Mailing ammunition to the UK

[HVD]

Hypothetically, do you think it would be possible to mail back a small amount of (50 rds - 1 box) of handgun ammunition from the US to the UK, just for shits and giggles? I know they use sniffer dogs to search mail for drugs, but would they actually Xray every package looking for firearms components / ammunition etc?

Thoughts or experiences please.

[nbk2000]

It might be possible, but it could be possible that all letters and packages are passed through a magnetometer to check for metal, with any positives getting fluoroscoped.

Another factor would be the caliber of ammuniton.

.22LR is a whole different problem from .50BMG.

[Hirudinea]

I don't know about the U.K. but I do know that lots of things get through Canada Customs, I remember once of an AK-47 being mailed here from the states, so since customs can't check everything its worth a shot. (Pun, funny.)

[nbk2000]

What are the penalties if you get caught receiving illegal ammunition? Worth it?

[tomu]

This story realy happend!

It was in September 1993. SWIM bought a two revolvers in at a gun shop in Alaska, the bought a big car batteries charger , a little spanner and a small black towel.

Then SWIM opened the metal cover of the charger box, at first SWIM thought SWIM had to remove the big transfomer but SWIM need not to do this, it was enough room around the transformer to but the two guns inside the metal box and cover them with the small black towel.

After that done SWIM closed the cover and but the screws back on. Because the screws were painted black and the use of the spanner left some marks on the screws SWIM used a black marker pen to touch the screws up were the original black paint was scratched away from the use of the spanner.

At this point swim went to a paper shop and bought a sturdy cardboard box for oversea shipping. SWIM packed the car batterie charger with the guns inside very well into the cardboard box and SWIM made sure the packaging wil withstand the seashipping. SWIM filled in the customs declaration, SWIM wrote batterie charger commercial sample worth 25 $.

SWIM went then to a mailshop to ship the box via seaship to a european country, SWIM made sure it was shipped by sea and not by airmail. This is important. About six weaks later the recipient got the box delivered without any problems at all. Even if customs had open the box they would have seen the batteries charger and without any lead or suspicion they wouldn't have checked any further.

[HVD]

It would hypothetically be .22 or 9mm, so nothing too big and fancy.

The trouble with mailing actual weapons back is that you have to purchase them 1st (assuming you purchase them legally from a gun store, and not on the black market). This involves handing over personal information etc. I don't know how it works, but I don't think you can just go into a gun shop and buy a handgun without showing ID and waiting for a "cool off" period etc.

On another note, does anyone know if you can purchase ammunition without having a firearms license in the US (i appreciate this may vary from state to state) ?

[BeerWolf]

On another note, does anyone know if you can purchase ammunition without having a firearms license in the US (i appreciate this may vary from state to state) ?

In most of the US, you can walk in to a hardware or sporting goods store, and pay cash, with no information taken. Even many department stores like Wal-Mart just want to see proof of age if you're young looking. They don't write it down.

Some parts of California take down your ID, and Illinois requires you to show a firearms license to purchase.

[HoS]

In most states there is nothing stoping any free man (And never convicted of a felony) from buying a gun if he is over 18 (21 in some states for handguns). No such thing has a firearms license, atleast in most states. In order to carry a concealed weapon (in most states) one must pass a corse and pay a small fee to have a CCW license issued.

[Storm on the Horizon]

Plenty of firearms trade hands privately too. This is perfectly legal in most states. A quick browse of the classifieds section of the local paper and/or nickle ads is a great source of privately owned (no paper work) guns.

[nbk2000]

Problem is that a lot of papers no longer carry ads for private owner sales of guns. :(

Also, I've heard of stings being set up by ATF or local piggies, to catch people buying guns this way, who would otherwise not be permitted to own them. :mad:

[NGfan]

Well, I don't know about America but in the UK some guys were caught mailing movie handguns adapted for use with live ammunition. They were making a fortune selling these guns, but after several pickups got lazy and decided to mail them. This actually worked fine until the Royal Mail sent the guns to the wrong adress and the recipient was asked to sign for a crate of handguns and ammunition. For some reason he notified the police rather than selling them on...

