put people down?
Also, some people in the US are selling stun guns on ebay and claim to ship world wide, is it worth the risk trying to get one sent to Australia? Possibly dismantled....
Thanks greatly.

[Alexires]

Hmmm, I don't think it would be worth having one sent into Aus, when you can easily make your own. A little electronics equiptment, a little research, and you wouldn't have to worry about the pork knocking.

I'm fairly certain that anything sent into Aus gets quarantined and checked, it just wouldn't be worth it.

If your in Aus, and worried about self defence, try learning a martial art? The problem with things like stun guns and knives and such is that they are no use if you don't get them out in time. When a punch to the head can knock someone out, thats a mightly lot faster than trying to get a stun gun out.

Just an idea. Don't get me wrong, I'd love a stun gun, even if I never used it.

[Jacks Complete]

A stun gun is a force multiplier. A mere touch should repel anyone, rather unlike hitting someone, which is rather hard to do effectively if you aren't ready, trained, or in stance. Time is also important, if there are multiple attackers.

The likelihood of being killed by a shock is almost zero if the charge does not pass across the heart. Hundreds of people are still given shock therapy every year for depression, milliamps across the head, which affect the brain and (probably) hurts massively, but doesn't kill. Many people are tortured with electric, too, and it rarely kills them in skilled hands, not matter how much they want it to.

Once the high resistance of the skin is breached, the body can be modelled as a bag of salty water. Current flows perfectly well through it, and causes involtuntary activation of the muscle fibres, easily over-riding the millivolt signals from the nervous system.

High frequency AC will cook you without a reaction, and you can let go of the wire, as long as you do it before you start to smoke. Regular 50/60Hz AC will break you badly, but I'm not that up on the physical effects. However, few people are admitted to hospital due to electrical shocks. They are either fine in a moment, or dead. DC is the one that kills best, since you cannot release your hand or any other muscle, and the system is overridden.

The Taser type systems use very high frequency AC to break down the skin resistance, and clothing resistance, and then switch down to a low powered DC signal once conduction occurs. This ensures that it is quite safe, while the subject is commonly subjected to massive muscle contractions.

The newest systems use a pulsed DC system, which is safer, and has an effect like the TENS machines you can buy. Rather unpleasant, as the high frequency DC pulses don't simply travel by the easiest route, and so muscle exhaustion occurs over a wide area.

Air taser breaches the skin resistance by stabbing through it with two barbed arrows on two little wires, btw.

To kill someone, charge a regular capacitor and use the current in that to pump amps into the target once conduction is made by a high voltage spark. Or use a cap charged to 4000 volts, like a laser supply. Get one hand on one contact, and one on the other. You might be able to hit the head and conduct to the (common) ground, too.

Corrections expected.

[Chris The Great]

Regular 50/60Hz AC will break you badly, but I'm not that up on the physical effects. However, few people are admitted to hospital due to electrical shocks. They are either fine in a moment, or dead. DC is the one that kills best, since you cannot release your hand or any other muscle, and the system is overridden.

AC kills most efficiently as a 60/50Hz signal will mess up the regular heartbeat at very low currents, 50mA to 100mA across the chest will kill, even if you let go. It also causes you to get "stuck" when your muscles contract, like DC. I am not that knowledgable on DC effects, other than that it burns intensely at 10mA, but I do know that 60/50Hz is very very bad news for the heart. It is rare for your heart to beat normally after a good shock of 50mA or more...

To kill someone, charge a regular capacitor and use the current in that to pump amps into the target once conduction is made by a high voltage spark. Or use a cap charged to 4000 volts, like a laser supply. Get one hand on one contact, and one on the other. You might be able to hit the head and conduct to the (common) ground, too.

Corrections expected.

As I have mentioned I touched a capacitor at 3000 volts and it did not kill me. The heart contracts and then beats normally again afterwards. Same thing as a defibulator. It is horribly unpleasent, but not a 100% kill thing. Now, maybe if your capacitor is really really big, but then it gets really bulky and heavy.

