Bush Administration puts nuke plans online

[megalomania]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WE NEED TO FIND THESE PLANS NOW! Quick like a bunny everyone, lets get a copy before they all disappear.

Want to know how to make a nuclear bomb? You can find it on the Internet -- courtesy of the Bush Administration.

That's right: The same Presidential administration that tries to jail journalists for publishing classified information allowed instructions on how to make nukes to be published on the World Wide Web.

Reports William J. Broad of The New York Times:

Last March, the federal government set up a Web site to make public a vast archive of Iraqi documents captured during the war. The Bush administration did so under pressure from Congressional Republicans who had said they hoped to “leverage the Internet” to find new evidence of the prewar dangers posed by Saddam Hussein.

But in recent weeks, the site has posted some documents that weapons experts say are a danger themselves: detailed accounts of Iraq’s secret nuclear research before the 1991 Persian Gulf war. The documents, the experts say, constitute a basic guide to building an atom bomb.

Last night, the government shut down the Web site after The New York Times asked about complaints from weapons experts and arms-control officials. A spokesman for the director of national intelligence said access to the site had been suspended “pending a review to ensure its content is appropriate for public viewing.”

Officials of the International Atomic Energy Agency, fearing that the information could help states like Iran develop nuclear arms, had privately protested last week to the American ambassador to the agency, according to European diplomats who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the issue’s sensitivity. One diplomat said the agency’s technical experts “were shocked” at the public disclosures.

Early this morning, a spokesman for Gregory L. Schulte, the American ambassador, denied that anyone from the agency had approached Mr. Schulte about the Web site.

The documents, roughly a dozen in number, contain charts, diagrams, equations and lengthy narratives about bomb building that nuclear experts who have viewed them say go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet and in other public forums. For instance, the papers give detailed information on how to build nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives, as well as the radioactive cores of atom bombs.

“For the U.S. to toss a match into this flammable area is very irresponsible,” said A. Bryan Siebert, a former director of classification at the federal Department of Energy, which runs the nation’s nuclear arms program. “There’s a lot of things about nuclear weapons that are secret and should remain so.”

Other stories about this today:
http://tks.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTJjYzYzYmMwNjY3N2YwNWE5NDQ3ZTQzZDczZWU5N2Y=
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/11/03/us_website_said_to_show_how_to_build_atomic_bomb/
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/19939.html
http://www.teluguportal.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=20077
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/northamerica/article_1217784.php/Report_US_released_Iraqi_documents_with_nuclear_bo mb_details
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?158782
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/10123.html
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_4595340
http://www.currentargus.com/ci_4595340
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-nukes3nov03,1,6235493.story?coll=la-news-a_section

I hear there are also documents related to chemical weapons production.

[Corona]

So after this blunder can they stop blaming Pakistan, AQ Khan and his infamous "nuclear supermarket" for wetting the bed?

I mean, we pooped once upon a time.... now the US pooped ..... what's a little poop here and there between friends? It happens.

[FUTI]

It is an old story to me...couple years ago USA accused China for stealing the blueprints for certain type of nuclear bomb. China came clear by being able to prove that all those data that they used/copied to make their own version of the same nuke were available on the net for free...I guess they bring a disk with lots of US websites downloaded with offline explorer :D. It started a storm among US ranks about protection of information of national interest etc. Now I'm beating myself with a club for not trying to find that info then...but there is always a second chance ;).

But I think that is an blown out of proportion for political purposes. Atomic physicist can make a good guide for nuke out of that info, but for the rest of us it can be only convincing text. As a chemist I read some books about poisions that were written for general public and can tell you that I have read it completely different from the rest of the population :). For example certain tribes from nearby used snake venom mixed with human blood to poision their arrows. Now ordinary man thinks about that as a savage ritual...and some of us chemists thinks they have discovered the fact we use even today - serum albumine stabilizes some protein in solution, so some of the poisonous one could retain their activity longer - neat isn't it?

[Corona]

And if one can't get classified data from the internet, one can always....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-10-27-losalamos_x.htm

Makes one wonder.... how will they top THIS... this mother of all insults to national security? But they will. America lives for topping it's last trick. That is what I like about them... they keep me guessing, "what's next?"