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Ok, time to clear up some things here.

In most states there is nothing stoping any free man (And never convicted of a felony) from buying a gun if he is over 18Correct. It's your constitutional right, but there are some localities that get around it by requiring paperwork that's impossible to get, or banning certain types of firearms, such as limiting you to only shotguns or something. Example: California banned .50BMG weapons, and to get around the ban the .510 DTC cartridge was introduced (although the projectile itself is the same as the .50BMG, the case dimentions are different). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.50_BMG#Legal_controversy

(21 in some states for handguns)In any state you must be 21 or older to purchase from an FFL licensed dealer, because it's federal law. That doesn't stop you from going to ar15.com and doing a private transfer inbetween two individuals(which is legal unless they're an FFL dealer). . No such thing has a firearms license, atleast in most states.You're wrong, there's the mandated FFL(with few exceptions). What's an FFL? A federal firearms license. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License In order to carry a concealed weapon (in most states) one must pass a corse and pay a small fee to have a CCW license issued.All 50 states require a CCW of some kind, and some states(Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, and Wisconsin) do not issue. You cannot get a CCW if you are under 21 in most states. Check http://www.packing.org/ out for more info.

Problem is that a lot of papers no longer carry ads for private owner sales of guns.There's plenty of places for private transfers, ar15.com being a huge community (full of idiots). Here in Arizona, there's the arizonashooting.com forums. They're out there, just look for them.



As for mailing of firearms, see http://www.packing.org/state/documents/all_united_states_php17lkrv_co24_usps_regs.doc


edit: Oh shit, forgot. There's a way around the paperwork of shipping firearms, field strip them and send the components seperated. For example, with an ar15 package the barrel with the lower reciever and ship that in one package, then send the upper reciever in another package. For a pistol, send the slide and barrel in one package and the frame in another package. Simple.

[Docca]

Ok, time to clear up some things here.

I've flamed a number of members (and former members, ;) ) for giving out technically incorrect information about firearms related issues. That is not the case here - ShadowMyGeekSpace's info is pretty much on the mark.

That said, a correction or two...

Regarding the .510DTC, anything over .500 (aside from shotguns) is regarded as a "destructive device" in the U.S. Being that the .510 uses .500 projectiles you're probably ok, but you're treading on dangerous (we'd better keep an eye on this guy) territory. Don't get me wrong, the legislation is outrageous - the fact is that this sort of thing is prone to draw federal attention.


All 50 states do not require a CCW of some sort - see Vermont.


Again (to restate BeerWolf) in most states you pay your money and you buy your ammo (assuming you're 21). ShadowMyGeekSpace appears to have mistaken an "ammo" answer for a "firearm" answer (no biggie). In many states private firearms sales are barely regulated (but there's plenty of legislative room to get into trouble).


Regarding the original question of mailing ammo to the UK, it can probably be done. The U.S. connection could probably accomplish his or her end with very little risk. The UK end is looking at a whole lot of trouble and a lot higher likelyhood of getting tagged.

P.S. I've got to ask, what could one possibly hope to accomplish with 50 rounds of ammo that would be worth the risk? Sure, Lee Harvey Oswald only needed 3 rounds (conspiracy theories aside), but he had a rifle and (USMC) experience... Delivering accurate fire on target generally requires practice - regardless of what Hollywood would have you to believe.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Regarding the .510DTC, anything over .500 (aside from shotguns) is regarded as a "destructive device" in the U.S. Being that the .510 uses .500 projectiles you're probably ok, but you're treading on dangerous (we'd better keep an eye on this guy) territoryThe cartridge dimentions are different, not the bullet itself. That is to say that the .510 DTC puts the same piece of metal in the bad guy, the casing just has different dimentions. It's legal. And technically the .50BMG is actually slightly bigger than .50, it's swaged down to size as it passes through the barrel.

Sure, Lee Harvey Oswald only needed 3 rounds (conspiracy theories aside), but he had a rifle and (USMC) experienceBeing in the military doesn't mean you're a great shot, it means you're atleast half assed. I've outshot alot of former service men at ranges, and I've even outshot men who were still enlisted.
Delivering accurate fire on target generally requires practice - regardless of what Hollywood would have you to believe.Yeah, especially with the bolt action rifle he used :P


My previous mix up (confusing an ammo answer for a firearm answer, sorry) has been editted out of the post. Sorry.

