Burning EGDN

[eltrik]

I made some EGDN yesterday and found something strange. My product burn quite weakly!

I took this a little and burned from match. It burned after a moment. Burning was quite slowly like kerosene to lamp. The fire was blue.

So I’m considering how it will be blow if burning is bad. Well, that’s possible I received something other then EGDN but I made if exactly with recipe. I don’t know what’s going on. I should add I used nitric mixture with nitric acid 65%. Maybe this is reason.

Have you ever tried burning a little EGDN? How does it look like from yours point of view? What is the color of burning EGDN in your experience? How long does it take?

Any cements, advise welcome.

[nbk2000]

Because of weak nitration, you might have the mono-nitrate, instead of the di-nitrate.

Also, make sure that your product was properly dried so it's anhydrous. Absorbed water will inhibit it as well.

[HOHOLO]

It is EGDN.

Mono-nitrate can disslove in water and being washed away, so don't worry if your prouct is not disslove in water. That is already EGDN.

Unlike NG, pure EGDN burn as blue fire and a little bit like C2H5OH. It is because its small amount of Carbon.

One reason of firing slowly is because it is not dry enough. little amount of water may not be see by eyes,but they can effect the burning rate. So, try to dry your prouct completely.

Beside those, I remind you that EGDN is as powerful as NG Why don't you try to blow up something with same amount of EGDN & NG ,so that you can compare the power of them and let see if that is EGDN.

Morever, try to find out the density of your product, it is also a usful data to test the real product.

[eltrik]

After a few days some water evaporated and burning rate is better. Fire is blue and burning as you said, so I’m glad I’ve got EGDN. :D

Actually I didn’t dry it. :eek: . That was the reason. It wasn’t mentioned in my recipe. I found on this forum that I can dry it via filtration over anhydrous Sodium sulphate or Calcium nitrate. (Myrol said). I will do it.

I think :rolleyes: I would also put it into a closed jar with deliquescences mentioned above for few hours. Is that good idea?

I’ve observed else that just after synthesis and washing the color of EGDN is cloudy, not transparent. After two, three days product is clear and transparent like water. Maybe this is related with content of water. What do you think? Have you got the same?

I can’t compare this product with NG because I haven’t made it yet. I’m a beginner.

But checking density is a really good idea. I didn’t think about that simply way. I measured it. I found density of clear EGDN is 1.48g/cm3. If my balance is good, density of my product without special drying is 1.5?g/cm3. Is such a small difference possible?

++++++++

Don't use the comma , mark for indicating decimal points.

It is 1.48

NOT

1,48

NBK

[Chris The Great]

The method you mention, putting the EGDN in a jar with the drying agents, is what I have used successfully before with nitroglcyerin and methyl nitrate using magnesium sulfate, with excellent results.

[HOHOLO]

Close jar with drying agents is the best way in chemical synthesis to remove water in product. They also used to store those prouct as well as I store gun power in it.

It always take several hours of even days to finish the dehydation,but time is worth by using it because it is the most safe way.I use CaCl2 as drying agent.It is cheap(at least in my city) and relativtly non-toxic.

Yeah, those ester is cloudy because it contain many water.No matter NG or EGDN also be that way.

If you are beginner, just forget NG, it is too danger.(In fact I made NG as my begining in my explosive research..but I do not suggest people do this)

Checking density is the most usful way to check substance in Lab. 1.5X g/ml is OK...It is because it may contain some salt(come from the washing process) or still some water(very very small amount)in it. Also, tempreture can effect the density.

[Marck]

Maight your product contains some acidic remainders of polluted sulfuric acid. Have you tried using a little bit more of H2SO4 ? The weak process you mentioned should work with 24 mL sulfuric acid 75 % instead of 22 mL.

By the way, I don`t know the EGDN is sensitive enough that this should explode by flame.

[eltrik]

I think now I have enough amount of EGDN to make some nice exploition. I’m drying it now in a jar with magnesium sulfate.

I used nitration mixture with 160ml H2SO4 95% and 100ml HNO3 65%.

That’s interesting that temperature can effect the density. But in room’s temperature changes aren’t very high I think.

For detonation I will use HMTD N(CH2OOCH2)3N. In my opinion it is one of the best material to initiate the exploition. It is easy to receive. In fact after certain time it can decompose. Rate of decomposing depends on how pure it is. We can prevent that by keeping it in closed container with acetone. In my experience it is very good method and it stands relatively long time. We should only remember that HMTD can’t be contacted with metals because it can blow up. By the way what other materials do you use for initiating?

[Bert]

By the way what other materials do you use for initiating?

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/other-explosives/3158-my-favourite-primary-explosive.html?highlight=favorite+primary
Start reading here, then do your own searches for additional information- Organic peroxide primaries are not used in military or industrial operations. Are you certain that ease of production is a good enough reason for YOU to use them?

[nietsnie1945]

How much EGDN did you get from this reaction (160ml 98% SA and 100ml 65% NA)? I used the same nitration mixture (40ml H2SO4 98%, 25ml HNO3 65%, 9ml glycol) and I got about 7ml product (after drying).

I think that it is too small amount of EGDN. Do you know any other nitration mixtures, which give better yield?

[Cindor]

Maybe it was the way you dried it. How do you did it ?
EDGN have a low BP and maybe you evaporate some of it in the procedure.

[nietsnie1945]

I was drying EGDN in the locked container over 98% sulfric acid. I don't think, that EGDN had evaporated, because it was too little EGDN before drying (about 10ml/13g).

[eltrik]

How much EGDN did you get from this reaction (160ml 98% SA and 100ml 65% NA)?

I received nearly 50ml without drying. (I used 40ml of glycol). I didn’t check volume after drying.

I think you should get about 13.3 ml, so your yield isn’t bad. Certain part of product is also wasted during separating EGDN from remaining acids.

The most important thing to get good yield is stirring all time during nitration. Use just more ingredients.

Bigger yield would be possible with using 99% HNO3, but I’m not sure distillation is profitable in this reaction.

I detonated about 200ml EGDN and that was fantastic. Power of the bang surprised me because that was first time I detonated such charge. It was really strong. Even big speakers wouldn’t express it well. Sound had high intensity but it was short. That’s because EGDN has high velocity of detonation. I placed it about 25cm under the surface. There appeared quite big crater. My friend was shooting it but result isn’t good due to darkness.

[Olib]

Just a friendly suggestion, use proper grammar.

My English isn´t perfect but there is a spell checker on this site.

[nietsnie1945]

One more question - is it possible to dry EGDN by adding some anhydrous CuSO4?

[MartinT]

I have a question: why does the EGDN not explode by heating only, while NG does? I've read many times EGDN can explode by rapid heating at about 200°C but my tests said that's not true... I've heated it very strongly under severe confinement condition, nothing...only a very slow burning...Someone can help me?