Bump Keys -- How to obtain?

[corwin]

I'm looking to obtain a bump key or a 999 key, and am having trouble locating sources or instructions on how to make (I would rather buy one if I can, but if making it is more prudent I might go that path instead.)

I work at an Ace Hardware in America, and our key machine is only capable of making a copy to any accurate degree, I've never actually heard of 1-9 settings until coming to this site.(It merely traces the key with one side and cuts with the other). I would also appreciate any advice on what store to go to to get one made or how to make one with a semi-automatic key copy machine I have at my store. (Don't know the actual name beyond that)

My preference would be sc1 and kw1 bumpkeys.

[aikon]

read, read, read...

http://www.lockpicking101.com/

[JakeGallows]

Yeah lockpicking101.com is a fantastic site for learning about lock picking and bypass, though all they'll really say about bumpkeys is that making your own is the best way. That said it is really the best way to learn about it but for the sake of completeness let me fill in some details:

You can buy a bump hammer (not necessary in my opinion and a masterlock bump key from lockpicks.com > Lock By-Pass Tools > KE-Bump Kinetic Energy Bumping Starter Kit

You can also buy KW1 and SC1 keys from them by supposedly you have to be a repossessor, locksmith or other qualified personnel. It is likely though that you could social engineer your way into one of those.

If you work at ace and your key duplicator is simple (i.e. one that you have control over) you could go to home depot, target, wherever and buy a lock with the key you want that has a "9" cut, then use your machine to cut a "9" in each of the positions that you need. Make sense?

You can also buy "depth and space" keys on eBay (or other sites) which include 0-9 keys that you could then duplicate.

Any of the above suggestions will still require you to file down the tip and shoulder in order to make it work as promised... Hope that helps.

[aikon]

Yeah lockpicking101.com is a fantastic site for learning about lock picking and bypass, though all they'll really say about bumpkeys is that making your own is the best way...

Spoon feeding once again:

http://www.toool.nl/index-eng.php

You will find a pdf and a video (600mb).
Making a bump key is not that difficult, but if you're willing to pay for them (a high price) you'll find online shops that sell them.
Google is your friend.

[dichotomous]

For those like me who don't have the necessary tools to make bump keys, I gathered that ordering depth keys is the way to go. Then one can use the key cut at the lowest depth as a bump key.
USE
The difficulty I've encountered though, was that even after I gave the keymaker the exact type of key I wanted (and I actually had to explain the depth key concept to the guy as well) he said that he would need to know the depth. I've taken that to mean the number of standard depths on the key, something that another thread in this forum shed some light on.
Did I interpret that correctly?
PARAGRAPH
In the other thread ( http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/tools-techniques-plans/4878-how-open-mechanical-high-security-locks-bump-key-method.html?highlight=bump+key ) it is mentioned that various keys have different numbers of standard depths (ie 7,9) So my question is how many standard depths are on Best keys? (I assume all Best keys have the same no)
BREAKS
With that info and with the exact type of key, is there anything else the keymaker needs to know to finally be able to cut a set of depth keys?
NBK2000

[anonymous411]

I'd rather master the art of making and using improvised tools than have a crapload of incriminating hardware lying around. Who's going to fault you for having a few odd strips of metal on you compared with the grief you'd get for schlepping around a full complement of SoutOrds or a big-ass ring of bump keys? Obvious.

Besides, in my opinion, social engineering beats B&E hands down. It's far better to talk your way into wherever you want to be than do something flagrantly stupid.

Or: don't forge a key, just convince someone to hand you one. :)

[JakeGallows]

When you get right down to it, if LEOs find any hardware it is potentially incriminating. That's why laws that outlaw any tools used for breaking and entering are so absurd. A brick, crowbar, or hammer could be used to B&E, and all are viewed the same under the law, though they have to suggest intention or action to have a decent case. Though you're right to find value in Social Engineering, relying on a single tactic to succeed is dangerous.

I think the bump keys are actually relatively low-risk. Ask your local locksmith if he's ever heard of a 999 key, bump key or your preferred term. Good chance they won't have. If the lockies don't know about it, what chance is there that a cop that is looking for drugs and weapons on you will notice a key with all the same cuts, recognize it and nail you for it?

