Bars Leaks Liquid Aluminum

[Shalashaska]

After hearing for the longest time that aluminum powder was available at many hardware stores, I went around looking for it specifically. After two hardware stores, I went to go browse the auto section at Wal-Mart, and to my surprise I found "Bars Leaks- Liquid Aluminum." This is a mixture of aluminum flakes and a peculiar, high viscosity, liquid. It is used for radiator leaks.
When I saw this, I immediately became very excited, thinking to myself, I'll just filter out the liquid and have approximately 150 mesh aluminum powder for only $2.53!
It's not that easy :(

I knew from the start it wouldn't be as easy as filtering out the liquid, due to the high viscosity, but I easily solved this in my head by diluting it. To sum up the subsequent two hours, I tried filtering the dilute mixture into a cup, and it still wouldn't go through, then tried tightly tying a filter around a bottle cap and squeezing it out, which worked better but at about 1 drop/10 seconds.

So, pretty much, here's my question... does anyone know of a more time efficient filter suitable for the mesh of the aluminum? Or should I just give up on this stuff and ask my friend to use his bench grinder on a chunk of aluminum?

[knowledgehungry]

There is a reason that the product you bought was advertised as a leak stopper. You can't use a filter to separate wet aluminum from something, the aluminum will "clog" up the filter. That's how it stops your radiator from leaking.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

The first thing that comes to mind is a makeshift centrifuge.... got a high speed electric motor, a counter weight, and something strong enough to secure the two satellites?

[Cindor]

Shalashaska: you can try to use that as a fuel, something like AN/LAl, KClO3/LAl, KNO3/LAl, or the oxidizer of your choice...

[festergrump]

At what ratio did you dilute it? That stuff comes really thick. Consider that it is made to work well in an environment normally capable of holding several gallons (usually) of coolant with the same viscosity of water, maybe you didn't dilute it enough to filter through.

Also, what are you using as a filter right now? A coffee filter? Maybe a smooth fabric filter would work better...

I like the centrifuge idea, though. Worthy of making one if it works for larger scale acquisition.

[Jacks Complete]

Since it is aluminium flakes, rather than dust/powder, simply use a tea strainer or sieve. The flakes won't go through the sieve, but the thick liquid will, and you will be able to add water/alcohol/oil/solvents without issue. Your drain rate will be a lot faster, too, as the holes are hundreds of times bigger.

[Shalashaska]

JacksComplete: Actually, the aluminum flakes looks to be a rather high mesh, and definitely too big for about the size of a window screen if that's about the size you're talking about. Otherwise, I'll check out the kitchenware section at Wal-Mart tomorrow, maybe.

The centrifuge idea sounds fantastic... but do you think an electric motor from a house fan would work? If it goes fast enough for the centrifuge, I could simply nail it down, tie on a short plank, and duct tape a couple bottles to the ends of the plank.


festergrump : The dilution ratio was approximately 1.5-2:1, water to aluminum. Should there be more water?
And BTW, yes, I was using a coffee filter; do you think a t-shirt would work? I read a post by nbk about a week ago about collecting rust from a chemical reaction, and he simply poured the yield through a t-shirt.

knowledgehungry: Thanks for the info, as I actually had no idea how a thick liquid mixed with aluminum could clog up leaks...

Cindor: I really don't think this mixture would even deflagrate when mixed with any oxidizer, unless the liquid had some properties I'm not aware of.



For those without experience with this crap, the liquid actually turns into a strange fabric, which reminded me of the collectings in the filter of a dryer; I discovered this when I tried boiling instead of filtering. Big potful of the crap :eek:

[nbk2000]

January 1998 Amateur Scientist column in Scientific American. The design for a microcentrifuge uses a commonly available Osterizer blender and a PVC pipe cap for the rotor.

This picture should be enough to get you going:

http://www.scifair.org/+images/KitchenCentrifuge.gif

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

The centrifuge idea sounds fantastic... but do you think an electric motor from a house fan would work? If it goes fast enough for the centrifuge, I could simply nail it down, tie on a short plank, and duct tape a couple bottles to the ends of the plank.Assuming you balanced it correctly that would work, but you'd need more than duck tape. Your centrifuge must be balanced and you must use strong materials, the inertial forces generated by a centrifuge are pretty massive, especially at higher RPMs. NBK's gif looks better for a small implimentation, but I don't see a blender scaling well to larger operations.


edit: I just had a comical idea.... do you own a ceiling fan?

[Shalashaska]

Yeah, I do have ceiling fan, but questions may arise pertaining to its disappearance:)

[Sausagemit]

edit: I just had a comical idea.... do you own a ceiling fan?

That's the first thing I thought of but most common new ceiling fans have an odd number of blades and the most common number is 5 :(

So unless you have an old 4 blade one or one of them fancy 3 blade ones, looks like the most common way to do it with a ceiling fan would be to strap 5 of whatever your trying to seperate to the fan.

Have you tried solevents on it and then tried pushing it through a filter? Mabye a little bit of acetone or some laquer thinner...

And trying to get some mid grade at best powdered aluminium out of coagulating fluid is beyond retarded but still may come in handy one day, so keep us updated. :D

[Jacks Complete]

What is the liquid mix? Is it hydrocarbon based? Do you know anything at all about it?

[Shalashaska]

And trying to get some mid grade at best powdered aluminium out of coagulating fluid is beyond retarded but still may come in handy one day, so keep us updated. :D

I have decided, after finding this http://www.barsproducts.com/MSDS.cfm, which has a list of Bar's Leaks products, including good ol' fashioned aluminum powder, that you are absolutely correct. Even after heavy dilution, the liquid is impossible to get rid of every speck...

I've decided to go with a previously mentioned method, being a bench grinder and hunks of aluminum.

[FUTI]

I looked MSDS you posted and it looks like water based product emulgated with some acrylic polymer I guess. Shame we can't use acid to precipitate that polymer since Al will also react, but if you find some polycationic polymer or cationic detergent you can give it a try...those things aren't compatible and precipitate each other so you can filter that from water.

You figure out how to separate the organic material from Al. Heating and burning is just to much dangerous for me...

OT that page also mentioned powder Al stop leak....so why didn't you buy that one man?

[Jacks Complete]

If it is an acrylic/aluminium mix with water, could you not dry it and then burn it anyway? Or mix in more fuel and then dry it?

[SafetyLast]

I bought some "Aluma-Seal" stop leak the other day, thinking that it was solely aluminum powder as Ragnar Benson says in Homemade C4.

It comes in 20 gram tubes which contain what looks like sawdust.
The msds lists the ingredients as ALUMINUM; (PIGMENTS) (SARA 313), CELLULOSE (PAPER FIBER); (VEHICLE), and STEARINE; (CATALYST).

Is there any way to seperate the aluminum powder (what little there is) from the rest of the powdered material or should I just forget about it?
A better source for aluminum powder would be West System 420 http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:-TI_51opvtsJ:www.westsystem.com/webpages/userinfo/safety/MSDS420.pdf+west+system+420&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
It's about $18 a pound and fairly high mesh.

[megalomania]

Why not try decantation? If you have a tall, but narrow, glass or plastic tube, let the aluminum settle, and then decant of the supernatent liquid with a pipet. You won't get it all, but that will get most of it. A bit of cotton in the pipet tip can filter out the aluminum. I would say a solvent wash followed by conventional filtration would get rid of the rest, or follow up with furthur decantation after washing/diluting.