Radioactive Isotopes from Medical Machines?

[abdulraheem7]

Does anyone know what quantities of cobalt-60 or iridium-192 can be found in radiographic machines?

[nbk2000]

This naturally begs the questions:

A) How much are you looking for.

B) How would you get it out without killing yourself.

C) How do you intend to disperse it

because the only thing you could possibly be interested in is using it for is to

D) Build a radiological weapon (AKA 'dirty bomb').

Am I wrong?

[abdulraheem7]

I'm just doing some research - I've looked at the other posts on dirty bombs and I didn't see anyone mention those two materials. Do you think this would be a viable method for procuring materials for a dirty bomb?

[Jacks Complete]

Since the doctors in the Bagdad main hospital at the start of the Gulf War hid all the radioactive stuff in the basement, I'd say that they were scared enough to think it a threat.

[FullMetalJacket]

Well, there's always the radioisotope dyes they feed you, like iodines to check on your thyroid, but they're obvious harmless. And I think the radiographical machines use cesium isotopes, most commonly.

[Parsons TDFC]

I'm a complete FNG here, but this is a subject with which I have some professional experience.

Most current x-ray machines used for human/biological imaging use electronic x-ray sources. Most field deployable industrial x-ray sources (i.e., weld inspection) use radioactive material for their x-ray source. Most industrial x-ray sources are a fraction to a few curies. Including the containing capsule, think of them as an inch long piece of pencil or so. There are some human/imaging machines intended for field use that use radioactive sources, but due to the issues of loosing control of those sources they are pretty rare anymore.

One of the most famous incidents is where a cobalt-60 x-ray source was stolen and scrapped out is here:

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/radevents/1983MEX1.html

There were approximately 6,000 1mm pellets in the source totaling about 400 curies of Co-60 (call it 30 grams of pellets). This is a pretty large radiation source. The cobalt pellets are raw metal with possibly a thin outer coating of stainless steel. Not the ideal dispersable source for a dirty bomb.

The real issue is other x-ray sources that use Cesium-137 or Strontium-90. Both of these isotopes also give off some pretty energetic gamma/x-rays like Cobalt-60. The big difference is that they are usually found as a finely divided powder, very water soluable chloride salts. Cs and Sr are also readily taken up/absorbed by the body and concentrated in the bones. Here is a paper on some Cs source releases:

http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub815_web.pdf

The other place to look for large isotopic radiation sources are sterilization places. I've seen some very large (thousands of curies) Cs sources that were used for sterilization of medical equipment. These sources were large enough to have to be stored in a 20' deep water pool and gave off enough radiation to cause Cherenkov glow (the bright blue glow) in the water. Very impressive with the lights out.

Here is a web site listing a bunch of major accidents. For this discussion, you can ignore any of the criticality accidents and look at the ones that mention "radiography", "lost source", "irradiator accident"

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/radevents/radaccidents.html

[akinrog]

Actually, if I would be a wanna-be terrorist, I would not be playing with Co-60.

About a decade ago, a few ignorant factory workers of a thermal power plant decided to remove the core and install a new core of a gamma-ray weld inspection machine in the factory. The ignorant fools handle the core with their bare hands and now two of them disfigured and completely fused fingers and it's reported that it took two years for their radiologically opened wounds to heal and close and they have some cancer growths in their bodies.

In summary, they are death men.

So my friend Abdulraheem, give up your crush for radiological isotopes before bringing more mayhem to your correligionists :mad: :mad:. Regards.

[Parsons TDFC]

Hopefully anybody asking these questions knows that a multi-curie source is nothing to trifle with, especially bare handed.

The whole-body dose you'd get would be bad, even worse would be any uptake of the isotope (inhalation or ingestion).

Time (as in minimize the time around the source), distance (the further away the better) and shielding (the right shield for the radiation source, and enought to attenuate the radiation) are your friends.

What you describe are typical necrotic radiation burns - think of a brown recluse or hobo spider bite on a much larger scale with the added bonus of an increased chance of contracting cancer. Depending on the dose to other parts of their bodies, they might also have had hair loss or stomach/GI issues and blood/platlet issues.

There are mulitple accidents each year where somebody gets stupid or careless with an industrial/isotopic x-ray source.

M

[Cobalt.45]

abdulraheem as a UN, intent to build and possibly deploy a "dirty bomb" and still gets good usable info. A generous lot, we.

[nbk2000]

The sooner the ragheads go nuclear, the sooner we can nuke them into oblivion. :)

'Fused fingers'?! :eek: Sounds freaky. :D

[FullMetalJacket]

...a few ignorant factory workers of a thermal power plant decided to remove the core and install a new core of a gamma-ray weld inspection machine in the factory. The ignorant fools handled the core with their bare hands and now two of them disfigured and completely fused fingers and it's reported that it took two years for their radiologically opened wounds to heal and close and they have some cancer growths in their bodies.


Yikes. Fucking owned.

Fused finegrs sounds like those photoshopped shock images you see.

++++++++++++++

Don't quote whole posts! Only quote the relevant section. :rolleyes: NBK

[akinrog]

Yikes. Fucking owned.

Fused finegrs sounds like those photoshopped shock images you see.

++++++++++++++


No they are not photoshop retouched images. Actually, the news never clearly showed their hands but blurred them, since it's forbidden to show images harmful to kids. (I know what you shall say to this :D)

However, since these are cheap seasonal laborers (hired by a greedy contractor who took a repair job in the factory), they are not equipped with necessary equipment and even not warned about the dangers.

A few days after the incident, their hands develop ulcereous wounds (which nobody can understand the cause) and receive wrong treatment and a few fingers of their hands have been disfigured and partially fused since they have been held in bandage together for prolonged period of time.

After failing the treatment doctor inquires about their recent history and determines the cause from their stories (i.e. gamma ray weld inspection machine). And when they found about it, nearly 4 months passed after the incident and operations after operations to remove necrotic tissue, they have now fused fingers. They try to litigate the contractor but since they have no money they fail it. (Apparently) after a few years of judicial struggle, they decide to go to media and that's how the event makes the news.:eek: