WACO II Alert: Tax Evasion in NH [Archive] - The Explosives and Weapons Forum

nbk2000

January 19th, 2007, 02:11 AM

The founders of the US fought the British empire in a war over taxation. Is it so hard to believe that people are rightfully pissed at having their money taken from them?

And, really, where do all our taxes go? Besides paying a huge interest charge to the Federal Reserve Bank (a privately operated international banking operation), it goes to pay for our war machine, government bloat, welfare to muds, pork-barrel projects to government lackeys, etc.

All the shit that we think of now as government services used to be privately operated...police/fire/highways/medical/insurance/etc.

The government is like a junkie hooked on an ever increasing supply of dope. It'll fight tooth and nail to protect its supply against anyone who'd cut it off.

I think that the 'people' who are showing up at his house are likely undercover agents who'll wait until later to quickly gaffle him up and scoot away with him. They don't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco to stir up public sentiment against them.

knowledgehungry

January 19th, 2007, 02:44 AM

I don't doubt that the government may try that. The "people" who are there now I think are local buddies. He made a comment that they are there to kill the person who kills him I believe.

Chris The Great

January 19th, 2007, 03:28 AM

First they came for the terrorists, and I didn't act out
Because I was not a terrorist

Then they came for the tax evaders, and I didn't act out
Because I was not a tax evader

Then they came for the activists, and I didn't act out
Because I wasn't an activist and didn't really care about those stupid commies anyway

Then they came for roguesci.org, and I didn't act out
Because I had everyone's email anyway and it was risky to act out

Then they came for me
And I was totally fucked because I hadn't fucking clued in to act out yet and just sat on my ass the whole damn time!

sparkchaser

January 19th, 2007, 04:29 AM

The founders of the US fought the British empire in a war over taxation. Is it so hard to believe that people are rightfully pissed at having their money taken from them?

Our founding fathers fought against taxation without representation, not just taxation. Quite a bit of difference there.

He should just be thankfull that he doesn't live in a socialist state like Belgium. 38% income tax minimum for the average citizen. It really makes me happy to pay American taxes after seeing how these idiots live sometimes.

Nice poetic twist Chris.

knowledgehungry

January 19th, 2007, 10:56 AM

Our founding fathers fought against taxation without representation, not just taxation. Quite a bit of difference there.

Just how well are you represented? Do the Democrats and their welfare state represent you, or maybe the Republicans and their corporate interests?

Ekilo

January 19th, 2007, 11:22 AM

I don't feel like I am represented at all. Those voted into power serve their own interests. It will only get worse as the American Idle generation starts to move into positions of leadership.

As for this man, I agree with him. I would like to know how much the government has spent in response to him compared to how much he "owed".

Food for thought. Counties in my area are claiming that assessment values are not standard. They are going to reassess everyones property. I find the timing questionable. It is the peak of the housing market so land values are artificially inflated. Everyones property taxes will go up.

Is that taxation with representation? Yes.
Are property owners outraged? Yes.
Are the property owners going to do anything about it? Nope.
Why? Because the only damn thing that would get any attention is what this man is doing.

So much for a person defending his/her castle.

/Shutting up sir.

knowledgehungry

January 19th, 2007, 04:53 PM

I personally don't believe in not paying income tax, not because I think the way we are taxed is fair, but because I know that if I don't pay my taxes Joe Schmo who is working 70 hours a week to feed his kids will.

The same idea as pairing up prisoners and telling them if the other escapes the remaining one gets killed. A very effective tool.

I am grateful our country is less taxed than many,but I think we need guys like this to remind the government that the American people are NOT the French or Swedish or German and if pushed too far will resist. I am not for overthrow of our government in anyway shape or form, I just want it to be kept in check.

rsx914

January 19th, 2007, 08:25 PM

I'm going to quit my job tomorrow in protest. Then I'll steal cars for a living and sell the parts on ebay for money. Tax that! Anybody else want in?

nbk2000

January 19th, 2007, 09:30 PM

Income tax is a fraud!

Go to Google video and watch 'Freedom to Fascism'. It's all about the takeover of Americas money system and the theft of Americans earned income.

Hirudinea

January 19th, 2007, 10:20 PM

The founders of the US fought the British empire in a war over taxation.

Yes because the richest men in the Colonies were pissed off at having to send 1/10th of 1% of their obscene profits to the Home Country, so they formented a revolution so they could have their own goverment and make their own tax policies. :D

nbk2000

January 19th, 2007, 11:09 PM

And all to get their families taken hostage, homes burned, hanged as traitors, hiding as fugitives, dying as paupers having spent all their money on the war...all for the chance to increase the profit margin from their cotton-picking niggers labor. :rolleyes:

Any starving peasant will get uppity given the chance, but then that's the history of the third world nations.

America was created by men (some who were obscenely rich, most well-to-do) who could have just as easily sat on their asses in the shade of their plantation mansions and not risked anything, but instead risked everything...their lives and fortunes...on the premise of the right of the individual to decide his own life.

How many other countries have had revolutions started by their rich gentry, not starving peasants, for the betterment of ALL? None?

And the war wasn't solely about taxation. That was just the straw that broke the camels back.

sparkchaser

January 20th, 2007, 04:29 PM

But I thought that America was settled by folks that just wanted freedom from religious persecution!:rolleyes:

We do have representation, albeit in small quantities. We vote people in that we think will represent us best, unfortunately, your vote is one of many, and by necessity the electee must go by what the majority wants, or be voted out next term.

Do you get exactly what you want? No. Do you get most of what you want? Only if your guy gets voted in. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life.

If you want to get exactly what you want, get voted in. Otherwise, cast your vote and go with what happens knowing you tried your best to change things for the better. Failing those, quit bitching and try to make a change, whatever that may require in your eyes.

festergrump

January 20th, 2007, 07:45 PM

I just know I'm gonna go off in a tangient here and speak my mind, so I warn everyone in advance. At least I might feel a little bit relieved when I'm done. Here's hoping, anyway...

We vote people in that we think will represent us best, unfortunately, your vote is one of many, and by necessity the electee must go by what the majority wants, or be voted out next term.

Yes, but like you say, your vote is for someone who will supposedly vote how you wish them to. I think you have too much faith in the system. The gov. machine is corrupt beyond control. This electoral college thing is only as valid as a campaign promise, as that's all it is, and it's four years too late to do anything about it if you put your trust in the wrong liar. Your vote is totally filtered and diluted via the electoral college, and that's even if we are still this lucky these days, when even the vote you'll soon cast now is even on that of a machine and has no paper trail, anymore... yours OR the electoral promisee's, assuredly...

