Suppressed revolver

[5_seven]

Ok, I know what you're thinking, a silenced revolver? You're out of your f'king mind, that's impossible. The gas escapes from the gap between the cylinder and the frame. Even if you could, what's the point?

Ok, gotcha. The first issue is the gap between the frame and the cylinder. I've worked that out. Two parts, made of either a strong plastic, or a decent metal (such as brass), on both sides of the frame that go over the entire gap, covering the cylinder area, using rubber gaskets to create a seal. Accompanied with a common supressor, it should work. To keep the parts on, I figured on making the two parts screw together at the four corners, which would make it cumbersome and make reloading time even longer, so not totally efficient.

Now, Why would someone do this? Here's three reasons:
1) Revolvers cost considerably less than semi-auto pistols.
2) Semi-autos chuck spent brass, leaving precious evidence that can send your ass to prison, revolvers only eject the spent casings when you unload.
3) My Smith & Wesson has never jammed on me, or given me any guff because I dropped her, or got some dirt or grit on her. Can't say the same for a semi-auto.

Any feedback, either positive or negative is much appreciated. Thanks

[BeerWolf]

I think that if you seal the gap tight enough to reasonably suppress it, your revolver will no longer be reliable. It is the loose fitting of the parts that requires the cylinder gap and forcing cone, to compensate for the slight mistiming of the cylnders.

If you tightly seal the gap, the cylinder my also be too hard to turn, increasing the trigger pull to unacceptable levels.

If you are worried about leaving brass around, never touch the brass ungloved, and use a disposable pistol. No firearm has a value great enough to go to prison for. Use it, then destroy it completely.

[Gammaray]

Use a russian nagant revoler, when you pull the trigger, than turn the well left or right and it move a little bit vorwart, so it can not gas escape between the ballel and the weel , look at this link
http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolm1895/ammunition.asp
here ist a text about the nagant , in german

Der Mechanismus des Nagant-Revolvers hat eine Besonderheit, die ihn von fast allen Revolvern unterscheidet. Beim Abfeuern der Waffe wird der Spalt zwischen Trommel und Laufansatz geschlossen, er ist gasdicht. Revolver haben üblicherweise einen Trommelspalt von 0,1 bis 0,2 Millimeter, durch den ein kleiner Teil der Explosionsgase entweicht. Beim Nagant bewirkt das Betätigen des Abzugs nicht nur das Weiterdrehen der Trommel zur nächsten Kammer, sondern drückt die Trommel an den Ansatz des Laufes, bevor der Schuss bricht. An sich stellte dies jedoch eine Lösung für ein Problem dar, welches nicht bestand. Der Energieverlust durch den Trommelspalt ist zu gering, um solchen technischen Aufwand zu rechtfertigen. Das Abdichten während des Abfeuerns führte dazu, das sich der Abzugswiderstand erhöhte.

[mrtnira]

Gammaray is correct.

I actually saw a Russian video showing the Nagant. It was done in Moscow, by members of an association of former members of special police divisions (NKVD and then MVD). The cylinder does move forward and seal with the barrel as the trigger is pulled and the hammer cycles to strike the primer.

The model that was demonstrated did not require a secondary action by the shooter, such as manually tightening the cylinder forward. It was all one mechanical action initiated by pulling the trigger.

[5_seven]

I think that if you seal the gap tight enough to reasonably suppress it, your revolver will no longer be reliable. It is the loose fitting of the parts that requires the cylinder gap and forcing cone, to compensate for the slight mistiming of the cylnders.

If you tightly seal the gap, the cylinder my also be too hard to turn, increasing the trigger pull to unacceptable levels.

If you are worried about leaving brass around, never touch the brass ungloved, and use a disposable pistol. No firearm has a value great enough to go to prison for. Use it, then destroy it completely.

I guess I should have been more descriptive. It doesn't seal the gap between the cylinder and the barrel, it wraps around the frame, with gaskets covering the open area around the cylinder to trap the gases. This picture (http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/kamel357/?action=view&current=revolver.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1) illustrates the area the gaskets seal off.

I've heard of the Nagant revolver, but I can't find one in any of the shops around here, and I don't like doing business over the internet, especially when it concerns firearms. Plus, from what I've read, it's too nice a revolver to do a dirty deed, because you probably will have to toss it

[Panzerfaust29a]

It is always worth considering alternative ammo, for existing firearms you can always buy an adapter so your revolver can fire .22 ammo (or purchase a .22 revolver) and use quiet .22 ammo. Alternatively you can come up with something like a cat's sneeze round.

There are a couple of benefits to using quieter .22 ammo in revolver vs silencer:
-less legal hoops (or less risk of jail)
-smaller/easier to carry (particularly if .22 revolver)
-could possibly be carried legally in the USA

[5_seven]

I had .22 in mind for this project. I built a silencer for my old .22 rifle way back, there was a little 'pop' nothing that would draw attention.

You can legally carry just about any handgun as long as you have a concealed carry license here in the states.

[Panzerfaust29a]

You can legally carry just about any handgun as long as you have a concealed carry license here in the states.

Absolutely but if you have a legal silencer you can't use it for hunting in many states and I suspect it would be added legal liability to conceal carry a silencer (not to mention having to conceal the silencer in addition to the gun).

I suppose it would be good to seal the gap between the barrel and the cylinder and merely press firmly against whatever you were shooting. ;)

[5_seven]

Point taken. This is highly illegal, but I never really worry about that. I'm lucky enough to live out in the middle of nowhere where people mind there own business and nobody saw nothin'.

[Docca]

I had .22 in mind for this project. I built a silencer for my old .22 rifle way back, there was a little 'pop' nothing that would draw attention.

I'm going to second the "quiet .22 ammo" suggestion.

Try "Standard Velocity" ammo. It comes really close to "a little pop", and it's still probably as suitable for whatever you're up to as any other .22 load.

Bonus - Unlike "I built a silencer", it's not a "Federal Felony".

5 years, no parole...


P.S. If you have several thousand dollars to spend on a good lawyer and you don't have much of a prior history you might get off with probation - it begs the question, what could you possibly hope to accomplish with a homebrew silenced .22 revolver that you couldn't accomplish by other means? (perhaps something that doesn't risk bringing the feds down on you)

[oxbeast]

Back in the early 80's, Dan Wesson were working on a system call "Power Seal" which was specifically designed to limit gas escaping. A search may turn up more info on the system. Original literature hinted that it would be useable with a suppressor.

There was also an interesting post WW2 design for a suppressor which fitted a standard S&W Victory model.
Aside from forming a standard suppressor on the end of the barrel, it actually fitted over the barrel and cylinder effectivly sealing the gap where the gas escapes. The useage of the unit did has some side effects, the drag on the cylinder would eventually cause the weapon to "go out of time" and the cylinder wouldn't line up properly anymore.

[5_seven]

...what could you possibly hope to accomplish with a homebrew silenced .22 revolver that you couldn't accomplish by other means? (perhaps something that doesn't risk bringing the feds down on you)

And? I'm doing it because I can. If I were worried about police and feds, I wouldn't be posting on this site, and I wouldn't be posting my ideas and potential experiments.

++++++++++

Don't quote whole posts. NBK

[Gunjack]

If the gap between the barrel and cylinder is to small you will have problems with lead build-up if you are using lead bullets .
After a certain number of shots you won't be able to turn the cylinder.
That's why all gun makers stick to a minimum of clearance.
And that is also why the Russians used an extra back and forth movement, so they didn't have to worry about the build-up.

[Gammaray]

For more than 10 jears ago, in germany there was a gunsmith , who take a S&W revolver in 45acp ,6 inch barrel, he fix a supressor on it, but he fix on the right and the left side from the weel, a removable cover , so the gas can not make a noise when it escape between barrel and weel.
In nord germany build a guy a 22 lr revolver with supressor, it fires only double action, and the weel and the barrel and the mechanics was covert , the gun looks like a toygun for children in the 1950 jears.To load it, it break open like a doublebarrel shotgun. It was small and easy to carry for hit and run tactics

[Hirudinea]

Just in case the Nagant has peeked your interest and your worried about ammo you can use .32 S&W Long as safely in it.

[BeerWolf]

I had .22 in mind for this project.

It's hard to go wrong supressing a Ruger standard .22 autopistol.
Extremely reliable, quiet, and you can hold the bolt shut with your thumb.
This prevents shell ejection, and makes it even quieter.

Thet're commonly available in the US for less than $100.
A friend bought one at the local swapmeet 3 months back for $55.
Ugly and pitted outside from poor storage, but good shooter.

[Docca]

A. you can hold the bolt shut with your thumb.
This prevents shell ejection, and makes it even quieter.

B. The[y]'re commonly available in the US for less than $100.

A. That's a really good idea, it had never occurred to me. For those who might not be following along, well made silenced autoloaders of significant calibers have bolt stops which hold the bolt closed so you don't have any gas vented except through the silencer (this also prevents shell ejection / feeding, the pistol must be manually cycled).

B. In my personal experience, they (the Rugers) are rarely seen for less than $200, but I haven't run across many rough ones.



A. Semi-autos chuck spent brass, leaving precious evidence that can send your ass to prison.

B. You can legally carry just about any handgun as long as you have a concealed carry license here in the states.

C. And? I'm doing it because I can.

A. True, but a lot more people have bought themselves a lot more trouble on the basis of the possession of contraband discovered during routine traffic stops than have been caught because of the .22 brass they left behind as "precious evidence".

B. True, until you get caught with a "home brew" silencer.

C. You had stated earlier that you appreciated feedback, positive or negative. Here is my feedback; I think it's a k3wlish project, I have no doubt that you can do it. I believe that it is foolish to dick around with a felony offense for the purpose of unleashing an amazing 100ft lbs energy (even if quieter than average). I strongly suspect that you could accomplish the same (or better) effect with a pillow wrapped around the top (and sides) of the revolver (and that is not a felony).

[5_seven]

...I think it's a k3wlish project...

1) I have no intention of driving around with this device, and it's easily removed from the weapon

2)same as ^

3) Putting a pillow over the front and sides of the weapon is more "k3wlish", more cumbersome, and more impractical. I'm well aware of the bolt stop feature, but that limits you to one shot, then you have to pull the slide back to re-cycle. You don't need to do that for a double action revolver, just pull the trigger again. I think it's foolish to limit myself, and my experiments because they are illegal. I'm going to build it regardless, end of story.

Also, a .22 is not quiet, unless you're comparing it to other rounds. It can easily be heard from a mile away on a quiet night. The pop I talked about was considerably softer, in the range of a small fire cracker, and that's with only six baffles in a 3/8 inch diameter, 8 3/4 inch tube

[5_seven]

Just in case the Nagant has peeked your interest and your worried about ammo you can use .32 S&W Long as safely in it.
I know of the Nagant, and I've also addressed this earlier

[Docca]

1)Putting a pillow over the front and sides of the weapon

Do whatever you please, but you might want to brush up on "reading comprehension".

No one said anything about putting a pillow over the front of the weapon.

[5_seven]

Then what do you make of this:
I strongly suspect that you could accomplish the same (or better) effect with a pillow wrapped around the top (and sides) of the revolver (and that is not a felony).

Perhaps try to add something usefull instead of a bunch of shouldn'ts and couldn'ts, just my own feedback to you.

[Charlie Workman]

I've got a Nagant. Love the strange little critter. While you can use .32 S&W in it, but the cylinder won't seal, so it kind of defeats the purpose. Regular ammo is hard to find and expensive when you do. Limits my range time quite a bit. During WW2 the other Mr. Churchill designed what he called a "Gauntlet silencer". It was made from several layers of inner tube rubber in the form of a sleeve which is closed on one end. Slide the revolver in and hold the "Gauntlet" closed around the wrist with your free hand. You fire through the closed end. It was supposedly pretty quiet and disposable. I've done something similar with the arm from an old suede jacket. Worked pretty well with small calibers. That would be cheaper and easier to try than the fancy modifications, even if they prove effective. You can try it a couple of times and "deep six" it. That is the best thing to do with items like this. If you have such a cool toy, you will probably not be able to resist showing it to someone. Someone you might consider trustworthy. That's the problem with cool toys. And if they ever find themselves in a jam with the law, can you think of a better way to get off than telling the cops about someone who has a deadly illegal weapon? I was watching a cop show the other night and they had a guy busted for criminal trespass who ratted out his own brother and cousin on a murder beef! To avoid prosecution for trespass! TRUST NO ONE!
Rest secure in the knowledge that you know how to build it should the need arise. No toy is worth 10 years in Club Fed. At least none that I've seen so far.

