Best excuses for buying lab equipment.

[c.Tech]

Everyone knows it is becoming more difficult to purchase lab equipment from the growing restrictions caused by fear of terror that is being put into everyone’s head and meth cooks. If you’re young it makes your job even harder to get hold of some, for you cant say you work for a chemical company.

I’ve begun to think of the best excuses to buy this equipment that wouldn’t require much questioning from the seller and could be easily covered for.

The main three excuses I’ve been thinking of are for a distillation apparatus and flasks.
1. You need them for making herbal or flavour extracts (with alcohol) possibly for your homemade alcohol or herbal medicine.
2. Distillation of alcohol for fuel research purposes or drinking if it’s not illegal in your country.
3. Chemical production for rocket fuels for experimentation.

Having a bit of knowledge of your excuse could well pay off when they ask you, for example, which chemicals are you going to be making for your rockets.

Does anybody know of any other good excuses that can be used to convince the seller of the intended non-illegal use?

[nbk2000]

Reason C would be construed as 'terrorist missile research'. ;)

[Match]

My experience is that if you appear respectable and well educated, an excuse would not be needed.

Regardless of your excuse, if you are buying suspicious pieces of equipment (especially in a large quantity) no excuse is going to remove all doubt and it's best to take appropriate measures.

As for a 'story' to describe your purported use of the equipment, I'd personally stay away from things that scare people or that are easily associated with illegal activities. Herbs = dope. Rocket fuel = explosive. Alcohol = drugs.

There are many legit uses for glassware. Geological survey, soil sampling (samples are routinely places under vacuum/pressure, distilled, etc) Public pool and well water testing, Used motor oil/gasoline assessment.

As for solvents and certain chemicals, I usually just say I'm using them to 'Clean_insert random piece of special equipment here_.

It's also important to familiarize yourself with drug production so that you're aware of what is considered suspicious, especially when it has to do with meth.

[tmp]

I've never had a problem buying lab gear or chemicals. Of course, I'm not
ordering 3-neck flasks or DEA List I chemicals either. Unless you're making
obviously suspicious purchases, eBay and possibly LabX may be the way
to go. I don't know about countries outside the U.S., but here glassware
purchases generally are not regulated unless you reside in some of the
asshole states like California or Texas.

[knowledgehungry]

Actually I would think that sometimes youth could be an asset when purchasing certain things. What you need to do is come up with a legitimate idea for a science fair experiment using the items you want.

In regards to meth production a 24 year old college drop out is going to be more suspect than a pimple faced 16 year old. My advice is use your youth to your advantage, hell maybe even enter a science fair or two. Uncle Sam will look on a science fair winner experimenting in his basement more favorably than a angsty teenage rebel who has never gotten higher than a C in a science class.

[c.Tech]

Thanks for your help guys, I will use your ideas on buying simple labware such as beakers, flasks, burettes etc. at the cheapest local place but to avoid suspicion I’m going to order full lab kits such as this http://www.unitedglasstech.com/lab__kits.htm from the US.

Though a higher price and the cost of shipping at least I know I’m getting quality and security.

I also have glasses to make me look more studious and dress presentable enough.

[fiknet]

In regards to meth production a 24 year old college drop out is going to be more suspect than a pimple faced 16 year old.

This is what helped me I think, the first time I ordered glassware I rang a local place up and was very nervous and forgot some of the exact names of the items I wanted (This would set off warning bells). Luckily though I didnt have Police raid my house so I went down there in person to pick it up and brought my mum along with me because when you think about a 16 year old kid and his mum certainely can't be Mr. Abdul Bakalakdaka making teary wrist bombs or some some messy old man making meth in his backyard. It went alright and the most suspuciousness I got was "So you're needing this for school are you?" and stupid me completely forgot where I was and said "No" but luckily nothing came of that.

[Big Mac]

Just a suggestion and I could be dead off but a number of good excuses could be:

1.) You are in a correspondence course and would like to test out a few experiments your professor has given as a paper for extra-credit. Say that you will be making a video to send him or her. It sounds pretty legit to me. What are they going to do, call you a fucking liar? Most of the shop-owners I've met are generally meek and wouldn't be that dumb to piss off a customer.

