Magnetic fields affecting power meters?

[DMSOnMyVeins]

A friend of mine was thinking about reducing his power bill. I remember hearing about using a magnetic field to affect the rate at which the meter registers the amount of power being used.

He used a powerful neodymium magnet and moved it around the glass bulb on the meter and spent about 2 hours doing this and no change in speed was noted. This meter is an old meter, probably older than 20 years so it shouldn't have the safeguards newer meters have that resist magnetic anomolies.

Anybody know about magnetic anomolies affecting power meters and how it's done?:confused:

[c.Tech]

Doesn’t the power company have records of how much electricity goes into your property and they just double check on the power metre outside your house?

Why not just buy solar pallens (used) and hook them up to the power and your company should take it off the bill.

[rayman]

C.tech, I doubt there could be a second meter and they just use the one on the house to verify, There is no way to verify how much is going where with out the meter at your house/use point

[nbk2000]

If a picture of the meter in question could be provided (all numbers obscured) than possible methods could be discussed. Otherwise, we're just pulling our puds talking about it.

[Cobalt.45]

The "traditional" method to rip the power company was to take a like meter from an empty house and insert it during high current usage.

It requires the fashioning of a believable wire tamper indicator.

Also, most analog meters can be simply reversed by removing it and reinserting it upside down.

Magnetically altering the rate of the meter isn't likely to work as the internal parts are nearly all non magnetic

[DMSOnMyVeins]

Magnetically altering the rate of the meter isn't likely to work as the internal parts are nearly all non magnetic

The motor that turns the circular disc with the black line on it must be driven by an electromagnetically driven motor, lest it be driven by pneumatic or hydraulic means.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/04/Electric_meter.jpg

This is what the meter looks like

[Desmikes]

During the shitty times of early 90's when I had trouble with money I recall using a homemade device (built by an underpaid electritian) that would actually force the power meter to quickly SPIN BACKWARDS. It was about the size of a toaster, all that you had to do was plug it into the outlet and make sure that you don't end up with less watts on your meter than you had a month before ;) Now that I think about it there may have been a third wire going to the device, it's been a while, I don't remember for sure. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

[c.Tech]

AC currant consists of 2 wires, the third is probably the ground wire. The ground wire can be seen coming out of some appliances.

[Cobalt.45]

I have a Sangamo Watthour Meter Model 76000 here on the bench. Upon inspection, it's seen to be easily modified.

The obvious choice for me would be to take the glass off by removing first the meter from the panel, then by taking one clip out and rotating the glass CCW and lifting it free, then tighten the bearing adjusting screws down to retard the rotor speed.

This is amazingly easy to do, other meters may vary.

Or, remove the lugs from the meter that allow current to flow, replacing them with jumper lugs.

Operate the meter at a reduced rate with a suitable motor geared to the meter's clock work.

Upon inspection by the meter reader, all would seem to be in order- all numbers match, and the meter's "running".

Due to the shielding and the distance of the motor from any outside magnetic source, I see no practical way to alter the rate of the meter using a magnet.

[DMSOnMyVeins]

I have a Sangamo Watthour Meter Model 76000 here on the bench. Upon inspection, it's seen to be easily modified.
...
Due to the shielding and the distance of the motor from any outside magnetic source, I see no practical way to alter the rate of the meter using a magnet.


The magnet idea just won't work. You're idea of manually adjusting the rate so that the motor turns slower sounds great, and should go undetected. The only obstacle is finding a seal so one can reseal the box once they are done. Thanks.

+++++++++

Don't quote whole posts in the future. Thanks. NBK

[Match]

The power meters at some of our properties have digital read outs, although other still look like the typical glass covered meters.

I find it hard to believe that a power company uses the meter as its sole form of usage indication simply because neither at my place of residence nor work do I observe the technician coming out for a reading as often as once a month.... and we receive a bill indicating our monthly usage.

In terms of fooling the device for whatever reason, perhaps subjecting the internals to different atmospheric pressures might work. Although I don't see why rewiring the power to skip the device, or even reversing inputs/outputs wouldn't be the first choice. This might be the best option as external attributes arn't covered in tamper proof seals.
-------------

In a high yielding grow operation, you might see several 1000w lights, water coolers, dehumidifiers, air conditions, water pumps, cooling fans, auxiliary fans, carbon filters and UV scrubbers, among other things. I can only imagine the wattage of a setup like that.