"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas!"
-Gidget

[Docca]

Then what do you make of this:

Hmmm, it appears that your "reading comprehension" skills are worse than I had originally feared.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback.

Ignore = On

[5_seven]

hmmmm, it appears you still don't have anything usefull to say

[5_seven]

During WW2 the other Mr. Churchill designed what he called a "Gauntlet silencer".
That sounds like a fun little toy, but Google turns up nothing, got any pics, or at least a diagram/drawing? I'll have to look into this.

[s4r1n]

Hi guys. Here in the UK, silencers are legal. You can buy a metal silencer for your .22 air rifle over the counter for 20 GBP. If you read the instructions, they specify "silencer for .22 rifle/air rifle" This was confirmed by local gunsmith. I don't know about the availablility of .22 air rifle silencers in other countries but it may be a source to be exploited. Hope this helps.

[Charlie Workman]

The first volume of "How to Kill", page 30, has one. I dug out my old copy and it doesn't have a caption on the picture. I had written it in ink. Does anyone know if this was ever corrected? Mine is a tattered first edition I got in 73. John Minnery was the best.

"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas!"
-Gidget

[neo-crossbow]

Any feedback, either positive or negative is much appreciated. Thanks

Toss the whole idea, build a case catcher and line it for sound suppression also. Also if your single shot silence idea is serious build a single shot lock out to keep the breech closed during firing, it will help tremendously

[Docca]

Toss the whole idea

Yes, that thought was proposed, but he ignored it (and apparently he didn't comprehend English very well).

Speaking of ignoring advice, are you not aware that necromancy is an offense punishable by death here?

You might want to reference http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/water-cooler/5150-beast-has-fed-upon.html

Read all of it.

[NunyaDamnBusiness]

Igor Stechkin developed a type of completely silent ammunition (http://world.guns.ru/ammo/sp-e.htm) by using a piston to seal in propellant gases completely eliminating muzzle blast. One of the guns he designed for this ammunition was the OTs-38 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg194-e.htm), a five shot revolver

[teshilo]

Effective silence of Nagan in his construction. In time of shoot cylinder move forward on barrel and gases dont escape....

[Asriel]

Yeah, I was going to say this, but it looks like someone beat me to it, the best bet is just to get a surplus nagant revolver, good reliability and able to be silence, and probably cheap just like everything else from russian surplus. But as it's cartridge isn't all that common I'd suggest a caliber conversion kit or a reboring to something more common like .32 ACP

[Kaydon]

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/3e/180px-7.62NagantCartridge.JPG

7.62 Nagant, .32 S&W Long and a .22 LR

Fiocchi manufactures the 7.62 Nagant in FMJ, I think? I also read somewhere, Guns & Ammo maybe that Wolf might manufacture the round or does, I could've seen it on the 'net, I don't remember. Supposebly this round leaves the chambers clean and no need to scrape the gunk out, that could be a good advantage. I imagine it's true, since it's all brass.

I don't know much about the Nagant revolver, but if it's anything like the Mosin-Nagant it's a great firearm.

[Shadowmartyr]

Now, Why would someone do this? Here's three reasons:
1) Revolvers cost considerably less than semi-auto pistols.
2) Semi-autos chuck spent brass, leaving precious evidence that can send your ass to prison, revolvers only eject the spent casings when you unload.
3) My Smith & Wesson has never jammed on me, or given me any guff because I dropped her, or got some dirt or grit on her. Can't say the same for a semi-auto.

Any feedback, either positive or negative is much appreciated. Thanks

1.Actually, it's not really that practical to have a suppressor on a revolver. I mean, how are you going to weld a piece of metal where the cylinder is? Most of your noise is coming out of that gap. And welding a big cover over that would look clunky and generally bad unless you were a very skilled metalworker/welder.

2. And your second reason is also false, it doesn't matter if they can find the casing or not if they retrieve the bullet from the victim it can most definatley be identified of what caliber it was, and obviously once they found that out theres only a set number of calibers for a revolver and well, you get the idea.

3. Generally revolvers don't jam per say since they aren't gas operated, the hammer moves the cylinder over and it's a very simple mechanism which should not fail. The only kind of "jam" I could see wouldn't really be a jam at all and thats when the round fails to discharge the bullet because of a faulty cap, ect.