PS: I wasn't attempting a flame with the opening comment on my previous post, I'm sorry if it came off that way.

[nbk2000]

A destructive device, as define in law, in regards to firearms, is a fixed round projectile of .60 caliber or larger. If you think a .50 is a 'destructive device', it's because you've been exposed to anti-gun propaganda, knowingly or not.

From the Wikipedia:

Despite speculation that Oswald was a below average marksman, Oswald earned the Sharpshooter weapons qualification badge with a score of 212 out of 250 targets, average or slightly above average for a Marine, and far above average judged by civilian standards.

And who knows what kind of training he may have had from the Soviets during his time in russia.

[Frunk]

Thoughts or experiences please.

I got a know friend that mails drug samples (less than an ounce) overseas or over the border all the time mostly for giggles (he's a member of a roguesci type cannabis-centric forum), so you can be sure they don't use sniffer dogs and they don't check most packages.

He never got caught.

First, ship priority mail and they often won't have the time to fool around and open your packages. Don't EVER write a return adress and if they do find the ammo and the police comes ringing, just say that you never saw this package before and you don't know who would try to send you ammo. You can't possibly be prosecuted because a guy you don't know sent you something illegal :p

These tips only apply when an item is shipped to/from Canada over the US or France border using Canada Post. I wouldn't try UPS or the other high-end parcel services.

Feel free to post experimental results of your own tests :D

[Docca]

A destructive device, as define in law, in regards to firearms, is a fixed round projectile of .60 caliber or larger. If you think a .50 is a 'destructive device', it's because you've been exposed to anti-gun propaganda, knowingly or not.

Probably, unfortunately in this case the anti-gun propaganda is codified.

Title 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53 Subchapter B Part 1 Paragraph 5845:

(f) Destructive device. The term 'destructive device' means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes;


I suspect you're thinking of muzzle loaders (like .58 caliber). They fall under a variety of exemptions, assuming the feds aren't looking for a reason to nail you (in which case all bets are off and jurisprudence may be ignored).:rolleyes:

And no, I would not relish the thought of having to pay someone to convince a U.S. Attorney (and a Federal Judge) that .510 is really just .500. They'd have been far smarter to name that chambering .499 DTC (but of course they were busy skirting European regulations when they named it).

[nbk2000]

More than half an inch leaves out the .50BMG, and black powder arms do not used fixed ammuntion, so that's exempted to, by definition.

Everything I've seen defines anything .60 or larger as a DD. When was the federal code passed?

[defiant]

NBK: While I usually agree with you, Docca's legal citation and interpretation of the law is 100% correct: .50 cal. is less than "greater than a half inch". Anything over is illegal for a private citizen to own. Docca earned a rep point.

With regards to shipping live ammo, an alternative is to ship empty shells/cartridges. Its legal to collect militaria in Britain, isn't it? Dies, bullet molds, and other essential reloading equipment could be shipped at a later date (to the same individual, or perhaps item by item to their friend/s).

According to my understanding of British/US law, owning or shipping firearm parts is not illegal. The receiver is the regulated item, and is legally considered the "firearm". Other than the receiver, firearm parts are legal to own. In the US, that includes full auto parts (but don't store the full auto parts with a semi auto receiver or it could be used as evidence against you of your intent to manufacture a full auto. Full auto receivers are also illegal if you aren't licensed, even without the assorted parts that make the receiver a functional full auto.).

Incredibly, receivers can be made with less fuss than firearm shells/cartridges, particularly in the US, where a receivers that is 80% or less finished is not legally defined as or regulated as a receiver.

[Docca]

When was the federal code passed?

Apologies, a variety of Google searches on your question did not give me an answer that I am comfortable with.

Near as I can tell, it passed as part of the GCA of 1968. I knew off the top of my head that it had been .5" for years.


defiant - thanks for the vote of confidence. Your ideas on shipping seperate components are excellent (and I think valid). A note on British law, as I understand it, mere possession of hollowpoints (just the projectile) is a very big legal issue over there (so I'd stay away from that component).

