NG

[VX]

one day their was a mental student. one day him and a friend wanted to make some NG, they obtained all of the necessary materials, and followed the instructions on megalomania religiously (except scaling down the amounts to 20cm3 of nitric, 40cm3 of sulphuric and 10cm3 of glycerol). At the end he only had less than a drop of product, when he tried to remove it from the solution, he tested it and found it to not be NG. (it did not burn with a clear blue flame). I have done searches to find why this happened(he was using 70% HNO3), that is why he used more sulphuric than stated in megalomania, (suggested in a previous post) However it was also suggested in this post 70% does work if the amount of sulphuric is increased.

Has anyone got any idea why his yield was so low, what amount of NG should result from using the amounts suggested in megalomania??

Thanks in advance for any reply,

VX

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Their is no spoon!!



[This message has been edited by VX (edited 11-22-2001).]

[Anthony]

I've never tried the process using HNO3, but I can vouch fort he H2SO4/metal-NO3 process, which produced at least as much NG as glycerine was used.

[VX]

Anthony,

ive done a few searches for info on this method. I cant however find any specific quantities and/or methods, only people saying it can be done.

Do you know where i can find any specific info on this method.(post it here if you wishhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif) (most sites are blocked throught the collage internet filter)

This method is new to me, i new it existed but assumed it to be inferior) if it wors it would be excelent as i have a good supply of H2SO4 and KNO3 (at the moment). But a limeted supply of HNO3, (i dont know how much more the guy in the shop will sell me before he gets suspicious-lets face it, it hasnt got that many legit uses)

Thanks again,
VX

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Their is no spoon!!

[This message has been edited by VX (edited 11-21-2001).]

[Anthony]

You're in luck as I have just found a tatty piece of paper in the shed containing the ratios that I used:

4gm NH4NO3
6ml H2SO4
1ml Glycerine

It's best to set up a dropper to add the glycerine as it takes ages by hand and you are more likely to add it too fast through impatience.

[VX]

You used ammonium nitrate, i assume their would be no problem using KNO3 or NaNO3?

Other than using different reactants, i assume that the procedure was exactly the same as stated in megalomania, i.e. for seperating out the product etc?

This has already been a massive help, thanks very much....VX

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Their is no spoon!!

[vulture]

Would using H3PO4 (phosphoric acid) 85% work instead of H2SO4, because i have phosphoric acid, but it's impossible for me to get sulfuric acid...

[Anthony]

Yes, other metal nitrates can be used, in fact I believe KNO3 has better nitrating ability than NH4NO3.

This should be correct:

RAM of NH4NO3 = 2x14 4x1 3x16 = 80

RAM of KNO3 = 1x39 1x14 3x16 = 101

101/80 = 1.2625

4gm x 1.2625 = 5.05gm of KNO3

[nbk2000]

VX

You say you're blocked because of the colleges internet filter, yet your english is horrible.

Please explain how you're having internet access through a college, yet can't even spell college correctly. Or capitalize "I" when referring to yourself, etc...etc...

I've found a capillary wick excellent for additions. Just punch a tiny hole in the bottom of a plastic bottle, pull a cotton string through the hole and knot it, then add your glycerin. The other end of the string is wetted and stuck to the side of the beaker.

The glycerin very slowly seeps out along the side of the beaker, avoiding any splashing.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[Anthony]

Excellent idea NBK. Before I used a gradulated syringe with the plunger with a piece of plastic hose on the nozzle. With a small clamp on the hose to regulate the flow. But the capillary idea is simpler and high capacity (I was limited to a 5ml syringe).

[Ctrl_C]

nbk, i know people in college that cant spell "college." go figure.

------------------
Long

Ass

Sig

[nbk2000]

Those people are products of the fucked up educational system that lets semi-literate people graduate because it's simpler than admitting that their students can barely read or write.

Then you've got the racial quotas that most colleges have that requires them to let in undereducated muds so that they'll have a "diversified" student body. :barf:

A college degree a centry ago meant you were highly schooled in literature, science, culture, philosophy, and other skills.

Now it means you spent a lot of money for 4 years of drunken partying and whoring.

VERY few colleges now are worthy of the word. MIT, Vasser, Annapolis, and a few others.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[VX]

I think it may be unfair to say that I am only semi literate. I study Chemistry, Physics, and Biology,.. (In England, the same country that I was born in) However my point is that I am a student, and the Internet filter the college uses is a pain and wont let me view most pages with content similar to this. I wasn’t trying to get Anthony to post info here simply because I couldn’t be bothered to find it myself, sorry about any misunderstanding, and my incorrect English....
Anyway, NBK, thanks for the other advice about using a wick to transfer the glycerine into the acid, this seems a very good idea and I will probably experiment with this method in the near future.

Oh yeah, Anthony thanks for the help as well, this method is far more useful to me than the normal method as I have loads of KNO3 and NaNO3, which is why I got so excited about this method.

Finaly
I don’t suppose anyone has any idea why the first reaction didn't work though...have they?
-----------------
There is no spoon!!



[This message has been edited by VX (edited 11-23-2001).]

[nbk2000]

Not enough time, too high or low a temperature, improper washing, any number of things.

You need to keep a notebook of your experiments so you can note the effect any changes make to your reaction.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[Microtek]

When it becomes time to separate the NG from the nitrating acids I suggest you pour the mixture into about twice its volume of ice water. In my experience, trying to separate the NG from the acid directly can be difficult especially if you are using the H2SO4/nitrate method.

[Anthony]

You can use a web based proxy server such as http://www.linkbeat.com to get around proxy filtering. Usually graphics fail to load but you've at least got the text.

A pipette is invaluable for transfering the NG from one washing solution to the next. Just remeber to wash any utensils/containers you use again between washing stages.

Oh, and enjoy your nitro headache, you *will* get one unless you are very careful.

Edit: NBK, I think colleges are a bit different in the UK to the US. Here you go to college when you're 16 (when you finish school) and the courses are usually 1-2years long. It isn't a high standard qualification, it just gets you into university really. The entry requirements for some of the courses are "basic literacy and numeracy skills"...


[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited 11-22-2001).]

[nbk2000]

Ah, the american english/british english differences again.

Our colleges would be your universities then.

And our final high school years your college.

VX, you can normally find a workaround for internet filters if you know which one it is. Most of them put up some little banner or warning saying "Blocked by Silly Filter" or such. Once you know what the offending program is called, look up "offending program" "bypass" or "defeat" on a search engine.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2ooo) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[VX]

Once again you have been an invaluble help. This is an excellent forum, connected to an excellent site, keep up the good work.
Thanks again,
VX

------------------
There is no spoon!!



[This message has been edited by VX (edited 11-26-2001).]

[BrAiNFeVeR]

I just had a mighty scary runaway reaction on my hands, I used the following procedure:

-20 ml H2SO4 (96/98%)
-17 gr KNO3
-4 ml glycerine

I mixed the H2SO4 and the KNO3, and went outside with this and plunged the plastic (PP) beaker in the snow for cooling. When it was pretty cold (don't know exact temp, I really should get a good thermometer), I started adding the glycerine very slowly with a syringe, letting it flow by the side of the beaker, to avoid splashes and such.
Then the trouble begun, It started raining and I got pretty wet (made sure no rain entered the reaction vessel) and impatient, so I started to add a bit faster now (like 1 ml/minute or so)
Suddenly, brown/reddish fumes were produced, and naturally, I started to freak http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif , I quickly pulled myself together, took a handful of snow, and plunged it in the violent reaction, wich instantly stopped (luckily).
Sweaty, shaking a bit, I went back inside and started the holy purifification procedure ....

A word af caution to all beginners: First 5 reactions or so: keep to small amounts like 1 or 2 ml glycerine.


------------------
"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[PYRO500]

The first time I tried to make NG I added the glycerine down the side, I was not using an air bubbler witch I should have been, and the glycerine started forming a layer on top. the reaction vessle sat in salt ice solution for a while I figured I could stir the stuff cause it wasn't reacting so I start stirring the stuff with the thermometer being careful not to touch the sides or bottom, the large mass of glycerine sank into the mix and the temp shot up and a lot of NOx fumes appeared, I tried to pour it into the ice bath but some of it spilled on the ground, I had a nice red plume coming up from my lawn. now nothing will ever grow there again http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif .

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Society creates the crime, the criminal completes it.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

VX, what was the viscosity of the glycerin you used like? Its not always pure. if its really runny then it has way to much water in it. The pure stuff is thicker than maple syrup. also, if you leave the lid off the glycerin bottle it will absorb water and become watered down. this may have been the problem with BrAiNFeVeR's attempt. Perhaps the water in the glycerine mixing with the acids raised the temp to much becuase when i make Nitroglycerin i use pure HNO3 and H2SO4 and i add the glycerine 5 ml at a time and wait only 3 or 4 minutes between additions. the temperature never really raises too much. Ive never had a run away with nitroglycerin and ive done it many times.


------------------
How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?


Explosives Archive (http://surf.to/alexplo)

[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited December 24, 2001).]

[BrAiNFeVeR]

I have glycerol too (from school) should I use that in the future ??
Because glycerine is just glycerol with water, right ?

Edit: My glycerine is pretty thick I think, it's like oil or liquid honey consistency ...

------------------
"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[This message has been edited by BrAiNFeVeR (edited December 24, 2001).]

[kingspaz]

hey i just looked it up on multipedia and it says glycerine is just another name for glycerol. i also found the proper name to be propan-1,2,3-triol.

