AP from O2

[Hawk]

Has anyone attemped to make AP from Bubbling
oxygen through a solution of acetone and HCL? If so did you have any success.

[kingspaz]

the simplest way to make oxygen uses peroxide and a catalyst (yeast, liver, potato) so why do that when you could just use the peroxide directly in the reaction.

[PYRO500]

I think that the peroxide is necessary for the reaction to work, you ned the h atoms to be replaced by C(CH₃)<sub2</sub> and I think that the acid somehow catalizez the acetone to bond at the points and replace the H or something like that. anyways that is just my guess I could be wrong. I think what he meand is like bubbling air through the solution with a cheap air pump or something. maybee PHILOUZ. could help here.

[Mr Cool]

The equation for the trimer is:

3 CH3COCH3 + 3 H2O2 + HCl --> HCl + 3 H2O + ((CH3)2CO2)3

I don't see why this wouldn't work as well:

3 CH3COCH3 + 1.5 O2 + HCl --> HCl + ((CH3)2CO2)3

but it'd take longer.

[kingspaz]

the reason i don't think it would work is because when H2O2 decomposes to H2O and a free oxygen atom. air contains only O2 not O alone. i dunno, i'm doing A level chemistry next year so i'll know more then hopefully http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[Mr Cool]

Ether, THF and MANY other things are peroxidised by atmospheric O2, so acetone with a catalyst may very well be able to.

[kingspaz]

mr cool, thats a good point you have there. something i didn't think of. what might help aid O2 dissolving in water is one of those porous rock things on the end of fish tank pumps which make very small bubbles.

[Anthony]

I know that bubbling air through water only dissolves a miniscule amount of oxygen, so considering the reactants for AP are mostly water, the reaction using oxygen - if it works would probably take a very long time.

[PHILOU Zrealone]

O2 can peroxydise aceton but you would need strong sun exposure and oxygen stream! Aceton has to be cold since when cold a higher contain of O2 can be acheived.
Of course seed of reaction is low and exposure to sunlight can retroact as soon as the concentration of peroxydes is sufficient...boom.

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[Mr Cool]

I was going to suggest UV light, but I thought that would decompose the AP as soon as it was made.
Hey, I've got a great idea - stick to using H2O2!

[PYRO500]

what if you used O₃ ?

[Mr Cool]

I'm sure it'd work, but ask yourself: which would be easier, quicker and cheaper, H2O2 or O3???

[Anthony]

Wouldn't O3 decompose the acetone?

[fightclub]

There is a German patent that mentions Ozone will give peroxides with Acetone, but not the cyclic explosive dimeric and trimeric acetone peroxides you guys are thinking about.

I doubt reaction with oxygen will work, Acetone and hydrochloric acid leads to compounds like Phorone (Diisopropylideneacetone; ((CH3)2C:CHCOCH:C(CH3)2), Mesityl oxide (CH3COCH:C(CH3)2) and other products.

[This message has been edited by fightclub (edited July 04, 2001).]

[PHILOU Zrealone]

O3 react with cetones to give some unstable compounds way to unstable! The reaction is very common in organic chemistry and takes place at -80C with dilluted O3 (what is explosive on its own); you get ozonides and some weird molecules with cyclic rings of O. They finally split in craboxylic acids.
Aceton will gives formic acid, acetic acid and carbonic acid!

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[CodeMason]

Phorone will apparently peroxidize to an explosive with a velocity of 9000m/s.

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[PHILOU Zrealone]

9000m/s from what source?