Regarding "Anything over is illegal for a private citizen to own", that's not quite true either. "Anything over" is a weapon regulated by the NFA of 1934. If you can get the paperwork through (that's considerable), pay your transfer tax (not too bad compared to the price of the weapon), and tolerate the feds occasionally showing up to see what you're up to (judge that for yourself), then NFA weapons are perfectly legal to own (it's much easier if you have a lot of money).

A caveat regarding 80% receivers - defiant is correct, if it's 80% or less it's merely a chunk of aluminum (refering to the fairly common US 80% AR-15 receiver). At 81% (and the feds will define that to suit their needs) you'd better have the proper BATFE manufacturing permits / paperwork or you'll be in front of a Federal Judge (no good can come from that).


P.S. NBK, what's the url for the blog (updated Jan 16th)?

[festergrump]

It should be noted that 80% is just an estimation used by sites that sell partially completed receivers. It really just means that it's "in the white" enough to NOT yet be a receiver if found in your possession. It is still just a chunk of metal like Docca suggests.

When Tapco decided to try to market their line of Yugoslavian AKM receiver flats (with the front trunion bumps already pressed into them) they had to submit a sample to the BATFE for a ruling since it also had the top rails bent already, too.

BATFE ruled it was not complete enough to be considered a receiver and gave Tapco the go-ahead. (good for us since they can still be bent in the regular flat jig since all the hard stuff is done... Yugo kits as well as RPK kits can now be more easily built :) The funny thing is: where in the fuck does the BATFE get off "ruling" about anything?! They're a subsidiary of the IRS for fuck sake, not any kind of court, kangaroo or otherwise! ).

Regardless, the new flat Tapco offers is by my estimation about 90% complete... (go Tapco!) ;)

[Docca]

The funny thing is: where in the fuck does the BATFE get off "ruling" about anything?! They're a subsidiary of the IRS for fuck sake, not any kind of court, kangaroo or otherwise! ).

Rant mode on...

It's a (another example of, there are many - CPSC comes to mind) clearly unconstitutional (imho) abdication of legislative authority (and responsibilty) by the Congress of the U.S.

I'll bet that I could get 90% of them (federal legislators over the last 100 years) hung for treason, given a fair and impartial jury with respect for the U.S. Constitution (not going to happen).

Rant mode off...

[nbk2000]

No, it's >.60 caliber that's the definition of a destructive device, otherwise you wouldn't be able to buy .50 BMG ammo for those .50 BMG caliber rifles that are available all over the place, now could you? ;)

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22destructive+device%22+%22.60+caliber%2 2&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial

Unless this is just something that very recently passed, and I'm sure it'd been all over the gun circuit if the .50 had been federally banned.

[Docca]

No, it's >.60 caliber that's the definition of a destructive device, otherwise you wouldn't be able to buy .50 BMG ammo for those .50 BMG caliber rifles that are available all over the place, now could you? ;)

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22destructive+device%22+%22.60+caliber%2 2&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial

Unless this is just something that very recently passed, and I'm sure it'd been all over the gun circuit if the .50 had been federally banned.

NBK, your Google link brings up Kalifornia law, not U.S. Federal Code.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device

A destructive device is a firearm or explosive device that, in the United States, is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Examples of destructive devices are grenades, and firearms with a bore over one half of an inch, including some semi-automatic shotguns. While current federal laws allow destructive devices, some states have banned them from transfer to civilians, and only law enforcement officers and military personnel are allowed to own them.

All National Firearms including destructive devices, must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, who then closely monitor use, transport, and storage of the items.

Some types of bullets are considered destructive devices while other types are not. Rifle rounds and pistol rounds are measured differently, with rifles measured from land to land and pistols from groove to groove in the rifling. Any pistol round over .50 caliber, measured from groove to groove, is considered a "destructive device". For example, a .50 BMG bullet would be classified as a .50 caliber projectile when measured from land to land, but a .511 caliber projectile when measured from groove to groove. So while this type of bullet is legal in rifles, it is not legal for pistols.