[10fingers]

Glycerol and glycerin are the exact same thing. Because it is called glycerol doesn't mean it has water in it. Some brands of glycerin used for moisturizing, etc. may be diluted with water. To find out if it contains water you can measure the density. It should be 1.260 gms per ml.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

I'm going to measure my density later on (I'll put it in in an edit), but if I find it has water in it, can I boil it untill the density is correct ?
Or untill white fumes appear or something ..

Edit: I finally got around to measuring my density, and though is isn't very precise, I believe there is very little water in it. I used a balance with on one scale 10 ml glycerine, and then I dropped destillated water on the other side (using a syringe), and it was a bit more then 12 ml water, so ...

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: BrAiNFeVeR ]</p>

[ALENGOSVIG1]

taken from uncler festers home workshop explosives

The first step to bypassing this potential pitfall is to pick up a few
different bottles of the competing brands, and check them for their water
content. The easiest way to do this is to see how runny the glycerin is.
Adding water to glycerin makes it runnier. The difference can be made more
obvious by cooling the bottles down in a refrigerator. Good glycerin will
get thick like honey.

If no brand is clearly superior to the others, one must check to see if
all the brands are garbage, or if they are all good. To do this, the
glycerin is cooked to see how much water will boil out of it. The best way
to go about this is to pour the contents of a bottle of glycerin to be
tested into a glass measuring cup (best if it is made out of pyrex or kimax
so it will withstand the heating) and then place the glass measuring cup
into a small pan or other metal container that is filled with enough
cooking oil to reach about half way up the sides of the measuring cup. This
is placed on a stove and heated. The temperature of the glycerin is
monitored by use of any convenient sized cooking thermometer. The glycerin
should be stirred regularly to make sure that it gets heated evenly. There
is no danger in this process since glycerin is no more unstable than the
cooking oil. When the temperature of the glycerin reaches 100øC (212øF),
boiling may be noted in the glycerin. If it does boil, that means there is
water in it. Glycerin does not boil until a temperature of 290øC is
reached. The heating should be continued until a temperature of around
200øC is reached, and then the heat can be turned off and the contents
allowed to cool.

To interpret the results, simply read on the measuring cup how much of
the glycerin has boiled away. Some small amount of boiling can be expected
because glycerin will soak up water from the air just by being exposed to
humid air. If, however, more than a few percent of the glycerin boils away,
there is too much water in the glycerin for best results. In making these
volume measurements, it is important that the glycerin be at about the same
temperature for both the before and after reading. This is because glycerin
expands quite a bit when it is heated, so taking one reading while the
glycerin is hot will give inaccurate results.

If the glycerin has an unacceptable amount of water in it, one has a
couple of choices. The first and easiest choice is to just keep shopping
until a good grade of glycerin is found. If you do not strike paydirt by
this method, the more difficult route of distilling the glycerin must be
followed.

Industrial manufacturers of nitro almost always distill their glycerin
before using it. This puts their worried little heads to rest on the water
issue. It is pretty safe and easy to do, but the distilling equipment
described in the nitric acid section is needed to do a good job. An
alternative is to follow the procedure described just above for testing the
amount of water in the glycerin. If the temperature of the glycerin is held
in the 150øC range for an hour or so, almost all the water will boil out of
it. It will pick up a yellowish color during the heating process due to the
formation of acrolein compounds, but this does not cause any harm.
Industrial distilling techniques give the same yellow color. It just means
that the nitro will be yellow colored instead of the nice clear product
that could be had with better glycerin. If this clear product is desired, a
vacuum distillation of the glycerin will give it. If the experimenter has
experience doing vacuum distillations, this is the best route to follow. I
must warn that glycerin has a tendency to bump during vacuum distillations.
Adding a healthy amount of glass wool (angel's hair) to the distilling
flask will keep this under control. Boiling chips do not do a good job with
glycerin. The first step to bypassing this potential pitfall is to pick up a few
different bottles of the competing brands, and check them for their water
content. The easiest way to do this is to see how runny the glycerin is.
Adding water to glycerin makes it runnier. The difference can be made more
obvious by cooling the bottles down in a refrigerator. Good glycerin will
get thick like honey.

If no brand is clearly superior to the others, one must check to see if
all the brands are garbage, or if they are all good. To do this, the
glycerin is cooked to see how much water will boil out of it. The best way
to go about this is to pour the contents of a bottle of glycerin to be
tested into a glass measuring cup (best if it is made out of pyrex or kimax
so it will withstand the heating) and then place the glass measuring cup
into a small pan or other metal container that is filled with enough
cooking oil to reach about half way up the sides of the measuring cup. This
is placed on a stove and heated. The temperature of the glycerin is
monitored by use of any convenient sized cooking thermometer. The glycerin
should be stirred regularly to make sure that it gets heated evenly. There
is no danger in this process since glycerin is no more unstable than the
cooking oil. When the temperature of the glycerin reaches 100øC (212øF),
boiling may be noted in the glycerin. If it does boil, that means there is
water in it. Glycerin does not boil until a temperature of 290øC is
reached. The heating should be continued until a temperature of around
200øC is reached, and then the heat can be turned off and the contents
allowed to cool.

To interpret the results, simply read on the measuring cup how much of
the glycerin has boiled away. Some small amount of boiling can be expected
because glycerin will soak up water from the air just by being exposed to
humid air. If, however, more than a few percent of the glycerin boils away,
there is too much water in the glycerin for best results. In making these
volume measurements, it is important that the glycerin be at about the same
temperature for both the before and after reading. This is because glycerin
expands quite a bit when it is heated, so taking one reading while the
glycerin is hot will give inaccurate results.

If the glycerin has an unacceptable amount of water in it, one has a
couple of choices. The first and easiest choice is to just keep shopping
until a good grade of glycerin is found. If you do not strike paydirt by
this method, the more difficult route of distilling the glycerin must be
followed.

Industrial manufacturers of nitro almost always distill their glycerin
before using it. This puts their worried little heads to rest on the water
issue. It is pretty safe and easy to do, but the distilling equipment
described in the nitric acid section is needed to do a good job. An
alternative is to follow the procedure described just above for testing the
amount of water in the glycerin. If the temperature of the glycerin is held
in the 150øC range for an hour or so, almost all the water will boil out of
it. It will pick up a yellowish color during the heating process due to the
formation of acrolein compounds, but this does not cause any harm.
Industrial distilling techniques give the same yellow color. It just means
that the nitro will be yellow colored instead of the nice clear product
that could be had with better glycerin. If this clear product is desired, a
vacuum distillation of the glycerin will give it. If the experimenter has
experience doing vacuum distillations, this is the best route to follow. I
must warn that glycerin has a tendency to bump during vacuum distillations.
Adding a healthy amount of glass wool (angel's hair) to the distilling
flask will keep this under control. Boiling chips do not do a good job with
glycerin.
------------------
How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?


Explosives Archive (http://surf.to/alexplo)

[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited December 25, 2001).]

[10fingers]

There's some good info in that Uncle Fester text. Highly recomended.
The brand of glycerin that Wal-Mart sells does not have any water in it. If it says U.S.P. it will be free of water.

[kingspaz]

brainfever, that process should work but white fumes will probably not appear. the white fumes you see in the purification of H2SO4 is evaporating H2SO4. if you heat the mixture of water and glycerine to 100*C, all the water will boil away leaving pure glycerine since its boiling point is 290*C.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Arent the fumes actually water and SO3?

------------------
How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?


Explosives Archive (http://surf.to/alexplo)

[gorgio]

Today I tried the method using:

6ml H2SO4
4gm KNO3
1ml Glycerin

But the KNO3 did not dissolve in the H2SO4.

It was likewise not a liquid, more like honey with crystals. Only few fumes occured.

Then I added the Glycerin but there was no reaction, the breaker didn´t get hot or even warm. It only dissolved.

After a hour or so I put the whole into ice water but there was nothing more like some cristals on the botton, no NG. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

All the time the breaker was in ice water, could this be the problem? Was it too cold (I don´t think so)?

Can anybody help me???

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(The Forum is an English only site. Change your signature to english or delete it. NBK2000)

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 26, 2001).]

[Madog555]

i got a few questions about nitro headaches

1. how easy is it to get (breathe a tiny bit of vapor and your fucked?)
2. whats a good remedy for it? (i herd that a strong cup of coffee and two asprins works.)
3. how long do they last?
4. does caffine shrink the cells in your brain? if so then strong coffee or a cafine pill would work wonders on a nitro headache (nitro headaches are caused by the expansion of the cells in your brain)


------------------
"To live is to suffer, to survive... well thats to find meaning into suffering." -DMX

[kingspaz]

i thought they were something to do with the nitro glycerine thinning the blood...

[Madog555]

im 90% sure that it helps people with heart conditions because it expands your veins and valves in your heart. but in the case of a headache it expands cells in your brain

------------------
"To live is to suffer, to survive... well thats to find meaning into suffering." -DMX

[a_bab]

1. You can get the nitro-headache extremely easy, because you only need a few milligrams to be affected. You can get it by breathing the vapours, or thru skin. Or by mouth, as I did besides the first ways, in order to taste it. But that's another story :-)...
2. The good remedy with a strong cup of coffee and two aspirin tablets actually work. I don't know others, but it have to be some vessel constrictor effect.
3. The headache caused by breathing the vapours lasts less then the one caused by skin absorbtion. For me lasted about 12 hours, with vomisments. It was horrible ! But this was the first time, when I tasted NG and I worked without latex gloves. After that I was much carefully…
4. The headache is caused by expansion of the veins. NG works as a vasodilator, and the brain is the most sensitive, because the vessels press the tissue called 'duramater' just under the cranium bone and that's what causes the terrific headache. The other veins will expand too, but this is 'visible' only to a heart ill man.


