Importing silencers

[transmitt]

If you want to buy a suppressor in the United States legally, you don't really have very many options. In fact, you actually only have two options:

1. You can attempt to buy the suppressor as an individual. In order for an individual to purchase a suppressor, they must live in a state that allows the purchase of suppressors. They also must provide an ATF form 4 complete with the signature of their chief law enforcement officer (sheriff, chief of police, judge with arrest warrant powers), a photograph of themselves, and fingerprints. After this, a 60 to 180 day waiting period ensues. They run a background check and put you into the system. If all is good, you get to pick up your suppressor from your dealer.

2. You can attempt to buy the suppressor as a corporation or other legal entity. Corporations, LLCs, trusts, etc. can also have NFA items transferred to them. The big bonus here is that you don't have to provide your photograph, fingerprints, or the signoff of the chief law enforcement officer. There is also a shorter waiting period. The minus is that you have to go through the additional red tape involved with creating your legal entity. The complexities and costs vary depending on what type of entity, and what state.

That's the United States; in many European countries, suppressors aren't regulated at all. Notable examples include Finland and France, where you can buy suppressors over the counter. The UK, I believe, requires a permit that is trivial to obtain. As you might imagine, manufacturers can sell their product much cheaper than in the US, due to the ability to do much higher volume of sales.

So that got me to thinking: "Hmm.. how hard would it be to import silencers from Europe?"

It would of course be illegal. So, if you are a machinist, or know one who would work for you, you could, with a minimum of research, manufacture an industrial grade suppressor with modern internals. If you aren't a machinist or don't know one, then you are limited to cruder methods. In this case, importing might be for you.

The first thing I would do would be to try to find a contact in a suppressor friendly country. Maybe I would locate some Finnish carders and arrange some sort of deal in which they would buy the suppressors and have them sent to me.

Since this is against the law, we want our activities to go unnoticed. We'd like our silencer to arrive unmolested. Since US Customs probably has a list of suppressor manufacturers, we'd want our suppressor re-packaged before being sent to us. As well, we'd want the final destination of the package to be a drop that we've setup just for this purpose. Then our only danger would be that the box gets opened or x-rayed and that someone recognizes the product for what it is.

So what are the odds of that? Does UPS randomly open or x-ray packages? What about customs? Even if x-rayed, I can't see a silencer setting off too many alarms. A cylinder between three and nine inches in length and one to two inches in diameter seems pretty harmless. As well, we might camouflage the shipment by sending it with something else--flashlights or something.

It's just a thought.

[Jacks Complete]

Interesting. The UK sells OTC silencers for air rifles, so .177", .22" and .25" (perhaps) are available. Every air rifle has one. You cannot buy a firearms silencer without a firearms certificate, which is anything but trivial to get. (See my other post today about it!) so anything bigger than a .22, forget it.

I know a lot of people use air rifle silencers on Ruger 10/22's, since there is no reason not to get the threaded barrels. Still quite noisy, but better than before. Use subsonics if you can get them, but remember that you can get 5 years for having hollowpoints!

Building a silencer is trivial, though. Buy a steel tube the right size, some springs that will fit inside the tube, and some washers. Get someone to machine a threaded bit to go on your rifle crown's thread, and silver solder it to the tube. Stack it up, spring part, washer, spring part, etc. then solder an end washer in place. Job done. Nearly as easy as making a hollowpoint!

[tmp]

I wouldn't even attempt to import a silencer into the U.S.. Under 18 USC,
section 922 a person can be imprisoned for 5 years and/or fined for such
an act. There's no parole at the federal level either. Of course a person
could build it if so inclined. Otherwise, the only option is to go through
the hassle and paying the $250 transfer tax.

[defiant]

Machining is not difficult to to learn, and a used metal lathe capable of machining to 1/1000" can be had for $500 US. Tooling and accessories may be an additional expense. depending on what the lathe comes with. An importation scheme would cost more than a lathe, though its interesting to know that silencers are legal abroad.