The definition of a "destructive device" is found in Title 26, United States Code, in section 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:

(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and

(3) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term destructive device shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army, pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.[1]

[nbk2000]

It brings up a lot more than just Kalifornia.

Regardless, this hasn't had any effect on .50 shooters (yet), so is it in force yet or what?

Under the definition of 1(C), a Gy2 shell of .50 caliber or less wouldn't be considered a DD. :)

[defiant]

NBK: There is no federal prohibition against owning a .50 - but its prohibited by some state and local laws. So much for federal law being superior in stature.

Docca wrote:

Regarding "Anything over is illegal for a private citizen to own", that's not quite true either. "Anything over" is a weapon regulated by the NFA of 1934. If you can get the paperwork through (that's considerable), pay your transfer tax (not too bad compared to the price of the weapon), and tolerate the feds occasionally showing up to see what you're up to (judge that for yourself), then NFA weapons are perfectly legal to own (it's much easier if you have a lot of money).

That's true - my emphasis was on the legality of .50 and below - no consideration given to manufacturing licenses, the transfer tax, or state Class III requirement and/or ways to get around them (i.e. in Florida, an individual is required to have a chief law enforcement officer approve the purchase/ownership, which practically speaking is impossible - but a corporation isn't subject to the approval requirement and only has to pay the tax).

A synopsis of the hoops your required to jump through pursuant to federal law is available at: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162842

With regards to the BTAF knocking on the door, evidently they blunder from time to time: http://www.elfie.org/~croaker/individ.html

[Note: the rep point I gave you disappeared - either I lack sufficient standing to give rep points - or someone up there doesn't like you:D ]

[Docca]

so is it in force yet or what?

It is in force, and has been in force for years.

ShadowMyGeekSpace's Wikipedia quote goes into it in more detail than I previously knew about it. I can't verify it, but it rings true - particularly the part about measuring rifles from land to land and pistols from groove to groove. Sounds like something only a bureaucrat could come up with.

By the letter of federal law, .501 is over and therefore a "DD", unless your weapon falls under one of several exemptions or past practices. .50BMG obviously falls under one or the other (maybe both).

If you go to something like .510 you may be ok, if the feds don't decide to change the rules on you (remember who made the rules in the first place).

[Jacks Complete]

As far as I know, it's "over half an inch" to be a DD, but the NRA and others would be all over it if someone got the idea of banning the .50 BMG. I'm not in the US, though.

As regards the UK, *any* pressure bearing part is a part of a firearm, and will get you sent to jail, with a minimum sentence of 5 years if it is a pistol or ammunition. Unfinished ammo is fine, except for the missiles (not allowed expanding, explosive, tracer, AP or anything else clever even if inert - stick to lead or a full copper jacket) and the primers (use a match head to re-vamp them)

While you might get away with "Someone sent me a gun!" be prepared to be raided after a long observation period as they build a case.

[Piru]

You should quite easily get ammunition to the UK. I regularly get a shipment of 250-500 very powerfull Greek/Italian firecrackers (each one contains more than 12 grammes of high quality flash) to the UK from the continent every month or so.

The guy who sells me it just puts 3 layers of aluminium foil and 2 layers of cardboard over the package and doesnt put anything to draw attention to it like "fragile" or anything and it is sent by SEA ONLY. Also dont send it at a time like christmas because they do more regular checks.

Saying this ammunition probably looks a bit more suspucious as it is mainly metal, although flash powder has al in it. I wonder if this would show up on a magnometer!?!

[Verbatim]

An alternative to mailing bullets from the US could be manufacture them yourself.

An explosives license in the UK is only required for Black Powder, not for pyrodex or cordite.

You can purchase primers, empty cases, bullet heads or molds and reloading tool all without restriction.

However if you were considering this move I would act now as I hear the government is to legislate, restricting purchase to licensed firearm holders.

Or stating the obvious, you could just go and join the local gun club, obtain a Firearm certificate and buy some from the shop.

My club is only £35 a year.

Getting caught mailing ammo to yourself would no doubt land you a short stay at Her Majesty's pleasure.

