Australian Members

[Alexires]

I don't know if this is allowed, hence the water cooler.

You should all be able to see the msn contact thingy on my post. If all the Australian members could get in touch with me that would be great. I'd like to link up the Australian members if I can.

This would allow us to share info and ideas that may only really be suited to Australia and its oppression.....uh....legal system I mean.

I'm already in touch with a few of you, but the more the merrier.

Lets see where this goes...

[c.Tech]

I'm a rather trusting person, although I would be a little edgy having all these people having instant message access to my addy.

I've heard that IP's can be traced through MSN, it could just be a myth but just to be on the same side I thought I should ask others.

It would be a perfect place for a pig to go and make some busts if it was that easy.

and Alexires, I've added you. :) What times are you usually on, I can find some good information on Victorian law if its use to you from a site I got at school.

EDIT: Sorry I just realised your location is south Australia, I thought it said southern Australia.

[fiknet]

Here is something of use for encrypted MSN conversations

http://www.secway.fr/us/products/simplite_msn/home.php

It only works though if both people are running the software when they IM each other.

[nbk2000]

On general principle, RS discourages members from using any form of IM with other members, as that could be seen as 'conspiracy' or 'conspiring to commit (insert crime)'.

[Chris The Great]

Pigs don't bust people over IM convos. They wait and encourage them along to break as many laws as possible, THEN bust them and trot out all the evidence, including online communication in court. Obviously, if you discuss your plan to destroy the government they'll track you down and try and encourage you along before busting your ass and sending you to some unkown jail in some other country.

[FragmentedSanity]

We tried an OZ forum years back and it did the predictable thing and died out after a few months with no interest, but IMO a forum is still the best method for this kind of discussion.

Instant Message's are something I feel give too much access to your computer, and well honestly the subject matter discussed here dosent exactly inspire a lot of trust in the good intentions of my fellow man.

So while im all for the idea of aussies being able to chat about aussie stuff, ie has anyone in Australia actually found kno3 stump remover? I dont know that IM is the right medium for me.

Prehaps a blog, or if your after realtime chat i've seen java based chat servers before.

Theres always email, my addy is under my profile.
Or we could just keep using the watercooler for .au related stuff that dosen't fit elsewhere.

[Chris The Great]

I don't think that is what he had in mind at all. I think he has bigger plans than just finding stump remover, which someone can do quite easily on the forum. Course the only way to know for sure would be to talk to him.

In any case, getting to know and networking with others is always a good thing- if the forum has trouble, you're not cut off, IMing can allow a better discussion of some ideas, etc.

[FragmentedSanity]

Not sure I agree with you about the networking always being good, but your entitled to the opinion. My objection however isn't to the networking, it was to the chosen method, namely Instant Message - and MSN at that.

For the record, I have read a few of Alexires posts, so Im sure his plans are bigger than finding stump remover. It wasn't at all intended to belittle his idea - merely an example of something Id ask the current batch of Aussies, as I've been here a while and never found an answer to the subject of whether "stump remover" is available anywhere in Australia.

The point was to show that there were other ways to communicate with people, and that some people might be more receptive to methods other than IM.

Chris, it seems your a fan of the instant message concept, judging from all the icons you display. My time on the net spans back a ways - and I vividly remember a time when using IM was like inviting people into your system. These days I only use IM to keep in touch with people I already know and trust.

That being said Ive done the very thing being discussed in the past. Maybe now im just older and more paranoid.

[Chris The Great]

I don't see IMs as any more comprised than email. Both can be read and intercepted, both can reveal personal information if you are careless, etc etc. I use IMing a fair amount myself, as I see it more personal than emails. I have so many simply because some people prefer to use MSN, others ICQ etc.

But I don't limit myself, I use PMs, email, IMs, skype etc to communicate with people. Each has strong points and weak points.
IMO however any form of networking yields positive benefits that outweigh the risks if you are intelligent, use common sense, and the other obvious points of using the internet to communicate with others.

[nbk2000]

IM is a real-time, direct connection, of your computer to another computer.

Again, publicly posting information or discussing pretty much anything on a board is protected under the US Constitution.

Privately discussing certain matters can be, and has been, considered criminal conspiracy.

Discussing meth recipes (for instance) publicly is protected. Telling someone via IM how to do so is criminal conspiracy.

No one can stop you from doing what you want, and we wouldn't want to even try, but it's YOUR ass that's at risk, so do what you will even knowing the risks.l

[Bugger]

I'm in New Zealand, if you want to include us.

[lucas]

Do you want to become the next state of Australia? I wouldnt mind, but I bet not many kiwis want to join the bigger brother.

[c.Tech]

We can trade them for one of our shity states. And chuck good ol' Johnny H in with it. :D

[lucas]

I'll give you $2 for him, I'd prefer Clarke. And she'd got testes!