2.) Your home schooling your kid and want to show them some science equipment to help perk their interest in science. After all, the kid who thinks beakers and science equipment sucks is probably some wretched little shit who will probably be digging ditches and flipping burgers.

3.) Your father or mother or spouse or loved one or friend is a chemist or what-have-you and for their birthday/ Christmas/ Hannukah /Kwanzaa /Mother/Father Day/etc. you want to surprise them with new lab equipment.

4.) Must kill the infidels......Allah AKBAR!! Just kidding, that'll get you to gitmo faster than a Baghdad Scud.

Experienced clerks are like gun shop owners. They can smell a rat if you leave a carcass out. If they are cool about it and realize they can't be blamed for it, they go with it to make money. You gotta love capitalism.

E-bay seems like a good place to go if you are too scared or want to see some bargains. My friend got a great Mortar & Pestel for a good price off of there.

[Hirudinea]

Why don't you say your church is supporting a high school on an Injun Reserve and your updating their Chem. Lab so the Wagon Burners can go to University and get trashed on beer instead of staying of the rez and getting wasted on anti-freeze. :)

[Big Mac]

Well putting it that way may come of a little racist.....or Bill O'Reilly like.

[Hirudinea]

Well putting it that way may come of a little racist.....or Bill O'Reilly like.

Well I was just giving your the gist of the idea, if you actually did it you would throw in lots of "Doing the work of the Lord"s, and "Helping the least of our brothers"s and mabye a few less "Gas sniffing spear chuckers" :D
But I think the whole charity equiping a school idea might be a good one, if you go to the right place with a good story you might even get some stuff thrown in free.

[megalomania]

My suggestion is to keep abreast of some “legitimate" form of research an amateur is likely to be involved in. Alternative energy, ethanol, fuel cells, extracting essential oils, soap making, making your own perfumes, etc. Any kind of analytical testing is always good (water hardness, dissolved organics, soil testing, motor oil comparison) because you often need a very diverse array of chemical reagents without access to spectroscopy equipment. Saying your in to developing your own pictures can be good for some things, but they usually get kits.

At no time should you display any interest or knowledge of drugs. The reason it is getting impossible to do legitimate science is because of the drug dealers. Keep in mind the very same equipment and reagents that are so versatile in chemistry invariably finds a use in making illegal drugs. You should defiantly be familiar with how illegal drugs are made to avoid asking for the wrong thing or combination of things, just keep that knowledge to yourself.

Know exactly what you want, do not let them talk you into something else (which may work for your cover story, but not the real intended purpose), and as a last resort say your getting it for your boss/partner/parent and you are just the errand boy.

Perhaps the best piece of advice I can pass along is don’t do anything illegal, and you won’t have any trouble.

[sparkchaser]

How about saying "I'm building an amateur lab so I can learn without having to pay thousands of dollars at university to find out that acids and bases don't mix very well."? Shows genuine scientific interest, low budget, and sarcastic contempt for the overpriced basic college courses that you may have looked at!

[Cobalt.45]

It would seem that a business that sells glassware would do just that sell glassware.:confused:

I find it unrealistic for a purchase to be denied, provided that the item is legal to sell and own.

Attitude is half the battle, appearance the other half. Be assertive without being pushy. Be:cool: . You have what they want just as much as visa-versa.

I know of no legal hindrance to buying glassware, in my area at least. Just because a flask or whatever could be used for making something illegal, there's just as many or more legit uses. No one should be denied access to basic research materials.

Has anyone actually been told no, when they tried to purchase glassware? If so, it's worse than I thought.:(

Pick up a free catalog at: www.fishersci.com/

Lastly, as mentioned above, there are good ploys to use to dupe the cashier. A pocket protector, thick, black-framed reading glasses could help, along with carrying in your hand a nice, shiny digital caliper to measure the item with. Meth cooks don't carry calipers, IMHO.
it tells how they have to take your detail down if you buy over $100 worth of lab equipment
Unreal! I'm assuming this ordinance is aimed primarily at the meth cooks/labs that thrive on Mexican precursors. A fucking shame.