[Alexires]

http://198.68.180.60/wordpress/index.php/?p=1126

Is that what you are looking for Mega?

Unfortunately it looks like some of it is down, and most of it is in arabic, but still, something might be gained.

[the_twitchy1]

Really, the plans aren't the scary bit of atomic weapons. It's easy to make a U-235 fission bomb. Simply get your hands on a supercritical mass of U-235, separate it into two semispheres, and polish the flat sides. When you want it to go off, simply smack the polished flat parts together (preferably under vacuum to promote a perfect connection with no air between, but even just smacking them together with your hands should in theory, do it...) For U-235, that would be somewhere above 50 kg (less if you shield it with a neutron reflector like tungsten carbide).

The problem is getting your hands on pure U-235. It doesn't happen, even in the military world. Getting you hands on enriched uranium is much easier, but the relationship of enrichment to critical mass is not linear. So, the problem is getting your hands on the raw materials.

Why is it that our governments spend millions building hightech bombs, then? Well, because it's easy to get u-235 (or anything radioactive) to explode, but it's hard to get all of it to explode... In other words, what the military is spending money on is getting the yield up. But if all you want is a big bang that will kill a lot of people, the plans are easy.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bomb

[Chris The Great]

70.168.46.200

The computer is up but not accepting connections from the internet. Also possible it's a router or something, and the computer itself is beyond it. Happy hacking I guess. ;)


At the above post: The hiroshima bomb went critical when the pieces where about 30cm apart. A vacuum is not nessecary, nor is a particular shape. All that is needed are two sub-critical masses that will become critical when very close together. An explosive charge is needed otherise the pieces will go critical when still some distance from one another and have a lower yield.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

...Atomic physicist can make a good guide for nuke out of that info...Anyone who holds that title doesn't need this paper.

[Alexires]

I'm still guessing Mega wants this.

If we look at the website here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/world/middleeast/03documents.html?_r=1&ei=5094&en=1511d6b3da302d4f&hp=&ex=1162530000&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin) then we are told that the name of the document we are looking for (I believe) is called

"Draft FFCD Version 3 (20.12.95)" and
"Summary of technical achievements of Iraq’s former nuclear program"

Still can't find the fuckers though.

Edit: Here is the website with what looks like a picture of their bomb - http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/nuclear.html

[FUTI]

to shadow: I agree as much as good chemist doesn't need much to make CW, but what I meant was... that if "proliferation" of sensible information is in question, with intention to prevent the posibility that some third world country or terroristic group get hold of nukes using low educated work staff or unskilled personel then that story is just election year rant. Atomic physisist would easy (CSI ;)) make the blueprint of that device out of those info, but main point here is can someone of the suspects have all the needed materials and technology to make a nuke. It is more about reverse engeneering then anything else.

If you know the site that hold that file previously, did anyone tried wayback machine?

[Chris The Great]

As much as we'd like to think otherwise, the fact that every country making nukes has needed a team to design an (implosion) nuke shows that one physicist could not "easily" design a complete weapon. Nor could anyone here design a complete and efficient weapon no matter how much of the NWA FAQ they've read. We could design a weapon, sure, but it certainly would be lacking in technical details which would need to be worked out if it was ever to be built. I'm sure he could work out the theory, but nukes involve a hell of a lot more work than just some theory.

From what I have found so far I believe that the documents in question not only relate to the actual blueprints of the nuke(s?), but also include documents detailing how Iraq purified uranium, obtained it, and reams of other technical information on all the hurdles of building a nuke that they had to overcome. You know, all the stuff that isn't nuetron cross sections needed to build one, or the other 96% of nuke design. This is certainly a lot more than one could ever expect from a lone physicist with a bit too much time on his hands, and is far more than any other source we have access too can provide.

The wayback machine doesn't even have the site on it.

The FFCD (in the possession of the IAEA) is a 1019 page document which basically covers all of Iraq's nuclear information. The index I have of it includes such interesting chapters detailing uranium enrichment by several methods, lithium isotope purification, computer calculations and codes, experimental studies (and results) for implosion and nuetron generation, material information, electronics, fusing, and production of all the other shite needed for a working nuke. Although not needed for a country than can create a team of specialists, such work is completely out of the league of the forum at this time and for the forseable future.