So called 'voting' is really only a joke, and probably a pretty funny one to politicians. Citizens are viewed as a joke. Human rights and race representation in congress and the house of representatives is a joke, as is the US Constitution viewed as a joke. (how about the term "public servant"? It is a joke to be passed around amongst 'elected officials' like "innocent until proven guilty" is). One big fucking laugh as the puppet masters choose their sock-puppets and sit them down for a little "Here's how it's going to be" talk. They'd all sooner wipe their asses with the US Constitution as read and follow it. They've been writing laws to circumvent it for many decades, now. (laws are only to be passed to stop people from infringing on the rights of other people and that's it. No more).

Consider that the population of the USA is somewhere around 02% jewish but the US congress is near 40% or better jewish... Equal race representation? Mmm... no. Not by my calculations.

The government is a junkie for money (thanks for that nice quotable summary of the gov, NBK) and money equals power. He who holds the money has the power, and we all know who is king of making money from nothing, don't we? (think insurance companies... a jewish idea for making money for no work or physical product delivered, but in more and more forms: the "law" dictates you must have it or be penalized. Look it up and pay attention to names and racial backgrounds of the CEOs of such insurance companies). Who made these laws? Who voted for them and made them law? Get my point yet? Insurance is an enforcable 'tax' written into law to run concurrently beside regular taxes (which were never actually written into law. No shit, huh, Mr. Brown). A pimple on a zit, so to speak.

Taxation itself was invented by the greed, but jews studied it (worshiped it) until it became such a science in and of itself to them that now it's your legal responsability (says the government that will kill you if you dare to disagree) to keep them well bloated with financial dividends as a reward for their "suffering" ('soft-manipulation' of weak minds through repeated propaganda reinforcement). Greed is not a jewish only behavior. It's dormant in every race, but it IS being cultivated in every race by the jews, ultimately.

Bottom line is to cast your vote just for shits and giggles sake, then go home with your "I voted, did you?" sticker on your lapel, clean all your guns and count the rounds in your ammo supply, and order more to build up to 1000 per rifle in each caliber you have chambers for, then finally plan on holing up in your abode like Ed Brown when they come for you... give them all your guns lead first.

OR

Put all of your guns (unloaded) and ammo out the door gift-wrapped in UN blue, bend over, and view your asshole as the last time you'll ever see it as an 'exit only' orifice of your body, and wait for them to come and call you by number for catagorization and chip processing...

Mr. Brown is right for doing what he's doing, IMHO. Unfortunately, he's fighting the fight hardly anyone has the balls big enough to fight, anymore. He sees the pot he's in as the water gets hotter. Smart froggy, all alone.

It's never gonna get better or go away. We have to make it opaque and tangible to the lesser-thinking minds of this world, call it for what it is, and make it our mission to eliminate it from our society at large. When we ultimately win, we need to not stop there. We need to take the fight to the UK, to Australia, to... [/rant]

These are only my views and opinions, so call me crazy or flame away if that's your desire. It's the Water Cooler, afterall, and I won't even dispute your own opinions. I just want everyone to wake the fuck up and smell some coffee before the shithouse is in flames while your pants are around your ankles. It's SO much more than just taxes. It's the government's addiction to control of a country's entire citizenship this fight is all about.

Hirudinea

January 21st, 2007, 10:12 PM

And all to get their families taken hostage, homes burned, hanged as traitors, hiding as fugitives, dying as paupers having spent all their money on the war...

Actually that was the Loyalists, the rebels did alright for themselves.

America was created by men (some who were obscenely rich, most well-to-do) who could have just as easily sat on their asses in the shade of their plantation mansions and not risked anything, but instead risked everything...their lives and fortunes...on the premise of the right of the individual to decide his own life.

More like the premise that rich men shouldn't have to pay taxes. ;)

How many other countries have had revolutions started by their rich gentry, not starving peasants, for the betterment of ALL? None?

No revolution has been started by the gentry for the betterment of all, including the American revolution.

nbk2000

January 22nd, 2007, 02:50 AM

Obviously, we have a heretic in our midsts.

Hirudinea

January 22nd, 2007, 07:59 PM

Obviously, we have a heretic in our midsts.

Nah, I just think if George Washington had been apointed a Colonel in the British Army and Edmund Burke had been Prime Minister of England the world would be a better place today. :D

knowledgehungry

January 23rd, 2007, 12:19 AM

Maybe we have a bitter Anglophile in our midst ;).

Hirudinea

January 23rd, 2007, 08:11 PM

Maybe we have a bitter Anglophile in our midst.

No, a Loyalist, my rebel friend, a Loyalist. :D

LibertyOrDeath

January 25th, 2007, 07:09 AM

The founders of the US fought the British empire in a war over taxation. Is it so hard to believe that people are rightfully pissed at having their money taken from them?

And, really, where do all our taxes go? Besides paying a huge interest charge to the Federal Reserve Bank (a privately operated international banking operation), it goes to pay for our war machine, government bloat, welfare to muds, pork-barrel projects to government lackeys, etc.Amen to that.

Even worse, there's the fact that our tax dollars are being used to find new and better ways of enslaving us here in the "Homeland," such as funding research into better body armor that only the State's enforcer pigs will be able to buy legally. But I guess that fits under the rubric of "war machine."

While I have less of a problem with the income tax than with a lot of other government "laws" (especially gun laws), I have nothing but respect for that guy. If this ends in a shootout, I hope that he's armed with a gas mask, a good rifle, and steel core ammo, and that he scores a few points for freedom on his way out.

DorikinGTSt

January 25th, 2007, 09:08 AM

For your viewing pleasure:

Aaron Russo's America: Freedom to Fascism
http://video.google.com/url?vidurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com%2Fvideopl ay%3Fdocid%3D-4312730277175242198%26q%3Damerica%2Bfreedom&docid=-4312730277175242198&ev=v&esrc=sr1&usg=AL29H21q0N81e-HVwJglznbsJXtiH5NdYQ

There is NO LAW requiring you to pay an income tax.

Thank Aaron for bring Led Zeppelin to the U.S. while you're at it!

Hirudinea

January 25th, 2007, 10:18 PM

There is NO LAW requiring you to pay an income tax.

There is also no law requiring you to give several armed in a dark alley all your money but you do, the goverment has several million armed under its command, and no judge would ever hold the goverment to fault for anything they do, so what does the law have to do with this situation?

nbk2000

January 25th, 2007, 10:26 PM

Ah, the Highway Robbery analogy!

Because the robbers have institutionalized the concept of peacefully giving up a percentage of your money to them for so long into the minds of their victims, that the victims have come to accept the idea as 'The way things have always been!'. And as long as they send in their money, and fill out the forms, they never see the thug with a gun.

So now, if anyone resists, the robbers have to be very wary about showing the brutal nature of the truth, 'lest they scare the sheeple into realizing just how wrong the whole thing truely is.

shooter3

January 25th, 2007, 11:57 PM

The income tax is legal, because it is volentary. Unfortunatly, the powers that be will not tell you that. (Go to a law library and you will find 2 volumns for 1913. One is "Public Laws of the U.S, the other is "Private Laws of the U.S.. You will find the 16th amendment in "private......). The big problem with not volenteering is how the government will act, just ask the Branch Davidians, Gordon Kall, or other tax protestors. Oh wait,.. you can't, they're dead.

