$20 Radar Guns at Wal-Mart

[nbk2000]

I was at Wal-Mart the other day and saw a Hotwheels Radar Gun toy on sale for $20.

Naturally, I thought it was some cheap toy that would only work on their little cars, but I googled it when I got back home.

Shocked the shit out of me when I found out that the things are REAL K-band radar guns that work! :eek:

Holy shit!

Works up to 100MPH, and only $20!

BUY!

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4661205

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Great find nbk! How's the range?

[nbk2000]

Under 40 feet, depending on size/speed/RCS.

A big thread about them, and modifications too:

http://www.austech.info/showthread.php?t=135840&page=1

Link to the FCC certification specs and tests required to get the toy approved for sale (PDF's):

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout%20=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=157093&fcc_i%20d='PIYJ2358-06A1T

All the technical specs needed. :)

At $20, it seems ready-made for making proximity fuzes for airbursting shells over the ground, and for anti-helicopter devices.

[augoldminer]

Any one have military fighter jets flying in there area.

If you have a radar gun aim it at the jet.

If the missile warning system is turned on this will freak out the pilot.
As it will show the same as a missile lock on.

Be warned that you may find out what a fighter jet looks like at close up and at high speed. As one cop found out in my area. [NWC. China Lake Calif.]

[megalomania]

I saw that yesterday in the Wal-mart advertisement. I asked somebody if that was a crappy toy or a real radar gun. I would never have thought for only $20 that the thing would actually work. Any toy that encourages children to play in traffic has got to be a good idea...

I might stick one in my car just to piss off people with radar detectors :)

[nbk2000]

It's an extremely low powered radar unit, something like .2mW, and can barely trigger a radar detector from inside the car.

Which means the jet jockeys aren't going to even know you're 'painting' them.

And if you DID somehow manage to do so, you might find out what a HARM missile looks like up close and personal. ;)

[sparkchaser]

Helicopters in Iraq also have a laser detector. From first hand experience I can tell you that a laser pistol sight will freak a helo pilot, if that's your aim. (no pun intended)

Cool thing about helicopters is; they don't come after you, they just start dodging and dancing!

[Cobalt.45]

Cool thing about helicopters is; they don't come after you, they just start dodging and dancing!
And, if you piss off an Apache jockey w/ TADS/PNVS, you'll get to find out how hot Hellfire really is!:eek:

[megalomania]

I was checking these out at wal mart today. It has both a small scale mode for clocking your matchbox cars, and a life size mode for clocking big objects. There is also a kilometers per hour and miles per hour selector switch. They priced these at exactly $20.00, no $19.99 or the usual wal mart $19.88 tactic.

This sounded a bit fishy to me. The instructions say matchbox cars are 1/64 scale, so however fast you clock your car multiply by 64. They had an example that had the car going at over 1000 miles per hour. Is that math correct? Is 1 mph on a 1/64 scale actually 64 mph in real life? The last thing I want to do when playing with toys is apply higher mathematics :)

Unless you are currently in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Palestine, I would not expect any return fire from a helicopter or fighter jet. If you are in any of the aforementioned countries I doubt you have either the money for or access to toys of any kind. Ironically you can buy AK-47s, but no toys.

[krackerjack9]

Well I am over here in Iraq and I cant be 100% but if you did as one suggested I be pretty sure a little package will be sent right back in the location it came from. On that note, I doubt these would have enough juice to set off the sensor but I could wrong.
LSA, Anaconda Iraq

[chemofun]

I haven't had the chance to look at it yet. Does it look like it can be hacked or souped up easily?

[Altroman]

While this may not emit enough directed RF to trigger an attack warning sensor aboard a military aircraft, the case with civilian aircraft may be different (WRT communications, FAA safety concerns, etc.) since the beam is pulsed and so may screw up X-band comm. gear. Even if it is done in jest, the police may overreact (go figure?) and arrest or fine you anyway. This guy learned the hard way . . .

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:YzvhWe6b1xkJ:www.policeone.com/suspect-pursuit/articles/508483/+laser+pointer+police+helicopter+arrest&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

The risks of being punished for painting a newscopter with RF are extremely low, but then again, these are strange times.

[nbk2000]

Souped up? Likely not.

But hackable? Eminently. :)

[c.Tech]

Apparently when approaching speed cameras (the ones with an asshole holding them, not fixed) another speed camera can jumble them. So there would be less of a chance of getting caught if you ran your radar whilst driving.

