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View Full Version : WTF is this shit? (Strange composition)


FullMetalJacket
January 9th, 2007, 12:51 PM
"i use the primer grains from .22 nail rams as sparkler powder when mixed with a oxidiser and Mg powder with some MnO2 and ground charcoal for safety."

"these are very cautiously thought out ;)


the i also you super finely ground black gunpowder as a propellant and remove the smokeless powder and charcoal from the equation.

it produces a three centimeter long flame that is hot enough to literally weld with and so intensely white you cant even think about looking at it.

essentially the Mg gets melted into a spray by the immense heat of the initial combustants igniting then the MnO2 hitting the carbon and turning it into CO2

2MnO2 + C ----> Mn2O + CO2

this way the black powder or the smokeless combined with charcoal produces extreme heats but at a constant none explosive rate.

the Mg melts or comes close but in ether case the ejected material forms a conical flame like a torch with ether a purple or orange out flame depending if i added a potassium or sodium based oxidiser and a intense inner flame that is dazzling with a shade 10 glass in front of your eyes.

i use them to illuminate areas while looking for things at night and such"

These are two statements made by a chick on another forum of mine, she has some scientific knowledge, but this just seems very flaky to me. I've asked her about ratios but she hasn't responded yet... My personal knowledge seems to suggest that the 'inner cone/outer cone' flame colour bullshit is just that, bullshit, because if the Mg was burning and not exploding, like powdered Mg and powerful oxidisers tend to to, the colour imparted by the Mg would overpower that of the cation.

Furthermore, she states that gunpowder(sic) needs to be very finely ground in order to propel things... Whilst by personal field of expertise is HE and BC, I'm still quite well versed in pure pyro, and I know for a fact that to use BP as a propellant it has to be granulated. Or am I wrong?

Any word from the judges? It just seems like a hodgepodge of rules of thumb and factoids that she may have picked up reading on sciency-type forums, coupled with a probably quite good knowledge of science in general, applied to try and create some strange super-fountain composition... And her cause is not helped from the way she heaps personal attacks on me.

But anyway, my point is: is there any truth to this? Have you ever encountered similar compositions?

megalomania
January 9th, 2007, 01:19 PM
It is just as hard to disprove theory as it is to prove it without experimental results to back you up. Technically the word "theory" is wrong without experimentation, the proper term would be hypothesis.

In your case she has presented her hypothesis as a tested fact, thus a theory indeed. However, she has not demonstrated any proof of concept or presented any other experimental evidence, including an experimental procedure that would allow others to follow in her footsteps and reproduce the results. Without reproducible results her claims should rightly be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism until proven otherwise.

We would need to know: 1) how many .22 primer grains she uses per batch, 2) how much powdered magnesium, and of what mesh, and 3) how much inert diluent in the form of manganese dioxide and charcoal does she add.

Finding the proper ratios could be accomplished, if a bit tedious. Considering she already knows, she could easily put an end to the dispute.

Oh, and her personal attacks against you only diminish her in your own eyes :D

FullMetalJacket
January 9th, 2007, 01:28 PM
One shouldn't have to resort to personal attacks on your opposition unless you doubt the strength of your real point.

Bert
January 9th, 2007, 03:34 PM
What a totally kewl mixture.

Without specific information on the ratios of the reactants and knowing what the hell "primer grains from .22 nail rams " might be, it's all just idle speculation. However:

Manganese dioxide in the presence of Magnesium is not an inert material, but an oxidizer for a Goldschmidt reaction.. The resulting Manganese vapor will air burn outside the device with an intensely bright light. This occurs with Aluminum/Manganese dioxide propellant rocket engines (AlMad) as well. The rest of the crap in her mix might just serve to lower the ignition point.

Black powder is granulated in different sizes/densities to modify its behavior as a propellant, it will serve as dust or a fine powder for some applications (small bore weapons), coarser grains for others (large bore, cannons & etc.) and for yet others, may be a single high density grain filling the whole device (rocket engines).

FullMetalJacket
January 9th, 2007, 03:57 PM
Oh good, so I do have some justification in my beliefs.

Match
January 9th, 2007, 05:08 PM
A girl that knows pyro... got pics. I want to pee in her cooter. :D

SafetyLast
January 9th, 2007, 06:47 PM
Huh? First off she didn't list any measured proportions which is kind of a "Kewl" thing to do. She also referred to "gunpowder" which can be misleading, most experienced pyros use the term black powder. Secondly she is a girl, and girls cannot do pyro. :D

Like Bert said the MnO2 serves as an oxidizer for the Mg in a goldschmidt type reaction similar to thermite.

Those .22 caliber ramset gun blanks typically contain about 2 grains (1/8th of a gram) of powder or less. The .27 caliber rimfire Hilti blanks that come on 10 round strips contain a bit more.

Cobalt.45
January 11th, 2007, 02:22 AM
A girl that knows pyro... got pics. I want to pee in her cooter.
You're a sick fuck, Match. I haven't laughed that hard in a while!
It makes me realize that there is some hope, after all.

sbovisjb1
January 21st, 2007, 01:45 PM
Personally I don't even want to know what a "cooter" means to him.