It isn't worth it. Brown should give them what they want and save his ammo for when he needs it. Like when the tyrants atempt to confiscate guns.

Like John Ross said; "Let the idiots get away with all you can stand, but don't let them confiscate your only means of stopping their idiocy, when it goes to far.

I would suggest that everyone on the forum read "The Law" by Frederick Bastiate. This was the best thing to ever come out of France. More than likely a lot of you have already, but I read it again after about 15 years and it's more apropriate now than ever.

If Brown shoots, he's a dead man and no help to the cause. I'm not sure if this is the same guy, but I think I met him at a lecture once. He was telling a group of "Patriots" about how he was caught smuggling dynamite into the UN. and was caught when the metal detector found his caps. It's a good thing he was caught, he had a broom closet full of dynamite. New York put him in jail for 3 years. Innocent people would have been killed.

Kill evil people, not stupid people. (but stupid people can be evil also, just look at the muslim fundamentalists, walking, talking, turnips!)

nbk2000

January 26th, 2007, 01:39 AM

Hirudinea

January 26th, 2007, 10:31 PM

So now, if anyone resists, the robbers have to be very wary about showing the brutal nature of the truth, 'lest they scare the sheeple into realizing just how wrong the whole thing truely is.

Thats always that hardest trick being scary enough to keep the rebels in line but not so scary as to wake up the sleeping mob. Thats what the CIA is for. :D

The income tax is legal, because it is volentary. Unfortunatly, the powers that be will not tell you that. (Go to a law library and you will find 2 volumns for 1913.

This is a problem of "De Juri" vs. "De Facto", the 16th Admentment is a law and hence "De Juri" a loaded M-16 in your face is "De Facto".

defiant

January 26th, 2007, 11:59 PM

Shooter3 wrote:

I'm not sure if this is the same guy, but I think I met him at a lecture once. He was telling a group of "Patriots" about how he was caught smuggling dynamite into the UN. and was caught when the metal detector found his caps.

Wrong guy, as this Ed Brown had 30 odd guns confiscated by law enforcement but was not arrested for illegal posession. His firearms were confiscated upon order of the judge - as a condition of his release for tax evasion (?????).

Brown is not a newcomer - he's been involved with militia groups for years. He was the former president of the Constitutional Rangers (do a google search). Thus despite the gun confiscation he is currently armed, as is proper. In his own words - he doesn't expect to survive a confrontation with federal forces - but claims that if that federal forces take him that it will start a war/reprisals the like of which the government has never seen.

ô¿ô
\___/

Too bad the US isn't ready for:

Ed Brown
401 Center of Town Rd, Plainfield NH 03781
603-675-2909
Edward.L.Brown@valley.net

nbk2000

January 27th, 2007, 02:23 AM

Google Earth shows a powerline right-of-way that extends for many miles to the north and south, that cuts right through his property (or close enough to not matter).

If he had previously scouted it out and set it up as an escape route, he could cut off from it into the dense forest at any point he wanted, making it nearly impossible to follow.

defiant

January 27th, 2007, 10:52 PM

I don't have google earth installed right now but I'll check that out.

In any case he reportedly did his own constuction (at least on his wife's office), rigged his house with solar power (and generators?), had months of provisions stored, etc. A survivalist.

It would not be suprising if he were to have an escape route (perhaps an underground tunnel).

Most people can't afford a tunnel because they pay taxes. One more reason not to. :rolleyes:

nbk2000

January 28th, 2007, 03:12 AM

No need to install it.

Go to:

'http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl'

copy/paste in the address you provided, and see for yourself. :)

Alexires

January 28th, 2007, 07:47 AM

NBK, whats to say that he hasn't done just that? Google maps aren't up to date. Here in Aus they are 5 years old in some places.

And on the dicussion of what is "law" I recieved a letter from the AEC the other day (Australian Electoral Commission). They want me to register to vote. Ofcourse, that means telling them a whole bunch of shit about me that I don't want to and always making sure it is update.

Now, they say "If you don't reply within 14 days, we will fine you". I also got the same letter last year (which I ignored) with the same message. No fine. I have heard it rumoured that if you don't ever register, they can't fine you.

Anyone in Aus know anything about this?

I find it funny that Democracy is compulsory. Personally, I think it is a tool used by the government to drown out the voice's of those people that actually give a fuck.

Imagine if you didn't have to vote? The only people that would vote would be those people that actually gave a fuck (eg. us) and the major political parties (eg. the ones with the money) would be fucked.

What do you guys think? Should I reply to the lovely government, or should I just ignore their dictatorial stance on the matter?

festergrump

January 28th, 2007, 08:12 AM

They want me to register to vote. [SNIP] What do you guys think? Should I reply to the lovely government, or should I just ignore their dictatorial stance on the matter?

I am of the opinion that the term VOTE is a farce, a fallasy, at best. It implies there is an actual ELECTION governed by a "voting process" controlled by the citizens.

A term more proper for the "election" procedure would be... (drum roll, please)...

GRAND UNVEILING...

They've already decided upon the next leader before any ballots are even cast, my friend. :(

Every time the idea of casting a ballot crosses your mind, cast a bullet, instead. It'll be more fruitful.

ShadowMyGeekSpace

January 28th, 2007, 01:42 PM

The popular vote doesn't even matter, atleast in America. The electoral college decides who paid them more money/will scratch their back more, and then they get into office.

defiant

January 28th, 2007, 09:30 PM

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2791/akpg30km2.jpg

Second;

NBK: Thanks for the google link - it was a late night search and I lacked patience to sift through the results. The imagery isn't all that good though. I'll see if installing the program improves matters and (if it does) post a pic.

Alexires: Don't register - takes time away from collecting militaria.

festergrump & ShadowMyGeekSpace: You guys are seriously jaded. All you have to do to change policy is request an audience with those in power (just ask any lobbyists).

Then again, when I voted in the last election, they required my signature on a signup sheet, after which I was given another piece of paper to hand to give to the guy who sets up the machine, and there was a third piece of paper involved in the process (I forget what it was for).

But no receipt for the vote itself - so there's no paper record of which Skull & Bone's multimillionaire I voted for. :eek:

Did I mention I purchased a launcher the other day?

festergrump

January 29th, 2007, 09:00 AM

What do you guys think?
festergrump & ShadowMyGeekSpace: You guys are seriously jaded. All you have to do to change policy is request an audience with those in power (just ask any lobbyists).

I was merely stating my opinion since it was asked of everyone.

Requesting an audience, getting your chance to speak your mind to an "elected official", and actually changing their views or actions are three very seperate things. There's really no point in arguing about it, as opinions will just differ without any proof.