[c.Tech]

Has anyone actually been told no, when they tried to purchase glassware? If so, it's worse than I thought.:(

In fact yes, not me personally but another Australian from this forum. When he asked for glassware they said it was illegal to sell it, I’m quite sure he was from Queensland.

Also look for a thread called "Texan scientists beware of the getispo" (or similar) started by mega, it tells how they have to take your detail down if you buy over $100 worth of lab equipment (or is it illegal to sell over $100?)

[megalomania]

I am half wondering if it is not so unreasonable for meth cooks to get themselves a little place in Mexico and just order all the equipment and chemicals down there. I wonder too if it would not be easy to take a trip to Mexico and purchase OTC like a large cache of chemicals and bring them back. I don’t intend anything illegal in the latter, it is just that you might be able to avoid all the legal hoops in buying some chemicals, save on shipping and handling, and score some very inexpensive reagents in small quantities that would only be available as ACS grade in the US.

Does anyone happen to know anything about Mexican law as regards chemical sales and shipments?

[Cobalt.45]

With NAFTA, it would seem plausible to set up a business as a way to obtain chemicals and such, South o' de border.

Mexican "law" has traditionally been affordable to those with even small budgets, especially in the settlements that aren't on the drug smuggling routes.

An enterprising individual might, then, obtain the items that were desired in quantities and at prices that could justify the whole scheme?

[Meawoppl]

The perfuming response has always flown well with me. All you have to do to get rid of any suspicion is put on a gay skit ;p

"Gawd, I just love smelling so perfect!"

. . . you laugh

[Cobalt.45]

Meawoppl, you are a very disturbed individual... but whatever works, right?:D

[Jacks Complete]

Errand boy always looks great.

Fax in a fake purchase order, and then go collect it. Just take a copy of the fax, with a handwritten note about Steve collecting it urgently before 3pm (or whatever) and if anyone asks anything, you are just the gopher, named Steve. Make sure you get a tax reciept for the "Petty cash tin" or whatever, and if they press, you say it's needed by the R&D guy today, he didn't have time to go to the usual suppliers, they are a pain, and don't even ask how long it takes for purchasing to get something together for a company cheque!

Be creative.

I love the perfumier cover. Did you know that there are hundreds of fake fragrancies that smell almost identical to the real thing? They are faked very neatly in a part of France I went to once. They sell for 5% the cost of the real stuff, and only a trained nose can tell them apart. The business is worth a fortune.

[megalomania]

Don't fake fragrances lack the fixing agents, the most expensive part of perfumes, that make them last a long time?

[Cobalt.45]

You can bet there's no ambergris in the formulation.

[megalomania]

OK, Hannibal :) Maybe in Japanland where whaling still goes on, but not for fake toilet waters.

[tweak]

My first attempt to buy from a chem supplier was a laugh.
I claimed to be an ex forensic chemist who was injured in a motorbike crash.
The injury prevented me from working full time, but I was able to tinker around in my garage and do basic experiments etc. I had requested Acetone, Xylene, H2SO4 and GAA via email in 2.5l and 4l quantities (respectively for solvents and acids) so I was a little worried that I might be flagged as a suspicious customer. Anyhow, long story short: The staff were very sympathetic to my cause and offered me a 5% institutional discount even though I stated I was on a disability pension. They even allowed my "son" to pickup the chemicals in person, even though they specified on their website that they only frieghted chemicals. :D

[chembio]

I've never had problems purchasing chemicals or glassware. Maybe it's because I use taxidermy as my excuse.

"I'd like 2.5 L of formaldehyde, please."
"Whatever for?"
"For my taxidermy."

Then I show them pictures of a frog I preserved (I really do indulge in taxidermy:p ). Goes all right :rolleyes:

[perrymk]

As my inaugural post I would like to offer some suggestions.

1. Keep an eye out for university sales. I have seen advertised in the local newspaper that the local university science department was going to have a sale of old equipment. This is usually at the beginning of the classified ads of the newspaper where there is a Public Announcement or similar section.
It is unlikely that one would be asked too many questions.