[Thork]

I have owned several stun guns and a few cattle prods. I had rather be touched with a stun gun. The cattle prods hurt more. I've been to gun shows where they sell stun guns , promising that they will knock someone down, disabling them. When I ask to see it and stick it to myself several times, they seem to get mad(especially if a crowd is around) :) .

[Red Beret]

Thanks All.

Alexeris- I dont want a stun gun as the be all and end all, I am quite experienced in martial arts, but want some back up, incase the person simply wont go down, or if I need to put someone down quietly.

I'll just stick with the cattle prod for now and do some testing. I'll also see how my associate goes with the 200kv stun gun plans I gave him.

Thanks again.

[nbk2000]

As with any weapon, there's always a defense:

http://www.thorshield.com/

Protects against TASER and cattleprod.

Video demo:

http://www.thorshield.com/images/ThorShield.wmv

[Red Beret]

Hmm, thats rather interesting.
I got my prod!
Tried it, (on me)- OUCH! :rolleyes:

I dreamed I was still looking at getting a stun gun,
I had a plan to order one from US, so that worst case scenario I lost my money and thats all.

I dreamed I could get these brands, can anyone confirm the effectiveness, uselesness, ones to avoid etc?

Here they are (the ones I dreamed of):
Black Cobra
Talon
Stunmaster (seems good)
Panther
Z-Force
Raptor
Streetwise

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Red Beret.

[nbk2000]

The only one I'd use would be TASER, and not the 'air' taser, but the X26 or M18. Expect to pay over US$300, but you get what you pay for.

If you know an animal doctor or rancher, get the animal control TASER. 4x more powerful than the human TASER (lethal), and longer range too. :)

Expect to pay the $PRICE$ for that one!

Cattle prods are for torture and should be restricted to such use, as only TASER's are (IMO) worth using in a fight.

[Red Beret]

Thanks NBK I will look into those two tasers.

I got bored today so I fried a few cockroaches, using my new toy. I think the back of the head and also the face would be the most painful places to use a shock prod, and the groin area of course:eek: .

I have been reading reports from amnesty international etc, and some people claim to have been shocked for so long (with a prod) that they passed out. Cool....;) And when the batteries wear out, they put fresh ones in and keep cookin'.

[Jacks Complete]

I have to wonder why they don't buy a mains adapter for them...

I've viewed that Thor video. I suspect it's just a metallic weave undershirt, which simply offers a better conduction path than the skin. Digging around the site shows a picture of what looks like a woven material, but it says it is plastic. Now, we can determine that it isn't a simple insulator sheild, as the air taser prongs would go through that easily, and still shock, and it also claims effective against microwave DEWs, so it must be conductive.

I figure, since the only colour that it comes in is black, it is a heavily carbon (graphite) doped plastic sheet.

If someone with a Taser/prod/whatever could run a simple test on an electrostatic computer part bag, I would be interested to see if the effect of having that under (or over) regular clothing would be the same. If that doesn't work, try a layer of tin foil with the conductive plastic behind it.

Let us know what happens - I can't legally get a stungun to try it!

[sprocket]

I tested the shielding properties of electrostatic bags with my 30kV ignition coil device. The test setup was simple. I put my left hand in various antistatic bags, grounded it by attaching a crocodile clip to a torn edge and tried to touch the HV terminal of the device using the (hopefully) shielded hand.

First up was a Richmond Drypack 3030. It's a typical semitransparent bag with a thin conductive layer between two plastic layers. This bag did not work well at all, quite an unpleasant experience. I got shocked all over my hand.

Next up was the 3M 3370 "Moisture Barrier Bag", This is a fully reflective bag with an Aluminium conductive layer in between a PE and PET layer. I thought this was a winner. However initial testing (before I put my hand in) showed that the bag just melted when subjected to high voltage. The thick outer layer is isolating the aluminium too efficiently so that when dielectric breakdown occurs the plasma arc gets so hot that all three layers melt and you're left with a hole in the bag. It might work against low power high voltage devices like prods and tasers though.