And 4. Actually you can get semi-autos fairly cheap if you know where to look. Of course the small caliber revolvers will go for less it's just not worth the price. I suggest if you really want a gun you can enjoy and know will do you well you do some research. I'd take a small semi-auto 9mm over a .44 any day. Why? Because 1 its cheaper, 2 it can be concealed easier, and 3 it has a faster rate of fire.

[Charlie Workman]

Igor Stechkin developed a type of completely silent ammunition (http://world.guns.ru/ammo/sp-e.htm) by using a piston to seal in propellant gases completely eliminating muzzle blast. One of the guns he designed for this ammunition was the OTs-38 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg194-e.htm), a five shot revolver

Ah, old Igor! The most underrated weapon designer in the Soviet Union! He did so much work along this line (captive piston weapons) as well as the AK-100. The man was a flat out genius.

[a3990918]

Yeah, I was going to say this, but it looks like someone beat me to it, the best bet is just to get a surplus nagant revolver, good reliability and able to be silence, and probably cheap just like everything else from russian surplus. But as it's cartridge isn't all that common I'd suggest a caliber conversion kit or a reboring to something more common like .32 ACP

Fiocchi manufactures the 7.62 Nagant in FMJ, I think? I also read somewhere, Guns & Ammo maybe that Wolf might manufacture the round or does, I could've seen it on the 'net, I don't remember. Supposebly this round leaves the chambers clean and no need to scrape the gunk out, that could be a good advantage. I imagine it's true, since it's all brass.

Aimsurplus ( http://www.aimsurplus.com/ ) currently has the revolvers for $79.95 in excellent condition,:eek: including accessories. The shells are $23.95 per 50rd box or $22.95 per for 10+ boxes. :)

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I wasn't even going to bring this up because I was sure someone else was at some point...... but there is a "fold" for a towel (yes, like Origami) that was very common in the 1980's and was first demonstrated in various military units. It will effectively suppress most weapons for a few rounds (until the towel rips up). Basically, it's the flag fold but has a deeper start to it.

I have, indeed seen a demonstration of this myself and can attest to it's functionality. It worked well with a .22 that was no great feat. But it did work with a .40 and a revolver and that I thought was impressive. This is really no different that holding a pillow over a weapon IMO. The "fold" was a big deal back in the 80's because it WAS supposed to be a "secret". but in reality as soon as the gun-show crowd got it.....everyone knew about it.

[ccw8076]

There's a couple of things that I'd like to add. First, in the twenties and thirties, during prohibition several prominent gang members were murdered with silenced revolvers. In that time period, there was no technology dealing with the sealing of the cylinder gap, so how did they work? And second, if you were to actually use a silenced revolver, the cops would be at your door a hell of a lot faster than if you just used a regular gun and then tossed it off a bridge.

The strayations along the bullet are different if fired through a silenced weapon, and of a certain pattern if from a revolver. I have seen examples of both in my lab. From those details any good ballistics researcher would tell the cops to look for a silenced revolver of a certain caliber. Now how many of those do you think exist? Thats right, not many. I once dreamt of a way to make ballistics negligible; all you have to do is go to an antiques shop and buy your self a flintlock pistol, or you can go to any gun show or western festival. In my dream, if you used such a weapon, since the make of the gun was created before ballistics came into being, the bullet would not only be unrecognizable, but also untraceable.

P.S. it's downright simple to make a silencer for an antique with no moving parts than for a modern weapon.

But just for the record, I disapprove of this project in it's entirety, not only on principle, but in it's unnecessity.

[a3990918]

There's a couple of things that I'd like to add. First, in the twenties and thirties, during prohibition several prominent gang members were murdered with silenced revolvers. In that time period, there was no technology dealing with the sealing of the cylinder gap, so how did they work? And second, if you were to actually use a silenced revolver, the cops would be at your door a hell of a lot faster than if you just used a regular gun and then tossed it off a bridge.

The strayations along the bullet are different if fired through a silenced weapon, and of a certain pattern if from a revolver. I have seen examples of both in my lab. From those details any good ballistics researcher would tell the cops to look for a silenced revolver of a certain caliber. Now how many of those do you think exist? Thats right, not many. I once dreamt of a way to make ballistics negligible; all you have to do is go to an antiques shop and buy your self a flintlock pistol, or you can go to any gun show or western festival. In my dream, if you used such a weapon, since the make of the gun was created before ballistics came into being, the bullet would not only be unrecognizable, but also untraceable.

