Psychedelics/Hallucinogenic compounds

[Red Beret]

For as long as I have known what they are, psychedelics have always fascinated me. After many years of reading on them, I would like to try some small doses, and see for myself.

This is not just me wanting to get high (that's part), but more of a self involved experiment.

I have access to peyote (mescaline), and possibly LSD but thats about it. I don't think I have any underlying mental conditions, nothing is in my family, and I spent considerable time under severe stress and didn't lose it. That isn't conclusive proof that psycedelics won't mess me up, but I've thought alot upon it, and I think if I start on smaller doses to see if it's enjoyable to me, I should be OK.

What they do to the perception on ones reality amazes me, from a scientific and "spiritual" (for want of a better word) point of view, and I want to see for myself.

Do any of you have much experience with these compounds? What are your thoughts, opinions and experiences with these substances?

[corrosive]

I've experienced some of the most vivid hallucinations involving inhalants, somethings like, visiting other planets/aliens, aliens visiting me, demonic figures looking at me in the dark, in the first days I would usually hallucinate about suffering, despair, torture for some reason, and I mean these hallucinations very vivid, even as vivid as real life, or more so. I've seen shadows being manipulated, objects move, alot of the same type visions or "zones". I've transcended mentally, reached a state of levitation for approx 15 seconds. The most freaky things I've experienced is like another "human" or whatever from far far away comes, with this super smart machine type thing to relax my stress, and the vision was only 2 feet by 2 feet. I would extend my head out of it, I would see normal life, I go back in, I see it, strange thing is, when I take my head out of the vision, and put my hand in it instead, I would feel dense air, almost radioactive.

Also another very vivid and awesome trip was first inhilation, All of the sudden I feel...force on my body, I mean it gets stronger and stronger and stronger, then when my physical body is drained and I can't take much more, I'm talking like, 4 or 5g's of constant force, once I can't take anymore, the slows down and releases it and after the trip finished I felt so healthy and relieved, sometimes days with alot of stress, I would trip, and the trips would be soothing places and very aromatic experiences.

I've had spiritual experiences aswell, visited by God ect.

What you got to remember is, when you trip the sequence of events that happen within that hallucination is almost impossible to explain so it may seem stupid when you try to explain it.

Also you got to remember it's almost impossible to remember that you are tripping until its almost too late, say suicide or extreme stress, that is if the hallucination is very strong, ae. high dose. Many of these experiences are traumatic, I would have to say aprox. 40% of my experiences would fuckin disable weak minded people, all I got to say is man have I seen some things.

If your looking for lsd or mescaline to expand your mind or your spirit thats pretty much a good reason, but if you just wanna get high, marijuana is there for that reason.

I keep going with this post, but I just wanna warn you, some experiences may change your life forever, it would be unconceivably foolish to take 2 doses of LSD your first time, that is almost asking for a bad trip, and yea man, people get BAD trips.

Alright I wanna close this post up, my recommendation is do it in a safe and non-scary or unknown enviroment as those cause the most bad trips, after all, all the trips I've had were in the same room every single time and that is why I haven't had any really bad trips.

Keep the doses low as you become adjusted to the effects.

Corrosive,

[Red Beret]

Thanks mate, that was helpful.

What were you inhaling to trip? How long did it last, and how would you compare it to an acid trip?

As I mentioned, I'm planning on very low doses, to see how I handle it. I will then gradually work up, if it suits me. I am looking to expand the mind, see things etc., not looking to just get high, thats what coke is for!

Some people believe the consiousness leaves the body while tripping. What do you think? Could you leave and go and look at other things here and there? I'm not convinced it's possible. But then again, I haven't tried it.

I've gone through alot in my life, and sometimes I just sit and think, about the nature of reality, and consiousness. I'm not a spiritual person, but my life experiences make me think. There's an awful lot we don't know, think of the possibilities.

[c.Tech]

Corrosive, what type of inhalants, I’m hoping it wasn’t propane, butane or anything else that can cause extreme health problems or sudden death on inhalation.

I personally think inhalants are too dangerous, the only inhalant that’s worth it is nitrous oxide with vitamin B12 supplements before use to lower the risk of that irreversible brain damage it seems to cause with slightly long term use.

