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megalomania
November 14th, 2006, 06:05 PM
I was asked to start this thread because the poster is obligated to a higher authority not to do so. If anyone can assist, please do so…

The History Channel had a recent two hour special: Civil War Terror. It was an insightful little piece. My wife and I could not take our eyes off the television. It was the type of history that doesn't get taught in high school, but should be taught because it is so gripping.

In a few history courses over time, I heard one instructor or another say that the American Civil War (1861-1865) was the first "modern" war. They cited the mass transportation of the railroad, the industrialized state, war of economy, modernized communications in the telegraph (the updated form of which we use today), etc. Only infrequently did any one mention sabotage, or to an organized resistance within the Federal north, and only was there an occasional reference to the Confederate Secret Service, or what that secret service might have been or done.

Most people focus on the large scale of conventional operations, with some human interest stories relevant to the conventional war.

The two hour History Channel special looked at some of the sabotage, use of modernizing chemistry, and intrique fomented by the Confederate Secret Service. It showed that human beings have generalized patterns -- in this case, with the advent of the industrialized state, the program showed the very same patterns we would see in the secret war run by the SOE in Europe during the Second World War. The patterns of human behavior in secret warfare were the same. Only, in 1940, the technology was better.

So, I dialed up my good friend, Mr. Internet. But, Mr. Internet lives in a very cluttered house. It is sorely difficult to sort through millions of hits because it is related to the American Civil War. My time could have spent than trying to sort through those millions of hits.

The program, for example mentioned a Confederate chemist, Richard Sears McColluh, who defected to the South from the North in 1863. McColluh made improved "greek fire" which spontaneously combusted, so that agents could spread mayhem in Northern centers of industrial or political gravity, such as New York City. He also apparently developed poison gases. After the war, he settled in the South to teach chemistry at a regional college.

If, across the broad membership of the forum, you have knowledge of Civil War chemistry, or of the C.S.S. and its operations, might you fill us in?

My knowledge of chemical theory is meager. NBK2000 may jump all over that, saying this is not a teaching forum. However, going through the historical development of chemical progress is not the 1+1 chemistry that provokes people. It is understanding how chemistry developed, where it was in a time of historical importance, and how it influenced that time. In this case, it might be really very interesting to look at chemistry in the Civil War, if anyone has insight into that time period by way of focused study.

If you have a chance, please see Civil War Terror on the History Channel.

In closing, here is a related link to sabotage and terror operations carried out by the Confederate Secret Service in Federal controlled territory:
http://www.civilwarstlouis.com/boatburners/index.htm

megalomania
November 14th, 2006, 06:16 PM
For my part I can say I have spent much time perusing the stacks of old chemistry books and journals. A couple of years ago I made a rather startling revelation that mid 19th century chemistry was far more advanced than they ever let on in schools.

Sure they talk about the modern discoveries of atomic theory and all of that physics crap, but I mean the REAL chemistry: the getting your hands dirty, actually making chemicals kind of chemistry.

The ancients knew HOW to make almost everything we have today, they just didn’t know WHY things worked the way they did. The distinction is vast, but are we any better off knowing the why of things? Sure there are advantages in being able to predict chemical behavior, the physical properties of compounds, and whether some reaction is likely to happen, but for 99% of people, and a good many of them scientists as well, it is the results that really matter. Give me a product that does X.

Knowing the why from the how is one of the distinguishing characteristics of a scientist versus a chef, say, or a laborer that mixes chemicals. Still, I often lament that schools don’t teach anything of practical value in chemistry. I can talk about entropy until you fall asleep from boredom, but does it help you build a faster car, life saving drug, bigger TV, or cost efficient home? Nope.

Cindor
November 21st, 2006, 06:46 PM
I always loved what alchemists use to do... the really change the world, they seed the bases for the actual chemistry... they don't know what were they doing... but they were getting something.

Like ancient egypt's: calcinated ashes + fat => soap !!! Magic ! :P hehe

Charlie Workman
November 24th, 2006, 02:58 AM
That show was great. My ancestors served under Lee in the 92nd Virginia Infantry. From what I've been able to find out, greek fire was a catch all term during the period for pretty much any incendiary agent. The CSS was alledged to have used white phosphorous dissolved in carbon disulphide as the weapon in the attacks in NY. It ignited after the CD evaporated. I remember in an old version of the movie "Incident at Owl Creek Bridge", the saboteur had a can of commercial product labelled greek fire. It didn't ignite when he opened the can, and he had a match ready to light it. I'll have to check some of my old Kurt Saxon stuff to see if his old formularies have anything.
PS- This should not be confused with "geek fire", which is lighting your own farts.
__________________

"To paraphrase Aristotle, life is a gas!"
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Hirudinea
January 16th, 2007, 09:21 PM
For my part I can say I have spent much time perusing the stacks of old chemistry books and journals. A couple of years ago I made a rather startling revelation that mid 19th century chemistry was far more advanced than they ever let on in schools.

Although I know this thread has been dorment for quite a while I was looking on google books for chemistry related books and found several full books on chemistry (from basic, teaching, to advanced) from the 19th century, but they were pretty old, 1829, 1853, etc... so the question I have is are these books worth downloading?

nbk2000
January 16th, 2007, 10:56 PM
If they have any procedures for preparing reagents, I'd say yes, as the chemist of the times made chemicals from the most basic of (now OTC) ingredients back then, since Aldrich and FedEx didn't exist, so no ordering the stuff. :p

c.Tech
January 19th, 2007, 08:14 AM
so the question I have is are these books worth downloading?

I would say indeed. Older books are less likely to have all the good stuff taken out, now the chemistry that is taught is shit, nothing about making chemicals or useful reactions.

If its not too much trouble could u provide the names of these books with a link? Thanks.

Hirudinea
January 19th, 2007, 10:05 PM
If its not too much trouble could u provide the names of these books with a link? Thanks.

I just searched google books using the term "chemistry" and the "full book" option, I haven't downloaded them yet due to their age, hence my question, but look them up and see if their worth it.

tiac03
January 20th, 2007, 02:23 AM
I remember reading about how People kept finding glass vials along bodies of water that dated from the civil war. They were determined to have contained Sulfuric acid and they were wondering why and what they were for.


Ended up that they were part of a Civil war Mine. They would take a powder keg and modify it to have soft tin/lead bowl shaped compartments all around the keg. The Keg was filled with Black Powder and in each of the "bowls" was a Vial of acid and a sugar+chlorate mix. When a boat would hit the floating mine it would deform the tin/lead bowls, crack the vial, and... well you know the rest.


I'm still amazed by the ingenuity of people in times of war.

Another good show on the history channel was Something along the lines of "Inventions of war" Showed how lots of things we use on a daily basis were all made/invented because of war.