2. Take a class in glassblowing. As an undergraduate chemistry student I took a course "Scientific Glassblowing." At the time I had the basic skills necessary to make my own stuff (out of practice now). The final exam consisted of making a cold trap from glass rods of various sizes.

3. If a student, volunteer to do undergraduate research in a university lab. Sometimes you will be required to clean the lab and the professor will decide that old stuff is to be thrown away. No one is particular where it is thrown. Don't ask me how I know this.

[megalomania]

When the new chemistry facility was completed at OSU the chem profs abandoned the old building. They left all the junk in the hallway for disposal. By junk I mean tons of lab equipment they just didn't want to find a home for. I grabbed a bag full of swag, but I still lament not going back for more. I could have had a gigantic blast shield and a big ass ringstand.

[chembio]

Hey, that's a cool way to get equipment! I used to rifle through the garbage bag in my school's lab for salvage. Got cut many times but it was worth it: I managed to salvage 5 test tubes, a boiling tube, a 1000 ml beaker, a burette clamp, and even some ethanol (don't know why it got chucked out).

[megalomania]

I used to snag the large 4L glass jugs from the trash in droves before they started recycling them. Bastards. Now they send the bottles back to be reused or something.

[chemdude1999]

We don't recycle the glass, yet. So, I have access to the 4 liter jobs, plus dozens of acid 2.5 liter bottles. I hate the plastic coat, though. It gets sticky.

We also get a fair quantity of 1 liters. I'm still trying to determine if they want the bottles empty before we take them. :D

Off subject, but we use the acid bottles as waste receptacles, often for used solvents. They were using sulfuric acid jugs for waste benzene. I told them it was ok, but never use an old nitric jug. I don't need nitrobenzenes floating around. It would be my luck the damn thing would go through 3 nitrations and accumulate in the old bottle. :o

[Heat]

I always just tell them I'm a student working on a research project. They've never asked any more questions after that, except for chatting about what I'm studying, etc. (Except once, when I was buying potassium nitrate. I came up with a story about being told by a biologist that it's the best fertilizer.)

I usually tell them I'm studying chemistry. Anyway, if that doesn't work, I've been ready to forge an official letter from the university saying that I need the chemicals. But it's never been necessary for anything that I really needed.

[Gumby]

If you are concerned about being able to purchase the items needed for your experiments why don't you just set up a business to do it under?

Also I have had excellent experience with READE international. I think they will even sell goods to private citizens. Though they aren't the cheapest place they are one of the few that will sell to smaller companies.

I don't suggest you start buying the stuff to make explosives from such a place, as the government tracks all purchases of such a nature and they won't have any problem finding out if you have a license for such activities. But getting lab ware, ACS grade reagents, and pure elements in any form it is extremely useful.

[senjoronie]

I've bought glassware and equipment on Ebay multiple times and have yet to be asked what I was doing or why I needed a specific item. If they don't ask, I don't tell. I generally buy from people who are selling only a few items rather than the big-name sellers (e.g. United Glass Tech). The prices are better that way, and random Joe Seller probably isn't interested in your projects; he just wants his money order within 10 days and to be rid of his wares ASAP.

I ordered some Soxhlet thimbles from Fisher Scientific once as well, and they didn't ask any questions, surprisingly. I doubt I'd have the balls to try ordering a multi-neck synthesis flask from them, though, even if the prices weren't prohibitive.

[Gumby]

I have a legitimate need to buy my labware/chemicals for my business so they almost never ask and when they do I have a good answer! Besides I usually deal with the same company.

There are many small companies online that will sell to private citizens and not ask why you need it. For labware though, why would it be such a big deal when they asked what you needed it for? I can understand why they might question why you were buying stuff that could be used to make a bomb but labware shouldn't be a big deal. There are any number of reasons why you might need labware... testing samples of local water, isolating pollutents in the air and or water, or any number of other (real or bs) reasons.

[tintinteslacoil]

Yes, I have been turned down. The shop (in Tucson) said they couldn't so much as sell me a test tube, or the glass tubing that I wanted. Said "too close to the border" (??) I didn't know our rights and privileges stopped just because of proximity. All he would sell me were some lousy, overpriced rubber stoppers that I could have got cheaper at ACE hardware. All I wanted to do was some glass blowing (really!).