Then there's the cheapest type of ESD protective bag. Unbranded wide conductive grid bag. I'm not even sure the "condustive" [sic] layer is conductive. At least I didn't get it to conduct anything without turning it into coal.

The final test was a large (for motherboards and such) semitransparent bag, much like the first. There's no brand name visible on this one. This test was successful. The bag completely shielded my hand from the HV and I didn't feel a thing. Unfortunately the conductive layer took heavy damage and I doubt it would survive longer than a few seconds, but again, this is probably an effect of my relatively high power device (30-50W plasma arc). The attached photo is from this test.

In conclusion I think it's viable to construct a taser/stun gun/cattle prod/whatever protective suit using electrostatic protective bags. Even better protection could be obtained if the protective layer isn't in contact with your skin.

[Chris The Great]

This might sound stupid, but Al foil comes in 200 foot rolls at the local grocery store and I think it would take a lot more current than an anti static bag.

The problem is that it is (very) noisy if you're trying to move around. Though I think the anti-static bag would also be noisy.
The commercial anti-taser device shown probably uses metal fibers woven into the fabric so that it is conductive to HV but still very flexible and quiet (maybe it says this on the site but I didn't see anything on how they did it when I last glanced through there).

Still, depending on the situation, a layer of Al foil might come in handy.

[Red Beret]

If I was to sharpen the probes to a fine point (on my cattle prod), so as they could penetrate human skin, would it increase the effectiveness? I thought of this because thats how the TASER works, penetrating the skin to defeat the high resistance. Or making a probe firing device to attach to the prod? Or would I be just wasting my time?
Its easy enough to sharpen/attach fine points to the prod though......

[puffo]

hi,
I have a sreetwise 900 (900000 volts)but I don't know if is the best choice for the non lethal self defence..for me the best choice is the pepper spray with the shot up 4 meters,because it isn't good to have a contact with the aggressor,and the spray are small light and very effective choice for a use to distance =air taser.

[Red Beret]

Could you test it on yourself (or someone else) and tell us the effects? I think those street wise are a little on the cheap side, but I may be wrong.

[g-would]

just pick up one of those calapsable batons 12'',there small enough to fit any pocket&with just a flick u got 12''s of hurt&i have 17%oc spray,i don't know how many times i've got sprayed by accedent but i know it sure works!! i had a squeggy kid come to do the windows on my van,i asked him please don't i'm broke,he starts tring to pull me out of the van i give him a couple of punches next i've got 20 punks at my window 1 spray&no more punks!!

[atlas#11]

Has anyone on here ever been hit by a photo flash capacitor from a disposible camera? It hurts like a son of a bitch, and the caps arn't that big, or expsensive. Just go out and buy (or pocket) a bunch of disposible cameras and take out the capacitor and wire it up with a pusbutton and a couple C sized bateries to charge the caps. I reckon four or five of those capacitors would put a serious jolt in anyone who took the hit. Mabye even use the origonal camera case for the circut, it would look like a camera, and it could get passed airport security (mabye).

Hmmmm... Mabye you could use some of those crazy powerfull caps that hold like a farad each that are like the size of a quarter. Get a bunch of voltage built up by having them in series and you might be able to incapacitate someone with them. (or vaporize the flesh between the terminals). Home built tasers sound like fun.

[the_twitchy1]

It's a little off topic, but when I was a kid I worked in an electronics repair shop. One day, this sweet little old lady came in with a hunter-orange contraption that she wanted to get 'fixed'. Turns out she was a professional dominatrix and it was a cattleprod that she was using in her dungeon on customers, and they kept passing out! She wanted us to step it down so that she'd be able to use it on them without knocking them out, causing them to miss the fun.

We refused because we didn't want to be liable (plus it'd be more hassle than it was worth... I told her to go get a commercial taser-type device instead), but it made me think. Anything capable of making a cow move will definately do something harsh to humans.