Hell, if you're that concerned, re-pin one of the locks in your house as 99999. So long as you're not carrying a janitor's keyring of bumpkeys, but rather the ones you are most likely to need in a pinch (SC1 and KW1) you'll be in pretty good shape.

[nbk2000]

You can't always talk your way into (or out of) everyplace you may want, and you can't always replace manufactured tools with 'improvised' versions, so you may have to schlep around a big-ass keyring. :)

A 999 key is implausible to have as a personal house key, because no one manufacturers locks using such pinning, and will gladly testify to that fact.

A 999 key is a key that doesn't engage the pins except at the peaks of the inter-pin (whatever it's called), which is what smacks into the bottom of the pins, causing the rapping action.

Also, just because a locksmith tells you they don't know what a 999 key is, doesn't mean that they don't. It's much more likely that they're playing dumb, as they like to pretend to the unwashed masses that such things don't exist.

[megalomania]

Cops have a lot more dealings with the criminal element; that's their job. They don't have to encounter all crimes as they get reams of state produced training materials. Nbk2000 recently posted an article about a man who was arrested and searched because the cops saw what their training told them was "pirated CD's." All it takes is one memo with a few pictures passed around the squad and boom, they get you on suspicion. It's the lawyers job to determine if you are guilty, the cops just have to remember a picture of a key...

[sd1904]

[/B]I don’t know from "personal" experience. But shaved or not shaved nothing beats a customized 1/4 allan wrench. Works every time! I live in the auto theft capitol of the country and let me tell you that there is no Honda or Acura that will be safe. An allen allows you to apply proper pressure while it all looks like you are just getting into your ride.

[anonymous411]

Jake: True, any hardware is potentially incriminating, as long as you fit the profile that gets you noticed in the first place. Which is precisely why "personal perception management" is so important.

If for all intents and purposes you look like the perfect picture of a solid citizen (well-groomed, conservative suit and tie, Gucci loafers, calm, affable demeanor and all that horseshit) you could have a brick, crowbar, hammer, ring of bump keys, wallet of southords, and a freaking dynamic entry monoshock ram in your posession...and nine times out of ten nobody would even think to bother you. If they did, whatever pretext(s) you decided on beforehand would likely come across as believable.

Likewise, if you look like a dirty little uneducated meth-addicted white trash punk, you're going to be treated like one. Nothing you could do would ever be right and you get hauled in for blank CDs or your life savings taken away as evidence of drug dealing, on and on.

[JakeGallows]

I agree that you can neither talk your way into everything but breaking in can be the wrong way as well. I was told once that you should always keep your options open until keeping your options open starts closing options. My point is that depending on the situation I think that with good personal perception management you could keep a couple of bump keys on your person and be relatively unlikely to have problems. I agree that this IS a risk.

I think part of that risk could be offset by having locks in your house that use those keys. You would need to rekey them to your bump key, since NBK is correct that no manufacturer would create such a lock themselves. Clearly you would be wise to make it to a fairly unimportant door (closet, pantry, whatever) not an entranceway. Combine a low likelyhood of being stopped with improbability of an officer noticing and recognizing what you're carrying and a legitimate and demonstrable excuse and you have my argument for why you could carry a few bumpkeys with "no" problem.

[JakeGallows]

Re-searched google and noticed a number of links to commercially available bumpkeys including:

'http://www.cheapbumpkeys.com/'

[festergrump]

Look, folks, you either learn how to make them yourself or you let other people in on what you're up to. Even ONE other person knowing your wants for obtaining them can lead to you sharing a room with 'Bubba the Hubba Dubba Luvva' for long enough for you to have afterthoughts of what a fool you were for letting someone else in on your plans, now or later.

Remember the RTPBs at all times.

Do what you want, but is there any information lacking here on how to make them yourself on this site? C'mon. Do it all by yourself. You'll appreciate the rewards more this way (and you might be free to reap them, too!).

