PAlquimista
September 7th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Hi everyone…
This is my first thread ,and I decide post in the water cooler because I have afraid of ask any stupid question and speak any stupid comment :eek: …moreover , at the moment, I can’t still post in others threads types because I think which this is reserved for the much more experimented and much more intelligent peoples than I can .. I am really fool, but try optimize my knowdledges…
(sorry by my very poor and horrible grammar… I to hope which anyone understand my words..)
I make this post because I try detonate some HDN ,but not work.! What the problem in my procedures? See:
First synthesis:
In my procedure of synthesis I use impure muriatic acid and impure H2SO4, because here in Brazil is hard getting or buying HNO3,even the very dilute solution! :mad:
first get 100ml of 9.75% HCl (from local supermarket), and dropped in this 10ml of conc. H2SO4(boiled battery acid)..after this I dissolved purified nitrate fertilizer(“Salitre do Chile” 50% KNO3-50%NaNO3),and filtered out the excess .. after ,chilling this solution in an salt iced bath … meanwhile, I poured 10g of hexamine in a small glass container .Added 15ml of water in this, stir and make sure which all of Hexamine be dissolved. Added some nitrate also in this solution (not the saturation point).. chilling also this solution.. with a thermometer (“survivor’s thermometer-compass” from camping stores )I monitored the temperature and see -5°C in both solutions.. added quickly all of HX/nitrates solution in the acid/nitrate stirring vigorously with barbecue wood sticks.. the resultant solution instantly turned “white cloudy” .Quickly fitered of the precipitate with coffee paper filter.. poured collected precipitate in 40ml anhydrous Ethanol and stir few minutes… filtered again and poured in another glass container with more 70ml of absolute ethanol (but these time with some NaOH[not much] dissolved in it)..stir again.. filtered out… washed on the filter with some absolute ethanol to remove any residual NaOH… poured on the dry paper and this below of the incandescent lamp… wait 10 minutes with occasional scrape of white powder to dry them more quickly.. after, I poured the shinny crystals in an improvised dessecator with CaCl2…final yield: aprox. 8-10g of dry HDN…
Second:
Detonation attempt:
Next Day I remove all of HDN and pressed them in a small cylindrical plastic flask with lid. The resultant volume has aprox. 3/5 of total flask volume… with careful , filled the rest of flask with aprox. 5g of AP. Make a small hole in lid and passed homemade fuse (medium burn rate) through it.. with careful , attached the fuse in the lid and put WITH EXTREMELLY CAREFUL(don’t disturbing the AP) ,the lid on the flask,to close them. .. Reinforced the lid with some hard , strong and instant glue and stand hardening…
I placed the “device” in a safe area .. Light the fuse and run away..:eek: the resultant blast was bad.. the sound was similar to my little bombs with 5g AP.the flask disappeared ,but I think which the charge of HDN was throw away ; not was totally detonated or the press was insufficient enough or excessive … what’s occur????
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Below, some comments of peoples which I think be very interesting ideas… (copied from other threads):
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
*Originally posted by Sr. Researcher DBSP(link below):
“(…)As of today I have not yet seen any figures of at which density HDN has a VOD of about ~6000 m/s. I belive we can say the same thing about HDN as AP, is hasn't got a VOD of about 6000 m/s in everyday use. HDN is allso hard to press and is a very fluffy powder.(…)”
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/2705-dinitrate-hexamine-archive-file.html?highlight=Hexamethylenetetramine+dinitra te
*Originally posted by Rooster(in another link,below):
“Zamfe, that is entirely wrong. I have detonated 50grmas of HDN. That was with 5grms of AP though. Full detonation, although not too much damage to the target (tree). You would find residue from 50grams of HDN.
AP powder is also the crystalline form, just smaller crystals.
I've used 1gram of AP and 0,5grams of RDX as a booster for HDN also. Some complete and some incomplete dets.”
*Originally posted by Sr. Researcher Mongo Blongo (link below):
“If the goal was to use "safe" materials then why did you try to use acetone peroxide? NG is much more stable than AP. NG is not as unstable as it is hyped up to be. Sure it is classed unstable for a secondary explosive but it is quite safe.
Anyway I think what you need is a base charge in your detonator like RDX or TNP or something. HDN is very hydroscopic so it would also be a good idea to use just after it has been dried. I have never personally tried detonating HDN but i do know it is quite insensitive so a powerful detonator is the way to go.”