With 100s of thousands of dollars in potential profit, I don't see the point in risking it, neither do I see the point in risking going to jail to save a couple bucks off your otherwise normal power usage. For the effort involved, you might as well generate your own power.

The people that are smart usually end up producing their own additional power via diesel generators, others resort to stealing power. I believe they do this by running a direct line to neighboring houses and mooching small amounts of power to hopefully stay undetected.

I've been led to believe that if there is a relatively large increase in total power usage (say 3 fold) then what is typically to be expected of the location, then the power company sends out an inspector.

I am also to understand that power companies have it setup so that they can actually read the hourly usage of your house. Say for example you had one large flowering room with several lights all running off a timer, you'd have a huge amount of usage for 12 hours a day and then almost no usage for the next 12 hours.

This could all be propaganda spread by the media and cracked out ganja smokers, as I’m no expert.

Of course, it wouldn't be in the best interest of a power company to limit your power usage in any way (as long as they know how much you're using)... But in Canada, most of the power companies are publicly owned (governmental) while others are newly formed private companies. It's not hard to imagine that all power companies potentially have ties with the local pork.

One form of power generation that recently came to mind is to use your municipalities own water pressure (40 psi) to power turbines. In locations where water usage isn't regulated, you could be free to produce as much power as you need... as long as you can get rid of the water. :D

[DMSOnMyVeins]

Your modern meter can be "read" from the street by the meter readers equipment. The meter "broadcasts" the kwh by RF. The power company still has the meter readers check these modern meters once in a while to check for tampering.

Here the meters are analouge and are read manually once a month. I see the meter reader every time he comes.

[c.Tech]

Say for example you had one large flowering room with several lights all running off a timer, you'd have a huge amount of usage for 12 hours a day and then almost no usage for the next 12 hours.

This could all be propaganda spread by the media and cracked out ganja smokers, as I’m no expert.

If you like to grow yourself a little treat such as some rich hydro crystalline buds *drools* then just have 2 rooms or split one side of a room from the other.

For 12 hours of the day you have one room running, and the other 12 the second room/half room is running, that just makes you look like your running more fridges/freezers clocks leaving lights on over night ect.

[rayman]

To hide higher usage what we did 20 some odd years ago is this, Find dead A/C units and welding equipment, place an A/C in nearly every window, place the welding equipment in the garage and leave the door open more often then not so that it can be seen

That was 20 some odd years ago, but the idea should still work to this day

They see lots of electrical equipment and they will ask no questions about your usage normaly, and if they do you mention that you get heat rash alot

[Alexires]

Thats a good idea C.Tech, spread the usage out over a period of time so it doesn't look too suspicious,

The way to go would be to grow during winter using a 1000W light and some fans. The good thing about this is that it will be mistook for a heater, but allow you to get enough funds to purchase a generator to supplement your power usage. But I don't think that is what this thread is about.


I think that physically altering your meter would be the way to go. Almost anything is possible if you take the time and are careful enough (which you can afford to do with your power meter.)

[nbk2000]

As long as your meter is an analog dial type, you can stop or drag the wheel, to save on your power bill.

An associate of mine went to prison for doing this, but after having done it everyday for almost a decade, so be careful if you decide to do it too.

What he originally did was drill in through the side of the plastic cover, parallel to the meter wheel, and push a piece of broom through the hole to stop the wheel from turning.

But he had to remove the straw during the day, lest the meter reader find the wheel stopped.

Then they replaced the meter cover with a tempered glass cover, so drilling it was out of the question.

So...using a very long drill bit, he drilled behind the locking collar that held the glass dome onto the meter body, and used a long piece of stiff plastic cord to reach down into the meter and drag on the meter wheel.

Since the piece only dragged on the wheel, the wheel never stopped turning, but it'd turn at only about a third to a quarter as fast as it normally would. :)

[charger]

A growop was busted recently that was stealing electricity by just bypassing the meter.

What they did was bored large holes (8-10" diamter) from the basement to the hydro stack. The wires were seperated, and they used a homemade displacement contactor (similar to the bed of nails on a linemans handset) to bleed extra electricity to a seperate panel. The connections were made underground, before the meter.