[209]

No need to go out and buy a blank to make the bumb key, just go to the hardware store were they cut the keys and wait till the guys back is turned. Thats what I did, I was getting a key cut and saw a rack full of blanks and thought "I had better not miss this opportunity" :D and slipped it into my pocket.

I sure you have a file at home, even a bar file will work, just turn it on an angle and cut all the teeth to their lowest points. you will need a hammer or something to drive the bump key into the lock. even the spine of a book will work in a pinch.

[kodiak31]

Go to a locksmith and tell them you want a key cut to code. Give them a code with at least one "9" depth. Then go home, break out the needle files and file the other teeth to match the lowest one. There, you've made yourself a bumpkey and no one is the wiser.

[grayssk]

It'll really cost you, but the most "professional" site with bump keys these days is the new Multipick site. http://www.multipick-service.cc/htdocs/en/werkzeug/36100/36100_cat1.php

No need to pay their outrageous prices, though. You can enjoy the best part of the site for free. They have illustrations of all the keyways, just find the one that looks like what you need, look at the key, and make your own (or buy from them, it's a mostly free country).

[lock]

Honestly, just make them yourself. But, if you're having trouble making them, there are a couple things you can try.

If you're having trouble with depth and spacing, then see - http://web.archive.org/web/20050215102400/http://dlaco.com/spacing/spacing.htm.
The origional website was taken down do to intrest in bumpkeys, but thanks to web archive its still available.

If you're having trouble obtaining a key or keyblank, you can try and look it up in http://www.kaba-ilco.com/key_systems/pdf/keyblanks.aspx?sm=kb_lit
The guide has pics of what the end of the key looks like, which is incredibly useful. Once you have the keyblank details, order the key blank from Ilco or ebay...

And, if you can't do the above, register on lockpicking101.com
Don't post a wanted ad in Buy/sell/trade for bumpkeys, read around, find out whos who, and then approach a locksmith or hobbyist about cutting you a set. Make sure they aren't anti-bumpkey, some of them hate the things, and wouldn't sell them to anyone. Be sure to make a few posts as well, they don't look kindly on those looking to be spoonfed, make some helpful posts, then ask someone to cut you some bumpkeys.

They should be more than happy to cut you a few for a little green. ;) About 3$ a standard key is a good price, but you could pay as much as 6$ for a special pin tumbler key.

[InfernoMDM]

I looked at the spaceing webpage that was archived. I am haveing a problem making my own bumpkey. In all honesty I wish someone would photo copy some actual working bumpkeys next to a ruler, so you could print them out and hand do the work. Anyone on here capable of doing that?

[lock]

I looked at the spaceing webpage that was archived. I am haveing a problem making my own bumpkey. In all honesty I wish someone would photo copy some actual working bumpkeys next to a ruler, so you could print them out and hand do the work. Anyone on here capable of doing that?

What keys or key are you looking for? So far, I've never seen a bumpkey template, If you have a working key, or a blank and a caliper, making your own is incredibly easy.

I might be able to post a few pics, depending what you need.

[Ofortuna]

The hard part when looking at depth & spacing guides is that the "depth" they talk about is actually the amount of key left over...
I at first thought it was the distance from the top of the key to the bottom of the valley. It's the distance from the bottom of the key to the bottom of the valley. So you can just measure it by putting a mic/caliper on it.

I put the HPC depth & spacing guide (lists most locks) & a guide to hand filing code keys that was originally a posted to a forum (don't remember which one, probably ezpickings or lp101) up on rapid share as "get organised.rar"
http://rapidshare.com/files/45708930/get_organized.rar.html
pass word is of course, roguesci.org

You work at Ace? Score on the blanks!
Every body else, just get blanks at Home Despot or Lowes, tell them you're practicing to be a locksmith & have to file a key by hand, but you screwed up the blanks you were given. They'll charge you for making a key anyway, oh well...

If you need a cheap caliper, there's one on sale at Harbor freight for $6 that would work quite nicely for this task
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93293

[crazywhiteguy]

I made a bump key on Tuesday and I've got it to work on my front door. I used an old key and my new house key to find the lowest settings. It didn't take much work to file the key down. After you find the lowest setting its all about tracing the place where the pin falls and sawing/filing to that level while sawing the surrounding areas to make little ramps.