[Jacks Complete]

Brilliant! If it is really low power, then it is going to be easier to make into an LPI radar system! LPI stands for "Low probability of Intercept".

Get a few of these, and tweak them to different frequencies, and then you can use them in a pseudo random sequence of short bursts to paint a target and not be noticed. Same sort of thing as a secure radio can do.

Start with a low power, too, and increase it until you get a return you can measure, then stop increasing it. Then break contact, and then do it again, and so on. This decreases the odds they will detect it as anything more than noise.

By using the system on short duty cycles, and in short bursts as well, you will find that the radar part (which is probably an IC of some form) can be used at far beyond it's rated power, much like an LED can be boosted to a far higher power in exchange for greater losses and shorter life.

c.Tech, yes, you can jam a radar gun. I suggest trying it on a set of automatic doors first, though, since the power of a cops radar gun is far higher than this toy is going to be. Also, cops outside the US generally don't use X-band for anything, as X band is the original old stuff, with new stuff going instead for Ku and Ka, as well as IR laser and video traps. So you would have an issue jamming it at the wrong frequencies. Further, the X band is actually a really wide frequency range!

The best thing to do would be to get a gun that was nearby in frequency, so it set up beat frequencies. These would do a lot to scramble the signal, rather than jamming it directly. You would probably want a directional aerial someplace, too, to shove all the power in the direction you want, for the usual cost of greater care needed when aiming.

[nbk2000]

I wonder if the super-cheap RADAR TX used in the Hotwheels toy would have any jamming effect against the through-wall scanners being developed, such as this one:

http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/prism200

[JakeGallows]

I wonder if the super-cheap RADAR TX used in the Hotwheels toy would have any jamming effect against the through-wall scanners being developed

Wouldn't surprise me... Though from the videos it looks like just standing still might defeat it as well. :rolleyes:

[Jacks Complete]

Best defeat for that scanner would be to line your house with aluminium siding, or, for the cheaper option, line the walls with foil before you paper it. Anything conductive will mess it right up. A standard cheap radar detector should also pick it up, but I wouldn't rely on that as the power might be too low.

I was going to post that link, but NBK has, as almost always, beaten me to it. :)

[nbk2000]

The device operates at 1.7–2.2 GHz, which falls within the following frequencies:

L-band 1-2 GHz
S-band 2-4 GHz.

None of which are picked up by police radar detectors. :(

I also noticed how everyone in the demo video was swaying a little, which obviously means that some movement is required for detection. :)

Now, if a person was to take long foil streamers and make throwies out of them to attached to the ceiling, that'd effectively act as chaff against their radar, making it nearly impossible to seperate which echo is a person standing still, and which is a foil streamer.

Obviously, gross movement like walking around would stand out, but that's only part of the picture.

While Googling for this info, I accidently typed in RADSAR, which turns out to be another form of RADAR, this be for millimetric imaging using synthetic aperature RADAR.

[voivod]

I just saw a "speed gun" published in an electronics magazine the other day, it's due to come out as a kit at Jaycar but way more expensive than $20. Uses a homemade cantenna.

Also this PDF shows a similar one as well http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/downloads/manuals/SG7.pdf

The Wallmart toys are supposed to be really inaccurate but if you know what you're doing I've heard you can calibrate them. At $20 you can't complain.

[megalomania]

Here we go... seems the model people like big radar guns...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611601

This guy modified a Hot Wheels radar gun to get 20x the range, but that was still not good enough. Hopefully he will upload the schematics soon; just pics for now. The thread also includes some info on making radar reflectors for RC planes.

Here is a link from that thread to a website with DIY radar gun plans:
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_107875/article.html

Here is a radar gun kit from the ramsey website voivod just posted:
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SG7

Here is the best of the line a mere mortal could get... I wonder what those patents they speak of are?
http://www.stalkerradar.com/sports_pro.shtml

[Altroman]

One of the simplest ways to screw up an MTI (Moving Target Indicating) radar is to use an ordinary ceiling fan with foil-covered blades running on low speed. This same method is used as a "mode-scrambler" in microwave ovens to distribute the RF energy within the cavity. However in a room, this would serve to create randomly varying path lengths, thus generating lots of Doppler clutter which would really screw up an RF imager, even if it is not in the center of the beam (gosh, I like it when diffraction actually helps us . . .) The beauty of this method is that by placing the foil on the top of the blades, noone knows it's there . . .
I know this method lacks the robustness of converting your house into a TEMPEST enclosure, but it's inexpensive and besides, ceiling fans will increase the resale value of any bunker.