On elections, or more specifically electronic voting machines, the paper trail (or lack of) often refered to is meaning the actual cast vote, not a receipt stating you used the machine. If there's no physical ballot to hold and count, then numbers can be changed to the whim of anyone who has the wherewithall to access the digital output of the machines, no?

I am very used to being thought of as a skeptic, a cynic, an anti-social, a pessimist, a rabble-rouser, asshole, ect. Nothing new to me and no offense taken, though I am precisely the way I am because of what I have lived through and experienced firsthand. As a result of my personal experiences my trust is always earned and not given freely. No politician has ever earned any trust from me, but instead have instilled in me an inherent dis-trust, just on the principle of their previous agendas.

I don't think ShadowMyGeekSpace or I are jaded. Our experiences just may have differed from yours over the years...

Vote if you feel it will do any good. Maybe it will make you feel like you've participated somehow, if nothing else.

On a complete aside, nice launcher you've got there. Hell, nice '74, too! ;) The pic is yours or just presented for illustration of launcher you bought?

Alexires

January 30th, 2007, 07:12 AM

Now you see, thats what I want lying next to my bed. Oh yeah, sorry, thats right, I live in Australia. I really need to move to Canada or the US so I can get shit like that. Nice one defiant.

I agree with you festergrump, I think its all bullshit. I wouldn't vote or consider it if it wasnt for the fine, which I am more worried about than the whole "needing to vote to justify my bitching later" idea.

newcastle

January 31st, 2007, 06:10 PM

They say the 16th amendment was never ratified by the required majority of states, thus null and void. Which, if true, it is null and void.

And if it is voluntary, then why are they going after this guy for not volunteering? If it's mandatory that you volunteer, it's not really voluntary, now is it? ;)

I have heard that taxes were implied as "your patriotic duty to pay taxes to fund the government to help win the war"(ww2)

it starts voluntarily but then you commit yourself to it in the long run by the following way

this is just a snip it from:
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/final_warning/federal_income_tax.htm

please visit the page and see for your self

"Because we live in a Republic, the Internal Revenue Service Code, Title 26 USC, could not be passed into law by the Congress, and instead, was passed only as a Resolution, which is a formal expression of intent that was to pertain only to citizens of the District. So, how do they make you a citizen of the District? In the upper left-hand corner of the 1040 Federal Income Tax form is a place to put your preprinted address label, which is designated with the words “label here.” However, to the left of that is the word “label,” which seemingly identifies the entire section as a whole. However, the word “label” actually has another legal meaning that has nothing to do with your name and address. According to Black’s Law Dictionary, “label” is defined as: “A slip of ribbon, parchment, or paper, attached as a codicil to a deed or other writing to hold the appended seal.” Since your “seal” is your signature, the “label” is actually a codicil which indicates you are waiving your constitutional right as a sovereign state citizen to become a citizen of the District and its Federal Area."

this site also tells weather or not your state has the league right to tax your income.(if the paper work was verbatim,ect.)

So again please recherch this for your self I have found a great search engine it works off of google but, 1. it hides you behind a proxie (search records kept "only 2 days") and 2. it strips away the adds trying to sell you anything.

http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm

I hope i have not overstepped my boundary's by this beaning my first day on the forum and making a post. if so can someone point me in a direction to the rules so i can prevent myself from beaning banned

defiant

February 1st, 2007, 03:45 AM

[N]ewcastle: Good post.

festergrump: If you are done ranting - I was being facetious about you and Alexires being jaded. Only a fool isn't jaded, and the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting or target practice. This nation was founded by a bunch of jaded guys who reasoned that distrust of government was the rational approach, and I agree. There are still good people in government, but they'd lose their job if they bucked the status quo and know it. The problem is the powerful assholes rise to the top, and the shit flows downhill from there, with everyone kept in line through the paycheck and fear of retaliation.

With regards to the AK/launcher photo - its a 40mm GP-30 underbarrel grenade launcher. They're made for the AKM, AK-74, AKMS, AKS-74, AK-74M, AK101 & AK103. A 40mm launcher has the same sort of legal restrictions as full autos and silencers - so no, that launcher...

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/3636/40mmgp30underbarrelgrenqb3.gif

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9057/40mmgp30grenadelaunchermo2.png

...is still on my wish list. I'll post information on what I got and related research under a more appropriate topic heading (as time allows) - don't want to hijack this thread off Ed Brown.

So getting back on topic, let me ask you all this: Ed Brown feels now is the time to make a stand, and calls for people to come to his house - both peacefully with cameras to document events and also those bearing arms. Do you think the time is ripe or premature for a head on confrontation with the fed gov, and if not, when do you think the time will be ripe?

Alexires

February 1st, 2007, 06:39 AM

Personally, I think the time is right now. Someone has had the balls to stand up and say "this is fucked", and actually has a vaguely legit reason for saying so. The longer we wait, the less freedom we have and the less we will be able to do in the end.

Compare the world today with that of 200 years ago, 100 years ago, 50, 25, 10. See a trend? The majority are being lulled into a sense of security. 1984 and all that.

Now is the time.

Ofcourse, this is all hypothetical and I would never advocate something as base as......revolution.

knowledgehungry

February 1st, 2007, 10:23 AM

I say that the time is not ripe. Wait and see what happens after Hillary gets elected in '08 then the world may become a different place...

As for what it would take for me to participate in a violent revolution I am not sure, I think it would have to be something fairly drastic however, maybe government requirement for RFID's to be implanted in citizens or some such. I am not for revolution in general unless it will save more lives in the long run than it will take, call me a tree hugging sheeple I don't care.

Alexires

February 1st, 2007, 07:27 PM

While I agree the world may be a different place for America, nothing is going to change here. It's Australia. The major political parties only have superficial differences in policy. Bother labor and liberal are all for taking away freedoms and enslaving the sheeple.

I say go for it, because after this they may not be a chance again. Maybe there will, but this looks like a good opportunity.

knowledgehungry, remember the thread "When the crackdown comes"? It won't be one act. It will be the gradual removal of freedom that is the crackdown.

Unless you set yourself an act that occurs, such as the implementation of RFID in citizens or national ID cards you may be one of those that says "Maybe things will change next year, maybe things will change next president, maybe things will change next decade..."

I think that point for me will the RFID in national ID cards, and where NOT carrying your ID is a crime.

It's the question knowledgehungry, would killing Hitler have saved more lives in the long run? Maybe, maybe not.

I think that there is no point in asking yourself "will this save lives?". Ofcourse, if it is obviously one way or another then that's a different matter, but if you cannot be fairly certain one way or another, you should do what you feel is right.

knowledgehungry

February 1st, 2007, 11:48 PM

My insinuation was that if Hillary wins the U.S. will not be better but far far worse. The two biggest people I fear as President are her and Giuliani, Giuliani is anti-gun, "anti-terror" which means pro-police state, hell look at how he ran New York. While it may work for a city it is not the way to run a country.