I think the worst part is that the documents had been online for nearly a month and a half before the media noticed and got the site shut down.

[sparkchaser]

It doesn't take much knowlege to make a basic nuke, where the big knowlege is needed is to make an efficient nuke.

All you need for a basic one is good high speed explosive that is free of impurities combined with a working knowlege of how to use it for effective explosive lenses, a working knowlege of electronics to deliver a consistent detonation signal uniformly across those lenses, and proper materials that will go critical under the influence of those lenses.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki can attest to the effectiveness of inefficient designs that still worked well enough.

Small yields in the nuclear range are still pretty damned nasty in the general world. I won't even mention that a fizzled nuke would still be a dirty bomb. I think anyone who wanted to build a nuke, had the materials and general know-how/theory, and had the desire would have made an attempt by now. So comes *my* big question to the feds, "what's the big fuckin deal guys? They're only plans."!:D

[Alexires]

Mega, I still cant find the FFCD, but here (https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/index.html) is a report of the CIA website in regards to Iraq's nuclear program.

You can download the whole thing. I don't know if its good as I can't get it (dial up) but those with decent connections, have a look and report back please?

Edit: I'm slowly going through the HTML version, and looking at the images, it looks pretty interesting. Even if it isn't what we are looking for, its still worth having.

[nbk2000]

Alexires, I've attached the NY Times article in its entirety, for those who don't have a subscription to it.

[inventorgp]

Three hours of searching later...

Foreign Military Studies Office - Joint Reserve Intelligence Center
http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/index.htm

FMSO (Foreign Military Studies Office) DOC-EX
70.168.46.200/


70.169.163.24/allFiles.aspx?p=18
Google cache of above:
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:Q4UN9dz-QYsJ:70.169.163.24/allFiles.aspx%3Fp%3D18+site:http://70.169.163.24/&hl=en&gl=au&ct=clnk&cd=3

In the cached version:
2RAD-2004-601189
Title: Abu-Zubaydah Statement on the Capability of al-Qaidah to Manufacture and Deliver Nuclear Weapons to the U.S. (Ahhhhhh! run sheeple, run)
2RAD-2004-601189-ELC.PDF -

Tons of manuals on explosives, IEDs, and weapons etc.


And,
American spectator article:
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9745


Note: I can't link up to 70.168.46.200/ As Chris also stated.
Does anyone else have this problem?

[thermobaric]

The patent for firing switches of nuclear implosion weapons,this went public in 1976.

US3956658

++++++++

Don't bother linking to a patent on the USPTO site, as the URL's expire within a couple of days. Better to just provide the number. NBK

[Hirudinea]

http://i13.tinypic.com/2nm3g5e.jpg

[Alexires]

I think you will find that 70.169.163.24 is either down or not available to the public.

Thank you inventorgp, now that we have the names of the files, it might be a little easier to find them. Also thank you NBK. I didn't realize a subscription was necessary....

Mega, from that cache, which ones would you like?

[inventorgp]

Ah, a conventional gun type.

Most nukes are simple in design.
I got this form a book, for a fission bomb (implosion type) starting with the core:

Fission fuel, 14lb plutonium sphere
U238 shell (tamper)
Aluminum shell
High explosive lenses (shaped charge, whatever) - US MkIII fission bomb used RDX, TNT, and BA(NO3)2
Another aluminum shell
And finally a armored steel case

That’s the very quick description of the innards.


To detonate the bomb, slapper detonators would have to be placed on equally on axis's. Trigged spark gap in series with a sufficiently large high voltage capacitor should do it.

Capacitors are charged -> Spark gap get triggered -> Slappers turn into high pressure plasma -> Explosives detonate -. Core crushes to critical point -> Neutorn initiator kicks it off -> Fissile material starts fission -> Air is superheated resulting in large fireball and pressure wave -> Target destroyed

The patent thermobaric found is a triggered spark gap.