I've been thinking of tying kava, although its not a hallucinogen it would still be fascinating with a good sleep and vivid dreams (probably bliss if you teach yourself to have vivid lucid dreams :D).

I want to make a kava extract with 96% ethanol and smoke it, first comes the numbing of the mouth then an extremely relaxed almost bliss feeling you get, now I’m just wondering what this would be like combined with dexamphetamine. Does anybody have any ideas if they would mix?

[corrosive]

Personally I do not want to disclose what I was inhaling for obvious facts, it was in the butane, propane region most likely, yes I know there are health risks, and I prolly damaged my body without a doubt, I quit for obvious reasons of health. All I needed was one breathe full to get full effects, never more then that, density of inhalant per air, upon wanted strength of visions. The effect's were very short, ranging from 30 seconds to 3 minutes maybe little more, never counted. Comparing to acid trips I would say a strong inhalement would give you the climax of visuals an lsd trip gives you, just a shorter amount of time, but this stuff doesn't remove you from your body like acid would and expand your mind with the world, ae. smelling temperature levels, seeing tastes, and feeling sounds.

I'm pretty sure if you wanted to connect with God and see heaven, you would take approx. a high dose of acid ranging upon your tolerances and read the bibles and find out the true meaning of every verse, this would entrance you in God and possibly you will see some serious visuals. It's very easy to manipulate visions and get certain type of hallucinations just by changing your enviroment and what your brain is thinking about during the trip.

Obviously you wouldn't be visualizing fish if you were seriously thinking about space travel or something like that. What you think about will set your trips path.

[Match]

I want to make a kava extract with 96% ethanol and smoke it, first comes the numbing of the mouth then an extremely relaxed almost bliss feeling you get, now I’m just wondering what this would be like combined with dexamphetamine. Does anybody have any ideas if they would mix?

From the personal experience of my acquaintances and I; Dexetrine appears to increase the effect of certain drugs. Marijuana 'feels really good' and its effects are definitely increased, usually causing the user to smoke an above normal amount. It is unknown to me if it’s the Dex, the superphysiological amount of pot, or simply the combination of the two; but short term memory loss is considerably more apparent the next day. Drugs like Ecstasy, Dxm and cocaine also become more effective with Dextroamphetamine.

As for stacking it with a kava extract, I say go for it, start small, and be aware of the purported hepatoxic effects, especially in alcohol extractions and those involving the stem peelings and leaves.

[c.Tech]

Dextroamphetamine and marijuana, now there’s a good combo. When I last took it, later when I became more alert I felt so happy like everything was finally going right in my life, no worries and no problems. It was like an alternate feeling of happiness.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Drugs like Ecstasy, Dxm and cocaine also become more effective with Dextroamphetamine.Stop speaking please. That's incredibly hard on the heart and dangerous. Assuming Red Beret has done his reading like he says, he'd already know this so he wouldn't try it, but it's still stupid to recommend. If you're going to recommend a combination of drugs, make sure they aren't a dangerous combination.

[festergrump]

I'd really like to recommend a genus of fungus for your first psychedelic experience, preferably Psilosybe Cubensis, if it's available to you. This type of mushroom produced my most memorable trips even though it was nowhere close to being as powerful of an LSD trip for me.

It would be an excercise in futility for anyone to try to make you understand what a pschedelic experience is like. All I can tell you is to be sure to be in a comfortable location, amongst trusted friends (who won't go out of their way to "freak you out"), to have clean water available to drink (and play with. Also other beverages to try), and really good music (soothing or mellow to you) to listen to. Sober friends would be great to have available for your first time, too. You know, "ground control".

I'd recommend not eating any solid food for some time before your trip, especially it being your first time... Having a bowel movement on psychedelics is not an experience I'd long for or try to recreate. Just an unpleasant function of life.

Now, aside from attempting to tell you just what I saw while under such influence let me tell you what struck me as the most important part of the trips. I came to realize that everything I previously thought important began to completely lose it's value to me. My name, would be one such example. I couldn't even remember what it was sometimes, but then realized it didn't really matter to me. More important to me was how everything material was completely superficial. Conscious thought was everything and material items (even my own body) were so very unimportant in comparison. (perhaps this is the God or religious experience many speak of). I truly felt my own existance was put in a better perspective than before my trip.

