Wierd! Solid crystaline AP mass

[Teck]

About 2 months ago I made a 150 gram batch of AP. I used a little bit and decided to save the rest so I put it an a small glass jar and pour acetone to wet it and if I need more AP that way I could take it out and it would dry waster than alcohol or water. Then couple of weeks later I oppened the jar and discovered the AP was one solid crystaline mass. I poked it slightly and it was solid so I decided not to mess with it. I took it outside and set it in my oven where I test my new compositions. And its been there for over 2 months and it hasnt sublimed or evaporated. Does anyone know what happened?

[kingspaz]

i think what happend is the acetone has dissolved the AP slightly and then evapourated leaving a solid lump behind. due to the small surface area of the giant lump sublimation has been slowed. in the powder form there is a larger surface area for sublimation to occur. well i think thats right....some one please correct me if i'm wrong.

[Anthony]

Is it a cake or one giant crystal?

[John456]

This happened to me once, and its not good. I put some AP in a plastic cup and dampened it with some acetone, and the next day it was one big crystal. I was young and stupid so i decided to take it outside and throw it down the road. It went pow when it hit the ground.

[DarkAngel]

If i whas you i would pour very
carefully acetone over the AP and wait
till it is disolved and do something with
it this big crystal/cake could crack and detonate.

Or if you have a very big garden you
could place a detonator next to the
container without touching it and detonate it that way
(With some kind of shield behind it to catch the shrapnel)

Deal with it now

And where is that oven of your's exactly?
Could you be in danger if your sitting in your house and it goes of or do you have a very large garden?

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited August 03, 2001).]

[Teck]

Its more of a cake. I was thinking of setting it off with a fuse inside the oven. The oven is like 400-500 feet away from the house.

[DarkAngel]

But with a blasting cap next to the jar you don't have to touch the cake,
and this reduces the change of setting it of.

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited August 04, 2001).]

[CragHack]

yeah the less you handle the mass the better. The shear size makes it even more unstable then normal. I would suggest using darkangles advice, or if you don't have the stuff to make a blasting cap (the AP mass was going to be used as such but... well it is now in a mass) i would shoot it with a high powered pellet rifle or .22 from about 100 yards away. Or for an easy way, you can dump gas on the whole thing and then light it remotley. Like with a piece of steel wool and a car battery.

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[Anthony]

I agree, best set it off in situ, moving it around would be risky. I'm sure you could gently place the end of a fuse onto the surface of the mass, but shooting it or putting a cap next to the container is a better idea.

Might have to get a bit closer than 100yds with an air rifle thoughhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[CragHack]

well, not a super compressed one coupled with a scope http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif (i just say this cause this is what i have)

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[Anthony]

Depending on the diameter of the container the AP is in, it's likely that the area you'd have to hit was only 2" high. 2" groups at 100yds with an air rifle is very impressive, especially with a springer, which it sounds like you have?

[CragHack]

nah 2" groups aren't hard, you just sight in the air rifle at 100 yards and you are all set. if youi can't hit inside 2 inches you suck. I don't know the exact model but springer does not sound familiar

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[Mick]

yeah, my AP does this all the time

when i make up AP, and i have some left over i just put it in a glass cup, and put it on my shelf for later use (maybe a couple, or a couple of weeks before i get around to using it)

and ususaly when i go to use it, it will have turned into a lump, then reason it does this is it draws moisture from the air.

to fix it, just poor some acetone down the side of the jar (don't poor it directly onto the lump) and let it desolve the AP
then you can either wait for the acetone to evapourate and re-use the AP, or you can just pour it down the dunny and flush it



[This message has been edited by Mick (edited August 05, 2001).]

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Now, pouring it down the drain would certainly be a waste of perfectly good AP !!
Ever since i've made AP I'm lookin' for things to blow up, and i'm starting to get pretty good at it ;-)

Now the only problem is my shortage of descent fuse (reliable), it seems like you just can't find this in Belgium :-(((

------------------
"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[Anthony]

Teck's got another option now which is good because he can still use it if he wants.

CragHack, what kind of power is this thing kicking out? If it's a high powered, high quality gun then 2" shouldn't be *that* difficult, but the power level I'm used to (12ft/lbs) even the slightest just of wind will push the point of impact several inches off target at 100yds.

[zaibatsu]

I think when he says super compressed he is referring to a PCP rather than a spring piston rifle, and because of this, the gun is much easier to shoot, although he doesn't mention whether this is from a rest, as you can't really fire a spring piston rifle for a rest such as bipod etc, because of the fact that it recoils. If its from a rest, with a PCP, at a high-ish power, say 30-50ftlb, then it isn't so bad to expect 2" groups once you get used to the rifle. Important point though, PCPs create recoil too!!

[-A-]

Teck said: "I poked it slightly and it was solid so I decided not to mess with it"
You poked it? I would have been scared just by looking at the AP mass!.
People here are right, don't touch or move it any more. Heating it with alcohol or some fuel looks like a good idea. But use some sort of delay to ignite the fuel. Or instead of a detonator as suggested, try black powder with a fuse close to the mass.

[CragHack]

well i don't know the formula to find out the number of foot pounds but i am shooting a 4.5g pellet at 1000 fps. What ever that comes out to be then thats what it is. And yes wind does play a MAJOR factor with such a light bullet, but...


------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[zaibatsu]

Jesus, 4.5g? Thats like 69.445613 grains! If we use 70 it'll be easier in the calc.

(1000^2x70)/450240 = 155.4726368159 ftlb which is more than some .22 rimfires, and only about 13x over the legal UK limit!!

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Hahahaaaa !!
seems like livin' in the UK sucks even more then in Belgium !!!(at least we've got descent beer, and we can drink it all day, every day!!)

PS: the food here is better too !!
so i suggest you jump over the creek and come live in Belgium (NOT) !!

------------------
"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[Anthony]

On the other hand it could be 4.5grains, which is about the weight of a steel BB.

[CragHack]

it could be, on the box it says 4.5g the g being either grain or gram i am not sure. Although the little bastards weigh more than a couple a paper clips grains sounds more like it. cause 155 ft/lbs seams a little much. Anyway, it is a .177cal pellet shot at 1000 fps. Not that hard to get a group of 2 inches, properly sighted of course, at 100 yards. But this of course represents a 200 dollar (american) investment. If you don't want an airgun like this, i suggest using gas with remote ignition.

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[zaibatsu]

Looks like it must be 4.5grains, but it can't be! I've never seen a pellet weigh that much, I'd have thought it'd be around the 7.9g mark. Interesting...

[This message has been edited by zaibatsu (edited August 06, 2001).]

[Anthony]

7.9grains is what the average lead pellet weighs, I saw steel BBs quoted as 4.9grains which seems about as the amount of material is less and it's less dense.

By springer I meant a spring powered rifle, if it is then I'm still impressed, since even at 1000fps (practically mach1) 4.5gr isn't much more than 12fpe.

[shooter3]

2 inch groups at a hundred yards! My mini-14 doesn't shoot that good!

[zaibatsu]

I wouldn't have thought a 4.5grain pellet would survive 1000fps, but then again they might not be lead...