Kno3...

[no_fear]

I've read multiple topics on KNO3 but the thing is that I've only heard of 2 places that sell it: pharmacies as Salt Peter and Hardware/Gardening stores as Potassium Nitrate ( a type of fertilizer, correct?).

Ok, so here's my problem. I asked one of the chemistry teachers at my school where I could get some and he said that there aren't any places that sell it and if there is a place, you need to have a certain type of license to get it.

So tell me, is he just lying because he knows what it can do, or is he telling the truth? If you guy's think he's lying, where do you think I could get some? I have tried a few places but the thing is that I'm in a big town so there aren't many places that have farm stuff (I think that was one of the places that was mentioned that you could buy KNO3 at) and there are no local pharmacies; only the big chain ones like Walgreens and Sav-On (i think local pharmacies were other places listed to find KNO3)

[c.Tech]

It really depends on where you live, and if you cant find any of it for its fertilizer uses you could go buy some from a chemical supplier.

EDIT: Some people have also found it as stump remover.

There is also ways to easily make it from other more common fertilisers.

[no_fear]

Well, that was the other thing I asked my teacher. I asked about chemical suppliers and he said there arent any in this area that he knows of. I'm gonna try the phonebook or internet. In case I can't find one, what are those other fetilizers that work, and how do I have to prepare them to turn them into KNO3.

[c.Tech]

what are those other fetilizers that work, and how do I have to prepare them to turn them into KNO3.

UTFSE (use the fukin' search engine) its been discussed before.

[no_fear]

My bad. Still getting used to some things here

[Gerbil]

What part of the world are you in?

[Olib]

In my local supermarket you can buy little(200 gram) containers of KNO3.
It´s sold as a meat preservant.It´s good if you only want small amounts for nitrating things,Sucrose/KNO3 rockets etc.

[no_fear]

What part of the world are you in?

I'm in the US. West coast, if that matters.

In my local supermarket you can buy little(200 gram) containers of KNO3.
It´s sold as a meat preservant.It´s good if you only want small amounts for nitrating things,Sucrose/KNO3 rockets etc.

What section of the store? I tried the pharmacy and saw nothing.

[nbk2000]

Nitrate or Nitrite?

I've only ever seen the Nitrite being sold as a meat preservative.

[no_fear]

That might matter a little bit...

[Cypher-X]

its called EBAY!!!! surprisingly u can buy Potassium NiTRATE on EBAY!!!! at like 11-60 pound quantities, or united nuclear
http://search.ebay.com/potassium-nitrate_W0QQfromZR10QQssPageNameZWLRS

its not very expensive and its lab grade so good for making whatever u want

[nbk2000]

And what kind of idiots sell a kilo and charge $4.89 for the product, and $39.43 for shipping?

Even more puzzling is the idiots who actually BUY it! :rolleyes:

[Cobalt.45]

There are eBayer's who don't fuck you too bad.

The last KNO3 I bought cost $42.41/11lb, delivered. Only about thrice what it's worth...:p

[Olib]

Nitrate or Nitrite?

I've only ever seen the Nitrite being sold as a meat preservative.

In the process of food preservation, potassium nitrate is a rare ingredient of salted meat,As a preservative it can be known as E252.(wikipedia)

I can assure you it´s nitrate. Or else some of my experiments would have gone plenty wrong:)

[Olib]

I'm in the US. West coast, if that matters.



What section of the store? I tried the pharmacy and saw nothing.

You probably won´t find it in supermarkets in the US but in Iceland it´s found in the spice section

[no_fear]

Alright thanks Olib.

And I did check eBay for the fun of it and I saw some pretty weird things there. Anything from a few kilos up to 200 lbs for $125.00 and like maybe $20 shipping (which probably isn't an exaggeration). The guy selling the 200 lbs of it had like a 98.5% approval rating meaning he hasn't had too many unhappy customers, and he hasn't screwed too many people either. So yea, I'm not sure if I would buy 200 lbs but I might think of it because nowhere around here seems to sell it. There is a feed store about 30-45 minutes from my house that I could probably get my friend to drive me to. But in the mean time, I think I'm gonna try AP until I can get some KNO3.

