Anyone have experience in de-limiting Canadian hi-cap magazines?

[Gollum]

I am looking at buying a .45 in hi capacity, but due to the 10 round restriction for pistol mags it's a pain in the ass. It should be able to hold 12 or 13 rounds with the high capacity mags.

I'd also like to be able to modify some magazines for the vz 58 that I'm going to pick up soon, the 5 round magazine really sucks. It should be a 30 round magazine.

Anyone know how to remove the limiter in the mags without destroying the magazine, and allowing it to be used to full capacity?

[tiac03]

So wait you want to go from a 10 round mag to a 12-13 round one? I don't understand why you would risk getting caught with an illegal mag for 2-3 rounds instead of just buying more 10 round ones...

As for the other mags there should be a pin welded in the mags along a corner, just open up the mag, find the pin and find a way to pry it/ grind it off.

Anyways if you opened up the mags you would have seen what I am talking about. It's not hard to spot just a piece of metal that stops the mag from going further down than the 5 round mark. (atleast it should be, thats how they block the SKS 10 round mags)

Obviously modifying a mag can get you thrown into jail so before you do that ask yourself if it would just be better to buy more 5 round ones... but since you probably don't have the right kind of licene for that rifle anyways I guess you arn't worried about mag restriction. So have fun...

[Gollum]

Actually the rifle can be bought with your basic firearms license.. it's just a normal semi-auto rifle. However it's not like anyone is going to know about the mods I'm doing to it. Strictly in-the-bush shooting gun.

+ An extra 3 rounds in a 45 caliber gun are perfectly welcome with me.

Are you sure it's as simple as you decribe? I heard somewhere that they not only put a pin through the mags but cut some of the spring in the mag so it won't handle that many rounds.. Not sure about that though.

[Nico]

In the US while the ban was in place, mag bodies often had indented ridges preventing the follower from going any lower to accept more rounds.
Some mags just had "tall" followers that would hit bottom sooner than full-caps, these could be replaced with normal followers.

[Dank$taVegas]

I would say your better off to get 3 extra clips as any one can switch out a clip and be slinging lead down range in a matter of seconds..... And this way you are perfectly legal. What is 3 extra bullets going to do really, when you could have another clip slapped in in a matter of seconds.

High capacity clips sold in Canada vary in design the one that I am familiar with is a permanent pinned clip, and have had a block of steel riveted or tack welded into the inside of the magazine. This can be filed out or grind, drill, dremel or use a hack saw blade to remove this pesky block of steal. This is the type of clip that I am familiar with but there are a number of ways of limiting the amount of ammo a clip can hold depending on the company you obtain your clip from. When modifying a clip I do believe you will have to modify the spring as well. So a new spring will have to be fabricated or ordered from a manufacture.

Another option at getting a high capacity clip with out being limited; is if you know someone who works in a Army Surplus store, they usually have connections and can get what you want under the table. They usually don't deal with people they don't know, as it is risky to them.
My friends dad has a 30 round banana clip for his .22 semi auto, which he obtained through a Army Surplus Store in Canada and it is an awesome gopher shooting clip; you can shoot up dust trails behind a gopher as it running away

When your out in the field or in the bush the chance of getting caught with a un-restricted clip are slim to none. Just don't give the porkers any reason to search your house.

Do a search on Google.ca and search Canada only, for .45 High capacity clips I'm sure you will come up with many manufactures and they will specify how the clip is made on their web site on if they don't and you really want to find out you could E-Mail them and ask how their clips are limited.

[Big Mac]

I could have sworn that they build some of the mags to where you basically will destroy it if you try to modify it. Either that or if you have no exact idea what you are doing you will destroy it.

Personally throwing good money away for marginal magazine capacity isn't worth it. If you need 13 rounds of .45 ACP, you're probably in over your head. I wouldn't recommend it, not to mention liberal courts love to fry people for doing things like that as opposed to actual criminals. Just saying, are 3 rounds worth it?