US law defines a silencer as a firearm, and the US Constitution holds that the right to own and bear firearms shall not be infringed. Unaffordable taxes and impossible conditions are an infringement. So much for the law.

Silencer patents are available at:

http://rapidshare.de/files/17869846/Silencer_Patents.7z.html

[Bugger]

Talking about building a silencer for a rifle or high-powered airgun: does anyone have plans for makling them? If so, please upload to rapidshare.de, and post the downloading link here.
I want a silencer in order to hunt Australian brushtails opossums on my property and neighboring forest reserves; they are New Zealand's number one introduced pest, devastating to small nesting birds by eating their eggs, and stripping palatable trees of foliage. and also eat ripe fruit in orchards. They are nocturnal, and I would need a silencer to shoot them without scaring other ones away.

[nbk2000]

Defiant:

While I agree with your interpretation of the Constitutions intent, we must remember that decades of liberal ZOG puppets in the courts and political offices, have formed a maze of psuedo-legal bullshit around the 'Self-Evident' intent of the 2nd amendment, for the express purpose of disarming the populous.

I'd also like to mention the fact that there were NO gun control laws in the US until AFTER the civil war was over and the niggers got their freedom. After that, gun ownership started getting regulated to prevent them from having guns and getting uppity.

Look what happens in every major city where there's a majority of niggers, who also have guns...Mogadishu in Detriot...Liberia in Watts...etc...

It's a miracle that as many white people own guns as they do now, 'cause the liberals won't be happy until the white man is defenseless against swarms of uppity muds with guns. :mad:

Bugger:

Check your grammer and correct it. *hint*paragraphs*hint*

[tmp]

An essay, by Maryland attorney Howard J. Fezell, discusses the early gun
control in Maryland. The various laws took effect in 1715, 1756, and 1806.
The 1715 and 1806 laws were directed at blacks while the 1756 law was
directed at Catholics. Link: http://www.secondamendment.net/2amd8.html

Gun control directed at MOST people, as indicated by NBK, took place after
The War Of Northern Agression(that's the Civil War for you Yankees !),
particulary in the 20th century. New York City's infamous Sullivan law was
used to keep immigrants disarmed and away from voting booths. Gun control
has always been about controlling people - not crime !

I live in Maryland and can tell you this state is a hassle to own any kind of
gun. Only the cops, rent-a-screws, and of course, the elite can even
get a permit to carry a gun. I found out the hard way what its like to get
busted for carrying a gun without a permit.

Sorry for straying off topic. For homemade silencers, the simplest design I
read about is based on the Larand. The Larand uses a metal wool held
back by a shroud to absorb the heat of the exiting propellant gases. It
doesn't even have to be perfectly aligned with barrel provided that the round
doesn't strike any of the supressor's internals. This type is considered to be
more effective than the Scionics silencer used in Vietnam.

[nbk2000]

...The War Of Northern Aggression...


(2 g's in aggression)

First time I ever heard that phrase was during the X-Files episode called 'Home'.

Boy, was that a FREAKY one. :eek:

True, gun control has always been about controlling the masses, regardless of race, but the big reason for it in the US was the niggers. Once that can of worms was opened, it was easy for the politicans to continue expanding the laws until everyone who isn't a party member is disarmed. :mad:

[tmp]

NBK, sorry about the typo in "aggression". I'm usually a good speller and I
should have looked it up.

As for those who initiated gun control as we know it, you're absolutely
right ! The liberals just love those idiots killing each other as justification
for yet another "common sense" gun control law.

Whenever a politician tries to ease up the gun laws on us average citizens
you can count on the black politicians of Baltimore City and Prince George's
County in addition to the white liberals of Montgomery County to scream
that "blood will flow in the streets" if you do that. Same alarmist shit that
was predicted in every state that is now "shall issue" for pistol permits.