[nbk2000]

Just so everybody knows, someone from the british postal inspector service signed up today.

The only reason they'd have to sign up would be to view the watercooler section. ;)

[professor k]

Oh, regarding the .50 bmg thing. For rifles it is measured land to land, and for pistols it's measured the uh, other way. But either way, .50bmg is legal in a rifle, but in a pistol it would not be. As for the .60 being destructive device, you just pointed out a few state laws and Canada.

As far as shipping stuff back, it'd probably get through. However, much of the mail goes through explosive scanners here in USA at least. The bullets are pretty sealed though, but I dont know. Go try it if you want.

What might be easier is just going to the range and getting a shitload of brass and buy a bullet mold and some reloading dies/press. If you can get/make powder and primers in england, you're good to go.

The ammo prolly would go through if you put it inside some old electronic like a broken PS2, maybe where the power supply would go, as that would have the most metal.

[Boom-stick]

Hypothetically, do you think it would be possible to mail back a small amount of (50 rds - 1 box) of handgun ammunition from the US to the UK, just for shits and giggles? I know they use sniffer dogs to search mail for drugs, but would they actually Xray every package looking for firearms components / ammunition etc?

Thoughts or experiences please.

I've done it a few times, even had firearm parts sent over as well:) All made to my front door safe and sound.
I once ordered 500 .22 and got sent 500 .22mag, they told to keep the ones I had and they sent over the correct ones FOC.

As Verbatim said, the easy way to get ammo in the UK though is go to nearly any gun shop and buy a Lee loader, bullets, brass, primers and powder. You don't need a license to buy the components just the finished product. And making your own is a whole lot cheaper anyway. A box of shop bought .44mag is between £16-£23 for 50, I roll my own for £6 :D

[Arisaka]

Barrels are the most difficult to obtain. Because free possesion of them is prohibted in most european countries.
In Germany for example you can buy almost al parts to make a firearm.

But keep in mind is it worth the risk ?

[nbk2000]

Can you buy receivers, like the lower for an AK-47 or AR-15 (M-16)?

[Memories]

Barrels are the most difficult to obtain. Because free possesion of them is prohibted in most european countries.
In Germany for example you can buy almost al parts to make a firearm.

But keep in mind is it worth the risk ?

Barrels seem to be the hardest part of a gun to "make right". You need quite a lot of special tools to make a barrel that will shoot straight, and lots of practice making them. The other parts of guns can be made by machining on modest budgets, though if you do skimp on getting a proper barrel you can still make some semi decent guns I am told.

I emailed a local US importer of some rifle barrels asking them what the laws were regarding a barrel. They said they could ship them to me as long as I had a license.. and I could get as many as I wanted. Though if I changed the barrel on my rifle I would need to tell the police. Another barrel importer told me only HE would fit the barrel to my gun if he sold one, so maybe he has been burned in the past or something with illegal firearm acquisition.

I also asked one of the big US reloader suppliers if they ship to my country (overseas) and they said yes, as there was no law against it. That only includes the press and dies IIRC, he said primers are illegal to send due to them being classed as explosives. So you could theoretically order yourself the press and dies (legally), then get the primers, powder and shells somewhere else. I think shells are illegal to send too, does anybody know for sure?

[Boom-stick]

Can you buy receivers, like the lower for an AK-47 or AR-15 (M-16)?

I'm not sure I'll check up that, but I know the receivers we get on most de-acts are complete, as it's the bolts and chamber that gets welded up most of the time.

A neat loop hole in UK gun laws is with "Trophies of War", ex-squaddies can bring back what they like and hang it on the wall. Loads of arms come into the country after each war that way. They can also be passed down as heir looms.

It also seems to be a fairly little known fact, that .44 russian S&W revolvers, both single and double action can be bought without a license in the UK, as the ammo isn't classed as being readily available. Spend 5 minutes with a case trimmer and box of .44spl/.44mag brass and you're good to go:D

[Arisaka]

Most receivers are deacts. Maybe you can weld them up because they are not cut in half like I see on the u.s. sten kits.

[tomu]

snip..
In Germany for example you can buy almost al parts to make a firearm.
...snip

Your statement is Absolutely Wrong!