You guys in Australia nd the UK are LONG overdue for some sort of show of indignation with your rights being stripped from you. Here in America I still have faith in some of our politicians, although the number is rapidly dwindling.

As to the slow erosion of rights you are talking about, whatever new laws they make that take away my rights I will ignore, maybe one day that will put me in a confrontation with the government, hopefully not. There currently are no laws that I feel strongly about ignoring except of course law as it relates to this hobby, which has many gray areas where the state says one thing Feds say another etc. I don't really even experiment anymore anyway however :(.

defiant

February 3rd, 2007, 01:42 AM

Almost all of the people I know are terrified to face facts, or simply don't like the displeasure reality ushers in and prefer living life as an ostrich (/sheeple). Consequently I question whether the time is ripe.

I expressed this opinion in an email to Ed Brown, and urged him to, insofar as possible, tie the government up in court (move to disqualify the judge, file a case over denial of substantial due process, etc.) - to gain time and get the word out. Having had sucesses in the legal system, I offered assistance.

Discretion being the better part of valor, I suggested that choosing the time and place for battle is a tactical decision, and that tying things up in court might forestall an invasion and better allow the word to spread. Sentry duty in the summer would also be likely to attract more takers that in the dead of winter.

Its my opinion that at this time and place in history, Brown is of more value as an educator than he is partaking in direct confrontation. Not enough people are awake yet - the time isn't ripe. This was expressed to Brown, along with a couple of personal experiences that we share in common, and enough personal informationion that he could background check me if he was so inclined. I'm already on government watch lists.

A handful of days later I got Ed Brown's reply, which follows in its entirety:

We’ll wake up a lot more.

Thanks.

Ede Brown

festergrump

February 3rd, 2007, 10:37 AM

I expressed this opinion in an email to Ed Brown, and urged him to, insofar as possible, tie the government up in court (move to disqualify the judge, file a case over denial of substantial due process, etc.)

So far as I understand things, the trial is over, so there's nothing left really to tie up the process to his advantage (at least in court).

His choices are to A) stay holed up in his fortress of a home and hope to stay alive or B) surrender and start the process of appeals, which he will do from behind bars.

He IS tying things up quite well, otherwise... but he needs to continue to grab the public's attention again and again as they are already forgetting all about him and his plight. The old 'out of sight, out of mind' pnenomenon is setting in...

defiant

February 3rd, 2007, 01:44 PM

His case is over, but an individual has 20-30 days from the issuance of the order to file a notice of appeal, and 20-30 days after that to file an Initial Brief. Thereafter a motion to stay the lower court's order should be filed.

If the Appellate Court dismisses the case, a claim for denial of substantial due process could be filed. The courts won't consider a due process claim unless an appeal was sought.

I'm not inexperienced in such matters - I've got seven or so tort cases filed against the government and not one has been dismissed or stayed dismissed. I was injured on the job while a government employee - and the government retaliated and tried to intimidate me into foregoing benefits/legal remedy - and in response I sued. When I encountered judicial prejudice, I filed a "Motion to Disqualify" the judge. As long as the Motion to Disqualify is legally sufficient (correct in form) the judge is required to recuse themself from the case.

Generally speaking, disqualification of a judge should be requested 10 days after the prejudicial act or conflict of interest becomes known, but a judge can be disqualified even after the trial is concluded and the order rendered (even years later). Late filing can be countered by arguments of excusable neglect and for justifiable reasons under the Doctrine of Equitable Estoppel. Obviously Brown's trial was very emotional to him, and consequently he may not have filed on time, but this can be remedied.

I've sucessfully used such arguments myself in civil cases, and the procedure is essentially identical in criminal court. My (former) government employer filed some 4criminal cases against me as part of the intimidation harrassment scheme, so I'm speaking from experience. All but one of the criminal charges against me were dropped - the remaining case was shelved (the Court refuses to schedule a trial).

I know, and Brown certainly knows, that the legal system can oftentimes be corrupt. But there are some judges left that deserve the title "Honorable".

My respect for Ed Brown's integrity and willingness to take a stand is immense - but the question remains - "Is the time ripe?"

Do you know of anyone who's going to NH to support Brown? Are you going?

I don't, which signifies to me that the time is probably not ripe (despite there being no law requiring individuals to pay personal income tax).

If my analysis is correct, then nows the time for educating others (and pissing them off as to what's going on) ... and arming ourselves as a last resort against government tyranny.

festergrump

February 3rd, 2007, 04:36 PM

Do you know of anyone who's going to NH to support Brown? Are you going?

No, I do not know personally anyone who is going or who is there, and I am almost sorry to say that I cannot at this time join him, either. There is better we can do, though, read on.

If my analysis is correct, then nows the time for educating others (and pissing them off as to what's going on) ... and arming ourselves as a last resort against government tyranny.

The time for educating others is always (not yesterday, not tommorrow), and the time for arming ourselves has grown increasingly apparent for many years... Yes, I agree with you, though.

What I think needs to be done to boil the pot over is something of an extraordinary nature. The Fedgov realizes this and is now wary of every move, hence... nothing more in the news about Mr. Ed Brown or otherwise, because another Waco WOULD boil such a pot. Very bad for them. THEY don't want to be seen anywhere near the flame, let alone the controls to the "boiler". They must blame it on us so it looks like they are protecting everyone else from the "evil" that hides among us in everyday life. :rolleyes:

"Is the time ripe?"

Instead of being ripe for action, I think it's ripe for the opposite... IN-ACTION.

I think everyone needs to simply do nothing. That's right, nothing. Refuse to pay your 2006 taxes this year. Or simply send them an 8X11 piece of paper with the name ED BROWN on it instead of your tax statement and payment.

How much harder is a mass action than a mass inaction to orchestrate? What do you think will be the reaction of the government if even 1/10 of all American citizens do this?

The first thing they would have done to Ed Brown is cut his "power" (meaning electricity) if they could, but they can't because he is off the grid. :) Want to cast a "vote" they're sure to notice? Cut THEIR "power"... Stop paying them. If that doesn't force the issue and get the ball rolling, nothing will...

nbk2000

February 3rd, 2007, 06:05 PM

If I was working for FedGov, and told to make this whole mess disappear, I'd arrange for Mr. Brown to suicide himself in front of witnesses.

You can bend any man if you find the right lever, and with the resources of FedGov, I'd find that lever. And if there wasn't one to be found, a little slight-of-hand would have to do.

So don't be surprised if they have one of their own NBK's arrange for such an event.

If he was killed, or even just had an 'accident', blame or suspicion would automatically fall upon FedGov. So it has to be a suicide in front of witnesses to forstall any such backlash.

And the government knows that there will always be some number of people resisting them at any one time. That's not an issue for them. The critical issue for them is to ensure that the number never reaches the 'tipping point' - the point at which the number becomes large enough to become a self-sustaining movement.

Kind of like a nuclear chain-reaction...enough neutrons makes the whole thing go BOOM!