[Dank$taVegas]

Wow I must have been sleeping to have missed that!


"Actually the rifle can be bought with your basic firearms license."


Wrong.

These guns are Restricted in Canada, but not banned. Meaning any one with a "RESTRICTED LICENCE", who can legally own handguns and other restricted gun may purchase one.

So just having a basic fire arms license will not allow you to obtain this type of firearm or handgun for that matter. Although getting a "Restricted License" isn't too hard at all. If I remember correctly it's a weekend class, or you can opt to take the test without the course (In class time). :D

I took the weekend course some time back.....You might want to talk to your dealer that you are planning on obtaining your Rifle & Hand gun from, and ask him about this as I'm 99.9% sure that every where in Canada is the same, and they are concidered "Restricted Guns".

The VZ-58S carbine that is imported in to Canada is not the military issue ones sold else where, each one is made to abide by gun laws here, meaning they are a watered down ‘civilian legal’ version incorporating a purpose built semi-automatic ONLY receiver!

This carbine is produced by the original manufacturer and is identical to its brother the original military issue VZ-58 in every detail with the sole exception being use of a special semi-auto receiver which cannot accept full-auto fire control components.

So the one you are planning on buying is a VZ-58S Carbine, unless you are buying an illegally imported version, sold under the table or on the black market.

The usual cost of one of these "Civilian legal versions" VZ-58S run from $600-$700 new "Canadian dollars".

[Gollum]

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about- the VZ58's that have been imported into Canada can ALL be purchased with the basic unrestricted license. The guns are NOT restricted firearms. They're semi automatic long guns and therefore fall under the non restricted category of firearms. Call the firearms centre for yourself if you don't believe that. They're open until 7pm eastern time every weekday. They have a website too which can be found on google.

Making modifications to the magazines or firing mechanisims is of course illegal, but exactly how is anyone going to know about those changes?

Also, FWIW, modifying guns to fire full auto is in my opinion, useless. Full auto is a big waste of ammunition, you can fire nearly as fast with a semi auto just by tapping the trigger numerous times. And it's much more accurate that way. The purpose of having 30 round magazines is one of convenience and saved time.

[Dank$taVegas]

Web site link below:

The military issue VZ-58 carbine is a definite departure from the norm in both historical terms and with regards to the 'semi-auto only' version we have introduced to the Canadian market. Originally developed in Czechoslovakia during the 1950's, the Samopal VZ-58 was adopted by that country in 1958. This is no small accomplishment given most other Warsaw Pact countries were 'persuaded' by the U.S.S.R. to manufacture Kalashnikov AK-47 rifles rather than use their own designs. That the light, well-balanced VZ-58 carbine remains the front-line infantry rifle of the Czech Republic almost 50 years after it was adopted is further proof of its excellent ergonomics and reliability.

Now, thanks to Marstar Canada, a ‘civilian legal’ version incorporating a purpose built semi-automatic only receiver has been imported for the Canadian market! Our VZ-58S carbine is produced by the original manufacturer and is identical to the original military issue VZ-58 in every detail with the sole exception being use of a special semi-auto receiver which cannot accept full-auto fire control components.

Each carbine incorporates new and arsenal refinished milspec components and is individually inspected, test-fired, and certified by the Czech Proof House prior to our importing them. As this rifle is not a Kalashnikov (AK-47) variant it is not prohibited. The VZ-58 (VZ-58S) features the original military length 390mm chrome-lined barrel (restricted, meaning anyone licensed to own handguns may purchase one). The following accessories are included:
Taken from:
http://www.marstar.ca/gf-VZ-58/VZ-58S.shtm

Everyone that I go shooting with also tells me that these guns are considered "Restricted Firearms" as well. One of the guys is the president of the local gun club, who really dose know his stuff. Maybe something changed and they were just recently taken off the Restricted list.... It's possible. :confused:

I'll search the net later tonight and see what I can dig up. I'll also make a few call to some gun dealer and other places here in my province and see what I am told. I'm also in the process of writing a E-Mail to the company I'll post Both E-mails when I have confirmation.

