permanganic acid

[PYRO500]

Recently I have obtained 1.5 pounds of Potassium Permanaganate, this substance is a fairly powerful oxidizer, I have been talking about permanganic acid AKA manganese Heptoxide. it's formula is Mn2O7 and it will react with oxidiseable materials to either catch fire or explode, it is made from adding KMnO4 to H2SO4 and the stuff is the green stuff that seperates out. I will try this sometime soon and let you know how this goes

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"Death may come from above, but terror most certainly comes from below."

[Demolition]

Be careful when experimenting with this explosive oil.

Originally posted by Simply RED
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I have a friend who mixed 200grams 98%H2SO4 and 200grams KMnO4(the jar was not clean...).It exploded and spitted the acid(all the shit mixture) on him, all his body was injured by the waste and the flying glass. He haven't made any explosive since then. He survived with no serious damage but the scars will not disappear...</font>

Originally posted by Lagan
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Preparation of Manganese Heptoxide:
Materials: potassium permanganate (KMnO4), sulfuric acid 92-96%
Procedure: Place 5g powdered potassium permanganate in a small beaker. To this add 5ml concentrated sulfuric acid. Gently swirl the mixture to blend the components. A dark green oily liquid will form. This is manganese(VII) heptoxide (Mn2O7), a powerful oxidizer. It incinerates almost every organic compound. Some experiments to do with it:

Twist a wad of cotton around a wooden splinter, immerse this in the liquid and take it out immediately. The cotton will start burning in 1-5 seconds.
Place any organic compound (sugar, flour, starch, pieces of wood, hay, paper, styrofoam...) on a fireproof surface, by addition of a few drops of Mn2O7 these will catch on fire.
Flammable liquids (ethanol, gas, acetone, toluene, paint thinner...) can be lit in a similar fashion. WARNING: Pour the flammables out in a thin layer in an open area! Never mix Mn2O7 with a liquid like acetone in a test tube or similar vessel. The mixture may be ejected violently or even explode! Never mix Mn2O7 with powdered metals, the mix will explode and unreacted Mn2O7 along with excess acid will spray in all directions!
Alternatively, the process can be reversed: Mix KMnO4 with an organic compound and add a few drops of conc. sulfuric acid to light it.</font>




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Demolition

[nbk2000]

Sounds like just the thing for a hypergolic igniter for a "hotfoot" mine.

A styrofoam shell is made the size and appearence of a large rock. The interior is lined with PVA, and filled with GOOP (Mg/KNO3/tar). A glass ampoule is inserted and the shell sealed.

When stepped on, the ampuole breaks, igniting the incendiary gel which burns at 5,000 degrees F, burning the victims foot to a cinder. Even dunking it in water won't put it out because of the nature of burning magnesium.

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[mrloud]

A reliable source once told me that Potassium Permanganate was placed in a pile on or around the delicate parts of a submarine engine. A container of glycerine was then rigged to tip into it when the submarine tilted to descend. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out what happens next.

Isn't potassium permanganate available as a purple coloured crystal that is dissolved in water for use as a mouthwash?

[PYRO500]

Imagine what a beer bottle full of this stuff would do, since a molitov coctail catches things that burn on fire with burning napalm, what about the acid, it would shatter and whatever it landed on it would burn if it were able to. if this were to be slammed down in a crowded area not only would it splatter and hit people catching their skin on fire (nasty) but it would catch any rescuers shoes on fire, imagine if you put this on the ground right before an event, that might be scary.

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"Death may come from above, but terror most certainly comes from below."

[a_bab]

I had played quite a few times with the potassium permanganate/sulfuric acid mix. Is pretty nasty, because if you put some of the green oil formed on a piece of paper, or any flammabile material, it starts to fume with brown flakes of MnO₂ wich are very soft and float into the air.
I added once some peniciline powder in the mix, and the smell (<---read STINK) wich quickly appeared was terrible. It was like 10.000 hospitals at once !



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Damn, I got a nitro-headache again...

http://move.to/pyromania

[BrAiNFeVeR]

I messed around with Manganese Heptoxide too, it will actually react with about anything that isn't glass !! (even the metal rod *one* used to loosen some of the KMnO4 that clotted up in the test tube --> Whoosh)
Especially be very careful when submersing a wad of cotton in it like someone mentioned before, it can (and most of the times will) oxidise the cotton all immediatly, spitting out some acid and a lot of the fluffy purple material that will float around for ages !!(if you work in a pretty windy shed like I do)
A big minus for this product is that, for the big quantity's of sulfuric acid and KMnO4, it produces very little of the super fun green oil http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif


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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[PYRO500]

Tomorrow I might try to make Manganese Heptoxide, I will try to take digital pictures if I can get the camera to work, for those of you that downloaded my list of commonly avalible materials/chems and the pictures in the archive, I may add this substance to the file along with a lightbulb flask+stand similar to PMJB .