[Alexires]

Urgh, sorry I made this and buggered off for a few days, things were distracting me.

Thanks for adding me c.Tech. I'm normally on after 10pm most nights.

The rest of you, if you don't want to use MSN then send me an email?

This is my public key for PGP -

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=QIp/
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Send me an email if it makes you feel better and we can discuss options for talking privately.

Fragmented Sanity - I did have more in mind than KNO3 stump remover, but then again, I can help you with that as well.

Also, MSN isn't my "prefered method", I was simply offering my email address instead of posting it on the forum for all those wonderful junkmail spyders. I am most certainly open to any other IM program that people want to use.

I have had some luck with TrilogyEC which is ment to be an encrypted java run IM package.


NBK, while what you post on the internet may be protected under US constitution, we have no such protection.

*laugh* We (Australians) now live in a democracy where it is illegal to speak out against the government, because we may be instigating "terrorism".


Bugger - Why the hell not? I'd rather live in NZ than Aus anyway. This thread was for everyone in the Australian area (Tasmania and NZ included).


I'm willing to put my neck out to get in touch with the rest of the Australian members. I accept that it is the nature of what we do to be suspicious, but there is a point where out suspicion hurts us.

I know that a few of the american members are in contact with one another, so why not try the same here?

I leave it up to your good judgement. You shouldn't be scared to talk to me if you are intelligent and are willing to take some measures to protect yourself.

If/when you decide I am trustworthy, we may take it from there.

[wolfy9005]

your added Alexires.

[Alexires]

Thanks Wolfy9005.

I recommend that if people are going to contact me, they get that simp program. I don't know if it works or not, but its always nice to have SOME kind of security (even if it isn't PGP).

[fiknet]

Sorry for being silly, but I can't see your MSN address :o . If someone wants to add me it's little_dude00001 at hotmail.com

[c.Tech]

If anybody wants to add me my emails c.Tech_@hotmail.com or just click the msn icon on the right.

[Alexires]

Thanks to everyone that has added me, or supplied their email address here.

Sorry I haven't been online for a month or so, I have been having net issues. Combined with work, I won't be around as much as I used to be, but still, I'll keep up with everything happening around here.

Anyone else going to contact me?

[Alexires]

I know there has been a lot of controversy in the paper/news lately regarding this"Access Card" possibly be miss-read as "Identity Card".

I am of course talking about the proposed Federal Access Card, which will replace a lot of health and social benefit cards. While I could see both sides of the argument, I, too, was wary that it might turn into an identity card.

Low and behold -

This I quote from the Advertiser (South Australian News Paper) -

"Access Card
Police could use photos
A PHOTO database of almost every Australian could be accessed by police to help identify suspects, a parliamentary inquiry has heard.
The inquity into the implementation of the proposed $1.1 billion Access Card, to be used to access medical and welfare systems, could have a spin-off use - for identifying criminals.
The Senate inquiry heard the Federal Police would want to copy names and photos from the Access Card in the course of investigating possible criminal activity."


While the news did it's cursory "protecting the people by being a watchdog" bullshit and talking about the "Access Card" being a possible "Identity Card", it was portrayed in a favourable light and is once again portrayed in a favorable light by the newspaper.

Note in the above extract, it says that the Federal Police would want to "copy names and photos" (for facial recognition I don't doubt) "in the course of investigating POSSIBLE criminal activity". So in otherwords, it doesn't matter if you are actually convicted for anything, the AFP will have a "finger in every pie" as it could be said.

Basically, if you are on Medicare or Centrelink, you will have one of these cards.

Which part of the population would have the highest rate of criminal activity? The people that have these cards. NBK, as you have said, the only way to control the population is to make them all criminals and this is just another footstep along that path. A way to catch all the criminals made.

I don't think there is a thread currently regarding identity cards, but since this is an Australian issue, no point in making a new thread.

Damn, can't include attachments.

[c.Tech]

Giving governments powers only lets them expand it, first its a "Access Card" then turns to a "Identity Card" then we need to carry it at all times or be arrested, finally they install RFID chips and monitor our every movement, also having our face they have security cameras placed everywhere and if your RFID doesn’t show up with your face showing that you’re in that area security could be thrown in to check.

In a post 9/11 situation the governments will get their way. Especially when they are pushing for global control.

[Bugger]

That is very dangerous! Without exception, such "identity cards" have been abused by government agencies in EVERY country in which they have been introduced,for the purpose of control and surveillance of the populaton for party political purposes! Crime busting be damned!

[stephenb25]

Hi I'm also in Australia. I think that identity card is a very bad idea. I can just see them abusing it already.

[Alexires]

Just an Update on the identity card.

"Details on card held forever

The Federal Government has admitted transaction record for the $1.1 billion welfares smart card will be kept indefinitely, prompting new concerns about tracking and surveillance abuse.