Anyways, the more I read about this gun the more I'm starting to like it, we'll see maybe I'll have to get myself a early B-day present. ;) Naw I'm still paying of my deer gun I got last year :rolleyes:

Cheers

[Dank$taVegas]

Some things I have found, please take note of the Bold & Underlined Parts.

Restricted firearms include:

handguns that are not prohibited;
semi-automatic, centre-fire rifles and shotguns with a barrel shorter than 470 mm (about 18.5 inches);
rifles and shotguns that can be fired when their overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping or other means to less than 660 mm (about 26 inches)

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/faq/default_e.asp

features the original military length 390mm chrome-lined barrel (restricted, meaning anyone licensed to own handguns may purchase one).

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-VZ-58/VZ-58S.shtm

So there it is, this gun is concidered a Restricted Firearm in Canada. Also some guns are even more restricted in the provincial level, so this is just the basic's for Canada...Some Provinces are even more harsh.

These Regulations came into force on December 1, 1998, so if you were inquirig about this gun before this date, maybe that is why you were told this firearm could be purchesed with your FAC Licence which classed fire arms into 2 class. As of December 1 1998, Fire Arms were devided into 3 classes (Non-Restricted, Restricted & Prohibited)

There are three classes of firearms: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited.
Non-restricted firearms are ordinary rifles and shotguns, other than those referred to below.
Restricted firearms include:
handguns that are not prohibited;
semi-automatic, centre-fire rifles and shotguns with a barrel shorter than 470 mm (about 18.5 inches);
rifles and shotguns that can be fired when their overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping or other means to less than 660 mm (about 26 inches); and
firearms restricted by Criminal Code Regulations.
Prohibited firearms include:
handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm (about 4.14 inches) or less and handguns that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition, except for a few specific ones used in International Shooting Union competitions;
rifles and shotguns that have been altered by sawing or other means so that their barrel length is less than 457 mm (about 18 inches) or their overall length is less than 660 mm (about 26 inches);
full automatics;
converted automatics, namely full automatics that have been altered so that they fire only one projectile when the trigger is squeezed; and
firearms prohibited by Criminal Code Regulations.

On another note about how Hi Cap magazines are limited: This should give you an idea of how the magazine in question is made and that way you can plan how you intend to modify it. After reading this and other related material, some magazines will be almost imposible to modify with out destroying the Mag.

A large-capacity magazine is not prohibited if it has been permanently altered so that it cannot hold more than the number of cartridges allowed by law. Methods accepted by law here in Canada include:
In the case of a magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion & attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of aluminum or steel (as the case may be)
may be welded, brazing or another similar method.

In the case of a magazin with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum the attachment plug, sleeve, rod etc that is similar to that of the material of the magazine casing, may be welded, brazing or other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as a cement or an epoxy or other glue.

Hope this helps you out a bit....

Have you concidered making your own magazine this might be an easier way to go about getting the extra 3 shots you desire.

[Gollum]

Sorry, you are wrong, I have a recording of a firearms officer and a police officer telling me that the gun is legal.

[Jacks Complete]

Ok, stop arguing. One of you is saying it is banned because it is a semi-auto rifle, the other is saying it isn't, because it is too short to be a rifle, and hence is a handgun.

As for the extra 3 rounds in the mag, forget about it. That's the kind of thing that bites you in the ass for no reason. I can't see a benefit there, YMMV. However, the 5 up to 30 round conversion, that's probably worth doing. I'd leave it stashed in a baggie under a rock where you shoot, though, and would never take it home, just in case. Losing your license for a trivial infraction would be a bitch.

[Dank$taVegas]

There is no arguing going on, we are trying to figure out if this gun is Restricted or not… So far all the information I have found and posted says this gun is Classified as a Restricted fire arm, I never said it was banned either, you need a special license to own one. The license is very easy to get as well. The reason why this gun is Restricted is due to the barrel length, as that is what all the information I have gathered says.