Once you really trip you'll never be the same again, I can promise. Your whole outlook on life and earthly matters will probably change completely.

Honestly, do try to trip on something organic (mushrooms or peyote) before LSD. "Real" LSD is a hit or miss deal when trying to find it and you'll never know if you got the real thing until you take it and have done it before. Too many assholes out there who'll poison you with their fake acid on a blotter (you might see some crazy shit, doubtful but possible, but all the while you'll probably clench your teeth and hold your stomache because you've just poisoned yourself!). Been there... NOT fun.

Good luck, and remember to surround yourself with pleasant things... I once dropped a couple hits of acid I got from a Grateful Dead show and got caught up watching Omen II when I started tripping pretty good. It took the Beatles "Magical Mystery Tour" and some good old Jim Morrison to get me enjoying myself again.

One more thing: When you begin to come down from an LSD experience, smoking some pot can extend the trip slightly, YMMV, though. Alcohol will seem to have no effect while you're tripping, but be aware! Too much in your system at once can KILL you, even if you aren't getting drunk! Sticking to one drug at a time is a very good idea (except for marijauna, that is).

[EDIT: A very simple 'field-expedient' test to see if mushrooms found fresh are psychedelic or not is the "Bruise Technique". Pinch the stem between two fingers and if it turns a purplish-blue, it's almost certain it's psychoactive. A better test would be to buy a book on the subject and take a spore-print to verify it's genre. Print out a 3 or 4 inch circle on you computer's printer, one half of the circle being all black and the other half all white, place the mushroom's cap face down on the center of the circle, and cover with a glass for a few hours. The spores that drop on the paper will be best for identifying the species of fungus you have. The black and white halves of the spore-print paper are to provide excellent contrast for identification... ;) Happy trails! (pun intended!)]

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

www.shroomery.org is great for helping identify mushroom species

[Cobalt.45]

And, if you pick the mushrooms the morning after a light rain, they'll be in VG condition.

The next, and subsequent days will have the gills of the fungus rife with maggots. They won't hurt you if they're removed thoroughly, but a bit off-putting, just the same.

I personally, would go with a half-hit of acid in a familiar setting.

Keep a bottle of Bali Hai (Boon's Farm?) chilled for post-peak enjoyment, good music is a must, a trusted friend (who isn't prone to hysterical outbreaks)to trip with, and yer set.

[Lewis]

General rule of thumb when buying illegal drugs:

If it comes from a plant, it will probably be O.K.

Otherwise, stay away. Mushrooms (psilosybe cubensis) would be your best bet in my opinion as they have no side effects, and are 100% safe for your body. (assuming they aren't laced)

However, if you really wanted to go all the way, I've heard there is no comparison to DMT.

[sparkchaser]

Isn't this truly the wrong forum for speaking on these matters? I was of the impression that the illegal drugs were frowned upon here. Thats what Lycaeum and Erowid are for.

[Chris The Great]

*shameless plug* The crucible has a drug forum too.

I've heard a lot of good things about psychedelics, especially about mescaline. I'm hoping to make a gram or so some time and see what all the raving is about. DMT sounds crazy as well, but perhaps a little TOO crazy, for now anyway. It would be pretty easy to have a bad trip if it was one's first hallucinogen.

If buying make sure you trust your seller. In other words, random guys on the street are generally not a good source for your illegal mind altering chemicals, although I should hope that it immediately obvious to anyone...

[Red Beret]

If this topic shouldn't be here, could a mod lock/delete it please. I didn't set out to break any rules. I appolagise, if I have.

As for peyote, I can get san pedro, which I have been told grows the quickest, compared to the other varieties. Is it worth buying a small san pedro to grow for consumption? The other types appear to grow painfully slowly. I won't bother with isolating the mescaline though.

I'm not sure about this now, I don't want to be "changed forever". As I've said twice, I'll go with very small amounts at first. But Peyote is looking likely for me. Thanks for all the advice.

And don't worry ShadowMyGeekSpace, as a rule I never mix anything, just to keep on the safe side. :)

[FUTI]

Wow...this thread progresed considerably since last time I looked. I didn't have time and nerves to read and think thoroughly all presented ideas, but from the back of my head little info jump out.

