What to do with Graphite ?

[A-BOMB]

Well I was over at my semi-senile greatuncles today an was down in his basement looking for useable things, well I came apon a 1pound can of (325mesh) graphite powder. Well I've been racking my brain to find something to do with the graphite because I went throught all the trouble of digging through all his shit to get it, so any ideas on what to use it for? I was thinking a firework of some sort (that why its in this topic please move it if its in the wrong place) So any ideas? :confused:

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: A-BOMB ]</small>

[mr.evil]

It is often used in blackpowder, and in some rocket compositions: pyrotechnic mixtures that contain graphite are less sticky, and are much easyer removed from the rocket tool.

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: mr.evil ]</small>

[Guerilla]

Charcoal and graphite are different things.. Less pure homemade charcoal (from the soft woods) is more likely used in the pyrotechnics, it contains more hydrocarbons. Also the lower burning temperature gives you higher percentage of volatiles in it (makes it ignite better).

Pure graphite is probably the opposite of that and gives you hardly igniting and slowly burning black powder.

[IPN]

Well wouldn’t the "slowly burning black powder" be excellent for fuses, creating long delays. :)

And I’m not sure but if you could harden some of the graphite into sticks they could be used in electrolysis.

[zaibatsu]

I don't think Mr Evil meant that graphite is used as a replacement for charcoal in BP. Rather, I believe that it was used to coat the grains of BP.

[SATANIC]

Graphite powder is usually used for "dry" lubrication of metal parts, the only way I can see this being useful for the regulars here is for in sticky locks you are trying to pick.

Otherwise, see what difference it makes in blackpowder.

[zeocrash]

the US E-Bomb works by spraying out a cloud of fine graphite powder, which gets into electrical equipement and shorts it out etc.
you might be able to do something like that with it.

[mr.evil]

zaibatsu:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I don't think Mr Evil meant that graphite is used as a replacement for charcoal in BP. Rather, I believe that it was used to coat the grains of BP.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">That's right, i've read that heat is absorbed better if the grains are coated with graphite or something.

anyway, i have a kilogram left over now.. it's pretty much useless.

[pyro225]

An article in "Best of AFN III" by DA suggests using graphite mixed with lacquer, varnathane, or urethane as a treatment for the inside of cardboard mortars. "...several spoonfuls of graphite to a cup or so of lacquer, varathane, urethane, etc." This gets poured into the mortar and the mortar is shaken and inverted several times to coat the inside of the tube well. "I have done this coating processs with all my paper mortars; even the 6" tubes for shells. The graphite-lacquer coating is very fireproof and can extend the life of the tube by forty or more times!"

Firefox-fx lists it's uses as "conductive - propellant opacifier - refractory", so it's great as a, uhh, conductive refractory propellant opacifier (!?!)

I found this on the rec.pyrotechnics archive:
"Sporting "g" type powders are tumbled with a tiny amount of graphite to polish the grains. The base formula is the same. The graphite is not part of the basic Black Powder formula. The graphite does act as a burn rate modifier, slowing the burn rate slightly. But primarily, the graphite serves as a surface lubricant to make the powder flow more easily when loading guns. It also serves the cosmetic purpose of making the powder shiny and pretty."

I found a "tracer composition prime" (US Patent #2,899,291) on PFP that is composed of 78.4% Barium Peroxide, 18.4% Antimony Trisulfide, 2.2% Magnesium, and 1% Graphite. The only other reference to graphite I could find on the PFP was an obscure KCLO3/Mg flash with 5% Graphite added.

There are a few references here and there to graphite being used in chloride to chlorate electrolysis, but that's a bit over my head.

(EDIT) I have read that a light dusting of graphite on your metal rocket tooling will ease friction binds and reduce wear.

Hope this helps.

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: pyro225 ]</small>

[kingspaz]

graphite powder is used in EM weapons isn't it? there was a topic in the improvised weapons section.
think this is the one:
<a href="http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000274" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000274</a>

[inferno]

It is useless for good BP. Good BP uses low density charcoal with many fine pores for the sulfur and KNO3 to get stuck in. Graphite has neither of these aspects.

I believe the US used tiny (golf ball sized) bombs to destroy 90% of Iraqi electronics or something during the Gulf. I THINK they had a charge inside wrapped in some kind of superfine carbon fibre strands, the charge of which detonates as they hit the ground, and throws these tiny strands everywhere, making short circuits all over the place...