[Red Beret]

I have been doing alot of research in cattle prods, as TASERs are hard for me to get. What I have found, and been told, is that like anyhting, some are real ass kickers and some are shit. NBK recomended to just get the biggest one you can, which makes sense. The one I have is mid range model, and really hurts. I have only tested it on the back of my hand, so use on a larger muscle would, I think, be worse.

Ones worth looking at, are the highest voltage hot shot prod, I forget the colour. The product guide say to be specially carefull, as the output is "serious stuff". I dare say that a good 4-5 second application of this would fuck you up. Cant say if you would pass out, but its gonna hurt like a mother fucker, and may cause attackers to back off.

While I think of it, has anyone in australia noticed if tasers or stun guns are available at all? I dont mean legally of course. If anyone could help I would be very gratefull. It occurred to me that if you can get a 9mm for $500 then surely there must be more exotic weapons out there?

[FUTI]

Police in my area tested batons with extra taser-like ability. I remember that once I saw on TV they use it against rioting demonstrants. They prefer to place it on the back of your neck just under the head before they triger it. By the look of it...that temporary paralyses victim. So if you are planning to use this for self-defence even the poor one is the good one if used properly.

[Red Beret]

I have come to a number of conlusions regarding cattle prods as defensive devices, through the information generated in this thread and through testing I have done. In point form;

1. Buy the most powerfull you can afford, there is no such thing as overkill with these (credit to Nbk).

2. Go for sensitive areas, such as the face/head, back of neck and the groin. Larger muscles will produce larger contractions when hit, equalling more discomfort.

3. People who have never encountered these will be startled, wondering what it is and if it will kill them, especially in the dark. Use this to your advantage. Follow up with more shocks and hand to hand attacks, be unrelenting in your attack.

4.If you can grapple, lock the attacker up or get in close and when you apply the prod, don't stop. While they are worrying about the shocks, deliver kick and punches to vital areas. If you apply a headlock, jam it in thier face, around the eyes and the temple. The throat area feels awful if shocked too.

That's about all I have to say at this point. But the bottom line is, they are useful if deployed well and quickly, but they won't do the job of a TASER. Just make sure you get one that shocks continually, none of this three second burst shit.

[Jacks Complete]

Hit them in the thigh muscle and they will drop to the ground, as the leg kicks them off. Chest is the worst place, really, and if they are wearing a vest it might have no effect at all, and they are still free to hit with arms. Also, you might stop the heart, which would be bad, generally.

[nbk2000]

Don't forget to sharpen the prods so they penetrate through clothes and into the skin.

This greatly decrease resistance to the current, ensuring maximum shock. :)

[electricdetonator]

OK,
cause I got kicked out whilst trying to send my reply now the very short version:
[LIST=1]
There's no stungun/taser/cattleprod with 900,000 Volt !
Or the airgap between the electrodes must be around one yard !
The maximum current going through the heart is 50mA which means a voltage of 50 Volts will be deadly (see e.g.: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current#Electrical_safety' )
Stunguns are usually build in two parts, an oscillator driving a neon/strobe transformator who'll drive the HV cascade, marx generator or gap driven second transformator.
You can build such a thing very simple for your own:
First part:

[9V]+
| 1:38 neon transformer
+---------------+-----##---------o
| /\ ##
| --- ## ~ 345 Volt
| | ##
| +---+-##---------o
| |
+--------+ +-----+
| NE 555 |------|< NPN
+--------+ +
|
Multivibrator [GND]
(can be setup with potis to gain frequency, duty cycle or else control)


Second high voltage part:


o----||-+----+-||-+----+-||-+----+
| | | | | |
/\ --- /\ --- /\ ---
~345V --- \/ --- \/ --- \/
| | | | | |
o-------+-||-+----+-||-+----+-||-+
|
~2070V ! |
|
o----------------------------------+

When you want to gain more then the 2 kV I suggest you put a marx generator directly behind the cascade ;)

Have electrified fun and don't blame me when you had an "accident" with it !
Hope it'll work now,
electricdetonator

P.S.: Preview shows me that all spaces within my ASCII schematics are gone now :(
So just click on quote when u want to see them ...
Any hints how to put them correctly into the forum ?