I'm not sure how effective this is, as the growers were caught in the end, but it may lead to other ideas

[Code Red]

A hell of a long time ago, I was told placing honey (or other sweet liquids), around and in the meter, would attract ants to nest.
The ants, of course, were then meant to block/stuff the meter.

Whether this idea will work, I'm not so sure... but it sounded ok!

With ants, the power company can't accuse you of any tampering!

[rayman]

I dont see ants getting inside the meter

I dont know if any meathod of slowing down the meter would work with the newer digital meters, I would think that if you placed a strong megnetic field around it it may mess up the electronic controler, but would that also shut the meter off ... ie no power flowing throught the meter ? I my self do not have the means or knowledge to know how to do somthign like my self so I'll just go sit on the couch and listen into what you all have to say about it

[Cancer]

The power company relies solely on your meter for usage information. They have no way of knowing how much goes where.

Getting a new seal can be fairly easy. Just call your electric company for a new one. If questioned as to why, say that you had an electric problem and the electrician checked voltage inside the meter. I've never known of an instance where the power company pushes for more info than that. I also know of several electricians who have a ton of seals who will sell them.

CodeRed, the ants idea is bad news. I've gone on several service calls for loss of power, especially in the oilfied where jack panels often have large holes in them, where ants were the problem. A large mass of dead ants, usually in connections like wire nuts, can weaken or completely stop power.

At the moment I can't think of any "safe" ways around the meter. However, I will say that if, for whatever reason, you remove your meter from the housing, turn off all power in your house first. All the small circuit breakers, and then the main breaker. If you leave power on in the house and try to remove the meter it can cause a massive arc giving you flash burns, or blow the meter up in your face.

[I probably hate you]

You know if you wanted to be really tricky you could bore right into your conduit hook up a bypass rigged to timers that would then be rigged to 120v 100 amp+ relays.

You could then run the timer that allows electricity through the meter during the daylight hours then the bypass at night to lower you bill, and if you are growing something you could have it in a dark room and just give it light during the night hours when your meter is bypassed.

If you were very careful with your wiring I doubt they would even be able to tell, and you could have your nice little timers all stowed away with the relays in a hidden pannel in the wall (putting a picture over it would be easy).

If anyone does mess with any of this as has been said before be very careful getting killed to save a buck wouldn't be worth it .

[Jacks Complete]

For the money, it wasn't really worth doing this. However, The War Against Terror has put up prices in the UK by over double for gas and electric. Some estimates say that half of Liverpool are fiddling the electric meter.

You can stick a high powered magnet next to it. It makes the wheel spin backwards if you invert the field that normally spins the wheel one way.

The other method is to drag the wheel. You drill a tiny hole, then put something in to slow the wheel down. Apparently the latest way to do this is via a hole through the wall from the outside!

Usage is estimated, and they read the meter about every 6 months. UK law says that you must have a visual inspection of the meters once every 2 years, and that the meters are the property of the supply co. and you *must* let them in.

[DogOfWar]

The internal "motor" in a watt-hour meter is based on shaded pole technology and eddy current theory. Basically the aluminum disk has a magnetic field induced on it by a winding that is "shunted" to achieve the proper calibration and conversion factors to read out in kilowatt hours. The math is done in the gears.

So, A magnet of any kind WILL NOT have any noticeable effect on the meters rate of operation.

You can however build a device that will "power factor correct" your electrical loads. This device will cause the current and voltage waveforms to be closer to "in phase" with each other, resulting in less harmonics and so reducing the rate at which the meter runs. This can result in savings of up to 30% depending on what type of loads you have (inductive/resistive). Whats more it's perfectly legal!

[Gammaray1981]

I sincerely doubt that it is perfectly legal to tamper with your meter in such a fashion. After all, Big Brother owns the power, and he doesn't like being cheated.

[DogOfWar]

Lots of companies/large users do this. Far as I know it's legal everywhere.
Definately in Texas USA! Even the power companies use this method to reduce the apparant load on thier systems!

[Corona]

I know the meter reader comes by sometime between the 22nd and 24th of each month. So we allow the meter to work as normal for a week (can't look too efficient)... then we tilt it downwards for the rest of the time by unscrewing the top two screws on the meter-mounting brackets.

A meter tilted in any direction at a 30 degree angle stops spinning.

