TRIEX, binary exp.

[EventHorizon]

I came across a compound called TRIEX in which two liquids are mixed, one appears to be nitromethane and the other a "red liquid". Its mixed 94% nm and 6% "component B (red liquid)" Anyone know what this is?

BTW, these pop up banners are really aggrivating. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

[cutefix]

If you say a binary explosive with nitromethane as the major ingredient with the remainder as unknown.I categorize this composition as similar to the Picatinny arsenal PLX binary explosive.I suspect that colored liquid(purposely dyed) is a sensitizer possiblly ethylenediamine or other similar amine like materials.That combination can be set off by a blasting cap.

[EventHorizon]

Said the Vdet was like 20,xxx fps. Sounded like a really nice material. Very insensitive to all tests.

[cutefix]

20,000 f/s is about 6060 m/s, that’s already a good explosive.That is within the range for this binary explosive VOD,depending on the quantity and quality of the sensitizer.Yet ,I’m perplexed to what you say that it is insensitive to all test,then that may be interpolated as an insensitive material not worth as an explosive.Nitromethane itself is insensitive to initiation by blasting cap,It need a good booster to set it off.Explosive technologist discovered that the presence of even 2% amine will make it cap sensitive ;however at higher levels of sensitizer the effect will be of diminishing returns-that is it will desensitize it and if ever detonated will lessen the explosive power.The optimum level was 6% of ethylenediamine ,diethylamine,morpholine,etc.
I was also thinking that it may not be pure nitromethane,but a blend with other nitroparaffins such as propyl nitrate,isopropyl nitrate,ethyl hexyl nitrate which are less sensitive to nitromethane .That term TRIEX, does it mean triple explosive composition which presumably be a blend of nitroparaffins plus sesnsitizer or just a plain trademark?I have some other thoughts,but please clarify the statement “insensitive”.Insensitive High explosives are a different category to the liquid binary explosives.


[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited July 15, 2001).]

[EventHorizon]

What I meant by insensitive to tests was, friction test, impact test, bullet test, etc. All did not produce a detonation but a #6 cap will. About the name "Triex" suggesting 3 parts...I don't know. The description only mentions two parts, neither being detonatable when not mixed. I'll type up the specs when I get home.

[deezs]

Have you seen Die hard 3 with Bruce Willis?
I'm not sure it was the third, but it was played in New York. In that film, there was an explosive like this.
Where have you read about this stuff? Please drop a link.

[Ezikiel]

Dude !!! That stuff was as sensitive as nitroglycerin. I have always been looking for something like that but the closest so far has been CH3NO2 + C2H4(NH2)2
(94%) + (6%)
The other ones being NH4NO3 and CH3NO2
KClO3 and Brake fluid
Ca(OCl)2 and Naptha
What else ????????

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"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"

[EventHorizon]

Yes, the stuff in Die Hard was very sensitive so they portrayed. Triex's specs say it is not set off by a .30cal bullet when mixed, but easily exploded by a #6 cap.

[Microtek]

nitroglycerine is orders of magnitude less sensitive than the binary portrayed in that movie. An explosive with that degree of sensitivity would be impossible to handle even though it would only be dangerous when mixed.
In the movie the nerdy looking policeman drops it from maybe 1.5 meters with a paperclip to make it detonate. That would be about 1 gram * 1.5 m = 0.0015 Kgm.
NG needs a solid whack with a hammer ( I think I read somewhere that the impact sensitivity was 0.04 Kgm but I think that was in order to get at least one detonation in ten tries ).

[cutefix]

Hollywood had skills in exaggerating things,which often looks unrealistic,only ignorant people are impressed by that and I think that’s what that business have in mind.Siphon a lot of money from gullible people through special effects.

[the freshmaker]

I found this site: http://www.fixor.com/
It is a binary explosive, consisting of a powder and a liquid, but the liquid is not nitromethane. Does anyone know what this could be? (the liquid is flammable...)

[CodeMason]

freshmaker: What's the bet that the "powder" is ammonium nitrate? And taking a stab here, the liquid is most likely a carbonaceous fuel, most likely fuel oil, that has been dyed red.