Back to silencers. I found that a soda can properly placed over the barrel
of a .22 LR pistol does a pretty good job for that caliber. It reminds me of
a firecracker going off in the can. It goes TINK instead of BANG.

[transmitt]

Back to silencers. I found that a soda can properly placed over the barrel of a .22 LR pistol does a pretty good job for that caliber. It reminds me of a firecracker going off in the can. It goes TINK instead of BANG.

Yeah, it's amazing what simple volume can do. Silencing a muzzle report consists basically of two things: volume and baffles. It's not hard to make a very good silencer for the .22lr cartridge, but it is harder to make one in a small package.

For example, filling a 2" diameter, 6" length pvc pipe with some sort of baffling apparatus like steel wool would probably be as quiet or quieter than most commercially available units. Using more efficient baffling, you can reduce
volume requirements per decibel reduction.

The baffle type for .22lr used most often these days is the so called 'k-baffle'. It's essentially a cone with a disk at the bottom. When looked at from a cutaway, it looks like a 'k', hence its name. The cone portion has a hole bored into the side (a 'dater' hole) to allow gas to escape into the chamber created by the wall of the outer tube and the baffle. Sometimes a notch is cut into the side of the hole that bullet passes through (a 'ramp') to direct the gases.

The Advanced Armament Company's Pilot, Gem-tech's Outback II, and Tactical Innovations Tac-65 all use this design. They are generally 5" to 6" in length, and approximately 1" in diameter. Each design has 5 to 7 k-baffles. They have reported dB reductions of 38 to 41+ dB. The Tac-65 is especially interesting, because you can take it apart for cleaning. Pictures of the baffle stacks are available.

The only 'big' US made .22lr silencer that uses a different baffle design is the SWR Warlock, which uses Joe Gaddini's patented Omega baffles. When a popular silencer website tested his design, they achieved a reduction of 43 dB.

K-baffles, at least, would probably be easy to make if you had a lathe and a mill and knew how to use it. I mentioned the thought of importing, because I myself do not have access to machine tools, and if I did, I wouldn't know how to use them.

From lookinag x-rays of suppressors, pictures, and reading product descriptions, it seems to me that to make a top of the line suppressor using modern internals, you would need to make:

1. The outer tube. Generally 6061-T6 aluminum tubing with an OD of 1", and a wall thickness of .065".
2. Endcaps. Machined from 6061-T6 aluminum bar stock. Most models look to have about 1/4" of thread engagement. They tend to thread 'in' instead of 'over'. As a result, the inside portion of the endcaps tend to be milled out so as to not overly reduce the internal volume.
3. Thread mount. Standard seems to be 1/2" x 28 tpi, stainless steel mount. Mount threads into the rear endcap. Stainless steel is used to avoid threadwear. Sometimes titanium is used.
4. Baffles. As mentioned, 5 to 7 k-baffles. I counted 5 baffles in the picture of the tac-65, the loudest of the four suppressors. An x-ray of the AAC scarab showed 7 baffles. The AAC pilot apparently has the same internal structure.

Bore for the bullet to pass through throughout the unit should be approximately .280". I obtained this number by adding .06" to .22. This amount of clearance is industry standard.

Most units these days are being hardcoat anodized. I couldn't find much information about hardcoat anodizing (type III), but type II anodizing is done by all sorts of hobbyists.

Here are some links:
AAC Pilot (http://www.advanced-armament.com/products/rimfire/pilot.asp)
Gem-tech Outback II (http://www.gem-tech.com/outback.html)
Tactical Innovations Tac-65 (http://www.tacticalinc.com/tac65-22lr-suppressorbrexcellent-suppression-easy-clean-p-38.html)
SWR Warlock (http://www.swrmfg.com/ProductDetails.asp?ID=17)
Anodizing aluminum (type II) (http://www.focuser.com/anodize.html)

[defiant]

Interesting info about silencers. Again, its not difficult to use metal working machinery. I'll upload some metal working books and discuss design later.