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"Death may come from above, but terror most certainly comes from below."

[VasiaPupkin]

Mn2O7-green oil, m.p. 5.9C, dens. 2.40 g/cc.
Begins decomposing about 50C. But in higher temperatures or quick heating Mn2O7 decomposes with detonation. Also very sensitive to mechanic influence or soil.
Powerful oxidizer, but have no practic use because not so stable when keeping. Usual lab prebaring is mixing KMnO4 and conc. H2SO4 in water-ice bath.
I think this shit unstable like Cl2O7, NCl3 etc. This explosives sufficiently powerful to make troubles for you. My friend kept 15 ml NCl3 in cupboad. But this shit detonated without any visible reasons in the night.
Hmm. It was good alarm clock for his parents.

[PYRO500]

I did make some of this, and yes the claims are true. I took the batch of acid and chilled it in a salt ice bath and set it on the outside table I made this on, the batch did not raise much in tempature, I was unable to get much pure MnO7 at a time beacuse my eyedropper was PP ( I didn't use it!) I think the best way to seperate this stuff would be to pour it in a large glass pan or tray and use an eyedropper beacuse it mixes in blobs in the acid. I poured some acid/MnO7 over soem newspaper and where the stuff would tough the paper it caught fire but with the acid present I didn't get combustion for long (probably a good thing) this stuff in solution was pretty nasty stuff and a botle or vial of this stuff smashed indoors would be extremly destructive starting fires all over, when making this stuff regard it as one touch=fire even if you are wearing gloves, it can catch them on fire too. keep a bucket of water on hand when making this stuff as it will happily burn (catch fire to) nearly anything not made of glass.

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[nbk2000]

Small ampoules made of thin glass filled with with this stuff would have many applications it would seem.

Drop one into the nozzle of a gas pump nozzle, when a person sticks it in the the tank and pulls that trigger....one less gas station by the road.

Place one in the hose hookup of a propane filling station. BOOM!

Stick it, along with GOOP (Gelled metal incendiary) under the insole of someones shoe. When they put it on, roasted foot that'll have to be cut off.

Would it set a car tire on fire if it was driven over? That'd be an interesting experiment to try.



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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[CodeMason]

Could it be used as a non-explosive oxidizing agent, eg, for making (CH₂NNO)₃ into (CH₂NNO₂)₃?

[This message has been edited by CodeMason (edited 11-17-2001).]

[PYRO500]

I chilled the solution beforehand, but it didn't get hot enough to decompose the solution. when I tried to pour off the solution I got green stuff clinging to the sides of the container (Mn2O7) and it was too thin to run off. I don't know if it'll catch fire to a tire if it is run over, possibly if the car was moving slow such as backing out but the fire could be smothered easily, the stuff also decomposes easily and needs to be kept at a reduced temp. to avoid decomposition. you could just keep it on some ice till ready to use.

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[This message has been edited by PYRO500 (edited 11-19-2001).]

[CYCLO]

Interresting,this Mn07, i've read about it in a chemistry book; It's sounds really
unstable, BUT CAN'T it be used to make another, more stable, explosive....

Mno7 + C6H12N4 -> Explosive peroxide ??

or something like that??

Can someone help???

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"Most Shit Never Works"
-Nobel

[CodeMason]

madscientist, perhaps you were too hasty. Organic permanganates could be formed from Mn₂O₇ (it would also act as a dehydrating agent, somewhat), which would be interesting, although unstable, high explosives.

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[PYRO500]

permanganic acid=HMnO4

Manganese septoxide=Mn2O7
Mn has a +7 charge O has a -2 so you get Mn2O7 when you cross your charges.

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[CodeMason]

98%+ nitric acid will also cause many organic fuels to combust on contact with it, such as fine sawdust, sugar and turpentine, but nitrations can still occur... This is why we add things slowly and have ice baths. :)

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[vulture]

I've found some more info on Mn2O7;
density: 2,396
melting point: 6C
slow decomposition begins at -10C
storage at room temperature is possible for prolonged period.

explosion at 95C, it decomposes into MnO2 en O3 (ozone)
sensitivity is comparable to MF
If diluted in excess of water HMnO4 will form, which does not exist in pure condition, this is the actual permanganic acid.

other known oxides are: Mn5O8, Mn7O12 and Mn7O13

Source: Basislexikon Chemie, Rompp-Thieme (german)

[This message has been edited by vulture (edited December 24, 2001).]