[cutefix]

It can be set by an ordinary blasting cap,its not ANFO,besides the listed VOD in the brochure is 4300 m/s more than ANFO could give.I was thinking it might be a 2-ethyl hexyl nitrate and ammonium perchlorate,it can give that detonation rate.The fuel is flammable and can be dyed;the solid can be AP(can be also dyed) because it is more stable than ammonium nitrate (not hygroscopic)and can properly sensitize also that particular fuel which AN is not capable off(it would need a booster).Another thing is because AP is not absoptive as AN it recommend proper shaking for blending.It indicates also that it settles if not shot after 2 hours, because of the same property it need to be re-agitated to disperse the fuel in the oxidizer.Their description of the product is deceptive,which were used before in other binary explosives manufacturer(including astrolite and kinepak).Although my description is not perfect it looks nearer to their item.

[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited July 19, 2001).]

[PHILOU Zrealone]

They are plenty of binary explosives worth trying:
*C(NO2)4 + nitrobenzene is much over TNB in VOD nitrobenzene is an insensitive fuel, C(NO2)4 is less sensitive than NM.
*NH4ClO4/TATNB is near 9.8km/s VOD
*NItrobenzene/HNO3 conc about the power of TNB
*...
*My guess is that
Tetranitromethane/tetracyanomethane can be also the hell of a blasting binary!


------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[wantsomfet]

The liquid in FIXOR is UN 2842 = nitroethane.

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kangaroooo.cjb.net (http://kangaroooo.cjb.net)

[cutefix]

Tetranitromethane binaries are indeed very powerful specially the one using toluene,but the extreme toxicity of this TNM and the bad record it made through laboratory accidents(made me think)I would rather play with hydrazine binaries,because I’m more familiar with it .
Sprengel type explosives are nice also,somehow those old timers or workers who have tried it in commercial blasting complained about its corrosive effect,and sometimes, the disagreeable fumes it emit.They say they would rather bear with nitroglycerin dynamite.Indeed It is easy to make an improvised explosives from this mixtures,and are powerful.
Wantsomfet,do you have an idea also about the solid component of fixor?Nitroethane is less oxygen balanced than NM,and I anticipate a better oxidizer than AN.

[wantsomfet]

I have no idea. The NATO STOCK NUMBER of the powder is NSN 1375-21-920-4638, since it has no UN number i suppose it's a mix of different nitrates (or perhaps perchlorates...?)

------------------
for best catfood visit:
kangaroooo.cjb.net (http://kangaroooo.cjb.net)

[EventHorizon]

Here is somemore on Triex.

Component A is in all likely nitromethane, its flash point is 112°, 10# per gallon, critical point is 951psi @ 600°F, 753-842° during basic mfg. I don't have the specs handy at the moment tho.

Component B

flash point 168°F
mildly corrosive
8# per gallon

Characteristics of Triex
94%-A, 6%-B
sp. gr. 1.12g/ml
v.det= 20.910 ft/s
viscosity-.630 cp at 25°C
freezing- comp. A)-29°C b)-46°C mixed)-27°C
Impact sens. no detoantion from 2kg@100cm
friction sens. no detoantion (4500rpm w/ 1500gm load @ 120s)
critical dia. in thin wall glass tube, .16"

Hope this is some usefull info.

[cutefix]

Thanks pal,that really cleared things up.Indeed it was just another proprietary brands of those nitroparrafin/amine binaries,that are stable,safe and have reasonable power,suitable for many purposes.

[EventHorizon]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ezikiel:
Dude !!! That stuff was as sensitive as nitroglycerin. I have always been looking for something like that but the closest so far has been CH3NO2 + C2H4(NH2)2 Can someone enlighten me on this compound. Entering C2H8N4 in merck gives 3 possibles none of which have the same line formula. I'm guessing diethylamine(IIRC)
(94%) + (6%)
The other ones being NH4NO3 and CH3NO2
KClO3 and Brake fluid
Ca(OCl)2 and Naptha
What else ????????

</font>



[This message has been edited by EventHorizon (edited August 07, 2001).]

[cutefix]

He is combining ANNM and nitromethane/diethylamine;is he making “quaternary explosive mixture”.Please, fellows don’t ever trust Hollywood stuff,it can be dangerous to your health…...I had no knowledge about the sensitivity of that cinematic multicomponent explosives,maybe the Film Director knows…..

[simply RED]

What is TATNB?

[cutefix]

TATNB might be another name to TATB for triaminotrinitrobenzene.This particular explosive is classified as IHE or Insensitive High Explosive it is the high explosive in the conventional explosive trigger used to set off the nuclear warhead of the MX Pacemaker ICBM.I think many ofthe current issue of nuclear missiles contain this explosive coded as PBX 9502.This TATB is so insensitive that a high explosive projectile fired at it was not able to set it off the missile warhead containing it.This explosive was developed in order to minimize premature detonation of the nuclear armaments through accidents or by intentional targeting of the missiles by the enemies.It is not a very powerful explosive;its VOD is only 7760 meters per second,therefore in previous warheads containing RDX and HMX based PBX,when they have to replace it with TATB they have to increase the explosive quantity in order to obtain similar power as those of the nitramine explosives.