------------------
Damn, I got a nitro-headache again...

http://move.to/pyromania

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Gorgio, it could have been a number of things, but I think you let it stand for too long. I never leave it longer then 10 minutes, and then I pour the solution in cold water ...
And the KNO3 never dissolves totally, it should get a bit warm when you add it to the acid though. Are you sure your acid is enough concentrated ?

About nitro-headaches:
1. It is possible to get it from vapors, but I only got a few from pure touch (cold climate around here, less vapor ??)
2. I didn't use a remedy, as it was long way from the pain I thought it would be ...
3. They can last very long, I guess it depends on how the ng entered your body, and how much of it did.
4. I never heard of anything that shrinks braincells ... (maybe it kills a few, so there is more room for the rest http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif )

It used to be prescribed to people with heart conditions, and Madog555 explanation seems to work for me.

On a question of my own:
-How much can you give a person (to give him/her a serious headache) without killing him/her ?

It could have tons of uses. You have the power to make someone feel miserable for quite a while ...
If I would put some on the door handle of the teachers lounge ... Maybe a day of could do me some good http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif
How long does it take to absord through skin ?


------------------
"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[Anthony]

Different people react differently to any given amount of nitro (like many things really). If you are exposed to it regularly you will build up a resistance and it won't affect you anymore.

I've had nitro headaches from vapour and also skin absortion (washing NG covered utensils), not too bad really. Mind you I spend nearly every waking moment with a headache so I'm used to them in a way.

Aspirin thins the blood, (thus lowering blood pressure) so it might actually make things worse.

IIRC Cocaine is a vaso-constrictor so should counter the effects of NG - expect some side affects though:)

[Jumala]

I have already scanned and OCR the important parts of Naoum´s method of making NG in lab amounts.

It is a approximately 40 KB large rtf file and I think it is to large to be posted here.

If you want to get the file post your email.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Why don't you put it on the forum ftp ??

If you don't plan to for any dark reason:
- brainfever_t1@hotmail.com


------------------
"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[a_bab]

Me too !
Please send it here : a_bab2002@yahoo.co.in
Thanx !

------------------
Damn, I got a nitro-headache again...

http://move.to/pyromania

[Madog555]

*

<small>[ June 25, 2002, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Madog555 ]</small>

[vulture]

If NG provokes the expansion of the veins and the brain cells, smoking a cigarette should help or taking a drug which contains nicotine.
Would morphine work? Maybe cause it lowers the hart rate and the blood pressure, thereby reducing the pain. Sirups for the throat usually contain morphine.

Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong.

[nbk2000]

Narcotic cough syrups contain codeine, not morphine.

NG expands blood vessels, which is why it's used for angina, a constriction of the blood vessels to the heart.

Caffeine and nicotine are constrictors, so they could be used. Aspirin works to relieve the pain, but I don't know about wheter it's a constrictor or not.

Take some aspirins and 200mg of caffeine, either a quart of coke or 2 No-Doze pills. It'll help.

Of course, you don't have to worry about it if you avoid contact with the nitro in the first place. Think of it as practice for the anthrax..http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

Also, Jumalas nitro scan has been upped to the FTP. Look in the "Upload" section.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited December 28, 2001).]

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Read my above post and replace "Uploads" with "E&W Related/Texts/Explosives"

Look around the site and you'll be amazed.

PS: If you can't access the FTP, get an FTP browser, there's plenty of them for free on the net.

[ January 01, 2002: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</p>

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Well, I gave it another go, this time I used:
-12 ml H2SO4
-10 gr KNO3
-2 ml glycerine

What to say ? All went fine, though the mixture got very crumbly toward the end, so that gave me a bit more problems then I was used to. I cooled it this time with a snow + water bath, instead of just putting it in the snow because I think it has better cooling abilities like this.

Now, the day after, I'm looking at the still a bit whitish NG in water, and I noticed that the water is getting a bit yellow !
It did that too (a lot more though) with the NG from the runaway, but I figured that was because the NG was made at an elevated temperature ...

Can someone explain this ?

PS: I'll try to scan it (put the scanner sideways) so you guys can see what I am talking about ...

Edit: Well, it didn't work all that well, but here it is: <a href="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/5063e672/bc/Yellow.jpg?bciOeh8Aam0wkdXE" target="_blank">http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/5063e672/bc/Yellow.jpg?bciOeh8Aam0wkdXE</a>

I keep getting a permission denied, but if it doesn't work, go to <a href="http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/brainfrags" target="_blank">http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/brainfrags</a> and look at the jpg's there.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: BrAiNFeVeR ]</p>

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Read the section in "uncle festers home workshop explosives" on NG and it will tell you everything you need to know.

[nbk2000]

Perhaps what's happening is that NOx is being dissolved into the water, giving it the tint.

Nitric goes from colorless to yellow to orange to red with increasing NOx concentrations.

And how much NG did you get (ml or gr) from your 2ml?

Also, have you tried exploding it yet?

BTW, is the light bulb in the wire handle what you made the nitro in? Because it looks a LOT like a crank pipe with frosties to me.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</p>

[BrAiNFeVeR]

LoL, no I did not make the NG in that, it was just something I tried on a cold long winter evening :)

[nbk2000]

So what IS it? Or would it be illegal to answer? ;)

[BrAiNFeVeR]

It is just a flask, nothing drug related :rolleyes:

About yields, I have a bit more then 2 ml NG from that, wich is not too good if I got it right ...
Care to give an explanation for those bad yields ?

[Anthony]

Considering that you're working in such small quantities, 2ml NG from 2ml gylcerine isn't bad. By far the greatest loss will come when you wash and neutralise it...

You can turn cloudy NG clear by washing it in a salt (NaCl) solution which will dehydrate it.

[nbk2000]

If I'm not mistaken, when glycerine is nitrated, it doesn't gain much in volume, but the weight almost doubles.

So for 2ml of glycerine, you get back 2ml of nitroglycerine. But for 2 grams of glycerine, you'll get back around 4 grams of nitroglycerine.

So maybe you should try weighing it before and after, hmmm?

Also, about the salt solution, make sure it's pure, plain NaCL. Not iodized, not sodium free, not sea salt, but PURE salt. And saturated, otherwise, if there's solid salt particles, you can get mechanical losses with some nitro sticking to the salt grains, or salt grains remaining in the nitro. Undersaturated just adds more water.

Maybe a chunk of oven-baked epsom salt (magnesium sulphate)?

It shouldn't be a problem, but you know how ticklish nitro can be, no sense adding "salt to the wounds" as it were.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

NBK, you must know NG is NOT that ticklish, AP is much more sensitive (especially to impact), and I feel safer around the 5 ml of NG, then around the 5 grams of AP I have around here.
I added the salt solution and indeed it cleared out very quickly, but it is still yellow though, is there a way to make it clear again ?

PS: This is my first reply with Lynx (linux browser) if it sucks, wait a while. I'll repair it when I get in windows.

[Anthony]

AP doesn't give me a headache :) I found NG soaked in tissue paper to be about as impact sensitive as AP.

At a guess, maybe a little Urea would help remove the NO2 (if that's what it is) from your NG?

Your post looks fine BTW.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

BrAiNFeVeR: when i make NG it always turns yellow a couple days after the salt wash. it is very well washed with bicarb and salt and then it turns yellow. after the salt wash its the NG is very clear and colourless. Very slightly slightly cloudy,then very milky then it turns yellow.

now i add a small amount of urea to mine and it clears it up permanantly. dont add too much, just a little. add a bit then wait awhile, then if its still yelow add more. dont know the percent of how much urea to put in thought.

[Microtek]

My NG is as clear as the glycerine it was made from and it stays that way for months. NG of this degree of purity is really not very sensitive to impact; on a drop hammer that I made AP was detonated by a 10 cm drop while NG ( and EGDN ) did not detonate when the hammer was dropped from 35 cm ( full drop height ). All manner of impurities such as NOx, salt crystals, etc. will sensitize the NG to impact.
My advice to avoid NOx is to avoid using too concentrated HNO3 - 62% is sufficient if you use slightly more H2SO4.

[nbk2000]

I was cooking lunch early tonight (I'm a night owl) and made some instant mashed potatos.

I like my potatos super thick. More like sculpting putty than mashed potatos.

And so, while I was mixing up a batch of potato putty, I got an idea.

[*NO! Don't say IT!*]

Yes, that's right....SPUD-4!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> :D

But seriously, instant mashed potatos are very light, hold a lot of liquid without seperating, and are moldable with a slightly sticky consistancy that I've been able to stick clumps on vertical glass, ceramic, wood, and metal surfaces. You can roll it into rods, patties, cubes, and other shapes and it will hold that shape.

Think about it. 3/4 cup of potato flakes weighs maybe 2 ounces. That holds more than a cup of liquid weighing 8 ounces. A 4 to 1 ratio. Now, NG being 1.5 or more in density, would make it 6 to 1, or 12 ounces out of 14 being NG. That's pretty damn high.

Now, of course, this all supposes that NG is absorbed by instant potato flakes, and that there's no adverse reaction with anything in them. But, being potato, I can't see how it would react adversly.

Please, don't think I'm going k3wl for suggesting this. I'm not planning on doing anything with peanut butter and ajax....yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Just an idea for those who make NG to give a whirl. Who knows, it may even work. And wouldn't that be great? A moldable, sticky S-4 (Spud-4)that you can use instead of the complicated C-4 mixtures.

PS: maybe some fat in the form of lard or butter would help the NG bind with the potato.

[DBSP]

The idea itself sound a bit sick but when you think about it it's really a good idea. Since potatoes contain a lot of starch they are able to pich up lots of liquid and bind it. If you could find good preportions it would be nice. And the NG might be desesitized by the potatoes. Thats a nother plus. :) Who knows maby you could make PONM (PotatOeNitroMethane) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[nbk2000]

Maybe a person could skip the NG and just nitrate the potato flakes directly. I mean, you can nitrate starch, sugar, wood, and a whole bunch of other things, so why not instant potato flakes.

Guarantee you that no one would suspect a big bowl of mashed potatos to be a bomb. :D

[Mr Cool]

I don't think starch would make gels with nitrate esters like it does with water, but if you had 50% potato flakes, 50% potato flake nitrate and then used this with your NG/EGDN then it could work.

NStarch and acetone is a lot less gel-like than NC and acetone, so I assume NS/NG will be more liquid than NC/NG, so it might need some un-nitrated potato flakes to help it keep its form. Or just add some ajax, that should work.. :)

[nbk2000]

Only one way to know for sure, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

"Uh...mom...where's the instant potato flakes?"

"Why? You still hungry? You just had dinner an hour ago."

"No, I just wanted to make some plastic explosive."

"Oh, OK. Top shelf on the left hand cabinet over the sink."

"Thanks ma."

"You're welcome."

Just another day in the life of a pyromaniac. :D

[ShockWave]

Today I tryed to set off annm/al again with NG but failed again :mad:

pictures from my NG results are online at my site.

I better can say: the NG did not went off, I did 2ml. of NG in a pencover and taped it together with a firecracker which contains 1,8gr flashpowder, I did it in 150gr. Annm/al and the annm/al did not detonate, the NG didn't detonate also, because otherwise the annm/al should detonate.

I tested my NG by putting one little drop in alluminiumfoil and put the foil together and hold it above a litte fire, and it detonated !! so the NG works.

So maybe flash is to weak to set off NG, how can I set off NG without a diffecult or dangerous primary? maybe by heating it with burning BP ?! :rolleyes:

I also find out that disolving the white NG in acetone is a much quiker way to get rid of the water which is in the white NG, I did it with salt but seems to take quit some time.

[Anthony]

You need 0.5gm of AP or HMTD. It's really not that scary.

[ShockWave]

I'm not afraid of making AP, but it is not storable.

I really want to make charges that will be storable, Anfos is, NG is and now something to detonate the NG, and not mercury fulminate or something

[NERV]

I dont see why your NG didnt go off from a firecracker, back in the day they set it off with cork filled with black powder. But it is probly better to go with AP, HMTD simply because it will always set your NG off.

[ShockWave]

flash burns much faster than BP and I don't understand why it does not go off, with a hammer blow it has got to detonate so I don't know why.

I will test if NG will kill fire or that it will detonate, I mean when something like BP is burning and you will drop some NG on it.

[Anthony]

Simply, it's hit and miss with LE, if you want it done properly you need to use a primary.

I don't see your arguement for storability, as ANNM is hardly storable. Also, a well made HMTD cap could be stored for a reasonable time, I'd expect at last 6-12 months.

[ShockWave]

well, would it be safe to store HMTD/AN ?!

Anfos is storable, I can store a booster of HMTD/AN with a HMTD blastingcap, but would that be safe ?! I guess not, and some flash taped to 2ml. NG is not that dangerous I think.

[kingspaz]

what the hell?!
NEVER, EVER store the detonator with the secondary charge! ALLWAYS have them separate until right before use then if the detonator goes off prematurely then the secondary will not go off too.
Shockwave, DO NOT make any explosives until you have read everything on the member websites and the archives. you obviously need to learn some more and have a greater understanding before attempting any explosives.

[Anthony]

Use a primary and you don't need the NG, reducing the amount of sensitive explosives you have to store/handle.

Not that either primary nor flash should be kept with the NG. As Kingspaz was saying, dets, boosters and charges should all be kept apart.

I'm not even sure where the mention of HMTD/AN came from? :confused:

I agree that some reading may be in order.

[ShockWave]

Where do I write that I want to store the charges together !?
Anyway, That is not what I meant.

I really won't store them together.

Look, I want to make some charge's, so when I want to blow up something, I don't have to handle with old NG or evaporate acetone from the NG, or make a batch AP, which will take hours, So I want to make some primary that is storable and the secundary is ANFO, But to detonate the ANFO, HMTD will not work, That's where HMTD/AN came from, and I can store the HMTD, but then I still have to work with HMTD which would be 6 months old.

Or isn't it that dangerous when mixing 6 months old HMTD with some AN ?! than I don't have to make NG anymore and I don't have to search anymore, and my problem would be solved :) :) :)

[KinePak]

This may be a stupid remark, but the NG we are talking about is Nitroglycerin correct? If so, the blasting caps that I buy from my explosives dealer are NG, and I can set those off with just a simple blasting fuse.

ON the side of my caps it says Warning NITROGLYCERIN, and when you look into the cap, its a yellow waxy powder. I dont know what else looks like that that is a primary

They are #8 Blasting Caps

<small>[ October 27, 2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: KinePak ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

NG with just a fuse that doesn't sound right, from what I've heard NG needs a cap just like every other explosive. (except primarys)

[Anthony]

I guess the caps could be a base charge of NG, with a primary on top. It's be a bit unsual, but I guess it'd work.

I guess you could make HMTD/AN with 6 months old HMTD, but I don't like working with such a larage amount of primary anyway.

Here's what I suggest you do: 0.5-1gm HMTD cap, ANNM booster, ANFO seconday. The cap is stored complete, the booster is stored as powdered, oven dried AN in a sealed container. The NM is stored in a cool place protected from light. The secondary is just stored as a sack of AN and a jerry can of diesel.

The weakest link in the storability of the lot would be the blasting cap, probably followed by the nitromethane.

I don't really see why it all has to be ready to go in a moments notice, especially when you're working with limited materials.

[ShockWave]

When I want to make a charge to have some fun, then I am busy in the kitchen and there is everywhere nasty shit, I talk about AN on the floor, Aceton smell from AP, and lot's of other stuff, I think I will make about 5, 1gr. HMTD sealed in a very small pencover, with a glowingwire which is taped to avoid contact between the copperwire and the HMTD, to the glowingwire inside the tape I think I will tape a matchhead so that there will be a small fire in the HMTD, these 1gr. blastingcaps I will store them in a bucket filled with sand, you never know.

And the rest is easy, so when I have done this, My girl can not complain about her headache anymore. a bucket filled with 10kg of AN should not be dangerous to store I think, and kinepack can be mixed before I want to blast without nasty fumes or smells.

Now I know that I don't need the NG anymore for detonator I can do something else with it, testing on something strong like metal pipes I think. :)

[ShockWave]

I did test my NG by putting a drop in alluminiumfoil as you can read above but today I tryed to detonate it like you guys said, I can tell you the whole story but here is my link including the pictures.

<a href="http://apanshock.tripod.com/NitroglycerineAP.htm" target="_blank">http://apanshock.tripod.com/NitroglycerineAP.htm</a>

Why didn't detonate the NG !?

Maybe it contains a little bit of water (which did not) then it still should be detonatable with 0,5gr AP.

[Southern Warrior]

KIFE has what seems to be a good proceedure for making NG using 70% Nitric Acid. In KIFE, he says to pour 100mL Nitric Acid, 70% in a glass canning (Mason) jar and add 150mL 98% Sulfuric Acid, and to place the mix in a salt/ice bath to cool. While the acids cool, place 80mL Glycerine in a measuring container and place it in the freezer compartment of a refrigerator.

When the Glycerine is as thick as Karo syrup and the acids are zero degrees C, to slowly add the glycerine to the acids so that it floats on the surface of the acids. (If red fumes appear, dump mix into a container containing a mix of crushed ice and water, and leave the area immediatly.) With great care, vigorously stir the mix for 15 seconds and the whole mix should be poured into a container of mixed water with cracked ice, taking care not to bump the lips of the two containers together.

Them the procedure goes into all the steps for washing and neutralization of the Nitro.

Also, if you are going to store NG, the addition of 25% acetone to the NG will lower the sensitivity of NG to shock.

Also, Nitroglycerine is used to treat angina, a heart problem. My grandmother used to take it for her angina before she passed away.

<small>[ October 25, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Southern Warrior ]</small>

[Anthony]

Shockwave, I am at loss to explain why your NG did not detonate. I have personally detonated NG soaked into powdered NH4NO3 (so, desensitized to a degree) with less AP than you have there.

In my case, the detonator was inserted into the "dynamite" whereas I suspect you taped yours to the outside of the NG container? Still, this should have given a detonation.

My suggestion would be to use a larger amount of AP. Say go to the extreme of say 2gm, and I would be *very* surprised if you did not get a detonation. Then work backwards using less amounts of AP until you find the minimum amount required for *your* applications.

[ShockWave]

I found out why it did not detonate, there was still some water and/or acetone in it, after it totally evaporated it was pure I think because thise time it worked very wel.

I'm happy with it because now AP is history for me !! :D :D

<a href="http://apanshock.tripod.com/FlashNG.htm" target="_blank">http://apanshock.tripod.com/FlashNG.htm</a>

[ShockWave]

BTW, more updates at my site now.

the burried APAN has been detonated
and the 4kg charge ANNM/AL is online(no sound and no color :mad: )

but i am working on it.

[andreas]

since you're ng is getting yellow I think nitogenoxides are forming wich is a very dangerus thing to have happening to you're ng.
I suggest washing it some more

[ShockWave]

I don't know if it is possible to see it on the picture but it is a bit yellow, not very yellow, how dangerous could that be

[Anthony]

Well it's likely to get worse over time, which isn't compatible with your storage ideas!

Did you wash it in multiple, alternating solutions of sodium bicarbonate and fresh water?

[ShockWave]

I washed it about 8 times with lots of fresh water, next time i'll use the sodium bi carbonate also.

Today I tryed to set off 300gr ANNM/AL but did not totally detonate, annm/al was still in the mud and the the big boom was missing, at the link you can see the pictures below.

What went wrong? 1gr AP wil set off 300gr annm/al and 3ml NG did not ?!?!? btw, the NG went off that's for sure !!

<a href="http://apanshock.tripod.com/FlashNG.htm" target="_blank">http://apanshock.tripod.com/FlashNG.htm</a>

the detonater was in the middle of the annm/al, and lots of mud was on top of it to tamp it very well. but no full detonation. :mad:

[kingspaz]

shockwave, can you tell us how you constructed the cap? if it was the one made from flash and NG then its likely the NG detonated with a low VoD and therefore did not produce a powerful enough shock wave to initiate the ANNM/Al.

also what ratios did you use for the ANNM/Al. you must provide some detail if you want anything more than a random guess.

<small>[ November 02, 2002, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[ShockWave]

the detonater you can see at the link above.

The annm/al is good, I have done this many many times and when I burrie them they always detonated. I always do 2.5 NM, so 100gr Nm is at 250gr AN and a spoon AL.

I think maybe what went wrong, The flash detonated the NG but before the NG detonates maybe the Flash spread out the ANNM/AL, but that seems to be impossible but that is the only think that come's up in my mind.

And I think that the NG is a good detonation, I tested it on a steel plate and the damage is just as worse as NG detonates by AP.

[ShockWave]

I did all my NG that I had standing in a plastic tube and detonated it with AP at steel but I had expected more damage.

<a href="http://apanshock.tripod.com/15mlNG.htm" target="_blank">http://apanshock.tripod.com/15mlNG.htm</a>

[Jacob Kell]

I searched a bit and didn't find the specific information I am looking for. What I want to know is if glycerin is heated to remove water from it, how will it affect the quality of NG, i mean the storage stability? I read acrolein can be formed in it, and thats why it becomes yellow. As the glycerin I can buy is always runny and not concentrated, I have to remove water somehow. So is it bad for the final product? Has someone experience with this?

[Mumble]

I think it would be best to remove the water. I've heard and read that to get glycerine as dry as possible, heat to 170C for three hours or so. You don't have to worry about the acrolein unless you get the temperature rather high. The decomposition doesn't start until at least 200. Any acrolein that does form wouldn't be there for long anyway as it boils at 52-55C. Acrolein usually requires catalysts to form to any appreciatable degree. As long as it stays clear, I see no problems. I can't really forsee any adverse reactions.

[FinnBell]

The other day me and a few friends detonated a 75 gram charge of nitro in a parking lot. The straight liquid nitro was put in a small aspirin bottle then before detonated with 3 grams of AP. We placed it near one of those long cement parking things. I forget what the hell they're called but you know. But it was pretty sweet. Loud as shit and it blew quite a bit of cement off exposing the steel rods inside it. We went back the next day to take some pics cause we forgot the camera that night.
The 75 grams was obtained by about 100ml of glycerin via the S2H04+NH4N03 method. I used Rooto drain cleaner which has always worked great for me. The glycerin I used was bought from a pharmacy and says "pure glycerin" on the bottle. So considering I'm not using any HNO3 this is an okay yeild..But I was reading something the other day that said better yields can be obtained if "anhydrous glycerin" is used. Now I thought that all glycerin was anhydrous but from this thing I was reading that's apparently not true. So I went out to another pharmacy and bought another bottle but this time, this one says "anhydrous glycerin" on the back. So I take it there IS a difference, although I searched and didn't find anything about this. I'll eventually test it but just wanted to know if anyone knew anything about this.

[The_Duke]

You have to be joking!:rolleyes:

One contains water and the other does not. That is the only difference between the two.

If make Nitroglycerin with mixed acids or H2SO4 and a Nitrate and you use glycerin which contains large amounts of water, then the dehydrating action of the Sulfuric acid will create large amounts of heat which make the reaction harder to control and increase the chances of a runaway reaction. It is general practice to use almost pure glycerin.

[FinnBell]

First of all, no, I dont have to be joking Duke. Second, they Both say pure glycerin on them, but one says "anhydrous glycerin" and the other does not. So once again, whats the difference? Cause I know anhydrous means its without water but if they both say pure then what?

[al93535]

I think you are confusing purity with concentration. Something can be anhydrous but still contain sediments, minerals, or other impurities. Just like regeant grade acids can be very very pure, but only be 70% concentrated. So it would seem both of your bottles are free from substances other then glycerin. ;)

[FinnBell]

Ahhh, thanks al93535, you explained that very well. I appreciate it. Alright, I know what my yields usually are with the other stuff so now I'll try a new batch and see what kind of difference there is. I'll post my results tonight maybe tomorrow.

[FinnBell]

Oh, and btw, if anyone is interested, you can check out the pics of the detonation here.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b119/Finnbell30/

[nbk2000]

Perhaps going back to the scene of the crime the VERY NEXT NIGHT isn't such a good idea. ;)

It's not like the concrete is going anywhere, so a week or two would be better. You didn't get busted this time, but next time? Maybe...

Anhydrous glycerin can be made by gently heating the glycerine to at least 150&deg;C until no more water vapor condenses on an ice-cold container held over it. Or, you could pour it out in a shallow pan in a casserole dish with boiled sulfuric in it, to act as a dissicator.

[FinnBell]

So why not just use CACl2 for a dessicant? It would seem to me to be much much easier than boiled acid. Safer and cheaper too. Oh and btw, that place is so secluded the chances of anyone ever going out there are highly unlikely, I could set off a charge 10 times that size and nobody would be around to hear it. We've got all our bases covered. ;) (its been our blasting site for quite some time now) It also has some kind of rock quarry nearby that does blasting on an almost daily basis too.

[nbk2000]

Your dissicant must be a more powerful attractant for water than the material you're trying to dry. ;)

[FinnBell]

Okay now I'm confused, because I use CACl2 for a dessicant with my finished nitro, but youre saying it wont work with glycerin? Does it become less hydroscopic or something once its nitrated?

[The_Duke]

Yes, that is exactly what happens.

[Controlled Chaos]

I just tried the method for nitroglycerin using the following:

-20 ml H2SO4 98%
-17 gr KNO3
-4 ml glycerin

I raised the amount of chemicals to nitrate 60ml of glycerin using 300ml of sulfuric acid, 255 grams of potassium nitrate. The acid was chilled in the freezer over night and 300ml was measured out and placed into an ice bath. I proceeded to add bits of KNO3 at a time. When I added the first portion the mix foamed and gave of white vapors. So I stirred this until all the chucks were dissolved and it had cooled. After adding almost all of the KNO3 I was stirring the syrupy solution and and it almost instantly solidified. Throughout the addition of the KNO3 the white fumes continued to rise off, I did allow it too cool adding small amounts of the nitrate salt at a time. I was never able to add all 255 grams of KNO3 because it turned solid on me. The whole addition of the potassium nitrate took about an hour, I didn't want to rush things and cause a runaway.

I didn't see this nitrating solution fit for making nitroglycerin so I decided to add a little more H2SO4 and threw some cotton in it, hoping to produce some guncotton. This sat for about an hour and was stirred. The white fumes continued to hover out during this phase too. I added water and the solution warmed up, I filtered out the so called guncotton and neutralized it with a baking soda/water solution. I ripped off a piece of the cotton which did seem more brittle than normal cotton and dried it off with paper towels. I lit it and it didn't really burn well. There was no flash like typical guncotton.

Throughout these processes I did use an ice bath and kept the temperature below 20 C. The fumes smelled like you were at a public pool and the water was full of chlorine. What were the white fumes and what may have went wrong for this synthesis?

I am going to try the Ammonium Nitrate method next. I have heard ammonium nitrate is much easier to work with.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[simply RED]

Use lead or barium nitrate. Calculate 3times molar excess of c.H2SO4, add a few drops of 60%HNO3 in the mix to start the reaction, heat it in boiling water bath for 15 mins, cool and decant. Works well.

[Bert]

Are you suggesting heating the entire batch in a boiling water bath? Or just the nitrating mixture of H2SO4 and nitrate?

And what is your reason for suggesting these alternate (and more toxic)nitrates?

[nbk2000]

Probably because they form insoluble salts that'll precipitate out of the solution, leaving an anhydrous mixed acid ready for nitration.

[Bert]

Will the precipitated insoluble Lead or Barium sulfate take up some of the water and bind it as water of crystallization, and thereby provide a less dilute mix than one prepared from nitrates such as KNO3, NaNO3 or NH3NO3 whose sulfates are more soluble-

[nbk2000]

I would certainly think so, though the availability of lead/barium nitrate is much less than the common fertilizer nitrates.

[Bert]

Barium nitrate is quite common in the inventories of pyrotechnists- It's used in many green star formulations, flash powders and some silver glitter formulations. I buy it in 50# bags from Service Chemicals, the shipping was actually more than the price of the chemical itself last time. Lead nitrate is a different story! Fortunately, a member gave a kitchen synthesis from OTC (or out of the junkyard) recently... 'http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/chemicals-apparatus-equipment/1845-lead-nitrate-acetate.html#post31763'

[Aeed]

Nitroglycerine, Nitroglycol

I wondering why all one say that NG unstable what's suppose that mean?
Is that meaning it can detonate by itself without warning (like dense red fumes)?

If that true who can I avoid this?

By the way I DO NOT try to make explosion I just hear that you can make super propellant with Nitroglycerine, Able to fly over the continents

Excess my bad English

[Controlled Chaos]

Interesting method, but why not just use the HNO3 and H2SO4 nitration mix? Will the Lead/Barium nitrates offer a better yield for nitroglycerin, or are the chemicals easier/cheaper to obtain?

I am looking for chemicals that can be found locally and bought publicly. I got my hands on some ammonium nitrate and plan on using it for my first production of NG.

Are the white fumes from my previous attempt normal or did something go wrong? I don't want any problems occurring that will mess up my next attempt.

Thanks everyone for your input! My pyro stomach is beginning to starve from the lack of things that go BOOM!

+++++++++++

I like your user name...really rolls off the tongue...0162017402290215.

Can I call you 0'5 for short?

(Zero feet, 5 inches...short...get it? ;) :D)

NBK

[Cindor]

I wondering why all one say that NG unstable what's suppose that mean?
Is that meaning it can detonate by itself without warning (like dense red fumes)?

When we are talking about the unstability of a compound we are refered at the easly-breakable bounds of it. NG is very unstable, so if it is heated, hited, etc. it will decompose (explosively).

In other compounds the unstability is so big that the bounds of the compound are breaked just with the inner force of it, "apparently" exploding with no reason.

Then there is the unstability caused by contamination for example... like traces of acid (HNO3/H2SO4). This contamination makes the bonds easy to break, because the contamination reacts with compound exchanging groups.

If NG have trace of acid, it may explode with apparently no reason.

[Controlled Chaos]

I am glad you like the name NBK. :p Feel free to call me whatever you please. Haha

At the time I was signing up for these forums, the name "Pyrotecx" that I use for everything was taken (go figure). So I got mad and used half of the password to my computer which is the long series of numbers. It actually does mean something believe it or not (Hint: translate using Alt + 4 digits function of Windows). ;)

Anyway, Aeed, perhaps you are talking about a nitration runaway when you speak of "dense red fumes" which can occur during the process of making NG if the reaction gets to hot, possibly causing the NG in the reaction vessel to detonate due to it's unstable and weak bonded properties.

[c.Tech]

At the time I was signing up for these forums, the name "Pyrotecx" that I use for everything was taken (go figure). So I got mad

That was also a problem for me when I signed up, although I thought up of a name which I’m going to stick to after going through others. Even if it doesn’t sound that appealing.

I was going to name myself Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia which is apparently the fear of long words :p but it wouldn’t fit.

Maybe by deleting the old banned members names (with 0 posts) we could free a lot of usernames for the use of the new members.

[atlas#11]

I'd be willing to bet his name is an IP. Of course replacing all but the first zero with decimals and ommiting the first zero.

Just a thought...

Anyways, NG probably wont detonate under runaway conditions unless your making gallons of it at a time. It takes a significant ammount of heat shock to cause a detonation, having a runaway only screws up your yields and produces toxic fumes that arn't all that user-friendly. Still, there's always that one time.

[black mamba]

Unless you think he is lying, Atlas stated that “It actually does mean something believe it or not (Hint: translate using Alt + 4 digits function of Windows)." I just thought I’d clear that up.

[nbk2000]

0162017402290215 = ¢®å×

[Controlled Chaos]

Ding Ding. NBK wins! ¢®å× it is. The whole password was actually "¢®å× tHIS¡".

I agree with c.Tech. Away with all the banned and unactive members, rawr. I want my name back.

[Roy Paci]

Headaches does not respond well to morphine. If I remember well, there seem to be no certain explanation about this question.
The pain in headaches is due to the peculiarity of the brain vessels system. It is regulated mainly from NO, that is the strongest vasodilator that our body produces. It acts on muscular artherioles.NO action is amazing powerful but lasts quickly. Then, i'm not an expert in chemistry but I suppose that NG provides a costant deliver o new NO to the blood and hence the brain(like it does for the coronary artheries in the treatment of coronaropathy)...
The massive increase of the blood volume in the brain make it streches the inner layer of the "meningis", the piamater, the duramater is well fixed on the skull's inner wall, not able to be stretched. Brain is the processor of the nerves, in a way, but it hasn't nerves in itself.

Aspirin inhibits the intrinsic way of the coagulation sistem.

Nicotin and coffee should do... But in the other hand caffein elevates the pressure...

[megalomania]

There is a security feature of the software that if you enter a username with an illegal charachter, or an email it does not like, you get the "your username is already taken." This is intended to prevent trolls from systematically figuring out what is legal and what is not, although it can be extremly annoying if you have a particular email because you could flog that horse forever and think every username in the world was taken.

[Controlled Chaos]

*groans* ahh, the headache...

The H2SO4 was cooled and Ammonium Nitrate added slowly. White fumes were still produced throughout this procedure too. I figure this is normal and guess they are just SO3 fumes. Virtually all of the ammonium nitrate dissolved and the addition took about and hour (had to run back and forth out of the garage when the white fumes came out after each small addition. Learned that these fumes do not feel good to breath). I added 60ml of glycerin in about 30 minutes with no overheating problems at all, staying below 10C the whole time. I then took it out of the ice bath stirring for 25 minutes and added it to 1000ml of cold water. After decanting the water off and adding more and then adding a baking soda solution I poured it into a saturated salt solution for dehydration.

It was such a relief to see a pool of nitroglycerin blobbing around at the bottom of the jar. The salt solution was sucking the diffused yellow color out of the NG nicely... Then the headache came. A good sign that the synthesis was successful, but such a pain. I guess it absorbed through my skin after I took the gloves off and started cleaning the other jars and equipment.

Now I wait for the NG to purify and then get to detonate it :) I have about 60ml, just the amount of glycerin I put in.

[mike16]

60 multiply by 1.59= 95.4grams.:cool:

The last time I tried to make NG with KNO3/H2SO4 it completly failed, I ended up with not a single drop of NG.
I think this was because the KNO3 was not dissolving into the H2SO4 very well, there were loads of hard lumps of KNO3 in the mix.

With a little experience from making HNO3 from a KNO3/H2SO4 mix, when this mix is heated up to around 60 degrees celcius, the lumps of KNO3 tend to completly dissolve into the acid, so maybe if you prepared the nitrating mix, added a little excess of H2SO4 and then heated it up as if you were going to make HNO3, then when all the KNO3 has completly dissolved forming a nice yellow HNO3/H2SO4 nitrating mix, cool it down in an ice bath.

I will try this method when I get some more KNO3.

[Bert]

Research nitrogen oxide(s) (NOX) before you do another synthesis. Those fumes can do a LOT worse than feel bad to breathe. It's no fun to die because you killed your lungs, and you won't know how badly you hurt yourself until it is far too late. There is a bit of discussion of this related to the picric acid synthesis thread. Start here: http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/high-explosives/107-picric-acid-9.html#post58273

[c.Tech]

'http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/enfuem/1996/10/i03/abs/ef9501861.html'

Seems like an activated carbon filter in a gas mask wont cut it to filter all the gas through, though it would help.

[Controlled Chaos]

The fumes that came off were not red/brown. They were just white wisps rolling out of the jar as I added Ammonium Nitrate to the H2SO4. Are you guys saying these were NOx fumes, or are the SO3 fumes?

Mike16, I would just recommend using ammonium nitrate. It is So much easier and you won't have to screw with the clumping problem. Even if you were able to successfully nitrate the glycerin, it would be a pain to extract and separate it. With the AN method you are able to simply decant the water.

After two days of sitting in the salt water solution the nitroglycerin was still murky and salt crystals were beginning to form on the surface of the water and on the surface of the NG at the bottom. So I just added water to the salt water to dissolve the rest of the salt and poured that off. After adding more and more water to get rid of all the salt, I decanted as much remaining water off as possible and used an eye dropper to get even more off. When I had as much as I could possibly get off by hand, the NG was still murky and had a layer of water on it. I poured this into a shallow nonstick pan and turned the stove on the lowest possible setting. I placed the pan of watery NG on the stove top at about 120 F. After about 30 minutes the NG was clear and the formed water blobs on top had evaporated. Now I have pure Nitroglycerin :D

mike16, 60ml was an estimate. After all was done, I had 70ml of NG. Yeilding more Nitroglycerin then glycerin used is a first I have heard when using the ammonium nitrate salt method :cool:

[c.Tech]

The fumes that came off were not red/brown. They were just white wisps rolling out of the jar as I added Ammonium Nitrate to the H2SO4. Are you guys saying these were NOx fumes, or are the SO3 fumes?
IIRC, NO is clear, NO2 is red/brown, H2SO4 fumes are white. So I'm assuming you would have had SO3/H2SO4/NO gasses and fumes coming off it (NO not as likely IMO.)

Even if there isn't NOx gasses in the fumes the SO3 and H2SO4 fumes can do quite some damage and are suspected of causing cancer.

In short, do not breathe.

[fiknet]

The white fumes are mainly HNO3 IIRC, they're perfectly normal and it's a good thing because it means that the synthesis is working and you are getting strong nitric acid forming.

What I normally do while adding the NH4NO3 is add it slowly and stir, then when the fumes start forming stand back about 5 meters and catch my breath.

Just don't breath them and you will be fine.

[Controlled Chaos]

If there are fumes rolling off anything it's safe to assume they are not safe to breath. I didn't exactly stand above the jar and inhale the stuff coming out. I just accidentally caught some in a few of the short breaths I was taking while running back and forth. I tried masking them with my shirt which is probably not sufficient, but oh well. :)

fiknet, I learned your sprinting method the second time around. Works well for those of us without fume hoods ;)

[Cobalt.45]

Get a snorkel. Go down to Home Depot and buy a length of cheap plastic tubing sufficient to reach fresh air.

Won't help your eyes, though.

[GTOzoom]

...(i dont know how much more the guy in the shop will sell me before he gets suspicious-lets face it, it hasnt got that many legit uses)



I know that I'm a little late on this one...ok, alot late. But I had a similar predicament when buying nitric from sargent welch(I am not an educational institution so they checked into it a bit)

I ended up telling them that I was starting a small business gold plating audio wires. After i told them that on the phone I actually did end up trying to plate one.(didn't turn out so well :-\ ) That would be a legit reason you would need large amounts of HNO3, and a simple google search by a suspicious dealer would end any suspicion they might have. No more problem.

Hope this helps anyone else having troubles.

cheers!

-GTO

[wymanthescienceman]

GTO - Did Sargeant Welch actually sell you some HNO3? I've been looking and looking and most places will only sell to educational institutions or businesses. I want to get some to recover gold form circuit boards and processors. I figured even though I have a legit excuse, they could still only sell to those places.

[Bert]

Get a snorkel. Go down to Home Depot and buy a length of cheap plastic tubing sufficient to reach fresh air.
Sorry, this is not likely to work. A length of tubing wide enough to breathe through will have too large a volume relative to the tidal air capacity of your lungs.

If you don't believe me, check your normal breath volume by water displacement then calculate the volume of ten feet of 1" ID tube.

[nbk2000]

If the tube is for intake only, then it wouldn't be a problem.

If, however, you're trying to exhale out through the same tube you are breathing in from, then your expired air will accumulate in the tube if it has any significant volume, leading to eventual suffocation. :p

[GTOzoom]

GTO - Did Sargeant Welch actually sell you some HNO3? I've been looking and looking and most places will only sell to educational institutions or businesses. I want to get some to recover gold form circuit boards and processors. I figured even though I have a legit excuse, they could still only sell to those places.

This was a couple years ago, but yes they did. They claim to only sell it to educational facilities, but I told them i was refered to them by a professor at a local collage and told them my 'intended uses' as a graduate project, and they ended up sellng me 2.5liters. This was pre-9/11 though, so I'm not sure if it would be that easy anymore.

[Cobalt.45]

Sorry, this is not likely to work. A length of tubing wide enough to breathe through will have too large a volume relative to the tidal air capacity of your lungs.
"In" through the mouth, "Out" through the nose.

Sorry I didn't explain the entire concept.:rolleyes:

[mike16]

Hi guys,

I've just made a new batch of NG with distilled HNO3 with great results! :)

I started making the HNO3 3 days ago, making 20ml a day from a KNO3/H2SO4 mix, the HNO3 was around 95% with a yellow colour.

I used 55ml 95-98% HNO3, 110ml 98% H2SO4, and 27.5ml of glycerine.
The yield was 40ml NG. :)

Usually when I use 70% HNO3, I only get back the amount of glycerine I put in, I think I'll start to use my own home distilled HNO3 from now on.

I can make 25ml 95+% HNO3 a day using the pot-in-pot method as described in the "HNO3 the easy way" thread. :)

[nbk2000]

If you can already buy 70% NA, it's much easier to mix it 50/50 with your sulfuric, and distill that, which will result in 98%+ NA. :)

[Kleng]

If you can already buy 70% NA, it's much easier to mix it 50/50 with your sulfuric, and distill that, which will result in 98%+ NA. :)

You may have to distill the liquid a couple of times before reaching 98%+ purity.
I tried using 62% NA and destill together with sulfuric acid (probably a bit weak, only distilled by boiling of water) and I obtained about 80% NA the first time, and 98% the second time.

[GTOzoom]

I am going to make NG for the first time either this weekend or next. I have been around the forum for a while and I have successfully made TCAP and RDX.


I was hoping for some advise before I go at it.
OK, first off, I have drain cleaner sulphuric acid, so i was going to just boil it down. I also have both NaNO3 and KNO3. Is one preferable to the other?

Also, it looks like the amount of chemicals used vary greatly depending on who you ask. One recipe calls for 5g of KNO3, 6mL H2SO4, and 1mL glycerol, and the other calls for 20mL H2SO4, 18g KNO3, and 4mL Glycerol. (I want to scale it up to about 8mL) Which one is right?

I will be using pure glycerol, and I have all the glassware needed. I will be doing the lab with a partner, outside on a workbench. I wrote up this procedure so I wouldnt forget anything:

Cool H2SO4 and Glycerol overnight in fridge.
Put both in cooler filled with ice and bring to ‘lab.’
Set up apparatus (table, separatory funnel, emergency ice bath, etc.)
Prepare an ice/water/salt bath.
Add the cool H2SO4 to round bottom flask.
Slowly add all the KNO3 to the flask (White fumes may appear)
Stir until a homogenous mix forms. Cool to 15°C
SLOWLY drip the glycerol down the side of the flask (adding process should take about an hour)
Stir carefully without touching sides or bottom with thermometer (Acidic NG is VERY unstable)
Let the mix sit for at least 15 minutes and let it cool to 15°C
Pour the mix into its own volume of distilled ice water.
Add the mix to a separatory funnel and let sit for 5 minutes.
Decant the NG into round bottom flask.
Clean separatory funnel thoroughly
Add (slightly warmed) 4% Sodium Bicarbonate solution to flask and swirl for 5-10 minutes
Add to separatory funnel, wait 5 minutes, and decant NG again.
Repeat process 3 times with warm water.
Wash it once again with a strong sodium chloride solution and let sit for an hour.
Separate the NG again, and add a small amount of urea.
Test acidity of NG with litmus paper.
If it is still acidic, repeat the cleaning process until neutral.
At this point it should be a clear, white liquid.


Any help would be appreciated.

[nbk2000]

Be sure you've cooked your nitrate in an oven at 250&deg;F until it's anhydrous.

[knowledgehungry]

It is not a bad idea to make sure your Glycerine is dry either, I would recommend heating that in an oven too. Make sure you keep the temparature low, Glycerine decomposes at roughly 280 degrees Celsius into Acrolein:eek: , so be careful.

I would use the ratio with more nitrate and H2SO4, NG is not particularly soluble in HNO3 so having excess HNO3 is just a waste of chemicals not a reduction in yield. You will have a better yield(in terms of glycerine) if you use more nitrate/acid. Both ratios will give you NG, the main difference is yield, and since you are only trying to make a small amount, yield is not critical as long as it is half-way decent.

[fiknet]

Also IIRC using KNO3 in the NG synthesis creates a thick sludge that is a bit difficult to work with as some of the byproducts from the KNO3 don't like the low temperatures.

[stupid939]

I have dreamed about making NG with three kinds of nitrating mixtures. They were:

H2SO4 + HNO3
H2SO4 + KNO3
H2SO4 + NH4NO3.

I used about 88% H2SO4 for the KNO3 and NH4NO3 reactions. The KNO3 mix became so thick that I could not even stir in the glycerin. The NH4NO3 mix worked well, and because of the % of H2SO4, I only got about half the amount of NG as the glycerin that I put in (and because of the dye in the H2SO4, my NG was brown, but still works).

In the H2SO4 + HNO3 reaction, I used 78% H2SO4 and 60% HNO3. The reaction yielded about the same amount of NG as the glycerin that I put in. It was hard for me to get a hold of the HNO3, but It is well worth it. I would advise that you try to find it, or make your own.

A 100% yield in making NG would give you 2.49 times the amount of glycerin used. So the higher the % of acids, the better the yield would be. If you can't get a hold of HNO3, I would advise using NH4NO3 instead of KNO3. The instant cold packs work fine for this.

Oh, and check out Brainfever's page to see the ways he does it.
http://www.geocities.com/brainfevert/home.html?200617

[GTOzoom]

Thanks for all the help guys...

ok, i ordered a separatory funnel and some ammonium nitrate from united nuclear so i can do it with the AN method instead of KNO3, it sounds like its much easier doing it this way.

Now i'm assuming there is no problem simply scaling up the ratios by a multiple of 10?
This is what I will use
60mL H2SO4
40g NH4NO3
10mL Glycerol

Also, the glycerol I have claim's to be anhydrous, and it is a thick clear liquid, so i'm pretty sure I'm ok as far as that goes. But with the AN, don't they coat the prills with some mix to try and prevent it from being used in ANFO? Should I simply boil the AN beforehand?

again...thanks for the help

[EDIT] Also, the Sulphuric acid I have is just a concentrated drain cleaner H2SO4, it is yellowish and fairly thick. I am going to boil it to see if that gets rid of anything else in it. I could also get small amounts (less than 50mL) of 1 molar-lab grade sulphuric if needed.

[Cindor]

To get clean and pure AN you have to wash your coated AN with EtOH/MeOH and then dissolve the AN in water, filtrate it and recrystallize it (in an oven or something).

UTFSE !

[stupid939]

It would be easier to get the instant ice packs (make sure they say ammonium nitrate, water) and use those. It is pretty pure, and you just have to grind it to a powder.

You don't have to use a separatory funnel, but It will make it easier. Also when you water down the acid mix and neutralize it, it is easier to add a little bit of ammonia to break the water tension (in case there are blobs of NG on top of the water).

As for the Sulfuric acid, I would recommend boiling it, but once it is boiling, add a little bit of 30% H2O2 until it is fairly clear. It might turn dark again, but it will clear up while it cools down. This will oxidize the dyes in the acid and it should become pretty clear. If you can't get a high % H2O2, you may be able to use 3%. Good luck

[Chris The Great]

My AN seems to have a few % impurities. I just separate the caked shit from the top of the nitrating acid before using it, it isn't a problem, and a lot easier than recrystallizing and drying the AN. And if I don't get rid of it, there still is no problem.

I usually swirl the nitrating acid in a round flask, if it's under half full of mixture it is mixed very well and easily by doing this. It's also a hell of a lot easier to mix the acid and AN, seal the container, and chill that in the freezer than to cool the acid, mix, and wait for it cool a bit. It's thick but not enough to prevent swirling or stirring of the mixture, and the fact it is very cold means that you can do the procedure in less time.

I'd use 12ml of glycerin with the above ratios of acid and nitrate myself.

[knowledgehungry]

If you are ordering AN from UN then I would assume that it does not have a coating to prevent its use in ANFO. That is normally done with fertilizer grade AN bought in bulk, it would not be done for a small amount sold by a pyrotechnic supply company. That should be pure AN. I would recommend using instant cold packs, it is much cheaper and the government isn't watching who buys from Rite-Aid yet. Not that it really matters, if the feds want you they will find you.

I would still recommend drying your AN prior to use. I would not worry about the impurities in your drain cleaner H2SO4 SWIM used it for his synthesis of NG and had no problems. You will want to concentrate your H2SO4 by boiling however as drain cleaner is in the low 90%'s and you want it in the high 90%'s.

[GTOzoom]

Ok, so the shipment from united nuclear is finally going to be in on Thursday, which leaves either this weekend or next to perform the experiment. I don't have a lab to do it in so i was going to set up a table in the woods. There will be little to no wind and the forecast predicts about 27 degrees. I don't see any problem with freezing, but can you guys see any other issues from doing it in the cold/outside?

Once it is finished I will post pictures/video's on www.gtozoom.com

Again, thanks for the help.

[Bert]

the forecast predicts about 27 degrees. I don't see any problem with freezing, but can you guys see any other issues from doing it in the cold/outside?

Pure nitroglycerine freezes at around 55 F. Water, which is used to wash NG after synthesis freezes at 32 F. These are just the first couple of issues I can think of.

[knowledgehungry]

There will be little danger of the mixture freezing while the nitration is occuring, however with such cold conditions I could see there being a risk of NG partially freezing during the separation and cleaning, if you did this step inside I think you would be fine. Partially frozen NG is a very bad thing as it is more sensitive than liquid or completely frozen NG

[nbk2000]

The dreaded NG Slurpee of DooM! :D

Any part of the process that requires coolong is fine to do outdoors. But do the rest inside.

[GTOzoom]

OK, before i get flamed on, i did do a search, but i couldnt find anything concrete.

Yet you managed to fail in capitalizing the letter I when referring to yourself...THREE TIMES in one sentence!

Ammonium Dynamite. From what I understand you simply soak the AN with NG until it stops obsorbing the NG? The expiriment is going to happen in about 3 hours so I just wanted to make sure. The tube we will be using for the main charge is a 6" x 1.5" thick cardboard tube. It is fairly small and I know that ANFO has a critical diameter of 6" so I wanted to make sure that we don't need anything bigger.

Again. Thanks for all the help you guys have been, I really appreciate it.

[Bert]

What you are contemplating is a primitive version of an "active base" type dynamite. General practice when dynamite was the major industrial explosive was to:

A- Gelatinize the nitroglycerine before mixing with the absorbent by adding perhaps 3% additional low nitration nitrocellulose, which largely prevents the exudation of dangerous liquid NG, and somewhat waterproofs the explosive-

and

B- Oxygen balance (and cheapen!) the mix by using a mixture of nitrate and cheap carbonaceous fuels such as fine sawdust, flour, charcoal, etc. as the absorbent, rather than pure nitrate. It was common to include a small ammount of a carbonate in the absorbant (known as the "dope") as well, to protect against any acids left in the mix or acid products of degradation.

It was common to find formulations of such dynamites made varying between 65% and as low as 10% nitroglycerine content, depending on the projected use and degree of brisance desired. The higher NG content mixes are considered to be types of gelignite, the lower range might be considered ammonium nitrate explosives with NG as a sensitizer.

An example given in Phokion Naoum's Nitroglycerine and Nitroglycerine Explosives http://tinyurl.com/ywaoa3 is:

Nitroglycerine: 64%
Collodion cotton: 3.5%
Ammonium nitrate, powdered to pass 40 mesh: 25%
Wood meal: 6.5%
Calcium carbonate (chalk dust): 1%

The critical diameter is much smaller than that of ANFO.

Nitration of a mixture of perhaps 75% glycerine and 25% ethylene glycol (or 80% glycerine and 20% common table sugar) rather than pure glycerine would produce a non-freezing explosive oil suitable for use in cold environments. The ethylene glycol dinitrate admixture has the disadvantage of causing far worse fume headaches than straight NG, the nitrosucrose mixture has the disadvantage of near impossibility of purification to the extent allowing long term storage.

[Controlled Chaos]

I have used several types of Ammonium Nitrate from ice cold packs and 50lb bags of fertilizer grade.

From differing brands of ice cold packs I have found wonderful crisp white spherical prills and I have also found wet crushed dull needle grade with lots of impurities (and no i did not burst the water pouch which had moss growing in it). :eek:

Once when I was purchasing some AN from a farm supply store and got ahead of myself from the excitement. I ended of with 27-0-0 grade which were yellowish clumpy prills. I later did some research on Google that revealed that grade was treated with anti-nitration chemicals. So I found 34-0-0 grade and it worked perfectly for a NG Nitration. They were the same perfect white prills that I found in the cold packs. I do not believe that prills that are a great white color are treated with anything, but the ones that are off color.

Anyone else agree with these observations?

[GTOzoom]

My pdf file is almost done, and I am currently making NG for the 2nd time (to take pictures for the pdf)...I added excess glycerin and everything appeared to go fine. I finished the esterification proccess, and the solution is now sitting in a test tube to settle. My concern is that it looks nothing like the first time. It is a clear solution, but it looks like only one substance(unlike last time where it was in a colloidal suspension)

It has been sitting for 30 minutes, and I will continue to let it sit. I was just wondering If I went wrong somewhere. I used the same procedure as last time.

[EDIT] Shit...runaway...I determined that I had made glacial nitric acid instead of an H2SO4/HNO3 mix so I added H2SO4 to an empty beaker and added the mix into that slowly. Well after about a half hour of this I started smelling NOx and about 30 seconds later, the dense red fumes came. I dumped it into an ice bath and left the room, went back 30 minutes later and cleaned up...The reason it happened was because I didnt have a balance scale this time so I just added the NH4NO3 from what I thought it looked like it should be. Mistake on my part, I know. Well, I'm out of glycerol now, so I'm gonna have to order some more to do it again. :( ...I will still start writing up the pdf without the pics though.

[knowledgehungry]

Glycerol can be bought at any pharmacy, it is called glycerine. Just go buy some from the store and heat it with a dessicant in the oven.

[Bert]

reason it happened was because I didnt have a balance scale this time so i just added the NH4NO3 from what i thought it looked like it should be. Mistake on my part, I know.

An experiment that you can't repeat is not worth the time and materials it takes to perform. You may add the chance for untimely death and dismemberment to that when working with energetic materials. Get a scale and a simple graduate for measuring liquids before you try anything more in this line. Also, keep capitalizing your "I" when referring to yourself, please!

You could make a simple balance scale for nothing from junk laying around. I did when I was your age. I used pennies or nickels for weights, a coat hanger wire for a balance beam and Dixie cups for scale pans. A nickel is 5 grams, I don't know what the new pennies weigh now. Or you could use BB's, washers or any other repeatable, cheap small object. Weigh samples on a good scale once, and then work with what you've got. Or spend $20.00 for a digital kitchen scale. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93543

Glycerine can be made at home from any cooking grade vegetable oil with Potassium hydroxide and methanol gas line antifreeze... It's SIMPLE kitchen chemistry, check out soap making web sites or google "alternative fuel"+biodiesel for kitchen batch size process instructions.