P.S. it's downright simple to make a silencer for an antique with no moving parts than for a modern weapon.




But just for the record, I disapprove of this project in it's entirety, not only on principle, but in it's unnecessity.

Well, as already discussed in this thread, the Nagant was available during that time period, so the technology was available.

Why would using a silenced revolver bring the cops to your door faster than using a silenced auto or single-shot?

Regular Gun? The revolver was around long before the autos. And why would you not also dispose of a revolver?

I believe the word is spelled striation.

Most every revolver out there could be fitted with a silencer, it may not be as efficient as an auto or single-shot, but it would still be considered a silenced firearm.

I'm going to forego any discussion on the antiques other than a Flintlock is going to have pan flash, noise, tons of BP smoke, useless in the rain , expensive, unreliable etc.

As to the ballistics the bore can be drilled out either pre or post use(Thus destrying any ballistics) a barrel liner installed, a replacement barrel installed etc.

Another item, most silencer plans I have seen for a revolver are of a slip on nature, requiring little or no modification to the gun. Most autos require either modifying the barrels muzzle and/or replacing with a threaded muzzle barrel. An automatic with a threaded barrel would automatically(no pun intended) draw a cops attention :(if he were looking for a silenced weapon. The revolver would show no evidence of having ever been silenced

P.S. The only antique firearm I can think of with no moving parts is a hand cannon.

If you disapprove of topics such as this then why are you posting here? It's my understanding that the forum is for the discussion of expolsives & weapons and related subjects, wether of a legal or of a "Dark" nature (Totally hypothetically of course):)


I wasn't even going to bring this up because I was sure someone else was at some point...... but there is a "fold" for a towel (yes, like Origami) that was very common in the 1980's and was first demonstrated in various military units. It will effectively suppress most weapons for a few rounds (until the towel rips up). Basically, it's the flag fold but has a deeper start to it.

I have, indeed seen a demonstration of this myself and can attest to it's functionality. It worked well with a .22 that was no great feat. But it did work with a .40 and a revolver and that I thought was impressive. This is really no different that holding a pillow over a weapon IMO. The "fold" was a big deal back in the 80's because it WAS supposed to be a "secret". but in reality as soon as the gun-show crowd got it.....everyone knew about it.

Do you happen to have any reference material as to this? When used with the revolver did you fold it different or just shove the pistol further up into the fold to silence the escaping gas?

[Yafmot]

I think maybe a few of you guys need to study up a bit on the theory of this stuff. One of the main reasons for the use of supressors on autos almost exclusively is that these rounds operate at much lower working pressures. Standard 9x19 mm and .38 spl. rounds work about the same, but a .38spl. +P will easily tack on another 50%, or about 10,000 psi (10KSI), where +P 9mm loads only add about 4KSI.

There are a lot of intertwining factors at work here, though. For one, the supressor must have an internal volume at least equal to the volume of the muzzle blast, regardless of whether the weapon is an auto or a revolver. Otherwise, it will make a sound rmarkably like the hiss from a revolver's cylinder gap. Another factor is the velocity of the projectile. If it is transsonic or faster, it'll be dragging along a shock wave with it. Ever shoot a .22LR rifle outdoors and notice the sound of a ripping sheet of linen echoing off everything? That's the "sonic crack" of the bullet. Theres next to no muzzle blast with a .22 rimfire (except for a magnum).

As for the Nagant, it's not a particularly oustanding weapon, performance wise, but even that will give you some problems with supressor attatchment. True, it's a plain round barrel, making it easier to thread, but you have to cut the threads with a lathe to get them big & deep enough to effectively retain the "can." Fine threads will easily strip and let the supressor go flying off. That's why you see such coarse threads on a MAC-10, H&K SOCOM etc.

There used to be a little doodad you could buy in the back pages of Shotgun News, Soldier of Fortune et al, which would attatch a 2 liter soda bottle to a 1911 Colt & clones which worked pretty damned well, for about 10 rounds. The trick was to cut off half of the hemispherical bottom and stretch a piece of inner tube over the hole, making sure that the rubber sheet was big enough to hold it onto the bottle with a hose clamp. The thing was very effective, due to the internal volume, and it was light enough to let the mechanism cycle completely. There was also an "X" shaped hole in the middle of the rubber sheet, to act as a wipe and also to keep the precursor blast and other gases from getting out ahead of the bullet.