Visual help: Nuclear weapon design (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_design)

No problamo, Alexries

EDIT: Slappers have to be set of at exactly the same time.

[thermobaric]

US5414588-Patent for high performance capacitors using nanomaterials.
US5731538-Patent for slapper detonators.
US3040660-Original electric bridgewire detonator patent.
US4996017-Neutron generator tube patent.

An article on thermonuclear weapons information,and ease of obtaining it.http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/cardozo.html
The Greenpeace site with detailed weapon designs.archive.greenpeace.org/comms/nukes/nukes.html
And the Progressive article mentioned.http://progressive.org/images/pdf/1179.pdf

[Desmikes]

You know, all the stuff that isn't nuetron cross sections needed to build one, or the other 96% of nuke design.-Chris The Great.

While most of the technical nuke design availale right now is only a theory based on declassified pictures/videos, all of the needed nuclear data is widely available. Nuclear cross sections are available for all nuclides that are of any interest for anyone doing nuclear calculations. Cross sections for all nuclides, especially fissile/fissionable isotopes, have been varified many times over by civil nuclear research (fast/thermal reactors). Just search for Tables of Nuclides and see what is available. Korean-maintained table of nuclides is good, also a few by US national labs are decent.


Well, because it's easy to get u-235 (or anything radioactive) to explode, but it's hard to get all of it to explode... - the_twitchy1
The_twitchy1, I am glad that you took the time to read something on the topic prior to posting but you should limit yourself to regurgitating the info you find from credible sources, don't formulate any thoughts of your own just yet.
In the nuclear world, the word "radioactive" refers to isotopes that possess any of the characteristics that may cause their nuclei to emit particles or energy (as the result of radioactive decay or nuclear excitation). Fissile isotopes (U33, U235, Np237, Pu239, Pu241) are the only isotopes capable of thermal fission and are essential for construction of fission bombs. (Np237 was never used for that purpose, but in theory it can). These nuclides are but a tiny fraction of all radioactive materials.

[thermobaric]

This chapter on the iraqwatch site seem to have some info on nuclear enrichment and weaponization.http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/DOE/DOE-Annex3.htm

[Chris The Great]

-Chris The Great.

While most of the technical nuke design availale right now is only a theory based on declassified pictures/videos, all of the needed nuclear data is widely available. Nuclear cross sections are available for all nuclides that are of any interest for anyone doing nuclear calculations. Cross sections for all nuclides, especially fissile/fissionable isotopes, have been varified many times over by civil nuclear research (fast/thermal reactors). Just search for Tables of Nuclides and see what is available. Korean-maintained table of nuclides is good, also a few by US national labs are decent.

I know, that's what I meant. But nuetron cross sections are meaningless to you when you hit the wall trying to cast a perfect sphere of uranium after finally getting to to stop igniting into flame half the time. Or in how one machines numerous identical explosive lenses. THAT is the kicker, the practical. Anybody who has some smarts and has done a lot of reading can design a nuke, whether they could actually BUILD it is a completely other story. I was hoping the iraqi documents could lend some insight into this extremely important area of weapons design.

[NoltaiR]

Well a topic like this could go both ways, I like the Bush administration (possibly because I was born and bred to be a die-hard republican).

Information like this is just propaganda.. Reveal that the enemy has the technology while at the same time we are spending lots of money into preventing them from building improvised weapons.

This is older news but here is a cut from MSNBC:

Updated: 7:20 p.m. CT March 13, 2006
BAGHDAD, Iraq - The United States is pouring billions more dollars and fresh platoons of experts into its campaign to “defeat IEDs,” the roadside bombs President Bush describes as threat No. 1 to Iraq’s future.

The American military even plans to build special, more defensible highways here, in its frustrating standoff with the makeshift munitions — “improvised explosive devices” — that Iraqi insurgents field by the hundreds to hobble U.S. road movements in the 3-year-old conflict.

Out on those risky roads, and back at the Pentagon, few believe that even the most advanced technology will eliminate the threat.