[BoB-]

Did you record the reaction time? I'm wondering if the explosive could be made when its needed, the PP could be kept in its bottle, and the acid could be kept in a wax covered corked bottle.

To get to the point, could the chemicals be mixed, then the bottle thrown?

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Teamwork is essential.
It lets you blame someone else.

[krimmie]

I would not want to mix too much of this stuff at one time! I just mixed approx. 10 ml. of it. I dabbled some on a wood block with a plastic knife and it gave off a "crack"......pretty nasty stuff.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

How about an ammonium manganate (NH4)2MnO4 explosive? It would be much more stable than ammonium permanganate. It could be prepared by heating potassium permanganate (decomposing it to potassium manganate)

2(KMnO4) --> K2MnO4 + MnO + 1.5(O2)

The residue then could be treated with a solution of somewhere around 50% H2SO4. Then it would be heated by flame, and the gas bubbling off would be bubbled through a solution of ammonia. Then the solution of ammonia would be evaporated off; the green crystals remaining would be ammonium manganate.

[vulture]

Hmm, strange reaction for decomposing of permanganate you have there, my chemistry encyclopedia lists this one:
10 KMnO4 -> 3 K2MnO4 + 2K2O.7MnO2 + 602

however,there seem to be dozens of decomposing reactions for permanganate, that's why I never succeed at calculating the reaction enthalpie of permanganate flash :confused:
( so far i've found that 1152.31g of 6KMnO4/4Al/3S releases 4242Kj, assuming that KMnO4 decomposes into KMnO2 ;) )

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

I am fairly that the following reaction is correct:

4KMnO4 --> 2K2MnO4 + 2MnO + 3O2

If the other reaction was correct (the one you posted, one of the products being potassium oxide) then the potassium permanganate no-longer would react very exothermically with water after heating. However I have never observed such a reaction.

edited to add:
Also, MnO2 is thermally unstable; it readily decomposes into MnO and O2.

[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: Pu239 Stuchtiger ]</p>

[Richy]

i read on a foolish site that an explosive compund can be created by mixing potassium permaganate with powdered cane sugar. i label the site as foolish because it described aceonte peroxide as "very safe". so, is this an effective mixture or what? any links or information would be appreciated.

from

Richy

[xyz]

KMnO4/Sugar is listed in the SAS survival guide as an incendiary for chemical firelighting:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Potassium Permanganate and Sugar mixed 9:1 is less sensitive than Potassium Chlorate and Sugar and temperature is a critical factor in how long it takes to ignite. The addition of sulphuric acid or glycerine will produce ignition. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">

[1337bomber]

I have H2SO4 drain cleaner (which is the only H2SO4 I can get) and I am thinking that using this may have effects that would be rather detrimental to my living painlessly.....

Any thoughts on the likeliness of an "unexpected reaction" happening?

[Anthony]

As discussed in other threads, the impurities in drain opener H2SO4 are no cause for concern.

Richy, try to keep it on topic, this thread is about permanganic acid.

[xyz]

I'd be careful with the name "1337bomber" as you may find some forum members dislike it. Be very careful when creating your first topic or NBK will tear your head off faster than you can say kewl bomber.

[1337bomber]

I just tried the Manganese Heptoxide synth, with no luck. I carried out the reaction outside, and it is pretty cool out. There was a bit of green oil on the side of the beaker, but it did not ignite a thin dowel that I poked in it. Could the temperature be the problem? I used the 5g H2SO4 5g KMnO4 posted near the beginning of the page.

XYZ - Yes, soon after I was accepted I realized that I had done a terrible thing with the 1337; I am definately not kewl, in fact it was making fun of "Teh 1337 Haxor" that I became 1337bomber a long time ago. Is there any way to change my name?!?!

[Zach]

no, there is no way to change your name. you should really just get a new one. you've only got eight posts, its not a great loss.

[kingspaz]

:mad: :mad: :mad:
xyz, zach let me quote anthony above 'try to keep it on topic, this thread is about permanganic acid.' now lets keep it on topic, its not that bloody hard!

[Energy84]

With the instability issues of Permanganic acid with other organic compounds, I would probably not want to use anything but pure H₂SO₄. Organic impurities may be left over from the reaction causing the acid to ignite while still in the beaker.
This however could prove useful in the case of both chemicals being mixed 'on location'...

