quick, how can I get a hold of some cesium :D

[Sausagemit]

I did not realize that Cs and Rb are this reactive with water!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9bTYM_W_-g&mode=related&search=

[c.Tech]

K, Na, Cs and Rb are reactive with water because they occur under the same group in the periodic table, therefore they have similar properties e.g. low melting points, oxide easily, reactive with water.

Gives me an idea for an improvised grenade. Using a large amount of Rb and water, have a piercing instrument to break a water balloon and bang.

At the same time mixing H2O2 and MnO2 with an outside ignition source would have interesting effects.

Specially designed glass vial which can dissolve in water with an argon atmosphere? Never heard of that.

They said that they wouldn’t let them have francium.

But web elements states "Francium is found in uranium minerals, and can be made artificially by bombarding thorium with protons. It is the most unstable of the first 101 elements. The longest lived isotope, 223Fr, a daughter of 227Ac, has a half-life of 22 minutes."

So even if it could be made, by the time it was transported to the site it probably would have changed into a different element.

[Jacks Complete]

From memory (I've not done chemicals buying in years) Lithium in cold water and Calcium in hot water are about the same reactivity. Lots of bubbles, no flames.

Sodium is reactive with even air moisture in the cold. Get it molten first for big bangs, by adding a tiny drop of water. The heat liberated will get rid of the protective oil, and cause it to melt! It also floats on water due to the gases generating thrust/uplift. Sink it (fast) with your air rifle for fireworks, or wrap it carefully in something heavy like wire, then throw it in the lake. I found twigs to be cheap and strong enough to push into the sodium blocks, rather than messing around.

Lithium is (was) ten times more expensive than Sodium, and 5 more than Calcium. Potassium is (was) ten times more than Sodium, and Rubidium was the same price for 1/10th of the amount (yes, 100 times more by mass, even less by volume.) I never could source any Caesium, but I guess another factor of ten would get you there. Francium is one of the most expensive elements in the world to produce. It would also be insanely reactive. And with a halflife of at most 22 minutes, you'd better only need a tiny amount.

Up-to-date prices:
10g Li : £30
100g Na : £19 (high grade under oil)
1Kg Na : £12 (lower grade foil wrapped)
10g K : £10
1g Rb : £13
1g Cs : £52

It has been estimated that there might be from 340 to 550 grams of francium in the earth's crust at any one time, making it the second rarest element in the crust, next to astatine. If you get a few grams, throw them swiftly into the nearest deep water and *film it*!

[borax]

I was under the impression that francium had a really really short half-life, the amount in the crust is probably constantly being refreshed.

[Sausagemit]

Gives me an idea for an improvised grenade. Using a large amount of Rb and water, have a piercing instrument to break a water balloon and bang.

I've often thought of ways to make an improvised and somewhat dangerous explosive out of Na, water, and kerosene. The idea behind it would be to fill a jug part of the way with water and part of the way with kerosene. Seeing as how kerosene is lighter than water it will float. Then you suspend the sodium in the kerosene either by a stick or string (a string being stuck in the threads of the cap would be preferable making it much harder to disarm). Tip it on it's side and BOOM!!

I don't know if the sodium will produce enough flaming debris to ignite the kerosene but that would be sweet if it did. If it did than a little bit of water with a lot of kerosene would be preferable.

[Hirudinea]

I've always thought that sodium would be a good anti-tamper device for a bomb, simply wrap a plastic bag of sodium around the bomb (small bomb of course) and when they use a water disrupture on it, well it would be an interesting suprise.

[lucas]

Glass is made from silica and soda is added to lower the melting point, but makes it soluble in water, so lime is used to make it insoluble. So soluble glass is made from silica and soda.

[nbk2000]

You wouldn't be referring to 'Water Glass', now would you? That's also known as Sodium Silicate.

And how the fuck does this relate to Cesium or such?

[lucas]

It's what those samples of cesium and rubidium in the video were contained in.

c.Tech said "Specially designed glass vial which can dissolve in water with an argon atmosphere? Never heard of that."

So I replied about the glass.

[nbk2000]

Why not encase it in PolyVinyl Alcohol? PVA is inert to most non-polar chemicals, can be formed under heat and pressure into very robust forms, and would dissolve in water. :)

[a_bab]

That film and the Brainiac show in general is "spiced up". All, but all the explosions are fake; they add loads of gasoline to make the hollywood-like fireballs.

As about this small clip, there is no such thing like "our special designed glass that disolves in water". Cs and Rb are packed in glass vials, and they can't explode like an "underwater mine" or whatever they stated; not in less then a gram quantities they used anyway.

Have a look at the bath tubs: they have wires so that means charges etc.
I'm wondering if they don't do that to intoxicate the people, like nbk2000 saw once in a book about bombs making, where they asked to "dump a mix of potassium chlorate, sulphur and steel balls into a pipebomb, screw the cap and shake it to mix the contents"

Think before you believe. You may know enough to understand what's crap.