+++++

Use the CODE tag to enclose ASCII drawings. No way to really preserve the formatting, though, as character spacing differs from your font and the code font. NBK

[mydnight]

I have been doing alot of searching regarding cattle prods being used against humans. The reports generally seem conflicting. Some people claim that they merely feel like a 'mild tingle' or a bee sting, while others (including a discussion I had with a stock agent) claim that the jolt can be incapacitating.


Actually, both points of view about cattle prods are true -- some of them do just tingle, and some of them are painful enough to put a full-grown farmer on the ground. It isn't necisarily due to some brands being better than others, either. Cattle prods, like tazers, are rated at many different power levels, because some of them are meant to either punish the animal or deflect a bad situation(I.E. cow starts charging you or some similar situation) and some of them are simply meant to "encourage" the cow to move along at a slightly greater speed. The different colors that they come in are to reflect the power ratings to the (sometimes barely-literate) farmers. The red ones are especially powerful, I have seen them used on sheep as well as cattle, and wool is an extremely insulative substance.

[The Frogge]

Got looking at old bookmarks after first reading this thread and tracked down the following link www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/index.htm. He describes how to make a taser and what resembles a cattle-prod is under the listing of dazer.

[Anareon]

Although AC is more dangerous than DC because the fluctuation polarity causes muscles to contrat and relax, meaning you can let go every other cycle. DC is different and if strong enough it makes the muscles unable to relax (or contract). This not only incapacitates a would-be assailant, but also tires the muscle tissue.

A cattle prod is not designed to cause severe contraction or tiring because:

1. A bull is damn hard enough to move at the best of times, let alone when tired.

2. If the mucscles are tired using electricity, it causes anareobic respiration, and so produces lactic acid within the muscle tissue. Therefore, when used in a slaughterhouse (abbotoire) It would cause a buildup of lactic acid. Lactic acid causes tissue to become tough, which is not what you want if you're making steaks. (most) Farmers try to stress the animal as little as possiblebefore slaughter for the same reasons

[AiKiCrow]

I had one back in the early 90's called a 'Tru-shot' (I believe). Red rubber hand with a silver metal cylinder sticking out of it with two copper prods on the end. Took 3 C batteries.

Stuck it in my palm and hit the button.

BIG mistake.

Shot a shock through my arm and up/down my spine that threw me for a loop for a few minutes. :o


I did the exact same thing with that same model! My mother is a dog trainer and she used her "Tru-shot" cattle prod (exactly the same as above except the cylinder was made of white fiberglass) to break up fights between large aggressive dogs with thick fur.(It is the ONLY tool for the job!)

One day I decided that I just had to find out what it felt like for myself, with much the same result as nbk2000, with the addition of a forced heart contraction and my entire left arm remaining numb and tingly for two hours.:eek:

I remember thinking afterwards that the pain was distinctly different from the many other types of shocks I had experienced, including tasers.
The pain was sufficiently sharp enough to induce a primal fear response the likes of which I have not felt before or since.

It was like every cell in my body was chemically screaming at me to do absolutely anything necessary to avoid being shocked by one of those things again! (16 years later, so far so good!):)

A short time after this my roommates got a hold of it and stared chasing each other around with it. One of them chased me into a bathroom where the only exit was a window not much bigger than my head, eight feet off the ground; He made a lunge at me with it and I was out side on the lawn before he could close the three feet between us! To this day I have no idea how I did this except that proper motivation was the key.:confused:

The lessons I learned was that a good cattle prod can be a very effective self-defence weapon, with a strong psychological effect. Also you should make sure your attacker has an escape route or you will just end up dumping more adrenaline into him than you are going to want to wrestle with.

Someone here mentioned grappling with your attacker, my roommate's fun and games ended when they realized that zapping someone you are holding onto isn't much fun.