So, if over the course of a decade, a million people resist (actively or passively) against FedGov, than 100,000/year is obviously not a tipping point.

If, on the other hand, 250,000 people resisted in a year, that could be the tipping point (criticality, to use the Nuke analogy) that causes the country to implode.

defiant

February 3rd, 2007, 08:00 PM

Refusing to pay taxes en masse is the way to go, but the time isn't even ripe for that. Most everyone I know senses that there is something seriously wrong, but they say, "Lets move to the country. The chaos will be in the cities." Meanwhile they pay their taxes and hope that their scepticism won't be discovered. Hell, most people are scared to simply express a perspective that's contrary to the governments.

Like NBK says, the time won't be ripe until things reach critical mass, and the governments careful not to let things get out of hand in this regard. But those in power become arrogant, and this may very well be their downfall. The law won't touch them, because they are above the law. So there's nothing to counter their greed and arrogance. Eventually they'll go to far, and once again history will repeat itself. Its in the nature of things.

festergrump

February 3rd, 2007, 08:27 PM

If, on the other hand, 250,000 people resisted in a year, that could be the tipping point (criticality, to use the Nuke analogy) that causes the country to implode.

You're right, NBK. My 1/10 of population analogy was a bit lacking. It's not enough. Getting such a number as 250k to retaliate at once would take more than even door to door jackboot searches for contraban items... even any/all firearms when it eventually comes to that.

There are many other things the few may do to impact the outcome, however. Getting off the grid, growing/raising their own food, ultimately being less of a 'consumer', ect. How about everyone pulling every bit of money they have out of the banks? :D But that's a moot point, actually, I think.

Truth is, hardly anyone is going to do any such thing to ever resist the Fedgov in masses (besides the choice few who are going underground right now, and that's only a handful), unless the Fedgov REALLY fucks up bigtime, then people are only going to look to their neighbors to see what they're doing about it... and resume grazing comfortably when nobody does anything. :rolleyes:

I seem silly for even implying masses of US citizens might ever organize to do anything even remotely like not paying their taxes, don't I? WHY? Because those that scoff any public outcry or action are the same whose idea of 'standing up' to anything oppressive is to put their opinions in their signature line on a forum somewhere and hope someone else will do it for them... :p

(BTW, I'm not making a statement against anyone here at RS. I especially like to piss off the types who put MOLON LABE in their sig line at gun forums but strike the 'liberal pose' when anything relevant needs to be addressed).

defiant

February 3rd, 2007, 08:58 PM

The population in the US is around 350 million. For what its worth, 10% of 350 million is 35 million. A fraction of that number running amok would cause an upheaval, and the number is steadily rising.

In the immortal words of Claire Wolfe, "America's at that awkward stage. Its too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." She goes on to say that things will continue to build until the government goes a little too far, and then, one day, things will errupt.

Prouhdon expressed essentially the identical sentiment: Popular uprisings are spontaneous occurences.

Others thinkers hold that popular revolts must be planned and nurtured.

In all likelihood its a combination of the two - popular discontent and instigators.

When the time is ripe it will be apparent, to joe average and instigator alike.

In all likelihood Ed Brown is well aware of all this, but is not adverse to hastening the process.

festergrump

February 3rd, 2007, 09:08 PM

It's somewhere around 300 million, I know. But anyway :o. I am most embarrassed. I have been most distracted this evening while attempting to get my thoughts out... SIGH.

My time is better spent where my distractions originate, else they'll likely crop up again and again spoil my point. Apologies.

Night all.

defiant

February 3rd, 2007, 10:04 PM

Not my intent to embarass.

In fact, I only mentioned numbers to make a point - that subsequently I fogot to express - namely, that an uprising of 1% of the population (with popular support) would be exceedingly difficult for the government to contend with.

nbk2000

February 3rd, 2007, 10:47 PM

It could easily happen that 1% of the population gets uppity, but will it be the same 1%?

See, the United States is becoming racially balkanized, and quite quickly.

Whites, while still a majority (by a slim margin), are rapidly being replaced by hispanics and blacks, and they are not part of 'America'.

The hispanics want 'their' land back (the southwest), and the blacks want whatever they can get from whitey.

I think the first 1% will be the mexicans outright annexing the southwest. Once they do that, the blacks will get uppity too. Then those Whites who aren't sheeple will fight back.

At this point, FedGov will have its hands full trying to keep the country from disintegrating into Civil War II. I don't think they'll be able to swing it though, too much bad blood built up over too many years on all sides.

ultma

February 20th, 2007, 05:49 PM

So whats the go, anyhting happening yet?

defiant

February 20th, 2007, 10:19 PM

About a week ago the presiding judge ordered some law enforcement agency or another to confiscate the Browns' property. Apparently the "authorities" haven't made their move.

One source of information is: http://www.edbrown.org/wordpress/

Reportedly supporters continue to come and go.

New Hampshire motor vehicle license plates contain the quote "Live Free or Die." I'm also told that NH doesn't charge for a firearm carry permit either - and that lots of people there are distrustful of government.

Must be a rogue state run by warlords.

Herro

February 22nd, 2007, 09:44 PM

I actually live a few towns over from Mr. Brown; his story is quite frequently mentioned in our local newspaper.

'http://www.vnews.com/02222007/3813284.htm'

a reporter asked them if they were afraid.

“I am,” Elaine Brown said.

“Of what?” Her husband said.

“He's not,” she said. “I am.”

“I learned a long time ago not to be afraid of bullies,” Ed Brown said.

“They have all the power,” Elaine Brown said.

“No they don't,” her husband said.

“They have unlimited resources.”

“So do we. Everything they've got we've made.”

Amen.

defiant

March 1st, 2007, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the update. Its good news that Ed and Elaine are back together.

But the the article also goes on to say that the house is now devoid of supporters. Not good.

nbk2000

March 1st, 2007, 04:30 PM

FedGov has infiltrated their traitor (the wife) and pulled out their undercover agents who were mantaining the perimeter (supposed 'supporters') so the wet-work boys can do their thing unimpeded.

defiant

March 2nd, 2007, 06:42 PM

Contacted Ed Brown again, this time telling him I'd be glad to come up for a couple of weeks if my presence there would be more of a contribution than interference.

Mr. Brown response follows: "Thanks. We’ll be alright. No matter how they do their thing they will lose.

Arisaka

March 5th, 2007, 04:56 PM

I don't know anything on the U.s. tax laws but if the man is in his rights than everybody has to support him !

I don't think extortion is justified not even by "legal" authorities.

festergrump

March 5th, 2007, 07:29 PM

You can walk right up to a herd animal in most cases, especially if you are known to them (which the government is known to it's populace), and slit it's throat. The neighboring herd animals will generally just move aside to allow you more room and keep grazing, so long as you are not interfering with their own intake of sustenance. This is the mentality of most civilians, hence the term: SHEEPLE. It's out of sight out of mind to them, now. Back to rising fuel prices, which psycho-mom drowned what infant, Britney Spears' hair growing out and which facility she left A.M.A., ect...