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/2106-dinitrate-hexamine-archive-file.html?highlight=Hexamethylenetetramine+dinitra te
*Originally posted by Sr. researcher Mongo Blongo(link below[actually , next page from link above]):
“Dude, I have never seen a method using H2SO4! I would have thought the H2SO4 would decompose the HDN? You should use HCL and add the Hex all at once (not slowly)!! You should filter as quick as you can (let it sit for 1 hour??)the HDN will start to dissolve. You should wash it with acetone if you want it to dry quick. If you put it in a flame then it will not do anything (It's not a primary explosive).
It should be detonated by HMTD if it is dry enough.
I hope this helps”
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/241-hexamethylenetramine-dinitrate-2.html?highlight=Hexamethylenetetramine+dinitrate
-------------------
-----------------
-------------------
Questions about all topics above:
* Hi, Sr. Researcher DBSP…
Can only HDN detonate with a certain press ? or any pressure is enough? What’s your personal method for pressing HDN and others explosives in a detonator or other device to a decent press???
Thanks …
*Hi, Rooster…
Apparently is better use any booster to complete detonation of HDN.. what the best booster used in improvised detonators you tried use to detonate HDN? TNP? RDX? PETN? Can also CMTNA be used in place of “regular” boosters??? and the better primary explosive? I think which HMTD sounds very good, but AP has much more lower cost of making.. whom the better?currently I trying the DDNP synthesis, but when try make the picramic acid,still no worked...:mad:
Thanks…
*Hi ,Sr. Researcher Mongo Blongo…
forms a “slurry” HDN with NG ? is HDN NG soluble? I remember see quickly another day other thread called “uncommon shaped charges” in the sciencemadness … appeared some mix and proportions,but I forget..only remember see something as “NG/HDN/ANNM” ..maybe I wrong… so is actually better mix the HDN with any explosive(NG, AP or other high sensitive) to facilitate and guarantee the detonation???
Thanks…
*Hi, again, Sr. Researcher Mongo Blongo…
In actually , is my shinny white crystals HDN? You says which “(…)I have never seen a method using H2SO4! I would have thought the H2SO4 would decompose the HDN?(…)” .. My method I used H2SO4 but was diluted when mixing with the others chemicals.. is enough this dilution for decompose all(or part) of HDN??? Can my yield be better than if I use ONLY hydrochloric acid >30%??? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Thanks again..
Again, everyone : really sorry by my poor English and any comment.. I will trying to improve..
Thanks everybody....
This is my first thread ,and I decide post in the water cooler because I have afraid of ask any stupid question and speak any stupid comment :eek: …moreover , at the moment, I can’t still post in others threads types because I think which this is reserved for the much more experimented and much more intelligent peoples than I can .. I am really fool, but try optimize my knowdledges…
(sorry by my very poor and horrible grammar… I to hope which anyone understand my words..)
I make this post because I try detonate some HDN ,but not work.! What the problem in my procedures? See:
First synthesis:
In my procedure of synthesis I use impure muriatic acid and impure H2SO4, because here in Brazil is hard getting or buying HNO3,even the very dilute solution! :mad:
first get 100ml of 9.75% HCl (from local supermarket), and dropped in this 10ml of conc. H2SO4(boiled battery acid)..after this I dissolved purified nitrate fertilizer(“Salitre do Chile” 50% KNO3-50%NaNO3),and filtered out the excess .. after ,chilling this solution in an salt iced bath … meanwhile, I poured 10g of hexamine in a small glass container .Added 15ml of water in this, stir and make sure which all of Hexamine be dissolved. Added some nitrate also in this solution (not the saturation point).. chilling also this solution.. with a thermometer (“survivor’s thermometer-compass” from camping stores )I monitored the temperature and see -5°C in both solutions.. added quickly all of HX/nitrates solution in the acid/nitrate stirring vigorously with barbecue wood sticks.. the resultant solution instantly turned “white cloudy” .Quickly fitered of the precipitate with coffee paper filter.. poured collected precipitate in 40ml anhydrous Ethanol and stir few minutes… filtered again and poured in another glass container with more 70ml of absolute ethanol (but these time with some NaOH[not much] dissolved in it)..stir again.. filtered out… washed on the filter with some absolute ethanol to remove any residual NaOH… poured on the dry paper and this below of the incandescent lamp… wait 10 minutes with occasional scrape of white powder to dry them more quickly.. after, I poured the shinny crystals in an improvised dessecator with CaCl2…final yield: aprox. 8-10g of dry HDN…
Second:
Detonation attempt:
Next Day I remove all of HDN and pressed them in a small cylindrical plastic flask with lid. The resultant volume has aprox. 3/5 of total flask volume… with careful , filled the rest of flask with aprox. 5g of AP. Make a small hole in lid and passed homemade fuse (medium burn rate) through it.. with careful , attached the fuse in the lid and put WITH EXTREMELLY CAREFUL(don’t disturbing the AP) ,the lid on the flask,to close them. .. Reinforced the lid with some hard , strong and instant glue and stand hardening…
I placed the “device” in a safe area .. Light the fuse and run away..:eek: the resultant blast was bad.. the sound was similar to my little bombs with 5g AP.the flask disappeared ,but I think which the charge of HDN was throw away ; not was totally detonated or the press was insufficient enough or excessive … what’s occur????