[knowledgehungry]

This is all a big hoax made up by the Bush administration, the Democrats told me that Iraq didn't have a nuclear weapon program so how can they have nuke research documents?;)

[thermobaric]

Iraq wouldn't have had an operational nuclear weapons program during the 2003 invasion, but the documents from 1991 would have shown almost a full nuclear assembly line.Israel's bombing of the Osirak reactor,the first Gulf War and the assasination of Gerald Bull would have effectively destroyed the Iraqi program.
Article on Gerald Bull and the supergun.http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/other/supergun.htm

[akinrog]

This is all a big hoax made up by the Bush administration, the Democrats told me that Iraq didn't have a nuclear weapon program so how can they have nuke research documents?;)

I agree!... During the first gulf war, the only nuclear reactor the counry had, was destroyed. And during the following 12 years of embargo, UN weapon inspectors (which include a top US NAvy guy, who testified many times that Iraq had no nuclear weapons and all CW and BW found have already turned into goo) sought the entire country for 12 years and could not find anything significant.

Most importantly, the coalition forces still failed to find a nuclear weapon despite 3 years past following so called liberation of Iraq.

So by allowing a fake leak, NWO guy Bush is trying to justify his lies. Regards.

[knowledgehungry]

I was being facetious. I believe Iraq had nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs, whether they had weapons or not is a different matter.

This was an official release of information, not an "acccidental" leak.

[the_twitchy1]

- the_twitchy1
The_twitchy1, I am glad that you took the time to read something on the topic prior to posting but you should limit yourself to regurgitating the info you find from credible sources, don't formulate any thoughts of your own just yet.
In the nuclear world, the word "radioactive" refers to isotopes that possess any of the characteristics that may cause their nuclei to emit particles or energy (as the result of radioactive decay or nuclear excitation). Fissile isotopes (U33, U235, Np237, Pu239, Pu241) are the only isotopes capable of thermal fission and are essential for construction of fission bombs. (Np237 was never used for that purpose, but in theory it can). These nuclides are but a tiny fraction of all radioactive materials.

Sorry, but again, maybe you should be reading up some too. Americium 241 is also on that list. So at least one more thing should be there...

I did make a mistake, however. My statement should have read "All neutron-producing radioactive material" not "all radioactive material". As anything that produces neutrons can be made fissile, under the right conditions, that would have been more accurate.

Although I have to say, the amount of 'original thought' that goes on here is laughable. Sorry, but you are accusing me of having nothing to say because in most cases you don't want to hear someone else saying something like "Don't be foolish, this is not important" when you're wetting yourself over the idea of getting your hands on something like this. Point blank, these plans are useless without the raw material, and you don't have that. So why do you want them? Because then you can say you have those plans. Whoop de fucking doo.

I can build a half dozen things that would be more powerful than the best you can do with those plans in my basement right now. I don't because they'd be fucking useless unless I wanted to destroy the world... and as much as you guys spout off about the corruption of the whole world and every government in it, I really don't think you want to take them down. You want to be them... and I'm happy with the world the way it is.

So, you want new, innovative, interesting ways to attack, defend, and otherwise manipulate those in power? Try opening your bloody mind instead of attacking anyone that doesn't fit into your world view. Because I'll guarantee that the next big thing is going to come out of left field instead of being something you expect. It's not going to be a bigger nuke, or a better pepperspray, or a better gun. It's going to be something totally new, and something you would never have thought about.

So, I'm gone. Done. No more. Because, point blank... there's nothing here that I can use that I couldn't figure out on my own, with better results, faster... and without being belittled for silly things by stupid, narrow minded fools. Kiss your own ass, and see how original you get.

[nbk2000]

He's gone, done, no more. :)

Can't say we don't aim to serve our members fondest desires. :p

[thermobaric]

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq4.html
The guy that translated the documents on his blog before they were taken down says this site has just as good information on nuclear weapons.

[Desmikes]

Sorry, but again, maybe you should be reading up some too. Americium 241 is also on that list. So at least one more thing should be there...

I did make a mistake, however. My statement should have read "All neutron-producing radioactive material" not "all radioactive material". As anything that produces neutrons can be made fissile, under the right conditions, that would have been more accurate.


Once again, you are attempting to formulate a thought of your own while drowning in ignorance.