Happy?

Oh... the meter is inside the gate. That's why I can do it. It isn't visible from the street. And we did try very powerful magnets... they don't work.

[salix]

During the shitty times of early 90's when I had trouble with money I recall using a homemade device (built by an underpaid electrician) that would actually force the power meter to quickly SPIN BACKWARDS. It was about the size of a toaster, all that you had to do was plug it into the outlet and make sure that you don't end up with less watts on your meter than you had a month before ;) Now that I think about it there may have been a third wire going to the device, it's been a while, I don't remember for sure. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

That device most likely is just inductive load. That device works with older mechanical meters, newer ones have special mechanism that prevents spinning backward. The power meter measures active load, if most of load is reactive, disc starts to spin backward. I guess, one can make such a device out of a large transformer

[nbk2000]

An associate of mine used to use a piece of trimmer line to drag on the meter wheel, thus greatly slowing it down, without actually stopping it, so if the meter reader came around unexpectedly, they wouldn't see a non-spinning meter wheel, just a slow one. :)

By drilling a very small hole behind the locking ring that holds the dome over the meter, you can insert the trimmer line and leave it there, invisible to any normal meter reading, as the gap between locking ring and meter body is only a small fraction of an inch, and the trimmer line is inside the meter body, behind the meter face.

[grimreaper]

I had a dream that I worked for the electricity company for a number of years, several of which were in the metering test and calibration department.

During this dream , I learned that electricity meters work on ALTERNATING CURRENT therefore the coils inside them produce ALTERNATING magnetic fields, it is these alternating fields that cause the wheel to turn , or not turn

There is indeed a powerful permanent magnet inside the meter and this is used as a kind of brake to control and calibrate the meter, however the poles of this magnet have to be very close to the wheel to be effective.

This is why the magnetic field produced by a permanent magnet outside of the case has no effect on the speed of the wheel the poles are just too far away to have any effect.

As for power factor correction , this is very common in industrial clients because they have to pay a kind of fine if their installation shifts the current out of phase with the voltage (usually due to a large number of induction motors in the premises ), adding capacitor banks can improve the power factor to a level , where one no longer has to pay the fine

Domestic users do not have this problem , they can add all the inductive loads they want and the meter will indeed turn slower than it would normally if they were resistive loads for example.

The problem is that ANY load , be it inductive , resistive , capacitive WILL consume energy , the meter will record this and you will pay for energy consumed so there is not much to be gained there.

I have seen the “black boxes“ they do indeed slow the meter down , they also leave “tracks”
(Small burn marks) as they have to carry all the current through the ends of the wires you ram up the incoming terminal connections.

The meter is the only way that the company knows how much energy you are consuming , your bill is based on the reading from the meter , bills are frequently estimated due to the inability to enter the premises and read the meter , or for company policy , maybe read every 6 months estimate the other 5 months and correct the difference the next reading , this varies from company to company.

During my dream time I saw some very ingenious ways of slowing the wheel down , when one came across something “ new “ it was reported to the manager , he would arrange for a training session and all meter readers or at least their supervisors would be instructed on the best way to detect the “new “ trick.

The point here is that they have seen all the tricks and know exactly what to look for.

Should they suspect there has been some tampering , they 99% of the time simply change the meter , should the same evidence of tampering occur again they usually prosecute .

Some tips

These meters are usually somewhat dusty due to their location , the reader expects to see the dust, if the device has obviously been cleaned recently he will become suspicious.

If you have lived in the premises for a while, the company will create a kind of graph of your consumption , this will of course rise and fall with the seasons , any dramatic changes in consumption will be noticed , have a reason on hand , for example changed from electric heating to gas.

Any wheel slowing should be done in small steps so as not to produce a noticeable drop in consumption.

Any major slowing should be done the moment you occupy the residence , be sure to change the name on the account , that way it is clear to them that a new resident has occupied the premises , different people have very different demands on the system.

A crooked electrician is by far the best option , he should have the original style seals and be able to remove the cover from the meter, slow it down by whatever means and replace the seals ,

Even this option is becoming less attractive as the newer seals even have a number on them this number can be traced to the meter , and guess whose name is on the account for that meter.

Maybe saving a couple of bucks on the electric bill , and risking a visit from THEM , with some of the other things we all have lying around , just isn’t worth it.