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Below, some comments of peoples which I think be very interesting ideas… (copied from other threads):
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
*Originally posted by Sr. Researcher DBSP(link below):
“(…)As of today I have not yet seen any figures of at which density HDN has a VOD of about ~6000 m/s. I belive we can say the same thing about HDN as AP, is hasn't got a VOD of about 6000 m/s in everyday use. HDN is allso hard to press and is a very fluffy powder.(…)”
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/2705-dinitrate-hexamine-archive-file.html?highlight=Hexamethylenetetramine+dinitra te
*Originally posted by Rooster(in another link,below):
“Zamfe, that is entirely wrong. I have detonated 50grmas of HDN. That was with 5grms of AP though. Full detonation, although not too much damage to the target (tree). You would find residue from 50grams of HDN.
AP powder is also the crystalline form, just smaller crystals.
I've used 1gram of AP and 0,5grams of RDX as a booster for HDN also. Some complete and some incomplete dets.”
*Originally posted by Sr. Researcher Mongo Blongo (link below):
“If the goal was to use "safe" materials then why did you try to use acetone peroxide? NG is much more stable than AP. NG is not as unstable as it is hyped up to be. Sure it is classed unstable for a secondary explosive but it is quite safe.
Anyway I think what you need is a base charge in your detonator like RDX or TNP or something. HDN is very hydroscopic so it would also be a good idea to use just after it has been dried. I have never personally tried detonating HDN but i do know it is quite insensitive so a powerful detonator is the way to go.”
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/2106-dinitrate-hexamine-archive-file.html?highlight=Hexamethylenetetramine+dinitra te
*Originally posted by Sr. researcher Mongo Blongo(link below[actually , next page from link above]):
“Dude, I have never seen a method using H2SO4! I would have thought the H2SO4 would decompose the HDN? You should use HCL and add the Hex all at once (not slowly)!! You should filter as quick as you can (let it sit for 1 hour??)the HDN will start to dissolve. You should wash it with acetone if you want it to dry quick. If you put it in a flame then it will not do anything (It's not a primary explosive).
It should be detonated by HMTD if it is dry enough.
I hope this helps”
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/241-hexamethylenetramine-dinitrate-2.html?highlight=Hexamethylenetetramine+dinitrate
-------------------
-----------------
-------------------
Questions about all topics above:
* Hi, Sr. Researcher DBSP…
Can only HDN detonate with a certain press ? or any pressure is enough? What’s your personal method for pressing HDN and others explosives in a detonator or other device to a decent press???
Thanks …
*Hi, Rooster…
Apparently is better use any booster to complete detonation of HDN.. what the best booster used in improvised detonators you tried use to detonate HDN? TNP? RDX? PETN? Can also CMTNA be used in place of “regular” boosters??? and the better primary explosive? I think which HMTD sounds very good, but AP has much more lower cost of making.. whom the better?currently I trying the DDNP synthesis, but when try make the picramic acid,still no worked...:mad:
Thanks…
*Hi ,Sr. Researcher Mongo Blongo…
forms a “slurry” HDN with NG ? is HDN NG soluble? I remember see quickly another day other thread called “uncommon shaped charges” in the sciencemadness … appeared some mix and proportions,but I forget..only remember see something as “NG/HDN/ANNM” ..maybe I wrong… so is actually better mix the HDN with any explosive(NG, AP or other high sensitive) to facilitate and guarantee the detonation???
Thanks…
*Hi, again, Sr. Researcher Mongo Blongo…
In actually , is my shinny white crystals HDN? You says which “(…)I have never seen a method using H2SO4! I would have thought the H2SO4 would decompose the HDN?(…)” .. My method I used H2SO4 but was diluted when mixing with the others chemicals.. is enough this dilution for decompose all(or part) of HDN??? Can my yield be better than if I use ONLY hydrochloric acid >30%??? :confused: :confused: :confused:
Thanks again..
Again, everyone : really sorry by my poor English and any comment.. I will trying to improve..
Thanks everybody....