If however my information I gathered (From a government site, and one of the biggest Importers of this gun into Canada, and other reliable sources I have talked to) are wrong, I would like to know. So if you could post something that will say other, I'm all ears and willing to admit I was wrong, and all the other sources I have gathered info from were wrong too, then they should be contacted to make corrections on their sites since they are spreading miss-leading information to the public.
.
I'm sorry if it comes off like I'm arguing, I'm just trying to find and post correct information in the forums. As that is one thing that had drawn me here, all the knowledgeable people, and 99.9% of the information is correct (Unlike most other places on the internet).

[Dank$taVegas]

I have a recording of a firearms officer and a police officer telling me that the gun is legal
I'm sure you do, this gun is legal in Canada, there is no question about that. It is just Restricted.

I have gotten around to calling today "The Canada Firearms Centre (CAFC)" which is run from a branch of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as Monday was a holiday, and inquired about the Samopal VZ-58S, and they confirmed that this gun in question is classified as a "Restricted Gun" due to the fact that the barrel is shorter than 470 mm. And in order to purchase this rifle in question you will need to have a "Restricted License".
Anyone would like to inquire about this for them self can Call 1 800 731-4000 or visit the Canada Firearms Center's web site at www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca. The number is a toll free call.
I'll leave it at this, since all my questions and doubts have been answered with that simple phone call.

[cletus]

An extended mag base will get you an extra 3 rounds of.45, I am guessing that the pistol is a 1911 style.

Simply slide your mag base off and install the extended one. This works for the para ordance and norinco hi-cap mags. Talk to any IPSC shooter in your club and find the nearest accesory dealer.

These are legal to own in canada, installing them is not.

[tiac03]

The beauty of the canadian system is that they have the 3 basic types of fire arms, and the definition of each. Then some guy looks at pictures of guns and classifies them due to how scary they look. (The chinese made a .22 that looks like a crappy knockoff of an m-16, and its listed as restricted here)

Any weapon that was originally full auto but converted to semi, can fall into restricted or prohibited, because they were originally full auto. and I believe there is something in there that says "ak-47 and their varients".

It wouldn't even surprise me if they listed it as a prohibited weapon because it 'looks dangerous'

The 1928 thompson for example is prohibited even though it was built only as a semi automatic. and just to tell you about those people incharge, a thompson according to them is "too powerful" to shoot in a shooting range (indoor pistol/ small rifle) even though you can fire any pistol you want. Its like saying a sten is too powerfull to shoot indoors.




I don't know about now how they have changed it since harper has been in charge though, so maybe it is different now.

[charger]

I'm hoping this may help clarify the legality of the cz 58 in Canada. As sold by Marstar, it is a restricted firearm, because of the short barrel. However, there is another Canadian supplier, Wolverine Supplies, that sells a non-restricted version called the CZ 858 -2. It has a barrel length of 19 inches, making it legal to own with a regular license. Hope this helps

[Dank$taVegas]

Thank you for the heads up on the Wolverine Supplies site, you inadvertently pointed me in the right direction for a product I was searching for! :D I have been in contact with the dealer and have ordered a catalog from them.

I can confirm that this dealer "Wolverine Supplies" Imports both versions of this said gun the Restricted VZ-58S "Restricted Version" with the 390mm barrel and a "Non Restricted Version" CZ 585 with the 482 mm.

This is a good example of why it is critical to provide proper details about anything talked about on the forums. For when you are referring to the VZ-58S you are talking about a Restricted gun, and all the information I found pointed to this, had you said you were planning on getting the CZ 585 the information would have pointed to a Non Restricted gun. As NBK2000 points out in his riddles all the time, the changing of a letter number or anything can make a big difference on the topic.

I.e.. The id riddle referred to in the Fake ID thread!

Thank you for clearing this up charger and for providing the name of the dealer.