It reminded me of the time I tried to buy some Kahlua in Gallup, New Mexico, and was turned down because it was a "Sunday night, and you are headed West, through the Indian Reservation" (??) (No, I wasn't underage. I was 38 at the time.) I hate Gallup.

Later, a Chemical shop in Arizona quoted me (over the phone) $50 for a lousy pound of calcium carbide, which was worth a whole $2. I was going to use it in an old Justrite lamp (really!) I don't know if they would have even sold it to me at all--I didn't go there to see.

[anonymous411]

Go to Fry's (in California) and you can buy basic labware and chemistry sets right off the shelf. I remember seeing good-quality pyrex in open stock, but you can order "Wild Goose" brand online:

http://shop4.outpost.com/search?cat=-44794&pType=pDisplay
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4443656

I also remember seeing Epi-pens for sale...not a bad idea to have one around.

[nbk2000]

Epi-pens for sale at Fry's?

That's an auto-injector loaded with epinephrine (adrenalin) and is a prescription-only item, certainly not something you'd find in a consumer electronics store.

[anonymous411]

No seriously, this was in mid-2002, and in the emergency supplies section; it didn't require a prescription at all. I can't guarantee it was the actual "epi pen" brand, but it was definitely an auto-injector to combat anaphylactic shock. If you've ever been there, you'll know Fry's carries far more than your average consumer electronics store. Most consumer electronics stores don't carry labware either.

I know it's unusual; that's why I mentioned it. I don't think I could make that up if I tried.

[megalomania]

They wouldn't be the first store to sell illegal things accidentally. Look at Skylighter, that's what they have been doing all along if you believe the CPSC propaganda. Is it possible they are just empty pens without the active ingredient?

[nbk2000]

An empty auto-injector would still be a syringe, thus illegal in most places in the US.

[Boomer]

WTF???

I can go into just about *any* pharmacy in town and buy all sizes of syringes and needles, 15 cent each. In front of big stations the anti-AIDS groups give them to addicts for free. Government realised that making syringes hard to get only spreads AIDS and Hep-C. :)

Only the pharmacy right next to "needle park" stopped selling single syringes - for obvious reasons, it would scare the "normal" customers away if another junkie comes in every five minutes to get a new rig. They *do* sell packs of 100 though. Plus, they ordered some rather rare chems for me, like sodium nitrite, benzaldehyde, phosphorous acid ... good to live in a part of the world where meth is close to unknown.

Quote: "Unless it's lysergic acid or ecgonine we don't care." :p

[Charles Owlen Picket]

... good to live in a part of the world where meth is close to unknown.


How can you have one without the other? It seems that any place that has a 'spike distribution" element in place would also have a substance abuse issue which has a wide swath.

[Gammaray1981]

Boomer, are you in Britain, or some slightly less-restrictive area of Europe? My local pharmacy took syringes off the shelves a while back.

[Boomer]

No it ain't GB, but right in the middle of continental Europe.

And yes we have a drug scene, but syringes are used for heroin mostly, plus coke (and speedballing i.e. both mixed). Hardly anyone injects speed, as our speed is amph sulfate with 90% cut, mostly latose=hardly water soluble and un-smokable. It's insufflated or taken orally. *Meth*amphetamine however is very rare, most people don't even know it exists, including most speed freaks.

The pep/speed/extasy scene is worlds apart from the heroin scene, there's hardly any contact. While the latter drop out of society, the former are usually still employed and have a home. They would never touch a syringe.

The good thing is, instead of restricting iodine and red P, you don't get (pseudo)ephedrine here without prescription. The American meth problem is partly home-made. Its like selling ammonium nitrate at wall mart, but making diesel fuel illegal to prevent bombings. :p

[nbk2000]

Sounds like there's money to be made over there for any enterprising chemist. ;)

[Ratman2050]

The most logical thing I could ever think of is for Science Fair!!

I have been in science fair for 3 years and I can ask my teachers or anyone for any chemicals necessary for my experiment, heck, a friend of mine did something on Acid Rain and got free HCl, Sulfuric Acid, and Nitric acid! I'm probably going to use his excuse.