Forum Policy on Drug Related

[Meawoppl]

What is the forum policy on drug relared issues?
I saw some pretty harsh wording in the rules section:
"Do not bother posting . . . anything about drugs"
but in the opening page it discusses
"commercially important pharmaceuticals . . . are our passion"

I'm not intending to post meth recipies or anything as k3wlish as that, but I have been very interested in pharmaceutical called modafinil and some of the synthesis pathways.

I realize that this is not the place to do in depth discussion of it, but my o-chem isn't as sharp as it should be, and thusly I have had some questions that I am sure you guys wouldnt mind instructing me a bit with.

[jellywerker]

Ah, Provigil, I too have an interest in this. For those who haven't heard of it before, it's a drug made for certain sleep disorders, especially extreme sleepiness/proneness to falling asleep. On subjects who didn't have these issues, the drug kept them awake for up 2 two days, with no feelings of tiredness when the drug wore off, just a resumption of normal sleep habits. Still under study is what it does to your sleep debt and what happens with extended use.

[nbk2000]

Drug discussions are better served on dedicated sites, such as Rhodium or The Hive.

But, since those sites are no more, there's not much left in the way of knowledgeable discussion on the subject of drug synth.

We don't permit discussion on drugs used for recreational purposes.

We do permit discussion on the use of drugs as weapons, though.

So, if you want to discuss the synthesis of a synthethic opiate or hallucinogen for use as an incapacitant or CW, that's allowed.

Otherwise, it's a case-by-case decision.

In the case of modafinil, go ahead and start a topic if you want.

[megalomania]

I wouldn't bother posting anything about modafinil just yet because I am writing up a section on it for my website. If you end up posting the same stuff I have written, I will just get pissed because I wouldn't want anyone to think I stole your work.

I hope to have it done by the end of this week. I am trying not to get bogged down in too much minute. For example I spent an hour trying to figure out if modafinil is capitalized or not. Cephalon never refers to modafinil, only Provigil because they have a brand to protect and promote. Modafinil is a generic name, not a trade name, so I have decided the lower case form is acceptable, although I am not positive on that. I could not find anything about drug naming in my style guide.

I specifically mention pharmaceuticals on the website, not narcotics or drugs. Consumer drugs under patent protection are very expensive cash cows for the pharmaceutical industry. I would prefer discussion to center only on commercial prescription drugs since, to my knowledge, no one else does this. Info abounds for meth, Ecstasy, and the like, but not consumer drugs. I consider it a form of justice for people to be able to make their own prescription medicine to bypass the inflated profit margins of the big companies.

The profit margins on many drugs are several dozen times what it costs to make those drugs. The spirit of The Forum should embrace the independent and self sufficient chemists need to have a well stocked medicine cabinet regardless of what a doctor prescribes, the government legislates, the FDA approves, or the greedy companies charge.

[Meawoppl]

I appreciate the effort that you all have put into answering my question. Keep me posted as to the status of that related website section I have a good amount that I can contribute.

As for the discussion of naming/capitilization, i don't think that trivial names get caps, but anything that has a TM or copyright or is used as a 'trade name' probably will recieve capitalized status. That is just my experience.

Also modafinil itself is under shaky patent protection at the moment, I know the initial patent ran out, but now there is some new patents on synthesis pathways, as well as a "Particle size patent", but I am not sure the exact implications of either. The pharmaceutical companys that want to market generics have some claims as to whether "a particle size patent is sufficient protection against the manufacture of generics" -Wikipedia

Better living through chemistry? I hope so, all we have to do is slay half the staff and paperwork assoc. w/ the FDA.
Thanks again!

[azaleaem]

I asked one of my buddies about this Rx and he had taken it in a study. (he's done about a dozen of those things for extra cash). He says it was the one that made him throw up. But then again it could have been the placebo that made him vomit. He doesn't find out if he was taking the real thing or not. So....I can take modafinil and stay up for two days vomiting. Sounds like a winner.

[megalomania]

Cephalon is playing patent games to bolster their profit margins, like the good little money grubbing corporation they are. The particle size patents are dubious at best, but you must realize it is marketing that is their game.

Marketing! Cephalon has been aggressively defending their patents because modafinil has the potential to be the next aspirin. Cephalon has a patent for r-modafinil, which they are marketing as Nuvigil. This enantiomer may be slightly more biologically active, but to hear their marketing-speak it is the best thing since sliced bread. They want you to forget all about Provigil, and all generic versions thereof, and only use Nuvigil. There particle size patents are being spun into various slow release formulas, blah blah. It’s all a marketing ploy. If they can make the drug ever so slightly better than a generic, they can trash the competition and make more money. Which do you prefer, the 6 cylinder 4.8L 200 HP model or the 6 cylinder 4.8L 205 HP model with racing stripes?