This company (Wolverine Supplies) might be a good place for you gollum to ask and find out information about Hi-Cap magazines, since on their web site they have a few for sale, and after getting off the phone with the owner he seems like a really nice guy, who went well out of his way to help answer all my question I had. So I'm sure he would be more than happy to give you a run down of how Hi-Cap Magazines that he sell are limited. Just don't tell him you plans.

[Marmaloon]

Here's the poop so to speak:

Non-restricted version:

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/default.asp?Pg=8&do=3&mcid=1&scid=12&pid=43

Restricted version:

http://www.marstar.ca/rifles.htm

I hear they are quite nice. I would consider one good for lugging around in the bush. My first choice for a military serious gun would be a Garand, however. For an extra $100 dollars or so more than the Wolverine Supply version, that's the general asking price for a Garand. My big bro has a Dane and a nice Canuck T-26 *referring to the barrel, which is 19 inches. Also notice Marstar is selling the parts-made-in-Vietnam, assembled-in-the-warehouse-district-in-Australia #4 knockoffs. I would not buy one as they are apparently made by the Asian mafia. As an aside, you can get all the standard capacity 25-50 round magazines for the Ruger 10/22, it's just too bad such a magazine is not offered for the 10/22 Magnum, if so, I suspect that would be a more popular gun up here, although the ammo price would put that in check, too, as we all know .22 Magnum ammo is expensive.

As for 'de-limiting'(?) I would not touch that with a 10 foot pole. If you need more rounds, get a pouch made up with stripper clips with 5 rounds in each. I think you may be able to get them from one or other of the above vendors. The Cz is set up for stripper clips, unless you want to put a scope and a half dozen :rolleyes: Picatinny rails on it.

[Nico]

For adding capacity to standard magazines, the brand "Arredondo" is the best for quality and the round-count:size ratio (i.e. a G18 mag has tons of capacity but the dang thing sticks out a mile :) )... Brownell's carries 'em.

[InfernoMDM]

I played with the real thing over in Iraq, some Air Force POG was trying to tell me how it was a AK-47. Although similar in appearance they defiantly aren't. From what I do remember though the magazines are damn near the same. I would assume to save money these guys probably made the magazines with either a block and short spring, or a pin like others have said. If so then it wont be any problem cutting out the block/pin.

The only real issue will be getting springs. Instead of fabrication you might want to purchase some full size springs and have someone mail them to you from the US as "replacement car part" etc. That might since I doubt Canada keeps a record of what the hell a AK spring looks like through a X-ray machine. As long as the bodies and followers aren't sent I think you will be set.

As for the extra rounds in the pistol see above. If for some reason it is a 1911 you could probably send the base plates the same way, but you will need the springs as well. I haven't really meet anyone who believes anything over 10 rounds is a good idea in a 1911. They apparently don't function as well, feed properly, and I am not even sure any good companies like wilson, Chip McCormick(SP) carry them. I could be wrong, but all the 1911 nuts really look down on anything above 10 rounds.

Now I am going to bed with my Walther and 1911 in this fine state that allows me to own them without being anally probed over a stupid round count. I mean jesus if you have 3 more rounds you might actually be able to hit someone because the first 10 are warning shots right? Good luck.

[LurkerLurker]

Another option at getting a high capacity clip with out being limited; is if you know someone who works in a Army Surplus store, they usually have connections and can get what you want under the table. They usually don't deal with people they don't know, as it is risky to them.

My friends dad has a 30 round banana clip for his .22 semi auto, which he obtained through a Army Surplus Store in Canada and it is an awesome gopher shooting clip; you can shoot up dust trails behind a gopher as it running away
.

The magazine size restriction does not apply to rimfires in Canada.
For example, the 10-22 butlercreek steel lips magazines.
They were available in Canada, even when USA had their hi-cap ban.

[Killy]

This is total nonsense, from 10 to 13 rounds of .45 ???
Majority of the .45 pistols holds only 10 rounds, due to the pretty big round,
there are not so many gun models that hold more and have normal magazine not sticking out of the frame.