I remember seeing an text about kava extract...European firm attempted the European school extracting with ethanol (and even they didn't use 96%) not the "native" coccoa's milk and water procedure. Guess what detoxicant (glutation AFAIR) from the plant material won't be extracted in xy% ethanol, but "native" technique "pick" that one too. Liver damage, couple heavy poisoning and at least one death are asociated with that experiment.

Also native user's are geneticaly diferent in some kind having only one type of a critical protein in their genome while we aren't that lucky...naturaly their protein is the one least effected by the possible negative side effects.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

And don't worry ShadowMyGeekSpace, as a rule I never mix anything, just to keep on the safe side.Generally(but not always) a smart move, my good man.

[L012DofWAR]

If you have not done any psychedelics before, I recommend starting with Salvia. Although this stuff can be very strong, you can buy 5x and not trip too bad. I've never heard of anyone having a bad trip on Salvia either, so it's relatively safe (not to mention legal). I recently had a bad experience with a very small amount (2-2.5 grams) of P. cubensis. However, I was with friends, and that did make it a lot better.

One suggestion for trying shrooms in small amounts is to drink some orange juice or other drink with a large amount of Vitamin C. It enhances your experience and there is no risk.

[festergrump]

I'm not sure about this now, I don't want to be "changed forever".
"Change is goot. You vill take dis drug and like it, ok? You take drug now." :)

Really, don't worry about being changed permanently for it's truly a learning experience. Learning anything new can almost never be bad. It's usually when you forget things in life you allow bad things to manifest...

I've never had the opportunity to try peyote but I'd have to say due to the fact that mescaline is produced naturally in the wild (peyote cacti) it'd be a great place to start. (I'm even envious that you have a readily available source!) ;)

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Mescaline really is nothing to be hyped up over... infact, I dislike mescaline. The nausea sort of ruins the experiance. I'd much rather have some psilocybes or some DMT(and analogues), maybe some salvia. Mescaline is a rather mild experiance when contrasted against other things.

[polyfractal]

If you have not done any psychedelics before, I recommend starting with Salvia. Although this stuff can be very strong, you can buy 5x and not trip too bad. I've never heard of anyone having a bad trip on Salvia either, so it's relatively safe (not to mention legal).

I'm going to go ahead and offer the exact opposite advice. Salvia is so foreign compared to any other psychadellic it can't be compared at all. No amount of psychadelics can prepare you for a salvia trip, other than perhaps giving you a small amount of mental fortitude. Salvia trips are never "fun", but are certainly interesting.

Complete ego-loss is a powerful sensation and shouldn't be taken lightly. Unless you are extremely confident in your mental capacities, ego-loss can be extremely uncomfortable (although ironically, you don't become aware you lost your ego until afterwards. It is impossible to comprehend ego-loss while you are actually tripping, as you have no sense of self)

For a light psychadelic I'd recommend 2C-I. Its very visual but doesn't distort your thoughts much.

[sparkchaser]

Mescaline IS an analog of DMT, or more like a cousin. Not all people experience nausea from mescalin, I didn't. If you don't get the nausea, I think it's a really great trip, not too strong but definitely strong enough, and who can argue with 10+ hours of imagination land!

[nbk2000]

2-CB is supposedly a very intense drug. Not so much because of any kind of high or tripping, but because of the intense emotional response...like ectasy, only much more intense.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Mescaline: trimethoxyphenethylamine
DMT: dimethyltryptamine

questions?



ps: Yes, if I had to describe 2-CB as anything, it'd be an odd cousin of MDMA

[Hobbit Porn]

You could try LSA by ingesting Hawiian baby woodrose or morning glory seeds.

There are different techniques people use to try prevent the nausea that is often associated with the seeds, but the main benefit is that these are cheap as anything, so if you find you don't like it, you are only out a dollar or two, compared to whatever some one might charge you for some acid, which may or my not turn out to be what you paid for anyway.

Look at erowid or the lycaeum for more info HBWR and morning glory seeds.

[c.Tech]

Those seeds would have to be grown for I’m quite sure the ones which are sold would have the LSA taken out or coated with a substance so people can’t eat them. But I forgot where I’ve heard that.