BTW, what is a good price of KNO3?
$/lb or $/kg... either 1...

-----------------------

I was just looking at eBay again for the fun of it, and one of the headlines was "Potassium Nitrate, KCLO3"
Now, I don't think there's too much of a difference, but I dunno if i wanna trust these people.

[c.Tech]

I was just looking at eBay again for the fun of it, and one of the headlines was "Potassium Nitrate, KCLO3"
Now, I don't think there's too much of a difference, but I dunno if i wanna trust these people.

KClO3 is potassium chlorate, KNO3 is potassium nitrate, if they can’t get the chemical formula right of what they’re selling don’t trust them.

[Alexires]

I was just looking at eBay again for the fun of it, and one of the headlines was "Potassium Nitrate, KCLO3"
Now, I don't think there's too much of a difference, but I dunno if i wanna trust these people.

And yes, there is plenty of difference between KClO4 (note the upper and lower case) and KNO3.

Personally, I would give my left testicle for and unlimited supply of KClO4.

For instance, you can make black powder with KNO3 but if you tried it with KClO4 you would probably end up blowing your fingers off.

Also, if you're dreaming about making AP, please check out the "Beginners Guide to AP" thread. You don't want to end up like Phone.

[no_fear]

Yea, I know there's a difference between KNO3 and KClO4. That was a typo in my post about it. I thought I saw something that said that there wasn't too much a difference between the two. I guess I read that wrong, which is a good thing that I haven't tried to make black powder with KClO4. And to c.Tech, I wasn't planning on trusting them.

Anyways, Alexires... you said "if you're deaming about making AP". does that mean that its something hard to do or just a bit dangerous. And I saw that thread and thats the reason I was gonna try to make it. It seemes easy to make and maybe no too dangerous, but whats your opinion with newbies and AP?

[stupid939]

If you are dreaming about making something, you can't really be doing it, right? So if I say I had a dream that I made 2 AP caps today, I couldn't have possibly made them. Get it?

AP is extremely easy to make, but it is very dangerous if made in large quantities (poor Phone) or not neutralized or treated properly.

I would definitely advise that you do more research on BP chemicals, and maybe take a chemistry course so that you know whats going on with the components. I don't know why Alexires mentioned AP because you should stay away from it until you are comfortable making BP and other pyro compositions. Good luck

[no_fear]

Alright I get it now.

I'm actually taking chemistry right now and like looking around this website is helping me understand it a little more, and then chemistry is helping me understand this stuff more, also. So yea, thats pretty cool.

I'm gonna definitely try BP then I saw the thread on AP and it said it was easy for beginners so I though I might try that first. The thing about AP is that the chemicals for it are so much easier for me to get a hold of. At the moment, I'm having a little trouble finding KNO3, but hydrogen peroxide and nail polish remover is really nothing.

If you think BP is better, I will try to find some KNO3.

[stupid939]

I'm not saying that BP is better, but it depends what you want to use it for. You can't really make BP caps, but if you want to venture into high explosives, you will probably make AP eventually.

If you are just a pyro, and are interested in making your own compositions, BP is for you. I started out with BP eventually got to AP and other explosives. I still use BP for all kinds of pyro formulas and mortars, etc, but its up to you on where you want to start.

[mrtnira]

No_fear,

Please don't approach chemicals without healthy safety practices in place. I say this, because of your use of the word "cool", and it sounds as if you are just starting out on your path of study.

Accidents with chemicals can be permanent and rapid in their effect.

Also, I used to do a lot of work with photo-chemicals, as did my father, and his father. Both father and grand father died with lung damage because of exposure to airborne photo-chemicals, both from making their own solutions in bulk (chemical dust), and from chemicals escaping solution into the air (fumes). So, some damage is progressive and also permanent.

Safety is paramount. Please pay attention in your chemistry classes.