Sorry to have rambled , this is one of the few subjects in this fascinating forum that I feel I have something to contribute.

[Corona]

Once upon a time (actually one year ago), a tech guy from our power company was given a bottle of expensive booze (by guess who) after which he spilled this info:

1. Cut the neutral wire going into the meter in such a way it appears intact (broken from inside).

2. Create your own earth. Get a giant 3-phase-transformer and take the neutral out of it's "star point" (Delta-winding transformer would be useless in this situation)... or just use your water line or gas line that is going underground.

3. Run your own house using this earth as a neutral.

4. And when feeding it back to energize the meter it should go through a regulator (dimmer switch).

5. Turn the regulator (dimmer switch) and watch the meter go slow... and slower... slower..... you can stop it cold.. from inside your house... if you want.

Before meter-reader guy comes, remember to speed it up again!

They will never catch this... unless they measure the load from the pole. Just don't steal too much... they won't get suspicious.
--------

There is another story someone once told me....

Once upon a time, all the power-meters in Muree (a very cold place) had to be replaced by Swiss made meters. Why? because they were not air tight and they became full of frost and the meters iced up and stopped spinning during winter. In summers they would start up again.

That gives me ideas!

[nbk2000]

Well, my associate was running his business and house from that meter, and was saving about $800-$1,200 per month, and had been doing it for almost a decade. Do the math. :D

[Corona]

I have been doing it (only tilting the meter, nothing more) for 3 years now and save around half to 3/4ths of what I should be paying every month.

One stole around thousand dollars of electricity every month .....:eek: And he used it to steal power for his business? Oh man, if he was here, he would be in for a long long time and his property seized.

If I stole that much, they would send a truck over and measure the load when I'm not around. And then use that as evidence of theft. And when they accuse someone of power theft, they calculate a huge bill from the last 10 years or more (even if you've been stealing for a month or two) and take that out of your hide.... that is to make up for the loss they suffered at the hands of all the other crooks who got away.

In fact I figured out a way to cause real grief to folk I don't like....

Many many people have their meters installed outside (unlike mine) where the meter-guy can read it anytime he likes. If I go and drill a hole in the plastic casing....

Power Company in Karachi (run and owned by big mean looking Germans) is always looking to land on someone like a ton of bricks.

Now we are getting new meters in Karachi which (I've only heard of these, not seen one yet) are made in China. They are filled with inert gas. If you drill a hole in them, the gas leaks and the loss of pressure triggers something inside and the whole street will know you're a crook just by looking at your meter.

[wetpowder]

Our power company installed new meters in our area. They don't have to read them anymore. It is done at the power company. They are read through the powerline, each house has a code. I don't think there is a way to defeat this.

[Jacks Complete]

wetpowder, where there's a will!

Unless they filter the line before it then enters your house, you can read it too! Find one of the many power data transmission systems, and hook that up. Or use a 'scope to look at the wavelength and frequencies on your mains line. Determine what your meter's code is, and perhaps your whole streets, and then simply listen for the replies. I doubt it will be encrypted, so you can alter it.

If it is encrypted, you might be able to jam it, then replay the previous reading or something. Or you might be SooL.

corona, that gas fill idea sounds like a great idea for keeping your IEDs safe from disarming.

[Corona]

corona, that gas fill idea sounds like a great idea for keeping your IEDs safe from disarming.



Yep. And it seems something a smart guy can easily do.

Meanwhile, here is a post from a Pak blog, catching folk stealing power:

http://karachi.metblogs.com/archives/2007/06/the_story_of_a_2.phtml#more

(click on pics to enlarge)

[Imagination]

Hi all...