Cephalon tried to patent their formulation of increased modafinil content. Sparlon, the Provigil for bastard demon spawn with ADHD, was denied by the FDA only weeks ago. Denied bitches! Their stock price took a tumble and future FDA approval of other modafinil compositions has investment analysts running for cover.

PM me Meawoppl, I am sure we can work together on getting this out quicker and more polished than we would otherwise do alone.

[JakeGallows]

Megalo - I think that for the most part you're right about the pharmaceutical companies and their profit motives. I'm not sure I entirely agree that a new drug has to be "slightly better" than the old one - perhaps just different.

Someone vomits with modafinil, maybe they don't with nuvigil... Then there are the people who want the newest brand no matter what or the physicians who are influenced by the Pharm rep's pretty legs. Really just a semantic argument but since we differentiate between i and I and id vs ID, I thought it worth mentioning.

[tmp]

I'm all in favor of chemists making their own pharmaceuticals but I'm sure
that buried in the CFR there's probably some felony statute that punishes
us to make sure that big drug companies have no competition. Probably
a war-on-drugs type statute. Remember the laws that were passed for
"fake", not even real, drugs ?

bastard demon spawn with ADHD
Mega, I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that description ! :D
I've encountered a few of these "devil children" and in every case I've
wanted to conduct an "exorcism" with my belt ! :D

[nbk2000]

And people have had the gall to call me evil for referring to children as 'devil spawn'.

I cast thee out, spawn of Satan!
*WHACK!* *WHACK!* *WHACK!*
Back to your room!

:D

[Chris The Great]

Room? How about the cellar! That's how you teach them, nothing like a week eating roots and rats with the only water being what floods in when it rains. Also, try to tell the kid Child Services just does the same, except they beat them for frequently. Kids will believe anything, this will keep them from reporting you :D


Anyway, back on topic. Pharma companies will always push their products in an attempt to make more money. I think that developing home procedures for synthesizing prescription drugs will save some people a lot of money and potentially earn a lot of money too, considering drug costs these days.
Making or having prescription drugs without a prescription is illegal AFAIK. Obviously nowhere near as illegal as the demonized recreational drugs, but still illegal. I doubt you'd get much punishment at all unless you where selling in which case big pharma would sue your ass so far into the ground you'd end up working in a sweatshop in China.

[jellywerker]

Hmm, but "filling" the occasional prescription for a friend might not be noticed, and it might save them several hundred dollars, depending on the drug, of course with a small kickback to you to pay for chemical costs. Alas I am not sure if I would trust myself with creating prescription drugs for people though, not till I had plenty of experience and was able to test and see how close to the commercial drug it was, not for me the slaying of a friend! :P

[megalomania]

Anyone remember that episode of South Park where they treat ADD? It's funny because it's true :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucQLYSC9Lho

[nbk2000]

A lot of modern drugs are created not only because they're more effective, but also because, as a new drug, it's patentable, and THAT is where the money is at.

Aspirin is known to be very effective at preventing heart attacks and strokes, but you don't see merck bothering to mention that fact when they've got Prevacor or what-not with a 17 year patent and billions of dollars at stake. :p

[tmp]

Our president, GWB, gave the pharmaceutical companies a good blowjob !
There were incentives($BILLION) as well as making it illegal for U.S.
consumers to purchase their prescriptions in Canada. My father, who is
approaching his 72nd birthday, won't have to worry because of the good
health insurance that he has at the moment. But that can change. If it
becomes necessary, I'll manufacture(if possible) or smuggle it from Canada,
Mexico, or through Internet purchases necessary to help Dad retain his good
health.

Now, before anybody flames my ass, I just want you all to know that I
voted, not once but TWICE, for our current president. It doesn't mean
that I support all of his policies - especiallly where pharmaceuticals are
concerned.

NBK, thanks for the followup and supportive post ! My brother was one of
those "demon spawn" growing up. The little bastard and I always fought -
he never won ! He's turned out pretty good since then.

[c.Tech]

How about the synthesis of drugs that are used as psychoactive but have medical purposes as well? Such as kava lactones (http://www.erowid.org/plants/kava/kava_chemistry.shtml) which are used as herbal anti-anxiety medications or a sedative.

Or drugs that are usually abused but still have medical purposes such as dexamphetamine, ADD/ADHD pills?