1) "fissile" refers to ability of an isotope to undergo thermal fission (neutron w/ ~0 kinetic energy). It's a nuclear property, and there is nothing you can do to "make" anything fissile.
2) Any isotope (except H-1) can be "neutron-producing" via (gamma, n) or (n,2n). Just because an isotope releases neutrons when self-fissioning does not mean it can be used for fission bombs. U-238 self-fissions more than U-235.
"All neutron-producing radioactive material" cannot be used to achieve critical mass!!!
3) While Am-241 is one of half a dozen of isotopes (in addition to the ones I have listed) that you can use to achieve critical mass, it is "Fissionable" not "FISSILE". It exhibits strong threshold behavior. I only listed fissile isotopes in my previous post.

[Cobalt.45]

I can build a half dozen things that would be more powerful than the best you can do with those plans in my basement right now. I don't because they'd be fucking useless unless I wanted to destroy the world...
Well, now, aren't we full of ourselves today!:rolleyes:

Please don't destroy the world just yet. I still haven't seen all of the Squidbillies episodes.

At least you got your name almost right. Just delete everything past the first four letters, and you'll have it perfect...:p

[thermobaric]

This site has the Los Alamos technical reports that were taken offline after 9/11.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/index1.html

[Uraijit]

That's right: The same Presidential administration that tries to jail journalists for publishing classified information allowed instructions on how to make nukes to be published on the World Wide Web.


Oh no! That mean scarry Bush man is trying to ruin the world!

[Acrolein]

Bush must be in the stupidest party ever to actually post how to make a nuke on the internet! To be that stupid he must have an unseen motive. But what could it be?:confused:

[10fingers]

Well unfortunately we do have the stupidest president in the history of this country. I could go into any corner bar and pull out the first drunk I saw and turn him into a better president. What an embarassment he is to the US.
But concerning plans for nuclear weapons, isn't the genie pretty much out of the bottle? All that can really been done now is to keep the necessary materials from getting into the wrong hands.
And why do some people blame the US for the spread of nuclear technology? Wasn't it China and Russia that helped North Korea and Pakistan build nuclear reactors? A reactor is the key ingredient to a nuclear weapons program.
Also, wasn't it France and Germany that were doing most of the work with Iraqs nuclear reactor program?

[nbk2000]

Having the information is useless without the fissionable fuels to do it with.

[Corona]

And why do some many people blame the US for the spread of nuclear technology. Wasn't it China and Russia that helped North Korea and Pakistan build nuclear reactors?



Nope.

It was... drum roll please... CANADA..! They taught us (I'm from Pakistan, btw) everything about nuclear energy. Same with India... Canadians and their CANDU reactors.

Our new reactors are of Chinese design... which is based on designs by Westinghouse (American?).

But Canada started it all, God bless them.

However, all our civilian reactors are under IAEA safeguards, I believe. Even that old CANDU in Karachi. So the fuel from the reactor itself was never used in any nuke program.

http://www.paec.gov.pk/kanupp/ic.htm

India, copied the CANDU design and scaled it up slightly. That was unsafeguarded and the fuel was used for their nuke program.

I don't know about the Norks and their reactor... probably Russian?

[10fingers]

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I hope Bush doesn't know, he might decide to invade to look for WMDs. I hear Canada has oil too, kill two birds with one stone.
The point is this, other countries can get away with all types of things that are improper and you never hear about it but if the US were to do it we would get skewered by world opinion.

[c.Tech]

The point is this, other countries can get away with all types of things that are improper and you never hear about it but if the US were to do it we would get skewered by world opinion.
That’s not true, what about Israel’s attack on Lebanon? Iraq's invasion of Kuwait? Germanys invasion of the world? Various other wars?

You got to realise that there is always going to be a good and a bad sides in wars. In Vietnam and Iraq (Afghanistan too if you believe about the governments involvement in 9/11 like me) America was the problem and shouldn’t have been in there.

But do you see anybody bitching when America got involved in WW1 and WW2?

The bad side is always shown but though the media propaganda they make wars seem acceptable in the countries who are invading and the countries of its allies (eg. the west)

You should start looking at the whole picture instead of a black and white image of war.