The government waited this one out, it seems. I am surprised. Now Mr. Brown is all without any supporters and would be hardpressed to get any more media attention. I'm afraid small arms fire is about the only thing that might make the news from here on out about the Brown case. His 'accidental' demise will surely go unreported by anything but perhaps local news media, I think.

The sun has set on the bunnyrat... and now all the wolves are salivating in the darkness slowly encompassing him.

defiant

March 7th, 2007, 12:58 AM

The institutionalized media may not be covering him, but he's still in the news: http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Brown%20Trial

Apparently the reason that there are no longer supporters there is because Mr. Brown changed his mind and no longer wants supporters present. He graciously declined my offer to join him (as a peaceful observer/unless shot at).

His decision may be intended to limit infiltration and minimize sacrifice personnel or respources.

Some time ago he stated publicly that he couldn’t stop the fed gov from getting him - but that the war was going to start afterwards. Around the same time a local militia leader said that if anything happened to Mr. Brown, the Judge should be killed (or free speech to that affect).

Since that time Brown predicted to me in an email that there will be a major conflict in the US within 18-24 months. Rather than discount his prediction out of hand (which wasn't easy), I inquired as to the basis for for his 18-24 month estimate. His response was, "The envelope is being pushed by many of us, around the world."

It’s a fairly cryptic response, but not surprising given that his emails are probably monitored by the government (as mine are now, most likely). It wouldn't surprise me if Brown's plans and resources were more extensive than I'd imagine. He's been at this for some time, and would logically keep logistics to his inner circle.

Time will tell.

nbk2000

March 7th, 2007, 02:58 PM

I bet he and his wife suicide, either at the hands of Fedgov, or by their own in the hopes of FedGov getting the blame. :)

defiant

March 7th, 2007, 07:46 PM

Perhaps, but I volunteered to join him out of respect for his defiance - not because I'm suicidal.

Which is sort of ironic, because I have no doubt that the American Sheeple have the government they deserve, and aren't worth fighting or dying for.

Go figure.

nbk2000

March 7th, 2007, 10:26 PM

By suicide, I meant that they will literally kill themselves, in the hopes of making it look like FedGov did them in.

defiant

March 7th, 2007, 11:54 PM

What's the basis for your opinion?

nbk2000

March 8th, 2007, 12:39 AM

The same intuition that told me what the DC snipers next victims were going to be is telling me these people are going to end up dead.

An accumulation of FedGov M.O., martyr's complex, and plenty of paranoia. ;)

defiant

March 8th, 2007, 02:16 AM

We all end up dead. That's irrelevant.

I'm not quite sure that I agree with you though about their "paranoia."

I worked for the government, and can assure you that if you are not an insider they have no interest in your welfare whatsoever - nor does abiding by the law mean a fucking thing to them. They may be interested in appearances to some extent, but they're still thieves.

I do agree with you though that Mr. Brown is prepared to die, although I'm not convinced he suffers from a martyr's complex.

He's nearly 70 and the government is "empowered" to take everything he and his wife owns on the basis of a tax law that's either non-existent or that the IRS refuses to cite or explain with specificity. [Check out Aaron Russo's film, "America, From Freedom to Fascism"]

On a personal level it isn't altogether surprising that Mr. Brown would rather die than be imprisoned and live in poverty for the rest of his life, should he survive his prison term.

That doesn't make him a martyr. During his media interviews (and correspondence with me) Mr. Brown hasn't exhibited an exaggerated sense of self agrandizement. Rather, he tends to stay focused on issues that he wants to educate others about - government abuses and the like. I find him to be quite well educated on these issues -and believe most of us here agree that these abuses will get worse with time.

It makes more sense to me for him to go underground and assasinate the judge, the prosecutors, and whoever else offended his sense of fair play - but who am I to judge anyone?

Would you prefer to die in a hospital bed at the mercy of medical technicians who get paid whether you live or die and in all likelihood don't give a fuck either way?

Bugger

March 10th, 2007, 06:11 PM

A very interesting situation. Have there been any further developments in the last few days? I agree with Mr Brown, although he should try to appeal the last Court decision.

Mr Brown is correct in predicting a civil war/whore in the U.S.A. within 18-24 months - I think by next year - which will result in the overthrow of the Federal Government, and which will be forced to occur by a combination of wholesale mutiny of the top brass of the military which may result in a coup d'état, armed militias no longer prepared to accept the restraints on peoples' freedoms since 911 (which Bu$h deliberately allowed to happen, after knowing about it in advance and suppressing attempts by FBI and CIA operatives to follow up suspicious activities pointing to it, as an excuse for curtailing civil liberties and for politically-biased domestic surveillance), and a desperate mob of homeless and unemployed. This is unless there is some sort of extraterrestrial intervention, which would in any case result in the removal of the present Federal Government, and indeed all governments world-wide, by "force majeure" - which I have reason to believe is a strong possibility, and very soon.

knowledgehungry

March 10th, 2007, 11:16 PM

Bugger: Let me get this straight, you believe that alens are going to take over the world? If you have a reason to believe that this is a strong possibility please enlighten us.

As to a civil war in the U.S., it is not going to happen soon. There may be uprisings/rebellions but the large majority of Americans are far too complacent for any large scale conflict.

defiant

March 11th, 2007, 01:48 AM

People are definitely too complacent, and the 18-24 month estimate may very well be premature. But who knows.

Complacency doesn't mean people aren't getting informed at a rate unheard of prior to the internet, and disillusionment is spreading even among the complacent. Its also spreading among the military, including generals and soldiers who swore an oath to uphold the US Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic. Militias are more active too, and it would probably be a mistake to presume that they're without military connections.

Can't speak for Bugger on extraterrestrials.

But I can report on Ed Brown. Heard back from him today, and he reports that he and Elaine are doing well and not wanting for anything. He invited me up for a couple of days and I look forward to the visit.

It also appears that Mr. Brown is correct about there being no law requiring an individual to pay income tax. No one in their right mind wants to read the tax code, so check out http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2208477968446177859&q=Irwin+Schiff%27s+Secrets+of+Living+an+Income+Tax-Free+Life&hl=en ("Irwin Schiff's Secrets of Living an Income Tax-Free Life"). It gets more into the nitty gritty than Russo's "America - From Freedom To Fascism" - but is well done, entertaining, and enlightening.

Bugger

March 11th, 2007, 05:37 AM

Knowledgehungry, I did not mention "aliens" in my last post, nor their "taking over"!.