With regards to consevative vs. liberal politics in the US - there are far more similarities than differences. Both represent elite interests. Neither is willing to enact lobbyist reform. Both have destroyed the watchdog role of the media through "deregulatation." Effectually, liberals and conservatives are playing an elaborate game of good cop / bad cop - but essentially the differences are more appearance than actual.

Consider that Reagan was shot with a .22 handgun. Consequently the Brady Bill was enacted and assault rifles were banned. Does that make sense? Was the Reagan Administration liberal?

By all indications, if there was a threat to the status quo - ... or the new world order - gun rights would be diminished or abolished regardless of the party is in office. Nowadays both liberals and conservatives are both thoroughly corrupt.

If a tyrannical government was in power, be that power liberal or conservative, it would be foolish to give up one's firearms (whatever the law was). And any government that would ban guns is tyrannical or downright stupid for creating the conditions which facillitate tyranny (a disarmed populace).

"When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." - Unknown

[noz]

Realy we are all talking about suppressors there is no such thing as a "silencer", they are useful on most weapons except revolvers even if firing non sub ammo as they do cut noise level quite a bit. You can definately buy rimfire "silencers" in the UK they are one diameter(well ones I've seen are) that is used for .22short/lr/win.mag. and also .17 use. Most come in 1/2" thread which is commonest on pre threaded barrels, but you can get ones with different threads. Prices range from £25 to about £65, they are mostly between 6" and 9" long and about an 1 1/4 thick. Best thing is get someone to post you one as no paper trail, plus don't know of any UK dealer or Ebayer who would risk it.

If you want something for centre fire try Finland or build your own, best for rifle is reflex design made by TUOTE in France, is short in length but reduces noise massively is used on a lot of special forces guns.

[Third_Rail]

I've a decent machine shop set up in my apartment, and for less than $1200. Mill, drillpress, a few vices, a lathe, plenty of tools, etc.

Once I turn 21, my LLC will be manufacturing (along with paying the $200 tax to the gov't) some suppressors, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and the like.

Slightly OT, but I may actually get that Gatling gun in 12ga finished some day, too.

[nbk2000]

If you go Title III manufacturing, expect to get raided by the ATF some day.

They, for some reason, like setting up manufacturers of legal machine guns and silencers, and busting them. Probably to seize their assests to fund further thievery on their part. :mad:

[Third_Rail]

Most likely won't be going full manufacturer route, just the tax stamp per item. I figure every single firearm I have minus the HD ones should be very quiet, along with being accurate and concealable (to a point).

Besides, if I go Class 3, I won't be able to keep anything I make if I get rid of the license, whereas with registering each to an LLC, I keep them all until lost/stolen.


Of course, I would rather there be no NFA regulations in the first place, but as there are, I'll work within the system to get my toys.

[megalomania]

I see that one of the hot sellers at Tactical Innovations is a fake .22 LR suppressor. I wonder how hard it would be to import that little gem?
http://www.tacticalinc.com/walther-thread-adapter-fake-suppressor-p-343.html
No sales to kalifornia!

Consider the psychological benefits of intimidation one could get screwing on a fake silencer to a gun while threatening someone. We all know what happens after the hit-man screws on his silincer...

[transmitt]

Pictures of the internals of the AAC pilot, one of the top of the line .22lr rimfire silencers on the market today.

AAC Pilot (http://www.cswnet.com/~luther/pilot.htm)

[Anira]

If you want to try building them then maby this book can help.

Paladin Press - Workbench Silencers:
http://rapidshare.de/files/26008139/Other_-_Paladin_Press_-_Workbench_Silencers.pdf.html

[1petmonster]

Did you know you can build them yourself in the USA, just apply for the permit from your BATF, same rule applies for building your own firearm from scratch (this does not allow you to build full auto).

And in NZ , its a over the counter gig, in South Australia you were able to purchase over the counter but not allow to use, all very silly!!!
PS with subsonic ammo, try spherical K baffles!!!!!