[10fingers]

I wasn't talking about wars, I was referring to the dessimination of nuclear technology.

[Corona]

10fingers:

There are only a handful of countries who know the trick to atomic weaponry. All of them have been guilty at some point of spreading nuclear doo-doo.

You'll be amused at the following story (from the book "long road to chagai"):

Our man in Europe at that time... Mr.Butt... was in-charge of sniffing out nuclear technology of any kind available to countries such as Pakistan. He was the procuring agent for nuke tech.

One day this French guy shows up at his office. Seems he is the son-in-law of some important guy in the French Govt. (French minister of defense?). And he wants to get rich real quick because he sez his father-in-law gives him looks that say he is a lousy husband for his daughter. So... does Pakistan want some of the equipment France is about to destroy? Equipment from those islands where France tests it's nukes?

Bloody hell...!!!

"Sure"... sez Mr.Butt.... he gets authorization from the Govt. of Pakistan and the equipment is shipped from the South Pacific island to Dubai from where it is smuggled into Pakistan.

Among other trash, we got some of those super-oscilloscopes in working condition which we copied. Using them we got the same data out of 2 atomic tests that otherwise would've taken us 50 tests.

We were happy. And the French son-in-law was happy, because of all the money we paid him, he could look his father-in-law in the eyes and show him the finger.

If we had refused him, he was going to India next. (India later stole the same kind of equipment from the US)

After Canada, it is France who is most responsible for our nukes. Followed by countries such as Holland, Belgium, Germany and of course Switzerland. Our nuke program was very much European when it started out.

[Acrolein]

Well at the present there is a OTC source of Americium241 in smoke detectors and if you possessed $900,000 you might be able to obtain the 60 kilo's necessary for critical mass needed to build the bomb. But where the hell is someone going to get a million dollars?:rolleyes: Or when we find out what they're using in nuclear laptop batteries then they might contain enough nuclear material (for about a trillion dollars...:().

[Match]

Well at the present there is a OTC source of Americium241 in smoke detectors and if you possessed $900,000 you might be able to obtain the 60 kilo's necessary for critical mass needed to build the bomb. But where the hell is someone going to get a million dollars?:rolleyes: Or when we find out what they're using in nuclear laptop batteries then they might contain enough nuclear material (for about a trillion dollars...:().

With the wealth that some of those middle easterners posses, a mill' wouldn't be that much to pay for a nuke, double that number even.

[Hirudinea]

It was... drum roll please... CANADA..! They taught us (I'm from Pakistan, btw) everything about nuclear energy. Same with India... Canadians and their CANDU reactors.

Not true, follow this link...

http://www.nuclearfaq.ca/cnf_sectionF.htm#x1

And besides just because somebody gives you knife dosn't mean you have to stab your neighbour, try slicing a friggin' loaf of bread instead! :)

[Cobalt.45]

Posted in the wrong thread.

[Corona]

Not true, follow this link...

http://www.nuclearfaq.ca/cnf_sectionF.htm#x1




Isn't this exactly what I said? That they copied the CANDU and used fuel from THOSE reactors? What are you saying "not true" for??? :confused:
-----------------------
It is also possible that India used some of its unsafeguarded "CANDU-derivative" reactors (the copies of its two CANDU reactors, but unlike the CANDU units, not covered by UN-based safeguards) to generate weapons-grade plutonium [2]. However, much of this information remains unconfirmed, and subject to speculation by outside observers.
---------------------------
We know better what they did or didn't do since, I believe, we spend considerable assets on keeping an eye on them.

Canadian nuclear technology is one of the safest in the world. CANDU reactors of all types have an excellent safety record and they aren't suited to a weapons program (unlike Russian reactors which produce Plutonium like some people fart after eating beans). The copying and using of CANDU derived reactors by India, was the height of nuclear desperation.

Pakistan never used anything from our civilian nuclear program to make weapons. This is exactly why our first weapons used Uranium... not Plutonium swiped from spent reactor fuel.

A small example of the nuclear tech Pakistan put to good use can be seen every time anyone eats Super-Basmati rice (very high yield). That is a true miracle product which was made by ordinary rice getting zapped with nuclear radiation, producing a mutant breed.