[voivod]

Heh wasn't the foil on the fan busted by Mythbusters? On other news however Rocky Mountain Radars tried to obtain FCC license for a passive radar scrambler and were denied it as the srcambler "interfered with a properly licensed" device even though the scrambler was a passive device (ie energised by the police radar gun). Funny to read http://www.fcc.gov/ogc/documents/opinions/1998/rockymtn.html shows how big money talks common sense walks.

Oh this might be of interest, in Megalomania's link above to the Silicon Chip article you'll find you have to pay to read the full article, however if you use the link http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/articles/i1078/107875_?mg.jpg and substitute ? for the numbers 1 through 14 you get acess to all the article pictures including the schematics (not terribly high res but readable enough). Enjoy

[Big Mac]

Still quite primitive. For some reason it reminded me of the movie "Escape from New York". Also, you could easily defeat the motion sensor with a very very simple thing (depending on how much mass is required for it to pick up an object). Either one of those automated vacuums or an even cheaper model....those little toy ferrets on that rolling ball. The radar would go crazy if the mass requirement is not too high. Wouldn't know I didn't read too much but it seems still in its infancy.

[Jacks Complete]

It is in it's development stage, but it will improve. I'd go for defence in depth. TEMPEST shield (since it won't be 100%) and moving metallic targets (which will vary by location, speed and more) both sound good as they are complimentary.
A hamster wheel is going to do sod all. You want metals, and you want retro-reflectors. These reflect EM well, and a combo of both would be best.

I wonder how a high strength magnet embedded in the wall would affect it?

[nbk2000]

It good to have a prepared place if you know ahead of time that this is a possible threat against you.

But, often times, you have to fight your battles where the enemy and circumstances dictate, meaning you need to be prepare to improvise.

Also, you can use tactics instead of hardware, as the piggies operate on patterns (RTPB), which means you can use their assumptions against them. :)

Police assume that during a hostage situation, that the hostages will be seated, and the criminal will be the one walking around.

Thus, flip it around, and make one of the hostages walk around, while you are seated amoungst the hostages (who are all restrained) who will be human shields.

The one walking around has a fake gun superglued into his hand, a ski-mask over his face, and a ball gag in his mouth so he can't yell to the cops that he's not a criminal. :D

Meanwhile, a super-thin spectra fiber line is leashed around him so he can't take off running. :p

All the hostages can be hooded with opaque hoods, while the one you are wearing (to make you look like a hostage too) is actually transparent enough for you to gun down the piggies from behind, after they've taken out the 'criminal' who refused to put down his weapon. ;)

[Jacks Complete]

Genius. I've said it before, and it's true. You're a Very Evil genius. :-)

Further, if you know that you and the hostages are going to be below head height, you can rig other things to happen. Say about 1 foot over your seated head height? Sharp and dangerously fast things.

Totally OT, I thought of a good idea for a quick way to stop a SWAT team. Run a gas pipe along the floor, with the vent attached to the door. They enter, gas comes on. They reach the door at the other end, gas lights. They run or burn or explode. One moving part, no explosive, no chance. If they were wearing gas masks, they would stand no chance of smelling it. And you leave under the cover of an inferno.

Or use a smothering gas like CO or CO2. They would be dead even if they realised before passing out with CO poisoning. They would drop dead after a few minutes at most, and some would start to fall in a few seconds. Your choice.

[nbk2000]

I was inspired to superglue the gun in hand by the final scene in the movie F/X. :)

[lemons]

Best defeat for that scanner would be to line your house with aluminium siding, or, for the cheaper option, line the walls with foil before you paper it.


If lining the walls with foil worked, I'd imagine the scanner doesn't work well to begin with, since most walls will have insulation with foil backing.

[Torvaun]

Hostage situation is fairly easy. Combination Snowcrash and Swordfish/Pandora Tomorrow. The Swordfish aspect is that, once armed, the explosive collar is triggered by the end of a radio transmission. Hostage tries to run, boom. Snowcrash has a guy who's got a literal deadman's switch. Electrode to chest, if your heart stops, that turns off the radio transmission. Just make sure the people who would like the hostages back intact know about the system, it doesn't do you any good to have a sniper hit you, only to have the hostages all explode.

Really, the only thing hostages are good for is buying time. They will not get you out safely, they will not secure the release of other people. If you are going to take hostages, you need to have a secure exit already. You need to have a task that both must be completed, and takes a long time to complete as well, otherwise it's useless. I suppose breaking a security system would count, as well as using your time to rig up an ambush.