You can't buy any important gun parts in Germany. You need a permit to buy or possess barrels even blanks, receivers upper or lower, bolts, frames or slides in Germany.

There are some ways to reactivate some type of de-act revolvers and rifles. The barrels and in the case of revolvers the cylinders must be replaced. Also receivers can be salvaged and easily repaired from some de-act guns like the AK-47 or AKM.

But the receiver of an AK isn't the problem it's the bolt and the barrel. The bolts and the barrels of de-act guns you can buy in Germany are destroyed beyond repair, they have to be replaced with new parts.

These parts can not be bought without a special gun permit. These permit is as difficult to obtain as a permit for buying the complete gun (semi-auto only of course, forget about full-auto guns in Germany they are "verboten" prohibited).

[Gerbil]

A neat loop hole in UK gun laws is with "Trophies of War", ex-squaddies can bring back what they like and hang it on the wall.

Only for stuff predating WW2, and then it needs deactivation.

[Boom-stick]

Stuff predating WW2 doesn't need deactivation, but it now needs to be entered on an FAC, but you don't have to pay for it.

[Verbatim]

I really don't see the difficulty in making a rifled barrel, you can make a hand buttoning rig fairly easily. Although most of the designs you find on the tweb use a turned wooden cylinder as the rifling pattern. You can achieve the same by twisting 6 foot of 3/8" square bar.
Else you can easily purchase .22 barrels - just ring BSA £30 + delivery.
It's the .45 "airgun" barrels that might raise eyebrows as the projectile would roll out of the barrel to comply with the 12FT/Ib airgun laws.

[Arisaka]

Barrels seem to be the hardest part of a gun to "make right". You need quite a lot of special tools to make a barrel that will shoot straight, and lots of practice making them.

You can use a .22 barrel from an air rifle.

[LibertyOrDeath]

This is going off on a bit of a tangent, but here's a thought. If you're stuck in the UK or other repressive state (including some areas of the US) and want to try to make a firearm, I recommend a 12 gauge shotgun. Here's why:

(1) The barrel can be made from nothing more than a strong pipe, since a shotgun only needs a smooth bore. No rifling needed.

(2) Shotguns are devastatingly effective at short range:

The buckshot typically used in a combat shotgun spreads out to a greater or lesser degree depending on the barrel choke, and can be effective at ranges as far as 75 yards (70 m). The delivery of the large number of projectiles simultaneously makes the shotgun the most effective short range weapon commonly used, with a hit probability 45% greater than a submachine gun, and twice as great as an assault rifle. While each pellet is only as effective as a small caliber handgun, and offers very poor penetration against an armored target, the multiple projectiles increases the likelihood of one or more peripheral wounds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_shotgun

That gives you a great weapon for home defense or urban survival. Even in places where other weapons are legal, some recommend the shotgun over other weapons because of its high effectiveness.

(3) Simple directions are readily available (e.g., the Improvised Munitions Handbook).

It may also be easier to acquire shotgun ammo than other kinds of ammo, although that's not a certainty.

The downside is that if you make the shotgun yourself, you might have trouble making anything other than a single-shot model that's difficult to reload. But even that's better than nothing -- and you can always make more than one.

So, for someone who might be taking a risk by getting ammo delivered to an anti-gun area, I think some 12-gauge shells would be the way to go unless another firearm has already been acquired.

[tomu]

I really don't see the difficulty in making a rifled barrel, you can make a hand buttoning rig fairly easily. SNIP...


Have you ever made a rifeld barrel yourself? Have you ever drilled a straight hole it's lenght several times it's diameter through a piece of metal rod and reamed it to size? Especially in a very though steel like it's needed for high power calibres?

Just getting things straight and true is not as easy as it may look in a gun magazines article. It certainly can be done and has been done but not by one with no or very little experience in machine shop work and tool making.

Btw. the twist is easily achieved by a simple gear conisting of a gear wheel it's circumference equaling the twist running on a straight geared rod, the rotary motion is transfered by a simple 1:1 90° angle gear to the rifeling tool. No need other than historic reasons for any turned wooden cylinder or a twisted steel rod.