Thanks for the link.

[Hirudinea]

Isn't this exactly what I said? That they copied the CANDU and used fuel from THOSE reactors? What are you saying "not true" for???

Right you said they used the CANDU copies, and fuel from it, they didn't they (or at least, and most probably the Paks) used the "Canada India Reactor Uranium System" reactor, based, according to the article, the NRX reactor which, among other uses "initially served as a prototype heavy-water plutonium production reactor, conceived during the days of the WWII Manhattan Project under a tripartite agreement between Canada, the U.S., and Britain." So the CIRUS reactor, a reactor much more suited to making bombs was used to to make Indian nukes, not CANDUs, fine point sure, but considering the anit-nuke hysteria today I don't want people thinking India and Pakistan built nukes from CANDUs and in 20 years I have to live without electricity because nobody had the balls to replace Pickering and Bruce with new CANDUs!

Canadian nuclear technology is one of the safest in the world. CANDU reactors of all types have an excellent safety record and they aren't suited to a weapons program (unlike Russian reactors which produce Plutonium like some people fart after eating beans). The copying and using of CANDU derived reactors by India, was the height of nuclear desperation.

India produced CANDU clones for power because they had them, knew how to build them and they work like a charm, their weapons programmes are probablly based on CIRUS reactors.

Pakistan never used anything from our civilian nuclear program to make weapons. This is exactly why our first weapons used Uranium... not Plutonium swiped from spent reactor fuel.


Aagain, its a bitch to get Plutonium from a CANDU, read further down the link I gave you.

A small example of the nuclear tech Pakistan put to good use can be seen every time anyone eats Super-Basmati rice (very high yield). That is a true miracle product which was made by ordinary rice getting zapped with nuclear radiation, producing a mutant breed.


Now thats what nukes should be used for, keeping the lights on and cooking the mutant rice! :D

[Cobalt.45]

And to bring it full circle, all the fissionable materials are worthless without a delivery system.

A tanker or freighter could be rigged up as a floating bomb or an aircraft could be flown 9/11-style into a target.

But neither has the convenience factor or probability for success of a legitimate ICBM

Judging by the rather feeble attempts that N. Korea has demonstrated, they have a ways to go yet. China is probably capable. Surely Russia could.

Soon enough though, we'll be faced with the proposition of doing a preemptive hit, or getting hit.

You know the US takes a lot of heat from elsewhere about what we did or didn't do in every situation. But the bitching often comes from places that merely follow us, sheep-like.

This greatly entertains me.

When it comes down to "lead, follow or get out of the way", rightly or wrongly- we lead. And that beats the shit out of the alternatives, IMO.

[nbk2000]

It could be that the Norks missile test failed because a SOF team shot it during launch with a .50.

That is one of the missions that SOF is tasked with, and the .50 is capable of.

[Hirudinea]

And to bring it full circle, all the fissionable materials are worthless without a delivery system.

A tanker or freighter could be rigged up as a floating bomb or an aircraft could be flown 9/11-style into a target.

But neither has the convenience factor or probability for success of a legitimate ICBM.

Yes but the cost and simplicity of a nuke in a shiping container blowing up in an L.A. or N.Y. harbour makes it much more attractive, and even if it failed (was discovered before it went off), its mere presence in a shiping container would bring overseas trade grinding to a halt (at least temporarily), it could cost more money than 9/11 even if it didn't blow up!

Judging by the rather feeble attempts that N. Korea has demonstrated, they have a ways to go yet.

Still not bad for about 10 million people in a Stalinist dystopia reverse engering 50 year old SCUDS.

You know the US takes a lot of heat from elsewhere about what we did or didn't do in every situation. But the bitching often comes from places that merely follow us, sheep-like.

Those who won't do bitch.

[10fingers]

Good points. I don't see the big deal about a delivery system. If drug smugglers can get tons of stuff into this country, why couldn't someone get a nuke in? There are thousands of those cargo containers coming in here everyday and only a very small percentage are inspected.
Back during the cold war with Russia I thought, how do we know that there isn't a Russian nuke already sitting in every major city of this country with Ivan holding the button?