[Bo bo]

when my father was at school he read his textbook and it had a warning about NEVER adding sulphuric acid to KMn04 as a highly unstable substance results. Well my father goes right ahead, fills a crucible with conc.H2SO4 sticks it on top of the bunsen burner and dumps a large amount of powdered KMn04 into it whereapon clouds of purple smoke are evolved and moments later a rather large explosion. If you knew the things my dad had done in his time you would think he was captin scarlet or something.

[Nihilist]

did the purple gas rise or did it sink to the ground? also do you have any idea what that fine dust might have been that came out?

[Mr Cool]

All that stuff will be manganese based, the different colours caused by different oxidation states.
I am very glad you did it outside, because you don't want to breathe that stuff:

"Acute Health Effects
Irritating to the skin and eyes on contact. Inhalation will cause irritation to the lungs and mucus membrane. Irritation to the eyes will cause watering and redness. Reddening, scaling, and itching are characteristics of skin inflammation. Follow safe industrial hygiene practices and always wear protective equipment when handling this compound.

Chronic Health Effects:
Men exposed to manganese dusts showed a decrease in fertility. Chronic manganese poisoning primarily involves the central nervous system. Early symptoms include languor, sleepiness and weakness in the legs. A stolid mask-like appearance of the face, emotional disturbances such as uncontrollable laughter and a spastic gait with tendency to fall in walking are findings in more advanced cases. High incidence of pneumonia has been found in workers exposed to the dust or fume of some manganese compounds. All contact with the human body must be avoided."

I've also found out that there is a central nervous condition called manganism!
IIRC some of its oxidation states are also carcinogenic or mutagenic.

[metafractal]

Flipping through my lab log, it seems that I once briefly experimented with the KMn04/Sucrose mix, walking out into unknown territory, with no knowledge of its use ever before. Here is my (mini) writeup:

Aim: To determine the feasibility of a deflagrating composition of two very easily obtainable chemicals, Potassium Permanganate, a strong oxidizer, and Sucrose, a fuel.
Materials: Potassium Permanganate, Sucrose
Apparatus: Mortar and Pestle, Small Cardboard Cubes X 3, Sheet of paper
Method: The Potassium Permanganate and the Sucrose were ground seperateley to a fine powder. They were then mixed into three portions of rations 25/75, 50/50, 75/25 via the Daiper method. The remaining materials were discarded.
Results:
75 Oxidizer/25 Fuel: Fast and impressive. Heat brief and not intense.
50 Oxidizer/50 Fuel: Slower burning and producing more intense heat. Self sustaining but unimpressive.
25 Oxidizer/75 Fuel: Would not ignite. Oxidizer did not seem to aid the burning of the Sucrose to any degree.
Burnt with light orange flame and few sparks in both the igniting compositions.
Conclusion: 75/25 Mix is the only feasable option and should be further developed. A larger amount of KMn04 aproaching 90% should be tested for a possible medium-fast mix. More Sucrose while always exceeding 50% could be feasable for slower self sustaining reactions. Overall, certainly inferior to a Chlorate or Nitrate compisition, but still may find some applications when these are unavailable or impractical.

Sorry to divert more attention from the stated topic, but I think that this information is of interest to some.

[Flake2m]

Well someone mentioned earlier that if this stuff was thrown into a crowd it would be very nasty, then imagine what it would do to the riot cops *evil grin*.

The manganese heptoxide synth might be worth looking at, especially if you are looking at protest/mob weapons or simply wanting to synthesise an compound that might make a nice fireworks show.

[metafractal]

Chlorates certainly ignite when they come into contact with Sulphuric Acid. In fact, this is why chlorates are supposed to be incompatable with sulphur: the possibility that it may form trace amounts of sulphuric acid with water from the air, rendering it unstable. Amongst the first matches ever created were sticks with a chlorate composition head. The user would have to carry around a bottle of sulphuric acid. When he wished to ignite one, he would need to dip it in. Then, it either ignited spontaneously or became so sensative that it would ignite at the slightest friction, heat, or even sound! The main reason that this was decided to be impractical (besides the relative cost), was the fact that an unfortunate amount of chlorine gas and other nasties are released in the process. Still, its worth keepign in mind for improvised chemists such as ourselves.

[chembio]

Hi to everyone (I'm new). After reading nbk2000's suggestion of letting a car run over an ampoule of manganese heptoxide, I thought of another way to detonate the Mn2O7 using cars: Use heavy-duty duct tape to bind the ampoule to the tire rim.

If the driver decides to do some speeding... He'll get more than a ticket! :D

[h0lx]

Just thought I'd share some old videos, that I made for a site I used to own.
Mn₂O₇ + Acetic anhydride:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p6OZ2vLxHDo
Mn₂O₇ + Acetone
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ObvZxgGa8b8