However, when it finally sees no other way out of its mess (other than to do the decent thing by resigning and confessing their crimes), from my information it is very likely that the U.S. Government, in collusion with other like-minded cabal-dominated governments such as those presently in the U.K., Canada, Mexico, Germany, Australia, Japan, and France, and financed by a secret international banking cartel, will FAKE an alien invasion, using hitherto secret propulsion and weapons technology (remember the news items a few months ago about what "UFO hacker" Gary McKinnon in London discovered on NASA and CIA and DOD computers?), and use this as an excuse to introduce a global police state and military junta, and tear up what remains of the U.S. Constitution and world-wide Bills Of Rights.

Just as with 9/11, propaganda would be concocted and spread, and lies would be told about what really happened to people world-wide, and to governments of other (mostly left-leaning and "independent") countries, to induce them to kow-tow to this junta.

If anything is likely to provoke "extraterrestrial intervention" of any sort, this would be it, because of the "secret" technology involved (and from where some of it probably came - crashed UFOs), and because the real aliens would want to "preserve their good name" so to speak. Not even Bu$h igniting the Middle East powderkeg and starting World War/Whore 3 by attacking Iran and Syria, and dragging in NATO and Israel, would be sufficient to bring about extraterrestrial intervention.

If this would be sufficient to attract extraterrestrial intervention, it would have happened over 60 years ago in W.W.2 due to Hitler's push for world dominance - about which aliens did precisely nothing even at the time of the atom bombings in Japan in August 1945, except possibly watch with great interest (especially in mid-1945) judging by the "foo-fighter" reports from military pilots during W.W.2.

Complacency? No-one remains "complacent" when they see that their basic well-being, security, and freedoms are in jeopardy, no matter how dumbed-down the U.S. education system (and that world-wide to a lesser extent) has become, no matter how controlled by a cabal of the U.S. Government and its supporting wealthy clique the major news media have become, and no matter how successful the Republican-owned cartel that runs electronic voting machines in the U.S.A. (which no other country has, as far as I know, because of the possibility of fraud) is in rigging elections by switching votes and dissuading people unlikely to vote Republican from enrolling or voting.

festergrump

March 11th, 2007, 08:04 AM

Bugger, I think if you had used the term "alien" instead of "extra terrestrial" he might have better gotten your meaning... Terrestrial generally means belonging to the planet Earth. hehe (maybe an ET presence would be better in the long run, who knows?).

Defiant, that's great that you're going to visit Ed and wife. Be sure to fill us in after your visit. I'm really interested in his welfare and would like to see him pull out of this one ahead. Either way his life will have been somewhat of a win/win. He'll either be martyred ("Wacoed") or possibly be a steppingstone towards a better America. Hopefully the latter, for his sake and all of ours.

I'm filled with newfound hope for his cause, for some reason, and right now have lost my usual pessimism (it'll soon pass :p).

knowledgehungry

March 11th, 2007, 12:40 PM

If you believe that there is a shadow government Bugger, you cannot logically believe that in the US it is only the Republicans who are a part of it. You seem to say that the Republicans will win again because of rigging/intimidation. I highly doubt that they will win, but if there was a shadow government it would make no difference, as the Democrats would have to be part of it too. The Democrats take away gun rights for 4 years, the next 4 years the Republicans work against privacy. Neither side restores what the other side has taken, although they make big talk about it in the elections.

I personally don't believe in the shadow government thing, what I do believe is that 90% of politicians want power above anything else, and this makes them dangerous. I do not want the Democrats to win, as I fear them more than Republicans and the idea of a female president just does not sit well with me. If they aren't interested in explosvies they shouldn't be interested in government :p

Defiant: Good luck on your trip, hopefully it doesn't hit the fan while you are up there. It will be nice to have some real first hand info about the situation.

defiant

March 11th, 2007, 10:36 PM

Both democrats and republicans are playing the "good cop bad cop" game.

There may be and probably are trustworthy individuals within the parties, but trusting a party is utter folly. The fact is that both parties are corrupt mafias - and we all know it. But we're given the choice of which party is "better" and we choose within these parameters. The option itself is FUCKED!

[festergrump/knowledgehungry: Thanks.]

Herro

March 22nd, 2007, 11:36 PM

Mr. Brown was recently taken out of his home due to a medical emergency; he tried to OD on morphine. The pigs/fedgov still haven't taken any action even though he's out.

DMSOnMyVeins

March 23rd, 2007, 12:12 AM

Mr. Brown was recently taken out of his home due to a medical emergency; he tried to OD on morphine. The pigs/fedgov still haven't taken any action even though he's out.

Rumors, Rumors, tsk tsk........:rolleyes:

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070322/REPOSITORY/703220350

It wasn't Ed Brown that overdosed, it was a friend that Ed and Elaine Brown knew that has cancer and is prescribed morphine for pain.

The link above from the Concord Monitor shows the facts and not the rumors...:rolleyes:

saltyChickinwing

March 25th, 2007, 02:06 AM

DMSOnMyVeins Thanks for clearing that up Because I was in the middle of Reply to Herro's post and it would of sounded Really Stupid if I didn't read your post in the middle of typing I also have a question
How many people are in the house And how much money doe's he owe the gov?

Herro

March 25th, 2007, 04:02 PM

Sorry, s'what my newspaper said. Wasn't aware it was merely a rumour

chemdude1999

March 25th, 2007, 09:17 PM

It's important to use multiple and diverse media sources to get at least a half-way accurate picture of the truth. And then, if it is important to you, investigate it further.

Small local newspapers are usually good sources, because they don't have a vested interest in big issues (unless locally and politically useful). However, simple and honest mistakes can skew an article tremendously.

Sorry, back on topic now.

DMSOnMyVeins

March 26th, 2007, 01:05 AM

Sorry, s'what my newspaper said. Wasn't aware it was merely a rumour

I apologize for sounding like a jerk Herro.

The reason why I made that post sound so harsh is because someone replied to your post and assumed that what you said was factual. That could have made both of you seem kind of stupid.

I know how it is in small towns. I tried to leave Florida for small town's in the northeast to midwest, only to find that people have nothing better to do than talk about other people and make up rumor's about other people, 99% of the stuff small town people talk about other people is false.

Again, I apologize Herro, The person who replied to your message was able to delete their post, so everything is OK.

defiant

March 28th, 2007, 03:31 AM

That's an interesting article, not that local reporting is to be trusted. Reading between the lines is as important as anythng.

Thus while the article portrays Brown as a criminal, the view ultimately expressed is typified by the comment by US Marshal Stephen Monier:

They handled it, and they did a terrific job," ... "They're aware there's a warrant, but it's up to a law enforcement officer on the scene to make an assessment of the facts and circumstances on the ground.

Nor does this policy appear to be recently implemented, as the article reports:

Gillens and state troopers came to the road as backup but did not enter the property. Gillens said that the police didn't take any special precautions and took Brown at his word that he wanted help from authorities.

It is not the first time that the Plainfield police have been at the house in recent weeks. In January, Brown asked them to remove a Fox News crew from the property.

Apparently local law enforcement is disregarding the judges order to arrest Brown.