[nbk2000]

Actually, it was spools (like sewing thread comes on) of carbon thread that was dropped. It'd unwind in midair, leaving a long trail of carbon fiber to cause shorting.

[inferno]

Ah, thank you for the correction.

How would they short out anything undercover though? For instance, all you would need is some sheeting over the top of your electronics (as you would anyway) and they would just leave strands of fibre on the roof..?

[Dunkelmann]

do you remember those antstatic record brushes?
They were made out of millions of highly conductive carbon fibres.
I thought of distributing them with small rocket to high voltage plants, radar plants etc. to cause short circuits or radar jamming.
they are so thin that they float in the air if you cut them of.

I have heared that small conductive fibres can be used that way, the
german word is 'dubbel', i think.

dkm

[zeocrash]

i dont think they would be much good at hv plants, firstly everything is pretty well insulated to stop the electricity arcing. also because high voltage sparks, uncoated cables are kept apart to stop sparks, meaning that your brush would not be able to short it uot unless it has 10' bristles

[A-BOMB]

I just got a idea maybe it would work in a FAE or dust bomb? Or It might work as a liner for a LSC if mixed with epoxy or just compressed solid :confused: Or I wonder if I could use it to add some 'fluff' to some of my comps as to reduse the amount of comp needed?

[Sparky]

Glazing bp also helps make it water resistant apparently, because the water beads off.

As you know it is a good lubricant. One thing that comes to mind are ball mill bearings if you use bushings. I wonder if it is slippery enough to put on a ceramic floor to deny people walking on it. Or add to shot for better penetration (maybe put the round shrapnel in a ball mill with graphite to coat them). Lube up nails to make them easier to drive, experiment with lubed zip guns and spudguns (not shooting spuds though I suppose).

I have heard of rocket nozzles made of graphite but I am pretty sure they are solid turned graphite, not pressed. Maybe adding it to your bentonite would reduce erosion, or maybe if you use plaster of paris as a binder and cast nozzles. Possibly with grog or scored tube for grip.

Maybe you could use it in a conductive pyrogen in ematches.

like pyro225 said, use it instead of lampblack to opacify grains. In propellants like melted sugar rockets (which can be clearish) the opacifier is added to reduce IR radiation prematurely lighting areas of the grain.

If you could find a suitable binder you could compress (or ram?) short stubby rods to use in a chlorate cell.

[vulture]

Heh, you're not going to believe this, but one can make explosive graphite compounds. That's right, you heard it, explosive graphite compounds.

Graphite acid (some kind of graphiteoxide) explodes when heated.
It can be made by oxidizing graphite with KClO₃ in a HNO₃/H₂SO₄ mixture. I can't find anything about concentration though.

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: vulture ]</small>

[Guerilla]

Sounds interesting... :) Where did you read that from and could you show us the equations?

About the graphite anodes. Does anyone know the use of those 'gouging rods' that are sold in car repair shops(for the welding). Obviously they are used to 'gouge' something but what that means? Though maybe I should obtain a platinum anode, I'm working my ass off with those graphites and still got very slow reaction rate..

[vulture]

It's from a Roempp chemistry encyclopedia. Graphite compounds have no stoichiometric formula and reaction equations would thus be useless.

[simply RED]

As i have heared, not only americans but Iraqui troops used FAE's They bought these wepons from the former soviet (guess from which country).
It was typed in one newspaper that "when the explosive detonates, it beats out electrons from the graphite" The elctrons in the graphite are very moovable (it is conductive after all).
In some conditions it may be possible to beat out electrons from the graphite, but i don't think a chemical explosive could do it...

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: simply RED ]</small>

[Silentnite]

What about coating BP with it, or adding it into the mixture to make it slower burning so it lofts it better, maybe lights the fuze to the charge better...

[Jacks Complete]

Where to begin?

Working upwards:
SimplyRED the Iraqi's had no Fuel Air explosives, and nor did they use any. Bush would have creamed himself if they had, since they are easily scaled up to (mini-)nuke-like powers, and could be called WMD for the sheeple. About all I could find was this (http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19970129/123096_dim203_90_0001.html) from 1990, which is so reliable that they spelt "intelligence" - part of their name! - wrongly.
In fact:DIM 203-90

November 1990



Defense Intelliegence Memorandum



SUBJECT: The Iraqi Fuel-Air Expolsives (FAE) Threat"Wowee, I shure faked that 'un up well! Ai even thought to take ma name offa it!"