[L012DofWAR]

Yeah, most retailers who sell morning glory seeds do put some sort of coating or poison on the outside to prevent people from getting LSA. However, a friend of mine boiled them and said that it took the coating off easily. The downside is that he had to eat quite a few (50-75) to feel the effects.

Also, most acid doesn't cost more than 1-3 dollars a hit, and you really only need one or two.

[Cobalt.45]

If you ever get the chance to take apart a wood rose, you'll see that the difficulty involved for the benefit derived isn't worth the trouble, IMHO.

This assumes that the seeds are to be taken from the "rose", not from a bag of seeds.

If LSD is a "10" and mescaline, say, a "6", wood rose would be a weak ~2 at best.

[Hobbit Porn]

I’m quite sure the ones which are sold would have the LSA taken out or coated with a substance so people can’t eat them.

Not completely true... although the seeds you were to buy from a large chain or something might have them sprayed with pesticides and stuff, there are alot of online nurseries that sell them with a treatment of only food grade sulfur.

Cobalt.45 : I'll agree that woodrose seeds aren't on the same scale in acctivity as LSD or mescaline, I just put the suggestion forward since unlike mescaline and LSD, woodrose seeds are cheap. You get what you pay for I guess.

[c.Tech]

Do the seeds you buy from a large chain supplier grow? I see no reason why they shouldn't.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

All I've got to add as of right now without sounding like an ass (who recommends salvia as a first time experiance? Ugh), is check erowid.org before you do any substance. Read about it's effects, doses, other peoples experiances, the legality in your locality, etc etc. Don't just rely on this forum, do your homework.

But then again, doesn't that apply to everything on this forum?

[Hobbit Porn]

C.tech : of course the seeds from large chain suppliers grow... thats what they are sold for.

However, like most plants, there are different strains that give different yeilds of the desirable compounds. So some specialty nurseries would be better to get seed from then others.

[sparkchaser]

ShadowMyGeekSpace, thanks for setting the record straight, I thought mescalin was a tryptamine. Seeing how it's a phenethylamine, I guess it would be closer to MDMA than DMT (that would explain the body sensations!). I have heard that San Pedro contains a small amount of 5-MeO-DMT, among other analogs, but I don't know if it's enough to be active.

As for seed coatings, there are many suppliers that sell both HBWR and morning glory seeds with no coating. They're fairly common in smartshops in the Netherlands. I would be carefull going through a large U.S. chain though, the coatings are designed to prevent ingestion, and deter rodents and mold.

Active component of seeds is said to be LSA, close cousin to LSD. I know that a few grams of seeds need to be ingested for any activity at all, so I'm wondering how much it would take to be more than a "2".

[Chris The Great]

Mescaline is very intense if purified completely and used intravenously. This also avoids the problems of feeling sick. There was some discussion of this over at wetdreams recently. The user said that the trip (he took A LOT) was more intense than anything else he had ever tried.

[Gerbil]

Speaking from experience, morning glory seeds work well. That said, I got them from an actual headshop (online), not ones destined for growing.

200-400 are really needed to get the full effect package (open-eye fractals, etc).

[beirut]

Red Beret, you might be interested in reading some of Alexander Shulgin's works. If you unfamiliar with him, he was one of the main psychedelic research scientists for the United States government. He's most widely known for being the "reinventor of MDMA."

When the government revoked his research license he published several volumes of him early research, which include synthesis, dosage, and most interestingly commentary on Shulgin's personal experiences with the drugs (he tested them all himself before reporting to his superiors :P).

Some of the trips he had were just wild. Erowid has partial copies of two of his books, PIHKAL and TIHKAL.

Here are the links if you are interested:
'http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal.shtml'
'http://www.erowid.org/library/books/pihkal.shtml'

[Lewis]

I would strongly advise anyone against taking morning glory seeds. They are not difficult to come by, as the plant grows in huge numbers in back alleys where I come from. However, they will not give you a pleasant, or even educational trip.

Of course, with psychadelic drugs, there is no standard drug or dosage to compare to. It is next to impossible to determine with any accuracy at all how fast a trip will set in, how long it will last, and what it will be like.

If psychadelics are to be used at all, I would again recommend mushrooms.