[D Moon]

Salpeter is sold in sweden in your local store as meat preserver look in the spice section ;)

[no_fear]

Alright then stupid, that sounds good.

And to mrtnira, I'm gonna make sure that I'm extremely careful. I've been reading a lot of the posts here on AP and BP and all different types of explosive and what has happened to people who messed up.

You guys mention Phone a lot and although I don't know exactly what happened, and what he was doing to make it happen, I don't wanna end up like that. After reading some things about AP and having his name come up in those threads, I think you guys almost scared me out of AP for a little bit because I admit that I'm not that experienced with chemicals but if I'm using something that I know could blow me up at any moment, I know that I'm going to be extremely careful and cautious about what I do.

And you mentioned your father and grandfather... I'm sorry about them, BTW, but I dunno how much stuff I'll do with photo-chemicals, but I know not to breathe in any fumes or anything like that, and if I'm in a position to, my dad has a gas mask that I will borrow.

I know you guys might worry about some of the newbies or k3wL-like people, but I'm not dumb enough to just throw some random chemicals together.

[stupid939]

Well since we're already off the subject so much, you can read about phone here.

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=2311&highlight=storing+ap

To sum things up, he made 1 kilo (2.2 lbs) of AP and killed himself.

Back on subject, there's a guy that documents all of his rocketry experiments. He says he buys KNO3 for about $28, and he lives in CA. I figured that you might live in CA (west coast), so if you want to contact him, his site is:

www.inverseengineering.com (http://www.inverseengineering.com)

[no_fear]

I'm actually in Las Vegas, NV, so shipping wouldn't be much and I'll talk to him to see if he'll send me some at that price or if he makes an eBay auction or something and I directly buy from there or sumthing(to be more safe for him, scam-wise).

Oh, and I see about Phone now. Well, needless to say, I'm not gonna be making 1 kilo of AP anytime soon, and if I do, then I dunno what would have to be wrong with me because right now, im a little scared of a few grams after all the stories.

[Sausagemit]

A while ago I ordered 22lbs of super fine powdered KNO3 off of ebay for $67.?? shipped and I was going to split it with a friend who is into rocketry. They were out of the super fine so they offered to send me granulated and a free pound of 600 mesh atomized aluminium :) . My friend did not want granulated (i still have no idea why) so I got stuck with all of it. I have no idea what the hell I'm going to use 22lbs of KNO3 for but I coldn't pass up a deal like that. The quality is pretty decent, I would say it's over 99.0% pure. I'm probabbly never going to need to buy KNO3 for the rest of my life unless I start selling BP :rolleyes:

[no_fear]

Selling the BP you make would be great. Also KNO3/Sucrose smoke bombs could probably sell well to any friends that go paintballing that are maybe a little chemically challenged. But um.... is 22 lbs for $67 that good of a deal? I thought something like a $1/lb was about a normal deal for KNO3, or i guess a little more than $1

[Olib]

I have no idea what the hell I'm going to use 22lbs of KNO3 for

C´mon 22 lbs of KNO3 you should be happy!
There are endless things you can make with it
1.blackpowder
2.Massive KNO3/sucrose rockets
3.Nitrocellulose
4.Picric acid
5.Smoke bombs etc.

Or you could just sell some K3wlz and tell them THEY CAN MAKE BLACKPOWDER :eek: :eek: and sell it for 100 bucks..:D

[Sausagemit]

But um.... is 22 lbs for $67 that good of a deal? I thought something like a $1/lb was about a normal deal for KNO3, or i guess a little more than $1

Acctually right around $4/lb is normal, or at least everywhere I was looking. And don't forget that was the final price including shipping!!! If I would have got the same stuff from Skylighter it would have cost me about $140.00 :eek:

I've never acctually made KNO3 Sucrose rockets but I really want too and will definatly try. I was just thinking about it and I could make a 1lb rocket for right around $5 :D

And I wasn't lamenting the fact that I have 22lbs of KNO3, more shocked about what the hell I'm going to do with it.

[deadman]

I pay fifty cents a pound for my potassium nitrate. You asked a good price and I consider this a good price.

