X:Y:Z KMnO4:Zn:S

[ultma]

Ok for my next experiment I am thinking 3:2:1 KMnO4:Zn:S by weight ignited with a drop glycerol

Now I have heard sulphur can make KMnO4 quite dangerous, and that KMnO4 flash is dangerous in itself?

The Sulfur would be from flowers of sulphur, the KMnO4 from condy's crystals and the Zinc Analytical reagent grade powder from BDH

Now I also have a 106um s/steel mesh brass sieve.

I was planning on mixing the zinc and sulphur via diaper method and then sieving then re-diapering. I would then crush the condys crystals with a mortar and pestle and mix with the zinc/sulphur

Now should I sieve the KMnO4 after crushing if so how should I clean it after the zinc sulphur? Or should I just use a different sieve?

Now when mixing the zinc/sulphur with the KMnO4 should I use the diaper method with small amounts at a time or use a container on a long pole? If I use a container on a pole what would be the ideal vessel, if some sort of plastic is ideal what type?

I was planning on using 15g:10g:5g(maybe 7.5g:5g:2.5g at first) and making a small hollow on the mixture and adding a drop of analytical grade glycerol with a Pasteur pipette and moving very far away very fast!

Any safety tips and advice would be most welcome. :)

Thanks.

[knowledgehungry]

My advice would be to strongly rethink the amount of flash you are making. As a rule when trying something out for the first time(especially when no one else has, but even when it is a tried and true method) go small.

I would recommend you first find the correct stoichiometric ratios of reactants(you may already have I am not going to double check your math) and then make no more than a 3 gram total weight batch, try it out uncontained and then gradually experiment with containment, different amounts and different ratios.

Wear safety glasses and leather gloves.

[ultma]

I not planning on confining it yet but yes small would be better as for the ratio I am not totally sure its just a Al flash mix with Zn replacing Al however Zn and sulphur react 1:1 to make Zinc sulphide so 1g Zn to 0.5g of S.

Should I allow more zinc for a reaction with KMnO4 or just leave it be, there are quite a few possible products so it’s anyone’s guess, if you think mine looks no good.

I will tape the reaction and post it if it’s worthy

Well this troubles me since S reacts with Zn and KMnO4 reacts with Zn it’s a tough one after having a think!

If S only makes it more sensitive and only acts as a catalyst then I can assume it will react with Zn to make ZnS as well? However some is probably turned into SO2 by the air and the KMnO4?

Now making the assumption that the S will only react with the Zn and the KMnO4 with the Zn so for KMnO4 + Zn it would be 1:1 (if it reacts like Mg and makes ZnO) and for Zn + S it would be 2:1 so it should be heavy on the zinc and light on the sulphur if I don’t want the KMnO4 to be too unstable

So if I keep three parts KMnO4 and one part S I would want 5 parts Zn i.e. 3:5:1 KMnO4:Zn:S.
Or would I be better of with 1:3:1 or just stick with the original idea of 3:2:1.
I will let you guys choose if you want or heck ill try all three at under 1g each for a start (using 1 drop of glycerol to ignite might interfere with a 1g reaction?)
Or maybe even 3:3:2 if I take into account a 2:1 KMnO4:S reaction.

Now thats not going to happen I doubt I can mix it so all those reactions take place equally, unless I make all three powders and stack them one on top of the other, sound like a good idea?

which one is the most reactive? Which one liberates the most energy?
KMnO4 + S
KMnO4 + Zn
Zn + S

looks like I have some experimenting to do but not so much Zinc :(

I might need to order some more I heard a clumsy technicain spilt the last 500g :cool:

Your ideas and opinions are most welcome.

[ultma]

Ok I weighed out the amounts for 4 types of KMnO4:Zn:S flash for a total of 1g each, on the analytical balance at work; 3:2:1 1:3:1 3:5:1 3:3:2

Now I am not sure if glycerol will ignite these small quantities, I tried KMnO4 and glycerol and it didn’t do too much for about a minute so I gave it some heat and it worked.

Now my lab is AC at 20C so I thought it should have happened with in a minute. It’s summer in my country but it doesn’t get too hot here

So should I try glycerol to ignite or use something else would you guys suggest since I don’t have any fuse!

++++++++++

Take a length of wire wrapped around a long pole, and heat the wire red hot with a torch and poke it into the flash. NBK

[ultma]

I Enjoyed that :D , 3:5:1 KMnO4:Zn:S 10g with small pile of KMnO4 in the middle of the powder used as a fuse with glycerol Unconfined. Seemed like the best it could have been finer KMnO4 and the S isn’t top notch.

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2en6fe1

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2307/351kmno4zns7lt.jpg

[ultma]

3.3.2 lack luster 2 second reaction
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=351h0cy

1:3:1 better 1 second reaction
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2w6e1j5

3:2:1 dismal 2 second reaction some Sulphur left over
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2ez5ndj


I dont have much experiance so maybe 1:3:1 was better but 3:5:1 did look alot better made a whoosh sound and a nice smoke/reaction cloud

edit to answer question:
you can also see in 1:3:1 ther was a strong Zn+S-->ZnS reaction
The way i use the glycerol was making a derpression in the mound and adding some fine KMnO4 powder, just a little and one drop of glycerol.