[Gerbil]

However, they will not give you a pleasant, or even educational trip.

I'd have to disagree...to an extent. If they're used in very relaxed, quiet settings, then the effects are certainly pleasant.

If they're misused- they have a habit of turning around and hitting you in the face (again speaking from unfortunate experience). This was at a high dose though.

Personally, though, I'd recommend salvia above them. If you know a good chemist, then LSD's also an option.

[Cobalt.45]

If you know a good chemist, then LSD's also an option.

Not too likely. Some things must be assessed as being worth a calculated risk or not. LSD is one of those things.

If you have no experience obtaining these things, you're better off doing nothing rather than risking your health or freedom.

Salvia is shit, plain and simple. To say that the experience obtained under the influence of salvia in any way mimics a "trip" in the traditional sense, is ludicrous.

The only thing that salvia is good for, IMO, is a hearty laugh at the expense of the stroke who just took it.

Go find a cow pasture. Go the morning after a rain and pick some mushrooms. It ain't acid, but you'll get the idea. If you like the experience, consider LSD. If you can safely obtain it, that is.

[sparkchaser]

I actually prefer mushrooms to LSD, and mescaline cactus over the both. Every drug is like that, either you like it or you don't, or you like something better than something else. Nobody can really say which is better for whom. The best thing I can say is; try them all in a safe, sane environment (not at the same time obviously) and decide which is the best for you. Be sure to pay attention to recommended doses!

[Nyax]

I also prefer mushrooms, although picking any random mushrooms in a pasture is suicide!!

The difference between good mushrooms and painful death mushrooms is subtle. I would recommend buying from someone you trust, or growing your own. As for Salvia, it needs to be smoked with a hotter flame than the one from a lighter, and sensitivity highly differs from person to person.

[Hobbit Porn]

You don't have to smoke salvia, the traditional way of ingesting it was to chew on a quid of it.However you need fresh leaves for that, which can be a bit more tricky to get.

If you are living in a country where salvia is still legal and haven't had any desirable effects with the leaf, try get an extract instead. THere are plenty of online vendors that sell extracts aswell as dry leaf.

[fused]

I've never tried it and I doubt I will, so I can't speak as to how effective or just what the effects are, but as far as ease of acquisition, morning glory seeds is what I would go after.

Just go get some and grow them. They grow like nuts and are pretty cheap. They grow wild where I am from. Then harvest the seeds and experiment in small doses. Here is some info.

http://peyote.com/jonstef/morning.htm

http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning_glory/morning_glory_basics.shtml

Just a quick google.. not sure of the reputation of those sites.

[nbk2000]

I remember reading something about morning glory seeds from some suppliers being coated with a toxic chemical, supposedly to preserve them or some-such, but actually making them sickening to anyone who ingests them to get high.

[ultma]

It is just about autumn time in NZ, time for some of these.
They grow all over town in the centre plots, at my work, every where. It’s more fun finding and picking them than taking them.
Probably to do with having 250 liberties when I first tried them I thought I was dead then fall asleep just before it wore off :eek:

Fresh is best, eat them whole.

Dont get me started on mixing these with a small dose of brugmansia (red tree datura)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7779/dscn1043hp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4547/dscn1040sn7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

I remember reading something about morning glory seeds from some suppliers being coated with a toxic chemical, supposedly to preserve them or some-such, but actually making them sickening to anyone who ingests them to get high.
That's why you wash them off.

[c.Tech]

'http://www.ebasedprevention.org/oewn.asp?id=2817'
To discourage morning glory's use as hallucinogenic drugs, some commercial seed producers have started treating seeds with a chemical that will not wash off. This chemical has been known to cause vomiting, nausea and abdominal pain. Seeds are also sometimes treated with Methyl mercury to prevent spoilage. These in themselves are poisonous and can cause liver and neurological damage (to the brain and nerves). Nausea is common even with untreated seeds.

Your better off growing safe ones, methyl mercury isn't my cup of tea. Especially if it hits you 6 months later unexpected.

EDIT: Good online books about mushrooms. Look for other online books in erowid.
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/magic_mushrooms_aunz/magic_mushrooms_aunz.shtml
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/mushroom_pioneers/mushroom_pioneers.shtml