[totenkov]

I applaud your accomplishments :rolleyes:. Get some old dead bolts or locks from the local locksmith, practicing lock picking/bumping on your own from door is pretty dumb. Don't pick locks you rely on!

[gunsforeveryone]

Here is a link to a How to .pdf from a retail site.
http://www.bump-j.com/New_15_Bumpkey_template_and_instructions-DIST.pdf

[crazywhiteguy]

I applaud your accomplishments :rolleyes:. Get some old dead bolts or locks from the local locksmith, practicing lock picking/bumping on your own from door is pretty dumb. Don't pick locks you rely on!

I'm practice my bump key on my lock because the lock I am picking is the same brand as the lock on my front door. There are many different locks that have different numbers of pins and different pin spacings. I got lucky in having a key that matched.

If anyone wants to know. My attempt at making a bump key failed. The key I made might work on other locks but not on the one i want to open. I disassembled an old lock i had in my garage and found that the brand name WEISER uses a spring pin design that does not let the pins 'bounce' or 'jump' as they would in older locks. The only option for me now is to make a copy of the original key or make a variable cut key that i had a design for a while back

[monkeyboy]

WEISER uses a spring pin design that does not let the pins 'bounce' or 'jump' as they would in older locks.

To my knowledge Weiser does has not introduced any bump preventative technology yet.

Are the springs above the upper set of pins, like this:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Pin_tumbler_unlocked.png

That's the way they're designed.

See this for more info:
http://www.lockbumping.org/lock-bump.html

In the last couple months, a couple of the pin tumbler lock mfgs have come out with bump preventative technology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping#Lock_brands
Older than a couple months, it's either a pin tumbler lock, which bumping works on, or a wafer tumbler lock (older Schlage), which will also bump.

Unless you're in Europe, then it could be any weird-ass lock. I'd actually like to play around with some of those weird-ass locks, pretty cool stuff. Definitely not run of the mill.

Bumpstop™ Door Hardware by Master Lock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsE_Y2DJA_s

SmartKey By Kwikset
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocEUhxMzhn8

PickBuster fluid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGX6jyyIkPk

[crazywhiteguy]

To my knowledge Weiser does has not introduced any bump preventative technology yet.

I might just be missing a detail. I tried to make a key with just the understanding I had on how the key should have worked. but the key I used to make the first bump key was designed for the lock that I tested it on. When the key was tried on the target door it didn't work. It also had more trouble getting in and out of the target lock. When I took apart my lock I noticed that the lock had heavier than normal springs that didn't let the pins jump enough to let the tumbler to turn. As many times as I tried it I didn't get any noticeable jump in the pins. At this point I would be happy with making a copy of the target key. Even if that defeats the purpose of having a bump key.

[Logic Probe]

I bought a set of five bump keys, Kwikset, 4- and 5-pin Schlage, ML, etc online for $15, then defrayed the cost, in a manner of speaking, by letting a couple of like-minded friends get copies cut from them. They just took them down to Home Depot and had duplicate sets in no time. I guess I could have charged them, but it's only money.

As for using one as a house key, I'll have to try that. I bought a re-keying set (should be called re-pinning, really), and it's easy to reset the lock to match the key. Wouldn't want to leave it that way, though, since anyone with a bump key could walk right in.

Also, a cheap and easy way to make a lock bump-resistant, if not - proof, is to cut a little sliver off a foam ear plug and put it inside the spring behind any of the pins. It compresses with the right key, but it takes the "bounce" right out of that pin.

[BIGdaddy]

Here are templates for bumpkeys that members are looking for. Enjoy http://www.bump-j.com/New_15_Bumpkey_template_and_instructions-DIST.pdf

[generallisimo]

Here are templates for bumpkeys that members are looking for. Enjoy http://www.bump-j.com/New_15_Bumpkey_template_and_instructions-DIST.pdf

Fantastic tutorial. Thank you.