If you must do something nasty with a "silencer," my advice is to shoot the biggest fucking bullet you can throw subsonically, and that means 230gr, 45ACP. Almost anything else has to be downloaded to subsonic velocities and, since it'll doubtless be smaller, this means it'll packing less KE.

And since most people on this forum (and I include myself) are a bunch of goddamned cheapskates, might I suggest that you hit some garage sales, flea markets etc and pick up a cheap, bolt action .22 for 30 or 40 bucks, and get yourself a box of CB caps. They're marginally louder than a squirrel fart, and hit with much more authority than a .22 pellet gun. In fact, Aguila. a Mexican company with all kinds of trick ammo, makes several varieties of CBs, including one, called the Sniper Sub-Sonic (SSS), that delivers 120 ft.lbs. of KE at 100 yards! A solid hit with one of these in the Mastoid Process, (that's the heavy bone behind the ear) will usually spall the bone, sending chips & splinters into the Auditory Cortex, the Visual Cortex, the Medulla Oblongata and the Carotid Artery. This means your oh-so-deserving target will be deaf, blind & paralyzed before they even hit the ground, and Brain Dead about 15 seconds later.

Accuracy? I once put an entire 100 round box of CCI Maxi CBs (CB loads in long rifle cases) through the same beer can at 50 yards through iron sights with a 10-22. I had to operate the action by hand, though, since they lacked the power to completely cycle it.

And if you ever get a chance to attend the American Defense Industrial Association (ADIA) small arms conference, DO IT! On the last day, they load everyone onto buses and take them to a military range where they have all kinds of cool demos. One year, in addition to beating up an old BMP with a MK19, I got to fire a 10mm H&K MP-5 with an integral supressor. This was at Camp Bulliss, north of San Antonio. There were plywood silouhettes lined up both across and deep. After a brief checkout from the H&K rep, I let rip on one of the targets. Big grins. Then I switched to semi, and made a nice smiley face on the head, a' la Mel Gibson. I Wrapped things up by switching back to full auto, and then cutting the head off. More grins & giggles.

I asked the rep why a 10? He said it was bigger than a nine. I said yeah, but the 10 was designed as a real hotrod, so they must've had to download these rounds considerably. Why not just go with the .45 ACP? When you're velocity-limited, the KE lives over on the MASS side of the equation. He said it had primarily to do with fear of recoil, but I don't see how it'll make much difference in a submachine gun. It's all acedemic, anyway; they'll make one in whatever auto pistol caliber you want.

A real basic "silencer" you can make begins with an Aluminum tube about 6" long and 1 1/2" in diameter. Then you'll need some freeze plugs that'll just slide into the tube. Drill 3/8" holes in the center of all the freeze plugs. Fabricate an adapter that will slide tightly onto your barrel (this is for a .22 with a round BBL). Drill holes (at least 3) radially into the adapter and tap for set screws (Helicoils would be a good option here). Drop in as many baffles (plugs) as will fit in the tube while still leaving enough room for A) sliding almost down to the set screws while keeping the baffles from rattling loose and, B) still having about 1/8" of tubing extending beyond the plugs. You want the radiused ends of the plugs facing toward the gun. Now take a ball peen hammer and bend a "lip" down at the business end around the edge of the last baffle. Then TIG weld the adapter to the tube (an alignment tool can be made by grinding about 2" of a 10" piece of 3/8" aliminum stock and sliding it through the whole mess until the narrow end goes down the bore), fasten the completed unit onto the barrel with the set screws, and you're ready to do smoething sneaky.

This is the standard design used by ATF informants to manufacture a "crime" for which they can collect a "reward" upon your arrest. And yeah, it works. And you can knock off a couple more Dbs by filling it with water to the bottom of the baffle holes. This helps dampen the shock of the muzzle blast. It was also Hiram Maxim's first supressor design, and while it's not dogshit, It's not exactly optimum, either. But it works and it's cheap.

For some really good reasons WHY YOU SHOULD NOT DO THIS, see my second post in the "Lightning Link" thread in the Assault Weapons section.