[c.Tech]

Have a look at the bath tubs: they have wires so that means charges etc.

Thanks for pointing that out, I wouldn’t have picked that up in a million years.

I thought they would have been smart enough to not show the wires by filming from a different angle.

Three more things.
1. If it was so dangerous that one guy had to run into the caravan wearing the face shield looking through a hole in the window, why was the other guy wearing no safety equipment from nearly the same distance away.

2. If it was so dangerous that one guy had to run into the caravan wearing the face shield looking through a hole in the window, If anything did happen the window might have killed him. Think of shattered glass falling around your neck.

3. Even if it could explode like that there was no flames present. The reaction of the elements with water causes them to form a hydroxide and hydrogen gas, the hydrogen gas would then ignite to cause a explosion, an example (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/011.2/index.html) from the thread ‘sodium party’ started by a_bab, thanks :).

E.g. with potassium. 2K + 2H2O -> 2KOH + H2

And when were there any flames present from the burning of hydrogen?

[lucas]

I have actually seen sodium, which normally fizzes on water with flame, explode after being dropped into water. Live, not on film. It was definately sodium causing an explosion.

[c.Tech]

I have also seen sodium and potassium live on film, worth to watch. Probably be even more fun to be chucking chunks in water.

It was definately sodium causing an explosion.
What was? the link I provided from another thread of the Cs and Rb?

[Lewis]

I think it's best not to think too hard about shows like Myth Busters and Brainiac. They're anything but scientific, and really just lame showbiz types making fireballs on TV.

[nbk2000]

The wires might not have been to explosive charges, but a mechanical device to break the vial open.

I may be giving them too much benefit of the doubt here...

[Sausagemit]

I think it's best not to think too hard about shows like Myth Busters and Brainiac. They're anything but scientific, and really just lame showbiz types making fireballs on TV.


I wouldn't exactly call this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1b4k4nbMQ) lame if I were you. ;)

They used many many bags of ANFO for that explosion.

[Jacks Complete]

Read my post above. Sodium metal can easily be made to explode, with nothing more than water.

[Sausagemit]

Here is a real Cs water reaction. Keep in mind that this is 5 times as much Cs as what was supposedly dropped into the tub on the brainiac clip.

http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/AlkaliBangs/055_Cs_underwater.html

I'm gonna go ahead and call shenanigans on myself for posting such a grosely misinterpeted video. :D

[Lewis]

I wouldn't exactly call this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1b4k4nbMQ) lame if I were you. ;)

They used many many bags of ANFO for that explosion.

That's exactly my point. If I wanted to see significant quantities of HE detonated in a field, I'd just watch videoes of F-18s bombing the middle east. Myth busters is supposed to give real, useable information, but all they've really proven in that episode was that explosives will destroy a truck.

[shannon dove]

If the water/sodium reaction is not violent enuogh for you, then try dropping a peice of sodium metal in hydrochloric acid but not concentrated acid as it may need some water (I'm not sure about that).

The reaction to form sodium chloride should release a lot more heat than the reaction to form sodium hydroxide ,to enhance it even more use hot hydrochloric acid/water.

Also do not use any more acid water than neccesary because extra water/acid just pulls in a lot of heat and cools the reaction down.

Do not use five gallons of acid/water for a peice of sodium the size of a penny.

[Jacks Complete]

If you want a full on explosion from your 1cm cube of sodium, I'll repeat myself, just this once.

Add a small drop of water to your sodium block. It will melt. Stand well back and throw a bucket of water onto it. Bang!

[a_bab]

nbk, with all due respect but having wires for a "crushing system" and stating the use of a "a special designed glass that dissolves in water" and then running like hell after dropping the vial and the unbelievable explosion that follows just doesn't fit. I didn't buy that from the moment I saw the movie; and I must confess I did play alot with Na and K.

Here is the real story: http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/AlkaliBangs/

[nbk2000]

I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it was obviously misgiven.

Thank god for TV, huh?

[sanguine raptor]

Crew members confirm that the experiments failed:

Absolutely bloody nothing. The density of caesium ensured it hit the bottom of the bath like a lead weight. The volume of water then drowned out the thermal shock. They could not go home empty-handed. So they rigged a bomb in the bottom of the bath.

http://www.badscience.net/?p=270

[shannon dove]

While we are on the subject of alkali metals I should mention in the book "the chemistry of powder and explosives" by Teny Davis, he talks about explosions from an alloy of pottasium and sodium contacting a halogenated hydrocarbon such as tetrachloroethylene or something like that.
USE
He says it explodes with flash that is visible in direct sunlight. What about grinding the sodium into a course powder?
PARAGRAPHS!
And I know that grinding up sodium is not easy, it would have to be protected from air as a powder would spoil very quickly from humidity and carbon dioxide and oxygen in the air, but if someone did have sodium powder, how much better would that work?
NBK

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

http://www.badscience.net/?p=270

[shannon dove]

What about using sodium metal powder in these mixtures:

sodium mixed with iron chloride
sodium mixed with copper chloride
sodium mixed with lead chloride

The sodium should reduce these metal chlorides just like aluminum will reduce iron oxide in thermite.These mixtures should generate a lot of heat like thermite does.