Phone was a kewl that decided to make an insanley huge batch of AP. Somewhere between 800g and 1Kg, I don't think it was ever entirely determined. He had it lying out on newspaper with lamps to speed up drying. He also had packs of ammonium nitrate lying around. These I am sure didn't detonate, but the AP runaway was enough to kill him the same night he had boasted on this forum about making so much AP at one time.

[c.Tech]

He also had packs of ammonium nitrate lying around. These I am sure didn't detonate, but the AP runaway was enough to kill him the same night he had boasted on this forum about making so much AP at one time.

1:3 APAN sounds like it would detonate to me unless it was wet, I will say I’m sure it did detonate not that it changes a thing because his still dead :p.

[10fingers]

Potassium Nitrate is easy to find where I live. You can get it at a greenhouse supplier. It's about $25.00 for 22 kgs., so about a .50 cents a pound. It's called greenhouse grade and seems to be of reasonably good purity. It works well for rocket propellant.
I have also seen it on e-bay for cheap. Anyone who can't find it here is just plain lazy.

[nbk2000]

I remember, about 20 years ago, dragging home (on the bus) a 50 pound sack of Chilean Saltpeter (NaNO3) that I had bought for something like $20, from a gardening store. :)

That was a pain in the back, but a comparative bargain to what everyone seems to be going through today.

[deadman]

c. Tech: If you remember in the pics, the ammonium nitrate was still in the cold packs. So it was most likely prilled without any sensitizer, and not to close to the AP piles. If this is all it takes to detonate AN, I'm going the wrong way about it. On the other hand 800g+ acetone peroxide is a lot more than I've ever seen.

10fingers: That is less than a dollar per pound. 22 Kg is about 48.5 pounds.

nbk2000: Did you do the whole KCl + NaNO3 process, or was it good enough for what you needed? I don't think I could go through that much sodium nitrate before it become unusable.

[fiknet]

...These I am sure didn't detonate, but the AP runaway was enough to kill him the same night he had boasted on this forum about making so much AP at one time.

As far as I know there has never been a case of the AP synthesis running away and causing detonation and IIRC he was killed by a device he built when he went down to the park with his buddies to set it off and it ended up going off on him.

[10fingers]

Thanks for the correction deadman. It would be about $1.00 per Kg., or 50 cents per lb. roughly. It's dirt cheap anyway.
It's unfortunate about this guy blowing himself up with AP. Why in the hell anyone would make or store this much is beyond me. Even the manufacturers of primarys who know what they're doing never keep this much in one place. And there material is more stable and of a higher purity. Not too smart.

[nbk2000]

I never used more than a few pounds of it, but at that price, who cares? :)

[deadman]

hmm... I always thought runaway meant when a HE detonates during preparation. After searching google for a bit, it seams like it might be some sort of y-ray releasing "phenomenon". Could someone please clarify?

[Sausagemit]

I need to get out more!!! Every place I checked around here, even the farm supply stores, had it for around $4-$5 a pound. Mabye it's a rare commodity in this state. Now I don't feel like I got that good of a deal :(

[nbk2000]

I get it for $2/pound as stump remover at the hardware store. :p

[Pollsmoor]

Hi all (*newbie wave*)

Google gave me a link to this forum after I found myself with a little more Potassium Nitrate than I had bargained for. So I guess this is the place to start posting.


BTW, what is a good price of KNO3?


Datapoint : I paid the equivalent of 1 1/2 flats (36 cans) of beer [1] for 25 kilos of the stuff.

Story : I work at a company that manufactures electronic *mumbles*. We use IsoPropa-whatsit Alcohol (IPA) in fairly large quantities -- get it from a chemical supply house.

In my own time, I play with, amongst other things, guns. Around this part of the world there's been a bit of a surge in Black Power shooting [2]. Of course the supply of BP is regulated, with all kinds of rules about competency and storage and the amount you may have and the serial number of the firearm you want to shoot it in, so I havn't bothered going there.