Yes they were all 10g, which way do you think i should tweek it
4:5:1 as it looked like some zinc was burning in the air.
3:6:1 or 3:5:2 or hey try them all ;)

also if some one else could repeat my experiments that would be great

[knowledgehungry]

Were they all 10 gram batches or was the 3:5:1 reaction the only one that was in such a large amount?

The 3:5:1 certainly looked the best, with a formula like this it is very hard to figure out the correct ratios by anything other than experimentation. As you pointed out the Zn will react with the sulfur to form ZnS, the Sulfur will be oxidized by the air and KMnO4 to for SO2, the glycerine will be oxidized by the KMnO4 as will the Zn. It is very difficult to predict which will happen in what amounts and first. I think continued testing is the best way to find the optimal proportions.

[ultma]

Were they all 10 gram batches or was the 3:5:1 reaction the only one that was in such a large amount?

The 3:5:1 certainly looked the best, with a formula like this it is very hard to figure out the correct ratios by anything other than experimentation. As you pointed out the Zn will react with the sulfur to form ZnS, the Sulfur will be oxidized by the air and KMnO4 to for SO2, the glycerine will be oxidized by the KMnO4 as will the Zn. It is very difficult to predict which will happen in what amounts and first. I think continued testing is the best way to find the optimal proportions.

I edited the post above to answer some your questions

also here is 3.4.1 3.5g slightly confined in a Al foil ball with a wee spout at the top I filled it with the mix then added a small amount KMnO4 to fill the neck.(I used salt to aproximate the volume needed then tipped it out and used a small funnel to fill it)

Not so scientific but in good fun anyway

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2uhwjma

[ultma]

I have a question anyone good with reaction products?

Anyway I tried 4:5:1 10g this time in a Al dish, instead of on tin foil.
But damn, it was alot better than 3:5:1

here 4:5:1 check out the glowing red reaction vessel you know its cooking something good in there.
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2iufija

Is there any orange to red metal salt/complex formed with Al & Zn or Mn? However this will only be formed if Zn and Al are in the mix, no foil no rust-like colour, no Zinc no rust-like colour!
3:2:1 KMnO4:Al:S 2g
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5334/2g321resize6zg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
3:5:1 KMnO4:Zn:s 20g
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3536/20g351resized5xa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
4:5:1 KMnO4:Zn:s 10g
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7366/10g451resize2vo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


And for good measure 3.5.1 20g in a foil dish.

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2e57clx

[nbk2000]

It's improving. :)

What's all the extraneous background noise? All the chit-chat and 'fuck!' is distracting. Oh, and camera shake. Set the camera on a solid surface or tripod and have everyone around STFU while filming.

[ultma]

It's improving. :)

What's all the extraneous background noise? All the chit-chat and 'fuck!' is distracting. Oh, and camera shake. Set the camera on a solid surface or tripod and have everyone around STFU while filming.

Yes it is :)
As for the camera it will improve in the future

Now Enthalpy of formation
using Mn3O4=-1386.3 kJ/mol, KMnO4=-813.2 kJ/mol, ZnS=-202.9 kJ/mol, ZnO=-348.0 kJ/mol, SO2=-296.1kJ/mol, K2O=-361.44 kJ/mol, ZnS=361.4kJ/mol

Does this data seem correct?

I get:
6KMnO4 + 13Zn --> 2Mn3O4 + 3K2O +13ZnO
-3502 kJ/mol
12KMnO4 + 13Zn --> 4Mn3O4 + 6K2O +13SO2
-991 kJ/mol
Zn + S --> ZnS
-361 kJ/mol

As for that reaction product I have a few ideas:
MnSO4 reddish
ZnAl2O4 or MnAl2O4 or ZnMn2O4 cant find a colour reference for these, or something along this path it must have something to do with Al and Zinc (as a catalyst or direct reactant) but its anyones guess.

3:6:1 10g
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=29c5cw4

[ultma]

Yes it is :)
MnSO4 reddish


I Meant MnS like Hauerite not MnSO4 :o

[ultma]

10g 6:8:1 with KMnO4/glycerol fuse. I removed the sound because my damn minions spoke just as it was going off, it made a nice whup sound though. The camera was on a fence post in full zoom


http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=48rmc9l


so next time I will try

KMnO4:Zn alone and 10:10:1, 20:20:1, 5:5:1, 8:10:1 and maybe 28:12:1

[ultma]

Well no sulphur no dice, 10g 6.9:3.1 KMnO4:Zn was well, dismal!

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2lcxrbp

On the other hand 5g of 6:8:1 Blew the lid off of a plastic centrifuge tube with a good lound bang, the video does not do justice, all over in two frames @30fps :D

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=2r6g0gz

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/589/confined2nm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Grizzly]

Ive been trying KMnO4/Zn in different ratios and kept getting a slow burn and as I kept adding a little oxidizer it was burning faster. My Question is will KMnO4/Zn make a report confined similar to at least a KNO3/Al/S report. Have you tried this or have any videos?

[ultma]

Ive been trying KMnO4/Zn in different ratios and kept getting a slow burn and as I kept adding a little oxidizer it was burning faster. My Question is will KMnO4/Zn make a report confined similar to at least a KNO3/Al/S report. Have you tried this or have any videos?

No sulphur No dice, It makes a good report there is plenty of smoke and hot gasses.

[Grizzly]

No sulphur No dice, It makes a good report there is plenty of smoke and hot gasses.

Do you have a video? I can show you a couple of unconfined vids of mine. I don't even know the ratios because I was experimenting around with adding a little more Zn etc.