[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited August 09, 2001).]

[simply RED]

Thanks!

[PHILOU Zrealone]

Or mix it (TATNB) with NH4NO3/NH4ClO4/NH2-NH3NO3/NH2-NH3ClO4 all are over 9km/s VOD!

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"

[cutefix]

Yeah, it can be very powerful but those mixtures surely are sensitive and would not be suitable for insensitive explosive category(IHE). I was just wondering why there are plenty of powerful new explosives that are almost insensitive as the TATB,yet weapon developers are still hesitant to use it.Or maybe its plainly classified information.......

[Hex]

There's a few reasons why TATB is preferred. It's extremely chemically stable (although it turns green under UV light). Some of the impact insensitive alternatives are chemically unstable. Also, I think it apparently shows the lowest impact sensitivity of any known compound in bomb-size tests. HNS is still a yield inefficient process, but is now being considered for detcord in vulnerable places like aircraft canopies etc.

[cutefix]

I think you’ve got a point there.Military evaluation of new explosives is so extremely rigorous.Robustness of the material is given much emphasis against its explosive capability.This is more stringent in choosing potential replacements for critical parts in advanced weapons, so that will not imperil national security and military capability.
By the way, from your experience , can HNS supplant TATB?It has higher temperature stability than the latter.As military R&D miniaturizes their weapons they must have to look for alternatives to replace the” ballast “characteristics of these old insensitive explosives….

[EventHorizon]

After reading the post of 2 component explosives, I'm pretty sure that Triex was another companies name for Aerex. Nitromethane/aniline in 94%/6%. Specific gravity is close too, listed as 8#/gal in the manual I read and 8.529#/gal calculated from the density given by Merck. Flash point checks outs too, manual gives 168F and Merck 169F.

Sounds like a fun liquid. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

IIRC aniline is not a controlled, watched, etc. substance.

Please correct me if I'm wrong tho.

[Mr Cool]

I don't think it's controlled, but that doesn't make it easy to find...
Although any chem. supplier will have it, your local supermarket will not so the younger members might have problems getting it.

[EventHorizon]

Fortunately/unfortunately (however you look at it) I'm not young, well at least not THAT young. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[jagster]

Don't mean to bring this topic back up but fixor patent can be googled and its simply nitromethane, and the powder is glass microbeads and CABOSIL, or fumed silica.

Sounds easy to make has anyone tried? :)

I don't really understand how microbeads can sensitize it or what the fumed silica does, besides thicken it up a bit (mayb suspend the microbeads better?)

[TORCHed]

I'm seeing a great deal of interesting binary ideas in this thread, but I'm still confused about what binary you see in this video below on youtube. It is a mixture of mostly white powder and a couple drops of a red liquid. When mixed up, you get a slurry, which then hardens.

Now the video has very little information about this binary other than the fact it can be detonated with a regular black powder fuse... so no caps or booster needed, and has a VoD of over 6,000 m/s.

The amount used, the fact black powder wick can be used to det, and the destruction it did to a watermelon was quite impressive. Also, by the looks of it, it's professionally made rather than the back yard chemist videos all over the net.

So, what is this binary?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iMu1GMpEEa4

[mil&co]

In one word, a hoax.
This has been discussed before, the video is a trick, the watermelon is not destroyed, but merely knocked off its pole and the explosion doesn't come from the pen.

[ChippedHammer]

The user who posted that has been proven to be full of shit, most of his videos are fakes.

[TORCHed]

Thanks guys! That I did not know. It did seem a little off to me that such a small amount with slightly higher VoD than something like TATP would even be enough to blow a watermelon off the stand. I might be able to believe the pen being filled with TATP or HMTD would do the trick.

[Yafmot]

I've worked with a lot of Di/Tri amines for curing Epoxy resin systems in composites. I also know a few drag racers around town, so NM won't be a problem. Do you suppose 94/6 Nitromethane/Diethylenetriamine would do me any good? I just want to blow stumps, not cut steel. Demo is what PETN is for.

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UTFSE for Picatinny Liquid Explosive (PLX). - Enkidu