Vulture, I'm doubtful that you will get any oxide of graphite to blow up - think about it for a second. There must be more to it than that, and don't forget, it is just carbon.

Guerilla, "gouging rods" are used to melt holes in metal on your arc welder. You literally get the steel hot and you can gouge a hole. Graphite is used since it conducts the heat very quickly, and is more conductive than steel.

Everyone talking about the "Graphite bombs" in WWIII/Operation Oily Freedom:
Has anyone got a decent reference for this? The US claimed to have used them to cut the power, yet no-one has seen the carbon filaments, nor have they been able to get the power back on, even now, in some places. Once it was clear the power couldn't come back on, the US switched to saying the Iraqis had destroyed all the power stuff, and they had never used any kind of EMP or Carbon fibre bomb.

This is from a construction work report from just after the invasion. Even here, where they are working on the power systems, there are no reports of carbon fibre.
Discovery is still the order of the day in Baghdad's power restoration campaign. Power went out April 4. Some say the regime pulled the plug as a defensive measure. Others say the coalition dropped carbon fiber bomblets on substations, shorting out systems. Either way, turning out the lights proved much easier than turning them on. By April 22, Iraqi engineers had begun repowering one generator.

SFTT.org says that the Carbon fibre is spooled out the back of Apache helicopters? Unlikely, but possible. This could explain why there was no evidence, since Apaches were barely used due to fears they would get shot at/down after the first big attack with them lost a few.

So nothing that I could find. I didn't bother clicking on the 7th result, since I'm replying to it now!

[xyz]

Jack, graphite more conductive than steel? I don't think so... Why do you think the gouging rods need to be copper coated then eh?

They use graphite because it's conductive but doesn't leave any solid oxides behind or add anything to the metal. If steel was used it would be melting adding extra steel faster than you were gouging it away, just like a normal weld (albeit a very crappy one due to oxidation), which defeats the purpose.

Graphite doesn't melt like steel does, and as the surrouding air attacks it you get only gaseous oxidation products, which don't add to the metal being cut in any way. They also protect the metal from oxidation while it is hot and prevent the gouging rod itself from being further oxidised.

[cyclonite4]

kingspaz, the link is 404'd, but I'll search the forum anyway.

[kingspaz]

The link is 404'd because its 2 years old :rolleyes:

Heres an up to date link:
http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=727&highlight=graphite+bomb

[cyclonite4]

How silly of me. Thats the second time I've made a mistake by not looking at the date above the post. :p
I guess I'll have to be more observant of that in the future. Thanks for the updated link anyway.

[croc]

Back to one of the uses of graphite is adding it to powdered aluminum or magnesium. I herd charcoal is added to powered metals. That is what about 5% is in German dark aluminum so the flash powder doesn’t clump together.

[Sparky]

I came across this today in the Kirk-Othmer Encyclopedia. I was suprised to read that it may be possible to make an explosive out of graphite!

"
Graphite sulfate, long known and early investigated, forms when graphite is warmed in concentrated sulfuric acid containing a small quantity of an oxidizing agent, such as concentrated nitric acid. The graphite swells and becomes blue. The compound, approximately C24+(HSO4)

[Tectonic]

I don't know about explosives, or any fuse compounds of the sort, but if there's a door you want to get in that's locked via a code, you can blow on the dust if it's fine, and reveal the finger prints on the keypad and just push them until you find out their order. Other than that I'm not sure, does graphite react with anything common?

[Anira]

Graphite makes the wheels on your slot car racer spin faster.
It helps sticky locks. It also helps sticky car windows. Put it on the trim strip and it will get a bit better.
You could make pencils. Pencil lead is 40% graphite, 60% clay, mixed together and pressed into sticks. If you made the wood you might be able to press the mixture into the groove.
You could try making your own resistors, just for fun.

[tmp]

A warhead was adapted using carbon/graphite strands and placed on the
Tomahawk cruise missile. The warhead opens up and the long filaments float
down across powers causing a short. They were used in the 1st Gulf War to
cut the power to Iraq's, then, early warning radar grid.

[Tectonic]

I saw on an Episode of MythBusters, about a American Civil War Missle, which used a Graphite base because it was able to withstand the amazing tempatures. So, since it worked, I imagine it could be used for things of that sort that need a base capable of withstanding high tempatures, though I don't know what the maximum rated tempature was, I suppose it would depend on the grade of Graphite? If there is such a thing.