The advantage of using sodium instead of aluminum is that the sodium has a much lower melting point and lower boiling point, so this should make the sodium react much faster, the same way a hydrocarbon with a low flash point will react with air much faster than a hydrocarbon with a high flash point.

These sodium mixtures should burn extremely fast in the open, and they should explode with a sharp report when confined, much like good flash powder.

These mixtures probably do not generate as much heat as aluminum/pottasium chlorate flash powder, but they should still explode very good.

Does anybody think these mixtures would work?

Yes, I know these mixtures are probably dangerous, much like pottasium chlorate/sulfur mixtures.

[FUTI]

You could also try sodium and CCl4. Every couple years by government regulations they send "new" guys from firedepartment to "teach" US (?!) a fire protection etc. We always piss ourself when they say the famous sentence "for fire you need three things combustible material, energy source and oxygen" - when we aren't bored to death we enjoy to kick their ass with silly billy questions :D. But we should continue the science molestation rant against Braniac continue.

[shannon dove]

I did some calculating about the heat given off by iron chloride/sodium mixtures, and I am very dissapointed that the calories per gram is less than that of iron oxide/aluminum thermite, and it is way less than pottasium chlorate/aluminum flash powder.

Here are some measurments of heat given off by different mixtures:

iron oxide/aluminum 0.95 kilocalories per gram.
copper oxide/aluminum 0.98 kcal. per gram.
iron chloride/sodium 0.86 kcal. per gram.
potassium chlorate/aluminum 2.33 kcal. per gram (extremily high!!)

These calculations are assuming that the reaction goes as planned,for example, in the flash powder , all the KClO3 is converted to KCl and all the Al is converted to Al2O3.

[good1]

Talking of Cesium (Used in atomic clocks) and other radioisotopes, read the book of this posts title, it's a fantastic book and worth the time.

It has some simple ideas for obtaining radioactive elements from everyday items.

[drunkenpanda]

I think it's best not to think too hard about shows like Myth Busters and Brainiac. They're anything but scientific, and really just lame showbiz types making fireballs on TV.

While it appears to have been staged, it was quite entertaining to see a bath tub blown in half. Besides, don't they claim the show to be "science abuse?" These shows are meant primarily for entertainment, and need to be viewed as such. As nbk said: Thank God for good TV.

[xenon24]

If you really want a large explosion, try using a large block of sodium. You can cut it into smaller cubes and release it as one large charge, or simply use the intact block. Because sodium hangs around for just the right amount of time before it generates enough heat to ignite the hydrogen gas that it produces when it reacts with water, it makes the best explosions. Potassium is a bit faster and tends to make explosions that violently pop, whereas sodium makes one large bang. I haven't tried caesium (too expensive) but rubidium is actually pathetic compared to sodium...it just reacts too fast.

Besides...sodium is relatively cheap to purchase/make.

[Meawoppl]

There are LOTS of water soluble glass compositions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_silicate
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j88577037888771x/

All are high temp melt processed. (aka not practical for most of us)

Much better is sodium tetraborate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate

You can process that as low (snickers) as 800-900 C. A bit beyond the typical home capability.

You would have a hard time encasing a low m.p. solid metal in something that hot. Also notably "soluble" is a rather relative term. It takes days to soak off of Pt crucibles we use in a glass coloring lab.

Lastly, it would be far more practicable to use water soluble polymers or something like wax paper with a small hole:
Small leak -> some heat ->melts wax ->more heat

In terms of chemical potential for destruction, it is probably on the order of dry ice bombs. Nothing impressive.

[sirthomasthegreat]

Here is a real Cs water reaction. Keep in mind that this is 5 times as much Cs as what was supposedly dropped into the tub on the brainiac clip.

http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/AlkaliBangs/055_Cs_underwater.html

I'm gonna go ahead and call shenanigans on myself for posting such a grosely misinterpeted video. :D

You realize that was sodium not Cs right? The title says sodium, and second of all I have done a 0.5g Cs explosion and it shattered the earlenmyer flask. It has to be in a glass vial to start because it oxidizes so fast, it looks really cool when it oxidizes too because it looks like it is melting really fast.

[Cindor]

Has anyone tried Sodium and Hydrogen Peroxide ?

It will release Oxygen when the H2O2 decompose, generating more gases per mol, and Oxygen will make Hydrogen burn faster (no need to use O2 from air)