The Human Services department has told the Democrats records would be retained for "audit and security" purposes.

A Senate committee will today table its report into the card, which the Government wants used by 17 million Australians by 2010. The card is designed to replace the Medicare card and up to 16 others that allows access to such benefits as Centrelink and veterans' payments.

A photograph of the holder will appear on the card and be stored on its electronic chip (sic - RFID) and on a central databank. The Government has played down concerns it would become a national ID card or usher in a "big brother" era surveillance. It argues the card is needed to save $3 billion in welfare fraud over 10 years.

"For the first time, it seems, the Department of Human Services will not give a guarantee that there will be no analysis of the log files created as a result of the transaction with Medicare, Veterans' Affairs and other participating agencies," Democrats spokeswoman Natasha Stott Despoja said.

"The mandatory retention of the log files potentially gives law enforcement agencies and the department access to a vast wealth of communications data without a judicial warrant.

"This will be a valuable tool in determining your physical data. That is, were you at a crime scene or were you at your appointment?" Senator Stott Despoja will move an amendment to ensure the deletion of the log files.

A spokesman for Human Services Minister Senator Chris Ellison said: "The audit logs will help to protect access card user privacy by recording who accesses the register and ensuring it is only done for appropriate purposes."

"The Bill contains penalties for people who inappropriately access information contained in the access card system."

Law enforcement agencies can compel the department to provide information as part of a search warrant or under privacy regulations."

Note that the only real mention of abuse is in the last sentence, and doesn't really talk about it. Just says that Law enforcement agencies can compel the department. Bunch of morons.

Also, in addition to this I have -

"Smartcard plans 'on schedule'

The Federal Government says its proposed health and welfare Smartcard will be rolled out on schedule despite an inquiry raising major concens about it.

Human Services minister Chris Ellison said yesterday the government would combine all elements of its proposal into one piece of (sic - shit) legislation which he hoped to introduce into Parliament as early as June.

In a report released on Thursday, a government-dominated Senate committee recommended legislation be rewritten to include privacy provisions which the government had planned to introduce as a second tranche of legislation on the card. The government wants the single card to replace the Medicare and other benefits cards."

Sneaky that, calling it by another name so that it is difficult to link the two together. The only really links there is the possible abuse of power, Chris Ellison and the last sentence that talks about it replacing Medicare.


I doubt that they are going to can this access card. Both the government and the opposition support it.

Along with this article, things are rather scary.

"Access card 'fraud risk'

The proposed national access card risks becoming a national identity card by stealth and must be sent back to the drawing board, a damning report by a cross-party senate committee has claimed.

Liberal MPs on the committee raised concerns about the Government's proposal include a photograph and digital signature on the card, saying that could lead to counterfeiting.

A photograph on the card could provide an "extra layer of legitimacy to false identities" (sic - not to mention facial recog.).

"The inclusion of a biometric photograph on the surface of the card increases the likelihood of the access card becoming a de facto national ID card," the committee report says.

A digitized signature on the card should be a matter of choice, it says. There should be no centralized database holding all of a person's information.

"The committee does not consider that the inclusion of a digitized signature on the surface of the card is necessary to achieve the Bill's two key objectives," the report says. The proposed card could replace Medicare card and be COMPULSORY for any Australian who wants to access up to 16 other government health and welfare services.

Liberal committee members felt a "general unease" about the adequacy of the Human Services Bill. "The committee is being asked to approve the implementation of the access card on a blind faith without full knowledge of the details or implications of the program," members said.

"This is inimical (harmful) to good law-making."

The card is designed to replace Medicare card and up to 16 other health and social cards.

The committee called for a second tranche of legislation to address protections, appeals and review mechanisms. It was critical of the limited time given to the committee to examine the Bill.

New Human Services Minister Senator Chris Ellison last night said he would accept the recommendation to bring together a second tranche of legislation with the Bill. He was confident the committee's concerns could be addressed.

"The Government remains committed to having the legislation passed THIS YEAR" he said. Committee member Democrats Senator Natasha Stott Despoja said the report was "damning" and showed "this legislation, the card and the database are fundamentally flawed."

Labor human services spokeswoman Tanya Plibersek said the access card was so bad that Government MPs had "swallowed their fears and spoken out".

Labor committee members agreed with the substance of the majority committee report and also the recommendation to delay the Bill."

Discussion?

[Tackleberry]

:)That is very dangerous! Without exception, such "identity cards" have been abused by government agencies in EVERY country in which they have been introduced,for the purpose of control and surveillance of the populaton for party political purposes! Crime busting be damned!

C,mon boys and girls...Lets be realistic....If you have a drivers licence, firearms licence, passport and in some schools, TAFE,s Uni's ID card etc, etc you are already carrying a photo ID. Hell! I bet your all on a camera somewhere in the world, Let alone OZ or NZ. Lets talk shop, not politics....:D.