But I ran across the musketeer website in Switzerland, and a little lightbulb went on as to why my earlier experiments sort of... fizzled... And the cost of BP, once all the hoops have been jumped and the red tape applied, is somewhere around four flats per kilo.

Anyway, so I asked the purchasing department to ask the chemical supply house about KNO3. And lo and behold, I was informed that the MOQ is 25 kilos, at the (to me) pretty good price of around a beer and a half per kilo.

The stuff arrived in a bag marked as fertilizer. From Israel, which is nowhere near where I am. I thought Ammonium Nitrate was the preferred nitrate fertiliser, guess I've learned something. Will have to abuse TFSE to find out whether KNO3 might have similar properties when mixed with fuel oil.

It's a fine powder, looks almost like flour (much finer than salt). Didn't have all kinds of nasty warnings on the bag, so I tasted it -- dissolves on my tongue with a coolness and a salty taste, but with a foul aftertaste [3]. I'm wondering how pure it is, will have to UTFSE to see if there's an easy way of finding out. Not that it matters.

So, if you're living in a country where gun control is a national pastime, and BP guns are easy to get but BP isn't, you might like to know that the chemical supply house that shares a name with some national flora is the place to speak to.

If not, then most of this post is probably irrellevant.

[1] I find that the exchange rate is too artificial, what is more important is what one can buy with your money [4]. And beer, being a staple, is a good indicator, IMO :-)

[2] In response to large scale legislation to get rid of the non-BP type weapons in private hands.

[3] Well, it *is* fertilizer after all, so why am I surprized?

[4] For those interested in the actual cost, it's around 80 cents US a kilo.

[Chris The Great]

Phone blew himself up setting it off, not from storing it. He still died from handling too much AP at one time though.

A runaway is when the reaction overheats, sometimes causing explosion, sometimes ignition, or perhaps boiling and the generation of toxic fumes or something. It depends on the compound, the batch size and the severity of the runaway.

[DONMAN]

I've only ever seen the Nitrite being sold as a meat preservative.

I have seen Nitrite used as a preservative for salmi, I noticed that about a week ago that listed in the ingredients was potassium nitrite and Potassium Nitrate.

[SafetyLast]

Spectracide makes a stump remover that is 100% KNO3, it's almost impossible to find it though. Bonide granular stump remover is NOT KNO3, but inert materials.
I've made it several times using AN and KCl, it's a bit impure from the NH4Cl but can still be used for most things.

[Bacon46]

I just bought 10kg (22lbs) of very clean KNO3 for $54.00 US including shipping from a guy on ebay. This was the second time I purchased KNO3 from this seller and both times it shipped fast. The sellers store is caled [name removed. NBK].

You have to go to his "store" and look at everything he's selling to find the best deal.
He has the same product listed several different ways (I have no idea why).

[DeathBlade]

I bought 50lbs from these guys last year for 24$ and about 20 for shipping so less than a dollar per pound
http://www.artistic-arborist.com/Fertilizers.htm

[209]

My my,I lookslike I am wellset up. I Have a chem "dealer"at school that can getmeany chemicalunder the sun, AND,my aunt it a school teacher,I have a copy of the school's chemistry cat. and can buy any glassware I need at the schools prices, try 5.99 each for a pyrex Buret!!!!!

[no_fear]

Lucky ass. I can't get anything. My aunt and uncle are teachers but I don't think they would approve of me buying explosive chemicals.

[Shalashaska]

Spectracide makes a stump remover that is 100% KNO3, it's almost impossible to find it though.

This brand is $4.95 at my Wal-Mart, and it's about 1.5 pounds of potassium nitrate. The MSDS shows no signs of additions or inhibitants.

[deadman]

Thanks for the runaway explanation. It actually clicked a while ago when I started looking into TNP and NG. I just haven't checked this thread in a while.

Not trying to be too specific, but when passing through Bakersfield, CA on Route 58 I found a pound of Spectracide for about 5 bucks at Lowe's. It was actually on Route 58, that town has some interesting road plans. Moral of the story: check Lowe's.