I see two possible toughts i'd like to share
1.
As far as i know, the current that goes through an electromagnetic coil
produces alternating electromagnetic field, which then induces in that spinning plate, which then takes some time(nanoseconds?) to convert itself fo current, again, which produces an electromagnetic field that acts against the previous electromagnetic field...so the plate begins to spin....the more load, the higher current, the stronger electromagnetic fieldpairs, the faster spins....the higher bill :) ...so all that needs to be done, is making a stronger alternating electromagnetic field, that interferes with the original one, and eliminates/reverses the effect...
Of course it should have the same phase in time to make this happen properly, because if not, it could lead to vortices of current in the plate, thus ruining the concept....
So a phase driven electromagnet should do the trick, you could just turn it upside down...and near the electromagnet that moves the plate....
2.
Or i'm thinking of a bit more complicated concept, which would stop the meter if someone would use this device right after the meter, before any load....
I could think of a device, which could take the load in very short impulses
lets say a few kHz...then there are two possible ways to get this work...shorten the impulses so that the plate doesn't even start to move because it's persistence....or to tune the device, so that the coil that drives the plate and the plate begins to resonate....and thus creating chaos, which could fasten or slow down the meter, some testing?....then simply make direct current of the pulse-alternating current with some diodes, then charge a large acid battery(of more) and use a UPS for reconverting the direct current into useable 50Hz alternating one....it would'nt be sinus anymore, but who cares...the resulting shape of that current has a greater effectivity than sinus...

What do you think?

[timo]

The major factors in "borrowing" power from the utilities are this...
1. Gradual reduction in consumption. Major spikes are an instant red flag.

2. Do not tamper with the meter itself. Unless you want a new roommate named Bubba. This is proof against you.

3. If you have an old style meter, you can flip it over and make it run backwards. You need to document your usage precisely and you must know exactly when they read the meter. Track them for months to be sure of when they come out. If they suspect this, they will put what is called a one shot seal. It looks like a lock but is aluminum and very difficult to come up with extras. This method works but you have to document and be very anal or you will get caught.

Here's my preference: Splice into the supply side. I did this in my new construction. Where the weatherhead pierces the eave, I put a tee in the PVC and this feeds my heat pump. I do not have to worry about varying my consumption. You could go to a grow room as well. Do not do both though.

Here's how to do it:

1. Get a permit to replace existing meter base. Buy one that has a disconnect in it. (This is the excuse for replacing meter base). Call the power company to disconnect power. Do your splice in eave and replace meter base. Have it inspected and call power company to reconnect feeders

[billo]

The best way to take some of the load off is by taking needles and shoving them through the wire coming to meter in both LIVE and Earth cable. Then use the electricity at will but be careful that Master meter is not installed up the line. I have done this in all the RENTED premises, over a period of last 15 years.
The only problem seems to be the concealing the pins and the wires. In the current house, I complained about the meter in writing, the electricity inspector came to find that the meter out casing was Broken with absolutey NO tempering showing. They had to take it off and for three days the let me have teh electricity use for free without any cost. The meter was taken to the meter testing laboratory, I was also called the Inspection master put the meter on testing and recorded the readings and did a lot of stuff, even cleaned the insides with a special CHEMICAL to see if there has been some tempering done. Nothing was found, because I didnt intend to do anything except hit it with a small hammerto crack the meter hull.
The inspection report came flawless. as sweet as honey. I was allocated a new meter on company costs. Everyone must be thinking WHY did I break the meter???

The real fun started when the company came and wanted to install it again, i asked them that why dont they put new cable from the pole, they said OK. I also asked them to put concealing duct for it. They also did that at MY cost. after they installed and checked the meter a verfication was done in a week.

I drilled with a hand drill eight pin holes exactly behind the duct and got thin pins to come through and poke into live wire; all eight for just one LIVE wire. I took earth from the basement where there was an old unused pipe going into the ground; just hooked one line into it and everything just jump started. my load is about 7 kw which is about three A/C (climasateurs/ Air Conditioners) working 24 hours a day. I also got permission to generate power with 10 kw generator Diesel that i constructed with a engine from an old truck and other parts from a retail store selling genarator replacement parts.

The good thing is with generator available, the company cannot say that OVER LOAD is there without sanction.

Eight pins because ONE pin would burn out; and with eight and the load at 7 kw it worked out fine.

The company is not allowed to come into the home without a Electric Magistrate and almost a regiment of Electric inspectors to catch the stealing of electricity.

I have put a VERY VERY thick cable on this load and also use it to dry my clothes after washing. Though it costed me ten times what it would have normally to use a thin wire.

Only once the electric inspector came looked at the cable and asked why is it there. The reply was from my wife laying clothes on it and smiling at his stupid question.

In the end run all is ok. when the temperature soars to 45 C, the house feels like a heaven inside without any fear of fortune going into the pocket of company. Just a bit of planning and Voila!@.